pelosi and now he can't? i bet he's going to ask her to be his valentine >> that would have solved everything. the whole state of the union deal. >> i bet that was going to happen, but maybe not. >> thanks for joining us. >> bulls & bears starts right now. capitalism in the crosshairs. social activists and u2 frontman bono now weighing in on the big debate sparked by comments by congresswoman alexandria ocasio cortez. i'm lauren simonetti in for david asman tonight. joining me is the panel today. welcome everybody. congresswoman aoc making waves earlier this week for saying that a system that allows billionaires to exist when others struggle in poverty is immoral and wrong. well, here's what bono had to say at a forum in davos today.

>> capitalism is not immoral. it's amoral. it requires our instruction. capitalism has taken more people out of poverty than any other ism. but it is a wild beast, and if not tamed, it can chew up a lot of people, along the way. >> panel, what do you make of bono's explanation there? >> well, i think saying that capitalism is a wild beast is making the point that human beings are wild beasts unless constrained. you have sensible rules of the road, capitalism works, as he points out. 137,000 people each day are brought out of dire poverty because of what capitalism, free markets, whatever you want to call it is done. in 200 years, per capita income in today's dollars has gone from a little over a thousand dollars in this country to over $50,000. where does she think the money comes from to make possible progress? it comes from investment.

it comes from people investing capital. it doesn't happen from government. government takes from the people. people create the resources that she so willfully wants to use. >> wild beast might be a little too flattering right now. i'm looking at the earnings estimates for the first quarter, down to 2%. we have got more like a turtle with a cramp right now. we should be so lucky to have a wild beast. remember when bono used to be like a far left activist, you know, person outspoken on the same issues. he was basically aoc 30 years ago. this is what happens when you put a couple hundred million dollars in someone's bank account, all of a sudden they love capitalism. i'm happy to hear it anyhow. >> until he had records to show, right, jack? it benefits him, capitalism that is over time. i hate the verb i guess that aoc if i use that term used which is allows. come on. allows? actually propagates, creates billionaires, creates success. capitalism doesn't allow anything. it actually promotes people to be more efficient. it allows free markets to at

least behave, so there's your allows. it allows companies who do things well to actually make profits, those who don't by the way via the free market wills go away -- free markets will go away. they will get blasted out of there because people won't buy their stuff. capitalism works. >> where does she think the wherewithal comes from that enables her to wear those nice clothes? business people do it. they are able to do it because they have capital from savings of people. >> i always agree with bono because i love him. i met him a couple years in munich actually. i have a cute selfie with him. but he made a great point here i think in actually defending capitalism as we see it now. the one thing that i think that we do that we mistake is we dismiss aoc. she actually has a lot of reach to millennials, to young people, to the generations coming behind it. even though steve i totally agree with you on the fundamentals what you just said, i think the republican party has a very big messaging problem

with young people as it relates to socialism and to capitalism. i mean they are not looking at venezuela which we're going to talk about later in the show, and how people are literally starving in the streets there. she's giving them some sort of swedish norway utopian vision which doesn't even make sense -- >> go ahead, scott. >> they're being tricked, though, to morgan your point they are being tricked to thinking -- millennials think socialism is going to save you because capitalism is going to destroy you. the message to millennials is capitalism isn't going to work for you or care about you. therefore you don't have to try. we will put the socialist policies in place. >> morgan brings up a good point. you have to make the moral case for capitalism. in a true free market you don't succeed unless you provide something that somebody else wants. it meets the needs and wants of other people. steve jobs said sometimes people don't know what they want until

he shows them. but it's entrepreneurship putting something out there, and if you don't provide something somebody wants, you fail. >> you were talking, morgan, about the messaging of the republican party on the benefits of capitalism. >> i used to think that democrats were for capitalism too, but maybe not. >> well for a lot of people, and when we're talking about the rock star bono, his heart might be democratic, but when you grow up and you have money, you realize a republican makes more sense in a lot of things. but if you look at the younger generation of which aoc is part of, they are saddled with student debt. until recently they have had difficulty finding jobs. they don't have the down payment -- >> -- during the financial crisis. >> -- for a home. you can see in that case because they are excluded from capitalism, that is hard for them. >> the point that should be made that crisis and the problems they have had with student debt, where did that come from? the government. the crisis of 08 came from the government. that's not free markets. that's a failure of government and government overregulation,

