stuart: if you do get copyright protection you have to defend it. any challenge comes your way you have to defend it. >> feels strongly about it. stuart: we have a nice little rally, see what neil cavuto can do. it is yours, sir. neil: thank you, stuart, thank you very much. federal reserve two-day meeting kicks off today, what could happen tomorrow. even though donald trump doesn't think it's a good idea, the likes of some of the world's best money managers like stanley drunkenmiller and what have you, even "wall street journal" warns that a fed hike in this environment would be a bad idea. but again the expectation is that it will tighten interest rates and bring the overnight bank lending rate to 2.5%. 2.25 to 2 1/2% range which is darn close to what a 10-year note is fetching. that crunching if you will among all the key treasury notes and bonds, yields, generally tends to presage a slowdown, minimum,

recession at the worst. way too soon to tell. let's get the read from "dow jones newswires" editor glen hall. expectation is we see a hike. i wonder if we don't see a hike, the president act sets to president's president wishes, that would be more after panic, you think. >> if the fed is too concerned about the direction of the economy to actually raise rates at this point in any event people are hoping to see some doveishness from the fed, maybe only in the commentary, not the move on the interest rates. neil: tomorrow we get that commentary and that decision. if the expectation is right we do see a hike what we wait for a signal the federal reserve is sending maybe the aggressive rate hike path slow as bit. is that what you're betting on as well? >> they're looking for some signals if powell's language, fed chair jerome powell, what he

sees going forward in the pace of rates moving ahead. what they will be looking for is anything that signals there is some dovishness ahead for the fed and the rates woken continue to increase at the pace that was previously projected. neil: what is your sense how much the markets are weighing on this? i think this path was preordained. all of sudden the market started going crazy. people started talking bear market. more than half of the s&p 500 stocks more than 10% off their highs. everybody changed after that. they say they don't follow the stock market but they do. >> stock markets are in a very jittery phase right now. anything at all that signals a challenge for the economy ahead or a challenge for the policies, tariff questions, the battles with china, what's going on the hill right now with the post funding all of these things on top of the fed create a moment of questioning whether momentum we have is gone for good and

whether a downturn is coming. let's be clear, people are talking about economically speaking a slowdown and a bull cycle. not a recession at this point. neil: what is fascinating about the whole debate, we moved whether we get a china trade deal or not, whether china is able to make food on it, buy stuff from us if we do. the slowdown is paramount, all of sudden the trade issue itself i wouldn't say it disappeared but not as important? >> we saw the negative signals out of china. its own economy is struggling right now to maintain growth and so what does that mean for the u.s. economy? where is the european economy headed? those are big questions still but largely speaking for the domestic markets it is the domestic economy that is at play right now, neil. neil: glenn, you're not editorial guy but you're a news guy, your paper editorializing this is not the time to hike rates and fed has to be very

cognizant of that. is there any thinking that the fed is botching this, oddly enough the fed is right to point the finger at them as he did again today? >> what you see are concerns. we're already seeing interest sensitive companies, lenders for autos and lenders for homes all of that are starting to flag some warning signals. we're seeing weakness in those areas. some are thinking the need to continue to raise rates is abating at this point. recessionary risks are not that strong. as we said or spoke about neil, any signal about the weakness greater than expected and fed more worried than making a move on rate would be a negative signal. they're caught in between two tough choices. neil: glen, thank you very much. if we don't chat again my friend, have a merry christmas and wonderful holiday. >> happy new year to you. neil: ron paul, former congressman, presidential candidate, told me yesterday

that whatever is going on a bubble is brewing and what happens could be severe. what are your fears, congressman? >> i'm afraid the predictable dilemma in the market, bursting of the bubble in the financial market, subsequent downturn in the economy is very, very serious. it is barely starting. it is absolutely necessary pause if you prolong it like we have been doing, we just keep feeding it, even in the last recession, we knew there needed to be a big correction. but it was held off for a while by the qes that made the bubble that much bigger. neil: ron paul referring to the qes so-called quantitative easing where federal reserve bought up any note or bond in sight to keep interest rates low, actually 0% low. we since climbed up to 2.25% range on overnight bank money. likely, likely i say, that seems to be the betting, it will inch up to more 2 1/2% range come

tomorrow. if mr. paul is right, congressman and presidential candidate it is too little too late, the bubble is about to burst. reads from market watchers dan shaffer and keith fitz-gerald. dan, that has been kind of among your bearish premises right? no yes, i've been saying this all along, neil that they have just been postponing the inevitable the raising of the rates right now is the same thing that the federal reserve did in 1937. very interesting the correlation of the stock market from 1934 to 1939 is 95% correlated from 2014 to where we are now. i was on it about a month ago and i expected a major decline. it is not over yet. but the federal reserve just should be abolished. ron paul written books about it, getting rid of the fed. controlling interest rates is very dangerous. what they did in 2009, 10 and 11 was very dangerous. companies should have gone bankrupt. prices should find their own price levels instead of federal reserve jumping in.

it is not just the united states federal reserve. the japanese central bank purchased stocks openly on their stock market. it is out of control. it will be a very bad ending. neil, i hate to say it, i've been saying a while, it will be worse than the 1930s, they're repeating it. they added qe which they didn't do in the '30s. neil: the bullish contrarian argument to that, keith fitz-gerald, is that companies are not as devil-may-care. there are some low credit quality that have taken on debt but not some of the big ones. and a lot of companies with the maybe wind at their back with the tax cut and everything else is plowing back into their shares but not doing kind of risky stuff would normally warrant the reaction he just referred to. what do you think? >> i think that is a very fair statement. the problem is, you have to separate simmic risk which is what ron paul an my colleague are talking about, i felt like i was listening to myself talk. the fed is out of control. has been for a long time.

ron paul is normally on the fringes of economic thinking but in this case i think he is spot on. this has the potential to be terrible. i hope ceo's have been adjusting that risk accordingly. neil: what if they haven't, though, keith? to dan's point will there be hell to pay here? is this more than a correction but part of a bear sustained market? >> i'm not smart enough to figure that out, neil. what i do know there is a huge amount of leverage in the system. that is the danger here. my own feeling about the fed they should have been out of business. should have hung up a sign on their door, we were wrong and shut it. the danger they're raising rates, damn the torpedoes. it gets me nervous we don't get dovish commentary that they know something they're not letting on to. neil: what would make you think, dan, before you would have to see maybe potentially pivot? >> neil, i've been asked that

many times. i've studied thousands of years of economic cycle, this particular cycle is a perfect storm. right now whether the fed raises rates i don't think it i don't think it will change. whether they lower rates i don't think it is going to change. the reason is, latest point i saw this morning record highest level of global debt. that debt has to be serviced. now if we're, at 2 1/2% or 2% on short-term rates and 10-year at 2.85. this debt is still out there. if they raise rates i don't know where they will get the money. if they lower rates, at least give as chance for the debt to get through the system the but in the long run, i think the governments are going to tax us to cover their debt. i think corporations are going to, profits are going to be cut. they will stop expanding. stop buying back their stocks by the way. that was a law that was changed in 1982 where they could. it used to be lyle for

corporations to buy back their stocks. what happened in the current cycle the companies are borrowing at such a low rate, buying back their own stock, when they should have been taking the money putting it back into the economy and they just didn't do that if i connect the dots, i don't see anything here. when the fed speaks tomorrow, and they start talking about this area is soft this area is good, it still doesn't matter the debt still has to get paid off. student loans, auto loans. home mortgages. i just don't know where, where this money is going to come from. which leads me to the depression scenario. when people start selling assets, which we're now seeing in the equity market, we'll spill over into the real estate market. we'll spill over into the corporate market. then prices will start to really go down. that's when you get deflationary depression cycle, four quarters of negative gdp. neil: forget about recession? you're looking for depression? >> it is inevitable --

