you can get coverage at 7:30 p.m. eastern time. with a pregame show. so, i'm going to head out and then i will see you back here. >> get a hot dog for me. all right, we love it. thank you so much. >> trade talks relaunch, white house official tally fox this u.s. and chinese officials have spoken over the phone today in an effort to relaunch talks and resolve outstanding trade disputes. chief white house economic adviser, larry cut lows here on what came out of that phone call today. welcome everybody, this is bulls and bears. thank you for joining us. joining me on the panel today carol ross, jonathan and john lico. first let's go one-on-one with white house counsel director. the president treated this out earlier today, very good numbers

on the economy. much potential for growth, trade deals be negotiated or set up for negotiation, we have been treated very unfairly to put it mildly via other countries for many years but that is changing. we heard that they are speaking this afternoon so where do you treat talk stan this afternoon? >> let's say the new round of trade talks that were agreed upon in osaka, japan, these are preliminary discussions. staffs will be meeting, details will be poured over, probably visitations will be arraigned. i am not here to talk about any specifics, i am just saying this is the restarting of the process that was going pretty well with a lot of headway as you know. and then kind of stomped out in may when we believe china and their team reneged on an agreement.

so they are restarting. that's a good thing, kudlow said it's better to talk that not to talk. >> i was getting the sense that may be as new news that goes against that idea that the chinese were waiting as long as they could to see how the political race was working out may be thinking they would deal with somebody other than donald trump if he loses the election. was there any of that politicking going on from that perspective? >> certainly not in these talks. look, i can't confirm any of this chinese thinking, if they think they can wait until 2020, november, i think that would be a very big mistake on their part and i think that kind of thinking would probably do great damage to these trade talks, okay. we expect some progress on this. look, president trump agreed with president xi jinping that it's time to continue the talks that were temporarily suspended

in early more. furthermore, president trump agreed not to raise additional tariffs and on top of that, president trump agreed to allow certain american products, techie products to be sold to the phone company as long as there is no national security complications. we have a very strong of very strong expectation that china will release shortly, may be immediately begin to purchase agricultural products. that's a strong expectation that the president and his team holds. so far we have not seen it, but we are waiting to see it. let me just say, if the chinese side believes it can wait till november 2020, they would be making a big mistake and would do damage. >> particularly when they look at the economy in hong kong, there are a lot of reasons why they need a deal.

i'm just wondering about specifics on the agricultural part of the deal. did you focus on soybeans? the soybean farmers are really hurting. >> david, i love it when you ask specifics. you're such a great reporter. you understand that as director of the nec i cannot talk about specifics. but it's great fun to go back and forth like this. i have been in your shoes and you have been in my shoes so we all live and learn and gain green greater wisdom with age. david: but it does sound like we are closer, much closer to regaining our momentum in the talks, and if that is so, i think we would have a deal before the election, no? >> i would not want to make any such forecast. as the president has said and he said this back in osaka, we are interested in a quality deal which is great for america as he often says, covering lots of ground, both structural ground, tariff ground and so forth. we can do those talks again if you wish, but speed is not an

issue. quality is the issue. so, i make no forecast on that. we reiterate this view. there is no timetable, none of that stuff, they are moving along piece-by-piece and they will wind up going line by line as they did last winter and spring. david: they are into those details. let me bring you to another trade deal which is u.s. mca. nafta 2.0, the congressional ratification of the u.s. mca's forefront in the minds of many you kind of surprise folks by talking up nancy pelosi and your dealmaking with her or negotiations with her. do you think there will be possible for all of the problems we are having, republicans and democrats in congress that we can get a ratification before the election? >> this is some of my favorite topics. i'm glad you asked. let me say at the outset, speaker pelosi on this subject has been very accommodative.

