stuart: almost a prosoccer player. almost a procricket player. am i right. >> emphasis on almost. connell: ashley might kick a puck in your direction with a quick dodge. thank you, stuart. welcome, everybody to "cavuto: coast to coast." i'm connell mcshane filling in once again for neil. a lot to do we start with stocks. things look better. market looking to extend and eight-week winning streak. walmart earnings were quite strong. if you had any concern about the american consumer, any jitters about the retail sector that may have been solved or at least eased up by walmart this morning. we'll talk a lot about that. we'll talk money and politics. the democratic field for 2020, is it moving even further to the left on economic matters? today senator bernie sanders officially launching is had 2020

campaign as he did that, he took a swipe at the wealthy. here he is. >> i'm running for president and i'm asking to you today to be part of an unprecedented grassroots campaign. we should not have a grotesque level of wealth inequality, which thee billionaire, now own more wealth than the bottom half of the country. we should not have a regressive tax system in which large profitable corporations like amazon pay nothing in federal income taxes. connell: "real clear politics" white house reporter phil wegman starts us off on the 2020 contenders. good to see you. like back to the future with bernie sanders. he started this whole teal what we're hearing from many others on left. >> absolutely bernie sanders started this. the question i'm hearing from a lot of pollsters and analysts on the democratic side, possible he

might be a victim of his own success. like you mentioned a second ago, he pioneered some of these issues. think about things like medicare for all, free college tuition, definitely taking a shot at millionaires and billionaires. what was considered this sort of radicalism, just a couple years ago, is now very much so, sort of democratic party orthodoxy. so the fear here from some who are in our, supporters of bernie sanders is he might not have so much of a lane because so many people adopted similar policy positions. connell: they're following him into the lane. the theory is they're passing him by. becoming a litmus test for candidates early on to say, funny this is actually happening but are you a socialist? bernie sanders has said for years, yeah, i am. he is actually not a democrat. he is a democratic socialist. up in new hampshire we've seen kamala harris say for example, no, i'm not. we'll see how those candidates kind of shake out on this.

i guess at the end, their policies will speak to that. >> absolutely. this will be a bellweather issue. we saw last night in miami, president trump zeroed in on the socialism issue, repeating his state of the union pledge this country would never become a socialist nation. earlier this morning, kayleigh mcenany as her role as campaign spokesman, she reiterated that pledge. republicans are not just pushing bernie sanders but entire field to answer the question, why if socialism is failing in south america, what a different form of social i am, would a democratic socialism succeed in this country? it will be a very interesting question to watch. connell: you bring up a good point. you get a chance to speak to officials in the white house, seems they like the dynamic and matchup or keep it simple, we're for capitalism, they're for socialism. funny on the polling, at least now the capitalism still wins, although some individual

policies are quite popular. >> that is something to keep a close eye on. we see more and more millenials, generation z kids coming to the polls. they didn't see the berlin wall fall like their parents did. a lot of younger voters don't have knee-jerk reaction ingained in them. it will be very important for republicans to win the argument on this issue. that requires defining what socialism actually is. connell: the white house is not worried about the growing popularity from some of the programs, right? from what you pick up they like the socialism versus capitalism argument for them? they think it's a political gift? >> when you have venezuela in the backdrop. neil: right. >> republicans managing a very competitive economy right now. they think this is good argument for them to make.

connell: phil wegman. thank you for. elizabeth warren on a wealth tax to pay for a universal child care program. listen to senator warren. >> not just the children of the wealthy. not just the children of the well-connected but everyone of our children is entitled to good child care and early learning experiences. when people say it will be really expensive, the answer it is. we can pay for it. i've got a way. the ultramillionaires tax. [cheering] forbes publisher rich karlgaard and. rich, i will key in on the last few words she heard from elizabeth warren. not talking about millionaires tax or tax on wealthy. going with ultramillionaires tax. the way of 2019. we'll tax the well off, 250,000, 500,000. this is net worth of 50 million

or higher. so those things grow in popularity, whatever the merits are. it is not just a lot of people it affects, right? >> will the problem is, when you look at entitlements, as a percentage of the u.s. federal budget, it is already about 70%. it is going to 80 and going to5. adding this as an entitlement would basically crowd out everything else, including military spending. so you have got that problem. the other problem is, that i think a lot of these left-wing democrats, imagine that these rich people like bill gates and jeff bezos, are sitting on a pile of gold coins like scrooge mcduck when in fact, if you're going to tax their wealth, you will force them to sell shares in their own company. that is the only way that would happen. connell: also a very good point. we have misconceptions, lauren, we saw this with the amazon story about how money kind of

works. in other words, a, if you're a rich person, how much of the money you have is liquid, or in the amazon case, if you're a company supposedly getting it, it is tax incentives. easy to talk about these things but actually implementing them is something completely different. >> even if you can implement them, connell, might bring in more tax revenue, have the money to do all of these great, grand missions like, universal child care, but what you see is people leave, they leave with their money. capital flight. sometimes, very often that could be bigger than the revenue it actually brings in. we've seen that play out in many european countries, particularly france. connell: so the way these democratic candidates, rich, go about it, i was getting to this with phil a little bit, will be interesting, i mentioned kamala harris in our last conversation, amy klobuchar, senator from minnesota, she was asked similar questions to the ones harris was asked up in new hampshire, for example, on free college, which

is a big thing on the left right now, she says, no, we can't afford that. people are looking at her, really? are you a true democrat? what is your story? i wonder if that is the lane for so-called moderate or is that even moderate these days? >> i think amy klobuchar, she has proven she has bipartisan support in minnesota. minnesota by definition is kind of a centrist state. something about minnesota, maybe because it is so-called it freezes out rabid populism. you can already see the hard left is attacking her. you see the opposition research on, she is a tough boss. connell: right. >> that is already come out. and that didn't happen by accident. connell: no, not the timing of it. i mean we would have to be, you would have to be quite, i guess naive to say, boy, that is interesting, she is just about to announce, we have stories we never heard before, making the rounds. what about the idea, is there a centrist lane for the democrats?

we talk bull at time of moves to the left. every now and then you hear somebody like amy klobuchar there is an opportunity to be different? >> you started your show, connell, with phil, how bernie sanders was basically the beginning of all of this. back to the future, imprint of a socialist movement that has become mainstream within the democratic party. i'm not sure it is mainstream, in fact it is not mainstream across america. i think as multitude and growing number of democratic candidates for 2020 emerge, they have to differentiate amongst each other. so i wrote down some of the crazy taxes. aoc income tax rate of 70%. bernie sanders, estate tax rates as much as 77%. that is not realistic or feasible for some. so, yes, senator klobuchar is trying to carve what could be successful democratic party. way down the middle. centrist. but the energy is on the left. that is the problem.

connell: rich, good to see you. lauren, good to see you always as well. we'll move on to talk about trade here. in washington this week, they have a new round of china trade talks, they started today. constant talking between the u.s. and china. where are we? is it within reach? we'll get to that. with the market up 33 points, basically all all mart in the dow. online sales surging. walmart stock price sup 4%. who says amazon has no competition online. we'll break that down and more. stay with us on cavuto coast to coast. melissa will be with me at 4:00 on "after the bell." we'll be right back. what do you look for when you trade? i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform.

