s&p. susan, lauren, i tried to hold down the fort for stu. look what we've done for the markets, guys. not bad at all. take all the credit for that. our time is up, but neil cavuto, take it away. neil: thank you, ashley, very, very much we're waiting to hear from new york's governor andrew cuomo. he will outline the latest case there is. a lot of people say owes much of the rally not only happening in new york but the united states as rate of deaths and increase begins to slow. that is not across the board. we'll get reading from iowa. that state's governor about to address the press. iowa is one of eight states who do not have the stay at home provisions. this is boying optimism, that maybe, maybe the worst could be over. that may be premature. they will take anything they can get. signs on the small business

loans, slash grants, becoming available right now, to the tune of close to 35, 40 billion thus farce. conservative estimates. maybe as high as $75 billion by the end of day. that is buoying the s&p 500. the dow is 19% off its bear market low reached a little more than three weeks ago. a similar situation for the s&p 500. now, about 16% or so away from those lows. whether that holds is anyone's guess. but a lot amid talk as well we'll get more stimulus here or relief, whatever you want to call it. that it could rival the price of last and most recent relief package north of $2.2 trillion, hard to say. blake burman has been looking at all of that. blake? reporter: hi, there, neil, hard to say indeed. here is what i am seeing speaking to senior

administration last night, there has not been sizable movement the last couple days next potential steps coming in terms of economic relief. i am told there are some ideas that they are kick around within the white house as of if that does happen, what that might look like though i am told, i do want expectation set here a little bit, it was said to me, quote, this is super plea preliminary. here is what they're kick being around. payroll tax cut. capital gains tax cut, possibility of ending capital gains taxes for as long as two years. giving business as waiver that would clear them of any liability from employees who contract covid-19 while on the job. and potentially introducing a 50 year treasury bond. those are some the ideas i'm told talked about, very preliminary but larry kudlow this morning picked up on the last idea, suggesting that the administration could introduce

essentially what would amount to a covid war bond. listen. >> we're just looking at it. we don't, again, let's see where it leads. again, we have to execute what we've got on the table. it is a massive package give it a few weeks, minimum a month. let's see how effective we are, how efficient we are. let's see if we need more money. we'll seek more money. to that point we'll finance it. i don't think it will be hard to refinance. reporter: so you heard kudlow there, neil, acknowledging that the most important thing at this point is implementing phase three, and it could take, at least trying to figure out next steps, give this a week, maybe even a month beyond that. i'm also told from a senior administration official, neil, at least reminded that the president's direction at this point, at least what he is talking about, infrastructure, deductions potentially entertainment which would help

out the restaurant and entertainment industry, potentially adding more to small businesses. that is sort of what the president has been talking about. while all the ideas are floated within the white house, they're still keeping ice on implementation and a few things that the president mentioned very publicly. neil. neil: blake burman, thank you very much, my friend. we're monitoring the iowa governor kim reynolds is addressing the press. iowa is one of eight states, iowa, nebraska, north dakota, south dakota, nebraska, wyoming, don't have so-called stay at home provisions. a couple of those states recommend it but they do not order it. states like new jersey and new york, for example, they order it. we're monitoring that. very soon we'll hear from governor andrew cuomo of new york. much made of the fact that the number of deaths in new york though still high has become, started to slow down and the governor seizing on that maybe an early sign that this apex,

so-called, you know, high-water mark could be reached a little early. that is the kind of positive signs average folks like to hear, average investors like to hear. but as far as the investment community, today's smart run-up we're seeing in the dow, you know, take this with a grain of salt here, especially when we hear the likes of jamie dimon talking up the possibility of extremely adverse conditions going forward in the economy. financial stress. he went on to talk about he is still expecting a bad, a bad recession, but he is looking at the bigger picture and still confident longer term we'll come through this. i want to get the read on all of that from a fellow who follows all of this very, very closely, fifth third bank chief investment strategist joins us right now. jeff, you get two very different views from the investment bank crowd. jamie dimon who is cautious but

see as severe recession coming. morgan stanley who thinks we might be through or thinks we might be through the worst of it. where are you on this? >> well, we put out a piece two weeks ago called nasty, brutish and short, which is our assessment what we can expect. if you look at the unemployment rate we think the worst is yet to come. in fact there was a poll conducted by "axios" and ipsos that was conducted from march 27th through the 30th t was intended to talk about how many people were working from home, et cetera, but it had a component that suggested in the polling that our unemployment rate is already north of 15%, if this poll is truly reflective of the workforce as it was intended to be. that suggests to us that the worst is still ahead of us. we are going to get an extreme test but we think with the amount of stimulus, both

monetary, particularly fiscal, this downturn will be fairly short-lived but the worst is still in front. ashley: you know, when i look at a lot of the data we get, jeff everyone factored in the awful numbers, the 10 million plus jobs lost that it could climb exponentially, factory activity ground to a halt, retail sales ground to a halt, all of that, one thing interesting to me the market did respond to this slightly better than expected report of the number of deaths in new york. andrew cuomo addressing the press. we'll be going to that in just a second but one of the things that was noted but on sunday we had 594 deaths reported. on saturday, 630. so they're looking at that, both new york officials and apparently the market, general folks, that this might already be and i -- be an improving trend. do you think that will decide

the course how the markets react just how average folks react, they like that, what do you think? >> i think we'll get an immediate reaction people realize there is a peak, a peak in new york occurring now suggests that the national peak will be two weeks, two weeks out. what our concern is, not that we're going into a great depression. we never thought that i think today's market action perhaps reflects a growing consensus that this will be short-lived but it is how cleanly we can come out of this. one of the things that caused us to start having concern over the coronavirus back in february and even a little bit in january was the way it can disrupt the global supply chain. so the u.s. may be ready to come out of this but the supply chain may take some time to recover. not just china of course is ahead of us but think what is going on in europe. all of this i think will make for a little bit of a choppier economic exit. but that doesn't mean that the markets have to be choppy coming

out. markets are of course forward-looking and can start looking out to 2021 earnings, let alone what is going on in the short term. neil: all right, jeff, we shall see. thank you very much. the new york governor andrew cuomo is spelling out those numbers. many were seizing the data even before the governor took to the microphone, the worst-hit state, still the worst-hit state, but not as bad as it was 24 hours ago. the governor. >> some suggest this is a slight pause at the top. some suggest there is a longer pause at the top which is effectively aplateau effect, or again a straight up, straight down precipitous drop which is the peak effect. no one can tell you which will occur. they say any one of the three options, you study other countries you have a combination of the above. we are studying it as we have

used the projection models from day one to determine actually what we do, how do we set policy and program, by following the data. dr. milatros has been working on the numbers, working with the statisticians and the projection models and helping us incorporate that into an operational model. jim, if you want to take a moment and speak about the projection models here, please. >> great, thank you, governor. as the governor said we have been looking at projection models from the beginning to determine the size and scope and severity and the governor has mentioned this over his briefings, we've been working with many organizations, using the data like imperial college, institute for health metrics and evaluation. cornell, mckenzie and others and some of the initial projections that we first saw at the beginning of this was at least 100, up to 110,000 beds

for covid patients alone and the peak would come at the end of april. those were some of the earliest modeling from many organizations that it would be at the end of april around 110,000 beds just for covid patients. there are other models too that we were tracking, one being lower at about 55,000 covid beds but again, peaking at the end of april. we follow now that we have a pretty robust data set to go by for the last several weeks the bottom line there, the purple line is sort of where we are tracking today, which suggests it is a little lower and the question was, what could you do to lower those initial projections from 110,000 and from 55,000. so a lot of the activity was we saw where the statisticians and the folks looking at these types of models said it was going.

