said that. key part of this discussion. reporter: secretary, do you favor government contractors furloughed also getting back pay? >> i'm not sure how -- some of them do. i think defense related ones. i'm not expert on that. i have to go and check that. i have to take a look at scope of it. i honestly don't know. reporter: want to get back to the cbo, they also looked at sections over the next decade said the deficit for fiscal year 19 will be roughly 900 billion. starting in 2022, year after year after year after that. 2029, 93% debt to gdp. they say it is simply unsustainable the path we're on. does the white house agree with that? if it is unsustainable, is the white house planning to do anything to change it? >> you know we have a fundamental disagreement with that agency regarding the growth

outlook. economic growth is the single biggest factor in compiling any of these numbers. so, they have had a very low growth estimate in response to trump policies on taxes and deregulation, and we have had a much higher one, about one percentage point differential more or less. we're at three, they're at two. more or less. the differential over 10 years is very significant. could be as much as 3 1/2 trillion dollars. and deficit reduction if we are right. all i'm saying is, that in the first two years of the trump administration our view has essentially been correct and their pessimistic essentially been not correct. now again, i'm not here to, you know rail on against cbo. they have a point of you have. we have a different point of view. they're professionals. we respect that. that is the substantial difference.

one other thing we anticipate a strong tough budget on spending. president talked about this, at least 5% reduction in non-defense accounts across the board. i think that will help. finally my own view has always been, economic growth is absolutely essential to reducing the deficit share of gdp which is the burden on the economy. and if you look at our numbers which are moving somewhat but not enormously, we anticipated a much lower deficit share of gdp and that is probably another reason we disagree. reporter: thank you, larry. today both caterpillar and nvidia said a slowdown in demand in china is negatively affecting their businesses. is the administration worry they're putting too much pressure on the chinese economy and boomerang, that would impact the u.s. economy, a slowdown there could spread to a slow down here? >> look, the kind of trade

openings that we're talking about, and other structural factors are all pro-growth, everyone of them. if, the trade negotiations, you know, turn out postively insofar lower barriers let's say and, you know, much better treatment of private property rights and as steve mnuchin said before, very important, ended forced transfer of technology, things like that. we will export, i believe this strong i also, the united states, give our people the chance to sell the to china we will export a ton. our export sales will roar, roar. it will be much greater if they open their markets. that is going to help china's economy. it will help our economy. i always believed that. and you know, the question is fairness and reciprocity as president emphasizeed i completely agree. it is also a matter of economic growth, lower barriers, united

states in my judgment is the most competitive economy in the world today. we're the hottest economy and most competitive economy. i think that davos survey pushed us back to the number one spot, proud of that. so, the china talks, what is at stake here, i think is, you know the possibility of spreading prosperity, frankly, in both countries, all right? along with the need to make, legal reforms and reciprocal reforms. time for one more? yes. reporter: you talked a moment ago about our people -- >> yes. reporter: end of three weeks, february 14th, 15th, if there is no deal will you counsel the president not to shut the government down again? >> i don't want to make any comments on that. we'll see what happens as i said before. there's a process. that's, see if it works. not my place. thank you.

appreciate it very much. >> thank you. tough group to follow but i will give it my best shot. john, go ahead. >> thank you, sarah, is the president really willing to go through another shut down if he can't get any money out of the democrats for the border wall? >> the president doesn't want to go through another shutdown. that is not the goal. the goal is border security, protecting the american people. ideally democrats would take three weeks to negotiate in good faith and they indicate they would, come up with a deal that make essence, that fixes the problem. sew we don't have to go through the process. >> what do you make of republicans like rob portman a shutdown should be taken off the table, basically that the shutdown can never be an option in the future? would the president support that. >> i'm not getting into the hypotheticals of taking that off the table. i haven't seen a piece of legislation, for to us even

