meetings. stuart: big tech is not necessarily in the news. apple is up again reaching 229. amazon up a little bit. facebook, despite more bad publicity $180 a share and the dow turned around, up 23. neil, it is yours. neil: there was a time when the markets pounced on it, it would represent an about-face of the administration, indicating represents a partial deal. you don't get everything done in one agreement. we're only going on larry kudlow's remark as few minutes ago, but when he first said them 10:49:00 eastern time, the marked rebounded a little on that. wall street's view on this, partial deal beats no dial. president's view, full

comprehensive deal beats a partial deal is where the president was going. down necessarily mean a partial deal is in the offing but at corner of wall and broad they think one is. as i told you many, many times, trade talks, whether they look promising or not indicate the direction of stocks. better for trade, better for stocks. worst for trade, worst for stocks. the ministers gather in washington this week to hammer out some sort of an accord or at least a preview of one. let's not get ahead of our proverbial skis. there are issues weighing on the markets, sped up impeachment battle. the president is handing over his tax returns. there is a appeal in place to prevent that from happening by the one p.m. deadline. blake burman from the white house following all of this. on the trade front, if this is true it, would represent a big change in administration policy, right? reporter: as you said, let's not

get ahead of our skis here. that is a good way to put it because remember when all of this started, neil, the white house was waving off this idea of a month or two ago there could be a short of had term interim deal. the president came out on the south lawn, went back and forth. next day he said he want as long-term, definitive solid deal. we heard from peter navarro. he gave an interview with npr, the need to have a bigger deal but out here on the north lawn larry kudlow was talking up this possibility of a short-term deal. he said let's see what they bring, speaking of the chinese. i would add to this, we're open to a number of ideas. some may be short term, some may be long term. it is essential that the structural issues we talked about are there. of course that is a big component to this, the structural items. so you know where are we all of this, neil? well, we know that the deputy level meetings are going on right now and the senior level

meetings will take place at the end of the week. it is also important to note that sources from the chinese ministry of commerce are telling fox business, or at least are talking up this idea of an interim deal but again, as i have always reminded you, neil, at the end of the day any sort of deal would have to go through president trump and president xi. we heard the president talk up a need for a long-term deal. that is sort of the lay of the land as the talks begin. i also asked kudlow, neil, by the way about another story we've been following over the last 10 days or so, this idea of the administration looking into cushing investment flows into china, and potentially delisting chinese stocks here in the u.s.? kudlow seemed to push away the idea of delisting stocks. instead talked about the need for transparency. here was his response when i asked him about all of that this morning. watch. >> the delisting is not on the table. i don't know where that came

problem. what we're looking is for investor protections, u.s. investor protections. you're quite right, transparency and compliance with a number of laws. there have been complaint by the stock exchanges about this, the sec has heard complaints. so we've opened up a study group to take a look at it. but we're very early in our deliberations. reporter: we are very early in deliberations. so kudlow confirming there publicly that these discussions as we've been reporting neil for the last week or two are very much alive and on going at least internally. by the way the backdrop to everything right now at the white house, talks of potential impeachment inquiry and whether or not democrats will go forward with that vote. there was also the news of this second whistleblower with the attorney for the first whistleblower saying the second whistleblower has first-hand knowledge. the white house responding to that over the weekend, kind of shrugging all of it off, with

the press secretary stephanie grisham saying the following. doesn't matter how many people call themselves whistleblowers, the president made it public. it doesn't change the fact that nothing is wrong. that is the read from the white house. impeachment in china as we begin this week here at 1600 penn. neil: man, oh, man, i wanted an update on but the administration appealed the judge's ruling. the administration wanted to block eight years of tax returns the state of new york was looking at but they have precious little time to do it. they need a ruling by 1:00 p.m. or those could be handed over, right? reporter: president's attorneys asked for an appeal here but this is a loss at least in the first round of court deliberations for the president. if they are, handed over, the folks in new york, prosecutors there say this would remain secret but of course this is something democrats have been looking for, for three years now

probably. held up in the courts and it is an initial loss, no doubt about it, for the president in new york. neil: there are hopes that would be kept secret. if someone has it those bets are off. reporter: if it were to get turned over. neil: if it gets to that point. we are following these developments. the dow up about 14 points. the president has been arguing in sort of the macro picture you keep pursuing him, you know drum up all of these whistleblowers you are risking a lot more than a constitutional crisis. you're risking a market crisis. the president made it clear in a lot of his supporters and surrogates over the weekend including with me on saturday, if you want to go ahead throw that away, continue impeachment process, market gains go, economic gains go, is that really so we have charlie gasparino, list -- liz peak and mike murphy. on the general thrust of the

president says i've been good for the markets, good for the economy, all that goes, if this goes too far. >> i agree. if you look at the democratic party is out to take down the president. they are going to find something to take the president down. if it happens it is not good for the entire country from an economic standpoint from my opinion. the left tells you he has to be taken down for things like this ukraine phone call. i think it's a push to take down the president. we should focus on what is in front of us, that is an economy that has been good over the last few years and continue to be good if we have the right policies in place. neil: what if the irony, charlie, regardless views on impeachment maybe it is sputtering out? markets can only go up so long and concern about earnings this quarter that we'll get to the third quarter release that could contract, be down anywhere three to 5%. >> for our viewers we should break this down rearly clearly. how do stocks trade? they trade off corporate

earnings. what policies would be negative for corporate earnings? a policy by a mike pence presidency would not be negative for corporate earnings, okay. if donald trump was impeached tomorrow and replaced by mike pence that would not be good for corporate earnings. you can make a great place mike pence is trade warrior. stocks might rebound. you have to ask yourself how stocks were to respond if it were a elizabeth warren presidency. that is where you have existential problems with the stocks. if donald trump says i'm impeached and it would go to hell in hand basket, he is wrong. mike pence -- neil: that is long way off. we're already seeing a sputtering of corporate earnings, not severely so, but if it is slowing down. the thing the president hung re-election hopes on strong economy,, which he has had,

strong market, volatile as it has been, do you think the backdrop will change on him? >> i don't think the backdrop is in danger of changing dramatically, neil. what is driving the economy is the consumer. the consumer not only looking at higher wages, incredibly strong jobs market, 50 year unemployment across all sectors of populace. this is not just or two groups doing well, everybody is doing well with the job market. at the end of the day charlie is way underplaying sentiment, optimism, confidence. consumer confidence according to bloomberg last week -- >> you're -- wage rate. this is where -- >> consumer spending is quite -- >> i'm not saying they're not borrowing. neil: surveys do confirm what she is saying. they're upbeat. >> spending money, putting on their credit card. neil: not everyone is cheap like you. >> this comes down to wages? are they rising that fast. neil: real terms they are rising than they were. >> but from a low, low level.

neil: you asked a question whether that will turn on the dime, right? >> listen, i don't we're in a bad economy. there are underpinnings that could help a populist become president and -- neil: not trying to judge how far the impeachment thing goes. might go far, might not go at all but, the backdrop is being tested with the contraction in manufacturing, slowdown in services. whether the one thing the president was counting on might not be as robust come election time? >> i think you have to differentiate, referring to the economy as a whole, like the manufacturing side of the economy, where as if you look at consumer as liz is pointing out there are two different things. there are a lot of jobs with record low unemployment. neil: layoffs in the retail sector. >> there have been layoffs in the retail sector because technology is changing the way you actually go out and buy products. so you see pickups in other sectors. neil: you're not worried bottom line? >> bottom line i'm not worried.