so what activities and actions could you take to aggressively lower that overall number? and the answer really was, and what the governor has been doing aggressively enforce and enact social distancing to lower the overall number and this number and the current data suggests that is exactly what's happening and it's not settled yet because we are going day by day and numbers as the governor says has changed a lot. over time, based on what numbers come in, but this could suggest that we are indeed potentially at the apex or beginning to be at the a apex at this moment. like the governor said, there is range of models, seven days, 14 days, 21 days, 30 days. looks like we're towards the earlier side of that time frame based on current projections and modeling we've been looking at. >> thank you, jim. but you also see on these, you

see on this slide -- neil: new york governor's press conference but some good news where you can take it here. what they're essentially saying is the death rate increase has begun to slow. new york, which is leading the country by the way, 4758 deaths reported as of now, that is up from 4159, 24 hours ago. total new york cases jumped about 8,000 to a little north of 130,000. all of this as the u.s. death toll just passed 10,000. we're closing in about 1 1/2 million cases worldwide. the reason why a lot of folks are seizing on that otherwise depressing data is because it is not as depressing. in other words the rate of deaths and growth of cases appears to be slowing. you need a few more days worth, actually a couple of weeks worth of such data to confirm such a trend.

let me get the read with dr. anita radcliffe, board-certified physician. what do you make of it, others are defining it pay cross the country as a slowing trend. is that true? >> right. this means there is light at the end of the tunnel. what we're expecting america to understand epidemiology which is an entire branch medicine dedicated to understanding how germs are spread and how they end and this is very confusing to most people. but what we're seeing here, there are two stages when it comes to getting rid of covid-19. the first will be decrease in number of new cases. that is what we think we're seeing a mountaintop or apex and we can start seeing the horizon or the pastures below but i want to caution also that we heard the surgeon general also state, brace yourself, we may see the pearl harbor or the 9/11, where there will be number of increase in deaths. that is because of number of hospitalizations, people who

need breathing machines and people dying that lags behind. that has to do with the fact that after you get infected it can take two to 14 days for symptoms to start showing. even though number of new cases start decreasing that is also signaled in new york it, will be sometime before we do see the number of new deaths or number of deaths decreasing as well too. neil: as a doctor, doctor, are you comfortable with state has might dial back some of their mitigating, you know, requirements, you know, 42 states that have such requirements, stay at home, what have you, based on apex hitting its high and going down a little bit? what do you think of that? >> absolutely not. we're seeing what is happening in new york but that can happen in any of the other states if we do not take these precautions. for the next 30 days everyone should be socially distancing. everybody should maintain hand

hygiene. we need to be cautious of this. we could have an outbreak in any of these places and mitigation and social distancing do work. just look at washington state. they just returned back about 400 ventilators to the national stockpile that can be used in other areas because they, very early stages started installing, instilling these types of practices. so they're having a decrease in it. we're looking what happens when you do impose harsh, very strict rules in terms of social distancing, whether it is closing down businesses, decreasing gatherings. they work and so we don't want to make that mistake, hey, they're doing great over here but new york had to go through a lot. they suffered significantly. there is no reason for us to repeat this in other areas. neil: so even in new york's case would you argue that if they still had deaths but a fraction what they had at their height, by the end of the month when the president and others expressed a goal, the hope, maybe, to sort

of unwind from these shelter at home provisions, that that would be okay? because we've come down from our highs or the fact that you're still registering deaths, new ones every day, is that enough to pause? what would you do? >> well time will tell. we need to see where we are. if these measures are continued we are going to see progress but we don't want to say today, hey, the gains today, definitely in 30 days we can just stop. we need to address what the reality on the ground is. maybe new york will be different, for example, than alabama. we do need to wait to see. neil: all right, doctor, thank you very, very much. it is promise on the virus front making a difference with these markets with the dow up at session highs here, better than 1140 points. it wipes out all the doom and gloom numbers you heard about. janet yellen, former federal reserve chair, she envisions

second quarter gdp declining at better than 30% clip. right now we're looking at a 12 to 13% hit. we'll be looking at substantial job losses. citigroup is saying that global earnings may fall, still, still as much as 50% and stocks could go along with them. so that is sort of a, but, anomaly that confuse as lot of folks because they don't know really where to park their bets. we also told you about jamie dimon who sees a recession coming but the folks at morgan stanley said we've been you there the worst of it. we put it all out there, let you digest it, see what you come up it. interest rates backing up little bit, stocks are looking really, really good, the first sign of the worst of it, if some of these embattled states could be turning around, i stress could be. stay with us. ♪. (music)

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♪ neil: i told you we've been monitoring governor andrew cuomo in new york with remarks at the press conference. he would now extend social distancing measures already in effect? the state. that is schools non-essential businesses. sheltering at home, until at least april 29th. that is a wednesday. so this is debate the apex, as things stand now, he is comfortable saying that this will continue until at least april 29th, which kind of jibes what are the national numbers and guidance we're getting i think from the white house until april 30th, next day. but a lot of people are thinking by end of this month, keep getting better than expected numbers, both on number of new cases and number of deaths reported. even though you might still have them increasing f they're not increasing nearly the rate they were, that might be good enough for a green light for people to go back to work, or at least

leave their homes to dial that back. a lot of people focus on that the fact that the governor address the it, it is a telling reminder, a lot of people are thinking about that. we're montorring the fact that we had over 1000 cases right now in the united states with a lot of people wondering are we slowing change what is the for 42 states in this country. 92% of the american people staying at home. what would change that? we'll get a read on that shortly. this is worldwide phenomenon told you many, many times. number of new cases reported in europe for example, still moves forward every day. in italy some improvement on the death front. not enough to make you think they're past the problem. then the situation in britain where you had queen elizabeth, one of rare occasions this, is

the third or fourth time since she was ruling the country as sovereign head of state for people to hang on. we see boris johnson, the prime minister, out of abundance of caution had to check himself into a hospital. he is being monitored very closely. he has had the virus and testified positive for it for better part of 10 days right now general. -- benjamin haul with latest. benjamin. reporter: we had a speech by queen elizabeth calling for national unity and hope. just two hours later boris johnson was admitted to hospital because he couldn't shake symptoms of coronavirus he had for 10 days. downing street were very keen to say these were for precautionary tests only but they have been very vague what he is going through in the hospital but he is it still there. he tweeted earlier from his hospital bed, he tweeted last

night on the advice of my doctor i went into hospital for some routine tests as i'm still experiencing coronavirus symptoms. i'm in god spirits and keeping in touch with my team as we work together to fight the virus and keep everyone safe. as you say that news came couple hours after queen elizabeth gave the rare address, the fourth time she had done so in time of crisis. speaking from windsor castle. the 93-year-old drew on her own wartime experiences. she promised the nation would rise to the challenge. >> i hope in the years to come everyone will be able to take pride in how they responded to this challenge and those who come after us will say that britains of this generation were as long as any. that the attributes of self-discipline, quiet, good humored resolve and fellow feeling still characterize this country. reporter: it is quite a difficult time in the uk right now. there is a lockdown. it is said to be approaching the peak of its pandemic.