trashing the dollar, overtaxation and the like. >> i don't find her views by the way so radical, and don't you want someone on the left who can express these? she wants healthcare -- >> do you think the world is going to end in 12 years too? >> i don't think the world is going to end in 12 years. my republican friends like to talk about her so often it makes me think of that song i hate myself for loving you. they are in love with this woman. they can't stop talking about her. they obsess over everything she says. >> i agree with you on that. >> she's the virtual speak over the house of representatives it is amazing. she and her radical friends got on the financial services committee. usually you have to wait years. they got their way into it. nancy pelosi doesn't do anything without their permission. it is amazing. >> the democratic party then has in many ways become radicalized, isn't that what the president said? >> out of control. >> that's what the president said just moments ago when he was speaking. >> it must be true. if the president said it, it's gospel. >> the democratic party has moved so far from center. and that's what we're dealing with. >> but i do think actually she's bringing up some things that are

worth of conversation. while i don't agree with the policies she's pursuing in the green new deal, she's talking about a lot of things -- like she's talking about a 100% renewable energy electric grid, there's a lot going on with iot, the smart grids that is revolutionizing the ways we get things done. there's so many opportunities for people that are pro capitalism and pro private sector that yes we do agree with you. we need a green new deal but it doesn't need to be through government intervention. let's look at everything the private sector is doing. >> we have it there. nuclear power does not spew stuff into the atmosphere and natural gas, same thing. germany went all out and their electricity costs three times what it does in the u.s. does she want to saddle especially struggling people? >> to go back to what bono said,

though, he is european and we look at the homeless crisis in the world, we see it here in manhattan every single day, big european cities see it as well, a lot of these -- if you're relying on the government or state agencies to help with problems like that, because they are dealing with homelessness and other issues, their finances are strained. so you need the money -- >> their finances are strained? why are they strained? because they have a pension system that doesn't work. they have crushed their local economies. europe thinks it is good when they grow 1 or 2 percent. >> businesses don't want to be there. >> healthcare doesn't have real free markets. if you allow people to be creative, which is the essence of capitalism, creativity, these things will be solved. free markets with true free markets always scarcities turned into abundance. let it happen. >> and to quote a great u2 song, guys, one of my favorites, out of control, it is on the album -- >> i was waiting for someone to do that. >> this is going out of control. i mean, if we let aoc take her

reins as far as she wants to go, it is going to be out of control. i'm telling you guys. 12 years, we will be lucky if she's in control and the world ends in 12 years, how about that? >> one of my very good friends kristen anderson who is on fox quite a bit has done a significant amount of polling. if anyone is interested in, this she has a book out called the selfie vote, i have been so shocked and surprised at the polling she has done of young millennials as it relates to the republican party, the capitalism, to socialism. i mean, this is something that i think that we have taken for granted, those of us that are for free markets and free enterprise, we are losing, we are losing the generation. we need to seriously consider th that. >> the republicans need to learn to communicate again instead of taking granted from what they had from ronald reagan. >> aoc is setting a bar here, and republicans need to respond. she's saying we have a wealth inequality problem, her answer is tax the super high incomes at 70%. if you have a better way to deal

with the problem, let's hear it. she's saying universal healthcare. i'm waiting to hear the republican plan. i'm not saying her plans are the best way. the answer can't just be burn more coal. she has a plan. i'm not necessarily with all of it. i'm waiting for republicans to produce better ideas >> that's very fair. >> we will see as 2020 is right around the corner. president trump defiant as he and speaker pelosi duke it out over if, when, and where the president will deliver the state of the union address, less than a week away. this as the shutdown drags on, day 33 now. the latest developments happening right now on capitol hill, when we return. >> the sad thing for our country. we'll do something in the alternative. we'll be talking to you about that at a later date. rl >> >> >> no more excuses with cologuard.

