and at this point it is, it is something we're going to watch very carefully. gordon, we appreciate you being with us. bill, we thank you. that's it for us tonight. good night from. elizabeth: i'm elizabeth macdonald. welcome to "the evening edit. tonight we're trend spot agroing phenomenon. despite the lockdown, despite the threats to ticket and imprison people america is slowly opening up without government permission. it is happening from coast to coast. we saw that this weekend. texas beaches jam-packed. they were jam-packed in california. parks in new york city packed. florida beaches, in the northeast, vermont, maine, people are coming out, people coming out in the midwest, people coming out in the northwest. they're coming out in the south too. they're not waiting for the state orders to stay in to expire. it is all happening now.

we've got breaking news coming into our studios at this hour. a major protest now breaking out in boston, the likes of which massachusetts has never seen before. people are coming out by the thousands to protest massachusetts stay-at-home orders. let's bring in john cox, former california republican gubernatorial candidate. john, great to have you on. your reaction to this news in boston that america is not waiting. >> good to be with you. elizabeth: america is not waiting for the shutdown, stay in place orders to expire. go ahead. >> it is extremely troubling, liz. this is a serious illness, as you know i had it. i recovered. i had three friends that have been in icu. i found out a few seconds ago, my last friend is making it out but it is great. what we also need to have is a view that we're not going to make the problem worse by destroying the economy or by taking away civil liberties. i think what we're seeing now is

disclosing the unsustainability of some of the reactions. not just in boston but in los angeles, in california as well. because you can't hold people down, you can't hold the economy down like we have and expect the people to continue to respect it. i saw over the weekend an interview with a swedish epidemiologist who helped design the response. i know sweden is all in the news and everything but he made the important point, liz, that if you design something that is not sustainable, the people are not going to respect it for any length of time. you will actually going to make the problem worse. this is something that the politicians don't get. they have to understand that human nature, being what it is, we want to get out, we want to go to our work. we want to be able to speak in public and when the government acts too restrictively, we rebel against it. that is what is happening. elizabeth: you know the

president is set to travel to a mask factory in arizona tomorrow. by the way the vice president said this weekend he should have worn a facemask last week at minnesota's mayo clinic. the president said now poe earningsly up to 100,000 deaths. we know this disease, which you john cox, had, three times deadly or contagious as the flu. trump administration is privately speculating coronavirus deaths double by june 1st. they're pushing for states to reopen. what happens on the ground americans are frustrated with restrictive and arbitrarily enforced, a temporarily enforced stay-at-home orders. you take that on, john? >> what people are saying, liz, treat us like adults. we will certainly not put ourselves or our grandmothers in danger. we'll make sure that we have

careful around. i flew down to florida when i was covid infected with three other gentlemen. we were very close together, less than two feet away. none of the other gentlemen got sick. the idea that we were careful. we didn't shake hands. we didn't touch same things. i think what people are rebelling against -- elizabeth: did you wear masks? >> no. we didn't have a mask. elizabeth: did you wear masks? you didn't? >> i, no. i didn't even know i was infected at that point in time but we were still cautious. and that's the point. adults are going to behave in a way to make sure that they are cautious, especially with this. we all -- all four of us knew the disease was out there. we knew it was going on. we watched the news. so we were very careful. the point is, none of the other three tested positive, even though they were sitting right next to me just about. the point is, we can act as adults. we can make sure we're protected. we can make sure that we don't

kill grand ma or grandpa but treat us like adults. that is what a lot of protests are about, paternalistic government. face it, liz, this happens in so many other spheres, government feels like they have to take over and do everything for us, that we're too stupid to do it ourselves. i think we're a lot smarter than a lot of politicians give us credit for. i would ask politicians look at the totality of what they're asking us to do. elizabeth: okay. so this, all right, by the way, medical investigators are now looking for evidence that covid-19 started killing people as early as november, that news coming in. we know the senate has come back to work today. we're waiting, when the house will announce when they get back. they're trying to work safely down there in washington. a lot of these lawmakers are, are senior citizens. this week's jobs report is expected to look ugly, potentially 30 million people out of work, maybe even higher.