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connell: yet another round of u.s. china trade talks. higher level talks set to resume on thursday and friday. with that, big deal for the market. let's get to hillary vaughn were latest on all of this. hillary. reporter: a new round of tariffs kick in just 10 days. trade talks pick up in washington after wrapping up discussions in beijing last week. even though they didn't work out a deal yet, the president says he is pleased with the progress. >> ambassador lightheiser i got to say got back from a place called china and boy, oh, boy, we're making a lot of progress. nobody expected this was going to be happening. [cheering] reporter: trade officials are up against the clock to negotiate a trade truce, to stop a 15% increase on tariffs from china by march 1st. tariffs will go up from

10 percent to 25%. they are setting the stage for high-stakes talks at the end of the week. the u.s. bringing the all-star negotiating team. heading up the talks, trade rep robert lighthizer, treasury secretary steve mnuchin, wilbur ross and larry kudlow and trade advisor peter navarro. the white house says their goal is to make significant structural changes in the u.s.-china trade relationship. at the center of it though, controversy over china, forced technology transfers and stealing intellectual property. chinese officials continue to deny they do any of that. both the u.s. and chinese officials are are eager to make it through the negotiations with a deal. china's top diplomat, state counselor says they too are open to change. hopes the two countries can reach quote a bold trade agreement on this. connell. connell: hillary vaughn, live from d.c. as hillary said, you heard the

president talk about a place called china as he puts it. this is a big time for the markets. the dow coming off eight straight weeks of gains. we'll see whether the strike ends this week. joe duran joins us, and fox business's deirdre bolton down at the new york stock exchange is with us as well. been trying to figure out, joe, start with you on this, what we're sort of pricing in on markets as a way of seeing or asking are we getting ahead of ourselves in terms of what we expect from a china deal? what do you think is happening right now? >> i think we priced in at the very least, we're not going to get that tariff increase in march. at the very least there will be an extension of that. and secondly the pricing in the really good news we're seeing here in the u.s. and i measure that by the small caps, small caps are not affected a lot by the china talk. that is much more of a big cap thing. the small caps since that christmas low have really shown,

even with the noise what happened in the markets. just continual improvement. that is a good sign for the economy. another thing that happened is the dollar stablized. the dollar going up is a tax to big cap companies. that stablized as well. so a lot of reasons to be optimistic. connell: three of them you just gave us there, joe, deirdre going to you on that. showing currencies now, get joe's point on that, economy looking fairly strong we see for the small caps, focus another moment on china, deirdre. what about this point if we were to go from 10% in the next round of tariffs up to 25% if that actually happens, that it sounds like, joe and other investors say it would be a surprise to investors at this point? >> i think it would be a surprise and i think one of the reasons why we've seen the market so high the past few weeks, this optimism we can figure something out between the

u.s. and china. i think even support we're seeing today is quite frankly just because the conversations are continuing, right? our trade rep did not leave beijing, okay, we couldn't figure something out. the conversations are continuing this week in d.c. so there is some support with that. going through how the markets are responding. consumer and communications services at this moment, are the parts when we see the market markets higher, when they are supportive, on downside, industrials and energy. but overall optimism, quite clearly if there is any at any point, it is about the hope that a framework can be reached and maybe it is not exactly these details about the 10 to 25% tariffs. connell: yeah. >> but maybe it is just an agreement to continue talking or an extension. we know we have heard mixed messages from the administration whether or not there can be an extension but two sides seem to be talking. connell: extension, keep it at

10, not go to 25 and the conversations to your point seem to be ongoing, constant, would continue. that is what investors are waiting for, see trade related stocks we like to follow, duponts of the world. they're doing okay. i want to focus on consumers as well. walmart numbers are interesting. the dow is up today. comes on top of a new york fed survey we got an hour or so ago, consumers spend more this year than they did last year. i guess the state of the american consumer walmart up 4%. not bad at all. >> not bad at all to your point, connell. obvious are there stocks falling on the dow. i want to bring you a quote as well from walmart ceo doug mcmillan saying, a favorable economic environment is helping walmart grow sales and gain market share. i think for some investors in that stock, that gaining market share point is really important, especially because we really

didn't know how walmart was going to do. of course you know, this holiday period happened during a time when 800,000 federal employees were furloughed. so there were a lot of questions, how was walmart going to do in the all-important fourth holiday quarter. the fact they did well, top and bottom line, exceeding expectations, the fact the ceo says we see strong economic conditions. it answered two big questions. certainly why overall we're seeing consumer related stocks trade higher. as we all know consumer activity, 2/3 worth of our economy. so that is important. just an outgoing statement, walmart is saying sales for this year are going to be exactly as they had hoped. so that leads a little more muscle to the upside trade, connell. connell: joe, you look at it, we talk about amazon and walmart as two behemoths in the retail world. we assume amazon owns the online

space. walmart tells us e-commerce sales are up 43%. what did you make of that number? >> just realized what happened at walmart the last year. they have gone up from 1000 in store pickups for groceries, 2100 in the last 12 months. just expanding the pickup aisle to double the amount of stores is impactful, target doing the same thing. amazon has got whole foods to do the same thing. you want to see the same, you want to replicate that. we're not boeing from 2,000 to 4,000 stores for pickup. they offered services they didn't have before. that has been great for them. i think more importantly for walmart, unlike jcpenney good enough wasn't good enough for them a decade ago. they started realizing they had to shift to a digital and location, kind of like apple, kind of like amazon. connell: yep. at some point none much us will have to go to the grocery store ever again. >> hey. connell: deirdre, thank you. joe, good to see you.

as we continue we'll shift over to talk about the immigration debate we seem to have on a daily basis here in the country after the president's emergency declaration. it is facing a growing legal challenge, state after state jumping on. so we'll get into that as we continue and look how far this could go. that's next. >> we will then be sued, they will sue us in the ninth circuit. we will possibly get a bad ruling. then we'll get another bad ruling. then we'll end up in the supreme court.