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>> state of the union is in the constitution. we're supposed ton doing it, and now -- we're supposed to be doing it, and now, nancy pelosi or nancy as i call her, she doesn't want to hear the truth and she didn't want to hear more importantly the american people hear the truth, so we just found out that she's cancelled it. i think that's a great blotch on the incredible country that we

all love. >> president trump responding to a letter from speaker pelosi this afternoon denying the president access to the house chamber for his state of the -- for his state of the union next week and until the government has reopened. the president says he will find another place to give this address. the shutdown to keep you posted is in day 33 with white house economic advisor kevin hasset warning that we could see 0 growth this quarter, if the shutdown does not end. joining us from capitol hill, georgia congressman. congressman, thank you very much for joining us. i guess what everybody wants to know is how far does this actually go? >> you know, lauren, i wish i could tell you. i don't know how far it can go because we're in an unprecedented time. i mean, look, when has ever a speaker of the house denied the president the ability to come and do the state of the union address? so, you know, i've been here for four years. i served in the state

legislature for nine years. i've been involved in politics from the outside for many years. i have never seen anything like this, especially when you can't even get to the table to begin the negotiations, especially on something that both sides within the last five years agreed on. and so it's -- i don't know how much longer this can go other than maybe the president using his executive powers to go ahead and start constructing the barriers, where we need them, where the border patrol says that they want them, and then we just fund the res rest of the government and go forward. >> congressman, there is a report out today that the white house is considering having a way for some of the daca recipients to actually getting a green card that's been criticized by some people in the conservative movement. where do you stand on that? do you think that could potentially be a way to get out of the gridlock? >> well, i think so. i mean at some point you are going to start losing some of the base in there, but if you go back to last year, we brought a lot of these proposals to the

table. we had the goodlat 1 and 2 bill which was more of the comprehensive reform of the immigration system. we addressed things such as visa overstays which ironic i have heard the democrats saying most of terrorists are coming through our airports but not through the southern border yet they took the president to the court when he did travel ban. they said we need to focus on visa overstays. they voted against visa overstays last time. we did come up with a merit-based path to allow legal status, green card status to stay in this country, but yet the democrats voted against that last year. so i really don't know where the middle ground is because the rhetoric we're hearing from the left is the opposite of the action that we're seeing now. >> congressman, steve forbes here. the president made that address the other day, but with daca he only talked about three years. why doesn't he just go the whole distance and say they can have

complete legalization, throw h 1 b visas on the table? the tunnel across the hudson, access to the capital of the world, new york, and put something -- bold things like that on the table and say the democrats stand in the way, the base may not be too happy, but by golly the country would be behind him saying this solves it. it would be a big deal. why doesn't he go the whole distance, the president, put her in a corner? talking about pelosi. >> yeah, i mean, that's a good point, steve. in fact my staff and i were having that very conversation on the way over here. of course he is going to lose some of the base as he does that, but, you know, he's a business owner. he's a construction man. and he's looking at an end goal, i think, which is from where we are, what is not just the policy, there's the politics. i think nancy is playing politics. he's balancing politics and policy saying what is my end goal? i want to get the border secure. i actually want to get some physical barriers. i actually want more judges

there. so it may be that that's something forthcoming is he's laying it out a little at a time to try to see what is the tipping point to where maybe we can get somebody to come over to the white house or meet with the vice president here at the capital. maybe it's time for mr. hoyer to just step up and some of the others in leadership, if nancy is not going to do it, to step forward and say look we're at least willing to start negotiating here. >> hi, congressman. the state of our union seems bonkers right now. are republicans trying to have it both ways here? when they talk about the state of the union, they say let's follow the rules and let's not attach it to the shutdown. i agree. i like following the rules. when it comes to funding the government, they say let's attach this wall deal to funding the government. why do they need to be attached. if the wall is such a great idea, let's have a clean discussion about that and fund the government in the meantime? >> because that discussion will never happen. this isn't just about a political victory, as i was talking about.

this is actually about a humanitarian crisis, a national security crisis that for a long time we've been trying to work on trying to get to. if you go back in history, ronald reagan made that kind of deal. look, we'll go ahead and give you what you want, if we can secure the border afterwards, and you never got to border security. this is something that the majority of american people do want border security. the president being able to speak directly to the american people i think is going to shift public opinion, and i think that's one of the reasons speaker pelosi didn't want that to happen, but i think she set it up now to where the majority of americans are going to be listening at whatever point the president decides to give his address. >> congressman, this is scott martin. what about the economic impact here, though, putting, say, some of these americans in jeopardy, especially some of the economic data that's coming out now, some of the projections that are showing gdp may be being impacted, maybe job growth, certainly consumer sentiment. at what point does congress say