consider at this point, that would make that reality, but what i do know is that the president is committed to fixing the problem and it is pretty simple. we have three weeks to work with democrats as the president has indicated on a number of occasions they could get it done in 15 minutes. we agree on the fundamentals that border security is important. we agree the fact there is a problem. we should do something about it. spend time over next few weeks, get it done. the president opened the government on the basis that democrats have signaled to us they're willing to actually get serious about a real deal and get serious about fixing the problem at the border, including funding for a border wall. reporter: proposals for protecting the dreamer children, some of the other con sessions he made in his immigration speech, are those still on the table? >> look, i will not negotiate here. that is why they have conferences for congressional members to work through those things, come back with a deal. the president laid out things in

the past there are will be to do, see what they come back. if they don't come back with a deal, democrats get virtually nothing that will make the president, force him to have to take executive action that does not give democrats the things they want. this is the perfect time, the table has been perfectly set by the president in order for a good deal to come together where everybody gets a little bit of something they're looking for. josh? reporter: the president described illegal immigration as perilous threat an taking american workers jobs. can you explain why the president hired an ememployed so many undocumented immigrants for years and didn't do more to prevent them from staying employed and working there? >> look, i can't get into specifics about the president's organization outside of the white house. i'm only allowed to speak on president in his official capacity. i do know that the trump organization has put out a statement addressing that issue. i would refer you to that and to them for further questions. reporter: what does the

president think should to a business that employs illegal immigrants and doesn't use systems to check to make sure they're not -- >> one of the reasons the president wants to fix the problem. he is one of the people that identified the fact we have a problem and we should fix our immigration system. if democrats want to get serious about fixing that they have a president that is more than happy to sit down with him and do exactly that. jonathan. reporter: i know so little about this, let me ask a couple questions. >> at least we're in agreement on something. joke. everybody settle down. reporter: senator joe manchin said yesterday if the president were to move further on daca and offer at least a path of status, if not a path to citizenship likely get pour democrats to come to his idea about need for border barrier. president has been resistant going any further offering more than three years of more protections. what is the reason why the president doesn't believe daca recipients should have a path?

>> i will not negotiate up here. that is the reason that we're going into conference -- reporter: why he doesn't believe or deserve should have a path to status? >> again i'm not going into get into negotiating immigration reform up here. that is why we have the conference. why the president asked this take place over next three weeks. whether or not that happens during this time and that happens, focus is border security. we would like to see that happen. the president would love to dieth with the overall problem of illegal immigration, fixing a number of loopholes that would prevent some of those things from happening so we can move for word a system that actually functions. congratulations, welcome back. >> thank you. >> you look more well--rested than you should. reporter: is white house going to have a representative in these meetings, conference committee? >> i'm not aware of a specific white house attendee that would participate. certainly we'll be engaged with members across the board, both

those that are part of the conference as well as the back and forth that will take place before and after. reporter: what is your data point -- >> we'll keep you posted when the white house is in attendance. reporter: what is data point on idea that democrats are ready, as you say get serious about immigration reform? what is signal is president specifically seeing from democrats -- >> a number of democrats have both publicly stated support of border security, including a wall, including barriers. we've had a lot of private conversations which democrats signaled their willingness if the government is open to sit down and negotiate. the president is taking them at their word. hopes that they will negotiate in good faith, we hope that we'll see that happen. reporter: thanks, sarah. steven miller quoted saying in the if not a single refugee ever again touched american soil. is the policy of immigration get ref bee resettlement down to zero? >> i'm not aware of any statement like that stephen

miller ever made, certainly not the policy of the administration. reporter: is president having a physical exam soon? >> the president will as always undergo a yearly physical exam. we'll keep you posted on date and time when that happens. april. reporter: two questions. one i want to go back to what darlene asked -- [inaudible]. can this economy sustain another -- >> mind speaking up, i'm sorry? reporter: going back to what darlene, asked mr. kudlow. can this economy sustain with another government shutdown? >> again, as i told jonathan, we don't want another government shut down. we want a deal that actually addresses border security. seems like it should be so simple. we're all in agreement we need it. we're all in agreement there is a problem. so we need to fix it. reporter: can the economy, larry kudlow was very hopeful and optimistic, even though the numbers show otherwise -- >> the numbers don't show otherwise. the numbers show we have