♪ connell: president trump criticizing california over this border wall lawsuit. see on the map there, more and more states are joining in on that lawsuit. edward lawrence today is at the white house with more on all this edward? reporter: connell, right now the president is meeting with the department of homeland security secretary no doubt talking about the crisis the president says is on our southern border. a group of 16 states joined the

lawsuit to try to prevent the declaration, emergency declaration over the border. the lawsuit accuses the president of unconstitutional and you unlawful scheme. the states argue that they need to block the declaration to protect their residents natural resources and economic interests from president donald j. trump's flagrant disregard of fundamental separation of powers principles. the white house pushing back on the lawsuit. >> we know that the wall helps protect american lives. it helps to protect our communities. we want to be able to stop criminals, gang members, smugglers from coming and abusing the vulnerable families. reporter: the lawsuit has been filed in the ninth circuit court of appeals district in san francisco. that will then give it to the ninth circuit court of appeals the president would said rule against him. it routinely does. the president believes this will end at the supreme court. the republicans saying it is all politics. >> i'm so disappointed in the

democrats. i went down to the border. talked to the border patrol a little overa week ago. what do they need? they need more agents. they need more technology, the technology is very old. they need barriers. to get barriers to keep operational control where people come across. that is what they need. the democrats stopped it. reporter: this is talking point for democrats who want to be president. >> the idea that he is trying to say that we have people that are trying to invade our country to commit mass crime, is a crisis of his own making. reporter: president calls this obviously humanitarian crisis on border. he will sign space force directive 4. in essence puts it under umbrella of the air force as much as marines are to the navy. that will happen 2:00 today. look out for that. connell: edward lawrence at the white house today.

back to the immigration debate, will the order from the president hold up in court? does it, as he predicts eventually go to the supreme court? if so, is there a path to victory for the white house point of view? constitutional law attorney joins us now. you know, a lot of people have been saying, katy, heading into this, this was a political move from the president. it will be defeated in the courts but do you think maybe he is actually on to something? if it does get to the supreme court, might have a chance to win? what is the path? >> yes, absolutely. this may be politically polarizing but the law may very well be on president trump's side here. the national emergencies act is very broad and it gives the president very undefined discretion at this point to declare an emergency as they see fit and take action to address that and i think that the president's speech in the rose garden regarding what is going to happen with the litigation could very well be exactly what happens here. that he will be turned down at

the lower levels. connell: right. >> issued injunctions. ultimately may prevail at supreme court. connell: people are getting a laugh, we'll lose one in the ninth circuit. we'll go lose another one. and end up -- you're saying how it might actually plays out. i'm always interested in, what will be used on each side. we've heard a lot about precedent. there is nothing exactly analogous to this particular declaration of an emergency or is there? some people brought up i guess president trump man years ago with the steelworkers. that was before there was a national, before this act in the0's, the national emergencies act. that doesn't line up. what will the courts be looking at in terms of precedent? >> i think that is a really great question. you're right, the truman case was before the national emergencies act arose. that case really set the standard for what courts look to when they're deciding if an executive acted within their powers. one of the things interesting here, a lot of people have suggested that, what president trump has done is against the will of congress.

in that case he would be subject to extreme judicial scrutiny but in reality, if we look what happened, president trump's action is not directly contrary to what congress wanted. it is just a debate about the money. what congress has authorized is border security measures. a question how much money goes towards that. connell: let me ask you about that. that will come up, right. congressional control of the spending, separation of powers and power of the purse goes to the congress. now they did not authorize, to your point, this amount of money. isn't that what would be debated? they gave the money to something es, they being congress, the president wants to use it for something different. how does he actually win that argument? >> well, that is kind of the interesting part of this. the president under the national emergencies act can take funds that are appropriated for other purposes. the questions for the courts is, if the president is acting

against the will of congress, his actions will be subject to extreme scrutiny. is this truly an emergency? is it something that needs to be addressed? and that the president has this unilateral authority to address? connell: right. >> i think it can be looked at in a couple ways. i don't think this is against the will of congress first, but even if it is if the president can justify it as a true emergency he still may be authorized to do that. connell: that is the the thing. that is a good final point to discuss whether or not it is really an emergency. when the president made comments in the rose garden early on in the news conference, some are saying his own words could be used against him. he said something to the effect i didn't have to do this, i could have waited but i decided to do it anyway. some reading between the lines are saying well, it is not really an emergency. the white house argues differently. but do you think that will come up? >> it will, but what is interesting the national emergency's act doesn't give a

definition of what is an emergency. if you're diagnosed with cancer, is isn't that emergency? you don't have to go to the emergency room, if you don't address what happens, slowly you will have severe consequences. that is apartment analogy. the president's judgment of on what is emergency has been subject to ridicule. he has a lot of justification why this border security measure is necessary. whether it is something that meets the definition of an emergency will remain to be seen. connell: courts will decide that eventually. maybe the supreme court. katy, thanks for coming on. >> thank you. connell: in a moment, howard schultz is back in the news today because he wrote this piece where he says, you know what? if i run for president, i'm not going to be a spoiler. if i think i'm going to be a spoiler, sounds like he won't run. we'll get to charlie gasparino and what he is hear about that after a quick break. we'll be right back. i've always been amazed by what's next.

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connell: get to howard schultz, wrote a piece on medium, where you can write your own pieces. he says he is pledging to his supporters he will not be as what they describe as a spoiler in the presidential race. a lot of people were worried he would be the reason trump would be elected. >> anybody can write on medium? connell: anything can post anything. >> i can write about fannie and freddie on medium. connell: charlie, i wanted to talk about the segment yesterday about fannie and freddie. he said no. we have to get to schultz. >> i speak with schultz's people once a week. the political consultants around him, do what political consultants say and do, they want hill to run because they will make a lot of money but they always hedge. connell: that is what he is doing in the piece. he is hedging. >> he is not there yet. kind of interesting, if you look at all the moderates that are

kind of in the race or around the race. howard schultz, not there yet. mike bloomberg, not there yet. connell: right. >> joe biden, not there yet. connell: only one that you can describe as moderate all-in right now is klobuchar, senator klobuchar from minnesota. >> unclear how moderate she is. connell: you're right. >> of the major moderates, they're not there yet. what they're all worried about is two things. they don't want to be known as especially schultz as reelecting donald trump because he doesn't like a lot of what trump's policies, probably hates trump policies more than he hates the progressive policies. the other thing, they don't think they can win. connell: i read that piece, if you nominate, a democrat, say you nominate bernie sanders, guess what? i'm probably going to run. i think there is a lane for me. if you nominate one of these moderates, klobuchar, biden, i will not get in here and split

the vote. don't worry about me, i will drop out. >> here is the thing, i was speaking with some people associated with bloomberg. just to get into the calculus a little bit, bloomberg in the 70s, now. 76, 77. he believes he will live to 90. his mom lived very old. connell: she did, i believe. >> into old age. he believes he will live to 90. has more money than -- connell: god, neil cavuto. >> twice as much. maybe. very liquid. so he can finance it himself. i was asking him, if he does go, does he get rid of bloomberg lp? what does he do with the company? the general consensus is that he sells the news business, something that he doesn't, he is not animated by as much. connell: his main business is data terminals. >> which makes a lot of money. he will not just get rid of them, a cash cow. he will keep that. that will finance his campaign.