okay, we have enough of an economic impact here and we need to get something done? >> i think it may be a while down the road simply because we know the people that are working right now it is terrible. they are working without being paid currently, but they are going to be paid. >> not the contractors, congressman, not the contractors. >> and you are exactly right. so there is going to be an impact, but also the general wisdom is that when we do get this turned around, you are going to see a rebound. and i don't think it will be a long-term impact, but any impact is going to have an effect. look, we have some contractors in georgia that are being affected right now with not being able to be paid which means they are not able to pay their employees. so i desperately want to see this thing come to an end. >> congressman, is there something that democrats can offer that you would just have to sign off on? maybe they throw billions and billions more money at border security. would that be something republicans could side with? >> well, i think if you can put

some money in border security, that's fine, but when you look at it, physical barriers, and we're not talking about a wall across the entire border. it is in selective points that those who work on the border, the border security agents, law enforcement has said this is where we need additional barriers. look, i've made several visits to the border, and we have been told this time and time again over the past several years, we need additional physical barriers. this is a key component to getting it done. i'm not for spending billions and billions of more dollars to do that. i'm about spending american taxpayers' money wisely and smartly and in an area that will actually provide security. and so i think it is a real simple solution. come to the table. sit down. let's get some money for border security. let's get some money for physical barriers. limit it to those particular areas, but i'm not so sure how sincere they are because a few moments ago we had a bill on the floor, the republicans presented a bill that would pay the employees, just pay the employees, for this month, and the democrats voted that down.

>> congressman, do we have an estimate of how much the final cost of the wall would be? because we're talking about 5 billion right now, right? that's been the center of the argument. is there any sort of cost estimates for what the final wall would be and how would you get there? >> well, i think a lot of that depends on we get the portion of the barrier built. we put the technology, and we get the additional law enforcement and the judges down there to see the impact it has, go back to tex perts -- the experts and say is what we have there now working adequately? are there other areas that we need to improve? i think we need to take away some of the physical barriers we have now and replace with the slat barrier which is far superior of what we have. that's determined on the effectiveness we have on border security. right now 5.7 billion is what we need to just hit those hot points, the key points that are the most dangerous and that help us to actually build focal points for the illegal criminal activities that are down there to get our law enforcement there

to do the apprehension, stop the drugs, stop the weapons, stop the criminal activity. >> congressman, the state of the union which the president will do, is he going to have people -- victims of human trafficking to show and display to the american people, and the human face of what happens when we don't control our borders? >> you know, from what i've seen from the last two addresses he's done to congress, i believe he probably would have those there, which is another reason which i think he's probably not going to be given the venue here at the house chambers to give it, but i do think that he will have those because we've had several angel families in the last couple of weeks coming to washington, d.c. i met with some of them. i've spoken with them. and they are someone you have to listen to because their families have been irreversibly affected by illegal immigration. but again, i go back to this isn't just about immigration. it is about national security as well. and i think -- look, we have the mercedes-benz dome in atlanta

which is prepped right now for the super bowl. homeland security is already there. we've already got it secured. that would be a perfect venue for the president to come to atlanta, this coming tuesday, before the super bowl. >> good idea. >> it is ready. >> don't invite the new orleans saints. >> would you settle for the halftime show? [laughter] >> as long as they don't bring the refs in. okay? [laughter] >> not a terrible idea. congressman, thank you very much for your time this evening. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. as home sales sink, there are new reports that more lenders are turning to unconventional mortgages, but aren't those risky home loans what triggered a financial crisis in the first place a decade ago? how is it any different this time around? we will debate that, next. so with a nationwide annuity, you can get protected monthly income for the rest of your life. that's what i'm talking about.