almost 350,000 are infected. around 5000 dead. that figure expected to rise by almost 1000 a day for the next few days. elsewhere in europe the virus seems to be slowing in some of the hardest hit countries. deaths and infections are down in italy and spain reported lowest death toll in 15 days. bittersweet news. we're getting positive stories out of asia italy. you seem to get more good news than we were getting at least a week ago. neil? neil: indeed we are. benjamin, thank you very much. that is one of the reasons why you saw the european markets up and britain's included and our markets and asia moving up. in china they're urging residents to go back to work all but lifting the lockdown at its height affected 65 million chinese citizens. we'll give you an update on all

of that in just a second. to a analytics co-founder and president, follows interesting area about the hospital bed shortage you hear so much about. one of the things i founder very interesting is that they are now, not only in new york trying to use the javits center to help with coronavirus patients but any other retrofitted facility including tents in central park and elsewhere. is that going to be enough though? >> well i mean they're finding space everywhere they possibly can. in certain locations it will be and in others we'll have to struggle very, very hard to find enough beds to host all the potential patients coming from this. if you look at new york city alone, right, if we focus only on the projected icu beds, our model actually showed that as of today we would hit the peak utilization for, or we would have as many cases in the icu

that the, there are icu beds in all of the state of new york and that is 4300. as a matter of fact, that hit yesterday, as you mentioned earlier. so, we projected that there is going to be 10,000 cases. if you take historical utilization of icu beds in new york city, that is about 3,000 icu beds and these are patients you can't move. you can't take them out of the icu. you can't put them anywhere else. they need to stay there. it really looks like we'll look for approximately8700 icu beds in new york state alone and that is a lot of beds. neil: yeah, just thinking of the case of the javits sent i i -- center maybe, they could retrofit for few more. the case of the usns comfort, that ship was supposed to take in non-coronavirus patients to ease the traffic that other

patients were giving them, now is open to, you know, coronavirus patients. >> right. neil: even with all of that you are going to need more, right? >> i mean hospitals and health systems are being really creative. there is tents being deployed all across the city and across the state. they are going to house a significant number of patients. each hospital in the health system is looking at all of their existing clinical space that is not currently dedicated to icu patients to see if they can make them icu capable. they're taking historically non-clinical space and converting that into clinical space to help meet the need for patients. they're reoperating old hospitals that have been closed. yeah, sports arenas, convention centers, even sports tents on fields are getting made into

beds. neil: right. so who gets those beds? in other words, it is not just enough you've been diagnosed with the virus. >> right. neil: you have to be in pretty bad way, right? >> right, yes, sir. there is actually four categories, right? there is asymptomatic patients. there are the ones that have only mild symptoms which actually are the significant portion of the overall cases. and about 20% are severe and critical, right? and realistically we're trying to keep the severe cases in med surge equivalent beds because they need support from some type of oxygen, whether that's a nasal or a mask and in the critical case, the ones that really need a lot of support, they are the ones that will take the icu beds themselves and potentially need the use of ventilator to keep them alive. neil: thank you very, very much.

i learned a lot there. i appreciate it. all right, as he was talking here, we still have the dow up appreciably because the demand for beds notwithstanding, if the demand begins to start slowing cases start slowing, rate of increases start slowing, the markets seize on that, any bit of good news. face it, when you get an increase in cases it is scary news, they are not alarmingly high as they were, they are very, very high. they're breathing a sigh of relief in the empire state simply because of the latest 24 hour period it is 572 deaths, down a little more than 600. that is still 572 more deaths but the hope is again that things ease and not only for those directly affected by the virus, for those whose fortunes depend on seeing improvement on the virus front. no one knows more than that airline business who sees booking and business collapse

90%. flights are curtailing in operation to soften demand. jeff flock is latest on all that. reporter: is airports of future will look like this? this is the southwest check-in in at midway airport in chicago. as you can see not a whole lot of people checking in as mike gives you a panoramic view here. i flew in here last night from philadelphia and, take a look. i shot some pictures because you know, we don't get to see, everybody used to fly all the time. most people don't get to see what airports look like now. business is closed. talk about people that rely on this economy, all of the businesses almost all closed within side the airport. just a very, very difficult situation. the airports are sized for a large number of flights and most of the gates are empty. take a look at my flight. we have pictures there i got the last seat on, the last person on, plenty of seats.

there were eight people on the flight when we flew from philadelphia to chicago last night. and i'll tell you, it is no, this is, this has hurt all of the airlines. take a look. we put the numbers up. united says it is losing 100 million a day. delta says it is burning through $60 million of cash a day. american announced its summer shutdowns, 56% to europe. jetblue will have to cut pay to employees fairly soon. if you look at the board here pat southwest, at midway, 75% of the flights canceled. a couple of new york flights are still going but today united announced a whole bunch of cuts to new york. nobody wants to go to new york. maybe people want to get out of new york but, not pretty anywhere, neil. neil: you know, jeff, i wonder, i know it is just a mugs game here, even when all of this lifts i cannot imagine an

immediate snapback of enthusiasm for cruises for one thing and for that matter for taking long haul flights. so i'm wondering the hope for v-shaped, l-shaped, whatever you want to call it, u-shaped comeback here i don't know if that will materialize at least right away? reporter: we have gotten used to working from home, many of us. i'm not one of them. we've done all the zoom meetings. we proved we can work a lot from home. maybe we don't need to fly a lot of places and make in person meetings. of course the panic, fear of leisure flights, do you really want to take one -- land on a positive note, you can go round-trip new york to l.a., round-trip in june, if you book it now, on spirit airlines for $91. take a flyer. pardon the pun. neil: wow. yeah. how quickly people respond to tough like that anyone's guess.

great reporting through this incredible crisis. jeff flock in middle of all of that. a lot is not going on. that is a concern to jeff's point. if that plays out in airport after airport, not just in this country by the way this, is a worldwide phenomenon, we have some problems. to put global picture in perspective, you know what is happening in italy they were breathing a sigh of relief because the reported new cases and deaths ha not reversed but begun to slow. let's get the latest. lenore hawkins joins us from skype. she has been monitoring it closely from the belly of the beast so to speak. lenore, i wonder when you look at this, the message italy, and message from germany, they're seeing unwinding some lockdown provisions they think they're getting through the worst of it. is that true? >> it definitely looks that way. italy has seen fairly consistent decline in net new cases since

march 21st. spain is now starting to see a bit of a roll over as well. that being said the government has done anything but lighten up. they continue to tighten, eastern last weekend they tightened the quarantine rules on us a bit more. they still want to see, that contagion, they want it come down will below zero before they even talking about opening up the economy at all. neil: so, when you look at that, lenore, i'm wondering if the markets we all like a strong up day on the dow as we seem to have, it is being 19%, 20% from their market lows reached a little more than a few weeks ago, ditto s&p five hundred is that getting ahead of itself? we're down mightily from touching dow 30,000 in mid-february. where are you on this? overreaction, under reaction, about right reaction, what?