the news business he might spin off. connell: interesting. >> that is what they are thinking. again, i said, why isn't he saying he is in it? how long does it take? connell: get to what we talked about yesterday. >> he doesn't know if he can win. won't waste his money. connell: doug schoen, play this for people that weren't with us on presidents' day show, what might hold bloomberg back doug is his pollster. >> it wasn't doug i spoke to. connell: on a different topic. here is doug. >> you can appreciate it is not an easy decision. connell: what is the biggest, not the holdup what is he kind of grappling with? >> i think he is grappling with with the can he, as all do, can he win. second as a moderate, can he make an impact in the primary? third, is his voice best heard as a candidate or outside the process? connell: see i think that last point is the most interesting one to me. bloomberg gets in, decides to

spend 500 million plus as a non-candidate. as i said to doug -- >> one of the things we reported. one of the things his advisors were saying, wasn't doug told me this, he could use money to support candidate of his choe. does he think elizabeth warren is better for the country than trump? connell: i'm not inside his head. that might have impact on the race rather than someone who doesn't run in the primaries. >> if he doesn't go, maybe he puts his money hine biden. being a moderate in the democratic party now, people talk a lot about what is the going on republican side, trump upended stuff, there is civil war, look at reaction of amazon moving to new york, how that unfolded, what the debate that ensued between progressives and far left, the far left. the far left, make progressives look like moderate. progressives, people like

comrade bill de blasio and mayor of new york city. connell: who supported it. but had to backpeddle a little bit. >> even andrew cuomo, the governor of new york. there is a real rift going on in the democratic party. doesn't take a rocket scientist, populists, progress i was is are extremely progressive on economic issues, massive taxes, they're winning, blocking amazon, winning every step of the way. mike bloomberg is not a guy to throw money away. connell: right. >> biden may make the same sort of calculus. i'm 77, why do i need this? i'm tilting at windmills. connell: bernie at 77. he is in. >> howard schultz may say the same thing. connell: maybe. >> unless he feels democrats go so far left. his way of getting in, connell, democrats go so far left, and trump is, does his usual -- connell: someone like bernie sanders would have to be nominee.

schultz says, you know what? maybe i'm an alternative. we got to go. got to let charlie go now, a, we're late for commercial. charlie has to go back to twitter. a lot of people are fighting with. >> they're screaming at me because i said fannie, freddy, a public company created by congress. connell: got your phone. put your glasses on. get out of here. >> you would i this, everybody say -- connell: this segment is officially over. we'll be right back. the latest innovation from xfinity

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♪ connell: actually more and more economists believe it or not saying we shouldn't be worried about our national debt, which as you probably know, if you've been watching us, recently topped $22 trillion. convention of states action president, mark meckler joins us. the journal had a big piece, mark, economists say in the current environment, rates are low, the rest of it, as high as that number sounds, i guess the argument with, very some space, don't worry. what do you say? >> well, we may have space at the moment, but what can't continue, woken continue. if you dig into the article, even they're saying over long term, this might be dangerous. i thing to watch is bid-to-cover ratio on treasury bonds. at lowest point it has been 10 years. that is indication of a shaky market.

i think economists would do well to rein in those opinions. connell: that is interesting. the over all numbers, whether that article or other interviews with economists, they will say the interest rate on a government bond is relatively low, if we were so worried about debt and deficits it would shoot up. you're saying it's a little bit more complicated than that? >> it is really important, every time we have economic troubles it is foreshadowed by this lower bid-to-cover ratio. less people bidding on treasurys coming up. as those bids go down, less and less people are bidding, interest rates necessarily have to go up. that is how the market functions. connell: matter of timing, space between when that interest kind of goes down, the interest in the treasurys goes down. interest rates go up. technically maybe their argument is correct. we have the space, just a matter of how much space? >> we never know how much space. we do know no nation has ever

climbed out of the hole that we're in right now. they're not talking about 140 trillion in unfunded liabilities. current debt, 22 trillion in current debt. we have problem of current deficit on annualized basis. we're over a trillion dollars this year. this administration imposing more debt on the country this year than bush or obama. connell: that is crazy. >> we look forward to the travesty to come. connell: bezos can't write a check to get us out of it, the number is too big, right? maybe that is the rule of thumb we should use. simpler than bid to cover. >> if you look at the entire value of the fortune 500 doesn't cover our annual deficit right now. that is a serious problem. connell: that is even better one. okay, mark, food to talk to you. we'll keep talking about it. maybe people start carrying. >> thank you. connell: senate introducing student loan repayment legislation. veronica daguerre,

"wall street journal" wealth reporter. good to see you, veronica. take money out tax-free, to pay for student loans. so it is something, reintroducing, because we heard this debated but now gaining some steam? >> we have heard this before. it is gaining some steam. it's a bipartisan issue at this point, exciting to see something like that happening in washington these days. republicans love tax cuts. democrats, love cheaper cost of education. people are realizing, what a huge problem the student loan issue is. connell: yes. >> $1.5 trillion in outstanding student loans that is only second to housing, mortgage debt. so this is a huge crimp on our economy, when you think about future growth. connell: right. then you have young people coming out of college at 21, 22 years of age. then maybe even a little bit older coming out of say, law school or medical school which adds even more to it and then trying to actually buy things. you go to them, try to recruit

them on college campus, i just found out, veronica and i were both graduates of the harvard of the bronx, fordham university. >> that's right. connell: sticker shock on private schools, you go to campuses to recruit, does this thing help, we can help with student loans? >> absolutely. it's a great recruiting tool. it is great retention technique, looking between two different offers giving a great opportunity. at the end of the day you're better off with higher salary than benefit. connell: this is the number they're debate. the company, the employer, could contribute $5250 tax-free a year. >> a year. connell: that is pretty good. you think how much you have in student loans, you maybe go for higher salary. >> once the debt is gone you no longer get the benefit. better with the higher salary. connell: that is why you're the wealth reporter. one way of tackling a larger problem. more and more talk about this

student debt issue. >> it's a tremendous issue. we're seeing already with statistics with housing. people are not buying houses, not getting married, not having kids because they're saddled by this debt. it affects people's lifestyle choices. down the road if we don't have young people able to support the older generations that has amazing, huge implications for our economy. connell: don't have disposable income to do it. if you look at studies, we talked about this a little bit yesterday, if you make the calculation, all right, is it worth it with college? maybe you go to a state school, pay a little bit less, but are the private tuitions worth it? i think the numbers still show that higher education level, the more income. it is still worth it? but that line must be close? >> it is probably getting closer. depends what you want for the future. if you want to live in rural area of america. it doesn't make sense for to you take on huge amount of student

loans if you cannot support your life-style in rural america, on rural american salary. if you have got tons of student debt of the you need to think about the long-term goals before you take on this debt. overall though, yeah, you still need that college education, it is a barrier to entry for many people. if you're going to be a plumber, you don't need to go to college. go to a trade school. you will probably make a lot more money than people that actually went to college. connell: you will be trained, no how to do a good job be licensed all the rest. good to see you, very ron canning daguerre, "wall street journal," and fordham university. bernie sanders hit wealthy again after entering 2020 race. he is in and we're talking about it next. sources say liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. over to you, logo. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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connell: we are back on "cavuto: coast to coast." connell mcshane again for neil cavuto. the market is looking to make it nine weeks of games in a row.