>> unbelievable. >> california for the first time, california, california is the first state to borrow money from the federal taxpayer to pay jobless benefits. we're breaking all sorts of norms here. that is what is going on in this country. you know, we saw this story also the story a few weeks ago, the fda is approving tests, 150 of them, only approved 10 tests that are fda approved. 150 in the market are not fda-approved. i hear what you're saying, seeing decisions made state to state, federal level. americans are saying what are you doing? >> liz, what hasn't been talked about in any great extent here the effect on our psychology. i'm a businessman, i'm an investment advisor. i understand psychology really makes a difference how investors feel, how consumers feel. you know, one of the problems, the great depression, which i don't want to repeat, i'm sure you don't either, is that the

psychology was impacted because people said, i'm just not going to feel good about going spending. i'm not feeling good about make the investment. in order to have a strong economy we all need to have confidence. we all have to have trust things will turn out a lot better and i'm afraid, liz, as you mentioned, we'll have a report of 30 million, jobs report on friday. we've already seen gdp fall off the table. that is going to get worse. a lot of these politicians are playing with fire and they don't really understand it because they're not not private sector that much but they're destroying the confidence of people have in the economy. i applaud the president when he speaks optimistically because, what he is trying to do, frankly, is rebuild our confidence in the face of some of these horrendous statistics we'll see. i think we need to see more leadership like that and work to really repair the psychology which i think is being very damaged by this economic shutdown.

elizabeth: john cox, thanks for coming coming on. >> thank you, liz. elizabeth: sorry we ran out of time. later in the show we bring in rnc chairwoman ronna mcdaniel, that tara reade is facing a barrage of harrassment and threats on her allegation that joe biden sexually assaulted her. that story coming up. ♪ want to brain better? unlike ordinary memory supplements neuriva has clinically proven ingredients that fuel 5 indicators of brain performance. memory, focus, accuracy, learning, and concentration. try neuriva for 30 days and see the difference.

♪. elizabeth: let's break away from the political fights in washington to show you what's going on the ground. look at this video that has now gone viral. it happened on ninth street, avenue d in the east village in new york city. a big outcry. a bystander was watching nypd take down a couple for violating social distancing rules. suddenly an nypd officer who was not wearing a mask, breaks away from that arrest, walks over to the bystander with his stun gun drawn, slaps and punches the bystander, drags him to a sidewalk, after leveling him in a crosswalk. let's get to louisiana senator bill cassidy. also a doctor. great to have you on, doctor. we've seen fights breaking out in various states across the country. it is getting nasty out there. the american people are saying we're out of a job. politicians get paid. the media get their paychecks. we're not getting it.

people are scared about the backlash coming toward them for violating social distancing rules. you're reaction? >> there is lot of frustration, totally get that. what we need to do, i'm speaking now totally as a physician, use sirens to reopen society. having conversations with my communities back in baton rouge. if you look in area of a city, not generally distributed where people have disease. often times focal points. if you put resources there, you test folks, you are quarantine, congress giving resources to do that. you can bring down the transmission rate. you safely begin to reopen the economy, i think we have to push for that. elizabeth: okay. the other thing too, we're seeing news coming in. we have the university of california, san francisco, they're working now, they found five drug compound that work including hydroxychlorquine. they are finding common antihistamines, common cough suppressants are working.

haldol working, a cancer compound, disrupts proteins that virus attaches to in human cells. dr. birx is saying on paper we might have a vaccine by january. oxford university says by june you could see a vaccine. reaction to medical news,. >> all that is promising. you have to make sure it works inside of people and it is safe as well. on one hand, we have to use science where to focus preventative medicine, keeping transmission rate less than one, but continue to work on the vaccine and therapeutics. all of society approach, we're all in it together. everything to describe it is encouraging. you want to make sure it turns out to be useful. elizabeth: okay. we started the show showing breaking news, protests happening now in boston. it is unlike anything that the state of massachusetts had seen. it is a different kind of a process.