>> i think it is an overreaction. i think it is a bit over optimistic right now. the u.s. has not yet seen i suspect the worst of it. and that is assuming that the u.s. goes through similar curve that we experienced in italy, that experienced in spain, particularly given that the u.s. saw such a massive spike in new york, that indicates that it would be at least as bad as what we saw in italy. so i think, and to what the surgeon general said over the weekend, it is probably going to get a lot uglier before it gets better. that will take a big emotional toll. we're not also considering what it will take to open up. clearly we can't live in the lockdown situation. that is what italy is facing right now. we're in the fifth week of it, people are starting to lose their minds, who wants to be home for this long? what business can survive this? we need to move how we will open it. that is very little discussion here or in the u.s. as just how that will happen.

what that requires, anti-body tests widespread, who got it or had it and are safe and widespreading for the testing the virus people who feel asymptomatic or coming down with a cold so we can get back to work so quickly can quarantine people off. neil: well-said. lenore, thank you very much. lenore hawkins monitors this very, very closely. we should remind you one of the things coming up, hear more about, rapid rise in reported cases, doesn't mean there are all new, new cases diagnosed cases readily made with the quick confirmmation test they have, some in as little as five or ten minutes, they can find out if you have the virus or anti-bodies that indicate the presence of the virus. i with will see dramatic increase faster this gets out across the country, to be able to ascertain potentially how

many more millions of americans have this virus. we do know anyone who thinks they will immediately suspend state at home provisions the message from new york governor, who set that april 29th goal, nevertheless, meantime if you even think about violating distancing rules, penalties and fines will increase from at least $500 to $1000. what technically violates that, if you're walking out on the street with 8, nine, 10 of your friend, he didn't really delineate. what he is saying much like the new jersey governor, if you tempt us, we will fine you. after this.

♪. neil: all right, iowa has just done something that, well, at this point now you can

technically say 42 states have done, not a formal order, stay-at-home order but a strong suggestion. governor kim reynolds continues to talk to the press about taking measures to keep businesses closed if she could through april 30th to fight the spread of the virus. she went on to say that would include malls, bowling alleys, zoos, campgrounds, playgrounds, libraries. this order issued monday does not extend to everybody. it is just a very strong recommendation of, that now extend to arcades, amusement parks, racetracks, tobacco and vaping stores, campgrounds, toy, gaming, instrument and movie stores. apparently they're delineating this is not a blanket order for everybody in the state but as darn close as you can get. if you take at face value iowa has gone this route, at least seven states now do not have the so-called stay at home provisions. we'll update you on that.

janna caldwell with us right now. gee -- gianno, the whole nation seems to be going this route and i'm wondering would there be problems for seven or so states with no orders in effect that it will come back to bite them what do you think? >> you know what? one of the things i really appreciate president trump did, gave the states authority to make those kind of decisions. not every state we is the same as we all know. some industries are thriving in the midst of all that is going on. that should be something that is done locally you about there certainly absolutely should be guidelines when it comes to crowding and how many people you're allowed to be with. should you be outside at all? there is the potential, propensity for a lot of people to continue to be affected. as you know, there is, as you know there has been quite a few people who haven't been tested. there has been what they call a bottleneck of testing where

people haven't been able to get a test. they called their doctors. they're trying to get tested, no one really knows. but meanwhile they may have symptoms. there is so much more going on what we have numbers to discuss on. neil: you know, how do you feel about the return of eventually to work, a return to normalcy or closer to normalcy? what would be. you're a wrung guy, what would be catalyst for you. in other words if you heard a apex region a high point, still tragically having death but way down to what they were, would that be good enough to return to our old lives? >> i think a lot of people want to return right now t has been three, four weeks, since we really been impacted and things are shut down. people are kind of going crazy with it. people want to be safe and are

health-conscious but at the same time, families are losing their entire fortunes. just in 2016 you saw how much wealth was created in our economy, and completely wiped out for the most part for so many different people. with the fact that knowing so many businesses are not going to come back, people are willing to do whatever necessary to come back to take necessary precautions. one of the reasons why president trump was so so pushing narrative getting back into the swing of things so the economy doesn't really take a deep nosedive. neil: always good catching up with you under these circumstance. thank you my friend. best-selling author, gianno caldwell. no matter how you feel now is the time to think about this, that will be the debate, whether slowing in the rate of new cases is enough to slow down the stay at home provisions that

essentially, this the avenue of americas right outside of fox news offices a ghost town. they want to end that sort of thing to get the country back. they don't want to repeat with the spanish flu of 1918, some cities maintained strong measures like st. louis, others did not, like philadelphia. cases skyrocketed there. did not in st. louis. they do not want to repeat what happened in that pandemic more than a century ago. follow with all those that benefited from a weird way with all the cocooning we've been doing, of course zoom, famous for videoconferences, video calls and all of that they have had controversies along the way. jackie deangelis has all of that and a very, very apologetic ceo. reporter: this stock has been a darling during the coronavirus pandemic but today a sharp drop and all because of what is being

called zoom bombing, it sounds funny but really not. it is a major security problem where hackers are getting into zoom conferences. in some cases they're posting profanity and pornography up there trying to conduct meetings. the ceo said, i really did mess up. it sent out a letter explaining to users how it is making security features to all the company's high-end business and users for all. password pretext shun, sounds very simple, right? zoom's usership skyrocketed t was 10 million at end of last year. 200 million. now as a result of this pandemic and everything is happening on there from work conferences to mobile learning, exercise class, zoom parties where people hang out as they're practicing social distancing but with respect to the school learning, the new york city school

superintendent sent out a letter banning use of zoom because of privacy issues and for all school activities as soon as possible. it will be hard for the company to restore the reputation after this. it is definitely trying to try. one final bruise to think about, neil, when it comes to this company, sloom is -- zoom is facing questions after off leading $36 million of stock as it faces questions about the breaches. did they know about all the issues before they sold the stock. he made $6 billion. made 10 1/2 billion on january 14th. 12 1/2 million on february 12. 15 1/2 million on march. according to sec filings. other officers sold stock. but you could say the stock has gone up so much since the april 19th ipo price in the 30, 35-dollar range. it is trading at 115 right now. back to you. neil: jackie, thank you very,

very much. let's go to charlie gasparino right now. he has been looking at sort of surgically going back, who knew what and when, appreciated gravity what was to come and those by and large did not. which is most folks. charlie what do you have? >> make two points what i'm hearing in the great segments before. number one italy, i should tell you i have family members there my father-in-law is it tally, it is the lockdown of all lockdowns. it is nothing compared to what we have here. you can't leave your house, if you do, cops stop you on the streets. if they're getting it under control, they're getting it under control because of strict quarantines going on there. tell you what is going on in new york city hospitals. my brother as you know runs the icu at brooklyn hospital, there may be a leveling off, maybe, but it is from such a high level it's hard to essentially determine whether that's, you know, that's the peak. so just be clear here. this is, we still probably have

more to go here and i should point out that morgan stanley came out and thinks with some research report says the peak in new york city will be over the next two weeks which kind of falls in line what people are saying but the social distancing, but issues that could impact the economy will go on until june. anyway, morgan stanley, might want to believe them or not -- neil: charlie, say that again. jumping on you, charlie, can you hear me? that was interesting, sorry to jump on that. issues we tend to think will last to end of this month, they seem to think will go into june? >> morgan stanley's biotech group came out with some research this morning. i was given it by a source at morgan stanley. two things. number one, they think the peak in new york city cases, a lot of people worry about new york city because there is a lot of cases here and worrying about spreading outside, the peak in new york city is about two weeks away. i think that is a pretty rational way based on what i know from my brother's personal

experience inside the icu at brooklyn hospital. they believe the social distancing, all the stuff that will impact the economy nationwide is not going to end until june. so we're talking about this stuff, you know being prolonged. now you can believe morgan stanley or not. the wall street firms as i, as i was been reporting over the past weekend are doing a little bit of soul-searching right now, neil, how they missed this. and what was interesting from what i understand, and i'm getting this from people close to the big firms, people close to blackrock, blackrock as you know is the biggest money management firm out there, all their risk models are and these firms employ tremendous risk models, the same sort of risk models that helped some of them prepare for the 2008 crisis, all their risk models now, back in february showed that the virus itself was going to be contained to china, that it was not going to really go out to europe and to the u.s. they clearly did not arrange

