fox news channel. plus on fox business every weekday tuning weekday six to 9:00 p.m. eastern on fox business. have a great rest of the weekend. that will do it for us for now. i will see you again next time. ♪ >> hello, and welcome to the wall street journal at large. competition, free markets, choice. those of the terms that americans doubt the history to find their economy. the u.s. has been seen as a cockpit of dynamic, where they resources and rewards. today questions are being raised about whether capitalism is still working for america. we see that question on display in the 2020 presidential campaign where is bernie sanders and elizabeth warren are proposing government programs to

intervene in the economy and saunders and other members of the party are not shy about identifying themselves at a democratic socialist. on the other side president trump and republicans are for training that is dangerous for america. some reason polling shows the capitalism and socialism through the lens of the political affiliation. a survey by two research taken earlier this year ruled 65 had a positive view of capitalism with 42% saying the same for socialism. however, republicans and those leaning republican 50% had a favorable view of socialism. 65% leaning democrat did. while majority of americans give capitalism the thum thumbs-up, y guest argues something has gone wrong with the nations economic mobile. what used to be highly competitive dynamic free market has morphed into something else

one increasingly dominated by huge companies that are eliminating choice, reason prices and harming the consumer impairing the strength of the world largest economy. in an especially ironic twist he says it europe what we like to think of of the social democratic content whose economy has become more free, a professor financed new york university in the new book the great reversal of how america gave up on free markets. welcome and thank you for coming. explain the thesis. we like to think of america as free market, choice, lots of opportunity and you go to the supermarket and you can choose anything you like, that's associated with free-market capitalism, should tell us why that's wrong. it was true, the u.s. of free-market low prices, this is the u.s. i discovered when i came hear from europe in 1999 for 20 years ago. what's astonishing over the past 20 years how things of change. many of the good and services

that were cheaper in the u.s. and in europe 20 years ago now are cheaper in europe than in the u.s. >> give us examples. tell us about the prices. >> if you live in the u.s. you probably -- the median household is $68 per month for having broadband access internet at home. the median household in france is $31. in the uk germany is $3235. about half of what american households pay. the same as for yourself on, if you live in berlin, london, paris and madrid you would pay half or less of what you pay today for yourself on plan. >> reno airlines, all of those websites and look at land prices and we see exactly this in price by most airlines in assisting for every two. >> 20 years ago the u.s. had eight major airlines over the country. today only a fourth so they went from 8 - 4 in europe went the other way. 20 years ago we had

nationalities owned by the government and not very competitive and once we've done over the cost 20 years is to bring in to force the carriers to get their act together and lower prices. >> which is why today flying is cheaper in europe. >> how widespread is this, is this true gold band airlines is it true to much of the economy customer. >> it's true for the majority but not all. if you look at cases they're different than the rest and there are some industries that are still extremely competitive and cheap but the majority that today if you look at the broad services the typical household in the estimate is that the overspend they should be at $500

of purchasing power if the market was where it used to be. >> that has all happened in 20 years since you came here? >> absolutely. again you say the overall is about $5000 per year? >> that is a striking finding. that's why it's a good move to write it. people have an improvement in the market that used to be more fragmented and big firms and everybody knows they're paying too much for their cell phone right now but many of the services and thereafter notices together. it actually is very hard to put a business together but today my estimate is roughly right his immediate household they would have about $5000 of purchasing power per year if market was competitive as today. about $3000 from lower prices and think of the household of being a consumer and as consumer they would get about 3000 extra dollars. and they would have to invest

more and move up the wages and productivity would go up and that would bring a 2000 extra dollars and together for a family that would be about $5000. that's a lot of money. >> one thing we have seen in the last 20 years is low inflation, a phenomenon since the end of the 1990s were inflation has been dead and you say prices and other areas have fallen significantly and the prices have been lot to lot but in these particular sectors prices hover listen significantly. these combined with the fact that the data and looking at, you only see things happening if you take a long time. roughly speaking prices are about 7% to 8% from where they should be that's over 20 years. that's a very small number. you would never notice it from one year to the next you would not notice in your grocery bills and the things you like typically it's only when you take a big lens and you look