i think what could, look at the bull case on this, if we get a china trade deal, all bets off to the upside. neil: what if a deal, if it's a deal that isn't what the president originally telegraphed. >> two things. one. just in terms of the bull case for the economy, one sector has not participated at all is housing. i think housing is just beginning to accelerate. that could be a big plus for next year. also on third quarter earnings, yes, right now, it is sort of uncertain but don't forget the second quarter was supposed to be down in terms of earnings too. neil: i have no doubt that these guys ratcheted their expectations down a slight uptick they will look like geniuses are you worried there is momentum -- >> i think there is cooling in the market, no question. any kind of trade deal would help or reboot the economy and growth? i do. neil: how would you guys live with that? if it's a deal that is fairly tepid -- >> first of all, housing is

mixed bag, northeast, california, lots of slowdown for reasons like getting rid of salt which you're really annoyed about, so am i. the salt deduction. trump should take a page out of sun tzu. go to china, retreat, take a victory. he will not get them to just give him everything. neil: how does he explain that then? >> get some of it. markets go up. take your victory lap. go home. >> i think certainty is what people want. if he can do and say it's a multistep, why does everything have to be done at once? neil: agree with that. you set it up, gone on this long, year-and-a-half on this, did something you probably could do at the beginning will guys like you and wall street be upset. >> i don't think we'll be upset. we want to take uncertainty off the table table and talk of a trade war off the table. we hear about recession, even though the economy is not

growing as quickly as it was i don't see a recession. neil: i don't say that but if you're used to one way of saying do people get jarred all of sudden if it isn't what it was? >> economy you mean? neil: yes. >> i think people will adapt to it. everybody out there who is investing has china trade war somewhere on the horizon. if you take that off there, it's a clearer picture. >> why can't he sell it? blows smoke about everything else. he is greatest president in the world, greatest economy. why can't you sell the deal as a great deal? neil: might be sold that way. >> can eliminate tariffs on most goods. if you see agricultural purchases in china ramp up again. if we get the usmca -- neil: you're not worried about impeachment? you don't think it is going anywhere? >> until there is a change in the polling frankly. first of all the democrats haven't upon there yet. they haven't -- >> isn't polling positive for impeachment?

it is split. kind of split. we're, pursuing that. also pursuing this latest backlash against just a basketball team manager, saying obvious, he likes protesters and what they stand for. all hell to pay and a remind they're china can still be very intimidating after this.

neil: honk con protests are back and houston rockets are facing backlash. prompted a series of apologies, that my next guest says is way overdone. independent women's for ren policy fellow, claudia rosette joins us. she is in hong kong. you think this is overkill and the apology looks smarmy? >> it is not only overkill this apology, it is disgusting. it is wrong. he shouldn't have done it. he is right. neil: so he speaks out in support of the protesters. many have in the past. and continue to now but obviously there was enough

concern that this could boomerang on business that some things have not changed since all of these companies and their exposure to get some sort of business going in china, they surrendered their souls along with their spreadsheets, didn't they? >> yeah. that's the problem. look when china says 1.4 billion people are affect the by something that is affected the dictators of china, ruling cop cop -- communist party, the answer should be what is really affecting 1.4 billion people in china their own government does not trust them to elect their own leaders or access the internet as they like or speak freely, assemble freely or do anything free people do. [inaudible] so this is nothing to do with offended feelings against china. this has to do with the

communist party has monopoly on power. to apologize to them, apologizing to tyrants is just a bad idea. and hong kong is merely fighting for freedom. that is the american way. and we better band together in supporting freedom or china will pick us off one by one -- [inaudible] neil: this is interesting you say that claudia. i had on with me over the weekend, she has been on this show as well, a leading figure of the protest movement back in tianamen square 30 years ago. she is telling me it will happen again, china when push comes to shove is happy to push people off the face of the map. i want you to respond to this. this is from rose tang. >> america is the beacon of freedom and democracy. america should show china what democracy should be like. china or hong kong government should not use brutality or

violence to discuss people's basic desire for human rights but they will. if this keeps going, they will? >> they will. it is in their nature to kill people. neil: it is in their nature to kill people, claudia is how she ended that. what do you think about that. >> unfortunately that is true, the nature being the ruling communist party of china rule with tyranny and they do what it takes to keep power that is the lesson of tianamen. that unfortunately is the trajectory we're seeing in hong kong. the government has given them nothing. what began as protests against the idea of extradition being allowed into china is now turning into something where china is importing its rules into hong kong and their freedoms, what was left of their freedoms are just being stripped away with speed right now. [inaudible] neil, nobody really knows what

the rules are except the freedom that they were supposed to be guaranteed are really gone and there is they are now marching in defiance of that, but at great danger to -- [inaudible]. yes [inaudible] neil: all right, claudia. we're having some problems with your audio, claudia. i apologize for that. thank you very much. weighing in on this, the fact this could go from bad to worse if it continues the way it is. the chinese threatened through hong kong authorities to arrest protesters who show up in masks. they didn't deliver on that hoping that protest was break up. they did not. have not. hundreds we're told were arrested. we do not know their fate. we'll have more after this. at fidelity those zeros really add up.

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at gm continues. the latest fallout 415 workers in mexico losing their jobs that brings to 12 to 13,000 ancillary jobs in canada and mexico that have been affected by a shortage on supplies, that sort of thing, that has brought the number of those who are out of work or who will be out of work if you add in the 48, 49,000 who are striking and other additional, upwards of 15,000, you're all of sudden up to 64, 65,000, with no sign this is going to end anytime soon. for gm the losses have totaled more than a billion dollars and that could climb still more. grady trimble in the middle of it all in chicago. reporter: hey, neil. coincidentally mexico remains a key sticking point. you just said more temporary layoffs out after plant in mexico. this time about 400 workers, on top of 6,000 mexican workers already temporarily laid off but as we've been seeing a key sticking point in the contract

negotiations according to someone familiar with the talks that general motors has been unwilling to commit to bring back jobs from mexico. the union sent a letter to the union over the weekend. gm countered with a inadequate offer similar to one the union already turned down. the letter adds the company's response did nothing to advance a whole host of issues that are important to you and your families. these negotiations have taken a turn for the worse. general motors stock, it's down slightly today but overall it is down substancely since this strike started. general motors says, it continues to negotiate in good faith and plans to do so as long as this strike and these contract talks continue until the two sides reach a goal. neil, as of right now doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. neil: thank you, my friend, very, very much. an update on that gm strike that goes into its fourth week.

everyone is trying to get their hot little hands on the president's tax returns. this is a new york request that a judge essentially upheld. said the administration can't be blocking this. we're getting word on a stay that the one p.m. plan. the fears are of the white house, once in new york's hands or anyone hands in the political spectrum they will get out quick. that is not a good thing. we'll have more right after this ♪