so far we are a beard up and down 32 on the dow right now. also getting some new details coming in on the legal backlash that president trump is facing after declaring a national emergency. we'll talk a lot about that. top story today mixing economics and politics, the senator from vermont bernie sanders hitting corporations and hitting the wealthy after he officially jumped than to the presidential race spirit white house correspondent gabby or is it the spirit "washtington examiner" as well. no surprise obviously that he did that come about one of the things we've been pointing out is that it was the quote, unquote movement that bernie sanders started in the question in 2020th of there's still room in its own movement. >> i think he was the leader in the movement and it's become clear the last several hours since he announced his campaign

at the energy is still behind him. he's already blown past the campaign contributions that kamala paris saw in her announcement. i still think he has a lot of the energy behind it campaign and movement. what's even more interesting is the president's reelection effort is now looking that this carefully and thinking this might then fit them in the long run as bernie sanders jumps into the democratic field of candidates. they think as long as it moves continuously to the last and continues to promote some of these progressive ideas that they've long been championing from it allows president trump to ride in 2020 on this anti-socialist message that we've heard impressive in the last few days beard churn until he heard in the miami speech when he was talking about venezuela last night or in the afternoon yesterday. the white house they love this

because. the great new deal. all of these things think they win this argument. i brought up earlier some of these individual items are growing in popularity, but still if you talk capitalism versus socialism broadly that it should be a winner in terms of economics and politics for the white house is not the way you see it? >> i think you're right, carmel. the only thing more surprising to me than 77-year-old bernie sanders who couldn't be the most disliked democratic presidential candidate in history would be more surprising than not is that it's not only running again, but he actually appears to be second among democrats. second only to joe biden who of course has not announced yet. connell: take gabby's point, that is a lot of money. kamala harris, she has at least i think from watching it, she's got the bus, the momentum in new

hampshire, but i guess bernie is raising more dough than her, which is interesting. >> a lot of people like bernie and see them as the leader of the progressive wing of the party. he does have a lot of support there. i think he actually harmed hillary clinton in the general election. he pushed her to the left. if you recall, he made her make a statement supporting a minimum wage of $15 because of his influence she went against the transpacific partnership. a free trade deal in donald trump ended up withdrawing out of. bernie sanders really pushed hillary to the last and i think a lot of people like him for that in the democratic race. did that work in the general election? i would argue it didn't and that's one of the reasons hillary lost. bernie is not going to give up. he's not actually a democrat. he's only a democrat when it comes to running for presidential elections. connell: that may be an interesting point in a crowded field. you know more about this than the rest of us looking at the

fact that it's hillary clinton versus bernie sanders those are the personalities. but when you have 20 or 25 candidates out there, the fact that he is literally not a member of the party which are running in the primary, will that matter in terms of the way things shake out. >> that's absolutely going to play a role in a democratic primary. obviously if he makes her that it becomes the nominee then it won't be a factor. but if he's up against 15 or 20 other democratic candidates, all of them self identify as democrats in congress or elsewhere in state legislatures for instance that's going to be extremely difficult for him and suddenly saw play out in the 2016 election. there is huge backlash to bernie sanders sort of entering the democratic presidential field in 2015 and threatening a nomination that many people thought was hillary clinton from the beginning. and call above might be -- this time around however some of the

democratic party rules have changed regarding superdelegate in the way that the convention will go in selecting a nominee later this year. >> some of the other candidates has used the term self identifying, they're going to be whether this self identified as socialists. was that yesterday she had to deal with the spirit she said no. >> not only are they be announced at the self identify as socialists, they're asked about some of the policies senator sanders has championed. amy klobuchar and cnn asked about free college tuition for four years and she said that is not something she would support. obviously someone harris had to walk back her endorsement of totally ending private health insurance after that was something she aligned herself with. absolutely has been in this democratic field does pose a risk to a number of competitors

who have to answer to some of the policies he's already proposed. train to gabby, thanks. thanks to you as well. in the meantime president trump is getting set for his 2020 campaign. they made a staff announcement about that campaign today. he is doubling down in the meantime. he talked about, for example his national press secretary maybe some other officials to his communications staff. as he's doing that, he went to miami to meet with the venezuela speech and doubled down on the attacks he's been lengthy and against socialism. here's the president. >> those who would try to impose socialism on the united state, we again deliver a very simple message. america will never be a socialist country. connell: started in the state of the union, emily joins us from the federalists. the question is it going to work in the president set himself was

going to say we have a simple message, never going to be socialist whereas democrats have a lot of programs, some of which might be popular. when you say capitalism or socialism, it still wins. >> and symbolism is a key word here. what president trump is good that it really is entire career is branding many of us to go with the simplest branding. make america great again. trying contrast between socialism and capitalism and the democrats are making it -- the democratic field is make in a very easy for him to do that. the green new deal for gents which virtually every candidate signed onto. that is just handing him so much ammunition to draw the contrast he started in the state of the union because it will only benefit him when he is able to juxtapose the massive government takeovers of certain sectors of the economy and the certainly with the great new deal is. whatever it is, and makes it so

easy for him to show things black and white and flip a choice to the american people. connell: depending on who the nominee is. easy to say the whole field is moving to the left. if i was to say now today as we have this conversation, who is the dream candidate for president trying to run against? who among all of this group but he loved to run again and on the flipside which candidate poses the biggest threat to the president, which two would you pick? >> i think would be beneficial if you're president trump you would want to run against elizabeth warren. if you're democrat you would want to run someone harris. elizabeth ward and i think is kind of similar to hilly clinton and the mice, but you could probably argue further left when it comes to economic issues. connell: you can tell by the way of that the candidate he tweets about the most. >> very telling. true to real quick before we let you go, why harris do not

klobuchar? >> i think someone harris has incredible communication skills. she presents her ideas very well. democrats have a pretty strong field if you look at corey booker and klobuchar, she's the strongest communicator of all of them. connell: interesting. good to see you. in a moment the future of the president's border wall now in the hands or the courts. that means it's time for the judge. andrew napolitano on not talking about which side has the stronger case. later today join us for "after the bell." the market as it closes up at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. coming right back on fox business. "cavuto: coast to coast."