it is saying reopen. thousands of people pouring into what is happening in this protest happening right now in boston. also we're seeing protests even in hawaii, maryland. we're seeing protests in california, certainly in michigan. protesters are saying their constitutional rights are being infringed upon. concerns are growing that prematurely opening could cost constituents their lives. what is your reaction to that? >> i will go back to what i've been saying, if you look where the virus is, it is not generally distributed. it is focused in some areas. if you focus resources in those areas, granted it can spread, you have to do contact tracing. congress has given billions to states to implement the programs. we have have to go beyond at some point, everybody has to stay in their home, wait a second, over here, this region of the state seems to be doing okay. this place is still having trouble but we can put the resources in there, with lots of testing, with tracking of that testing to make sure we know

what is going on, to decrease the burden of disease. it is about using science to decrease the burden of disease, as long as one size fits all, people will increasingly become frustrated as they see their community is not affect and they're being locked down for something across their state. elizabeth: then we're seeing another trend. we're looking at the american civil liberties union, the aclu, suing the state of california toe release early from prison, 500 inmates from jail in orange county. there is a concern that covid-19 is spreading through prisons. washington state was sued by an activist group though they wanted two thirds of prison population released in washington state. california released seven sex offenders in orange county, they are high risk, will reoffend. guess what, one of the sex offenders was rearrested for exposing himself in public. americans are out of a job, they

want to work, they see this going on. your reaction. >> i understand people are clearly frustrated, we have concerns about the guards, staff, families of guards and staffs in prisons. there are concerns there. you should not release sex offenders or violent criminals. if you have a mayor went to prison for nine years, maybe the mayor gets out early. if you have person committing section crimes that's a different story. we have don't have to just think about the inmates but the guards. i say that. i have a facility in my state, a lot of guards and families have been affected. i'm very concerned about those americans who are trying to serve the rest of us, how do we mitigate the risk for them. for me that is my concern. elizabeth: snort, talk to us quickly about the outbreak in louisiana of covid-19 and in the can you give us an update? >> in the new orleans region,

maybe mardi gras instigated it, it became a hotbed if you will and the number of cases really spiked. we have a stay-at-home order in place t flattened the curve. we always had enough surplus icu beds and ventilators. so tip of the hat to both my hospitals back home, doctors, nurses, et cetera, at home state government planning that. they did that well. they're flattening the curve. people are getting restless there. i go back to what i said earlier, look at new orleans and jefferson parish. it is not everywhere in new orleans and jefferson parish which have lots of virus, certain tracks in certain places. we have to measure census tracks, going to nursing homes and group homes. and apartment come mixes with folks living over 60, knowing they're particularly at risk if infection an terse the population. if we do the screening there, quarantining when we need to, it is all voluntary but we're trying to save lives, then you

will decrease the rate of infection spreading more rapidly in a more safely opens the economy that is the approach we have to be changing to now, a more granular containment approach as opposed to everybody stay at home, even if it is across the state from where it is a problem. elizabeth: vaccine registry, right? a vaccine registry which we've had in the past, right? >> what i think would totally help that if you had a way to establish whether somebody has been exposed or not. maybe their rna, their nasal swab was positive and they cleared the infection. most likely we don't know for sure yet, most likely they are now less, they're resistent to getting a new infection. if you do an antibody test, you find they have antibodies to the coronavirus, this particular one, most likely they are going to be immune of the more people we know are immune, the more you can open up the economy. that is our goal. elizabeth: senator cassidy,

great to have you on, sir, thank you, sir. >> thank you, liz. elizabeth: special programing note. this thursday at 1:00 p.m. eastern time ken langone and bernie marcus will join neil cavuto for "america work stogether," virtual town hall. if you're a small business owner or needing a loan or having to deal with unemployment, message fox business on facebook or instagram, email us at investedinyou@foxbusiness dot-com. include a video asking a question, you may be featured on the special. why not, take a shot. reports of a scathing rebuke issued bit five is, consortium of intelligence notice u.s., uk, australia, canada and new zealand supports what the president is saying, secretary of state saying, that china

accidentally leaked covid-19 from the wuhan institute of virology and tried to cover it up this is story we brought to you two months ago. this is just for starters. we have more breaking news, retired marine corps lieutenant colonel dakota wood will weigh in. the story is next. er. nothing gentler. nothing lasts longer. flonase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief me too. me too. and if you're a small business, we're with you. standing by you every step of the way. bye bye.