she's working well with ambassador light heiser on a bill which is absolutely a bipartisan deal and was designed as such. the template is the best trade deal this country has ever generated. she has allowed him to speak at the democratic conference, they have broken it up now into individual groups with democratic leaders discussing matters with ambassador light heiser and his team, so she has been very helpful. now, as to when, where, how, and why, i think light has or has said he will wait for her to signal for a vote. we truly hope there will be a vote. and if i may david, very quickly, economic growth impact is enormous priced out by the international trade commissioner. we could be talking mid range, i have gdp

per year. a half a point. the difference for example between two and a half and three or three and three and a half or three and half and four is enormous. along with that, the potential for 180, 200,000 new jobs per year. $100 billion for a direct investment, not just portfolio investment in our factories, and our technologies and elsewhere. this is a deal that has very strong domestic content rules, helps manufacturing, helps farming open markets and in the new economy it has the best and intellectual property patent laws ever put down agreed to by both sides. >> but the bottom line, could we get the deal before the election? >> of course we can. it is our great hope. look, it's our hope that we will get something this year. i think it's not a stretch to say it's our great hope we'll get something this summer, but

we await speaker pelosi is leadership on this. as i said, she has been very helpful. david: larry, want to talk a little bit about the great economy even without those deals because the numbers were extraordinary on friday. we talked about it, strong economy, strong as the economy is as roaring as it is going, core inflation is coming down compared to where it was in december so you have this roaring economy with the inflation coming down. so if inflation is coming down, why aren't interest rates coming down? >> look, market rates have come down tremendously. right across -- david: de expect the fake to cut rates in july? >> the market is signaling the fed to lower rates. historically, frequently, most of the time they do follow big market rate moves. the curve is inverted as you know that is to say the ten year and the five-year well below the fed funds rates for the three

month rate. as you probably also know, the signals in the market, things like the so-called tips breakeven, the market rate less the real rate shows an inflation on the cpi of only 1.5%. that would be close to one, 1.25. look, you have strong growth but the price signals are showing that we should take back the rate hike of last year, maybe take back several of the rate hikes last year. the goal here is domestic price ability. we need to watch out about access inflation or even deflation or commodity indexes. the phillips curve is broken once again. that is the fourth time in the last four decades. david: larry, since you have been in my position you know this well. i just have to ask you one final question it has to be quick. >> i'm just saying the market is predicting a fed rate cut. david: absolutely it is but the

great -- we talked about, he questions whether the fed should be independent at all. do you share or his questioning of whether the fed needs to be a little more responsive to what elected officials think? >> look, that's tricky. i have not talked to arts. i meant to talk to them earlier today but i got caught up in meetings. i'm not sure precisely what he meant. now that he has. david: clearly he said i don't understand why the fed is independent to be honest. that's pretty clear. >> now that he is got the presidential medal of freedom he doesn't call me as much as he used to. that's okay. i'm a humble guy and i will be happy to call him. constitutionally the fed reports to congress. the value of money there of article one. i'm not sure where he was going with respect to the president. at the risk of misinterpreting art and we see this, i believe that long custom of the federal

reserve to be an independent agency should remain intact. i believe that. that doesn't mean the fed lives on another planet, but it also means, i think their operations, dated today, they are an independent agency, that is a tradition. history shows that independent central banks tend to do better than those that are ruled perhaps for example with what is happened in turkey. david: that's a very clear answer. >> i can't, i've been interpreting maybe we could come back with more and have this discussion. but the fed is independent by tradition. but, does report to congress and let's not forget, the president appoints the governors of the federal reserve board. so, in that sense, there are linkages to the executive branch and the legislative branch. david: my time reprieve had just been retracted. i can go longer. that means you have to come back and see us again.

>> any time. >> larry kudlow, it's great to see. good to see you. thank you very much. so, panel, limit go to carol first. what he think about what larry said? >> first welcome i'd love larry. he's the biggest offender free markets for all time. i think he is right on some of the things he says in fact the part of it be an independent, he was trying to hint there that he believes the veg not be politicized. in terms of the fed needing to cut rates, i do not agree with that. we do not have five or 6% interest rates. we have historically low interest rates and if the economy is moving along well i don't see that need. i understand inflation is low. >> we are not charging it anymore for inflation. it's a whole separate discussion. i say let the fed say that see what's ahead and hold tight for now. >> i completely agree.

i think any president wants lower interest rates because it's easier to get free money out there. people are able to use their free money. it creates some bubbles as we have seen in the past. that doesn't matter for the president himself. they policy but then they want a weaker dollar. i think larry is right about the strength of the economy. i'm not sure why you need rate cuts of the economy is that strong. that's a bit of a conundrum. i think he is smoke and mirrors about the trade war. we started march 22, 16 months ago and the trade war and every month we talk about -- david: we have to go. i am getting absolute have to go for my producers. meanwhile, bernie sanders and aoc together. this time they're trying to re- boost the new green new deal. will congress use your taxpayer dollars to from their latest plan? we will debate that, next what's going on up here?

