he loved it. liz: charging. stuart: pete is one of the best interviewed guests. ashley: he is terrific. stuart: he has life. he has energy. he is what, 77, 78 years old? what a guy, what an interview. neil it is yours. neil: stuart, thank you very much. we're following same things you are. president arriving in shannon, ireland. bernie sanders speaking at walmart meeting. speaking with reporters gathered outside and protesters that walmart is not doing enough for its workers. let's dip into this. >> we worked with disney employees. they have raised their minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. [cheering] target is moving to 15 bucks an hour. [cheering] this company owned by the wealthiest family in america can pay 15 bucks an hour. [cheering] neil: now, to the man who is president, bernie sanders wants to be president. president meeting with irish

prime minister, let's dip into that. >> folks, i want to welcome all the members of the press here. it is -- all the members here. it is -- [inaudible]. welcome president to the ireland. certainly first time he has been here. this is the first time he has been here as president of the united states. only sixth time american president in office has visited ireland. look forward to having you here and meeting you. >> i appreciate it. the prime minister has done a fantastic job. we've become friends over last fairly short period of time. great relationship to ireland. i think it is as good as it ever has been. tremendous trade. we do a lot of business together. a lot of trade business together.

a lot of tourism together. maybe most importantly, you are certainly one of the leading countries in terms of people moving and we have millions of irish and i think i know most of them because they are my friends. we love the irish. honor to be here. we'll be discussing various things. you will probably ask me about brexit. very good people are involved as you know, and i think it will all work out. it will all work out very well and also for you with your wall, your border. we have a border situation in the united states and we you have one over here, but i think it will work out very well. i think it will work out well. it will work out very well here. and again both the military and trade is such a big factor. we'll be discussing that very much. so it is an honor to be in ireland with my friend. he is doing a great job as your prime minister.

>> [inaudible]. >> i think you do. i think you do. the way it works now you want to try to keep it that way. i know that is a big point of contention with respect to brexit is your border. i'm sure it will work out well. i know they are focused very heavily on it. reporter: mr. president -- [inaudible]. >> no i think it would be good. big thing is the border. hopefully that will work out. i think it will work out. there are a lot of good minds thinking about how to do it, and it is going to be just fine. i think ultimately it could even be very, very good for ireland but the border will work out. reporter: mr. president, what do you think about our president's comments he says your stance on climate change was reckless? >> i haven't heard those comments. we have the cleanest air in the world in the united states. it has gotten better since i'm president. we have cleanest water, i always say i want crystal clean water

and air. i haven't heard his comments. we're setting records environmentally. reporter: are you concerned that ireland is not sufficiently worried about the -- [inaudible]. some people are worried about it this country as well? >> i know that. we deal closely with your intelligence and your security. we're working on that together. i know you're concerned but we're concerned, we're all concerned about it. >> that is something that the irish government is concerned about as well. further briefings, information from the u.s. just to give us a security briefing on that. we'll do our own security analysis first and [inaudible]. it is something that we're also concerned about. >> we're working on it together very much not only europe but with ireland. reporter: what will you do -- >> we'll be going there. i'm as you know am making a trip tomorrow to normandy. we have an incredible time

today. this was just something that the likes of which few people have seen anything like it. we were with the queen and the royal family. we were the prime minister and, it was something very special. many of you were there. almost all of you were there but it has been very well-covered. it was truly beautiful. tomorrow we go to where it all took place. we go to normandy. i will be leaving from -- i'm staying here overnight. i thought this would be the best place. i love to come to ireland and stay at dune beg. we'll be leaving and going to normandy. reporter: [inaudible] >> say it? reporter: is this pretty moating your golf club? >> this trip is about great relationships with the uk. i really wanted to do this stop in ireland t was very important to me because of the relationship i have with the people and with the prime minister. reporter: mr. president, will

you -- [inaudible] irish citizens visas? >> we're looking at that. we almost made it one time. it was one vote. we're looking at that. that is something we'll discuss. i spoke to the one vote who is a great senator by the way. he is really is. he is a great senator. we think we're going to be successful. he is a terrific person. he is, didn't do any harm i can tell you. he was telling me loves ireland actually. so i think we'll be in good shape. we had just about a unanimous vote. if we get a unanimous vote, we just do something they have been trying to do for a long time. i want to do that for the peel of ireland. i want to do it for people in the united states that want this vote to happen that happened to be of irish decent. reporter: [inaudible] >> well i think what is going to happen, over next period of time, first we have to see who

is prime minister. i think it's a very important decision. we'll see what happens over in the uk because that will be a decision number one, who is going to be prime minister. once that happens, that person will get in and try to make a deal. maybe if they don't make a deal, they do it a difficult way but i know one thing, ireland will be in great shape. ireland is, special place. it will be in very good shape. i don't think the border is going to be a problem at all. reporter: sir, did you see reports of executions in north korea, folks who were involved in your summit, does that worry you at all, that kim would execute these people? >> i don't know if the reports are correct because one of the gentlemen who we deal with, this is north korea they're talking about, somebody that we know well. he is a strong man. he is a strong person. and they like to blame kim jong-un immediately he was killed. he wasn't.

he wasn't killed. the other four people i know nothing about. it is a interesting situation. i think they would like to make a deal. we'll make a deal with them. we'll see how it goes. it goes pretty well, because there hasn't been testing of anything major. frankly there is no nuclear testing over long period of time. before i became president, as you know, it was all the time, nuclear testing, ballistic missile testing. now there is nothing. i think the chairman kim would like to make a deal. i would like to make a deal with him. i look forward to seeing him at the appropriate time. again, one of the people that we're talking about, supposedly executed, wasn't executed at all. port. [all talking at once] >> thank you, everyone. reporter: [inaudible] >> the corporations tax, the fact it is so low? it's a very low tax i have to agree. we have our tax very, very low. but they have done a very good job in ireland.

your prime minister has kept it there. there is lot of great companies there. >> thank you. [all talking at once] >> thank you very much, everybody. >> thank you. thank you, guys. [inaudible conversations]. >> having a meeting at 3:00 today. and look -- has to step up f they don't tariffs will go on. if they go high, companies will move back into the united states. it is very simple. the people will have to worry about paying the tax because the companies will move back in to the united states. there won't be any tariff. as far as china is concerned, china wants to make a deal, i have no doubt about it. every signal is they want to and at the right time, probably that will happen but right now they're paying many billions of dollars to the united states. we never got that before from

china. we haven't even started. it is peanuts compared to the numbers we're talking about but i think china wants to make a deal. mexico you know wants to make a deal. they have their entire delegation right now going over to probably the white house location but negotiating with our people, set up by mike pompeo, bob light highsers and mike -- lighthizer is involved and mike pence w very a great crew. mexico, the drugs coming in, people coming in unchecked. they're coming up by the millions. mexico can stop it. they have to stop it. otherwise we won't be able to do business. it is very simple thing. i think they will stop it. i think they want to do something, to make a deal. they sent their top people. we'll see what happens today. wee zoo what happens. >> thank you very much. thank you very much. >> thank you very much.