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>> home sales tumbling in december to their lowest level in three years. lenders are now turning to unconventional mortgages to help borrowers with unusual circumstances, including those who can't provide standard proofs of income. so we ask, have we learned anything from the past, the financial crisis? what do you guys think? >> we never learn -- in lending we never learn anything from the past. all lending tends towards lousy credit quality over time. what happens is loans are standard things. it is hard to compete. i mean the rate is the rate. the terms are the terms. what do banks do when they want to gain share? they dip down and borrow over quality. the good news here is these unconventional loans are only about 3% of the market. i don't think we're setting up for some sort of systemic blow-up. they should have learned and haven't quite learned. >> it is not any fun guys if we don't have a little excess here and there. i will tell you what else is helping us is the fact that a lot of homes have not quite recovered from the 2006, 2007

highs and subsequent drop in financial crisis. a lot of home prices haven't bounced back up, as i said. so the lack of say this reappreciation that hey, chip off a piece of your house and take it down to the bank and get a bag of cash, those days are long gone. they are probably staying gone because housing to me looks like it is flattening out. >> i was just talking to a mortgage lender, and he said oh i just did an unconventional loan yesterday. it is happening all the time now. it is increasing. he says you have to put a higher down payment as a result of having to prove your income in other ways, like showing one to two years of bank statements, for instance. >> this will really sort of test the theory of dodd frank, of the consumer protection, all of these regulations and all these things that we've put in place to supposedly prevent this from ever happening again, from ever having a financial crisis happen again. we'll see, you know, if government intervention and regulation really does work. you probably can tell i have some skepticism in my voice. >> two things should have been

done, one is why haven't we denationalized fannie mae and freddie mac. the other thing is start focusing on state and local levels on regulations. they make it impossible to build affordable housing. in this town, new york city, impossible. you have 10 people in manhattan living in a single apartment. >> only when you're in your 20s, steve, come on. >> well, i'm still in my 20s -- yeah, right. by my counting and washington's counting. you attack those two things, no more government backstop and start focusing on regulations with this administration is willing to do, boom, housing problem gone. >> that's the dangerous game, though. is the government really out of this? we fannie and freddie, let's say, guys, hey another 2008 like financial crisis walks up, the federal reserve has talked about the stress tests. is the government really out of these banks business if they go down the road they did in 07, 08? i don't think so. >> if you denationalize, sell

off freddie and fannie, sell them off, the private companies know they won't have access to the treasury anymore, they might behave a little differently. >> i feel the term unconventional mortgages is a little bit kind of tame. you haven't proven you can pay your mortgage, we're going to make you a loan. it's like me saying i want to sell you some sushi that's been on the shelf an unconventional length of time. are you interested? that doesn't sound appealing. >> what about treasury secretary mnuchin, when the market was freaking out about interest rates and all of a sudden, you know, christmas eve, he makes this call to all the guys in the banks and say hey is everybody okay? do you guys need anything for christmas? the federal reserve, the treasury, they are all in this together. they are all backstopping the banks if something else like that happens, i'm telling ya. >> have faith in free markets. it will solve the problems. there are plenty of countries with higher homeownership than

we have and they don't have all these apparatuses in place. chaos in venezuela as protests erupt across the country, calling for the ouster of the president as a new leader emerges. next you will hear from the vice president mike pence, sitting down with trish regan this afternoon on what he thinks needs to be done right now. >> the united states is going to continue to bring the full weight of our economic and diplomatic pressure until freedom and democracy and fair elections are restored to the people of venezuela. alerts -- wouldn't you like one from the market when it might be time to buy or sell? with fidelity's real-time analytics, you'll get clear, actionable alerts

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thousands protesting in

venezuela today against president nicolas maduro as the u.s. is now officially supporting the new interim president. trump tweeting this message earlier, quote, the citizens of venezuela have suffered for too long at the hands of the maduro regime. today i have officially recognized the president of the venezuelan national assembly as the interim president of venezuela. our trish regan just sat down with vice president mike pence for an exclusive interview. here's what he says about the country's new leader. roll the tape. >> 3 million venezuelans have fled their country because of deprivation and oppression and poverty. 2 million more are expected to flee venezuela in the next year alone. the country is literally a failed state. and what president guido represents is a new beginning

for the people of venezuela. >> what lessons have we learned here? >> this is an incredibly tough situation where you are seeing people for many years now starving on the streets in venezuela. people were asking me earlier is this regime change? this is not any sort of american-led intervention here. what this is the president rightfully standing by the people of venezuela, you know, for freedom, for the ability at this point to just to even eat and feed their children. it is an incredibly dire situation. if we look back beyond just having a rogue dictator here, recognizing his competition ahead of the national assembly, what's really going on here is a larger gee political struggle -- geopolitical struggle between the u.s. and china. china gets a lot of their oil from venezuela. the chinese hold a lot of venezuelan debt. what you are seeing the chinese want us out of the theater. they are more than happy to have the influence in venezuela.