♪ elizabeth: let's welcome retired marine corps lieutenant colonel dakota wood. great to have you on. u.s. intelligence community believes that china intentionally concealed the origin ever outbreak in order to pull in medical supplies around the world. your reaction to that story? >> it is good to have more than the u.s. saying that, that our allies saying the same thing reaching those conclusions. it is not surprising at all if it turns out to be accurate, the repressive authoritarian government in beijing reacted like that. that they control information, always have a posture being in control. they don't want to be embarrassed and they will hide any kind of problems that might exist inside of the country. it really shouldn't come as a

surprise. it lists a warning that you can't trust what china is saying anymore what you can trust what moscow is saying or north korea or iran. we always have to verify information via second and third order sources. elizabeth: you know, colonel, we reported a couple of months ago that china was trying to grab the patent for remdesivir in january before the world knew what was going on. then we're seeing reports china researchers are trying to attack gilead's remdesivir as not working. that is another story what you're saying, the australia newspaper, the telegraph, is reporting on a leaked, scathing rebuke of china, the five eyes consortium, that china accidentally leaked covid-19 from the wuhan institute of virology. look at this, this is what they're finding. that china had a virus, working

on a virus just like the one that has broken loose in 2013. that they have been working on it for seven years. we saw this happen in 2004 when sars cov broke out of a lab in beijing and infected one person, may have killed nine people. we've been here before, colonel. >> yes. do all countries do some form of genetic research to come up with new vaccines and treatments. if you're concerned about bioterrorism, biowarfare, how would you respond to that effectively with treatments. the fact they were working on it should be a surprise. the fact they had lax protocols, something escaped the lab, is testament or damnation of their incompetency doing these sort of things. it is not a surprise. it is an indication of the nature of this particular regime. if you also follow that kind of reporting they removed any

instances of reporting from social media. they restrict the flow of information, especially to their own people to maintain this facade of authority there in beijing. so this should really translate into the nature of economic relationships we have. whether we allow china to build 5g infrastructure in places like the continent of europe and certainly the states. so everything needs to be taken with skepticism and some kind of assurety that we carnival date or go to a second or third source to verify anything that beijing says. elizabeth: yeah. it's happening now. europe is pushing to effectively punish china saying, we don't want huawei in here. that is what germany and france is saying. we're seeing countries in africa, certainly france, they're calling in their ambassadors, chinese ambassadors saying what are you doing there in china? you know also seeing china held off informing the w.h.o. that the coronavirus was a contagion,

concealed, it was human-to-human transmission but how do you hold china accountable? again the backlash against china is now growing around the world and the w.h.o. is blocking one of the biggest whistleblowers of all, taiwan, is still not allowed at w.h.o.'s table. how do you go to say to china and the w.h.o., stop this, we can't do this again, we can't have another pandemic like this? >> i think voters across countries observe behavior by the world health organization, can you trust it? they observe behavior and truthfulness out of beijing, can you trust them? the penalty imposed do you want to do business with a regime that behaves the way the communist party behaves out of china. if you have a trade deal. if you have exported or outsourced your production, if you're always going for lowest price and you find the person giving you the lowest price, there is a human rights

violator, they use essentially slave labor, subsidizing currency in the products, serial theft of intellectual property, it is all consistent, right, in the pattern of behavior. does a country, united states, germany, great britain, australia, whomever, want to do business to provide wealth to that country that gives them that sort of an advantage. with 1.4 billion people, there are promises beijing has to make to the growing middle class, to see degrading of foreign financial investment in that country. it i will was serious penalty as we see these production lines and supplier bases leaving china and going elsewhere. so i think that will be the biggest cost imposed on china in the near future. elizabeth: yeah. that's happened even before the pandemic they were removing supply chance out of china, into other parts of asia, including vietnam. colonel wood, thank you so much for joining us. thank you for your service to our current through. great to have you on, sir.