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connell: i believe we are up to 16 states now filing or joining in this lawsuit against president trump's declaration of a national emergency and fox news senior judicial analyst andrew napolitano is here on legal footing. he figures he is eventually -- >> of course he believes he is. this raises sweeping questions about the relationship between the president and the congress. the first issue is a question of fact, is there a true emergency. has the president exaggerated this further fact -- connell: where the guests earlier say it's pretty broad so it's hard to define. >> i didn't hear the guests before but i agree with a summary. it is generally defined as the following. the ordinary instruments of government are insufficient to address this. so when george w. bush declared an emergency in katrina brought all kinds of troops and they are to save people from drowning, the ordinary at what the government, the local police department were insufficient to address. connell: i'm not a lawyer or

even a politician thank goodness, but i'm trying to think in my mind how i would argue that in this case. >> the president would have to show what he calls an invasion is so severe, putting such pressure on the ordinary instruments of government. the border patrol supported by the military that they cannot address this without a physical barrier. that's the end of it if he can sell back, then he has the more complex the theoretical argument about when can the president defy the congress? answer, when it comes to spending money he cannot defy the congress at all. we know that from a similar case which is president truman. in the korean war, half a million deal workers go on strike. truman is pulling his hair out. our troops are in harms way. connell: when he lost on that. >> you lost. the same thing president trump did he find an emergency

declaration. >> i was before the emergency declaration act as i'm getting that right. that was signed in the 70s. >> the emergency declaration fact cannot allow the president to do what the constitution prohibits in the constitution says only congress can spend money. the emergency declaration act would allow the president temporarily to occupy private property, to bypass the bidding requirement if they have to buy materials right away. they cannot spend money that's not been authorized for that purpose. it's equivocal as to whether or not there's an emergency, but not as to whether he can spend money. if congress remained silent it would be a different story. three times they said no. he can defy congress but not in an area of o'connor duchenne that's delegated exclusively, which is --

connell: the power of the purse. you're saying it's a tough sell to say it's an emergency. not impossible, but tough. so maybe that less than 50%. connell: here's the good news for the president. when this happened in 1952, two weeks before filing a complaint in federal district court, two weeks. the supreme court in a case like this if it wants to control very quickly. connell: this is more political than legal, but that's only good news if he wins. >> it won't even get to the supreme court. being joined by a federal district court judge upheld by the ninth circuit in albion and peered connell: how does that and then. the supreme court could still choose to take the case. >> the supreme court could take a case take a case on the way from a district election, once a district court judge has ruled it will come to them anyway and they will bypass the intermediate appellate court. lately they have not been doing that because most of them sat on

intermediate appellate courts and they want to show respect to their colleagues. they also don't want to take a case that they might never have to take if they basically agree with what the intermediate appellate court is going to do. on the theory the supreme court should take cases that it needs to take care not cases that it wants to take peered connell: the president nor the white house in general but the president's comments outlined the case for the supreme court where he's appointed two of the justices is a moore's -- but this is not necessarily a case that conservatives depending on who the president was would be likely to rule in his favor because they're conservative. >> i think you're right. there may be conservatives who believe the law should be built, but they recognize only congress can spend the money and there are conservatives who recognize this is a very dangerous and slippery slope. if a president can defy congress on this, could president obama

have defied on health care or guns? connell: that the argument of republican senators right now. >> october looking for. connell: caputo, gasparino from all those guys. i speak italian here in new york. only in america. things are coming on. we'll talk more about all this, but also get to the american consumer, which if you look at the numbers from wal-mart, seems to be in pretty good shape. what about the rivalry, wal-mart and amazon. it is back and we are talking about it next. ♪ 'cause every day starts like a race. ♪ ♪ you got a side that loves that style, ♪ ♪ but to fit in those shoes gonna take awhile. ♪ ♪ today life's got you runnin'. ♪ ♪ tomorrow big things are comin'. ♪

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drink it without looking for ninth week in a row of games which is that hasn't happened in a long time in 1995, nine weeks in a row. good trade talks with china this week put an end to the street.

we are watching to see what comes out of the washington talks. in yet another, the great jeff flock is also joining a with a fine three-piece suit. >> the market is doing well. i can afford to tweet. connell: michelle, start with you on this idea. we talk about all the time being the one thing that can trip us up, but so far the assumptions as to be the president says it's true that progress is being made. >> absolutely. to our benefit china has absolute slowdown in the past year and they really need a deal. in the united states coming off of a rough december the stock market. ultimately i think you'll see a deal. connell: the pricing and of some sort of success aims to be there. one surprise to me would be if we do see the president go from

10% to 25% in march 1st or shortly her. investors are expecting at the very least an extension. >> the market expect in a deal of some sort. within the near-term. the biggest catalyst frankly for the equity markets as well as the credit markets has just been a change of pace from the fed. they've come off quite a bit from there auto pilot, and most recently. connell: the fed is on board now. used to be china and the fed but now it's just china. >> the fed on hold for 2019 has field risk market. connell: you're right. the thing that shook investors a little bit. we saw this yesterday on the holiday, top of the auto tariffs and adding to it's been a wonderful gopher was something. connell: not release the 232 report and who knows, maybe

they've decided not a threat -- >> let it play out for three months i believe. >> he also tweeted today. the dow would be down 10,000 if it wasn't for me. maybe an exaggeration but it has done pretty well. connell: white, an exaggeration? [laughter] it has done pretty well in some of the trade related stocks we are looking on the screen right now. many of those have held up pretty well also. what is fair to expect in the near term out of this? is it like we were talking earlier, let's just keep the status quo here or is this some sort of a broad-based deal in the next few weeks trying in the u.s. >> i would love to say we're going to have an amazing deal and there's going to be huge progress. i wouldn't be surprised if they did differ or have small but mps said the deal in different later. ultimately, any deal is a good deal not to the markets are in.

connell: the wal-mart numbers are interesting today and we kind of set it up as a wal-mart versus amazon. the online sales at wal-mart brought 43%. as i said last hour from amazon kind of those online, but wal-mart is doing as well. >> i've been with tears the last several months, so that's a cautionary tale to these guys to tank near the kings of the world right now. you don't know when somebody will come along. after the numbers on the december sales, who sought? i asked michelle earlier promotes this is surprising surprise and she said no, we knew that. connell: the former chairman of stack could basically use those terms in pretty much said maybe the retail sales figure we all looked at was way below expert patients. i could have been affected by something else whether it's the shutdown or an aberration. what is your view of the american consumer now? at their biggest take away and

there's some concern that it was such a nice frankly especially in light of these earnings from wal-mart. we are bullish on the consumer. i think the earnings show it. if you look at the fundamentals back in the u.s. consumer, the personal savings rate levels we haven't seen since the 1990s. household debt ratios are levels that are the lowest on record as the u.s. consumer showing excellent science of strength here particularly escalate tackle driven by the favorable labor market as well as wage gains, which is really helping the consumer. as far as where were looking is to areas of the credit market that are benefiting from the healthy consumer, particularly the residential mortgage-backed securities market. connell: that's interesting. michel. >> i want to talk about wal-mart for a moment. what's interesting is not only were the e-commerce sales up a