over a long term and to eat away the processing power. >> how does this happen, how do we get to it, why have we seen the situation where american workers and consumers are significantly worse off because of lack of competition, how do we get to this. >> gotten interesting fighting better europe gets interesting as you said the irony looks like europe went the other way. the thing that's important, the reason europe today doing better than any other market, is precisely because your adopted the american playbook of the 1990s, when europe set up the single market along 1985, 25 years ago, we looked around and said what the best single market, obviously the u.s. so which one do we want to adopt, what we did was brought in the u.s. playbook, give it to strong

independent regulators and we ran with it, 20 years later prices have come down in the purchasing power has increased. over the same period of time, the u.s. has forgotten its own history. >> u.s. and got more europeans in european has more mickens. we will take a short break. more with the professor why he believes capitalism in america has changed for the worse and further on how we got here. don'n'n'n' driverless cars, or trips to mars. no commission. delivery drones, or the latest phones. no commission. no matter what you trade, at fidelity you'll pay no commission for online u.s. equity trades. at fidelity you'll pay no commission i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late. or make me feel like i'm not really "there." talk to your doctor, and call 844-234-2424.

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by consolidating your credit card debt into one monthly payment. and get your interest rate right so you can save big. get a no-fee personal loan up to $100k. >> welcome back my guest economist thomas. we were talking about how the u.s. has become more european and as we used to think of it in europe's become more american and free markets. let's focus on america. how do we go in 20 years to the situation were so many sectors are dominated by two or three or four major company.

>> that's a very couple get a question. you can think of it as concentration. i think that's clearly something that happened in the airline case in the silicone and other industries. but you also have a bunch of issues which is many regulations that have the growth of medium and small companies. and that's competition, they really goes both ways, it is not about more with good regulation. sometimes that means removing regulation. >> gimme example that they discourage new interns into new markets. >> many industries -- give licensing requirement that a man creeping up the state level and then you have all the regulations the only the last company.

any given year that's a small effect but if you have 20 years younger lack of injury by new business which is what they say. >> you talk about the role of lobbying company spend huge amount of money on lobbying in the state and federal level and they get result. >> absolutely. they have will result over time. so when you see the data very large increase expenditure of the u.s. by u.s. companies in the form of compelling financing or towards the legislator and that is showing the data that you can predict excess profit and concentration using this lobbying. if there is another point in time in two or three years later, surprisingly the margins are higher and less entry and less enforcement action against him. >> the fact that the political system means so much cash

because of the campaign spending. >> the big compartment, the amount of contribution has gone out to campaigns. that is something that happens in 2000. it did not really happen as much as before. that is what is changed. >> europe in brussels. >> that is interesting when the regulars were design, that's the funny part, because they don't trust each other, the germans did not trust the french and the french do not trust the germans. in all of this for the two big ones to agree together in the outcome was going to be very independent to be sure nobody gets to regular. we did it for that reason -- >> again you pointed out very

clearly how the u.s. has lost and become more competitive, overall the u.s. economy compared with europe has been stronger the last 20 years the u.s. has almost double the rate of growth that europe is had in the last ten years and if this is true with the american economy coming more free, why is it better than europe? >> it's not that much better than europe. the difference is 20%. in germany in 1999 compared today, the growth exactly the same as the u.s. up to the point. if you take the average for europe because of italy and might be slightly lower but if you take that you and there from the u.s., roughly speaking it's not that different. that's the first thing to keep in mind. and population growth. the more important thing is

growth on many things. innovation, funding and free markets. a used to be the u.s. had all three in the best innovation and venture capital as well as free markets. europe felt better but first on the first two. >> some people argue that monopolistic practices are actually needed to encourage investment anyway you can make a sizable return on investment in the big silicon valley, if you have monopoly power. is there conflict between the environment that will create competition customer. >> that is interesting. that is your job and that's what

business is all about. in the job of the government is to make sure you might become a monopoly on the big change we've seen is profits have become higher and more persistent over time. that is about time. monopoly as a motivation but you should not take forever. >> one more break (people talking) for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th. skip to the good part with alka-seltzer plus. now with 25% more concentrated power.