incredibly strong economy. the numbers show jobs continue to grow, waynes continue to rise, unemployment continues to drop. the numbers are very much in the favor of the things that larry laid out. again do we want another shutdown? no. but the president and his team have focused on long-term economic stability, long-term economic fundamentals and we think if we had to we could sustain that, but certainly we don't want to. that not the goal. go ahead. reporter: so there are several people that are now indicted that have some kind of connection to either the campaign of the president. have these people tried to make contact with the president via mayor mutual friend? >> i'm not aware of any contacts from those individuals. john? reporter: thanks a lot, sarah. on the state of the union address that was supposed to take place tomorrow night i know that house speaker pelosi said that she would extend an invitation to the president once the government has reopened. it has reopened. has she extended an invitation

to the president? do you believe, sarah, that she is acting in good faith in this regard? >> i don't think she acted in good faith on the front end considering she cited security concerns that didn't exist. we are hopeful moving forward into the future she will. president as he always does looks forward to addressing the american people. we'll do that as soon as that invitation is received. reporter: if i could, sarah, could you expect her to extend and invitation to the president in the course of this three-week window while negotiations are on going? >> that is better question for speaker pelosi. reporter: thank you, sarah. you're not exactly ruling out another shutdown and many federal workers who came back today are concerned that there could be another shutdown. what is your advice or message to them in this three weeks, maybe saving their money? should they be concerned they might not get another paycheck so soon? >> my advice would be call democrat members of congress ask

them to fix the problem so we don't have to continue having this process. so that we actually secure the border and protect american citizens. steve? reporter: sarah, the president tweeted over the weekend that said he made no concessions whatsoever. i flew wednesday conservatives saying that he has made concessions because he originally said he would not sign any legislation that did not include money for the border wall and then he went ahead and did that granted it only keeps government open for next three weeks. he said he wouldn't do that either. how can the president say he made absolutely no concessions to democrats on legislation. >> because the negotiations are still on going. i would argue that conservatives that have influence supported the president throughout this process. they believe in border security. they believe in protecting americans. just like the president and they stand with him. again, this is a simple fix. it is easy for democrats to sit down and come to an agreement and work with us to get border

security. john? reporter: thank you, sarah. the president has spoken increasingly of declaring a state of emergency after february 15th and using funds already there for the building of the wall under the aegis of national security and homeland security. several conservatives who are normally supporters of the president warn not to go into that direction. that it would create too many problems with federal authority interceding with state authority. president bush in 2005 wouldn't declare a state of emergency over katrina because he did not want to get into that argument with governors. has the president considered this and criticisms and warnings of fellow republicans, notably senator blount of missouri? >> certainly the president listens to members of congress as well as constituents across

the country but the president's number one duty and number one responsibility he sees as commander-in-chief is protecting the american people. he sees the crisis at the border to be a real one. i don't think anybody in the country can argue the fact there is real problem at our border. it needs to be fixed. the president will do what it takes to address it. reporter: i want to ask but the shutdown. has the president ruled out a pardon for roger stone? i haven't been aware of that. haven't had any discussions. reporter: will you let us know. >> i won't get into that at this point. if need being we'll let you know. reporter: president argued he would use executive authority, he used that option many times in the rose garden. why would he wait three weeks to declare it? >> it is real simple. president has side, most of us in the administration said on number of fronts the best fix to do it legislatively.

but if congress, particularly democrats in congress would rather play political games than actually do their jobs, fix the problem the president will be forced to take a differ path. again ideally that doesn't happen. we'll see what happens. reporter: emergency or not an emergency. you can't have half of a emergency? >> you're missing the point. it is not just an emergency, it is a crisis at border. both national security and humanitarian crisis. but there is a process in which the president wants to exhaust all options primarily doing what we feel is the best one, which is legislative fix. but if congress doesn't do their job, then the president will be forced to make up for all of their shortcomings. major. reporter: two questions, sarah. you talked about what you will not negotiate. would i like to ask you, $5.7 billion request from the president non-negotiable. >> again i'm not going to negotiate from here. that is the whole point of the conference is to iron out those details and come back to the president with a deal. reporter: [inaudible] >> at the end of the day the