their portfolios to protect against that. obviously, there were some people, some money managers, mostly hedge fund that betted against the markets, that started shorting airline stocks and carnival cruise and you name it but the big money management firms, the ones that are supposed to be tracking this missed this big time. now how they missed it, they don't know. what they're saying now essentially, neil, they're saying cautious optimism going forward. markets got beat up. there is are a lot of good values out there. take it for what it is worth, these guys were flashing in february, their risk models were flashing this ain't that bad when it did become very good. why that happened, listen i can tell you during the financial crisis no one, not a lot of people predicted a nationwide housing crisis. a few people did, not a lot. risk models are put out by i guess, they're computer programs but there are humans that put together those programs and

humans make mistakes and right now these risk models are showing some cautious optimism. maybe buying on the dip certain places. but again, be careful out there. and you know, the most, the best risk model i know is at brooklyn hospital. he is saying it is still a war zone. back to you. neil: he is amazing, as are you young man. thank you very much. charlie gasparino to that point there, not really knowing what the end game or the light at the end of tunnel is. world health organization says coronavirus can spread one to seven days before symptoms even start. it is hard to get a gauge on cases. furthermore death tolls topped 10,000 in the united states, third highest in the world. all across the world about 1.3 million cases, more than 70,000 deaths. stay with us. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear,

there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. witpeople at higher riskng, must take extra precautions. you are at higher risk if you are over 65, or if you have an underlying medical condition. please visit coronavirus.gov for more information.

neil: think about it. all the stimulus in the world, all the central bank intervention to propel the markets to calm them down, none of that did as much to buoy investors' sentiment here as much as improving news on the virus front itself. i say improving in quotation marks, because the deaths and cases are still increasing, they're not increasing as much or in the case of just deaths

reported in this country, below what we thought they would be a little more than 24 hours ago, in some states' cases actually below where they actually were 24 hours ago. good enough for some to say that the growth rate is slowing, the apex is coming sooner rather than later. that was the way governor cuomo characterized it a few minutes ago at his press session. but again, that has not stopped congress from trying to help this situation move forward to deal with what happens if and when we get back to work. eventually we will. it's how soon we get back. they are planning a lot of goodies in what could be a fourth stimulus relief measure, whatever you want to call it. edward lawrence here to spell it all out. what are we hearing? reporter: we heard a lot about the fourth stimulus, people talking about maybe capital gains issues, helping out hospitals directly, maybe states, more help with them directly. the administration is saying they want to get phase three

first, see how phase three goes through before they get into any phase four. in fact, there are some small hiccups in the small business loan program. so the big banks are pushing back against this going forward. they are concerned about fraudulent loans, so they are taking a little more time related to this. the applications are coming in but big banks like bank of america say they have 177 applications from small businesses worth $33 billion. they are just going through their process a little more slowly to actually pass them through the small business administration. wells fargo stopped taking applications because the company reached the limit they wanted to in order to give out the amount of money they were going to give out through this program. jpmorgan chase is working through their internal process. it's taking a little bit longer. here's how the money actually breaks down, what's actually been given out. according to the small business association, 129,000 loans have been processed, $37 billion has been given out.

they estimate that 3.4 million jobs have been saved. that number may be a little inflated but that's the total number of employees covered under these loans. not everybody would be laid off. you have heard about proposals for the next round, like the capital gains relief but floating possible war bonds to help pay. right now the administration wants to get phase three right first. >> the massive package, a few weeks minimum, a month, let's see how effective and efficient we are and let's see if we need more money. reporter: the federal reserve is also acting today. they saw the resistance we are seeing from the big banks. community banks have really led the way on giving out these small business loans so the federal reserve does some accounting work and temporarily reduced basically on paper the amount of money that the community banks need for reserves. that basically frees up more

money to be lent out by those community banks. back to you. neil: edward lawrence, thank you very much, my friend. around this time we always monitor what the world health organization has to say, sort of a really high in the sky view of this globally, what's going on. one thing that intrigued me, i'm no doctor, but it does make you wonder about what are the real number of cases. world health organization officials are saying the virus can spread in asymptomatic patients about one to three days, as much as three days before we actually see symptoms starting. quoting here, it's very important to note that even if you are asymptomatic you still have to transmit through droplets. again, this concern that you are contagious to be around and you don't even know it. she said a lot of these models don't take that into account. this is the doctor from the team that's looking at this. it's a phenomenon that makes sort of guessing where we stand on virus cases reported versus

what might really be out there very problematic and gets back again to what is the right time to say we are turning the corner or the apex, so much you have heard. florida senator rick scott on the phone with us now. senator, it does call into question if the world health organization is right and the doctors and experts with whom i've been chatting are right, there's simply no way of knowing whether these trends are real, whether this apex, whatever you want to call it, is real. how much time do you think we need before we can safely conclude all right, we could loosen up these sheltering provisions that are in effect in some 42 states? >> first, i think the world health organization has lost all their credibility. they became a parrot for communist china. what i'm optimistic about is american doctors and european doctors are sharing a lot of information and i think that's where -- i think that's where good things will happen here.

i think we are still way behind in testing. the testing to find if you are positive and given now the antibody testing, we have to get both those things done. where i'm optimistic is i really believe in american doctors and european doctors, they are going to figure this out and that's going to be the game changer. neil: so whatever you think about the world health organization, and whether they were hiding information on behalf of china or just oblivious, what they are saying about the three days or more for symptoms to start to appear, does that worry you for florida, for other states? >> well, here's the way i look at it. we've got to figure out, if we are going to get this economy going again, we have to do a few things. we have to figure out who's positive and they have to be quarantined. then we have to figure out who actually has already had it, they have the antibodies so they don't have any risk and clearly can go back to work. then we also need to figure out

what are going to be the standards of opening up businesses. what will be the standard for how airports operate and airlines operate in the future. what's going to make you feel comfortable to go to a restaurant again. what should we be expecting if you go to work at a factory. we need to start having those conversations and i think we are going to figure this out quickly. i don't know how many more weeks that's going to be. i hope we are getting close to the top and we don't tax our hospital system too much. but i'm optimistic because everybody is on board in trying to do things. neil: so senator, do we need, i think chuck schumer started this but they bounced it around washington, this idea of a coronavirus czar or someone to oversee this? there are others who say too many chiefs, not enough indians. i don't know where you stand. what do you think of that? >> i think we have enough people in the federal government. i think the key on all these

things, i was a governor for eight years and ran a large company beforehand. you've got to get the best talent you have and put them together. that's what the president is trying to do with his task force. i think you can see it with some of the good things that are happening. there's still a lot to do. there's still a lot more information we all need to come out of the federal government and our state and local governments but i believe everybody is working together to try to get things done now. neil: so when you hear that the department of homeland security, the cdc right now are restricting cruise ship passengers and crew arriving in the united states from boarding domestic airline flights, what do you think of that? is this adding to the concern or is it justified? >> i think the industry and government have got to figure out how to stop the spread of this. i think it's probably two weeks ago now, i thought we should shut down domestic and international flights.