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neil: all right. it began when a judge ruled, you know, mr. president, as much as you are opposing new york state's efforts to get a handle on your tax returns over the last eight years there is nothing you can do about it. you're not bigger than the government. you're not bigger than the american people or the constitution. so long story short the message from the court was, you got to hand them over and you had to do so by 1:00 p.m. eastern time. others termed it as a flexible deadline. to play it safe the administration was pushing for a stay to hold on it. that appears to be the case for the time-being. let's get the read from blake burman at the white house. they're concerned if this ends up in the state's hands that will be a really big problem. he is not ready to come to us right now. is the judge ready, guys? of course not. i do want to get a cents from former bush 43 speechwriter

anneke green, and dave bursten and "daily caller" news foundation chris bedford. i know i'm breaking this all of you to at the last second. but this has been a drama unfolded earliest days of the campaign when donald trump was very loathe to release those tax returns. obviously he sees this as a political ploy here to get them in someone's hot little hands and get them exposed and released to the world which of course, they swear on a stack of bibles they won't do but what is your sense where this is going? >> i think the president is pretty reasonable in this case to think politics have a role here since new york has essentially declared war on the president and their attorney general and their governor have said this is one of the number one targets. they want to get to the bottom of it. they essentially decided that he is corrupt and being wealthy and being the president isn't allowed. so their lawyers will fight this tooth and nail. he is in a tough spot per usual regarding these tax returns but

i'm not holding my breath to be able to get a look at those in the next week or so if they are gotten by the attorney general's office i suspect they will be leaked. neil: that is the big, legitimate fear. one of the things president long argued the american people elected me knowing i didn't release these. i had no intention of releasing these. you will have to deal. obviously some democrats didn't want to deal with that. they used that as a means to sort of wedge him to cough them up because they wanted to prove that payments may be made in business arrangements and the like, were somehow reflected in those tax returns. what do you think of that, where this is going? >> i think trump is right to suspect that if these are released to the grand jury, which should be under seal they will be leaked. i think he has every reasonable expectation of that. this will be a bit after reach you remember paul ryan way back when running against obama in

the senatorial race, his race was destroyed sealed records from his divorce were miss mysteriously released to activists. the best way to release them himself. he told the american people elected me anyway, but at times he said he would release them so why not do them. neil: impeachment inquiry, this has a small part to do. democrats have been trying to connect the two, maybe he was hiding financial arrangements that had to do with payoffs and the like. the only way this can come to light is get our hands on these records. seems like nefarious way to go about that but where do you think this is going? >> the president has given his opponents a lot to investigate this is one of those things this is going on in new york state. the important to note the judge in this case ruled this on the grounds that not just was their

right to look at the tax returns but the trump white house was making the argument that it was because the president has a immunity from criminal prosecution which the judge in this case struck down. we know this has been debated greatly. we'll see what the court rules. it would be nice to have a ruling from the new york second circuit here on this matter because we'll actually know where they come out and look, if new york state wants to have an investigation to it, they should be allowed to have a legitimate investigation if the court rules that the president is not immune from prosecution. we have courts in this country. and this what they do. neil: could you make an argument as the president's lawyers said if you're extending this to states, let's say you have one after another starting to request, let's say new york's case eight years of tax returns, another state says about your business dealings in our particular state we want more information you can see where it would be a slippery slope. what i'm trying to get from you, chris, is a sense that, what is

good good for the good, is good for the gander. do we set set up a standard a any president at anytime could call up particular documents? this president in modern times has not released his tax returns but it set as precedent after the fact if you don't, this is what happens? >> it is certainly unique in modern times but not unique in american history. george washington was one of the wealthiest men in the nation. had business dealings all over the planet. john kennedy was the richest president we had. donald trump set himself up by refusing to disclose them. if you say anyone running for president has to lay all the financial transactions bare, that leaves politics simply to politicians. most americans, successful businessmen don't want to go through that level of attack and level of sabotage where every

state they can tries to take a piece of the pie and try to take them down. it is not a great strategy for democracy. neil: when i'm looking at it, annike, those who don't flip over the president demanding a hell of a lot of documents from him on the impeachment side. anything and everything to do with ukraine and china. >> right. neil: various cabinet officials what they knew or who they called or texted and now this. it is sort of like a paper hunt the likes of which we have not seen since watergate? >> yes it is. i can't imagine what it is like in trump white house subject to document requests, with a democratic majority. when i was in the white house we had couple of these, preserving records, it interferes employees to do their job and serve the president. i think it is important that the precedent not set up that the state can sue the president for any charges they side to trump up. the important that the house and senate retain constitutional

role bringing up articles of impeachment if they think it is warranted. senate is responsible for removal if they so vote. that is the way it set up and should remain. neil: that is long before we had an is. >> true. neil: to keep you up to date at home a federal judge in new york toss ad lawsuit by donald trump and his lawyers that attempted to block state prosecutors access for eight years of his tax returns. judge effectively saying you have to hand them over. there was earlier report they had to be handed in by one p.m. eastern time. the administration what we're told has been issued a stay to delay that. as they fight it out separately on appeal they should not get those. blake burman at the white house with the latest on this scramble. i have guess it what's it is a scramble. reporter: one page right here, neil, from the appeals court in the second circuit. they issue what is this, two or three sentence ruling essentially a stay as you just said.

the president's accounting firm in new york was set to hand over the president's tax returns, eight years of them filed in new york by 1:00 this afternoon. so what that would have been in 21, 22 minutes but the court of appeals has since sided with the president saying saying that dot have to be turned over here quite literally a matter of minutes. of course one of the next questions is when might they rule what happens next? they will do so in an expedited manner. what exactly expedited means whether we're talking about hours, days or weeks here has yet to be hashed out. so bottom line here it, was a loss in one court earlier this morning as we were talking about at the top of this hour but now the court of appeals has come in to the president's side or at least a ruling favorable to his side saying no, they don't have to hand over tax returns in 20 minutes time. neil: that is all we have, not 20 minutes. thank you very much, blake

burman at white house. judge andrew napolitano with us right now. what do you think? >> well i just finished reading the 75 page opinion by judge victor marrero, the federal district court judge here in manhattan who basically rejected the president's argument that he and third party custodians of his records enjoy total, absolutely limitless immunity from any inquiry about his pre-presidential behavior while he is still in the white house. stated differently the president's lawyers argued to a federal court you can't even begin to investigate anything he did before he was president until after he leaves office. the reason judge marrero rejected that argument is twofold. one there is no authority for it. two, there is federal statute called the anti-injunction act, fancy phrase for federal courts cannot interfere with state prosecutions. this is not the public revelation of his tax returns. this is the delivery of his tax

returns to the district attorney here in new york, to present them to a grand jury, to decide whether or not he committed crimes. is there any evidence of crimes? well, yes there is. there is evidence out of the mouth of his lawyer, michael cohen. may not be credible or he may be credible but he certainly gave prosecutors enough to go on in federal court where his words persuade ad federal judge that the prepresidential donald trump had committed financial crimes. so that is what they're looking for. the stay this morning is what is called an administrative stay. it is not on the merits. it is just issued by the clerk say we haven't even gotten the papers yet. give us a few days to get them and review them. expedited review mean as decision within five, six, or seven days as whether or not the d.a. gets these documents. neil: the d.a. gets the documents, administration fear or anxiety the whole world knows after that.