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what does that market have on the economy. >> that's an interesting market, people get most of the facts wrong, they think tech is exceptional but if you look at the history of the u.s. you've amazing companies issues names change, at&t, ge, i'm today is google, amazon and apple. you can look in compared to innovation in compared to what they're doing. and it seems to have more on the economy than today. and it's slightly overrated. on the other hand it is clear they do have positions in key markets and they create issues. >> what needs to be done, breakup companies, should they break up companies with mergers and disaggregate the market? >> they need due to something

going forward and undoing a merger is like on scribbling eggs. unfortunately that will take a lot of time. >> you pointed out in the book that's what they did with at&t and that led to a portion of competition so breaking up companies is tough, possibly but tough. >> it's usual even if you don't succeed. you don't want to be too tough, it's a very bad system if the regulator will only prosecute but there sure to win. how they will fail and it's okay. and you think that this will get and you should try. at the end of the day it might not be enough but you should try. >> what else can be done to use more competition? >> some of the things have to do with regulation and data possibility and competitive. >> how would that work?

that would work across all industry. >> yes a big impact on tech and finance. it is something we impose on the industry throughout and you can call everybody with one phone and if you switch from one provider to the next it can be a cell phone number. that is the equivalent with your social network in your data and your friends. that's a no-brainer and a regulatory change. that is step one. after that you have to look at companies one by one because outside is not the same for amazon or google or facebook. >> there's an irony that people think of regulation with being stifling and companies have to do with which is difficult and slows growth and innovation and productivity but the kind of regulation you're talking about is regulation to make the market

more dynamic. >> of people can take one thing away, it should not be about less regulation. that's a wrong way to think about it. where we are today you should think of good regulation or regulation that will increase competition. sometime less regulation and getting way with licensing requirement. if it's about breaking a company or forcing them to share, it's more regulation. the key is improving competition. >> a final question, there's concern about capitalism and as a set at the beginning among democrats for socialism and you do not expect to see. you think addressing these issues would help to restore the faith and capitalism? >> i think it would have a significant income. my estimate is the middle class, the middle bottle which is the heart of the american economy, their income would go up by

$5000 which would move back. that would make much more supporter of capitalism. >> a terrific book. good read and fascinating thesis and good data. an excellent book. it's called the great reversal on how america gave up on free markets. my thanks to you. just ahead which economic model has led to prosperity than any other. i will tell you after the break ♪ ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. geico would like to take a moment to say thank you to our military service members at home and abroad for all their hard work and sacrifice. we all sleep easier knowing you're out there keeping us safe. and on a personal note...

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here's an important truth, capitalism created more conspiracy and more people out of poverty, more suffering in the last century alone than any other economic system and tens of thousands of years in our existence. premarket is more efficient of resources and also the economic expression for liberty. premarket do need to be free and there's lots of ways as we just heard in which capitalism is falling short of potential. the alternative is socialism which is failed even to come close to capitalism and economic in human terms the alternative is more freedom, more choice and more open market. the danger is a highly imperfect capitalism can bring resentment and frustration of the unfairness and inequality is producing which tells us we need reform pride or the alternative

is revolution. that seldom ends well. that is it for us, the latest updates follow me on twitter, facebook, and instagram i'll be back on black friday for the retail in america, that is here on the wall street journal at large. thank you for joining us and have a wonderful thanksgiving. >> "barron's roundtable" sponsored by qqq. chris davis on roy davis advisors on bank stocks for growth and why he says they can boost your portfolio. no surprise test those who pick up, the cyber truck of the future of the ido industry? in groups joins us on the panel of whether you should prepare for a bear market in 2020. "barron's roundtable" starts right now. ♪ >> welcome to "barron's roundtable" with the sharpest minds on wall street to get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead.