that way, we could figure out, let new york figure out how to deal with the issue they have there instead of continuously spreading this around the country. the cruise industry has got to figure out, i met with them, oh, probably now a month ago with the vice president. they have to figure out if they are going to do cruises, how are you going to make it safe for the people that work there, the people that come on and how do you not overload the health care system if you do have an outbreak on one of your ships. neil: that's a good point. very good point. senator, thank you for taking the time. we do appreciate it. all right. let's explore just a little further right here, how this is going to affect business here. given the ongoing slowdown and what's happening, things could reverse and the free-fall we have been seeing on the notion the russians and saudis are going to work together to cut supply maybe by upwards of 10

million, maybe as many as 15 million barrels a day. it's not doing the trick today on concerns they haven't struck a deal just yet. danielle dimartino booth joins us, lauren simonetti as well. danielle, let me begin with you and this notion that some sort of agreement between these two countries is going to cut back on supplies to the extent it will reverse what has been a free-fall in prices. i'm beginning to wonder with much of the world in a recession, some parts maybe headed toward a depression, whether even that is going to reverse oil fortunes. what do you think? >> you are bringing up a very good point and that is there is massive offsetting factor of the usage and demand for oil. i think that that is one of the reasons, if you are talking about cruise ships and airlines and people not driving and staying in, i think that's one of the reasons that the texas railroad commissioner has become involved and he's going to be attending the meetings. these are kind of unprecedented things. norway today has come out and said it may participate as an

observer. the level of potential global coordination that is being conceived right now as possible would really be something that would shift the history books for all time, if you could possibly get something but the fact individual states, the state of oklahoma has also been in talks but the fact that individual states are participating in this shows you the magnitude of the hit that low oil prices are having across the globe right now. neil: lauren, if you think about it, the boon for consumers, cheap gas, i think 26 states at last count have gas under $2 a gallon, it's not as if people are leaving their homes to take advantage of that. it's one of those situations much like low interest rates, where consumers aren't pouncing on that. you know? >> yeah, because where are you going to go? most things are closed right now.

it's funny how the administration touted low gas prices as the biggest tax cut for american businesses and consumers, and that's the case to a certain extent. now the issue is, and this is what you should be invested in, where you can find places to store all of this global oil. they are looking at crazy places in malta and the caribbean and morocco right now and storage prices have tripled in some cases. so that's, if you will, a fear tactic that the administration and opec can use as they try to get russia and saudi arabia to agree to cut production is hey, you kind of have to because we have nowhere to put the oil because nobody is using it, no matter how cheap gas prices are. neil: yeah. it's one of those weird gifts that people aren't taking advantage of. danielle, i had been watching the shorter end of the yield curve, not to get too wonky here, but the one-month bill is

very close to teasing being negative again. the three-month right now, over that. but i'm wondering if we just bounce around this whole thing, record low interest rates and on the shorter end, teetering between record low and zero and negative. i'm wondering if that's a bounce around that you follow because some of the other rates like the ten-year now is back up a little. i say back up, to about .7%, whathave you. but what do you make of what's going on in the market right now with these rates on the shorter end, the longer end? >> well, whether you are a corporation who has been pulling down your credit line or whether you are a household who is hunkering down and putting more money in savings, if you have that ability, than you otherwise would. we have seen the growth in money stock in this country go through the roof. these are unprecedented levels of growth that we are seeing in money right now and that means money market funds that would normally be able to go into the treasury bill market because they are mandated to be in

risk-free assets, they can't go buy a junk bond, for example, these are truly liquid assets, they have been overwhelmed with the amount of inflows with people looking for safety, some place to put their cash, and that's why you have seen this dynamic where you have actually had money market funds going to the federal reserve and putting money with the federal reserve, working against the fed easing because they have to find some place to get yield that is positive. they cannot invest in negative yielding short-term instruments but again, this is going to the mattresses, so to speak. the italian in me is coming out like charlie gasparino. but americans are putting away a lot of cash, corporations are doing the same thing. you know what i mean. neil: i know what you mean. i certainly know what you mean. lauren, on a personal level, you talk to a lot of young mothers and fathers and all. we are told that if we hit an apex, in other words, the rate of growth slows, people could

feel comfortable returning to work eventually, getting out of their homes. would you personally, the people you talk to, feel that way or do they need to see something more? >> the biggest question among parents right now is not when will this school year restart, but is summer camp going to actually happen. because it's tough being at home with kids and working from home, and home schooling and we think, as in the regular people i talk to and also some official statements i have heard here and there, that this is going to last a little bit longer and maybe camp can reopen for the final month of summer, back to normal in quotes, more social distancing normal, getting back to work and school in the early fall. neil: you know, the reason i raise the question is i think it cuts to the core about getting back to work, whether people feel comfortable. i don't know if they will certainly charge to cruise ships

and planes and go on foreign trips. at least not right away. this v or u-shaped recovery many envision, i don't. i'm not trying to be a half empty glass guy here but i still see it coming back. i don't think the timetable is realistic. what do you think? >> look, i have to agree with you. i have not one, not two, but three deposits in for summer camp and i'm thinking that the summer camps are going to be in the backyard. it's very stressful for parents. not in a million years would you ever set foot on a cruise ship right now until they figure out how to make them not be floating infirmaries. look, for the average working american, even if you are lucky enough to be working at home and maintaining some semblance of regular income, doing it with children climbing the walls, dallas just shut down through may 20th, it's a completely different dynamic. we are really hoping for summer camp.

neil: yeah. i hear you. it's even worse, ladies, when the kids turn on you and like teenagers, dad, it looks like now's a good time to head back. we'll see. thank you both very, very much. good human perspective on this. much appreciated here. this is going to be something we will follow with a lot of experts here, if you get the clearance or apex or ceiling that's coming down, what is the catalyst at which you and your family, maybe your boss and everyone else, says all right, it's time to go back? after this.

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neil: forget about when we get back to work. when do we get back to play? everything with baseball delayed, football potentially delayed, now the british open has been pushed back. we don't know when. the first time that's happened since world war ii. the olympics. you know all that stuff. the president meeting today with sports figures, commissioners, talking about ways that maybe, maybe we can get folks back into those stands even though they might be nervous the first time they get back there. grady trimble has been following it. grady?

reporter: this was supposed to be a big week in sports. the masters was set to begin this week. now that's pushed back, with a new target date of november 9th. nhl playoffs were going to start this week and the ncaa basketball championship game was set to be played tonight. this year it seems like everyone's brackets are busted. it's slim pickings if you like live sports on tv. if you like wrestling, you could have watched wrestlemania, wwe hosted that this weekend. it was supposed to be planned for this weekend. one thing they weren't expecting, though, was for no fans to be in attendance. that went off without any issues. nascar and indy car drivers are now competing in i-racing, essentially a video game version of their sport. they sit there with a steering wheel in front of them but instead of controlling their cars, they are controlling their video games car. and the nfl is now the only league with any hope of starting on time. the president hoping it will

start as planned in september. it's now talking about a virtual draft later this month and potentially even a virtual offseason with teams reportedly sending tablets to their players to study up on plays and perhaps look at some workouts as well. lastly, the nba is reportedly in talks with espn to televise a game of horse. so that is what it has all come to right now. neil? neil: that looks like a bit of a stretch there. thank you very, very much. great report as always. we don't have the movie industry. you know about restaurants. nou about spor you know about sports. you know about all the things that have been put off or canceled. think of all the people who are supposed to get married. in the april to july period, if you had a wedding scheduled, chances are you canceled. 96% of couples who were to get married in april right through july have postponed. i guess that is not too shocking

but think about the fallout on the wedding industry, wedding planning industry, all the people who are attached to that. the ceo of a wedding planning website was kind of to join us now. tim, do you expect those weddings to be just delayed or now business that is gone forever? >> well, thanks for having me on the show. we absolutely think and we know based on all of our surveys that these weddings are actually postponed and just being rescheduled at this moment. we serve over 15 different countries with wedding marketplaces in italy, spain, france and here with wedding knot in the u.s. we talked the thousands of couples in the past few weeks and have the data to show that right now people are just postponing and rescheduling. neil: you are trying to help the industry. you have the vendor assistance program. there are a lot of elements to it. a lot of them might not be

around when these couples decide or set a date that they think will be safe, right? >> yeah, well, importantly, the vendor assistance program is really designed for the right now. the way the wedding industry typically works is the engaged couples book their wedding vendors and the wedding vendors take deposits and payment. clearly, all of that liquidity and cash flow is going to get pushed out into the fall or winter right now, and our vendor assistance program is designed to help support our paying advertisers during that time. so we have had a $10 million financial assistance program that we announced last week, but in addition to that, it's also a covid resource center for anyone in the wedding industry that's really trying to learn more about the knot worldwide and also, the u.s. government can support them in this time.