biggest thing has to happen there has to be real and adequate funding for border security including funding for a wall and we'll see what the conference comes back with. reporter: number possibly less than 5.7 billion? >> major i'm not negotiating with you. that is not my role. my job is to communicate where we are in the process. right now we're in the process of letting the conference do its job negotiate, a deal come back to the president. [shouting questions] reporter: two questions, if i may. first on the government shutdown. the president made several, he made sell promises to families particularly those affected by crimes committed by illegal immigrants, that they would have a wall at end of this government shutdown, at end of this promise. can he maintain the promise to those families there will be a wall on the southern border by end of his first term? >> as you know the president and his administration have engaged and built roughly, 100 or contracted to build

115 million miles of border. this three-week package that passed democrats voted for including 200 million of dollars for funding for the wall. president will not stop until the border is secure and having a border wall. reporter: another question on afghanistan. there is talk in again afghanistan about the u.s. envoy pull u.s. forces out and garrity by the taliban there would not be terrorists in country. does the plan have support of president and would that plan be a victory for united states after almost 17 years there? >> our priority is to end the war in afghanistan and insure there is never a base for terrorism in afghanistan again. negotiations are going to continue for anything specific. i can't get into that right now. refer you to the state department. reporter: sarah, thank you. just a follow-up quickly on your answer to halle. i'm not aware of that when asked if the president ruled out a pardon for roger stone. does that mean he hasn't ruled out a pardon? >> again i'm not aware of any

conversation even regarding that or a need for it. reporter: sarah, follow it up, can you guarranty the president won't pardon roger stone? >> i won't talk about hypotheticals that are ridiculous of things i haven't talked about. reporter: [inaudible] >> i never thought i would be shutting down one reporter to go to jim acosta. here we are. >> said over the weekend, sarah -- considered -- [inaudible]. >> sorry i didn't hear the last part? reporter: marco rubio said over the weekend working with wikileaks should be considered a crime? does the president agree? >> i think every single outlet that you all represent looked for and searched for information that wikileaks was provided including reporting on it. so i think there is responsibility by members of media. i'm not aware of anybody here ever working with wikileaks in any capacity. but i do know that every individual that represents media organization here looked for

that information. most of you reported on that information. so i think you're just as accountable as anybody else in that process. go ahead. reporter: if i can jump in. roger stone last week, paul manafort, michael cohen, michael flynn, are you concerned, is the president concerned as more and more of his associates, former aides are brought into this investigation, are indicted, plead guilty in this investigation that this presidency is in danger? >> not at all. in fact nothing could be further from the truth. the more that this goes on the more and more we see none of these things have anything to do with the president. in roger stone's case the charges of that indictment have literally nothing to do with the president. it has to do with his communications with congress. so in fact the further we get into the process the more and more we see that this has nothing to do with president trump. reporter: follow up on that if i may. can you assure the american

people during these conversations that roger stone had with wikileaks any individuals tied to the dumping of that material, at no time the president had any interactions with roger stone? that nobody close to the president had interactions with roger stone, who may have told the president what was going on in those conversations? all of this when it comes to roger stone is complete surprise to the president? he didn't know about any of this, is that what you're saying? >> what i can tell you is that the president did nothing wrong throughout this process and charges of the indictment against mr. stone have absolutely nothing to do with the president. take one last question, steve. reporter: sarah, we're expecting few moments u.s. government will announce criminal actions against huawei, the chinese telecom company and we're just about to have this chinese delegation here. are these two at all linked? are you taking some sort of carrot-and-stick approach with china? what is the strategy here?