they probably don't want to see a leader emerge that will be pro democracy and pro america. >> there's something called the monroe doctrine, no interference in the american hemisphere. we have to start enforcing that and one way to do it is bring this regime down, cut off their access to banking, cut their ability even more to sell oil, identify those offices of bank accounts and start seizing them. by the way, the far left has an apology to make. let me read this quote from bernie sanders back in 2011. he says these days the american dream is more apt to be realized in south america and places such as ecuador, venezuela and argentina where incomes are more equal than they are in the u.s. who is the banana republic now? he called the u.s. the banana republic. are you going to apologize bernie sanders? i doubt it.

>> why don't you embargo the oil? >> all of the above. >> they have a crash in crude prices too, through the line of scrimmage say you know what? embargo their oil. if the crude price rallies a couple more bucks, big deal. we have our oil game together anyway. >> i think one of the reasons why we probably haven't done that, i know the treasury we have sanctioned and we have looked at a range of options, the underlying issue in all of this is that the venezuelan military still supports maduro. maduro clearly keeps them fat and happy and paid. -- >> that's how you get them. >> potentially, but you always don't want to exacerbate a human catastrophe. i think what the president did today was incredibly important. in 2009 when the iranian people stood up against their government, president obama did not recognize the legitimacy in a forceful way, in a way that president trump is doing today. so he gets a lot of credit for it. but i think we have a delicate balance here where you already

have millions of venezuelan refugees are going into columbia. anything we do here needs to work hand in hand with columbia, with our allies and with our allies in the region but especially columbia because they are the ones that will have to bear the brunt of the human catastrophe. >> if we start identifying them, saying we know who you are, you have a chance to get amnesty, you will be arrested one way or the other as a war criminal, that's how you undermine the military, go after their soft spot, the corruption. >> you asked at the start what lessons have we learned from venezuela? it is a failed state full stop. now what lessons are we going to pretend that we learned? wait until you begin to hear it. any time someone across america wants so much as expand a school lunch program, my republican friends are going to say haven't you been looking at what's going on in venezuela? it is not an either or choice. there are more than two choices in the world. >> there's also regional security that has to be dealt with. those 5 million refugees, this mass exodus of venezuelans who are living in poverty, living in fear, where do they go?

how do they work? they often get involved in crime, whether it's human trafficking, drugs, and that is something that we have to worry about. >> illegal mining is also taking place there. don't forget, terrorism, there were 21 colombians killed by a far left terror group that maduro protects and also safe harbor in cuba. we are seeing venezuela and cuba, really at this point state sponsor of terrorism. that's what senator rubio described. >> maduro's response to all of this was to break sanctions with the u.s., to break relations, i'm sorry, to break relations. we do still have sanctions on them. >> of course. >> giving the diplomats 72 hours to leave the country. what happens now? do we have the answer to that? >> no, we don't. and lauren, that's the thing too. i think that's interesting is that's why you've got to do something different going forward. as morgan pointed out, this kind of regime, this kind of attitude from the u.s. alone has allowed things to deteriorate.

you have to change the formula here. >> well, that means giving assistance to the dissidents. we did that in east central europe during the cold war in the 80s, especially solidarity in poland. go after their bank accounts. cut them off from all the global banking system, the swiss system. there are various measures you can take. columbia which is getting the brunt of this would be gladly on our side. all of latin america, they don't want to go to the way of venezuela and fear it. have to make measures with cuba, main stay of oppressive security inside venezuela >> more on this tonight on trish regan's show. a victory over obama care this afternoon, but a new poll shows what the american people want more. >> we reduced average premiums on the federal obama care exchanges for the first time in the history of the horrible