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>> we are going to have to takel industry and the ignorance of donald trump and transform our energy system in a very bold way. >> a moral imperative. are you ready for the new green new deal? senator bernie sanders and alexandria ocasio-cortez introducing another resolution, this one declaring a climate change emergency this come after the green new deal did not win a single vote in congress earlier this year. the new proposal calling for quotes, and economic mobilization at a massive scale. so, is this resolution any different than the green new deal and will the house of representatives authorize taxpayer dollars for all of this. >> let's hope not. this is all about making people

frightened. be afraid. aoc is telling you that the world is going to end in 12 years, it's getting too hot, is getting too cold, were losing the spotted owl or whatever it is. the only answer is to destroy the fossil fuel economy that powers our modern civilization. this is their answer, government control. for those that say that climate change is hurting mankind, look at the fact, climate -related deaths are down 95% in the last 100 years and that's over a period that fossil fuel use has expanded. >> i had an imaginary red buzzer on the table that a hit because i knew exactly where you're going to go with that fossil fuel points. no matter what just like we spoken many weeks at a time, you can find studies that your narrative my narrative, what we do know is climate change. >> let's talk about that. let's talk about greenhouse gases and the situation that we are seeing in california. i'm not going to go in details.

let's look at what politicians are doing. we had the president speak and 45 minutes on the environment. no mention on climate change. two were former lobbyists for coal and oil. what we are seeing from the left side of the democratic party is they're talking climate change because it is very topical and relevant. you bring up the whole fear mongering, the fear factor, didn't he do that with the wall, don't we do that with a lot of things with the migrant caravan? it's how politicians work in the more we realize that to decipher through that nonsense. >> here's the thing, so, it doesn't matter which one of the two of you are correct, because, there are private endeavors that are addressing this. if you look at someone like bill gates, he is recently pap partnered with chevron and some of the other companies, they are doing direct air capture to actually reclaim the co2 out of the atmosphere. it's not new technology but it is cost-effective. so you can either belt on bill

gates and chevron or you can bet on bernie and aoc who can play their plan their way of a paper bag. you better be betting with bill gates on that. >> one thing the government has a role here, when you talk about building a grid across america, three separate electric grids right now. the problem with al gore is he was -- with human repellent. people hate it because of the messenger. same thing with aoc. i know it's red meat but there are some things that are in like what whether rising buildings. >> the environmental stuff does make some sense but they go so far beyond that to include social economic engineering. global demands social,

industrial and economic mobilization of resources. for jonathan's point, creating emergencies with world war ii, americans lost a lot of freedom in world war ii as a result of that real emergency and that's what these people like in order to get their economic policy. >> david, don't be misled to believe that the environmentalists want to help mankind. yesterday we did a story, they want to take your plastic toys at a kids happy meals. >> because is not being recycled. >> were not going to re- argued segment. that was -- thank you. while the iran blame game continue. tensions rise as iran reaches the nuclear new deal. as we get closer to showdown, who is really at fault? will the bait that. plus harry joins us to way on this and much more coming up.

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>> iran is threatening to take further steps to reach the 2015 nuclear agreement, unless we stop economic sanctions by september. what critics of the president as usual or blaming him for the conflict, harry says it is not his fault and harry joins us now to explain. so, who's fault is it? >> it is iran's fault. look at it this way, the question is this, why does iran need to have a nuclear program in the first place? they are blessed with trillions of dollars in oil, natural gas. they don't need a nuclear program for civilian purposes for any reason. the only reason they want to retain industry eventually have a nuclear weapon or the

capability someday to build a nuclear weapon. to me this doesn't make any sense whatsoever and if iran wants the sanctions lifted it simple, and the nuclear program. >> it's a pleasure having you on the show. sanctions have really worked in this world, look at north korea, iraq, cuba, most of the time sanctions especially with autocratic regimes are willing to give up their entire country but they're not going to give up power, they tend to do something irrational. they have attacked six tankers, and oil line and now they claim it was in their airspace but most people don't believe that. how does this not escalate? those are all acts of war. i don't think were going to war but how does this not escalate at this point? >> the thing that i have been proud of is the president has been very clear, he doesn't want to war. i was impressed that he took the political heat and actually pulled back a military strike when he came to the realization that the strike he ordered was not going to be proportional.