>> no, those two things are not linked. they're a totally separate process. the negotiations on the trade front will continue to be on going and on that, i believe on that other question, anything that you mentioned may be coming they're waiting on me to finish so they can do that. with that i will say good afternoon. see you next time. thanks, guys. connell: all right, a lengthy press briefing in the white house briefing room wrapping up there with sarah sanders. the headline came at the beginning. we had sanctions announced against the venezuelan oil company. melissa: a lot of things came out of the gate. things impacting oil markets and foreign policy. from there we got larry kudlow. he made a lot of comments about the shut down and the economic impact saying he will not confirm the numbers coming out of the cbo but saying he thought our economy was very strong, going, et cetera. finally sarah sanders took to

the podium. connell: she was asked, as we expected would be about the shutdown. didn't rule out another shutdown when the next deadline of 15th of february comes up. the questioning veering off to the mueller investigation. roger stone. a lot of time to. let's get markets closed up and when we had a selloff throughout the day on wall street. all three major averages ending in the red. with the china tray concerns out there, global growth fears out there, we came off the lows. the dow closing down 208. it was down 400 plus early in the session. not bad at all, when you look at that perspective, s&p 500, nasdaq also in negative territory, snapping a three-day up streak. the s&p down 21. nasdaq down by 79. good to have you with us as we come on here after the news conference. i'm connell mcshane. melissa: i'm melissa francis. this is "after the bell." let's go straight to deirdre bolton on the floor of the new york stock exchange. tell us about today's trade.

>> you called it. we closed lower. our viewers can see the red on the screens but the silver lining is we did close off session lows but it was really earnings from two companies that dictated sentiment. you had caterpillar before the opening saying that they missed their fourth quarter earnings estimates and then also saying for the rest of this year their earnings would be in a slightly lower range than what wall street was expecting. so you had caterpillar, really all the industrials really weighing on the dow. between boeing and caterpillar, essentially at one point, that was worth about half of the points down on the dow. you also heard from nvidia. that really affected sentiment for tech stocks. the company essentially saying the same thing caterpillar said. earnings was disappointing, guidance was disappointing. the main reason weakness from asia pac. and china. you had a lot of weight on the technology shares at one point as well. caterpillar, 3m.

unh was half of the dow's losses. huge earnings week. 25% of the s&p 500 companies will be posting a big day tomorrow for apple and tech. back to you guys in the studio. melissa: deirdre, thank you. thank you. deal or no deal, u.s. markets reacting to u.s.-china high level trade negotiations. the pressure piling up on both sides to cut a deal before the march deadline when tariffs could hit 25%. edward lawrence has been following the story very closely. edward, what's the latest on this? reporter: wednesday will be a very big day. the chinese vice premier is on his way to d.c. his plane has taken off from beijing. face-to-face meetings scheduled for wednesday and thursday with u.s. trade representative robert lighthizer. treasury secretary steve mnuchin also on the team to get a deal. >> let me remind people, we do have another 30 days after this. so my expectation is, that we'll make significant progress at these meetings. i would emphasize these are

complicated issues. we have a timeline how we mapped out the 90 days. reporter: china has been dangling buying one trillion dollars worth of goods over six years but the u.s. trade representative concerned that china will not follow through with it and also he wants to make sure structural changes are made in china. the u.s. wants china to protect companies intellectual property as well as open market access. the u.s. trade representative wants to put in writing punishment if the chinese fail to follow through. china experts say the fact is we're pretty far along in this process. they are coming here. therefore this is a positive note. back to you, melissa. melissa: edward, thank you so much. connell: let's go to our market panel. kevin kelly benchmark investments managing partner. we're also joined by jeffrey cline top, charles schwab senior vice president. jeff, let me start with you on china. we have a lot as edward says with trade talks this week. we expect the huawei charges out of the deep of justice, but what we expect from u.s. companies,

what we heard from caterpillar first and nvidia, what stood out to you in the terms of the slowdown in china? >> more evidence of this dramatic slowdown. remember wasn't that long ago, apple told us about the slowdown. samsung close ad factory there in december. this is affecting a lot of different industries and this is good information coming from private companies and not the chinese government where we know we can't trust everything they say. what it is telling us there is pronounced slowdown happening in china. that is one of the reasons they're cutting corporate taxes aggressively following lead of u.s. in 2018. they cut them dramatically. in fact government revenue from taxes fell to the lowest total in 10 years in november and december. we'll see if it picks up traction in the economy. may be some time for that but the near term there is -- connell: trying to set themselves up, kevin for a soft rather than hard landing? the economy. trade talks play with that after