>> thank you, sir. >> [inaudible]. neil: you heard the president make a lot of news there with the irish prime minister, talking about the fact he is very confident that a successful conclusion to brexit will be had ireland will not be harmed. a lot of problem brits having to get into ireland and and and getting back into britain. he talked about this, we'll get into this in a second about the on going tariff talks going on with the secretary of state, vice president of the united states and the finance minister of mexico. they're gathering with top officials to avoid imposition of tariffs on $300 billion worth of goods that come into the united states, mostly agricultural items. one interesting footnote, one of the few big western nations that

have lower tax rate than we do, in fact dramatically lower, 12 1/2% compared to 21% that the president brought down from high of 35% in this country. that has enabled ireland to grow rapidly. now there is concern the irish economy is sputtering a little bit. their definition of sputtering to put it in perspective, growing at 4% clip right now from 6 1/2% last year. so, we would probably envy that type of growth seeing our is noteworthy at 3.2%. but i hasten to add there, a lot of this push for lower rates in this country started with with the notion that ireland is enticing big american companies like dell, host of others found lower tax rate to be much more intriguing and doing, expanding operations in the united states of america. president acknowledging to the corporate rate they still beat

us on that. of course this is a long harmonious relationship our two countries had. it is an iconic moment when president of the united states visits ireland. there are big moments harken back to the time of ronald reagan visiting a pub in dublin or john kennedy, visiting his ancestral home outside of shannon ireland. this president who has scottish roots get back to that, get back to the people where he remains quite popular despite some protests that have been generated. back to these talks right now. forget china. we'll get into that in a second but more immediate threat is what is happening on the tariff front with the mexicans. that will be immediate. that you will feel as they kick in next week with 5% tariffs on a host of items that come from south of the border. it will directly impact a lot of businesses that move south of the border as well. let's get latest from jackie deangelis on the powwow.

she joins us out of washington. reporter: good afternoon, neil. you heard the president reference a meeting 3:00 in his comments. top mexican officials will be here including the foreign secretary. mike pence, secretary of state mike pompeo, they all will be discussing that 5% tariff that could go on mexico's imports of more than $300 billion as you mentioned on june 10th. that is on monday. of course the deadline is coming at a very critical time here, there was progress made, so it seemed in terms of usmca. businesses were taking a breath. the stock market was taking a breath as well. the question if this tariff goes on monday, dealing with border issues what kind of impact it will have. the impact on new tariffs, it will impact everything that comes across the border. we're looking at things like metals, televisions, fruits, vegetables. more specifically every-day items you use, nuts, avocado,

beer, tea, even musical instruments. now you have trade advisor peter navarro says tariffs may not have to take effect on cnn because he says the u.s. has the mexicans attention. it seems with this meeting today but the question of course can we get past some of the preliminary negotiations in terms of progress made here today, actually come up with an agreement where the tariffs will not be imposed on monday. remember these tariffs could go as high as 25% by october if some sort of a deal isn't reached, neil. neil: jackie, thank you very, very much. this caused disruption not only south of the border but in this country but democrats concerned that the president may risk things with opening salvo that might ham ear deal they were trying to ratify but among fellow republicans. fox news senior capitol hill producer chad pergram on that,

what things look like right now. what is foes on here? >> we don't know there will be a resolution that will move through the house and the senate to rebuke the president or try to block implementation of the tariffs with mexico. point you to something ron wyden, democratic senator from oregon, top democrat on the senate finance committee a bit ago. he said you have to have a veto-proof supermajority. we hear these rattlings of republicans on a lot of issues from time to time, that they fold. what that tells me, neil, its about the math, it is about the math, it is about the math. they will not pull the trigger if they don't think they can get 67 votes in the senate, 2/3 vote and 290 in the house of representatives. that will be key. lindsey graham, republican senator from south carolina, he argues maybe the whole issue is to force the mexicans to the table. listen to this. >> give us a chance to work something out with mexico. i doubt if any republican will say that mexico is doing all they can.

they have definitely done things better but if i were the republican senators i would give the president a chance to see if he can get better action out of mexico before i undercut him. >> house speaker nancy pelosi met with the mexican foreign minister at the capitol yesterday. she just had a press conference this morning. was asked about the tariffs, she said, quote, this is a dangerous process. this is no way to treat a friend. pelosi says they don't have a piece of paper from the administration how they would implement this. the other question, does this interfere with passage of the usmca? depending on who you talk to, house republicans they think this really doesn't affect things. when i asked the mexican foreign minister yesterday, he said this was already before the mexican senate. he didn't think it would interfere with the process. but you talk to a lot of other folks say how can we possibly be threatening mexico with the tariffs, saying get along with us on these other issues? that is real problem, neil. how they resolve that sun clear. neil: do they have enough votes

in that case to override a veto, assuming the president would do that? >> you would think that most democrats, if not all would join that in the house and senate. the big question is, republicans. steny hoyer, the house majority leader was asked that question yesterday. he said there have been a couple of occasions we've been far from that veto-proof super majority in the house of representatives. keep in mind what happened on the yemen resolution. also on the effort to over, go over the head of the president on the veto, on the national emergency for the border. so they have not really been in the ballpark. it is not a handful of votes. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is reluctant to put it on the floor if it is not clear it will pass. neil: chad, thank you very much. we're focusing on fear this will lead to disruption in the global economy, certainly the u.s. economy. remember jerome powell yesterday, chairman of federal reserve said i have your back if that happens, paraphrasing, that he would be at the ready, federal reserve would be at the

ready to lower interest rates if things hit the fan at the same time, or ensuing slow down taken as a given. only debate is how much after slowdown, if there is impasse with china, mexico, you know the drill here. let's get the read from former dallas federal reserve advisor, danielle dimartino booth, former commerce secretary under president barack obama and nicole hill and "wall street journal's" james freeman. james, it seems to be the president might be more emboldened to push hard on mexico tariffs issues and with china because the federal reserve all but indicated if things blow up here, we're here. what do you think? >> i think the message, the message can be confusing or harmful. we think of the obama era, when the government was putting heavy tax and regulatory burden on the economy and fed trying to offset

that, creating growth, spent years essentially emergency monetary policy, rates near zero for years. we don't want to see a replay here. i think in the president's defense, this is very different from that situation. chinese agree to open our economy, stop stealing intellectual property the tariffs could come down quickly. neil: the more immediate appears to be mexico, mexico will be have stablizeing role, you have to flip that around, no matter politics. it would be endorsing the kind of maverick strategy on trade, the president is using here. >> well i think what works in the fed's favor, don't get me wrong, this is major pivot. after the federal reserve meeting he was adamant he would

not put a extra rate cut out there in order to cushion the economy. so he really changed his stance in terms of how he views the trade war. but there really does, it comes down to actual damage done to the economy, three straight cuts in auto production. auto sales were down again in may. f things go all the way to deaf con 1 as of october the first -- defcon 1 as of october first. you talk about production decline in the united states. those are jobs cut in high-paying industries. we saw this morning, our weakest jobs report, the biggest miss in the adp since the summer of 2009. so right now, the fed has to pay attention not to collateral damage from the trade war, but to actual economic data starting to suggest that markets are rightly pricing in up to two or three rate cuts just this year. neil: you know, nicole, i don't know, during the obama years, it

is odd during these trump years that even in the middle of a significant trade impasse, one could drag the economy, marketed at least two days running could be up. in fact since we first went to blows with china, a little more than year three months ago, the markets are up in the vicinity of three to 4%. does that surprise you? >> well it does, i think that, one of the concerns we heard from our clients, these tactics are very market distortive, they're unpredictable, really in terms of long term business planning it, makes it very difficult for u.s. companies to balance their interests here. i continue to be concerned about about the president's alternate use of national security as a lever in trade negotiations and in this case with mexico, tariffs as a lever in border security issues. i think that we really need to be careful because manufacturing

companies in particular, the automotive companies were mentioned, they trade, their parts go in various levels of completion across the u.s.-mexico border several times tariffs will be tame for the u.s. manufacturing companies that rely on the supply chain. neil: talking about back and forth nature. breaking news with the president in ireland and bernie sanders at walmart annual meeting that cut into your time. we'll continue to follow up what bernie sanders is pressing walmart to do and soon. letting you know following the president right now in ireland. he is, the third president with some roots to that region who has visited ireland. it was john kennedy who visited the ancestral home. visited at time what he called the four best days of his life in june of 1963.

the county wexford, ireland, where he met with relatives he had never seen before. 20 years later ronald reagan returned to dublin, where he was feated at a local pub. they rebuilt the pub to scale at the reagan library to celebrate that iconic moment. what they do with this president visiting at this time anyone's guess but he is a popular figurethis area for some of the stances he has taken, not across the board but on the very fact he has some roots in the neighborhood. we'll have more after this. is doing the things that i want to do, not the things i have to do. unlike seattle, less than half of americans participate in their employer retirement plans. so what keeps people more engaged in their retirement? i want to have the ability to easily transact online, great selection of funds, great advice, everything in one place.