>> right. listen the d.a., his investigators, and the 23 members of the grand jury are sworn to secrecy. a violation of that secrecy can result in a criminal prosecution of anybody that violates it. the president says, come on, once they have my documents the cat will be out of the bag. we will never fight the leaker, everybody will know it and we will be harmed. ma rare yo says, that is the chance you take because the people can go to jail for leaking this. neil: argument, one state pursuing it a court pursuing it it is open season for anyone on any document at anytime. >> there has to be what is called artic youable suspicion to commence a investigation. you can't have a fishing expedition. neil: what did you call it? >> you taught me that phrase years ago. that is gasparino phrase.

articulable. they have it on basis of documents and testimony michael cohen gave to federal court. without that level of suspicion they can't start a federal investigation because fishing expeditions are prohibited by the fourth amendment. neil: if you're looking to things made to stormy daniels and stuff, how they were accounted for in that return, correct? >> correct. because the state of new york has very strict requirements. stricter than almost any state in the union for how you record your own expenditures. did you record this as a charitable contribution? did you record this as a donation to a political campaign? did you record this as an ordinary reasonable, necessary, quoting the tax code, business expense? because we have evidence from your former lawyer who worked with you on this who says you didn't do it the right way and

you did it in order to hide it and you violated the law. neil: it wasn't a classic business expense? >> correct. neil: a lot of subpoenaing of documents going on not only here at the state level but in new york as you said but with congress now trying to get more documents related to the pentagon, who knew what and when and expanding group of individuals. where is all this going? >> you know, this is, part of a lot of people trying to dislodge president trump from office because they believe he is unworthy of office. this is the president standing up for the fact he was validly, law fully elected. if people want him out of office they can throw him out in 2020 at time of the election. the argument about the congressional subpoenas is very different from the one we're talking about today. neil: right. >> if the house of representatives does not take a formal vote on commencing an impeachment proceeding, the president can exercise all kinds of privileges and stonewall. if they do take a vote and it

passes on commenting impeachment proceedings, his privileges fall. the house has an absolute right to anything they want from him. neil: nancy pelosi says the opposite. he has to respond whether i call for this or not. >> well he has to respond but respond doesn't mean the way she wants. respond could mean a motion before a judge to quash the subpoena. but if it's a formal impeachment, investigation, no judge will hear that motion to quash because then under the constitution the house of representatives has an absolute right to those matters. so now the question becomes, why isn't she taking that vote? either she doesn't have enough votes or it would be all one-sided, she is waiting for more evidence to come out change people's minds. that is political question at that point. neil: back to -- my producer will kill me here, not so much any legalities they're arguing, not submitting any returns, their posture is simply none of

your business. this is an effort to find out how rich the guy is or was and it is not apropos to anything. >> and he is immune from such an inquiry as long as he president of the united states. neil: not when he is not? >> correct. except that, if he gets reelected the statute of limitations for prosecuting these pre-presidential, alleged pre-presidential irregularities and crimes will have expired and he will then be immune from the prosecution. neil: is that part of the articulation? >> part of what the district attorney argued to the court. neil: you lawyers. i don't get it. thank you, judge, very, very much. >> he is paying a lot of lawyers a lot of money, you're not kidding. holy cow. a lot more on that the dow down six points. there is a new wrinkle in the china trade fight. everyone of course will be meeting this week in washington but signs of a partial deal, a partial one could be in the making, after this.

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neil: all right, welcome back, everyone. the dow down one and a quarter points. what took us off the worst levels indication by larry kudlow, white house economic advisor that a partial deal is doable and is not necessarily dead on arrival here. so the china trade talks which we called for structural reforms everything in china, how they get information, intelligence, all of that, that might be on a backburner if we do this. if so, it would be a 180 for this white house who want ad comprehensive across the board deal. all this is based on conjecture from larry kudlow comments. "wall street journal" jon hilsenrath on the significance of this. what do you think? >> so, neil, there has been, the

chinese have been talking for several weeks now about narrowing the scope of the negotiations with the u.s. they're not buying into the idea of major structural reform of their economy, reining in for instance, their support for state-owned enterprises. it looks like there are pieces in place where the two sides might agree to at least calm things down a little bit. the chinese, as we're reporting today, have already been increasing their purchases of u.s. soybeans. so one piece of a potential agreement is, increased imports of u.s. agricultural goods. the chinese have also signaled, that you know, they're willing to look at changing how they enforce intellectual property rules. so that is something that has gone back several months. that could be a piece of it. you know, maybe they take the steps in return for the u.s. backing off on threatened tariff increases. october 15th, there is another round of tariff increases coming. there is another round after

that in december. so maybe they agree to some kind of de-escalation that doesn't esolve the whole conflict. neil: the irony would be, this is a deal, probably if it comes down to what you outlined that could have been scored a while ago but everyone was waiting to see if a more comprehensive one to the president's liking that addresses intellectual property and all that, could be scored. now, if that is out, i know the wall street view, any deal is better than know deal. maybe that wins out for the day. what do you think are the implications of such a deal? >> you know, neil, i don't know if i agree with this idea that any deal is better than no deal because frankly what is holding business back right now is this uncertainty about the trade landscape, and how it is going to play out. if they do some kind of a partial deal where there is still tariffs in place and there might be more put on down the line, i don't think it necessarily reduces that

uncertainty that's holding executives back from investing. neil: i think you're right. i'm sorry, my friend, but the latest reminder this houston rockets general manager had to apologize for a tweet supporting the hong kong protesters and then everyone jumping ugly about it. don't offend china, don't offend china. we thought we progressed from that but this is a clear reminder, no, we haven't. >> this brings, this whole negotiation it shows how it goes beyond just trade and reform of the chinese economy. the president is embroiled right now in impeachment process here in the united states. he is also brought the chinese into the question of whether they should be investigating the biden family. the chinese have, you know, this crisis on their hands in hong kong with civil unrest. and those issues, you have to think, you know, i think for the

negotiators on the trade front, they're trying to put, put them out of the picture but i think for the top lead es, for president xi and president trump, those things will weigh into things. and you know, there is a lot of milestones in the next few weeks including potentially a meeting in november where we have to see how the side stories play into the overall thinking. neil: it makes you wonder, i know you reported on this a lot, u.s. interests to do business in china and continue doing business in hong kong where we've had these protests they will do anything but try to bring on the wrath of china because they all of sudden know their business is screwed, a lot of other business opportunity are hurt. even in the case of a professional basketball franchise, that is held into question. so we still kind of suck up to them, don't we? >> absolutely. you have to remember that american business, american

multinationals, spent the last quarter century building a manufacturing footprint in china. that is their main source of production. also doing everything they can to tap chinese consumers which is this large consumer base, one of the fastest growing consumer bases in the world, for countries like general motors, apple, it's a huge air for business and the nba. american companies are kind of stuck in the middle of this conflict between american workers who president trump is siding with and the chinese and, you know american business is not in a good place right now. neil: so we managed to get more soybeans sold, some other things, hopefully we'll be good but some of the core issues not so good? >> and on the soybeans let's not forget we were sell the chinese a lot of soybeans and they have cut back on how much they -- you have to wonder if they will ramp back up their agricultural imports to where they were and,

we might be asking ourselves in a couple month where did this all get us? neil: jon, thank you very, very much. to john's point. there is a lot we really don't know. what we do know at this point markets are getting ahead of themselves maybe thinking that a trade deal could be had. but if it is the same deal that could be had 18 months ago, if it doesn't cover intellectual property or some of the things the president wanted part of a sweeping deal, a meritorious goal, but one that didn't pan out, chinese wouldn't accept it, more cases like a general manager of the nba bass kel ball team, if you challenge the chinese, you will regret it, not a whole hell of a lot has changed, has it? more after this.