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breaking news, just coming the now, more clear evidence that this partial government shutdown may be far from over. we're now getting this from chief of staff mick mulvaney. the white house seeking a list of programs from agency leaders

that would be hurt if the shutdown lasts into march or april. he's asking for this list, no later than friday. so it continues. >> we're working very hard to get those -- the pricing down as we really do things that are going to make it much better and ultimately it will result probably in the court case termination and we'll all get together and come up with real healthcare. >> that was president trump this afternoon at the white house discussing the hidden costs of healthcare and ways to lower prices and make costs more transparent for patients. today we got a new study by the kaiser family foundation that shows the majority of americans support a single payer healthcare plan in theory. so how should the president and republicans react to this, which is certainly going to be a 2020 campaign issue? panel? >> well, i think first of all the republicans should have a plan. they haven't had a plan since --

in eight years. i mean the failure of the past two years of a republican-led congress was somehow you campaign for eight years on repealing and replacing obama care and they haven't done it. i think that the republican party deserves a lot of criticism for this, for not having developed a plan, and i still haven't seen anything else on the table. i think our colleague here might have a good one. scott? >> it should be easy, though, guys. if you want to refute that which by the way of that 56%, i believe 100% of them couldn't explain how to pay for it. that's the big problem too going forward. even 8 out of 10 dentists surveyed don't know how to pay for it f. you go to the most -- if you go to the most onerous tax policies, you still can't pay for medicare for all. look at the aca, look at the increased costs with healthcare that say access to health plans that people lost, access to doctors, all the things that happened that were promised to us that didn't happen. >> i agree with you on it. i still don't see how the republicans are winning the message war on this.

going into the midterms healthcare to many people's surprise was actually what was rated as one of the most important issues for voters that voted out the house republicans. >> being an accountant is not going to win the argument. what we have to point out is what they are proposing is healthcare for fewer people. if you're older, you're not going to get that operation you wanted in a timely manner. you're not going to get the kidney transplant you need. you're not going to get a lot of things. so it's healthcare for less. and then you hit on the fact, don't you want to be able to control your own healthcare? and there are ways to do it. take lasik surgery for the eyes. costs less today than it did 15 years today. why? because you weren't tied with third party payers. >> the scary cost proposition is the system we already have. we spend 20% of gdp in this country by the time we talk about federal spending, healthcare premiums, out of pockets. other rich countries spend 11, 12 percent and they get better health outcome. we're already doing it in the worst possible ways. >> it is not the quality of healthcare in those countries.

they just limit it. so if you need kidney dialysis, you're above the age of 60, you i don't get it. -- you don't get it. they put a cap on it. and medicare here is subsidized tens of billions of dollars. >> that's right. >> it's already up and working. it has done better than other parts of the healthcare system in containing costs. people who are using medicare like it. i'm not saying that's the plan. i'm saying -- >> if you have very few effective measure against fraud which insurance companies have to have you get subsidized. the most popular part of medicare is medicare advantage where you go to private companies instead of the traditional medicare. again, free markets would work. >> steve, why has the republican party failed for almost ten years to articulate the vision that you just laid out in two minutes? >> because they don't understand for all their rhetoric what free markets are like. we have an insane system where you cover things like you need a band-aid, if you need to water your lawn, you don't go to your insurance company, your

homeowner's insurance company to fill up your lawnmower. >> steve needs to run for president -- >> have free markets -- the u.s. consumers now lay out 400 billion dollars a year for healthcare. so you're starting to see the rise of real consumer markets, more transparency on pricing, and it is going to happen like uber did with taxis. it is going to come not from the politicians, but from consumers. >> yeah. >> tech innovation. >> you bet. >> we've got to go. but drug prices and what's being done there is another element to this whole conversation. well, climate change front and center in davos. so why are there record number of private planes there this year? just jetting in. so i got an offer on the business, and now i'm thinking... i'd like to retire early. oh, that's great sarah. let's talk about this when we meet next week.

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commercial flight. >> it was not in coach. >> i wanted to leave it fresh for you. but i think what this underscores is the hypocrisy. al gore does the same thing. he says he has offsets. it's the equivalent of the catholic church selling indulgences. >> i stayed home from davos because of all those private jets and mostly because i was told i'm not important enough to get invited. but mostly the jets. >> on the old aircraft, in 20 years everyone will have their own access to that kind of aircraft with open markets.

>> can you take me for a ride? i'll bring the champagne. that does it for "bulls and bears." thank you for joining us and thank you to the panel. have a great night. president trump: the state of the union speech has been canceled by nancy pelosi because she doesn't want to hear the truth. she doesn't want the american public to hear what's going on. >> there are serious and justified concerns that he'll shutdown the government any time he doesn't get his way. president trump: she is afraid of the truth, the american people have to hear the truth. we were planning on doing a very important speech. nancy he localsy doesn't want to hear -- nancy pelosi doesn't want to hear the