neil: many question whether it is inevitable. keith i want to get your thoughts on that premise here. could you argue that the bubbles that you know, he is looking at, are nothing like they were a decade ago. and so whatever would burst it wouldn't be nearly as severe. you say? >> well i think it's a very fair statement. here is where i come down on that. we have a remarkable capacity for financial engineering, right, wrong, good, bad, indifferent. it doesn't matter. the fact of the matter we do have very sophisticated financial instruments at our disposal today. whether the fed should be messing with them or corporations should be messing with them is a different equation. that is the world we live in. i have on the optimistic side the belief wall street will figure this out, how far it goes from recession to depression, i'm not smart enough to figure that stuff out. what i am confident in there is a path through this. neil: we'll watch very closely. gentlemen, i appreciate your distinct views on all of this. we are following a couple things here. still waiting for the sentencing

former national security advisor michael flynn. the judge unloaded on him he was a traitor to his country. the actual decision on sentencing could be some time off. keeping eye on the possibility of a government shut down by the end of the week. all the unknowns variables wall street chews on and debates. the dow better than 300 points, on the belief the federal reserve will be one more and done for quite a while. we shall see. you're watching fox business. ♪ there's no place like home ♪

argh! i'm trying... ♪ yippiekiyay. ♪ mom. ♪

neil: all right. we're up about 295 points on the dow here. j&j boeing, maybe even united health might have set the stage for this by announcing big stock buybacks. close to $10 billion worth of stock. that is providing a nice floor to the market as it tries to claw its way back to respectability. tech stocks like amazon, facebook, are turning things around. with a rate hike expected tomorrow but that might be the loose for a while. so we'll have to see what happens. there are a lot of unknowns that could sort of put a lid on these gains. the possibility of a government

shutdown, for example. sarah sanders was sort of dismissing that talk but certainly saying in the meantime ahead of what is expected to be a white house briefly a little more than an hour from now, that it, the president thinks this wall is that important. the $5 billion of fund something that important. blake burman from the white house with the latest. hi, there, blake. reporter: folks on capitol hill say there is flury of activity as it relates to potential ongoing negotiations where things go from here. the president over here at the white house still wants $5 billion of funding for the border wall and border security. last we know democrats are willing to offer 1.6 billion for border security only as they see it. about 1/3 of the amount and kind of different definitions there. press secretary sarah sanders a little while ago in an interview on fox seemed to crack the door open a little bit, president trump might come off the $5 billion number, if they could

potentially make up for it in other ways. listen here. >> we have other ways that we can get to that five billion that we will work with congress if they will make sure that we get a bill passed. we've been very clear with members of both republicans and democrats. the house and the senate on what we want to see and we want them to work with us. at the end of the day we don't want to shut down the government. we want to shut down the border. reporter: one thing the white house and president is looking into, whether or not money from the defense department, money from military construction could be used to build the border wall? sanders suggesting that legally they could do that. >> there are certainly a number of different funding sources that we've identified we can use, we can couple with money that would be given through congressional appropriations that would help us get to the five billion that the president

needs in order to protect our borders. reporter: so the politicians down here on planet either in washington, d.c., try to hash out where things go from here as the government shutdown looms over the weekend. but up in outer space, news as well, down in florida, vice president mike pence today unveiled as it relates to the space operations there is going to be a single unified command, the space command. the vice president saying that will develop space doctrines, tactics, techniques, procedures that will enable our warfighters, quote to defend our nation in this new era. a host of headlines. didn't even get into bump stocks as that rule was unveiled by the administration. we'll potentially get into all this with sarah. neil: risking taking on the nra with a ban on bump stocks, very easy to turn any weaponry to automatic weapons. interesting stuff. i look for your questions at the

briefing a little more than an hour from now. get the read on the shutdown, will we not shut down. "axios" reporter is back. >> thanks for having me. neil: what are the odds right now? they seem to be miles apart. they're hoping to bridge this by the white house respect, take military, appropriated fund, shift them into this, i don't know if that is just easier said than done but what are you hearing? >> hearing from sarah sanders certainly was a softening of the white house's stance on this. just last week the president said he was proud to shut down the government over the border wall. this is something he definitely wants. even hearing from sanders they're not backing down on getting the $5 billion for a border wall. we'll see them continue to push that issue. but it seems to open the door for potentially punting this next year. looking likely nancy pelosi in control of house at that point that would open up a host of other issues when it comes to this issue.

we're still seeing a lost arguments right now. a lot of people are confused what the president really wants. lawmakers are trying it figure out what they can get away with at this point. there is a lot of argument to go on till friday. neil: i don't know whether a sign of the times, steph, we're sadly used to this sort of thing. a shutdown, even partial one, third of this presidency, 10th of this year of varying time lengths, what have you, that is why it doesn't whipsaw people like it used to. this one would be a partial if it came to pass. impact would not be as broad as the government shutdown under newt gingrich with bill clinton. what are you looking at here? >> this shutdown would impact a quarter of the government if it does shut down on friday and i think one of the key issues the republicans have at least as of last week the president kind of took ownership of this shutdown which eliminates any possibility of republicans, blaming this on democrats. that kind of messed up some of

their lines of argument when it comes to looking at shutdowns. these are increasingly common at least in this administration. whether or not this will actually go through is still in question. throughout the years there has been speculation, oh, will the government shut down? they haven't happened as regularly there have been talks about the potential of there being a shutdown. neil: all right. we'll watch very, very closely. steph kite thank you very much. these are unknowns whipsawing markets. what the federal reserve will do when interest rates are decided yea or nay tomorrow. what the government will do if it looks like we're looking at a partial government shutdown on friday. then the fate of one michael flynn, president's former top national security advisor. he has been scolded before a court audience where the judge said essentially you have acted as an unregistered foreign agent while serving the united states of america. not good. where does all this go? what kind of sentencing if any

will we be looking at for a former advisor to the president of the united states? we'll know shortly. they said that about a half hour ago didn't they? we will have more after this. k and you won't want to stop for anything else. [ barks ] ho! lease the c 300 sport sedan for $399 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.

neil: all right. we're still waiting for the michael flynn sentencing. he already told the judge i lied. he already told the judge he is fully aware of circumstances of him being there before the judge. the judge was saying, acting as a foreign agent for the united states. that is not food. whether that could tip his hand when the mueller folks were recommending no prison time, if very little. most they could look at here is about six months in jail. that's the most. he might just be looking at community service. too soon to tell. they're in recess for another few minutes. then this all resumes. it has gotten a little complicated. charlie gasparino is here. all those outside uncertainties,

right? >> this is less of an uncertainty in the sense we kind of know, his cooperation has produced whatever it's produced and we know it. i think the bigger stuff is cohn, michael cohn and what he knows -- cohen and other people in that orbit that could potentially shed some light on russian collusion. neil: we should step back. markets abhor constitutional crisis or even a potential one. they didn't like it when it was happening with bill clinton. it is not a democrat, republican thing. it adds a lot of uncertainty here. and for these markets, say what you will of donald trump. he has been very good for them. they don't want it disrupted? >> some of it has been good and some of it hasn't been so good. the trade stuff, a lot of investors are worried about all this right now. they throw in trade, stuff about changing administration, slowdown in the global economy.