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issue. he's got a stay before he has to release them to new york authorities. we will get into that. this comes at the same time democrats are getting subpoenas to the pentagon, the white house, budget office, much, much more to get their hot little hands on anything and everything having to do with ukraine, with china, with business deals, with looking into elections and certain races and people and backgrounds, business ties. it's a mess. all of this as trade talks with china are kicking off this week amid signs that either one side or both sides blinked or are showing they are willing to reach the other side more than halfway. hard to interpret. i know edward lawrence is very good at doing just that. he joins us out of washington with the latest on that front. edward? reporter: yeah, we will try. let's set the scene. this is where the u.s. trade representative's office is. thursday, there will be primary level talks, again, starts on thursday. the deputy level team came out of that building for the u.s. sidewalk and down this sidewalk and met the chinese deputy level team inside that building right there, because that building has

enough room. they showed up with two busloads of folks. the chinese commerce ministry telling us today that china is here and they stand ready to complete a deal with sections that can be completed. a spokesperson for the office saying the delegation wants to work out the kinks in smaller asks and then work on a timetable for larger items to be finished sometime next year. the white house adviser -- economic adviser larry kudlow saying that could be in the works here, it might be something the u.s. would consider, it depends on what items are on the table. listen. >> we are open to whatever they may bring. we will be open to it short term, long term, we will be open to it. the president's got to defend the american economy. he said he will make a deal but it's got to be the right deal for america. reporter: a statement from the white house says make no mistake, u.s. trade representative will discuss the major issues that they need to confront here in a statement, that says quote, topics of

discussion will include forced transfer of technology, intellectual property transfer, intellectual property rights, services, non-tariff barriers, agriculture and enforcement. these are the big items that the u.s. would like to see in this. the chinese are resisting any change to their legal structure, although the chinese commerce ministry saying they would be able to handle any type of intellectual property theft under administrative regulation. the chinese also resisting any movement to ending the subsidies of their state-owned companies at this point. on trade, i must tell you in about two and a half hours, president donald trump will sign a formal deal with japan related to agriculture and digital trade. this is exactly what was announced in the preliminary stages at the united nations general assembly. they will formalize it today at the white house in about two and a half hours. lots going on. back to you. neil: real quickly, what moved the markets or at least got them off their lows was that line from larry kudlow, open to other matters. in other words, we are open.

reporter: yeah, it's very interesting, sort of a change in tone that we've heard from this administration. now, that's larry kudlow's view on this. there's other economic advisers that are pushing back a little bit. but i can tell you it's a very interesting standpoint to say the chinese are willing to come to the table and work on sections that might not be as sticky as other areas, get that done and out of the way and now for the white house, or at least someone in the white house or connected to it saying they may consider that. it's very interesting. neil: edward, thank you very, very much. let's bring in our panel on all this. political science professor jeanne zano, paul dietrick and david dietze. david, if we are showing flexibility on a trade deal maybe for sort of a partial deal i get that's the possible vernacular, how do you think the street takes that? >> i think the street takes it very positively because anything that can somehow either push

back and delay tariffs or reduce what we've got is obviously a big boost to the bottom line, and that's what wall street cares about. neil: money, money, money. money, money, money. jeanne, what do you think? >> i think that's true. i think part of the concern here is just what you mentioned. you have larry kudlow saying something which helps boost the markets, yet we know we have a president who oftentimes will say contradictory things. that's just what the market doesn't need. neil: he's the rogue guy. >> you said that, not me. neil: if we are back to considering a limited deal which might be the smart way to go because some of these are thorny or bigger issues, we could have had that 18 months ago. >> i'm not so sure. when you start out with trade negotiations, you throw everything in. neil: absolutely. absolutely. >> and then narrow. if you talk to the people who are on the fed, i was talking last week to some of the trade

negotiators in washington and they were basically saying look, we have always known that there are some priorities, and the priorities for bob lighthizer are to have tough enforcement. whether they change their laws or not, he has developed mechanisms that will go into effect and if they cheat, if they steal our technology, if they force transfer of technology, it goes to an arbitrator and then we can put on immediate tariffs. we don't have to go through the world trade organization which takes forever, and if we can get that through -- neil: and the chinese would honor that? >> it doesn't matter whether they honor it or not. neil: yeah, it does. >> no, if they cheat, they feel the pain immediately. they have never felt the pain with the world trade organization. they cheat, we win in the world trade organization and ten years later, nothing has changed because they keep appealing the ruling. neil: that's something that they would have to do whatever they're saying. i know the chinese are pretty

clever at avoiding that. maybe there is language in the deal that ultimately does that. what if there's not? >> i think there has to be. the question is whether they will observe it. certainly if they agree to some clear-cut rules, it's going to be easier to get public opinion, even global opinion, to go back after china. neil: you think they care about public opinion, world opinion? >> absolutely. that's why they are concerned about the tweets from the general manager of the houston rockets. sure they do. neil: i was more offended by how, you know, this poor guy had to apologize for those comments and dial them back. we are still sucking up to them. >> absolutely. you have seen, this guy is still hanging on to his job but i wouldn't be surprised if he can't do that much longer. he has been hit terribly by this. a tweet, let's not forget, that was defending democratic protesters. you see how swift that was from the nba, from the rockets. neil: that's my point. we are still playing this game where a lot of american ceos, american interests,up, walk on eggshells with china.

>> look, we are all for human rights. i was struck by the difference in how the hong kong media, when i was reading south china posts this morning, how they were dealing with this and the u.s. media is dealing with it. even the pro-protester media in hong kong is kind of rolling their eyes at this statement. i mean, it's like if the general manager of a british soccer team criticized new york and chicago police on how they -- neil: i'm not really offended by how the chinese are reacting. i'm offended more by how we are handling that. leaving that aside, i'm wondering if the optimism is there that a trade deal can be scored, does it matter the kind of deal to you? or just that we got uncertainty out of the way? >> certainly you want to see concession on the part of the chinese. you want them to drop tariffs they have on our goods, they will boost imports of agricultural goods. yeah. neil: what if they only bring

agricultural imports up to the level they were prior? >> well, i mean, you know, i think they are going to promise a lot more than that. the reality is what actually happens. at this point, of course, they already set up new trade chains with brazil and other places. i don't think you will see all the way back to where it was. neil: switch it around. whatever people think about china, the united states or their trade positions, is it your sense that china has been hurting, we have seen our economy stumbling, that the bang for the buck or the yen or yuan is such that it might be too late? what do you think? >> i do not think it is too late. i do think that they could come up with a deal. i think still, my big question -- neil: and help the global economy, help remove the uncertainty -- >> some of the uncertainty. i wouldn't say help remove all the uncertainty. but some of it. at least to make people feel a bit more optimistic but i do think a big question here remains the uncertainty of our president. you are talking about what lighthizer wants but is the president going to go along with a partial deal and be able to

sell that politically as a big win? this is a guy who says he is the king deal maker. if you are talking a small deal, you know, he can try to sell that but i don't know if that helps him. >> you know, he's starting to sell this deal because, china is the crown jewel of the american economy and going forward, and if he gets that, if he gets that alone and we are able to put tariffs on immediately any cheating that goes on in that sector, that's a deal he can sell. >> do his own negotiators feel like they can sell this to the president? it's been long felt there's sort of a divide where they feel they are making progress and -- neil: he's ripped up many a deal. >> he's not going to rip up a deal that's going to save american technology and stop them from cheating. that was the main priority

always and that's something he can sell. >> but let's go beyond that. even a small deal does make a lot of sense because look what's happened, you have diversified our reliance on china already, some of these chain supplies have gone to other countries like vietnam. also, we have new respect in terms of our negotiation with mexico, canada and europe. the people realize america means business in terms of levelling out the trade field. so i think this exercise is worthwhile. neil: this has done nothing to help stocks. we are down 44 points. great job, guys. i came here to make a point. part of scoring a trade deal is to remove a level of uncertainty out there, whether it's justified or not. one of the uncertainties out there for ceos and chief financial officers, and you have seen it certainly in the contracting manufacturing numbers and what's happening in the services sector, a lot of them don't know how this is going to resolve itself. if it looks like that is taken care of, that might be enough to keep a second leg or third or can you have fourth legs in bull