we hear from nvidia, you see the stock getting hammered what should we expect from these tech companies including apple. >> more of the same we've had. look at caterpillar they're showing it is not the revenue side necessarily but also the profit side their margins are compressed by higher input costs. we saw the industrials shrink. we saw 52-week high on industrial etf. they're taking their money out of industrials operators going into actually the nuts and bolts, that is the warehouses. connell: guys, thanks. we'll follow this obviously throughout the week. thanks for sticking with us through the breaking news, jeff and kevin. appreciate it. >> far from common ground, president trump casting doubt over a deal to end the standoff on border security as lawmakers from both parties try to reach a permanent agreement amid the temporary truce to keep the government open for just three weeks. so can they get it done? dan henninger,

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melissa: the white house wrapping up the first press briefing of the year just moments ago. joining me to react, dan henninger "wall street journal" editorial page deputy editor, fox news contributor. react to the fact, they came out of the gate, treasury secretary steve mnuchin. they also had former ambassador bolton out there talking about, what is going on in venezuela, the sanctions there, the impact that it will have, humanitarian crisis. they moved on to economic news with larry kudlow. then they brought out sarah sanders. she answered questions. is part of this turning the page on the shutdown situation and moving on to other business? what do you think? >> i think there is -- well, we can't really turn the page on the shutdown because, another one is looming in thee weeks, unless they can negotiate their

way out of it, i think you raise a good point, melissa. they didn't do this sanctions against the venezuela oil company simply to change the subject. melissa: right. >> that is a very serious issue there, the world is coming together against the maduro government. i think that is a real event. nonetheless i think the white house has to be aware, at least over the experience of the last several weeks with the government shutdown that that issue was beginning to overwhelm everything else they are trying to do. i myself thought that by the end of it, when we saw the scenes at the airport because of tsa -- melissa: right. >> that even the president's argument about border security was beginning to get overwhelmed and subsumed by the government shutdown. melissa: don't mean to interrupt you. we're getting breaking news right now that speaker nancy pelosi has said that she is inviting the president to give the state of the union address in the chamber on february 5th, 2019. so this was another issue

obviously related to the shutdown. putting off this state of the union address. then we heard some talking points, yes he can do it when the government is permanently open. >> right. melissa: there was some chatter. now that invitation looks like out there for february 5th. your reaction? >> well at this point nancy pelosi and donald trump are like two scorpions in a bottle trying to circle kel each other to get an edge on each other. nancy pelosi understands they were looking obstinate saying no to everything in this president. the suggestion they didn't want to give him any kind of victory or upside. so the fact she is now talking about having him come up there about the state of the union address does suggest something positive, perhaps democrats think they need to sit down do serious business with this white house. melissa: okay. dan, i'm sorry we had to cut it short. so much breaking news. we appreciate your insight.

>> sure thing. connell: open for business but waiting for payback. hundreds of thousands of federal employees returning to bork after what was the longest government shut down in history. why employees are bracing for another financial hurdle in the weeks ahead. we'll have that plus a country on edge with the uk, again. lawmakers there set to vote on number of amendments to the proposed brexit deal tomorrow. critics though say parliament is no less dive vieded. can theresa may secure a deal? we are live. like "groundhog day." we're live in london next. ♪ like a biotech firm that engineers a patient's own cells to fight cancer. this is strategic investing. because your investments deserve the full story.