neil: federal reserve overdoing it. you, the gaspo trade. >> bringing all this every day, every minute of the day tweeting. neil: like you almost enjoy it. >> i enjoy it. i'm dr. evil. where shall i begin? neil: what are the other factors? they had no idea where this is going to end, right? >> yeah i was out with a bunch of fairly sophisticated traders. they have a lot of money in the markets. one broker who deals with purely high net worth, billionaires -- neil: gasparino crowd. >> definitely not me. if you knew the names it is not me. the sentiment, the market is up 300 points, the sentiment is pretty negative right now for all those reasons. so you you know, you don't need that much when you have negative sentiment when the herd, george soros writes about herd mentalities, when the herd goes a certain way you don't need a

lot of negative sentiment to push it further. one of those things is the shoe to drop on mueller directly relates to trump. the other thing, we don't have a trade deal with china. we're at each other's throats. neil: right. >> some evidence that the economy is slowing down. the corporate earnings, that the corporate tax cut is already baked in. it is not coming in the future. we'll not get much bang for the buck going forward. neil: half full, glass version of that, is that the federal reserve is less inclined to -- >> by the way, corporate earnings because it is such a massive tax cut could increase next year. >> right. >> that is the two sides of the right now the negatives are still winning out, not the positives. neil: let me switch to les moonves, not getting a penny of that 120 million-dollar severance package. >> i told you. neil: what is likely to happen now? >> he is likely to sue. two things will come out of this, or three things. one, will his number two, joe ianniello, a guy i know, pretty

smart, has a food relationship with shari redstone with the controlling redstone family, will he become the permanent ceo any hear he has a good shot. not a done deal. it is the board's decision. by the way he hasn't been tainted with any of this, he was les's number two. no allegations against him. that is one. number two, do they release the findings of probe? there is language in the separation between les and cbs they can. the third thing, will les sue, take it to arbitration. another big question mark. i would tell you they would try to deny it. how do you try to deny isn't you have to show something that he did wrong contemporaneous to his current contract. a lot of these alleged sexual indid i corrections occurred many prior contracts, actually before he was married to julie chen. we're talking maybe over a

decade ago wrong. what they showed currently wrong which he denies he lied to the investigators. he can take them to court and fight for that money saying it wasn't a lie. they can hash it out in arbitration. theoretically he could get money. i can tell you this, the board thought this was the best way to handle it, find something to deny him. if they have to give him money, let the arbitrator force their hand the optics -- neil: resolved of any responsibility. >> the board says we said no. it is not on our conscience. neil: i can't imagine him not getting something? >> i don't know. i mean, you know, would you think -- neil: yeah. >> remember lying to the investigators is on just shunnable fact but he is saying he is not. he says this is miscommunications, misunderstanding they were looking for stuff and i can clearly tell you they wanted to find something. you know, like the irs. if the irs wants to audit anybody, right, they are going to find something. you can find something

somewhere. it is, that is kind of where they were with this. like they were looking for something. and -- neil: apparently they didn't have to look hard? >> well they found misstatements. they didn't find contemporaneous like, alleged indiscretions that were contemporaneous to his current contract. neil: okay. got you. thank you very, very much, my friend. we're following the michael flynn situation. the judge is making it clear, now that they resumed presumably the sentencing hearing that he is not bound by anything. judge sullivan noting i cannot assure you the way you proceed today you won't be incarcerated. going on to say, that, could he have been charged with treason? the prosecution saying i'm hesitant to answer because it is such a seriousness question. the judge responding to that. clarified recommendation for sentencing. the prosecution then going on to say, the government's recommendation that a sentence of the low end of the guideline range, could include a timeline of no incarceration.

the judge nodding saying circumstances surrounding the fbi questioning. i will make a decision shortly after 12:30. that was a few minutes ago. we'll have more after this.

neil: all right in the middle of everything else you see oil prices slip-sliding away here, multiyear lows as concerns about the global economy begins to percolate here, maybe the demand isn't there with the supply and those prices could go prohibitively lower. u.s. ceo chamber of commerce global energy institution, institute is with us right now. karen, thank you for taking the time. >> nice to be with you, neil. neil: what is going on? just when we seem to get our footing in oil, can bloom? what goes on here? >> i think you're right there is some concern about a global economic slow down not in the u.s., we're doing just fine but around the world.

you're seeing something interesting, the diminished power of opec. opec announced a cut. it couldn't do it on its own. this he looked to rush to help it along. what it means we have power in the global oil market. we'll continue to produce. we're really efficient to produce oil. we can do it at lower price points. they're still making money and continue to take market share from opec and russia. neil: at what point do they stop making money or as much money? i don't know whether $50 a barrel, 47, 48, we must be getting close, or are we? >> depend where you are, neil. neil: sure. >> some places it's 30. some places it's 40. some really hard places it is like 50. they took a really superpower status. neil: where do you stand on this? i understand the draw with a couple states have under 2-dollar gas or couple pennies

above that, that is great for consumers but there is a limit, right? >> there's a limit. consumers are benefiting. it is the holiday season. a lot of people are driving. it is a great thing. it is stimulative to the economy. it's a great business. this is an underpinning of our economy. this is attracting new industries all over the world. natural gas prices in the united states, not gasoline, natural gas here is four times cheaper than it is in europe. why some european heavy industry is moving here. we have wide open doors. there is a point where the industry will start to pull back a little bit. we're not there yet. but if they can still make money they're going to produce and those higher-priced countries producing oil at a higher price will cede market share to us. that is great for us. that reduces the trade deficit the president is concerned about. neil: i always wonder about thes threatening to do the same. i don't know if they made booed on that, there was a last week a

temporary 1.50, 2-dollar pop in aisle and it dissipated. what do you think the saudis will do? >> i think the saudis will do what they always do, pull back a little bit. they have efficient production in opec, they do it cheapest. they pull back hoping price comes up. if nobody cooperates, russia doesn't do what it said it was going to do, we continue to produce, they have diminished capacity to be the price maker in this market these days. that is a dramatic change of events. neil: if we're the one doing okay, i'm not saying exclusively, but among the major powers that seems to be the case, we can't carry the ball on the world for this, right? if china is ebbing, japan is ebbing, much of continental and europe beginning with germany and france, they're slipping, that will offset what is happening, right? prices could go still lower, right? >> prices could go lower but we

have another limiting factor that is self-inflicted wounds here which is we are, subject of this big anti-environment, anti-energy activist movement that is preventing us to move infrastructure around the country to export markets. if we can't export it, we ultimately won't get it out of the ground here. that is the whole point of these factory individuals and anti-energy activists to sop us from using our abundance in energy. world demand of resources next 30 years, fossil fuels account for 80%. the choice for our country. how much of the growth will be ours? 25 to 50% of the growth could be met by our own resources. that is terrific news for the economy as long as we weather short term, medium term bums. neil: as long as we weather them. karen, thanks for catching up, i appreciate it. >> good to see you. neil: a lot of averages were

looking at underpinnings of a bear market, a third of s&p 500 issues down 20% more from their highs. facebook down 26%. russell 2000, hosting small cap issues down into bear market territory and then some, you have to raise the question is this all overkill? the debate after that after this and we've grown substantially. so i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. that's right, $36,000. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. my unlimited 2% cash back is more than just a perk, it's our healthcare. can i say it? what's in your wallet? and now you know. jardiance is the first type 2 diabetes pill

proven to both reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...and lower a1c, with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, and trouble breathing. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction. symptoms of an allergic reaction include rash, swelling, and difficulty breathing or swallowing. do not take jardiance if you are on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. other side effects are sudden kidney problems, genital yeast infections, increased bad cholesterol, and urinary tract infections, which may be serious. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. isn't it time to rethink your type 2 diabetes medication? ask your doctor about jardiance- and get to the heart of what matters.

ask your doctor about jardiance- unstopand it's strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today.