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daechlts. susan: swift and severe was the reaction from china in reaction to the general manager of the houston rockets and his tweets over the weekend saying for freedom stand with hong kong. there wasn't really an apology from the nba but they did say it was regrettable so many chinese fans were offended by this tweet, but the reaction from the business side was more severe and that includes the chinese basketball association, suspending ties with the houston rockets. also the largest streamer, tencent along with chinese state television both saying they will no longer carry houston rockets games. also the sportswear maker saying they will stop working with the houston rockets. this puts the nba in a very tough position because they have long fought to protect the freedom of speech but they recognize that china is the future for them, the largest international market. in fact, the most watched pro sports on chinese tv, that's the nba. more than 600 million stream the game. you can imagine the hundreds of millions that actually watch it

on television. but we also had u.s. politicians jumping into this controversy as well, including ben sasse in a statement, the republican from nebraska says the american people more broadly should have absolutely no doubt about what is happening here. the nba wants money and the communist party of china is asking them to deny the most basic of human rights. in response the nba issued a statement saying money is the most important thing. ted cruz of texas called the nba shameful and beto o'rourke says the nba is an embarrassment. on the converse of that argument, it's interesting, another controversy brewing in hong kong over the skateboarding schoomaker ban. originally they held this competition for a popular design and this one which depicts the hong kong protests was one of the most popular but i guess they went ahead of the curve and pulled it because they didn't want any controversy stemming from china. as a result, they have hong kong now saying they want to ban and

they want to basically, you know, go against what's happening with vans and don't buy vans shoes in the city. call this a divisive topic. back to you. neil: to put it mildly. thank you very much. to add insult to sort of protest injury, "south park" has had to face fire, too, after [ inaudible ] for shaping its content to please the chinese government, china responded by deleting all clips and episodes and discussions of the comedy central show. that's just a comedy show. everybody lighten up. i have my panel back with me. jeanne, paul, david. jeanne, what do you think of this? >> i think one thing, when we talk about risk to clients, this is going to be a case study for the new wave of risk that corporations are facing like the nba, like the rockets, like comedy central, is one employee can go out, tweet something and

have this dramatic impact on your business is really something we haven't seen. ten years ago you didn't see anything like that. there's that part. the other part is absolutely astonishing to imagine that you now have american companies who are coming down on somebody for supporting democratic protests -- neil: they don't want to hurt business. they don't want to hurt business. >> but then do they face any backlash is also a question in the u.s. or elsewhere for this sort of attempt to, you know, sort of pacify china. they are in a very difficult situation here. i think we have to recognize that. neil: david, i can understand china's response. it's predictable. i get that. i'm offended by ours. >> look, certainly you don't bite the hand that feeds you. of course, it is a very tricky situation now that politicians are now, you know, coming to the defense of the right for free speech. we believe that, too. but of course, those politicians aren't also getting their

donations from china so they can, you know, take that tack. >> we don't believe in free speech. nbc's "saturday night live" a couple weeks ago censored a comic for making jokes that they didn't like, and they took him off the show. neil: we are just as guilty? >> we are just as guilty. i think we ought to give comics a free pass. comedy is supposed to be offensive. neil: and nba general managers, right? give everyone a free pass to say what they feel, not worry about retribution, right? >> can we say the difference is this is a state cutting off of free speech. you are talking nbc. i agree with you. but those are companies. so there's a difference. neil: but that doesn't -- >> there is a difference there. neil: that's what they've always done. i thought what was changing in this environment is we weren't going to take it anymore. >> i agree with you. of course, you know, these corporations are and they are going to hear it from politicians but it's going to depend on whether there's an american, you know, blowback

kind of thing which i don't think we will see. neil: i think the blowback started when it looked like we were objesequious with this. i just thought naively our posture had changed and we weren't going to play suck-up games. >> you don't have the right to do business in china so the blowback from china was expected. certainly the houston rocket employee is not going to be put in jail. but it's going to cost him. >> he may not have his job pretty soon. >> you know, i had a dissident from tiananmen square days on my weekend show. she was of the opinion this whole hong kong thing is going to be settled the only way china knows how, violently. while we might look and say they will only hurt themselves, this business juggernaut, she remembers quite well how the world sort of shrugged its collective shoulders, protested a little bit but life went on. i pointed out yeah, but now

china has become this huge economic power. she still said no, when push comes to shove, this is who they are. >> look at what they're doing to the uighurs. they are torture camps. neil: this is the muslim sect better than a million strong. no, s nothing has changed. should we do business with them? >> we do business with all sorts of not so nice people in africa. neil: nothing to control that in whatever trade talks? >> look at the other side of the coin. what if china and hong kong just permits these protests to go on and on? if you are a better that wants to do business in hong kong you will go there because there's no law and order. if they don't do something eventually they will lose respect of the business community. people are going to be unlawful, you have to be, you know, use force at a certain point. >> how often have we been successful when we have tried to change other people -- neil: apartheid in south africa, we did it through economic pressure. >> we did.

neil: the same here? >> no. we're not going to. >> let's not forget this is not a big part of the negotiations going on. so you know, there you go. nothing's going to happen about it. neil: all right. on that upbeat note -- >> sorry, neil. neil: the dow down 37 points. elizabeth warren calling out the business roundtable and if she were president of the united states she would be doing a lot more than that. why many in the business roundtable are echoing her views. out of fear? after this. val, vern... i'm off to college and i'm not gonna be around... i'm worried about my parents' retirement. oh, don't worry. voya helps them to and through retirement... ...dealing with today's expenses... ...like college... ...while helping plan, invest and protect for the future. so they'll be okay... without me? um... and when we knock out this wall imagine the closet space? yes! oh hey, son.

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neil: general motors is not the only headline in the auto world today. jackie deangelis has some of the latest news from the nyse. jackie: the market is lower but a couple bright spots here. uber is one of them. shares upgraded by citi to a buy. price target saying the same, at

$45 a share. that was the ipo price. the analysts cite improving fundamentals here, saying the third quarter results could signal renewed revenue growth. top line growth of course is good. bottom line growth is what investors want to see. they want to see a path to profitability. citi also says the value of uber eats may not accurately be priced into the stock, trading at $30.36 right now. also take a look at tesla shares. they are up today after reports that it bought a company which will allow it to specialize in high speed battery manufacturing for its electric vehicles. the acquisition of course could help make these batteries in house and that's something that's very important to the business. the company's called high bar systems. tesla listed it on an early october filing as a subsidiary, according to electric autonomy, a news site. finally, take a look at shares of ge. slightly lower on the day but some news here about freezing pension plans for 20,000 employees.

what analysts and investors like this about, debt reduction for the company, taking their deficit down by $5 billion to $8 billion and net debt down four to six. neil, back to you. neil: thank you very much. covered a lot there. dow down about 32 points. we are going to be in the middle of earnings season, all the numbers of the third quarter will be coming out in the next few weeks. they're not expecting much to write home about here. a contraction anywhere from 3% to 5% depending on the survey here. now, it might be a case of a lot of these companies preparing for the worst. i did this as a kid, tell my parents i was going to get ds and fs, if i had cs and ds i was like einstein. it was a relief. is the same going to happen here? after this. announcer: fidelity is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero

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neil: all right. earnings expectations on the s&p 500, look at the s&p again, decline of about 2.2%. if you're looking at others, all sorts of estimates, they are going to be down. that's the guesstimate, as much as 5%, as little as 2%. but they are going to be down. that's the expectation. stanford school of business lecturer david dodson on why he thinks that might be the case. what do you think? >> i think there's a lot of evidence the economy is softening. we tend to look at the jobs report and then we look at the gdp growth rate. but that's all things that happened in the past. there's a lot of clues in these reports that tell you about what's going to happen in the

future so for example, when i get the jobs report, one of the things i look at is overtime. corporate overtime hours that are being offered to employees is down by almost 10% this year. that's really an indication of some softening in dme. the gdp growth rate, that's just kind of a fancy way of saying how much stuff we're buying, if you want to know how much stuff we are going to be buying next month, look at how consumers are paying for the things they bought this month. if you look at default rates on auto loans, if you look at credit card balances, if you look at the percent of people who are paying off their credit cards, all of that's indicating people are starting to struggle with paying for the things they bought this year. neil: before i extend this to my panelists who are eager to talk to you, one of the things that's come up is uncertainty of trade that a lot of companies don't know how to handicap that, so they just put it on it there as potential headwinds they're facing and they have been sort of battening down the financial hatches. what do you think of that? >> i mean, it's really dreadful for these companies that have complex manufacturing supply

chains. these are supply chains that got created over decades, and they are very intricate and now they are being sort of dismantled in ways that are very disruptive. now, in the short term they are disruptive economically because everything becomes more expensive and then you add tariffs on top of it, that's going to have a lot of negative pressure on earnings. but long-term, what business likes and everybody knows this, what business likes is they like certainty, they like to know what's going to happen. there is so much uncertainty happening in washington, d.c. it's maddening for companies. >> dave, this is paul dietrich. in looking at that jobs report, it seemed like a lot of the overtime going down came out of manufacturing. and manufacturing is only 10% of the u.s. economy, 70% of the u.s. economy is consumer spending and you know, jobs are still growing, wages are still growing. i think next quarter is going to be really good.

that's usually the consumer quarter. and so i was wondering whether we put too much emphasis, there's no question manufacturing is in decline, but that overtime, i agree with you, the overtime shows where we're going but i think it shows more where we're going in manufacturing than in the overall economy. what do you think? >> well, i agree with you that you can't just look at manufacturing. the number that i looked at is -- lines up with what you were thinking, which is it's the total overtime, both service, mining, manufacturing, i was looking at the total number which came down by 9.5%. but the income is also an interesting number because you know, we tend to look at the income as the change in the wage rate, but what's really important for a wage earner is what their paycheck looks like, right? if they are getting less overtime, and by the way, number of hours has come down so far this year, their paycheck is smaller. that's lost in those numbers of

what the wage rates are. so if i'm a shift worker at best buy, or i work in a mine, and my wages went up by 6% this year, but the number of overtime hours i got were dropped by 10%, that's a reduction in my income. >> i thought in that report, that they actually said that most, not all, certainly, but the decline in overtime was primarily in the manufacturing sector. certainly overweighted. >> yeah. i mean, you know, it's a maddeningly difficult report because there's, what, there's 30 different line items there, and when i was looking at the line items, it looked to me like there were two places that were getting hit hard. one was manufacturing, as you said, but the other was in the service sector. >> i wanted to ask, is the news we're hearing today about say we do get a short-term deal out of the administration vis a vis china, how much would that change sort of your forecast in terms of what you expect to see in the next quarter or next year?

>> well, jeanne, it's interesting you ask it that way, because my feeling in the next quarter or next year would be, you know, optimistic. i think everybody would breathe a massive sigh of relief and we could get back to business as usual and i think there would be more political stability. however, my worry is, what is that long term because i can't see a world right now where china is going to be making painful concessions to the united states right now, because given our political situation and given that we've got an election coming up, i can't imagine why china would make, you know, those kind of concessions. what i worry about is not the next quarter or next year but i worry about maybe what's going to happen in the next decade with that trade relationship. of course, that's what the president has been focused so hard on is trying to fix the long-term relationship between the united states economy and the chinese economy. >> it's david dietze. you know, as we say on wall street, it's not just the market, it's a market of sectors. are there some sectors you are more optimistic on and others you are more cautious on?

>> well, i don't really have -- that's a fair question. i really don't have a point of view on which sectors might go up or down over the next quarter or so but here's an issue that i am speaking of sectors, here's an issue i am sort of interested in, which is if there's a recession or if there's a downturn, we know that all downturns aren't the same. in 2008, it hit homeowners who had mortgages, hit them disproportionately hard because they had big mortgages. this downturn is likely to hit 18 to 30-year-olds disproportionately hard because the student loan rate is 183% of what it was before. so here's the interesting sort of political economic cocktail we may be staring down. if there's a downturn or recession, it's going to hit them way harder. their unemployment rate is four times the national average. it's going to hit them harder. that's piece number one. piece number two is over the last ten years, that sector has become very disenchanted with the system. in fact, the favorability of capitalism among that group has gone from 64% in ten years down

to 45%. so they don't believe in the system. here's the last piece. tufts university recently released some interesting data about student voting. student voting in the midterm elections in 2018 doubled from 19% to 40%, it doubled. so now you've got a cohort going into the 2020 election who have a very different viewpoint on economic policy and it's more far left economic policy. i actually think that could translate into u.s. policy over the next four to eight years. neil: i don't know what's more remarkable there, dave, that a guy from stanford is quoting a tufts survey, or that we have to really worry about that. always great having you, professor. thank you for taking the time. >> yes, sir. neil: a quick peek at what's turning things around for stocks, up about 56 points. doesn't hurt that apple is putting in a good day, flirting in and out of near record territory but again, we are following this very very closely. apple, remember, had to ramp up production of its new iphones by

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neil: all right. elizabeth warren is challenging the business roundtable in more ways than one, and saying that their beholden nature to share holders is part of the problem. to charles payne, who says maybe that's the problem right there, what she's saying. charles, good to see you. what's going on here? charles: you know, the business roundtable shocked the business world when they said profits are no longer the main driver for business so elizabeth warren is saying is that right, then let me take you up on that. i got to tell you, i think it's a brilliant move on her part. they said forget about profits, it's all about quote unquote, stake holders, deliver value to customers, sponsor diversification, inclusion,

dignity and respect. they want to deal fairly and ethically with suppliers, support the communities they work in and then long term, yeah, we will generate value for our shareholders. so you know, she's essentially saying that's my platform. i agree they should put up or shut up. i don't know that that's her platform. neil: you have been arguing that it's the way they do it in germany and that's not exactly been on fire lately. >> yeah. german companies have been stymied, they haven't been able to globally compete because they put labor unions exactly on the same plane as shareholders and you know, i mean, business roundtable, we can't forget that a lot of the business roundtable supported democrats clinton -- neil: that might be coming into play here. >> i don't actually believe they believe that. this is a p.r. strategy just for the public. i don't believe anybody on the business roundtable believes all that stuff. neil: charles, the business roundtable blinked on this,

didn't it? charles: big-time. huge. i got to tell you, i hear where paul is coming from but something is changing. it's more than just corporate virtue signaling and getting rid of plastic straws. something significant is changing. that will have major ramifications for people watching this show and their portfolios and even the economy. neil: the latest proof is probably the success of this movie "joker." this is a preview of coming attractions, i guess. that was a little artistic reference there. but this guy is the face of the stock market now. ♪ ♪