neil: it's still early in the process. we will see what happens. thank you very, very much. as he was speaking, take a look at the corner of your screen. the dow is up 1191 points. so it's a lot of those couples planning to get married, invested in the market, hoping that was going to give them scratch for the big day, they have a little more of it today. stay with us.

neil: all right. you hear a lot about apex, rounding the bend, the curve, the arc, whatever you want to call it. in china they moved fast enough to urge residents, many of whom have been quarantined for the better part of a few months, to go outside. crowds developing outside shopping centers and the great wall, you name it. but that's also raised a lot of questions in the meantime whether all this is a little too soon, does china risk creating more problems than it's worth. hillary vaughn following all of that. hey, hillary. reporter: hey, neil. the president made it clear over the weekend, to slow the spread

guidelines aren't budging for anyone, at least not until before april 30th. but white house economic adviser larry kudlow says as soon as they can get the economy back open, it will be better for businesses and better for workers. >> the sooner we begin to reopen, the faster that snapback's going to be. we came into this with a very strong economy, all right. it got interrupted by the virus, if that's the right word. reporter: -- to open back up for business but with conditions. the country will lift its lockdown on april 19th but people will be required to wear masks and public gatherings will still be limited. china has had a stuttered start to rebooting its economy, after wuhan, china finally celebrated its first full week with no new infections but life is still not back to normal. schools are open, but college entrance exams have been postponed. the country is still restricting travel from other countries to

try to prevent a resurgence of infection there. china opened movie theaters, bars, karaoke bars, clubs and businesses, but then quickly shuttered them again. while the white house tries to weigh the risk of rolling back restrictions on businesses here, the president said he's looking at starting a second task force that would specifically target how to reopen the economy, how to get businesses back up and running, what the best way to do that would be, but we did hear from bill gates on sunday tell fox news sunday that he does not think the economy will open fully back up until there is a vaccine for this. neil? neil: hillary, thank you very, very much. so many are fixated on the coronavirus, what happens to the people that go to the hospital, need health care, need a doctor's attention? sometimes they are encouraged to be shifted aside to save whatever hospital capacity is out there for those with the virus or fearing they could have

the virus. chief medical officer, nephrologist by training. that's a doctor who treats conditions that might affect the kidney, correct? >> that's correct. neil: you have kind of said the day and age of doctors who are focusing on other things than helping out those who might need them besides with the virus, you haven't forgotten them. in fact, you will even make house calls to show that. >> that's right. that's right. yeah. i think it's such an important point to address. when we first saw these cases of the coronavirus break out, as a company, we thought strategically about those patients who were going to continue to need health care. there are those amongst us who are diabetic or hypertensive or need dialysis and we are supporting those patients by delivering both telemedicine and house calls. we are also doing remote monitoring on those patients.

so those folks who might have blood sugars or blood pressures out of control, we are able to provide them with devices so that we can do a telemedicine call or video chat and share their values with them. one of the things that we don't want to forget is even if we can't see our patients, we still want to interact and coordinate their care. as a company, that's what we are very focused on despite the covid outbreak. neil: know what i worry about, i know in the rush of everything, covid-19, i get that, that we are getting others who might be, you know, dying because the hospital situation is such that they are told this is not an urgent care need for the time being and i wonder, all that will come out later. explain what you think is going on. >> i mean, i think it's such a scary and uncertain time for so many people, let alone being sick, and if you are at home and you are worried about whether or

not you need to be hospitalized, the right step is to start with telemedicine. this way, your physician or provider is safe, you are safe, you are able to let that physician lay eyes on you through a screen or at least hear your voice through a phone call. we can tell from a video chat or phone call if you sound short of breath, if you look how we describe the word we sometimes use is toxic in medical-speak, and we want to be able to hear and comfort you and just the same, us doctors and providers are people, too. we want to feel the comfort of knowing you're okay. so for example, this morning, just before our call, i did do that for a patient. i was able to address his fear by phone and you know, both of us feel so much better going into the start of our day that he may not need testing, he can stay home, and he can be safe and keep in touch with me daily, if not more often.

neil: thank god for people like you. i'm curious, too, they say they stopped for the most part, at most hospitals, elective surgeries but someone's elective surgery might be someone's crucial stent operation to deal with a heart -- >> that's correct. neil: who decides these things? >> it's a great question. imagine if you are a gentleman with an enlarged prostate and you are living with a foley catheter draining your bladder. that's incredibly uncomfortable. it's hard for you maybe to get around, it hurts at times, it can get infected. so your point is well taken. how do we make these decisions and how do we determine which patient would benefit even though we might call it elective, which patients will benefit from moving up the date on those processes. what i'm observing is many hospitals, if necessary, are carrying out those kinds of processes. my brother-in-law is an orthopedic surgeon, very well

respected in his community, and this has been a decision he's had to make for his practice, for example. he has patients who are in pain. their joints hurt, they need help. for now he's able to help them with telemedicine calls and video chats and as he's determining what's best for his practice, he might have to operate. so we are making those decisions day by day, all of us doctors, all of us in the name of doing what's best and safest for our patients. neil: that's very good to hear, doctor. thank goodness for doctors like you, who haven't forgotten that. that was before coronavirus. it's going to be here after coronavirus. >> that's exactly right. neil: thank you for being with us. >> thank you for your time. i appreciate it. neil: be well. right back at you, for your time. the battle between peter navarro and dr. anthony fauci that apparently got pretty heated and it was over this use of a malaria drug that even the president insists would do some good. dr. fauci disagrees.

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♪ neil: all right. peter navarro and dr. fauci apparently going at it in the situation room yesterday over the effectiveness of this malaria drug, hydroxychloroqu e hydroxychloroquine, in fighting the coronavirus. these kind of things happen often behind the scenes, you know, in large cabinet meetings or when white house staffers are talking about how to handle something or an ongoing issue, they get heated. i want to get a sense of where all this is going. karl rove served in the bush administration, might have a read on this. peter navarro, i thought we were going to run some sound from him earlier today where he kind of dismissed it early on "fox & friends" that it wasn't that big a deal but obviously the two got

very very heated. i think we do have that now. this is how peter navarro characterized say these two sharp exchanges. take a look. >> 29 million tablets of hydroxy in fema warehouses and the question before the group was should we surge that hydroxy into the hot zones, and the task force unanimously voted to do that, with the proviso that this can have side effects and it has to be dispensed not by the federal government, but by the patient/doctor relationship. the media is trying to blow it up as a big, big debate but i can tell you that within the room, the decision was a sound one and it was unanimous. neil: that seemed to imply it was even accepted by dr. fauci. i don't know. i wasn't there. these things, as i tried to stress, are not too unusual. the word got out that it got a little testy. what do you think of it all?