>> thank you for what you're doing for the american public. elizabeth: sure. just ahead, tara reade saying she's now facing a barrage of harrassment and threats after she made public allegations that joe biden sexually assaulted her in the early 90s, as more and more critics step up and say when it comes to joe biden and democrats, there is a double standard for powerful men? we'll talk to republican national committee chair ronna mcdaniel about this and much more. stay there. ♪. i have the power to lower my blood sugar and a1c. because i can still make my own insulin. and trulicity activates my body to release it like it's supposed to. once weekly trulicity is for type 2 diabetes.

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well, you see here... there's a photo of you and there's a photo of your mommy and then there's a picture of me. but before our story it goes way, way, way back with your great, great, great grandparents. see this handsome man, his name is william. william fell in love with rose and they had a kid. his name was charles and charles met martha... isn't she pretty? yeah.

♪ elizabeth: welcome our guest, ron ma mcdaniel of the rnc. tara reade faced a barrage of harrassment and threats saying joe biden sexually assaulted her in 1993. people are saying i hope you

drop dead, tara reade. >> that is uncalled for. no woman should be attacked. that is not what our country is about. sad to see that the democrats believe her, me too party, so quickly move on, say joe biden is joe biden and disregard any of these allegations, not calling for an investigation, you know, liz, the university of delaware took a grant, a taxpayer grant for biden's archives. so the taxpayers are paying for these archives, yet he won't open them up and allow this investigation to go forward. elizabeth: i mean, so brett kavanaugh had his personal notes, his diary probed, fbi investigation. you know, let me back up. we have john cooper, former chair of the democrat coalition questioning if reade was quote unbalanced or driven by malicious motive. we have a biden delegate calling for an fbi investigation into reporters covering the allegations.

so you know there is a different standard being held for tara reade. she describes herself as a working class poor person. she is a life-long democrat. now says the democrat party has betrayed her. different standard versus what happened with brett kavanaugh. >> hypocrisy with the media, versus how brett kavanaugh and joe biden has been treated is crazy. joe biden had five weeks of interviews when the allegations came forward. he was not asked one question in 19 interviews. one interview he was asked a he request, now they say move on, this is a non-story. brett kavanaugh dug into his life. they destroyed his life. they had uncorroborated accusers that never even met him. they threw every journalistic standard out of window. the bias of the media is on display. all the democrat senators out there crying tears, we have to

believe the women, where are they now? they are silent now because their candidate, democrat candidate is one being accused. it shows how hypocritical they are. elizabeth: you know, when the alleged attack against tara reade took place, she was 29 years old. joe biden was a grown man a u.s. senator for 20 years. brett kavanaugh was a high school teenager at a party where a lot of beer was consumed. dr. christine blasey ford was backed by phalanx of probroken know lawyers and feminists organizations. tara reade received no help. head of dnc, tom perez on abc's "this week," dismiss the demand joe biden release senate records where tara reade's complaint sits, possibly other complaints, university of delaware records tom perez saying this is like the hillary clinton emails all over again. your reaction to that? >> it is like the hillary clinton emails because they're both hiding things.

they are hiding things they don't want the public to see, i think tom perez was astute in that comparison. why can't we see joe biden's records? if he is so innocent, why can't there be thorough research. i'm concerned about it now, because he allowed his staff members to go back in the records. university of delaware allowed that to happen, which is disgusting, considering the records were paid for with taxpayer dollars. they have four state-paid staff members that are working on these records. so why are taxpayer dollars being used to hide joe biden's archives? why can't these come forward? we weren't through brett kavanaugh's yearbook. we went through every aspect of his life, yet joe biden gets to put everything in lock and key. it is just shameful. elizabeth: i think you meant that tom perez was unwittingly astute. >> yes, unwittingly, exactly. >> unwittingly. okay, brett kavanaugh was investigated by the fbi. joe biden demanded that brett kavanaugh be investigated

by the fbi. as in any confirmmation there will be questions by senators from both parties but "the new york times" wrote the op-ed, editorial board said, biden, a probe of what happened with biden should be done by his own party, the dnc. so "the new york times" is really getting criticized saying really? you will get the dnc to appoint a non-partisan panel of investigators, and then decide, we're going to debunk this and dismiss tara reade coverage of tara reade debunk it? the media demanded full congressional investigation into kavanaugh but not biden's papers. you see what is happening here, right? >> absolutely. it was kavanaugh had to be investigated by the fbi. they went into his yearbook. they dissected every part of his life. now biden, "the new york times" saying the dnc? talk about a biased investigation. of course the american people would not believe that investigation. it really is unfull display the