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connell: brexit, brexit voting will continue until morale improves. lawmakers in the united kingdom getting set for another set of votes on brexit proposals. the uk on pace to leave the european union on the 29th of march. ashley webster, i heard this somewhere before, ashley webster is live in london with the details on all of this. hello, ashley. >> hello, connell, yes. "groundhog day." i can hear cher singing, i got you babe in the background. one of them would extend the brexit deadline. one would take a know-deal brexit option and one would change the irish backstop. very important day tomorrow as we try to move forward, as we got a warning from the british retail consortium, 200 uk-based

businesses putting out a warning if there is a no deal scenario. look, the country, united kingdom could have, food security could be at risk. you expect higher prices, empty shelves. they remind people, 30% of uk food comes from the european union that is the latest warning from british businesses, urging lawmakers not to allow a no-deal brexit. as you said, connell, march 29th. tomorrow is january 29th. two month left. we're no closer to a final deal. we'll find out what happens tomorrow. connell: i have a feeling we'll be talking to you about this time tomorrow. thank you, ash. melissa. melissa: breaking news. the u.s. justice department holding a press conference on huawei technologies, charging huawei's ceo with financial fraud. we are monitoring the event. we'll continue to give you breaking deadlines as it happens. that is a really big deal. as we said at the top of the show, they're on their way here

in the air for trade talks. connell: sarah sanders was asked about the timing of those two things, whether they were connected. she said they are not. you can't ignore that, liu he is on his way to the united states for trade talks as the doj is really going after the company, huawei. melissa: big time. connell: the shutdown is averyed but the border fight is heating up. how does president trump come out of this with a win? why one republican senator says, declaring a national emergency would be a terrible mistake. that's next. ♪ one who delivers the news around here. ♪ liberty mutual has just announced that they can customize your car insurance so that you only pay for what you need. this is phoebe buckley, on location. uh... thanks, phoebe. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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melissa: senator marco rubio warning against declareing a national emergency for border security. >> i think it would be a terrible idea. >> would you fight him on it? >> sure. it is not a good precedent to set in terms of action. doesn't mean i don't want border secure. i do.

i think that is the wrong way to achieve it. melissa: what does all this mean for the president's border wall? joining us brad blakeman, former george w. bush senior staffer, richard fowler nationally syndicated radio show host, fox news contributor. richard, another shutdown seems like not a brilliant way to go, given how the last one went. what is your take? >> not brilliant at all. i agree with marco rubio which is a rarity, melissa. the idea you would use national emergency act to build this wall where there is actually debate happening on capitol hill whether or not this wall is a good or bad thing seems to be problematic for the white house. it can only doom the president's approval rating and doom where he sets with the american people. if you talk to a lot of them, this government shutdown was horrible idea. we blame you for. >> yeah. brad, what is your take, whether a shutdown or national emergency, it doesn't seem like the president though is very interested in taking either route as of right now? >> no, but it is a tactic of the

negotiation. first of all the president can't negotiate with himself. he needs willing participants who act in good faith. so far we haven't seen that that is why there was a government shut down. going forward the president should not limit his leverage that he has to make a good deal. that includes the power to issue a declaration of a national emergency if he can make the case that one exists. so i think hamstringing the president is not a good idea. president has a lot more information than we're privy to and of course he would have to make that case if he were to invoke the power. but limiting the president's power is not a good idea coming into negotiation. melissa: richard, do you think at this point that democrats are interested in coming to the table and making any sort of a deal that includes border security and getting something they have wanted for a long time, like a permanent fix to daca? >> i think democrats are willing to make a deal. if you look at conferees

bicameral conference committee they're having first meeting as we speak, talk about drones, different things to do on the border. what is nonstarter for democrats is idea of building a wall, steel slats, whatever you want to call it. brad is right, the president has to make the case to the american people why there is national emergency, for the past 34 days, during the shutdown he failed at making that case to the american people. so i don't know how he will make it in the next weeks when he failed for the past month 1/2. melissa: brad, real quick, last word. got to go. we have so much breaking news. >> democrats were for walls before they were against it. they almost unanimously passed the secure fence act in 2006 and suddenly they are against border security. that is not going to happen. there will be a deal. melissa: we'll leave it. there. thanks, guys. >> thanks, melissa. connell: meantime democrats sounding the alarm. why the left is urging put it mildly, former starbucks ceo to stay out of the race for president as independent. we have ralph nader, knows a thing or two about this.