so i give him credit for that. to your point on sanctions, i agree, sanctions are probably not going to take down the regime. i'm against regime change in iran. but it continues to put pressure on tehran to think about if they should have a nuclear program in the first place. the guy said, there's no rational reason why they have to have a nuclear program. i think it makes them understand there's no point. i would also add the damage done to iran's economy is severe and about ten or 15 years of economic sanctions will cost them about $120 billion in direct investment. they have choices to make. >> harry, it's carol. i think it's fine that we talk about the rational approach when it comes to iran because there's nothing rational about them. if they do end up escalating the situation, what about other allies of ours are other people in the region stepping up. i think that we really certainly don't want to go to war and it's about time that we stop being

the worlds police. is there somebody else who should be stepping up in your opinion? >> i think the whole middle east should be stepping up. it's obvious israel has her back but i think the whole region needs to look at iran and understand iran's goal wasn't just nuclear white bins or more advanced missiles, but regional dominance. >> i think everybody needs to get involved and i think the president has made this very clear in terms of making sure the burden is shared throughout the region. i think he's been a vocal voice to make sure that everybody has a stake in this. if iran does break out of the nuclear box, that is a situation that could break into a war. i think everybody understands that. >> to your other point, should they even have a nuclear program to begin with, wouldn't the country like iran use that as negotiations going forward especially when you have other countries who have nuclear capabilities. if i was running iran i wouldn't

just throw that away. >> absolutely. i think there is a negotiation that can be had here. i do think iran should be getting some benefits for fully scrapping its nuclear program. i think we have to be clear what were asking for. that's a complete ending of the program in its entirety. all reactors. everything. if iran is willing to do that and take big steps to do that, i think you could end it bakes chunk of the sanctions but there's one other point i want to make. iran also needs to limit its ability to create ballistic and cruise missiles. my fear some days if they back out of another deal and they have those missiles they could make them into a nuclear warhead and we have another crisis. >> harry, we have to leave it at that. thank you. we have breaking news, bloomberg is reporting a u.s. judge is denying the trump administration request to swap out lawyers in the census case. we will bring you more headlines on this developing story as we get them right here.

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>> could we be nearing the beginning of the end of obama care? a federal appeals court is hearing a case that could end up before the supreme court. the trump administration and 18 states back in a lawsuit claiming president obama was

signature laws unconstitutional and should be struck down. let's bring in misty, could the court do what congress didn't do, label the acas unconstitutional? yes, they certainly could. that some of the arguments we heard today. the fact that congress eliminated the penalty for the individual mandate renders that section of the law unconstitutional because it falls under congresses power to levy taxes. without a penalty how does it fall under that? so, the argument takes it to the next level which is that part of the law is not severable from the rest of the law. without that, the law doesn't stand. today in court the two conservative judges were asking questions that would lead you to believe they are seriously considering upholding the lower courts decision in scrapping obama care altogether. >> back in 2008 republicans were

arguing that they should stay out of healthcare, the democrats actually put that and now it seems like a lot of republicans among them say the maybe government should be involved in providing healthcare. so, what is the alternative, if obama care struck down we know they want single-payer, do republicans want no government healthcare? what is their plan? >> i think there needs to be a plan in effect today what we heard in court was again one of the justices said, you might be asking the courts to do something that falls outside of the courts purview. it's a political issue and should be left to congress. so, we could see something like that in a decision and now look, whatever happens, there's going to have to be a hard look at healthcare and what are we going to do. >> but we haven't really come up with a plan and republicans have had time to do so. that's concerning. i want to go back to a point where you have the individual mandate if that's unconstitutional, isn't it so