>> welcome back to "coast to coast." i'm gerri willis live from the floor of the new york stock exchange. growth fears will slow as world economies pause pushing russell into bear territory. investors sought out stocks that could emerge from trade wars unscathed. high august 31st 1742, 350 points above today's level. smaller companies rely on u.s. for larger proportion of their revenue but small caps are more risky, carry more debt than their bigger cap cousins. one trader telling us that he expects big cap stocks to recover more quickly than smaller ones, they sold off hard and offer similar if not better value. you can find as much value in a name you know as one that you don't. russell 2000 index is on track

to close down nine out of the last 10 trading days. yesterday's close was a new 52-week low. interestingly the index is still up 15% from election day. johnson & johnson reaffirmed earnings guidance and announced a 5 billion-dollar buyback after reuters reported that the it knew its baby powder products repeatedly tested positive for asbestos. a carcinogen. the company lost 20% on market value on the report and another 3% yesterday. neil, back to you. neil: thank you, gerri. we're still waiting for formal sentencing of the national security advisor to donald trump, all of 24 days, michael flynn. the judge is doing, seems a little bit of a mea culpa on this, when he made a statement that mr. flynn was acting as a foreign agent while in the white house. he went on to ask the government prosecutors should that be clarified?

it was before he was in the white house? the government responding yes, the conduct ended in mid-november obviously before the trump administration took over. the judge saying, i asked the special counsel about other offenses. i wasn't suggesting he was committing treason. i was just curious. the government outlining again today after looking at definition of treason we have no reason to believe general flynn committed treason. what we're waiting for, depending on your definition of treason or not, this does not meet that definition the sentence meted out by the judge. and this has been going on close to an hour. the market is advancing 266 points after falling 500 yesterday. this of course as the market waits to hear tomorrow what the decision on interest rates will be. federal reserve starting a two-day meeting they're widely expected to hike overnight lending rate by another quarter point. 2 1/2%. 2.25, 2 1/2%. no matter how low those rates

are and how low they're likely to remain for a while, because the federal reserve could signal they're going to hold off on further rate increases the fact if you have more debt it will get more pricey. a college professor who feels that more than students saddled with a lot of that debt, right? >> it's a staggering number. what we see right now, neil, because from 2009 until now we had gone from 675 billion to what you see there, 1.5 trillion in student loan debt. these numbers are tremendous and you want to know what? you also have the department of education which guarranties 90% of the that debt. so depending on where the market is going, people are talking about us, sliding into a recession is, neil, can you say bailout once again? i mean this is serious stuff.

neil: when you see that happen, you're talking about 1 1/2 trillion or thereabouts, the number could grow exponentially here, that is a pricey bailout. you have to start wondering do we stop at students, right? >> how about this one, neil? it is not just the students. the problem is, is that you have parents that are taking out debt for their children, right? because they want to see their kids go to the best or the finest universities that they possibly can but here's some numbers that will really set you back. people 62 years and older, have $62 billion of collective debt. between 50 and 61, $213 billion worth of debt. neil, this is not a good sign because these people are not going to be able to afford their retirement. so what we have now is, we have children living with parents, longer and longer. we're going to have a little bit of a an effect, we'll see

parents living with children down the road with all this student debt they're carrying for their kids. neil: this has been out there for a while, right? what is making it more of an issue for markets getting so whipsawed right now? this is among many, i grant you, but what are the markets telling us these days? >> i think markets signaling there is a lot of uncertainty going forward. that uncertainty doesn't play well, neil, for what we're seeing with the growing of this debt. and the reason i think we're having so much growth in student debt, since 2009, is because, people got hurt in the market. they played it wrong. they possibly pulled out early. the bottom line is, they didn't recover. those 529 plans were defleeted. they weren't able to recover enough to put some money into their children's education. and now we're seeing the impact of that, neil. it is serious.

neil: we'll watch it closely. thank you very much, my friend. >> thank you, neil. neil: meantime those are worries longer term. maybe not such a long, long term. but today is the last day in case you're counting free shipping on amazon orders. are retailers set to get a boost? go to retailmenot chief marketing officer marisa carlton. what are you looking at? >> hi, thanks for having me. as you mentioned this will be a big shift from online to in store. retailmenot data started two weeks ago, consumers look more at mobile to in store offers more than e-commerce offers. the primary driver is getting the gifts on time. the postal service is expecting to move 3 billion pieces of mail this week. as you move into this weekend in particular i hope retailers are ready for in-store push. saturday and sunday will be big days. neil: i notice everyone talks about the death of traditional

malls but everyone i pass is crowded to the hilt. people are circling around and around for parking spaces. so have we buried these guys too soon? >> yeah. it is a great question. most consumers, in fact, over 80% prefer to go into a store to drop. millenial generation love immediacy. a lot more modern in store retailing. this is big push on buy pick up in store and rides to pick up your exists from partners like old navy. there is modern take on in-store retail. if mobile is part of in-store retail strategy, those retailers will win. neil: we know, get the reports, i don't know how reliable they are, i trust your data people are upbeat when it comes to the holiday season. talk to them in january, february, paying the bills. for now it will be a record-setting shopping season. do you buy that, agree with that? >> consumer optimism is high.

retailers are spending more. retailmenot surveys every major national retailer. every, across the board, spend levels are anticipated to be up. so as you look not only this week, going into january, i think there is a tremendous amount of optimism for online, in store retail growth. neil: what is selling really, really well? i tend to get figures all over the map what is hot, what is not? people are not really paring expenseses to the degree they're okay buying expensive items but what are you seeing? >> existing trends toward experiences and travel, even self-gifting. not just buying toys for the children, buying spa items for yourself. there is definitely a movement less towards things, more towards experiences but we, over the next two weeks in particular we're going to see a lot of toys this weekend, a lot of gift cards this weekend, a lot of accessories, books. going into post-christmas into

january, start to see parents and people start buying things for themselves, there will still be sales to get a great deal. neil: finally this notion next year could be problematic. whatever we're seeing holiday activity right now. reality of bills, i know you're asked this every year with such is, concern about interest rates and slowing economy even though it seems to be a pretty strong economy, what are you looking at next year? >> you know as i said earlier there is still a tremendous amount of optimism from both consumers and retailers going into january. so far december has been an outstanding month for many with e-commerce growth upwards of 20%. going into the january, into the fall we'll look at things like interest rate and even shipping prices, that might have impacted retail over the december time frame. but i'm very optimistic. neil: all right. maries sachs thank you very much. let's see how these next few days go. a week from today. we shall see. marisa carton. couple things we're following here. this is is an interesting

development in the michael flynn sentencing that his lawyers right now are urging a sentencing delay. we don't know what the catalyst was. just passed along. could have been judges remarks prior to this, he was acting general flynn, as foreign agent. there is no proof of that or doing anything treasonous. they might have waived that. now is not the time to consider sentencing. we are waiting for a decision. what the federal reserve does as it kicks off a two-day meeting to decide the course of interest rates tomorrow. we don't know whether they will hike interest rates. seem as given they will hike rates by another quarter point. the statement is closely scrutinized. from the statement we'll get a direction from the future rate increases of the they factored three next year. growing indications they will pare that down a little bit. how they telegraph that is anyone's guess.

we have the dow jones up 319 1/2 points. we'll have more after this. ..

metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless too. mbc doesn't take a day off, and neither will i. and i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio- the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. in fact, verzenio is a cdk4 & 6 inhibitor for postmenopausal women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer, approved, with hormonal therapy, as an everyday treatment for a relentless disease. verzenio + an ai is proven to help women have significantly more time without disease progression, and more than half of women saw their tumors shrink vs an ai. diarrhea is common, may be severe, and may cause dehydration or infection. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. serious liver problems can occur. symptoms may include tiredness, loss of appetite, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising more easily than normal.

blood clots that can lead to death have also occurred. talk to your doctor right away if you notice pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain or rapid breathing or heart rate. tell your doctor if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include nausea, infections, low red and white blood cells and platelets, decreased appetite, headache, abdominal pain, tiredness, vomiting, and hair thinning or loss. i'm relentless. and my doctor and i choose to treat my metastatic breast cancer with verzenio. be relentless. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. and all thro' the house. 'twas the night before christmas, not a creature was stirring, but everywhere else... there are performers, dancers, designers the dads and the drivers. there are doers of good and bringers of glee. this time of the year is so much more than a bow and a tree. (morgan vo) those who give their best, deserve the best. get up to a $1,250 credit on select models now during the season of audi sales event. ♪

neil: all right, all of the nothing. a judge is already agreed to a delay in the michael's one sentencing today. lawyers for the former trump adviser say in the status report in the flynn case is that really coming up until march 13th of next year so the judge apparently concluded that was worth holding off on us and

being. these are stunning developments here because there was expected to be perfunctory to some sort of sentencing would be weeded out today and it might not than a call for much of any jail time in his delay just the same. we'll keep you posted as lawyers to wait outside the courthouse in washington. what we do now is michael flynn who had been very cooperative with the molar investigation said that he knew he had lied to federal investigators, that he was prepared to meet his punishment rate. it will be put off and maybe for some time. in the meantime in the middle of all this, more worried about the federal reserve and what will be decided by tomorrow at this time when we're expecting interest rates to move out to edward lawrence on capitol hill. if you do, if you don't position. if they don't race, they would panic. one guy at the white house panicking about that.