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- [announcer] call the hartford at. to request your free quote. that's. or go to. connell: former starbucks ceo harold schultz announcing a potential 2020 bid for president as an independent. president trump responding with the following. he doesn't have the guts to run for president, watched him on "60 minutes" last night. i agree with him that he's not the smartest person. besides, america already has that. all right. joining us now, ralph nader, former third party candidate himself as you all know. so your reaction first, ralph, to mr. schultz potentially getting in and also to those who say that by getting in, if he does, he will pretty much guarantee the re-election of donald trump. >> well, if howard schultz persists in an independent party

run, apart from the duopoly, it's going to be a nightmare for the democrats and maybe the republicans. first of all, because he's a multi billionaire, he will get mass media coverage. he has plenty of money for ads. he will be on the polls and will have a chance to get on the national debate. here's what i think he's thinking in terms of strategy. one, he will shave off votes from the republican liberal wing and from the democrat conservative wing. connell: from both sides, is what he thinks. the democrats think he will only take from them, he will re-elect trump. you don't think that's right? >> we will see what the polls say. he's got some real conservative positions like on social security and medicare. we'll see what the polls say. connell: what about you? do you ever look back on the 2000 race and say boy, i shouldn't have done it, i basically by running, made it so that george bush fwlawon floridd won the election? would you have any advice for him? >> he never won the election. gore won the election by 500,000

votes. the electoral college threw it into florida. the shenanigans all the way to the supreme court selected george w. bush. connell: would you tell schultz to run? if he wants to run, run? >> running for office is the ultimate first amendment use. petition, assembly, free speech. i will never say anyone, don't run. you can oppose them or support them but everyone has a right in america to run for election. his strategy is to create a huge center, peeling off from the republican and democrat. he has polls showing that as well as the real independents that are turned off. connell: it will be interesting if he takes from both sides. we'll see if that actually happens. you're right. we should wait for data on this before we jump to every single conclusion. >> the democrats already have jumped to conclusions. connell: i know. >> they are going to go after him. connell: big-time. >> big-time. he's going to get an idea of

what the fangs are of the two party duopoly who think they own all the voters in america. connell: you're right. they have done it already. just real quick, we had you on already today. we wanted to get your thoughts on the new congress. i know you had this proposal for ten congressional investigations that would really rock the country. we had a lot of breaking news at the start of the show so if you can, give us one or two you were thinking about. >> one is on corporate crime, fraud and abuse. the mass media has been covering it. congress has been ignoring it. the second one, on the causes of poverty. the minimum wage, the lack of health insurance, the lack of income security, et cetera. a third one will be on the planet and the environment. there hasn't been anything on that in congress under the republicans. the fourth one will be to reinterstate the office of assessment so they can advise the congress on ballistic missile boondoggles, nuclear power, he electromagnetic

attack. connell: got it. we will have you back and talk about that kind of at length when we have more time. really appreciate it. good to have you on. melissa: more breaking news from the justice department coming up after the break. i landed.

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with fidelity's real-time analytics, you'll get clear, actionable alerts about potential investment opportunities in real time. fidelity. open an account today. melissa: the justice department just hitting huawei's cfo with financial fraud. back to edward lawrence for more details on this one. edward? reporter: a 13-count indictment that was just unsealed by the justice department, this one for breaking u.s. sanctions with iran. basically, huawei lying to u.s. regulators as well as banking regulators, basically lying to the banks saying they are out of iran, yet doing dealings inside iran. also, a ten-count indictment unsealed from seattle. this one for stealing intellectual property, specifically a robot used by t-mobile in order to test cell phones. so again, these indictments unveiled, very, very interesting going forward.

more later on. back to you. melissa: thank you. connell: i.p. theft, exactly what they will be talking about in the negotiations. melissa: which goes on next week. there you go. connell: wow. all right. that does it for us. thanks for joining us. melissa: "bulls & bears" starts right now. david: there's a big fight shaping up over the so-called freebies, the democrat field for president growing with california senator kamala harris laying out her platform but a potential challenger from outside both parties could be looking to stop the free-for-all. this is "bulls & bears." thank you for joining. i'm david asman. joining me today, liz peake, zachary carabel, jonathan hoenig and gary kaltbaum. lifelong democrat and florida starbucks ceo howard schultz comes out swinging