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are you concerned about the slowdown in manufacturing? >> i am. we're looking at that carefully. something's beyond our control. i mean, the boeing problem, they

stopped producing airplanes for awhile. the gm strike with the uaw. those things are not helping. neil: that was larry kudlow. anything can happen on a deal. that's kind of what he's saying here. then he has the wild card of general motors, the ongoing strike entering its fourth week, signs that thousands more are getting laid off as a result of the effect of this lasting as long as it has. my panel back with me. i'm looking at this, jeanne and paul, and david, the longer this drags on, the gm thing might be the bigger issue, not so much the china trade issue. >> well, i'm shocked that it hasn't already been a bigger issue. this is not your father's economy. it used to be that drone strike on saudi arabia, the oil would go through the roof and the strike against the auto workers, this economy would be in the tank but we're really not. i guess it says to me that the auto industry is a much smaller part of the economy. people are deferring holding off

their cars, they want to take uber and lyft and are looking for the electric car. neil: they are also now taking out seven-year loans. >> no, you know, the one thing is i would say is that it also, it may be a small part of the xhesh economy, it has an outsized impact. think about what's coming in the election, especially if it's fought out in the rust belt like it was in 2016 and the president is going to have to win the midwest, he's going to have to win the rust belt states and that's where a lot of his focus is going to be. neil: he trails in states like wisconsin and all that. that's on paper and it's very early, but how do you think it sets up for the president in these industrial states? >> you know, i mean, this gm stri strike, it's not as if consumer don't have a choice of other automobiles to buy if they want to buy them. this will have no effect on the overall u.s. economy. neil: even if it drags on for awhile? >> even if it drags on. it will just have no effect. other manufacturers will do better for it. honda will do better, all of

those sort of things. but i just don't see it having any major effect. and i don't see that it's going to necessarily get trump voters to vote against him. neil: it is interesting that the thorny issue appears to be the company's move toward electric cars, where they need fewer workers and those workers want guarantees and protections, and i can't see gm giving that. >> they can't afford to. because the competition is tesla and they don't face the same sort of pressures. interestingly, a generation ago the president would force both parties into the room but today, general motors has no support because we bailed them out and of course, the workers have more folks in management in key rust belt states so trump's on the sidelines. neil: we talked about the consumer and how he's in pretty good shape, so much good shape they will spend a record number of dollars to watch a very dark movie, "joker" smashing box office records with $93.5

million, more than $230 million worldwide. it was deemed dark, depressing, all of that and it made a lot of money. >> did you see it this weekend? neil: i did indeed. >> you did? i was too scared. was it frightening? neil: i have never seen such a dark character. if he misses out on an oscar there's something wrong. it's an appeal, right? >> absolutely. it's that old marketing ploy, if you want people to use your product, get someone to ban it or talk about -- neil: the drama around that helps, right? >> kids do not care about the political correctness of the liberal media or academics. let them stay in their safe room so they're not offended. what kind of culture are we that we are afraid of a marvel comic book villain? neil: so much for the notion that you have to leave them

happy. i don't want to give the movie away. but it won't leave you happy. it's not that. >> the number two movie was stephen king's "it." it's just as violent and depressing. neil: he was a more appealing clown, i thought. who am i to judge. meantime, edward lawrence right now is reporting the chinese commerce ministry, china is indeed ready to do a deal with the u.s. on part of these negotiations, in other words, a partial deal. that fuels this argument we are headed towards a partial deal. >> that looks to be where we are headed towards. i would love to hear the president come out and say that he's open to that and what part of that partial deal is he -- neil: he put a kibosh on that today. >> i can't imagine that. neil: the market would tank, right? >> i think we are really hoping for a small deal because a small deal prevents a big blowup. that's what the economy and the market will like. neil: do you think given the time we've had, you touched on it at the outset, we waited so

long for this and it turns out to be a deal that could potentially have been scored many many months ago, any effect or not? >> i disagree that this couldn't have been done many months ago. neil: why not? >> it's taken a long time to get all of these 300 sectors or parts of the economy to get enforcement mechanisms and stuff like that. it's going to be a big, thick agreement and i don't think we could have done it 18 months ago. i think this is -- if we get a partial deal and it's on stopping the stealing of technology, that is big. neil: but any faith they will stick to it? >> yes. neil: really? >> because the agreements that bob lighthizer has done is that they immediately get tariffs. now, if you are asking are we going to put the tariffs on, well, that's our fault if we don't. but -- neil: they don't stick to certain levels, the tariffs go into effect? >> they steal technology or

force transfer in a particular area, it goes to a quick arbitration, it's independent, not the wto, and then if we win, we can put -- neil: but is this as important now as it was in the beginning? have we moved from here looking at other issues, the economy itself, both economies have weakened a little, china's, a lot of companies have moved out of china, spread the wealth around. >> i still think it's as important now as it was when this all started. i mean, i do think enforcement is going to be critical. i also wonder, are we going to be seeing something like nafta where the president -- they negotiated a deal but when you look at it, it doesn't look that different from the original deal. so if we don't see -- i know you are saying small is big, i get that, but i do think there's a question to be asked there for the president both for the economy and politically. >> the future of this country is on our technology. that's the crown jewels. we have to protect them.

neil: i think you're missing something bigger. the future is the mcrib. mcdonald's mcrib. i'm happy to say in the middle of all this fighting, the mcrib is coming back i think for a limited time. you strike me as a very healthy eater. you all strike me as healthy. i was amazed to see the mcrib when it first came out, those aren't real ribs. they are very good. >> tip my hat to mcdonald's. it's outperformed the dow for the last five weeks. neil: really has. nice dividend. >> they are able to come out with these things and get free publicity, like we sit around this table and talk about that. neil: i'm only mentioning it because they send they would send 100 to me. no, i'm joking. >> only a hundred? i saw them coming out with it, i went to mcdonald's yesterday, i had two mcribs for lunch yesterday. neil: did you really? they are only in certain restaurants, right? you won't let your kids touch this stuff? >> i never had a mcrib.

neil: whoa! what are you doing here? >> when they send you 100, can i try one? neil: oh, man. i remember vividly my wife and i, she says those aren't real ribs. she looked at me like an alien creature gobbling those up. all right. you don't do this, the mcrib is back, all is right with the world or most of it. more after this. is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero it's what gives audible themembers an edge.listening; it opens our minds, changes our perspective, connects us, and pushes us further. the most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories:

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neil: definitely optimism on china trade talks commenced this week has markets raising ahead almost 80 points. a partial deal could be in the offing. stocks are running up than anticipation. we're going to be taking later on 4:00 p.m. eastern time on "your world" on fox news to republican senator rand paul. what he makes of that optimism. what he also makes of the quick

push to get the president's tax returns, our about-face in syria and signals that could be sending. he of course is a big proponent of the u.s. sort of extracting it self from these regions. that coming up two hours from now. charles payne now. charles: i'm charles payne. this is "making money." nice reversal on the market. initially struggling for direction. we're now 230 points off the low as maybe, just maybe we might reach some sort of a deal that could be good out comes. here is the thing. we'll set you up for all three potential out comes in the show. plus elizabeth warren flexing her muscles calling out ceos to put shareholders ahead of stakeholders. this after mark zuckerberg says no one deserves to be a billionaire. he is pandering to the socialist idea that