discrepancy between how these two men were treated. listen, i'm glad democrats embraced due process and presumption of innocence because it is now pa democrat because they threw all those standards away when a republican is accused. it eroded our country's judicial process, due process, all the things we hold dear. we can't hold presumption of innocence to joe biden to declaration of innocence. there has been no investigation. i think they're skipping a step here. elizabeth: critics are saying the president had his accusers too. his accusers ended up on the cover of magazines, whole profiles done on cnn, msnbc, "60 minutes," same with kavanaugh's accuser. don't have that with tara reade. your word on president's accusers. >> anybody that accuse as republican gets full media attention. you're allowed to do any type of interview. there is no vetting. we saw that with

brett kavanaugh, with a woman who accused him of gang rape who has been referred for criminal prosecution. it is a total double standard as to how joe biden has been treated with the gloves-off approach, don't ask him anything, let's not investigate. let's believe joe because he is joe. this is not what our country is about. >> ronna mcdaniel thanks for joining us. >> thank you. elizabeth: coming up we're staying on the story. remember before all of this news broke that joe biden said on the record, women should be believed. we've got the sound and the tape and plenty more. independent women's forum senior policy analyst kelsey bolar joins us next. stay right there. ♪.

♪. elizabeth: what, welcome back. watch joe biden over the last couple of years say to women, i'm your fighter, and that women

should be believed. watch this. >> why do you think women who get raped, so many don't report it? they don't want to get raped again by the system. it its all about the abuse of power, number one. number two, women should be believed. takes enormous courage for a woman to come forward. the presumption should be if the woman comes forward she is likely telling the truth as the presumption that the man is telling the truth. they should start off with the presumption they're telling the truth. then you have to look at the circumstances and the facts. and the facts in this case do not exist. elizabeth: let's bring in kelly bolar from the independent women's forum. kelsey, he is saying women should be believed, just not tara reade. your reaction? >> joe biden sounds very different now that he stands accused and i think we need to take a step back to ask what the implications the way the democrats are handling the

allegations mean for the greater "me too" movement. before me too ever existed there was a problem women were bringing forth allegations were not being listened to, they were not taken seriously. the "me too" movement got started and liberal and conservative women wanted to get behind it. unfortunately during the kavanaugh confirmmation we saw that movement become politicized and used to destroy a man, strip him of his right to due process and defend himself. now that one of their own stands accused with joe biden facing these very serious allegations now, we're seeing democrats send a message that, to women, that says, believe all women unless, unless their narrative is convenient for our political advantage and this is very unfortunate for women because, instead of just ignoring them now, democrats, many women now are sending the message that you will only be believed if your

story can be used as a political tool. elizabeth: you know, it is, what's happening now too, critics are saying that the democratic establishment and the media are doing for joe biden, again, these are allegations against joe biden. basically you saw them circle the wagons for bill clinton, for ted kennedy, about deflecting, denying, deflecting their guy simply because he is their guy. talking about prominent women from nancy pelosi to stacey abrams. hillary clinton endorsing biden. your reaction to all of that? i will bring it up again, joe biden was a grown man. he was a senator for 20 years when these allegations allegedly, these claims allegedly took place. brett kavanaugh was a high school teenager, your reaction. >> you're right to point that out, joe biden was a sitting senator when this allegation allegedly took place. that said, i think we have seen the media, there is a clear

double standard in the way that they're handling this allegations. joe biden was able to get away with not addressing it for weeks. again, what i think is even worse is to see progressive women who claimed that they are feminists who many young girls and women look up to just minutes after corroborating witnesses come forward and confirmed tara reade's story, you see them, you see them doubling down. elizabeth: kelly billion -- billion lar thanks for join us. thank you. elizabeth: firestorm over the bombshells. more controversy going on with the fbi, that fbi officials tried to entrap and coyers michael flynn in order to get then candidate, presumptive president donald trump. the president now reportedly unhappy with fbi director christopher wray for not doing enough to root out corruption at the highest levels of the fbi.