we begin with the three most important things investors should be thinking about right now. earnings season is almost over and while results were weak there is light at the end of the 2019 tunnel, test the unveiling a new pickup truck with the rollout did not go as planned, can the cyber truck keep tesla electrified in schwab and td ameritrade are close to a deal on a 26 billion-dollar merger and what will that mean for investors preyed on the roundtable, then, caroline and jack. jack i will start with you on earnings season, earnings were down but revenues were up a little bit but in retail it was not wishy-washy it was boom or bust. >> it was retail waccamaw, stocks were popping up and stocks were getting pounded down. there's a real separation we went where everyone was getting out of everything but amazon.com. now people are piling to target, it was a putrid and turned into wall street.

they are gaining market share in categories where weaker chains are getting hurt in closing down. that stock is doing very well. gap is done poorly especially if you consider the preannounceme preannouncement, everybody is fleeing that stock. >> them 7% today and coals as an example, more on sales but the earnings are worried about too much discounting, they don't lock it in nordstrom really surprised me. i was not sure whether this one would be a retail victim but they had a very well received report and people are liking with are seen in the department stores that can make a go of it. >> and a pretty good job of key ration, they've a lot of good stuff. what does this mean for q4 and were partly 2020. >> tdi q4. thank goodness. q3 was the last in down numbers.

i think things get better from here. we will probably see a smaller decline for q4 and return to positive earnings growth next year. wall street says 10% earning growth next year, no way. they're always up to height and expect that number to get cut in half. if you have 5% earning growth next year, stocks compare favorably with other aztec and investors like to see when things are getting better i think is positive for the market. >> can we get multiple expansion or 5% earnings and 5% growth market? >> it depends who you talk to bring some of them are saying will go from 18 times earnings to 19 to 20. it gets iffy because the investor behavior and how much everyone is going to fall in love with the market there's no way to know that for sure but it's possible you could see a little bit. >> eveline musk announceelon mus

truck. >> first elon musk had a much better view than that he said this is the best model and will be a better pickup truck than the ford f1 50 and the porsche 9/11. analysts say it's really weird. also credit suites say not ford and gm are breathing a sigh of relief is a very competitive landscape coming late 2020 when these are released. i think clearly credit suites does not see this as a threat and bullish analysts say the uniqueness could be a good selling point and lead to solid demand. the big question, who will drive it. i don't think the pickup truck driver will want to pull up to the worksite in this but then again -- >> i'm getting ready for a huge midlife crisis and that your vehicle. >> there are a lot of people who

drive pickup trucks that do not need them. i think the big point will this resignation with the metal trapezoid futuristic looking car or with buyers and some analysts say yes with tech enthusiasts with more than the pickup truck driver, that means it's amisha at best which of course can hurt profitability. >> the dealmakers were added this past week, schwab and tv ameritrade may be merging a $5 trillion plus brokerage. what's the follow. >> this is a huge deal. >> at this point we don't know if it'll happen but if it does it is huge. it had to happen, these companies have been watching these come down everywhere and the only way to survive this is to get bigger and the accommodation of tv ameritrade

and swap. no one was predicting this they thought e*trade would get bought out. this is a brilliant move, probably great for schwab as a company and the stock. >> a money manager told me that swab is amazon.com of financial services, the low-cost leader and if it was that before this this would presumably make it more powerful and more regulators will say about the deal if it's happening. >> that's a good question, good chance regulators will look at it and say it's too big. but there's also fidelity and other companies that are also huge. >> the current administration does not have a huge appetite for taking on companies like this. coming up one member of the panel says we could see