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i don't want any trade minimums. yeah, i totally agree, they don't have any of those. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. do you just say yes to everything? hm. well i say no to kale. mm. yeah, they say if you blanch it it's better, but that seems like a lot of work. no hidden fees. no platform fees. no trade minimums. and yes, it's all at one low price. td ameritrade. ♪ neil: all right. you heard a lot about bernie sanders. he has been attending the walmart shareholders meeting going on in rogers, arkansas. i don't know if he is a shareholder. i don't know how he got in there. now speaking outside there. but jeff flock does. obviously he is talking about pay, not adequate pay or

benefits. how did he get in there? reporter: he came, he saw, i don't know he conquered. walmart invited him, allowed him to come in. there is shareholder proposal he supports which would put, not demand people on the board hourly workers, but would ask walmart to consider hourly workers being members of the board. the person who wanted to put that forth was a walmart employee and a shareholder. can bernie speak for me. walmart said yes. bernie said yes. he was respectful. stayed for allotted time, speaking for the resolution. i've been out here on the streets. i'm not sure if it passed. i would be willing to wager a month's pay it didn't pass because walmart was against it. listen to bernie sanders as he made a plea inside the shareholders meeting for the hourly workers on the walmart

board. listen. >> it's a little bit absurd that many, many, walmart employees are forced to go on government programs like medicaid or food stamps, or public housing, subsidized by the taxpayers of this country. reporter: dug mcmillan, the ceo of walmart spoke before bernie sanders. i tell you, almost sounded like he was making a speech to sanders. he was talking about very issues, about what walmart has done, they increased wages by 50% to $11 an hour, not $15 an hour. as you know, costco, amazon, they are now at $15 an hour. so is i believe target. so you know, he makes his point, folks at walmart make their point. they talked about people have gone from part-time workers to full-time workers, 175,000 last

year. he talked about sustainability efforts. almost, i thought a speech to sanders as much as a speech to the shareholders. shareholders would say, you're paying people less? you're competing with these guys? you ought to have better profits. actually they did last year. neil: i admire them for letting him in. going ahead to state his case. reporter: he was respectful. they were respectful. it was one of the moments. he said his piece. listened to what walmart had to say about his piece -- neil: you and i have not seen that in corporate america that often. we'll follow it very, very closely. thank you. the president is meeting with the irish prime minister and what is fascinating about this ireland was a catalyst for the big corporate tax cuts. we took them from 35% to 21%. a lot of republicans argued at the time, that is a big slash, but we're almost double what the rates are in ireland which has 12 1/2% corporate tax rate and

has enticed so many companies around the world to do business there, move their headquarters there, including a good deal of american companies. so it does seem a fitting time for the president to talk just that, the allure of lower taxes and the environment it provides. ireland, the economy itself is one of the strongest in europe but i also want to posit it has come down from its highs. it still has overall gdp a little bit north than 4%, handily better than our own at 3%, not the six plus percent is was personning, the envy of the world. edward lawrence in london. reporter: president talking about brexit, what happens with northern ireland with the prime minister there. we have a couple comments from the president a couple minutes ago. listen. >> a lot of trade business together, a lot of tourism together and maybe most importantly, you are certainly one of the leading countries in

terms of people moving and coming to the united states. reporter: as the president is talking trade, talking with the irish prime minister, he is talking trade with ireland. he is also talking trade with the united kingdom. they're in a bilateral meeting with ireland there. president xi xinping is meeting with his counterpart in russia, president vladmir putin, they are marking actually the 70th anniversary of the relationship between those two countries going forward today. now president trump, first his day today, honored the royal pageantry, it is all behind him. he honored those who are fallen in d-day. those who sacrificed the lives of freedom of history, as he calls it, saved history for the world is what the president said. the president honored those who died in normandy landing. he was in portsmouth where many of the troops involved in d-day launched from. on the trade front here in the united kingdom i had an exclusive interview with the man who will negotiate the trade deal between the u.s. and the

united kingdom. he says the united kingdom would like more access to our markets. he would like to see greater access to agriculture. he wants tariffs to come down, specifically ceramics. ceramics coming into the united states are tariffed at 28% from the united kingdom. he says the united kingdom would be more favorable to digital data companies here in the united kingdom than the european union his. he talked about the national health care system would be originally part of a trade deal, walked that back a bit. in no uncertain terms the trade representative said it is off the table. listen. >> regulation of public services is usually reserved in a trade agreement. we certainly would reserve the right to, to govern our own health service in any agreement. it is in the agreement we made with canada for example. it would be the same. so nhs would not be for sale. reporter: closed-door bilateral

with the irish prime minister going on right now, is expected to last about another 20 minutes. back to you, neil. neil: edward, you're talking to everybody, my friend. way to go. edward lawrence in middle of this global fixation. reporter: covering europe. neil: a lot going on with the mexico thing. we told you a little bit earlier a lot of republicans are not the a fan of president throwing up tariffs after trade deal was secured. waiting to ratified with the mexicans and canadians. canadians are trying to make sure their part of the deal is ratified. confusion is reining rampant right now. americans for prosperity president tim phillips says this will be effectively mean a massive tax increase on you. as tim likes to remind us, important to remember, governments don't pay tariffs, we do? >> that is exactly right. when you see the president threatening another round of tariffs with another country, this timex co, it is alarming. when you look at texas, arizona,

every state across the country, american consumers are hurt by this, neil. it does hurt mexico, no question about that, but it hurts every american as well, especially americans on fixed incomes. we get a lot of our food and other necessities via trade from mexico. they will be hit the hardest by these new taxes via tariffs. neil: we do know about the meeting that will involve the foreign secretary. he will be speaking to mike pompeo, our secretary of state, the vice president of the united states. i'm just wondering what everyone can agree to? the mexicans they say were caught off-guard. they had no warning. we're told that many in the administration had no idea the president would do this especially after securing a deal with the mexicans and canadians, how do you think it goes? >> imagine the consternation you negotitated a in good faith a trade deal with the united states. the president turns around and slaps you with a threat of additional brand new, out of the

sky tariffs? it can't be helpful for your confidence in those new trade deals which are crucial. so i do hope this is rhetoric, but, neil, when you think about the last two years, folks said that the steel and aluminum tariff threats were going to be rhetorical. they actually happened. now we have higher prices on steel and aluminum in this country. they said it would be just rhetoric with regard to china. but we now have massive new tariffs with china are impacting american businesses, farmers especially. and consumers. it is worrisome. we're hoping cooler heads will prevail here but these tariffs risk undermining the very real economic growth that is happening across this country. i see it every day out there, neil. i know you do too. because of the tax cuts and tax reform this administration and congress brought and also the effort to get rid of unnecessary red tape and regulation. they're undermining that with these tariff wars across the world. neil: you know, tim, i always

learn something talking to but one thing is obvious i hadn't thought of it before, if you're china, trying to enter into a trade agreement with the united states, and you see the united states pull, for whatever reasons, they might be perfectly valid, the rug out from under the mexicans in a trade deal that was already signed, sealed, almost delivered, why should they entertain trusting the president again? >> well that is part of this. i mean the rule of law, keeping your word when you say, hey we have an agreement in place. i'm going to keep it. and not, not just deciding i will wake up this morning, slap new tariffs that break agreements you reached in good faith, through good, tough, negotiating with other countries, it can't be good for any other country around the world. that is just another reason along with the pain that is it going to be caused by these new tariffs to american consumers and businesses and farmers. neil: tim, thank you very, very much. to tim's point, keep in mind we

are frustrated with the chinese because they had suddenly done a 180 on things they thought we agreed to. so the talks are off. now essentially we're doing the same with mexico, and chinese are saying you know what? you're off. after this. i'm really into this car,