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♪. elizabeth: let's bring in former

whitewater independent counsel and former counsel to president trump, he is robert ray. great to have you back on, robert. can i get your reaction to congressman devin nunes's call for an investigation? he is saying there is coverup right now happening at the fbi that basically fbi director christopher wray is not doing enough to root out corruption in the aftermath of what is going on with the michael flynn case. your reaction to that? >> i think my reaction is let's wait and see on that one. the immediate issue before us what's the judge going to do as this guilty plea continues to fall apart in light of the disclosure of potentially exculpatory information and also other problems with the guilty plea that suggest that michael flynn was under duress in terms of the threats to prosecute his son. apparently, if it is true, the promise of a of a side deal in exchange for his guilty plea,

his son wouldn't be prosecuted. there are all kinds of problems with what happened here. the interview took place four days after the inauguration of the president. it is not even clear to me what the fbi was investigating. so it is a little hard to figure out how his statements would have been material, which is a requirement under the false statements statute in order to make out a crime. so you know, if you're asking for a prediction what i think should happen, before we get to an investigation, my guess is that the judge may well allow michael flynn through counsel to withdraw his guilty plea. then it will be up to the justice department as to whether or not a prosecution which is falling apart should be pursued any further. i expect that the end of the day the department of justice will walk away from this prosecution. so that is what i think will happen. there will be plenty of time to answer your question to a new investigation about what the fbi knew, when it knew it, and what it did to correct obviously a

number of problems here. you know the fbi having gone rogue apparently around supervision at main justice in washington, d.c. so there is a whole host of problems. elizabeth: yeah. and so you know the bombshells about the fbi officials at that time trying to entrap and coyers michael flynn in order to get damaging testimony against trump and the russia probe, flynn's attorney, sidney powell said former fbi director james comey and other senior officials in the obama administration, quote, likely committed federal crimes trying to cook up and create a crime against michael flynn. the notes of an fbi official during the case said get flynn to lie, or get him to violate the logan act. your reaction to that? >> i have always been troubled by the notion that the fbi through james comey snuck two fbi agents into the white house to interview high level

official, michael flynn, who was, you know, then the national security advisor, and you know the troubling part about that is, first of all, he want represented by counsel. second it would have been confusing to him why those agents were even there. it wasn't clear i'm sure to him that they were conducting or thought they were conducting a criminal investigation. i mean i think his likely conclusion would be that they were asking hill, you know, matters relative to intelligence gathering. finally, the conversation that they were asking him about, they already had the conversation. they had a transcript of it. so it is a little hard to see how anything they could have asked him could possibly have been material. you know, look, as far as entrapment is concerned, i think, you know, eventually can go there, before you even go there there are some problems with this prosecution. i think better course is going to be for the judge, as i said, previously, it is for the judge to allow michael flynn, general flynn to withdraw his guilty plea.

that will put the ball back into the -- elizabeth: then the president will pardon. then the president could pardon him. the president could pardon him. we're running out of time. >> the president -- elizabeth: charles schumer told msnbc, the intelligence community can retaliate against you any six ways from sunday. when you look at the timeline, it is striking. peter strzok, then keeps michael flynn case open, even though fbi agents saw nothing to charge him with. then peter strzok texted another official, quote, the seventh floor, meaning senior fbi officials wanted it kept open. the next day comey briefs president obama, vice president obama officials, including susan rice in the oval office, will talk to trump in the trump tower about the debanked steele dossier. then reaction leaked to the media. your reaction to that? >> i think it is a reflection of the fact that if ever a u.s.

citizen faced something like this you would be profoundly disappointed at the tactics that were used here. the president sounded the alarm about this. it should never happen again. elizabeth: okay. robert ray, thank you so much. thanks for joining us. evening,. we begin with breaking news as we have learned more details of president trump's intention to hold communist china and the world health organization accountable for the deadly pandemic that has spread farther this evening, infecting and killing more people. president trump will punish china for releasing and lying about the severe few of the deadly wuhan virus, and mr. trump clearly means to end involvement and financial support of the world health organization because of its alignment with china and the unequivocal lies about