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>> a half a century ago by a value investor who took advantage of the market sustained for financial stocks the founder grandson is continuing the family edition of beating the index over the long term with a heavy investment in bank stocks. but the financial crisis the performance has been spotty. chris davis joined me now. over the past three months your favorite financial stocks have really served and led the market and i'm guessing the lot evaluation you think they still are in? >> absolutely we take a generational view of these things but you mention my grandfather and he started investing in banks in the 1940s and you think about the environment and people have gone to the crash, depression and world war, it took a long time for investors to have confidence

that the financial system was resilient and that the environment we see today we don't think it's a play for a year to the next decade we think banks are wonderfully positioned to build well. >> this coincided with the steepening of the yield curve in the right direction so you think it's more than that, potentially long-term play? >> absolutely the combination of factors that have come into place incredible durability, the strongest balance sheets in the last 50 years and they built up the capital ratios, your resiliency, the basic business model the strongest bank has shown gain market share and increasing dominance in the business model and five of the top eight or nine holdings are in the second century they have great durability and the cheapest valuations of any sector. in great profitability and they aren't overturning because interstates normalizing would be an added benefit to earnings,

dividends that should rise every year for the next decade. you will not see the elsewhere. >> banks have been around for a long time but skeptics say could there be issues not cyclical we had john stein on the show last week and he is offering an operation but 1.6% on checking and savings. no fees, meanwhile quicken is originating more origin than wells fargo. i'm wondering is there a better mousetrap than the old legacy banks and is it possible they will be bleeding retail sure. >> this is the way in which regulation works in the bank paper. i think about over my career the disruption facing banks. let's start with the big one money market funds were invented, people say why would i go to a bank i have a money market fund. what else was invented the merger under mortgage-backed security. you don't need to go to a bank

to do with the mortgage, they mortgage-backed security. atm, who need branches, we have atms, the internet, that will be the big disrupter, through all of this what we see, the highest profit and all in banking history. because people value the security, cyber protection and over time there is a lot of scale advantages that come from the so you have to look constantly be aware disruption but it's amazing how over 30 - 40, 50 years banks have absorbed the disrupter sources for the better surface to their existing client. >> what are you avoiding in the market? >> the other side of financials people are free to look at because they remember the great recession and they're worried in unstable, they imagine their risky when in fact they are much safer than they've ever been. at the other side is where people feel safe. if people feel safe they put up the business were rational

places because of looking and roomier. give consumer companies, utilities, these things on average are trading -- the s&p low-volume index, the trading at 20 - 22 times earnings with no revenue growth and i think i looked at the average company in the low index and is increased 30 to 45%. >> one more question, if all the talk in the market and what you look at and not look at your not said a word about the 2020 election, trade war, impeachment, you don't read the newspaper? >> if you take a generational view, what you realize is uncertainty, bad headlines, are constant. look at the last 20 years what we got there. we've gone through the russian

bond default, the emerging market, the tech telecom the collapse in real estate, the financial crisis, the euro crisis, there was two recessions. and yet what has happened, businesses, the underlying business is what creates. they have grown, adopted and become more profitable and more valuable over time. what we know next year will have a lot of bad headlines but if you invest for a decade or two decades you will have every session in times of raising rates falling trying to predict in trade, that's a loser's game. but investing on the idea the you be able to be resilient and go through the periods and build wealth over a decade that's how you maintain equanimity in the headlines. >> over ten years the market is up 450%. thank you very much part coming up our ideas on what you can do right now to improve your portfolio. first jim it's a seat at the table. that is

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>> with many risk factors facing the stock market, ben is feeling a little bearish for 2020. joining the roundtable is chief investment strategist jim paulson. before i get to you i want to go to bed give us your overview for two or three years you're been chronicling how the great tenure might come to an end and so far it is following your script. give us a rundown. >> back in 2018 when people were feeling bearish and on edge, i had an idea that the yield curve would invert into thousand 19 and that would cause a bear market in 2020. one of the reasons i was not worried in 2018 despite the volatility. here we are now and we have the

yield curve and there is the argument about whether the yield curve works or not. when you look at the data you see the economy has slowed and the leading indicator of the economy that has been doing their job in leading us. we seen them continue to weaken and unless they pick up we will see the economy go into recession in the market as a leading indicator as well and it will fall as a habit. >> that is pretty depressing but you have a more optimistic view on things will play out. why is bearish been wrong? >> i respect that a lot but i think a yield curve has been very good historically no doubt about that, is predicted since the 60s every time without a recession. but if there is one indicator that is messed up it could be the monetary indicators which the yield curve is a monetary