>> and his advisers exactly appear the federal open market committee started their two-day meeting with a tray from president donald trump. saying don't go by what he calls meaningless numbers and trying to get the fed wishing them good luck on not raising interest rates. the president trying to get those voting members of the fomc to change their minds and palates ranging interest rate tomorrow but also in early part of next year. see in the core inflation at 120% which is below the 2% goal for the fed. they also see rising wages. 3.1 over the past 12 months. low inflation, rising wages. the fed may look at this and say this is too good not to raise interest rates at this moment. the federal reserve wants to give the federal funds rate up because they would like to use that to offset the next recession and they need to get that rate just a little bit higher according to many in the fed. get the rate up in good times,

not in bad times of the federal reserve raises rates tomorrow that will be the fourth time this year in the eighth time under president donald trump, which is not likely to make him happy. neil: no way. thank you very much come edward lawrence. she sees the recession happening as soon as 2023 she joins us now. good to have you. thanks for coming. >> good to be here appeared neil: let's say they didn't race tomorrow. i know that's unlikely, but with the market leading panic into that, like what do they see that we don't? >> that is a true risk at this point in time. and as you are denoted from economic conditions are still very good right now. we have a great holiday season and a sense of what you know that we don't know and what you know that we don't know is coming in financial markets and the certainly not something you'd want to do at this stage. i do think you'll see the pivot type owl where we do get a possible see it in everything from the language of the

statement name there is not going to be that additional gradual rate hike language we saw in the statement before and will also see the infamous.plot where they map out what they're going to do and that will come down to between two and three after being firmly three in the month of september. three and two if it's two or three down just a little bit for maybe as many as three, i don't know if anyone predicted for. is that really that big of a deal? would it do much to change people's perception that they're going to go up anyway? >> the important issue here is that they're willing to wait out the data. they're willing to see up in scope from this point in time. that's where people get the call not if it did the idea that they're going to have a press conference after every meeting so they don't have to do it at these preset meetings where every quarter we get a rate hike and so that takes the pressure off of them. i think you'll see chairman powell underscore flexibility

because there's a lot of uncertainty that the markets are dealing with him they are dealing with a solid one reason i'm concerned about the fact that at straws on the camels are highly not. we could take some of that weight if we resolve trade issues. but as the straws on the back of a camel pile up and push us into recession. neil: diane, thank you very much. joe durrant is with us right now. i believe that the united capital. joseph, what do you think? if the federal reserve board to do this, go ahead and hike interest rates tomorrow, believe it for a little while longer. in other words, not #be an independent which sounds like a good idea. how is the markets react to that? >> i think it will be a positive. we're all kind of expect and it honestly. i don't think there will be a lot of surprise. right now the trade issue is

bigger than what the fed is likely to do. we've been through this before and so again he raises rates. he says he's going to breathe a sigh of relief. you get 200, 300-point rally and it's likely to get sold into unfortunately. whether in a bull market or bear market is answered by simple questions. you benefit by buying dips are you better off selling into rallies? right now the last several months as a cell into the rally market and a bear market and small cap stocks come in the question for everyone should be a repost into the end or beginning of the decline? for me i would suggest for probably over the halfway mark of any pain were going to suffer, but there is still more volatility to come and not because of the e-zine. the other thing is pulling back liquidity, which is the thing we say to people. the fed rate is important but not as important as what's

happening with them taking all the liquidity out of the system which is what is causing the increased volatility. incredible decline, goldman sachs down 30%, 40% is because there's so much liquidity being taken out. tree into facebook and city in ibm, apple, wells fargo, bank of america, all 25% or more. we'll watch it carefully. thank you very, very much. in the meantime we've been following this other development were a judge has agreed to delay michael flynn sentencing right now for essentially lying to federal investigators are trial attorney seth behrens went with us right on the phone. i hope i pronounced it correctly. what you make of this? >> yeah, good afternoon. i think what happened today really falls under the head of it becoming a big deal. his lawyer, general flynn's attorney made a huge blunder in

some kind of smoke signal to the white house trying to backpedal a little bit with regard to circumstances and similarly the president had also sent a signal just a couple hours ago stating that they were peaking about flynn and wishing him all the best and so forth. the judge is very smart. this is not lost on him. the smoke signals floating across the potomac realty had an impact and we step back and take a look at what's been happening with other people that have been supposedly cooperating such as paul manafort. the judge made it clear if there was going to be a suntan it might not go very well for general flynn. so although i'm shocked about what happened over the last 24 hours, i'm not surprised by the result. neil: now, when a judge rules like that come amid sentencing hearing, is that unusual?

>> well, yes and no. it's not unusual to have a continuance of the sentencing and who also has occurred here to take place in 90 days. but the contracts in the circumstances in this state are unusual because you have a situation where i believe that the judges concerned and could be legitimately so that they were really starting to see kind of a reproach meant between the white house and certain witnesses cooperators. when you have that kind of a statement in a public filing by general flynn and then you have this messaging that going on, in the context of the i think it's unusual. you're talking about the former national security adviser to the president of the united states. none of this was lost on the judge. so again, the circumstances leading up to today's hearing was very surprising, but the

results in my view it's not in now at least another nine days. neil: but do you think the judge was -- wasn't going to get off lightly to your earlier point that this is going to be maybe much more of a sentence then for example bob mueller had advised? >> yeah, because the memoranda are things the judge provides substantially. at the end of the day the judge has the discretion to apply a sentence within the guidelines and the judge would have clearly been within the scope of his discretion to apply a sentence of up to six months. i don't think he necessarily would've gotten this, but the attorney went in there. we want to have sentencing today. the judge said are you sure you want to do that and they took them over to think about it. it was clear mr. flynn was going to jail if he was not going to cooperate further, so therefore

it also radar something very important to the white house. when you start getting other signals that are involved in the ecosystem of this case such as paul manafort and so forth come in this case matters not only a big deal the context of this case, that of the russian investigation. neil: all right, thank you very, very much. there will be no sentencing of michael flynn today and it will be put off until at least next march around march 13th when a status report is due. maybe that is the time all this happens, so that is put off in one of the unknowns to remain out there. i'd be a of whether we look at a government shut down and weather were going to see the federal reserve telegraphing a slowdown of interest rate hikes going in the new year. what's at stake in that new year, but if investors are concerned about any of the above. for the time being the dow jones industrial at 309 points. we will have more after this.

comcast business built the nation's largest gig-speed network. then went beyond. beyond chasing down network problems. to knowing when and where there's an issue. beyond network complexity. to a zero-touch, one-box world. optimizing performance and budget. beyond having questions. to getting answers. "activecore, how's my network?"