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your daily dashboard from fidelity. a visual snapshot of your investments. key portfolio events. all in one place. because when it's decision time... you need decision tech. only from fidelity. neil: you know markets love low interest rates. if they're low for the right reasons. in other words, they don't want it to sort of presage a big slowdown or recession. when the federal reserve telegraphed you know what? things get out of control from a trade impasse or headwinds from that, we'll step in and maybe cut rates. expectation we could see maybe one, maybe two more rate cuts this year. that could be a boon looking to those refinancing hopes they're in or home they don't have. a new report says 5.9 million americans can potentially save money refinancing at multiyear lows. 30 rate fixed mortgage is 4.19%.

what is the rule of thumb on this sort of thing, david, when rates are at these levels? when should you jump in and take advantage? >> thanks for having me, neil. i think generally when rates are lower you want to refinance especially if you're in adjustable rate mortgage, have an opportunity to go into a fixed-rate to lock that price in but where we are now after many years of bouncing around historically low market most people have refinanced and those 5.9 million potential leads are very hard to close and, they probably not watching your show. we've got to, really, yes, help them get into a long-term fixed-rate mortgage but more importantly we shouldn't be banking on that to goose the economy. as you mentioned, people are worried about whether or not this trade war will cause a recession. that is a real worry. neil: there are so-called

cashless closing on some home equity loans, second mortgages, and the like. some require money up front. they're not freebies. >> right. neil: you have to factor that in. the old rule of thumb, if it's a half-point or more do it. do you subscribe to that? >> easily half a point but you have to be very careful when we say cashless that means cash out of your pocket, not cash out of the home equity. during the crisis we saw equity stripping people were put into mortgages they couldn't maintain. neil: you're right. >> they didn't have the equity there as a byou. so it is very, people say cashless, you're still paying for it. neil: one way or the other. coming out of equity or paying cash up front. let me ask you quickly about the environment for housing right now. i am surprised given the low rates and this is the case before they got really low in the last couple weeks that there hasn't been more of a boon for the housing industry or even

mortgage refinancings and the like, and is it because of the economic concerns you raised, fears of a slowdown, what is it? >> we're still dealing with some of the fallout from the crisis and one of the things that we've seen is a big drop in the amount of new homes we're building. just to stay even with the amount of homes that get lost to obsolescence, new household formation, we could have a build a quarter of a million single family units every year and we're not. you have to double that to keep up where things were over a very long period of time prior to the crisis. so i think we, one of the reasons housing prices are so high is the rule of supply and demand. we're not building enough homes. we have to build more affordable homes. to stay afloat, a lot of homebuilders focused on high-priced, easy to sell homes. that was a good move for them at the time but we lost a lot of homebuilders building more

affordable housing. we have to make it possible for them to do that. there are regulatory reasons. there are credit reasons. we look at all of those things and i think we've got a lot of work ahead of to us have a truly healthy housing market. neil: you're right. this is one of the few areas where it is not trickle down but trickle up. that has been rough. >> in part because of regulatory restrictions, in part because of fear of the crisis, for other reasons, we're taking about half of the mortgage credit we were when times were good, not the runup to the crisis where it was quite dangerous but really in a period of very healthy lending. we're going to have to open up to allow people who don't have bad credit, but they don't have pristine credit either. they need to be a part of this, to take advantage of these rate. neil: well-said, david. you explained it in english so

even my thick skull could understand it. always good seeing you. be well. >> thanks. neil: we are waiting to hear from the president of the united states. there might be one more opportunity after he wraps up a one-on-one closed-door meeting with the irish prime minister. a interesting development with brexit in ireland. few people talk about this. there is a fear can we get back and forth between ireland and britain. you know what is not resolved in that brexit thing? the disparity in rates, 12 1/2%. in britain it is around 17 or 18%. part of the brexit deal, how do we rectify this so it is not such a huge disparity? that is gotten to be a backburner issue, but where would you go in that environment? where would you invest? where you can pay about 12% or in england where it is 17 or 18%? that's a problem. people are not talking about it with brexit. another element of ajita that

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>> i think we should be scrutinized. i don't think anybody reasonable will come to the conclusion apple is a monopoly.

our share is much more modest. we don't have a dominant position in any market. neil: that is what tim cook hopes, the government busy looking at it, a host of high-tech heavyweights, facebook, google, amazon, is sort of unscathed in this process. that might be easier said than done, to tech analyst, dan ives. dan what is interesting, still have congress, democrats and republicans fairly united have to be looked at, apple is included. where is this going? >> there is a bright spotlight not just on apple but google and facebook. i continue to think it is more noise versus reality in terms of what will happen here but nonetheless this is a big risk for investors especially when it comes to facebook or google but apple being brought into it, this is not what the street wanted to hear, especially with the u.s.-china battle going on. neil: you mentioned the u.s.-china battle, that to me

would be more immediate concern for apple. tim cook has gone out of his way to say the chinese have not targeted his company but we know the chinese are fingering fedex and ford. it is just a matter of time before they go after apples, nikes, some companies with ample exposure is there. does that play into your thoughts on apple? >> right now the biggest risk for apple and cookies china. why right now, members from the demand as well as supply, 20% of iphones coming out of china next 12 to 18 months, from demand perspective. foxconn continues to be the main production facility. they have become the poster-child for u.s.-china trade wars. why cook preemptively is trying to do some pr around this. nonetheless this continues to be a white-knuckle period for apple specifically on the china situation. neil: i wonder whether apple is more of a position of strength with china than credited. if i'm with china, all the

phones, good chunk are manufactured in my country, employing a lot of my people, i'm not eager to get too tough what is a cash cow, am i? >> that has been our thesis. you employ 1.4 million chinese as apple does with cook, he is basically a pseudo ambassador between the u.s. and china of the last thing china will do, shoot themselves in the foot here, given how strategic apple is in china not just as an employer but strategically has a company but i think it is more of a bark versus bite between apple and china. right now they really want to see if there is any demand degradation. so far we're not seeing that in china. neil: what is weird, all these companies, apple wasn't among them, moved their operations to mexico, to get over whatever exposure they have to china. now it is like a double-whammy. we'll see how that goes. dan, thank you very much.

good seeing you. second day running, stocks running up 500 points yesterday. 153 today. some say relief the fed has president's back, if things go crazy on the trade front. david stockman, ronald reagan's budget director, is saying you guys are nuts. this should not be the reaction. you're getting something really, really wrong. he is going to be here really, really soon. rather than worry about how to pay for long-term care. brighthouse smartcare℠ is a hybrid life insurance and long-term care product. it protects your family while providing long-term care coverage, should you need it. so you can explore all the amazing things ahead. talk to your advisor about brighthouse smartcare. brighthouse financial. build for what's ahead℠