indicator and we've messed up monetary molly when negative yields and you wonder how good the indicator will be but mostly, i see a full on policy assaults in the last year given to this economy whether it's a big drop in long-term interest rates around the world or a surge of money supplies and most places in our quantitative easing back in gear whether physical jews being expanded and if this does not work i'm not sure what we will do in the next recession because we what of what we've done in the last year. it takes about a year and it's only been about a year since we started and were starting to see signs of improvement, economic surprise turned up around the world and even the market pmi they came up friday morning went up for the third month of the

row showing manufacture recovery and so far the job in consumer state together. i kinda like the combination of a lot of fear which means risk on asset are being underpriced with a full on policy assaults to prove things. if it does there's a lot of upside for market prices. >> to stats from been stories, he's looking at the atlanta fed predicting for ten of 1% growth which is pretty weak. it points out the number of job openings is coming down, do those were you at all or the other factors trump those numbers customer. >> all that stuff worries me. i would say the atlanta fed number has been down to this level were pretty close at different points in this year end so far by the end of the quarter and jump supplier in the jolt as part of the reason the

rolling over by consumer confidence and other things they cannot go a lot higher, there at such high levels if they stay at those levels it'll be sufficient to see us through so i remain a little more optimistic and 2020. >> do we just get one last hurrah for the economy in the market and then pay the price year down the road and maybe ben is right, order we return to sustainable growth but keep the party going. >> i think that's a good question and one of the things in 2020 will recover but the big story to your point, i don't know if the s&p goes up a lot but what could happen is a major leadership to the stuff that is and what leads men to share is going to be the small caps, emerging markets, international stocks in the defensive sector and lowball investing will underperform and you can have a

5% - 10% upside in s&p but a bigger upside in assets that have not participated. and to ben's point, if we have a better next year we have full employment and rates and inflation come back and that could create problems in the following year. >> thank you very much. i will have you back when you see the first glimmer, maybe ben is right. we want you back on the show. up next, roundtable members give their investment ♪ limu emu & doug hour 36 in the stakeout. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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>> we have been talking about electric cars, tesla has gotten all the love, you spread the love weirdly you make an analogy

to the streaming works, i've never heard that comparison. >> is gotten very complicated to figure out what to watch and where, it's getting into electric cars. everybody had an electric pickup in the crossover vehicle coming, it will be a lot of manufacturers spending up front to make vehicles but i don't think will do a lot of volume. just a highlight in the same way there will be a lot of companies take a beating for a year to on streaming before they reach scale. i think it could get too crowded with new models in the next couple years ahead. my advice on car stock, stay away from car stocks and watch from a state undertake distant. >> usually means say prices. >> i bet you everyone will have to discount to remodels. you might get a great deal on a carpet technology is changing so fast you have to think about when you want to lock in on a car you alone for a long time. >> the tesla truck is only 3999. >> jack was putting in his

deposit. >> i don't know who can buy the low-end model. if you're going for the tesla truck you're going $70000, i don't think the salt a lot of 40000-dollar was. we want you to go into the coming week making her next move. one idea, the cover story. >> bullish on fisa, the company undergoing a big transformation it's getting rid of consumer brands like advil off patent brands which include viagra and can focus on drugs that can develop and by in the blockbuster drugs have the ability to move the price and in terms of prices it is down 10% year to date underperform in they're down, not without risk because that's on fisa making big scientific leaps. >> you like an energy stock conocophillips whether you're bearish or bullish this is cheap and pays a big dividend and it's getting bigger. >> to read mark check out this

week addition barron's.com and don't forget to follow us on twitter at barron's online. that is it for us. weekend. [♪] lou: good evening, everybody. the radical dimms and the 59 days of impeachment inquiry as far aso -- farce that they conducted failed to put forward a plausible pretext to overthrow the president. the president's approval numbers are on the rise despite those 59 days. support for impeachment on the decline, and the democrats are fortunate to have the thanksgiving recess with which to recover and regroup. but those 59 days of absurdist political theater have awakened