"all sites are green." all of which helps you do more than your customers thought possible. comcast business. beyond fast. neil: all right, we're expecting a white house briefing in 15 minutes or so could the biggest news of the moment of michael flynn will be waiting to leave next march for sentencing for lying to federal investigators and the like. the fed job and to do that for

the recommendation that now was not the time to go ahead and do that. having said that, the added development here is what could wait general flynn in the meantime. maybe presidential pardoning. it's too soon to tell. that's the news today. we are waiting for news tomorrow after the federal reserve about 15 minutes ago kicked off its every six weeks meeting here to decide the interest rates come expectations that the federal reserve will go ahead and high guilty summertime. maybe set the stage for fewer rate hikes next year. "the wall street journal" with a very interesting editorial today not to satisfy the president demanded now is not the time, but quoting here the larger argument for pauses that the fed is lighting the largest monetary experiment in modern history. central banks around the world are moving away for multi-trillion dollar bond purchases and your interest rate and they're doing it with without a roadmap.

what is the normal interest rate in the post-crisis world? we don't know when we doubt the fed does either. at about this fellow had anything to do. i do know he's an incredible writer. bill mcgurn, wall street editorial board member, former speechwriter george w. bush. is not effectively saying now is not the time? that's where this comes down, right? >> look, i think in general the journalists sympathetic to what the fed chairman is trying to do. get us back to some normalcy after all of this time of such low rates. i think we'll broadly support the effort. right now is there a need to tighten? and then the political question is though this may be the right thing to do, president trump is urging it very vigorously and we believe that makes it harder for the chairman to do what we like to do because he wants to show

independence. neil: i don't know if the president will pass up an opportunity to save the fed does that, ha ha. >> very unlikely. neil: so what happens? how is the federal reserve more to the point answer that they were sort of forced into a corner, jawbone to not move it if it comes to that. >> and to read the editorial there are two points there. one, the chairman needs to say what is best for the economy? don't worry about the politics because if you get the economy right the politics will sort themselves out. >> i can assure you would make her decision on her economic merit. >> i would be difficult but that's what you say. that's your job and you're trying to do the right thing. that's the right thing to say. neil: last summer together. i was enjoy your visits, but the fed has a history of a were played at the end either in cutting rates are hiking them. i'm wondering here whether the

president can take some solace in saying don't look to me for botching this. they botched it. >> i'm sure if things go south that's what he's going to do. but, president trump has done some great tanks to the economy in cutting taxes and getting rid of unnecessary regulation. but there other questions of uncertainty like to trade deal. a lot of question marks over the economy right now. we would like to see the growth, which is incredible continue. neil: it might be just noise in the economic sense that i referred to the michael flynn delayed sentencing now for the mueller probe continued. i don't know how long it will drag on. just the uncertainty of that stuff on this market. >> look, if i knew how much they affected markets, i wouldn't be here. i would be making billions of living in the caribbean. neil: you strike me as a guy who was doing what your doing good but go ahead i understand.

>> it's certainly roiling politics and roiling the country. i don't know how much of spoiling the economy. we have so many other things going on in the economy right now. neil: that true. market shutdown. we around the shut down and looking at the comments we've heard from the likes of nancy pelosi, chuck schumer that they are offering little grounder which will room for the president of the united states is gone on the record as saying i can search around another venue like military spending and reappropriate those funds. a lot of lawyers argue on both sides of this. we will see what the president can do to get its way in to avoid it government shut down. after this. nah. not gonna happen.

that's it. i'm calling kohler about their walk-in bath. my name is ken, how may i help you? hi, i'm calling about kohler's walk-in bath. excellen[ pop ] happy to help. huh? hold one moment please... [ finger snaps ] hmm. the kohler walk-in bath features an extra wide opening and a low step-in at three inches. which is 25 to 60% lower than some leading competitors. the bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. kohler is an expert in bathing,

so you can count on a deep soaking experience. are you seeing this? the kohler's walk-in bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohler-certified installer. and it's made by kohler, america's leading plumbing brand. we need this bath. yes. yes you do. a kohler walk-in bath provides independence with peace of mind. call to save $500 off bath walls with your walk in bath or visit kohlerwalkinbath.com for more info.

neil: all right, really don't know much about delays in sending being that now my area. michael flynn said dean has been delayed for lying to federal

investigators come fbi, you know the drill there. i talk about the potential for shutdowns because it seems like i've covered so many of them in the federal reserve that sort of stuff. akamai will bear here along with my good buddy chat sub 10 on what they are doing on capitol hill to avoid that unlikely all the above. when you hear? >> the house minority leader nancy pelosi walked out of the meeting with senate minority leader chuck schumer and says they reject any potential proposal by the white house and senate republicans at 1.6 for a border wall. i'm going to redo something you're nancy nancy pelosi said a moment ago. she said i don't know what the pats would be to avoid a shutdown. maybe a short-term cr. but democrats seem to be offering in this really hasn't changed in the past 24 hours for two paths. seven outstanding spending bills to the new six bills about dhs mr. brenner written those of my figures for the new fiscal year

and a short-term or stopgap cr for the rest of the fiscal year. a continuing resolution which maintains the money at that level or do i stopgap for all seven for the rest of the fiscal year. that's a problem for president trump because he may have gotten so far were the tip of this keypad is a dial pad back and not face republicans and conservatives who want the border wall. something we heard this morning on fox firm sarah sanders, the white house spoke her sin was that they might have a way to get around this. what she is alluding to here is something on capitol hill called reprogramming. among the five bills they party approved, neil, include what we called military reconstruction projects in department of veterans affairs. but listen not is money for the army corps of engineers and what you can do is reprogram money, so you're going to use it for project day and then move it to project v. there is a catch, though. you have to have congressional blessing and i just asked nancy

pelosi this question a few moments ago. i said could you do it without congressional blessing and she said i can imagine anyway that you would do that. there's a little bit of money that you do have a bit of agility with, maybe the millions of dollars. million within and to move around money. you have to have congressional approval. article i section nine of the constitution is crystal clear that the purview of spending falls under congress. has to be approved by congress. neil: and that would include the house obvious way. >> that would include the chairs and ranking members of the subcommittee for military construction va. you can imagine democrats would dial back in any way. another thing you can do a something called a transfer. a transfer when you take money from the defense bill which is argued that approved with the military construction bill and move it to dhs. that is called a transfer. but the process is virtually the same. you have to get that blessing from capitol hill.

the senate republicans and senate democrats are having their weekly party caucus lunches as we speak across the capital. after those lunches off or what the legislative agenda might be for the rest of the week. something's got to give here pretty soon because we are almost midweek. the house of representatives is due next week and they haven't made any progress on averting a shutdown friday night. neil: amazing. thank you very, very much. maybe it looks like we've gotten used to these things, but the market are flustered about the term presidency. someone corrected me and said the 12 of the last six years -- haven't been able to verify that. maybe it shows that we've got used to that sort of thing. the shock effect jboss. let's go to art laffer. what is it about shutdowns? they don't carry the stigma they used to? >> they don't reduce spending at all. all they do is delay it and you have to pay it back once it's

over. so it's really a futile attempt. i do know what it does. just causes disruption. if they could cut government spending and hold up for six months i'd be without all the way. but that is not what's going to happen. the political disruption with no content. neil: there does have to be a better way to find a solution for this border wall. not the 1.4 to 1.5 that democrats already allocated. they avoid this whole thing by taking the money and doing that now that he technically cannot do that. we are back to square one here, right? >> you're back to square one. i don't know whether he can technically do it or not but it doesn't seem plausible he'd be a lot do something like that. if you've got a group of people unwilling to compromise -- >> when he wanted the "star wars" defense initiative and i was originally going to come and

defend if congress wasn't going to go along with him, it never got to the point where you had to go ahead and implement a separate budget or because the russians quickly got the negotiating table and made i guess a moot point. how did he handle that at the time? >> i remember how he handled it. he would impound funds and just not spend them and that they could do. in 1973, neil, by doing that no longer can the president impound the sons anymore, which means i'll see you can't un- impound them and use the funds as they see fit. they can be solved as just a deadlock and i just wish they'd get government spending down. all of this stuff is way too high. neil: you know come another thing we are hearing as well is there going to start looking at

the president's tax cuts and rejiggering and redoing what they can. now, presumably that would mean ending are cutting back the cut may be for corporations. i don't know how much of this is lot and in how much of it is then. play that out to me what to worry about. >> i do worry about the tax bill to be honest. it's going to be here throughout this whole year. i can imagine a budget, and that would be for january. that's not going to happen. i'm not worried about the tax bill pay the tax bill is the one thing i build all of my hopes upon the tax bill and deregulation. we've got other things going on that i am all about. it's a very precarious time right now in the threat of a trade war is really quite scary. but that i think is a good chance for a good outcome. government spending is the one you and i know we really had to get that control starting with stimulus spending.