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-- going to have to step up and if they don't, tariffs will go on. if they go high, the companies will move back into the united states. that's all. it's very simple. the people don't have to worry because the companies will move back into the united states. there won't be any tariffs. neil: he's not right on that. he said it might happen where a lot of companies move to the united states or he hopes, but these 5% tariffs that are going into effect next monday, you will pay that. governments don't pay it. the companies, they pass that along, you pay that. we are focusing on that. also, the president as he wraps up his one-on-one with the irish prime minister with melania trump, of course, tomorrow is the big day in normandy to celebrate and look back at 75 years from the liberation that is of historic proportion. he will be there, the leader of every major western power in the world will be there. one of the things the president

has said about what's going on with mexico is that they've got to do something. the mexicans were caught off guard with this because they thought they had a trade deal with the united states, then this issue at the border and using trade as a lever to correct that situation appeared out of nowhere. the foreign secretary is meeting with the vice president later on today, the secretary of state, so hope springs eternal. folks are hoping that maybe, maybe an agreement can be had to avoid the dust-up the president is already facing from fellow republicans. susan li on all of that. >> well, we do have this high level meeting set to take place at the white house this afternoon between the mexican delegation, as you mention, and vice president mike pence. trade rep lighthizer and secretary of state mike pompeo will be there as well, since president trump is still in europe. what they are trying to do is trying to stave off the imposition of these 5% tariffs on all mexican goods coming into the country which as you said will ultimately hurt the

consumers. mexico is a key supplier when it comes to fresh fruit and vegetables, blue jeans, cars, tvs and the like. let's drill down closer into the agricultural trade. this might surprise you because it surprised me. when you take a look at the ratio between the u.s. and mexico, it's almost even, meaning the u.s. buys as much as they sell into mexico. they export about $20 billion, they import around $26 billion and mexican fresh fruits and vegetables, biggest agricultural export, about $5 billion each every year and yes, that does include those avocados. the u.s. sources about 80% of their avocados coming from mexico. then beer, what about corona beer? i don't drink beer but apparently that's the third largest consumable export coming from mexico. chipotle, by the way, in terms of how it's going to impact your wallet, chipotle has been selling down the last two days in reaction to possible tariffs and say they will have to raise

their burrito prices by five cents if these tariffs do go into place. what about the markets? i gave you this to look at because i think it's interesting that bank of america merrill lynch, goldman sachs came out with a note how will this impact the market and company profits. down 1% in 2019 and goldman sachs says if it goes up to 25% tariffs in october, that's a drawdown of 5% on company profits which doesn't sound like a lot but for these companies that don't make huge margins, that might be a lot for this year. we did have some optimism coming from the trade rep, trade adviser peter navarro this morning which is probably helping lift the markets today, telling another news outlet the mexican tariffs may not have to go into effect because the administration have the mexicans' attention. will they come to a deal? i think that's still remaining to be seen. neil: thank you very much. susan li. republicans certainly hope the president comes to a deal because they don't want to do what they are thinking of doing,

and forcing the president's hand here to say if you pursue this on your own, in other words, you trade the lever to get something that has nothing to do with trade, we think you are going way beyond the powers provided in the constitution. the daily news foundation editor and chief chris bedford on where that stands. what's startling is a number of republican senators who are saying no, no, no, rob portman of ohio was with me yesterday saying no, i don't like this idea. chuck grassley, a host of others, mitch mcconnell. there is a bit of a brush fire here. what do you see happening? >> big difference between this administration and the last administration is the last administration would start negotiations by saying what was not on the table, whereas the trump administration will always say over and over again, everything is on the table including tariffs in this case. i think senate republicans don't have the ability to do this. kevin mccarthy make it clear earlier today that his caucus stands with the president on this. unless nancy pelosi can peel off 55 republicans to back it,

they're not going to get that veto-proof majority in the house. the senate seems to be weakening the position but it's not surprising because the u.s. senate has always been a hotbed of more traditional reagan style free market conservatism and has been much slower to catch on to trump economics than maybe the house has. neil: they are worried, too, about the economic fallout of th this, if the president kept everything on the table here and nothing was off the table, but we did secure a trade agreement with the mexicans, and with the canadians, and what's to stop those republicans from saying you know, mr. president, once you give your word, people expect that you are going to stick to that. >> that's been a big complaint among senate republicans and house republicans, they can't always trust where the president is going to go. this tariff warning kind of caught them by surprise, including mexican negotiators. but there are some early signs it's actually working. increased cooperation and mexican authorities admitting their southern border is basically porous.

they are catching one-fourth, one-fifth of the amount of immigrants at their northern border than we are on the other side. so they can do more. i understand senate republicans' point of view on that. it could cause a lot of trouble for that trade agreement. neil: thank you very much. chris bedford. i want to highlight this and get into this with our next guest. the mexican president has received an official list of proposed retaliatory tariffs that could be imposed on u.s. products if the president goes ahead with these tariffs set to take effect on monday. i want to get reaction to that because this is the trade war we never really envisioned. scott shallady and gary b. smith join me. scott, he has been saying this is the one to watch because this is the one that will have the more immediate impact. it might be resolved but it's the one he's worried about. are you? >> yeah, i am. i think the headliner is china

because it's so big but yeah, something so close to home as mexico, that's going to be the one we have to keep our eye on. you know, i guess it's not going to be a gamble if it works. and some of them, some folks, i think in the republican camp, are looking like it looks like we are fake punting on our own 30. that's how they feel about this might not be the right thing to do. if it works, it's the right thing to do. if it doesn't work, it's going to go down in history as a bad mistake. the markets right now are still focused on china because it's more broad, but i absolutely agree, this is the one to watch because it's so close to home and there are so many goods we equally trade back and forth. neil: gary b. smith, to scott's point, if the markets were worried about this and the mixed signals we're sending, as i often like to say here, they have a funny way of showing it. they are up a lot today, they were up a lot yesterday. presumably on the belief the fed has the president's back. they didn't say it like that, but they do, if they cut rates

to deal with this. what do you think? >> i agree with you. i agree with scott. i think the market's waiting to see what trump actually does with these tariffs. i still think the market thinks it's a bluff at this point, whereas china, we already know what's happening. we already, there's been a timetable laid out and trump is sticking pretty close to it. the other point that scott made, the big difference is mexico is pretty much an ally of ours. they are on our side. we are so intertwined with their economy. you have mexico to the south, you have canada to the north. it's all almost one big economy. whereas china, not so much. they are two big superpowers but we break things with mexico, i think it goes far deeper than trade. that's what would worry me. neil: normally when the fed talks about lowering rates or signaling that they might, that is always greeted favorably. i get that.

but if you sit back and really think about it, is there going to be a time where the market says wait a minute, what does the fed see that i don't? i like low rates, that's the traditional market view. but what if they're saying they're lowering them for the reasons that might disturb folks that we're going into something bad? what do you think? >> i am worried about the fed worrying about where the stock market is and saying they are going to fight any issue with china with rates. i think that's a bad idea, bad precedent to set. here's where i sit. we have great research that comes across our desk and the bond market dwarfs the equity market. the bond market is flashing amber yellow, warning, warning, will robinson. we are expecting now to see these rates, these ten-year rates go below 2% and maybe a lot lower than 2%. that's going to be because we might see a stall of the economy and china slowing down but cheap

money, that really starts to squeeze margins and it's not as productive as most people might think it is. we have been trying to get inflation caught on fire here for the last ten years. it's just not worked. so we are not as strong as we think we are. now with the fed coming out saying they will worry about what the stock market's doing, i'm really starting to get a little antsy about where this whole thing is going in the first place and the bond market's telling me i should be worried. neil: gary b., individual investors see developments that they can buy based on headlines or sell based on headlines. you have always been a longer term, eye from the sky kind of view of things. what is that view right now? >> i'm worried. the reason is maybe for the same reasons the fed is worried. i don't think the fed is keeping, as scott alluded to, its eyes on the stock market as it is to our overall growth. i don't think the fed should be quite frankly concerned with growth, more focused on inflation which there really is none, but that being said, there

really is an overall economic slowdown. china is slowing from its rapid growth. our latest gdp numbers show it's growing. retail sales show it's growing. manufacturing output, all signs not to belabor it, shows there is definitely a slowdown. this whole tariff war is certainly not going to help things. it's going to exacerbate this slowness even more. that's what worries me for the long term. then you just don't have the multiples that are behind the amazon and google, as much as i love those companies, people will slow down their shopping at walmart, so it is a concern. neil: i want to thank you both very, very much. we are following the president in ireland. i guess he's going to be going to his golf course so he will be doing that. he's already indicated that he trusts that they will make progress on these talks with mexico, that his vice president will be having and secretary of state will be having with that country's foreign secretary.