40%, but they're forecasting the sale should be plus 30% in fiscal year 2020. so that means that they're even more bullish on the u.s. consumer. connell: the new york fed did a survey where they said american consumers will spend more money this year than they did last. >> exactly. connell: mably got a little carried away, but it was very, very worried. now we are going to start asking the same questions every getting ahead of ourselves again. >> absolutely. just a lot more confidence particularly as a consumer continues to take hold here. a fed on hold i think is the big story particularly for the credit markets in the equity markets. connell: that one is not changing so maybe nine weeks in a row. i just learned something from a the teleprompter. the first time since 1995 but do not. >> probably in a hurricane somewhere. i think that was third divorce.

yeah, that's fine. connell: it only happens once or twice a year. thanks, guys. good to see you all. new details from venezuela. another big worry we continue to cover. the military define president trump's warning. the significance of that after a quick break. at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your healthcare business. so that if she has a heart problem & the staff needs to know, they will & they'll drop everything can you take a look at her vitals? & share the data with other specialists yeah, i'm looking at them now. & they'll drop everything hey. & take care of this baby yeah, that procedure seems right. & that one too. at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on.

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connell: you can choose the second path, continuing to support maduro. if you choose this path, you'll find no safe harbor, no easy exit didn't note -- you will lose everything. connell: interest in response to that. on state tv the defense minister of venezuela has the military

does stand by. the manipulation. peter brook's anonymous and former deputy assistant secretary of defense in heritage foundation senior fellow. the idea is the president was kind of giving the maduro people in offramp thing or not out to get you. get out while the getting is good. now the defense minister says maybe we'll hang around. when you make of that? >> i'm not actually surprised. you can imagine that these generals, two dozen generals, only have like 650 lakh officers in the u.s. military. their 2000 more in the venezuelan military. they put their wagon to the maduro -- to maduro and they're going to stay there. he's helped unwind their pocket through corruption and other needs including purported drug trafficking. they are hanging in there now and we are kind of at a bit of his tale made. i think this weekend could be a tipping point in what happens

with the u.s. and other aid at the border with venezuela. connell: want to get them in the humanitarian aid when. the same defense minister who made these comments reiterating what he described as obedience, sir burton nation has actually made some negative comments in the past that suggested they should resign and that kind of thing. your point is once you're under the gun and the choices either get out or stick by the guy that put you there, you stick until you can stick anymore. >> remember there is a lot of others as i mentioned. we're talking about 2000 of them. the enlisted so they can start to defect. the defense minister is just one person. he's obviously symbolic of the military, but is just one

person. when others start to go when they haven't gone yet. when the pressure continues, i think some of them might decide that there are better options. of course come the amnesty offer is made to them certainly need to be booked out if it's appropriate. they haven't been involved in terrible crimes is to be looked at as a way to bring back peace and democracy to venezuela. connell: juan guiado will be on with trish regan tonight on fox business and i guess the interesting question is what his next move will be as an example. what the deadline? how much time you give these people before you say enough is enough. we have to have some sort of a different method in what the deadline for maduro and his people to have a deal in place. >> there was in a deal at this point and obviously were increasing pressure of 50 some countries such as one quarter of the world's countries have recognized the new government.

the amnesty as i understand by the constitution is to be passed through the national assembly. they could do some things we don't want to see turn to violence. we want to see the maduro regime and in a whimper, not in a bank or we don't want to see u.s. attorney involvement or other latin american countries and go someplace to pay for his penalties at some point and is able to turn a quarter towards democracy and prosperity again. connell: will continue to watch it closely. this is all happen relatively quickly. i haven't been that long. just a few weeks. peter, always good to see you. back to domestic issues now in the greener deal that has been ruled out by the likes of aoc on the democratic tide. a bit of a rocky rollout. fox news chorus on a doug mckelway joined as a format. >> good to see you. thought of not such an ambitious or postal suffered such an awkward rollout around didn't

epic segment on congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez's website about the tenure urgency of addressing climate change before it too late. we won't build a fully get rid of guarding cows and airplanes that fast is that. also had unwilling to work. it's another lynch of ridicule. >> at the greener deal to cold come in grid would stop. the mac it sounds like a high school term paper that got a low mark. >> within hours of the rollout, and ocasio-cortez's office related the faq from her website. the next saturday her chief of next saturday for chief of staff tweeted it was an errant faq post it by mistake. the night before different advisor to ocasio-cortez offered a different next donation.

>> no, she's actually tweeted out to laugh at it. it seems apparently some republicans have put it out there. connell: professor robert pocket was mistakenly referring to a parity by right-wing commentator mark dice. two republicans, the real document serves as a parity in another elf. they published the congressional record. mitch mcconnell who does not like showboats announced a show boat. 67 democrat sign on to the greener deal, including six presidential candidate although they are calling it more of an aspirational document. we will try to sisters not rations in the coming week on special report to examine what is in the pre-new deal and how much it's going to cost american. back to you. connell: who they'll give you the work that man. >> first time i've said that on tv. connell: but i was a part of it you thank you. in the meantime, congress jury not for yet another major battle.

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connell: laputa facebook or lawmakers demand answers from the company on the exposure of users per l. health information. deirdre bolton at the stock exchange. some other business headlines. >> hey, can't alter the house energy and commerce committee demanding a briefing from facebook or this thing has to happen before march 1st. some facebook users may have had deeply personal health information shared. it's not entirely clear, but what was supposed to be closed and grew. not clear if some facebook users have information shared about substance abuse, hiv status from a history of sexual assault, not clear whether they say it's harassment or discrimination as their job. because of that, lawmakers are seeking to answer that question and demanding that facebook brief them before march 1st. southwest airlines have been a

pretty tough weekend and had to can't no more flights than any other u.s. carrier. am have to do with contract negotiations with their mechanics union and had to take them out of circulation. a separate issue because the drug administration probing whether or not the airline miscalculated the weight of checked luggage on its way. southwest airlines said it's working with the faa. some say that inaccurate when information could threaten safety in the event of engine failure or other issues. carriers such as american and delta use scanners to count the luggage. southwest uses its ground crew but will soon go to a computerized system. goodbye to a fashion icon, karl lagerfeld passed away at the age of 85. he made his mark for decades at chanel. he styled numerous stars and political figures including the first lady, melania trump the most exclusive designs for high-profile occasions. he was philosophical about his

legacy saint he willingly laughed at himself and he said he was always his own best cartoon. nice to see someone with a sense of humor. always appreciated. connell: in that industry, no doubt about it. in a moment, how the global 5g rollout, you hear so much about is actually sparking some new fears about spying firm the giant chinese company. that would make him back here on "cavuto: coast to coast." minimums and fees.