with obama stimulus spending coming remember how you brought jack kemp to me saying he supported it, which i didn't. you remember all that discussion. government spending is a killer and i don't see how this new congress is going to bring back government spending and really get this economy to prosper. >> there's those who argues that stimulate and were obviously going to see them on full display without in the party controlling the senate and of course the tiebreaker being the president. it sounds like you're saying given that make it appear things won't change tax policy wise over the next two years. >> yeah, very hopeful this will be two years of being nothing. the policies are steep and take affect. if you remember we did our tax bill and 81 and an 82 we lost a lot of seats and then he looked at 83, 84 and saw the boom

column. that is in the tax bill had an effect in the monetary policy and regulatory policy. at the end of those two years to do nothing the world changed dramatically and i'm hoping that same type of change can occur with this administration in the next two years. i'm looking forward to in so far were off to a fairly good on the real numbers, real gdp employment. these numbers are looking okay. they can be great for another couple years am and that they are off on the right foot and i'm hopeful we'll have a good couple of years. neil: were typical for years to see the bang for the buck. i remember when he was looking like a one term or entities not going to make a second term. >> i was sitting on the edge of my seat ready to fall over. i hate being in that type of anxiety but it turned out really well. it turned out beautifully and then we had the boom of the boom. it was just great and i think the same circumstances apply today and as long as they don't

screw something up really big the next two years will be okay. neil: barring any impeachment proceedings. it's déjà vu all over again. poor old michael flynn. as a human being. they know the answer to the question they asked him to check in the ft is willing to lie to them. this dramas on to fight another day come next march. how much are you willing to lie to get a lower sentence. you've got all the wrong incentives in place. neil: he has admitted to lying, but we'll see what happens. thank you, my friend. merry, merry christmas i'll write. behave yourself. also a key adviser. people didn't know that. think about that. we have a lot more here waiting for the white house briefing

templates pushed back another 15 minutes or so which means more time after that. can you imagine all the issues that will come up not the least of which being michael flynn, possible government shutdown, interest rates higher as soon as tomorrow. we are there. stay with us. you are watching fox business. the hard work you put into lowering your

very high triglycerides with diet and exercise deserves the hard work that went into the science behind vascepa. prescription vascepa. vascepa, along with diet and exercise, has proven results in multiple clinical trials. vascepa looks different because it is different. over a decade of extensive research and development achieved proven results. that's the prescription power of vascepa. vascepa is not right for everyone. do not take vascepa if you are allergic to icosapent ethyl or any inactive ingredient in vascepa. tell your doctor if you are allergic to fish, have liver problems or other medical conditions and about any medications you take, especially those that may affect blood clotting.

2.3% of patients reported joint pain. ask your doctor about what the science behind prescription vascepa can mean to you. amarin thanks the clinicians and patients who participated in the vascepa clinical trials.

neil: you know, there's money to be had if you have the guys put the money put in out there. charlie gasparino with the details on that end. where is this money coming from, sir? >> investors through this comes at an interesting time for space ask anyone musk as you know. the other company, tesla under regulatory cloud. both bull investigations come sec probe, justice department settled. not without its controversy as well. fox news network can report and

we've been reporting as they get the money from inside investors raising $500 million, federal agencies are also looking at elon musk security clearance for that little pot smoking episode he had on the job robie podcast. as many as three federal agencies are examining security clearance. we understand they've got it confirmed from people at these departments or the defense department, air force and nasa looking at the security clearance. the steps are you look at it whether you should do an investigation on whether you should pull the security clearance. they're not at the investigation point, but this is kind of interesting and serious just as he's raising the money these federal agencies are lucky that the pot smoking because apparently they have a security clearance, there you go. looks like you have a lot of fun

there. you apparently are supposed to be smoking pot and that's essentially what he did. we'll get back to more on that. it doesn't seem to bother current investors who forked over another $500 billion for the new project could remember he has two projects. he has spacex, which is space. and then tesla which is a public company. i heard your little quick to art laffer before that. he covered the fillmore administration. if he covered fillmore, he was an advisor to fillmore he must've covered reporting fdr. the dates are. neil: by the way, a lot of viewers are letting me know that spacex is looking for its first

astronaut on a one-way mission. they volunteered you. it's not nice? >> i'm available, dude. i could just see it now. thank you very, very much, charlie gasparino. the president is issuing an order right now to create a new space command at the kennedy space center earlier to talk about it. take a look. >> it is my privilege to announce that today they will direct the department of defense to establish a combatant command that will oversee all our military activities in space. a new era of american national security and space begins today. neil: so more of the right stuff, it a proud member of that group as clayton andersen, the question is space. thank you for taking the time. when you make of this initiative? what will it do versus what we have now?

>> you know, full disclosure i'm a civilian retired astronaut by his military. so perhaps some of my colleagues have more intel than i do. but based on the things i know, and it is looking more and more like it's going to be a big project. in terms of the details of what exactly they will do, that still remains to be seen, but i do think it's important that we protect our assets in space. drain to the one thing that worries me about this i don't want to sound paranoid about it, but does this supersede nasa, in other words attacked knowledge you combined with military now because that would get a little anxious. >> yeah, i'm not sure of the actual details of the vector that. in the old days, we did bring some air force personnel to learn how to do the things that nasa does. i still think they're pretty separate. i would like to think we would keep them separate, but again

that's way above my pay grade. neil: i just know that coming up, if you think about her original astronauts air force fighter pilots and the pilots and the rest of it was that synergy there. i am wondering whether we are trying to write what has been a rickety space exploration chip for us. in fact so much so we buy a march have been looking right at the russians to get to the space station that will soon be changing our success on the unmanned remains second to none. a couple now that of escape the solar system. we've got some backing up like la guardia heading to mars. so were doing okay. what is your sense of where we going? >> well, i think you're exactly right. there's so much out there from commercialization and space to militarization of space, to all the other things we do with unmanned probes. i think there's enough to go around with everyone.

even if you go back in history, we did have a military parallel to nasa in the early days and often times those come together eventually. but how they come together remains to be seen. it's going to be a very interesting 10 to 15 to 20 years. neil: is very interesting me talk about the early days to your point. john kennedy plays that rivalry with the then soviet union to his advantage to get more funding for space initiatives he does no one wanted the soviets on the moon first. no one wanted them continuing to be just as they did in the early days to get mad and later women in space. so that worked to his advantage. now there is a little left of that cold war mentality. much of the fact that the chinese are dramatically building their space operations. what is your sense of where this battle goes? >> the part about the chinese is also a concern to me and i've advocated many times that if i were in the white house and the

administration i be advocating to partner with china sooner than later. i think it's important if we look at the space station on the collaboration we've had internationally in the things we've done with russia and with the other partners i think we could begin to make the same and wrote if we partnered with china. i get that they are communist country. i understand that there are laws and rules against that, but those things can be changed and modified in more such that if we're working with them and space i don't think were fighting with them. neil: up for work in concert of there will be less inclined to battle down here. you might have something to that. clayton, great seeing you. thank you very much. >> things come and kneel. thank you very much. trained to you, too. a great cheerleader for all things way beyond terrestrial planet. speaking of our terrestrial planet, all the terrestrial concerns we have about a government shutdown, the course of interest rates, michael flynn

and why the sentencing is delayed for a number of months they're all going to come up when sarah sanders get to that microphone. a white house briefing moment the way. after this. to knowing when and where there's an issue. beyond network complexity. to a zero-touch, one-box world. optimizing performance and budget. beyond having questions. to getting answers. "activecore, how's my network?" "all sites are green." all of which helps you do more than your customers thought possible. comcast business. beyond fast. and i'm still going for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both.