intertwined with everything else that you just can't scrap it. correct me if i'm wrong, i'm looking at it from two parts mixed together. >> that's a legal argument. if one part of the law doesn't stand, the individual mandate doesn't stand and that's unconstitutional in the whole laws unconstitutional. that's based on a prior supreme court which shows -- to levy taxes. without a tax penalty it's an unconstitutional law. >> go ahead john. >> what happens though to the health exchanges? what happens to the millions who have health insurance because of obama care is their provision here or just that it will be ruled unconstitutional so the entire thing is scrapped and then all of a sudden these healthcare exchanges are obsolete in those insured no

longer have insurance. >> you make a great point and that's the problem, there really isn't an alternative plan at that moment. that's why the lower court decision, the implementation would stay pending the appellate court ruling. we will likely see this go up to the supreme court. so, they will have the final word on the constitutionality of this law. >> thank you. thank you so much. coming up next we remember the remarkable life of the self-made billionaire businessman and former presidential candidate, ross perot who has died at the age of 89. dto experiencer gthrilling performance. now, at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. get 0.9% apr for 60 months on all 2019 models. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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because george h bush's reelection. at the second presidential debate in 1992, esther pro sounded a theme about nafta that president trump space would have appreciated today. listen. >> if you're playing $13 or $14 to factory workers and you can move your factory south of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor, as if you been in business a long time. pay a dollar an hour for your labor, have no healthcare, have no environmental controls and no retirement and you don't care about anything but making money, there will be a sucking sound going south. if the people send me a wash the first thing i will do is study that agreement and make sure it's a two way street. >> it sounds familiar, doesn't it. >> it does sound familiar. >> what i love about it is he's from a time when we used to look

up to people who were successful. he is the embodiment of the american dreams. somebody who went from depression level poverty to being one of the most successful people in america. this is what people should be aspiring to. truly someone who had a life that was well lived and left it a better place. >> pgh so, from taxes ross perrault is a legend. i've met him but here he has a place and he's famous for writing his ski due around the entire island, he would do that every single year. he was full of life. and he really set the tone for a business man getting into politics and having this message of america for. >> i'm glad. i appreciate you talk about the fact that he was a politician but he was a businessman. he started and created a very successful large companies and made a fortune. he may -- a big issue.

in 1992 up it was $4 trillion it's $22 trillion today. so, we could use a few more independents like him today, independent-minded figures. people who are committed to ideas and principles much more than individual political party. >> i think we saw on that clip he's a great speaker. there's a lot of good quotes out there and what i have written here is, failures or light skinned knees, painful but superficial. or if you see a snake it just kill it don't appoint a committee on snakes. >> john's you have your texas way of speaking. he came very close. people forget that in june of 92 he was pulling at 39% of the vote. that was more than clinton or bush but then he dropped out and did not rejoin until october. if he stayed in he may have one. he could have been the first billionaire president spin the

dropping out is what really hurt them. he had something with his daughter's wedding and he had security tips on him that was the last chance we had for a third party in the united states. we are nowhere close. nobody can draw the kind of support for the independent site. i wish we did have a third party. we had a good economy during that run. although he did not win he said the stage and made cutting the data major conservative theme for a decade or more. >> and by the way, at the end of the clinton term he did have a balanced budget. that was last time we had a balanced budget but as you pointed out he played a role in that and focusing both parties because they did work together to get the balanced-budget.

>> we have to leave it. >> the good old days. >> we could use a little of that right now. david: thanks to everyone tonight, we remember the honorable and long life of ross perot, a life well lived, passed away at the age of 89. i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪ play it cool and escape heartburn fast with new tums chewy bites cooling sensation.

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>> like many of myself myrecomms you should figure out a way to get off facebook. it can measure your heartbeat,

they can listen to you, a lot of devices. who knows of my cell phone is listening. a lot of people think they have privacy, they don't. me a choic? let me pay a certain amount and keep my data more everybody els. >> is he right? >> i think he is right in a sense that we have no expectation when it comes to privacy. facebook can literally measure the distance between my nose and might year based off of tagged photos. obviously there is a lot of information out there. i think despite the scandals nobody has deleted their accounts really. you're still seeing 1 billion users on facebook type platform. in general we prefer convenience. when you look at the privacy policy in general on average 2500 words, who's going to go through that, read it and make sure is protecting our privacy? >> that's the beauty, they can measure the distance between