>> look, these things do -- i have a certain skepticism about how meetings in the sit room are reported by the press. you know, granted, professor navarro does not seem to be a guy who lacks for better certain in his opinions, but the fact of the matter is dr. fauci had previously said that this malaria drug, if he were with a patient, he might prescribe it, and it appears that the decision was unanimous, let's provide this material to surge areas, areas where hot spots, where this might be needed, and leave it up to the individual doctor to make the decision. but yeah, look, this is nothing new. if you go back throughout our history, strong presidents have always had diverse opinions around him. perhaps one of the most studied moments in modern history of course is the cuban missile crisis where the president of the united states has opinions as diverse as robert mcnamara and the air force chief of

staff, curtis lemay who has been pressing the president for a long period of time to bomb cuba and on the other hand, his boss, the secretary of defense, has a much different view, let's find a way to negotiate, you know, move our way out of this crisis step by step by step. neil: you know, once doctors outside heard of this discussion in the situation room, to your point, karl, one thing that stuck in their craw was that you've got nothing to lose. a couple pointed out well, you do have something to lose, like dying. that triggers another debate, are we getting the best advice, whether trump's medical experts or those who are not, with individual doctors might not concur? >> yeah. look, dr. fauci makes the point that, and he's made this publicly, if we are going -- before we take and recommend a treatment, that we test that treatment to make certain that it has efficacy. you do not want to say to people this is the magic drug and then

have it turn out not to be the magic drug. in this case, there have been a couple small panels, i understand now there's a test going on that is being conducted in a truly scientific fashion with a big enough universe so the results can be depended upon. heretofor, the panels have been relatively small, there has not been a sort of control group against which you measure the efficacy of this treatment. so it's, you know, it may be something that an individual doctor says look, the particular effects of this drug in this particular instance i think would be helpful, but that's the difference between being helpful and being quote, the answer. before we dictate that this is quote, the answer, we better be doing it on the basis of scientific testing that gives us a high degree of confidence that it will work out. neil: let me ask you about this apex issue that's been raised in new york, that the number of cases might have hit a high, that is the number of new deaths

reported going down. there's still, i stress, new deaths, it's just the rate of increa increase, as in the rate of increase of cases, could be slowing, could, so we need more time to discern that, but do you know, karl, what is the catalyst to meet the president's goal of eventually returning people to work or at least bringing down the stay-at-home provisions that now 42 states have in effect? would it be enough to see a slowing in the increase in cases or should we stop seeing an increase in any cases? >> look, this is where we really meade need to pay close attention to the professionals because even after we peak and begin to decline, if you take a move to unfetter people and return them to work and return them to our normal lives too quickly, you could see that curve go right back up. so this is where we need to be guided by the health care professionals and hopefully,

hopefully the testing regime will allow us to identify people who may be essential in industries that are important that could return to work if it were known that either, a, they had a resistance to this, an immunity, they had had it and had developed an immunity to it, or did not have it and could be carefully monitored. this is why all these testing regimes and an ability to find out who's had it and whether they have got a resistance to it and antibody tests and so forth are so critical, because you know, look, i understand the desire to get the economy going again because we all live in that economy and we all benefit from that economy and our livelihoods depend upon that economy but if we do it too prematurely we will see a return to rapid increase and perhaps see our health care facilities overwhelmed by new fatalities. let's hope that between the weather and the regime of health care testing and the development of vaccines and antibodies and treatments that we can somehow

find a return to normalcy here within a reasonable period of time. this will be the toughest decision that president trump has to make and it can't be a single national decision, in my opinion. you've got to look at this on the basis of local realities and see if you can begin to tepidly, slowly, carefully open that aperture back up during which people can return to normal activities and most of all, return to their work. neil: what do you think it will be a return to what it was before, or will there be a slowdown in people that are taking cruises, probably not as many, people wanting to fly, probably not as many, that this could be a long, drawn-out process? >> look, every time we have a major action like this, the flu epidemic of 1918, people who survived that said life was never the same again. life didn't return to normal for several years. will this cause people to think

differently, yes. i think it will. i think it will cause people, an extreme example of that, i don't think as many people will want to go to china from the united states. for fear of this, particularly during the fall time. we will see a change in economic supply chains. we will see companies saying do we really want to have our supply chain begin in china, would we rather have it begin some place closer or in a better environment. there are going to be lots of changes. there's also going to be, i think, an unleashing of the animal spirits. i think we will all be so stir-crazy when this is done, we will want to do something even if it's get in the car and drive three hours and see grandma, we will want to do something. we will want to get out. we will want to see, there will be a desire. people are seeing their businesses, small businesses, wither in front of them and they will want to throw themselves in to try and save it and rebuild it as much as they can. neil: yeah. as soon as they can, they hope. karl rove, thank you very much,

my friend. take a quick break. the dow, 1263 points. more after this. announcer: wash your hands... avoid sick people... and touching your face. there are everyday actions to help prevent the spread of respiratory diseases. visit cdc.gov/covid19. brought to you by the national association of broadcasters and this station.

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businesses to loan in this stimulus package, not to say billions more to help out distressed industries and individuals and those even seeking mortgage relief. gerri willis has weighed in on this and how you can take advantage. gerri: good to see you or at least be remote with you. we are talking about the paycheck protection program, a $350 billion program that is available to employers, small business employers with 500 or fewer employees. so how do you take advantage of this? the devil's in the details. first off, contact your own lender. they already know all about you. they have your details, how credit-worthy you are, then fill out this form from sba.gov. simple two-page form. basically you are certifying you are going to use this money you get from the federal government to pay your employees. also, avoid the bundlers. lot of people out there online are saying we can make these loans available to you under the

ppp program. don't believe it. only use an institution that is fdic insured, a bank or federally insured credit union. let's see, how long will you have to wait for this money? listen. >> i don't think anyone is going to see money before at least a week or two. i would love to be wrong on that, because time is really of the essence. 11% of small businesses right now who are still open say if they don't get help in a month, they will need to shut down. gerri: all right, so if you want mortgage money, call your lender directly. they can help you. possibly 90 days of deferral. back to you. neil: all you have to do is ask. 'e ready to listen. . .

neil: all right. senator mitt romney office confirmed to fox that he is added self-quarantine to himself reunited with his family. i did this out of bunch precaution. his wife ann romney has multiple sclerosis. she stayed elsewhere. he is all right. she is all right. no update. senator rand paul battling the virus himself, he of course is undergoing treatment for that. but again at this point for mitt romney that saga is over. he have and his wife are just

fine. let's take one final peak at corner of wall and broad. this is not based on any economic news. on any stimulus either now or future stimulus packages planned. everything to do with people thinking maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. we shall see. charles payne to you. >> neil cavuto. thank you very much. good afternoon, everyone i'm charles payne and it is "making money." stocks are blasting into the green out in the open. the white house says there are signs of hope in the battle against the control control outbreak. >> we are also hoping to see a stabilization of cases across these large metro areas where the outbreak began several weeks ago. charles: this also as countries in europe already working on a lockdown exit strategy. trump economic advisor steve moore says we need to do it here as well or we'll be facing a great depression. he will join me in about five