so what's next? seeing these guys. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you. cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ♪ there's no place likargh!e ♪ i'm trying... ♪

yippiekiyay. ♪ mom. ♪

neil: all right, waiting for a white house briefing as the dow

jones industrials are skirting had about 206 points. they take around 50% of their earlier gains but still up appreciably here. oil falling below $48 has not hurt the market here. understanding signaling that does reflect the global slowdown. they hiked interest rates and may be we'll see more about when they wrap up that two-day meeting. let's get to read on oil as bill flynn who follows this very closely out of chicago. what is your sense of what is driving these prices lower? >> i think fear more than anything else. fear that we are in a global slowdown. you know, it's almost like the oil market i see on the board here and what i'm seeing for weekly inventory supply and demand are really divorced from each other. it seems that the oil market is telling us, hey, forget about strong demand near record high. there's something bad happening in the global economy and its writer on the corner. what evidence do they have for

that? global inventory in october did get back above the five-year average for the first time in over a year. but that's not unusual because this time of year the demand is usually week in october. you're also hearing concerns that this opec production cut isn't going to happen because russians produce a record amount of oil last month. if you hear from the russians they say no, were on board is just going to take us a little time. were going to get there. i'm looking at this oil price. this starts to concern me. more than the other economic members unlucky now. we always think prices are going to be great and we are definitely seeing that in the future price tear gas prices down another 5 cents a gallon today. the really reflecting a slowdown in demand, backing the economy could contract. it could mean oil companies, oil producers will have a hard time making money. they'll cut back on production

that could mean layoffs. it's a very difficult situation and after watching the oil market is probably make in their job a little bit more difficult. neil: jerome powell is a bit of a market historian, not like ben bernat used to be, but i hearken back to the early 80s after we had twin oil crises in the 70s when oil just collapse in a triggered a big slowdown and one that collapsed a lot of refineries and oil marketers. so that is the fear they have, right? >> it is a fear. you go back a few years in 2008, oil prices meant for $147 down to 30 and yeah, gasoline prices dropped below the $3 a gallon, but the economy had grown to a halt. we've seen sellouts like this before in the price of oil and sometimes they're out of whack. we saw this 2016 we had opec

flooding the market with oil trying to put the shell gas out of business. that's not the case now. opec is on board to try to reduce production and lower prices. i will say the shell guys will have a difficult time here, neil. i know they've been doing a lot of hedging of things, but when you get price stops like this it's difficult to go to the bank and say i need more money than they struggles off pretty soon. trained to the financing for a lot of this. phil flynn, thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: the white house briefing still delayed but it is still scheduled to miss the opportunity for sarah sanders to address all of these concerns right after this. and neither will i. and i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio- the only one of its kind that can be taken every day.

in fact, verzenio is a cdk4 & 6 inhibitor for postmenopausal women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer, approved, . . and more than half of women saw their tumors shrink vs an ai. diarrhea is common, may be severe, and may cause dehydration or infection. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. serious liver problems can occur. symptoms may include tiredness, loss of appetite, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising more easily than normal. blood clots that can lead to death have also occurred. talk to your doctor right away if you notice pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain or rapid breathing or heart rate. tell your doctor if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include nausea, infections, low red and white blood cells and platelets, decreased appetite, headache, abdominal pain, tiredness,

vomiting, and hair thinning or loss. i'm relentless. and my doctor and i choose to treat my metastatic breast cancer with verzenio. be relentless. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. starts with looking buiat something old,nk and saying, "really?" so capital one is building something completely new. capital one cafes. inviting places with people here to help you, not sell you. and savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. because that's how it should be. you can open one from right here or anywhere in 5 minutes. seriously, 5 minutes... this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet?

♪ neil: all right, still waiting for the white house briefing. markets come off the highs a little bit here. looking more like we're going to see a government shutdown in a few days. michael block says there is a thirst for bipartisanship on all of that. good luck with that, michael. what do you see happening? >> example of market tries to bo up and keeps failing. if it is not one thing it is another thing. we had the segment with phil flynn about oil, oil price coming down is maybe not surprising that volatility will affect other markets and stifle other rallies. we have a lot of managers throwing in the towel, hit the

reset button. for now there is a lot of uncertainty and pain. the data and internal politics are not helping here. i said a lot about getting the parties together across the aisle. i wrote an open letter to president trump last week and, let's see if we can get together. we her more about stimulus and farm bill over the weekend. let's hear more about that. neil: but we're not and that does that bother you? >> that does bother me. that is what we need for growth. the fact of the matter is data is slowing. i'm not one of the guys says we're headed to recession. half the ceos see recession next year. that means half don't see a recession next year. put that in your pipe and smoke it perhaps, however you want to put that. how do you like them apples. neil: family show. >> how do you like them apples. neil: the marketing and what they're wore i had i bought, if

we have a shutdown i don't think that shocks them. if the fed overplays their hand that would jolt them. the fed is expected to hike rates tomorrow what is the fallout from possibility they don't do that? >> if it is run into, the doomsayers says the fed know something we don't. they see a lot of data but we see a lot of data. it was interesting the president, neil, said let the market tell you what is going on. don't listen to the meaningless numbers. maybe the president read my open letter. the market feeds the data and the markets and so on. neil: that is did relationship to have where the market is calling your cues. >> never mind if it is healthy or not. it is reality. that is how it goes. they shouldn't knee-jerk, jay powell shouldn't be a day-trader f there is weakness in market. wealth effect is hurting housing and some data, we'll have say, hey, that is the problem here.

we'll have to say this is a real part of what is happening this is something that is important. i impress this upon investors and clients, viewers everyone else, market dependence, as opposed to data dependence, that is true for me, the fed and everybody. neil: what about the ongoing noise around the on going mueller investigation? there are so many unknowns. a lot of people are anxious where this will all end of the are you? >> no. i feel like we've been hearing this for a long time. the one thing i've said was it is interesting there were these reports from other news outlets saying that the president was concerned about impeachment. he was asking people am i going to be impeached, what will happen here? does that get him focused on policy picture i'm happy about that i'm not totally optimistic that's going to happen. for me this is not something the market really cares about. take the nuclear scenario, there is impeachment. he expelled from office. if vice president pence comes in

i think markets are at the point now, there will be tumult there. there is chance of unrest happening from that but does that change anything market, policy, accident i cans wise? perhaps not. maybe that is heresy to say that i'm not looking for that to happen. i don't think it is likely. if something like that happens there could be scenario. maybe there is chance of bipartisanship there? perhaps. >> always looking at half full glass potential. thank you very much good seeing you, michael block. connell mcshane for the next hour. we're waiting for sarah sanders, respond to crosscurrents, possibility of a government shutdown. interest rates could go up tomorrow. the president made it clear, if you think about it, connell, don't even touch that dial. if they do, can you imagine? connell: we're on empty podium watch. very good for ratings. that's why i'm happy to be on. good to see you.

talk to you more. i'm connell mcshane filling in for charles payne. we welcome you at this hour to "making money." we're waiting for sarah sanders. the white house was holding a press briefing. we thought it was half an hour ago. you should know these things get delayed. today's has been delayed. uncertainty over government shut down, investigations, michael flynn sentencing or lack thereof. sure to come up. we'll bring you the briefing with sarah sanders live when it happens. could be any second now. plus, bounceback today on wall street. we see green all over the screen. dow mounting a comeback of what was