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connell: congress is gearing up for a fight over the debt ceiling. many economists say we shouldn't be worried about our debt so we put those things together for the national taxpayer union who joins us now. to try to separate it makes sense as well because the debt ceiling in another health care that always wondered about this at the mechanism even make

sense. some underwear party committed to spend and now kind of raising the ceiling for that. what is your view on that? the debt ceiling has been used as a point of leverage to do what it's supposed to do, which is decreased spending which these to more debt. the question now is becomes a political one, whether or not the parties in power are willing to use it. when democrats were in control of the house they did something interesting. they would attach it to the budget resolution which essentially meant they never vote on the debt limit. good reading to be raced along with the budget resolution and however much that meant. when republicans took over in 2010 to use it as a tool in point of leverage to decrease spending a discretionary spending increases that underplays a row that underplays over obama, nancy pelosi and harry reid or that was very significant. we got the budget control act which are those automatics ending cut that going to affect every year. congress can't reach a resolution on the budget.

that may seem insignificant but what cut $1.5 trillion in the name. connell: i guess it's insignificant that the reason it doesn't get as much attention is because even with all of that, we still have an issue with the national debt chopping $22 trillion even with all that. >> that's exactly right. the budget control act in 2010 only took him a discretionary spending. the drivers of our debt or mandatory spending systems medicare, medicaid, social security. that takes a lot more power in congress to get a revolution on those things and unfortunately requires bipartisan agreement in order to use rollback some of the spending on the program. connell: plus you have the journal wrote about this where people and it's not people necessarily thought to be out there on some kind of a political spectrum. it's fairly mainstream economists coming out to one degree or another say you neither the debt doesn't matter, but more to the point of saying

hey, doesn't matter as much as the bank and we have a little more space in here. a little more time before we need to think about it. that seems to be the popular thought right now. would you push back against it? >> i certainly would. we know over time they certainly do. the other problem when you hear an economists say it doesn't matter, they're likely referring to the fact that in one instance, one spot and time debt is not the most pressing issue is we have a whole host of public policy problems the politicians are charged with solving. over time the same politicians need to look into the future and start taking action now for a crisis looming large in several years. connell: do you know you're asking a lot. but then have to be something with interest rate. you need a reason to care if you're a politician, don't you? >> that's the difficulty of the debt limit. while some might get not very relevant, certainly it's important to investors and business owners and market

watchers could see the debt limit in negotiating as a destabilizing effect on markets. as we saw last time around, moody's threaten to decrease the rating on united dates that. that created a bunch throughout the market that ultimately led to a lot of anxiety about whether or not the united dates can move forward and it comes to negotiating over the debt limit. connell: good to see you. always appreciated. on another topic despite warnings from the united states, interesting to note today that we found out germany apparently is considering allowing the chinese company huawei to help with its 5g network. david kennedy joins us i'm not. i saw the headline. i said what's going on. do the germans know something we don't care what the deal because a lot of concern has been raised by corporate officials in the united states that if you allow huawei in common that you're putting your security >> thanks for having me on.

there is definitely a lot of concern when it comes to huawei. they have a checkered past. t-mobile came out with accusations, government came out with accusations huawei stealing intellectual property from t-mobile to boost their own products. we've seen different warnings from government agencies, backdoors, what china is placing into technology itself. we seen bans of huawei from other countries because of concerns of chinese influence, china being one of our largest adversaries, allies, eastern europe allies, all those are main concerns when it comes to huawei. connell: we had a story in poland. a huawei official was arrested accused of spying. the top sales official there. is that how they do business, huawei, all around the world? which is what made the german story more interesting? they're not in yet, the fact that germany is open to it, what does that tell you.

are they not concerned about so-called backdoors you talk about. that is legit, right? >> it is a big concern across the globe. look what is going on in china. seeing increased activities. much higher than 2015. china is major adversary when it comes to intellectual property theft, technology thefts, government secrets. that is big target, any allies of united states or concern culture. that is a huge concern. i would be concerned about the germany front. came out of left field. pretty much all the countries said no way, no way we allow huawei in there. seeing the united states will not take us down. we'll go out fighting every way we can. huawei is resistant, seeing you change the ways, what you're doing. i would be concerned especially from privacy protection. 5g side. eavesdropping protection, there could be some concern there.

connell: looking at government statistics. newest reports we have out, certainly china and also, iran, have picked up their hacking of u.s. companies. we've seen that, that we've seen in u.s. businesses. also government agencies, reporting more and more of this. when you see that, do you say that is straight up government hacking or it is the companies that are kind of up front or related so closely to the government we can't tell the difference? which is it when we see reports like that? >> usually in the reports we're talking about now specifically, referencing the government itself. connell: okay. >> however it is a lot different in china than here in the united states. not like we call the nsa. i need you to hack into competing company in china, hack into intellectual property -- connell: do we know it works for them. i know everybody is concerned about it. is it pretty much an open secret. is it nope to companies? how do they really know. >> it is pretty much known this is how the government works, how

they to after intellectual property. we've seen it before in the past. man i don't know released a report a number of years ago hacked into the peoples liberation army conducting operations against the government, against technology companies. we have different ways tracking groups, how they use that promoting chinese government. how that technology goes into the chinese economy to be sold in the united states for cheaper. known the government is actively used for stealing intellectual property in the united states, to use across the rest of the world to compete in our markets. we have largest intellectual property developed in the united states. a huge concern. something other countries look at, russia, iran. it is a huge issue. connell: huge issue, maybe long term as quote-unquote trade issue. probably related. david, good to see you. >> you too. thanks. connell: point out couple things. i see you back here on this same bat channel, 4:00 p.m. eastern

with melissa on "after the bell." at the moment we're up 24 points on the dow. pretty good numbers from walmart this morning. we'll take that, see how it does. charles payne hands in the next hour, see what he does until 3:00. charles: they call it the "cp effect." i'm charles payne. this is "making money." so much coming up. bernie sanders made it official throwing his hat in the ring for the 2020 presidential race. we'll break down the democratic candidates, economic agendas. they're happy divvying up the wealth. my question where is their plan for creating it? >> markets back in full swing after fantastic ending to last week. even president trump excited about his tweeting, have the opposition party, no, not the media, won the election, the stork market would be down at least 10,000 points right now. we're heading up, up. we'll tell you where the markets are heading.