the mexican president, though, has been on the wires over the last 24 hours saying that deportations are way up in mexico so he essentially is saying i don't know what the president is talking about. more after this. i'm working to keep the fire going for another 150 years. ♪ to inspire confidence through style. ♪ i'm working to make connections of a different kind. ♪ i'm working for beauty that begins with nature. ♪ to treat every car like i treat mine. ♪ at adp we're designing a better way to work, so you can achieve what you're working for. ♪

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neil: all right. despite all the trade headwinds

and all the other stuff, the cbs/viacom merger may be getting closer than you think. charlie gasparino is following this closely. >> if it happens. you never know. last minute it just blows up. if it happens, this is where we have the state of play. as of last night, the boards are talking, they are discussing. what we know is this. if it does happen, we are hearing and it is progressing towards a late june/early july date. if it needs to it can be pushed out further but they are working fairly significantly and rapidly on this. the way i understand it, both companies are not equal, you should know. cbs is a much bigger market cap, i think $20 billion market cap versus 13. check my numbers but it's in that range. still, the board members are looking to create at least on paper what looks like a merger of equals between these two companies, cbs with its premium sports and broadcasts and you know all the stuff they do, viacom with mtv, nickelodeon and other properties. they want to make it a merger of equal but under the discussion,

cbs shareholders because the stock is higher, it's a more valuable company, clearly get a premium. a new co is created, maybe they get two and a half shares for every one of their shares. because it's a more valuable company, they get a little more money. at least that's the plan as of now. again, it could change. here's where it gets interesting. there's going to be a management issue here. shari redstone, long in her father's shadow, right, she now from what i understand there's a good chance she becomes the chairwoman of the combined company. she's now the vice chairwoman. sumner is still alive, her father, who put together this media empire. he's now very sick, ailing. she's now essentially de facto controlling it through national amusements, the holding company. she becomes from what i understand, if this thing happens, she becomes the chairwoman of the combined entity. the ceo is as we reported on your show last week, likely to be bob bakish, the head of via come, because he has a very close relationship with shari. the real uncertainty involves

the current ceo of cbs, joe ianniello. nobody knows what's going to go on with him if bakish emerges as the ceo. does he stay. he's got a very good contract, by the way. like millions, $70 million golden parachute. neil: kind of like yours. >> i just wish it was. wish it were. because i would be so out of here. neil: yes. >> so out of here. but joe ianniello's situation is uncertain if this happens. one other thing i got to stress. people close to the deal tell me the situation is fluid. it could change. but this is what's on the table now. you know, it's not a deal until you see the paper. they have been down this road before. someone else might buy it. we should point out on reporting it looks like cbs is off its lows. what's viab? there we go. there you go. little bit up.

that's where we are right now. by the way, fascinating, the two should be married or could be married just as the sun valley media conference, big company conference in sun valley. neil: are you going? >> that's the one i was thrown out of, as you know. i may be going to that. neil: don't tease us. are you going? >> i think so. i don't know. maybe they don't want to send me this year. neil: you're so rude. >> bob bakish, because the company doesn't like him, they threw him off a deal, did not get an invite. neil: is that right? >> absolutely true. here's the other interesting thing. if he goes, if this thing happens, just think, they will be dissing one of the biggest ceos in the world at a media conference. they're mad because they threw him off a deal and this is retribution. you can't go to our conference. neil: charlie gasparino, thank you very much. just to remind us, some viewers are correcting me including one

who says hey, cavuto, you are half irish so how could you screw up one of the most famous golf clubs on the planet. >> what did i call it? neil: whatever i said was wrong. donald trump's golf course. >> i have the worst fake irish accent. neil: your english isn't that great either. >> my italian is lousy as well. i can barely speak. neil: half italian, half irish, so don't start piling on me. a lot more coming up. we will follow the president, what he's going to say. we will get a preview of the coming attractions at the white house with the foreign secretary of mexico there. reading a lot of mexican press, at least english versions that have been coming in, they are thoroughly confused by this. they don't know what the president wants of them or what kind of concession they have to make. they thought they secured a trade deal with the united states and to hear them tell it, they don't know what's going on. i don't know whether that's just a bargaining chip and they are

just stating their case but we are already getting wind that the mexican president is putting together a list of targets in the u.s. to go tit for tat. here we go again. after this.

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neil: all right. a lot of you have been kind of zinging me for saying the mexico trade impasse is a big deal. i would argue it's maybe even a bigger deal in the immediate future for the time being, because this would take effect so rapidly. in other words, to get agricultural products to a grocery store, that's very very fast, it's rapid. so as soon as monday, you could see higher prices for fruit, vegetables, tequila, you name it. that would be more meaningful. the concern is more immediate. ken fisher, the world famous investor, is very concerned about that as well, saying that as things stand right now, that is the more immediate worrisome issue. he will be joining me 4:00 p.m.

on fox news later today. ahead of that, we've got indications that the potential mexican tariffs on the auto makers still unclear. mary barra talking about the fact this is an immediate worry and something they are looking at. this is sort of my way of telling you that those who have been criticizing that i have been making a big deal out of nothing, it's a big deal. all right? let's go to gerri willis on what is now a sad deal for gamestop. they ruled the game playing roost. anything but now, huh? reporter: shares of the video game store at a 16-year low, down around 37% after announcing its first quarter sales fell 13%, with expectations of another 5% to 10% drop by the end of the year. adding insult to injury, investors no longer receiving quarterly dividend payouts. instead, gamestop will be using that money for marketing and promotion to help increase

in-store traffic. analysts say gamestop's business is, well, suffering from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. a brick and mortar store selling physical games in an age where nearly all gaming is done online via streaming. think of gamestop as the blockbuster of its category, sort of the buggy whips are us of gaming. the company has closed hundreds of stores in the past two years. the stock down 62% year to date and 53% for the quarter. short interest in the stock, 39 million shares sold short, that is 40% of the float. back to you. neil: i should have listened to my oldest teenaged son. we were in gamestop when he and his brother were little and i said dad, it's all about streaming. i had no idea what that was. i thought we were going to go fishing. i should have listened. gerri, thank you very, very much. we have been telling you about this mexico development and the tariffs and

unpredictable nature of that. thep then we had drama building with gm chief executive mary barra saying the precise impact of the tariffs on auto makers are unclear but she is worried about it. to texas congressman bill flores. this is a more pressing concern than we thought, isn't it? >> it really is. the imposition of tariffs at this time with such a short trigger does cause some potential dislocation disruption. we've got to remember why the president is trying to do this. he's trying to do this because we have a humanitarian crisis on the border. we have a security crisis on the border. and congress has failed to act. congress needs to provide the funding to address those two issues. congress also needs to address the loopholes that traffickers using to try to market people coming across the border illegally. if we can get congress to act we wouldn't have to worry about the tariffs at this point. neil: are yyou are probably rig that. you are frustrated nothing's getting done, you pull out any

link in your weaponry to deal with it but are you concerned we are going after mexico using as a lever something that has nothing to do with trade? >> let me say i think tariffs are bad. i'm fine with using tariffs as tools to encourage people to negotiate. but primarily they should be used for trade types of discussions and trade disputes, not for diplomatic situation like we have with mexico. what i would like to see happen is now that we have a delegation from mexico up here visiting with secretary pompeo and vice president pence, i think it would be encouraging to see the president delay the imposition of the tariffs to allow the diplomacy to work and then during that intervening time period, see if we can find a better tool. for instance, maybe a tax on outboundaryremittances to mexic rather than tafriffs.

the president is frustrated with what's happening on the border and i understand that. congress has certainly caused most of that. neil: thank you for taking the time, sir. we are getting some updates on how mexico is responding. the mexican president has apparently received a list of retaliatory tariffs on a variety of u.s. businesses and products. we are not told what is on that list but that he is seriously considering it and that cited the sensitivity of the matter, but said the list is complete. they just don't know what items on that list they will pounce on next. which means that this is still escalating a lot. after this. jardiance asks...