your nose in your ear so when you're ready to get that piercing, facebook will have just the chain. that's the whole point. they know a lot about you. they share everything. but exactly, all they can do is market to you. all they can do is advertising. >> we don't know that. what happens if i have a heart pacer and facebook noesen hackers get into it. there's a lot that can happen in the future. >> as yields saying goes, if the it's and butts were candy and nuts we would all be marian christmas. >> but they are using that to make their lives better. >> here's the thing, i think there's a business case and a consumer case. i happen to own facebook stock because i think it's a great business. from a consumer standpoint i think it's a pile of trash. that being said, anything you are using online has the same issues. you should not be expecting privacy unless you plan to go

off the grid entirely, your privacy is going to be violated and it's only going to get worse. we have an entire generation and gen z that has no privacy expectations. so listen, the luxury of the future will be privacy and by the way, alexa told me to say that. >> privacy doesn't even have to be violated. you have people who put pictures of themselves, the stupid culture that we have every single day unlike christina says 2.1 billion people who use facebook or its products every month and you think there is some type of privacy there, when you are the one posting your own pictures, this is idiotic to me. i understand it's a free process here and you have the user data, absolutely. can they break into your house? were starting to see black helicopters here. >> maybe so but i still think there some way between getting off the grid and being more careful to tread. there is the path there, is

there not by which you can be careful about what you put on? maybe don't have two or three accounts on facebook. >> here's the thing, david, yes you should be careful and smart if you don't wanted to be broadcast on our program you shouldn't be put in net over e-mail or telling people you're going on vacation. the reality is, every device you have can be turned into a listening device. if you're having a conversation by e-mail, by text, over direct messages, those can be captured. whatever it is you are doing there's a potential for a violation. >> the marketplace is adapting to it. apple has made privacy among their number one priorities. myspace was on top ten or 12 years ago. >> even though apple, they are focused on privacy, if you put pictures up into the cloud, they can still be hacked come is what happened to all the celebrities.

that's the issue. >> i have a question for all of you, do you think privacy will be something only the wealthy can afford in the future as we become more open on the wealthy realize i want to protect it so i will am going to pay for this cheer like system may be on facebook or instagram? >> that's a good question. privacy is going to be available to those for tech savvy are those that can by tech savvy people to provide that to you. 100%. that will be available to only a small portion of the population. although zuckerberg says he is going to try to create something like that for the common folks out there. i think you're right, think it's going to be a privilege. bernie sanders says he's not a fan of liberal california billionaire joining the 2020 race. but sanders reason might have you scratching your heads. details, next ♪ ♪

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david: billionaire activist tom steyer jumping into the race. >> i have known tom for a number of years and i like tom personally. but i have to say, somebody who in this campaign has he received 2 million campaign contributions averaging i believe $19 a person, i am a bit tired of seeing billionaires trying to buy political power. i like tom, he's a good guy, and a french mine, but i'm not a big fan of the billionaires getting involved in the political process. david: are millionaires okay? >> do you want a person who says

my qualification is i have never been successful and never made much money? and the fact that bernie sanders is part of the 1% that he rails against. this is nuts to me. >> the exact amount of wealth bernie find offensive is one dollar more than whatever he has at that point in time. it's absolutely such a joke. there are lots of reasons not to like tom steyer. but the fact that he's successful is a good thing. railing against people who are successful to make your own power grab. >> of course they are hypocrites. bernie rails against rail travel, he flies first class himself. he rails against success.

he rails against success. even tom steyer rails begins fossil fuels but he has become wealthy in the coal industry. >> if these guys are friends, i would never want my friends to diss me on national television. you have got elizabeth warren who has grassroots support or if you are going for the environment or extremely left. >> the socialist hypocrisy. i think jonathon, you have got it right, the extra dollar they have that they don't want anybody else to get. danny ortega in nicaragua. it's only the folks at the top that kept the fancy cars.

>> i hate journalism. that does it for "bulls and bears." we'll see you next time. liz: the probe into the russia probe. justice department officials grilling christopher steele about the trump dossier. the house is trying to subpoena witnesses already interviewed by the mueller team. what's the democrat strategy here. to the showdown with iran. the trump administration dropping even more sanctions targeting iranian-backed hezbollah. 2020 democrats