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neil: all right. we were telling you about this mexican rift where the foreign secretary will be meeting at the white house i think in about an hour and a half or so. something interesting from former secretary of state rex tillerson from a global energy

conference just a few minutes ago that we are sending mixed signals to the world and to our friends, talking about bilateral trade talks that diminish if we keep changing our posture. he was also saying that this is confusing investors and he supports trade objectives but may not support the tactical moves of this administration. in other words, our friends with whom we secured a deal, suddenly to rip that up and start something else based on another matter he thinks is probably going to compound the suspicion that others have of us when we go into a deal. the former reagan budget director david stockman is equally concerned, joins me now. so the approach is what worries you? >> the approach, the message to the world is we have an unhinged man, madman, in the oval office. he has gone off the deep end on trade. he has basically declared himself the trade dictator.

he's using these statutes for reasons that were never intended. we have a border control problem, maybe we do, maybe we don't. you don't use a tariff on a border control problem. you don't investigate european auto makers because they are sending bmws and porsches to the united states and it's a national security problem. it's not a national security problem. he's totally abusing all of these statutes in order to carry out the worst mercantilist protectionist tariff driven trade policy. neil: can i use an analogy i hear from them? well, they did it first. they have been screwing us, now we are kind of zinging back. >> look, if they are going to fill their harbor with rocks, should we do the same thing? neil: the president says yes. b because that will have them less inclined to fill the harbor. >> this is big government in spades. neil: the president says when it comes to china, that's big government. >> they've got big government but we are doing the same thing, okay?

the problem today is our wages average about $30 an hour fully loaded for benefits, taxes, the rest of it. $5 an hour in china. this is an economic differential problem. we have a federal reserve that keeps inflating the u.s. economy at 2% a year which is crazy. we should be deflating, becoming more competitive. neil: then what did you make of the federal reserve essentially, i'm the one who said this, they didn't say it, that we have your back if this slows the economy down, we might cut rates? >> if you do something really stupid, then the fed is going to print even more money to compensate for the stupidity on trade policy. what are they thinking? neil: you think that's a mistake? >> horrible mistake. we have the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. we have a 119-month-old expansion, now the longest in history, and they are going to cut rates even further after we have had rates so low for ten years that they have been below the inflation rate? the fed shouldn't be in the business -- neil: we don't have much inflation now. >> the inflation rate is running

at 2%. everybody says we don't have much. it's still 2%. if you lower the funds rate which they want to do, the market prices in 70 basis points right now, that's 1.6% money market rate in a 2% inflation environment. that's money that costs nothing. neil: but if all this is a big worry -- >> wait a minute. neil: but if it's not showing up in the market. >> the markets are totally, you know, addicted to easy money from the fed. this has nothing to do with the outlook for the world economy. neil: don't you think if they were concerned the fed was behind the curve or doing something stupid, they would be selling off? >> no. this is the problem. the fed last fall said finally, we are going to normalize interest rates, get them above the inflation rate, we are going to take this bloated balance sheet of $4 trillion, begin to shrink it. the market went into a hissy fit. we had the christmas eve selloff and what did the fed do? they pivoted and basically capitulated to all the whiners and crybabies on wall street.

neil: you are making friends left and right. what happened with you and the president? you liked him in the beginning when he was running, didn't you? >> i voted for him. neil: what happened? >> i voted for him not because i thought he had a program. i knew he was a protectionist. but we didn't need any more hillary clinton, we didn't need any more establishment foreign policy intervening everywhere in the world. i thought he would try to bring us back to america first. he's tried but he's got so many bad advisers that -- neil: you just alluded to the record low unemployment and all that. >> it has nothing to do with trump, okay? this is -- neil: you blame him things are going to hell in a hand basket. >> no, no, a president doesn't cause the unemployment rate. capitalism does. neil: i know but you know the old drill. we are going to blame the president if things go south. he's got to get some credit -- ronald reagan, was it a reagan boom when you worked for him? >> it was a free market boom. neil: who got it booming? >> the government got out of the way, okay? neil: reagan got the government out of the way. would you give this president credit -- >> no, he's not getting the

government out of the way. neil: you don't think he's a reagan? >> he's the opposite of reagan. he's a big government anti-conservative. his policy violates every rule of the conservative free market economics i have ever heard of and i have been at this business since 1970. neil: but didn't ronald reagan violate a lot of that with deficits that you warned would take him to the woodshed moment, he went too far? >> he went too far but he didn't intend them. when it comes to trump, he doesn't care. he thinks debt is good. he calls himself the king of debt. neil: you hate debt. >> i hate debt in general but at this stage -- neil: we are doing just fine with it. >> at this stage -- of course, everybody is doing just fine with debt until they file for bankruptcy the next day. remember that old saying, how did you go bankrupt? slowly at first, then all of a sudden. okay. neil: you think it's just a matter of time, the debt is building up. give me an idea of exact time. >> in three years, there are going to be 11,600 people

retiring, the welfare state cost is going to soar in the 2020s. we should be now putting away -- neil: they never do that. >> -- reserves and we will go into the 2020s with massive explosion of spending with the debt heading to $40 trillion, not $20 trillion, where it is today, and the politics totally paralyzed because when you get 80 million baby boomers retired, there's never going to be any reform of the entitlements. it's too late. trump said no, we're not going to touch them. neil: democrats aren't eager to touch them either. >> of course. but the job of the republican party, i'm sorry, is to lead the way. neil: to be fair, ronald reagan did that with the great social security commission. >> yeah. i was part of that. right. okay. so the point is, we need fiscal rectitude. we are getting the opposite. neil: any of the democrats into that with you? >> no. i think it's fairly hopeless at the moment. it's going to be a contest. neil: man, oh, man, is anything going right? >> we are drifting towards some very bad, bad problems.

neil: tell me -- >> i think we are. we are drifting towards the debtberg. neil: what does that mean? >> business has more debt than ever before and when the economy turns down there's going to be bankruptcies left and right. the federal government didn't use this 119-month longest in history expansion to get its finances in order. even j.m. king rolling in his grave today said at the top of the business cycle this long, you have to have a surplus so you are ready for the next downturn. we didn't even do that. we have a federal reserve that kept interest rates so low for so long that we fueled speculation -- neil: those very low rates are what could make this debt -- unless you see them skyrocket. >> rates have to normalize. neil: they haven't. >> okay. neil: sometime in the 2020s. >> you will destroy the economy, if you have interest rates below the inflation rate, it means the real cost of money is negative. sooner or later you are going to create -- neil: we are kind of at the

level, right? inflation is 2%. >> okay, but on the ten-year basis, average under. do you want to invest your money for zero after inflation forever, then pay taxes on the nominal return you get? neil: people have been doing that for a decade. >> i know. and it's been wrong. it's been wrong. neil: for those who have been doing it for the last decade it's been wrong. >> the "titanic" was steaming across the atlantic at a pretty good clip until it hit an iceberg. neil: let me get your sense, then, if the president isn't re-elected and right now it looks like he could be but i don't know what your sense is, are second term presidents more inclined to address these kind of issues? i thought of george bush jr., when he was elected, trying to find ways to address entitlements, to do that. that's when you get the verve

for that. >> maybe you do but if you look at history, reagan didn't do anything about the deficit in his second term. george bush actually made it worse. neil: medicare prescription drugs. >> yeah. big increase in -- neil: in other words, try as you might -- >> they talk it but they don't do it, okay? neil: the trade thing is a manifestation of that? >> the trade thing is a terrible, terrible idea. i mean, trump has been a protectionist since 1979. you can find all kinds of crazy quotes. and it's just counterproductive. it is attacking american workers, consumers, importers. lot of businesses import semi-finished products and components and parts. all of this is raising their costs. we are really mucking up this economy because the government should stay out of trade. let businesses decide where to locate. neil: that is unless the government is rigging it. >> if the government is rigging it over there, then an american business goes to china and whines that the government in china is unfair, don't go to

china. go to australia. neil: by the way, they just lowered the rates in australia. first time in three years. >> the point is we shouldn't be taxing a worker in milwaukee so that some corporate ceo can go on, you know, bubble vision and whine about china not treating him well, but yet he's in a growth economy. neil: talking about going on cnbc. got you. david stockman, former reagan budget director, very very smart guy. you might agree or disagree but the fact of the matter is, we like to get all points of view here. fair and balanced. we will end there. republican, democrat, conservative. you know. after this. heading into retirement you want to follow your passions rather than worry about how to pay for long-term care. brighthouse smartcare℠ is a hybrid life insurance and long-term care product. it protects your family while providing long-term care coverage, should you need it. so you can explore all the amazing things ahead.

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as you all know, the starting wage at walmart now is $11 an hour. and people cannot make it on $11 an hour. you can't pay rent. you can't get health care. you can't feed your kids or put gas in the car on $11 an hour. neil: the starting wage, he's referring to at walmart. it's significantly higher than that for the entire population.

bernie sanders invite tod to sp at the walmart shareholders meeting going on in arkansas today. want to get the back and forth on this. patrice, if i can get your take on what is resonating there among supporters of bernie sanders, that companies aren't doing enough, that they're not paying enough. with the base that's very popular, right? >> it may sound good to the base but it's actually not factual. he's talked about minimum wage earners. when you look at those who are actually earning minimum wage, they are not raising their families on that. more than half of them are young people between the ages of 16 and 24. they are working part-time. so when you talk about raising the minimum wage which is wa bernie sanders is looking at and targeting walmart, he's -- he really wants to see fewer opportunities for young people, fewer smaller paychecks as workers -- as employers cut

hours and potentially the replacement of all of these low wage jobs with automation, with robots. neil: what do you think? >> well, i think it's much more than just the minimum wage. we have a double dipping major corporation here from the standpoint of over half the workers are part-time. that's $11 an hour part-time. so you don't get health insurance, you don't get other benefits. this is a company that makes billions of dollars selling goods to people on food stamps while because of their low pay and part-time hours, some of their employees, a lot of their employees, still have to get food stamps as well. this is a major issue and in addition, i would disagree with patrice by saying service sector jobs in a store like walmart, many of those will not be automated. those require human beings to interface with other human beings. it's not mcdonald's where you are just placing an order for a burger. humans are involved and walmart can do better. neil: what do you think, maddie? >> i'm not sure what ethan is getting at. couple statistics that are not mentioned about walmart, it's

the third largest employer in the world. on top of that, most of its managers make three times what the average u.s. worker makes. this is a company that takes care of its workers. i think when you have a part-time work force, that indicates that it's flexible as well for its workers to be able to choose the employment path that they want. i think it's very obvious what bernie sanders is trying to do here. he's trying to turn a shareholder event into a political event because he thinks it scores him cheap political points. at the end of the day, when you look at the fact there even is a shareholder event, that indicates the ability of walmart to democratize and allow people to participate in its equity. to me, having a shareholder event for a big company indicates how other people can get rich not just at the very top but at the very bottom, too. remember, more people in this country are exposed to the stock market than are paying federal income taxes because they have retired accounts, they have some kind of savings that is investd in the stock market. this is not just a get rich fat cat sitting around wall street sort of meet-up. these are average americans who have built equity because of the success in businesses like

walmart. that should be allowed to continue. the vision that bernie sanders is applauding is quite a bit different. neil: patrice, it is popular with many democrats now to say that corporate america is getting away with murder, that the tax cuts they enjoyed, they have not shared the bounty with their workers, et cetera. for the nomination, you are trying to get the democratic presidential nomination, is that a good tactic? >> for those who like what they are hearing from bernie sanders, maybe it is. it's also not -- it's disingenuous. when you look at walmart, because of the tax cuts that you identified, walmart expanded paid leave benefits to its workers and a lot of companies like chipotle, like cvs, suddenly women who are going to have babies or have babies could now take that time off and afford to have their job when they came back. i do think if he wants to earn the nomination, he's probably going to have to say, you know, to get involved in the rich

versus poor. at least be truthful about it. at least say you know what, these corporations, they actually are doing good things and hey, some of that is driven by good smart pro-growth policy like tax cuts. neil: ethan, if you are going to complain about walmart, why not say the same about amazon or federated stores where the minimum wage is actually lower and the available benefits are actually fewer, or is it just that walmart is an easy big name, worldwide recognized target? >> neil, bernie has gone after amazon and a number of these other large employers and actually to the other two panelists' point, where i think they are totally wrong, this type of public pressure works. we have seen it time and time again. getting their name in the news, bernie sanders has been focused on this for decades. neil: why doesn't he say that walmart is helping for college for their associates, they are doing a lot of things that supposedly he wanted in the first place, why can't he say or

acknowledge some of the things i have advocated, they're doing. whether he's the reason for that or not, it's all they are pathetic and evil. >> i would be willing to bet bernie will acknowledge some of the gains that have been made. neil: he didn't today. >> i don't think he will. >> because we need to focus especially during a political campaign, we will focus on what we want to change, not acknowledge hey, we made this progress, let's stop there. no. we have a lot more work to do. we have a heavily part-time -- neil: that's not fair and balanced, my friend. right? >> here's the thing. you see ethan and patrice seeing two different causalities for the same phenomenon, that workers are benefiting from companies giving them more. i would argue it's because public policy has created more capital and businesses are -- neil: okay. all right. we will watch it. i'm sorry, i'm interrupting all of you. i apologize for that. more after this. carvana is six years old this year

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neil: all right, hour away from the big powwow with the mexican foreign secretary meeting at the white house, vice president pence, secretary of state pompeo to try to ward off what could be soon pretty steep tariffs could be steeper still if this keeps dragging out. we go to charles payne. charles: thank you, neil, very much. good afternoon. i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now the dow jones industrial average is deep in triple digits as we await clarity from the federal reserve on the state of the economy.

how much further has the manufacturing slump gone? how does regional employment look and what are the impacts of tariffs? of course signs of inflation. we have jennifer schoenberger at fed with all those answers. jennifer. >> charles the economy improved slightly in late april through early may with the outlook remaining, quote, solidly positive for the coming months. anecdotal evidence across the federal reserves 12 bank districts this was solidly upbeat report surprising in the face of president trump's tariffs. it come as bit early, it is too early to gauge impact of 25% tariffs on $200 billion imports from china. manufacturers posted positive results with only a couple with a decline. tariffs remain a key concern for manufacturers though they are not pulling back on investment plans at least not yet. anecdotally in philadelphia, s