described, are the leaders of the chinese communist party. they have an obligation to the world. not one from last month or two months ago but one from today. lou: congressman mike p

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♪. elizabeth: welcome back. let's welcome our next guest. dr. william shafner, a infectious disease expert at vanderbilt medical center. doctor, great to have you on. the governor of florida launching mass testing next week. 200,000 antibody tests at hospitals, two dozen drive-up testing sites across the state. your reaction to that? >> liz, i hope the antibody test

they're use something reliable. that is the first thing. we've seen some antibody tests on the market that are not very rigorous, so that is very, very important. a lot of people want to know if they were infected with the coronavirus in the past. that is what this antibody test sells us and if they're going to make that available, it is a rigorous test, a lot of people will be interested in receiving the results. elizabeth: you know there has been debate about when the outbreak started. this is a mystery. the uk is saying, could have started going around the world last year, late last year. sweden and france say it may have started in november due to infected travelers from china. this matters for immunity and antibodies. florida, they're saying maybe it started started in december here. so what's your take on that? >> well it may well have started that early. wouldn't surprise us. i don't think we'll ever be able to nail it down but i think what

the folks in florida will discover as they do these antibody tests, that the large majority of the population is still susceptible. so that the coronavirus could spread widely in florida and in any other state in this country. so we're going to have to keep our social distancing activities on for many, many months. there are a lot of people who are susceptible. florida is the home for a lot of people who are retired, they're older, they're exactly the folks who may indeed get more serious infections, if they do get infected. so, take care. elizabeth: yeah. you know there has been a lot of complaints, how come testing is not up to speed. again and again, we keep hearing from medical experts, this is a really complex test. you can't ramp it up in weeks times. him iv is a rna virus.

cove-2 is rna virus and cov-1. those took nine months. it is pretty stunning that the u.s. government got tested up so rapidly. ii want to move up to optimism. uk is reporting a new drug. called eidd-2801. it is basically attacking the same type of viral enzyme that gilead's remdesivir does. the thing with this, doctor, is , i.e.d. d-2801, it sounds really good. it comes in pill form. if it is safe and effective, you can take it at home and attack it faster, than attack the virus faster which you have to take intravenously. it is already in trials in uk and u.s. what is your reaction to it? >> very interesting. it is an oral drug, that means it could be given very early to abort infection after you get

infected, after you get contact with the virus but this drug is now going into trials. we'llhave to see whether it works, how well it works and how safe it is. so let's wait for the trials before we get too exuberant about it, but it is a promising step. long journeys, first steps. elizabeth: yeah. it took years to, when you talk about vaccines, it took years to get ebola vaccine or a mumps vaccine. doctors recommend taking vitamin-d. it boosts your immune system. there is worries about japan's flu drug, avigan out of fujifilm. it could create birth defects which we saw birth defects from solimid in the '50s and '60s. final word? >> my in box is full of all kinds of suggestions that might work. what we say, in god we trust.

all others must provide clinical data. let's see clinical trials to practice evidence-based medicine. take it easy, do it right, we can take the best care of our patients. >> doctor, good to see you. great having you on. thank you so much. >> thank you, liz. bye-bye. elizabeth: this is a hot story. it's a hot debate. look what is happening in texas. the texas attorney general calling on a judge to free a dallas hair salon owner. he put her in jail for seven days, threatened to, because xi defied orders against reopening. the latest high-stakes, high-drama showdown to rev up the economy. we have former trump 2016 campaign deputy manager david campaign deputy manager david bossie next on that outrage. there are times when our need to connect really matters. to keep customers and employees in the know. to keep business moving. comcast business is prepared for times like these. powered by the nation's largest gig-speed network.

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♪. elizabeth: welcome dave bossy, citizens united president. dave, outrage over what is happening in texas. let me back up. thousands of criminals, including violent criminals, have been released from jails and prisons across the country to protect them from the coronavirus. we'll have you react to this video we're about to show of a hair salon owner in dallas,

texas, found in contempt much court yesterday for violating an order to shut her hair salon. watch the judge eric moyer ask shelley luther would make a statement admitting to the court she was wrong and selfish to keep her business open. she said instead, quote, feeding my kids is not selfish. watch this. >> sir, when you say i'm selfish, because feeding my kids is not selfish. i -- going hungry because they would rather feed their kids. so, sir, if you think the law is more born than kids getting fed, then please go ahead with your decision but i'm not going to shut the salon. elizabeth: the judge ordered her jailed for seven days. texas ag saying stop that. don't do that. don't put her in jail. your reaction to this? >> first of all this judge, he should be humiliated.

this was an incredibly stupid and tin eared decision that he rendered. this, look, he put her in jail for seven days, fined her $7,000. there is no bail opportunity. no way to go home. she went to a jail cell. this is outrageous conduct, when dallas county, exact area where she is, is releasing hardened criminals back into society to protect them from corona but putting a woman who is trying to provide not just for herself, but for her employees families, she is letting her employees work. they weren't doing it willy-nilly. they were not throwing caution to the wind. they were using smart, you know, procedures that the cdc, they were doing the right things but they were open. this is government run amok. and i'm glad that lieutenant, the lieutenant governor of texas offered to pay her fine, dan

patrick. what a amazing guy to stand up to say that today. we hope she is better off when this is over. but what an outrage. elizabeth: put her in a jail system where covid-19, there could be, flying all around that jail. texas governor, said, open hair salons. then the judge throwing her for seven days in a jail. i mean, let me back un. we've got two -- go ahead, dave, take that on. >> no. the judge issues the ruling, within hours, the governor of the state issues a ruling to open all the barbershops and salons and a few other businesses. so the judge should have automatically let her out. instead he is standing on his principle. i think it is outrageous. it shows what is wrong with big government. somebody who never wanted to be a texan, i appreciate what she, what she did. that is a courageous thing for

that texan to do. elizabeth: so there is two fights happening here. we've got, let's go to michigan. the republican-led state legislature is suing the governor of michigan over the draconian orders, stopping landscaping and gardening. we see these fight breaking out across the country with these draconian orders. then critics are attacking president trump for saying yesterday, you got to reopen despite people possibly getting sick and dying. so you see that fight happening. people are asymptomatic for this disease, they could be incubating it for two weeks with asymptomatic. you see two fights. take that on. >> governor whitmer is doing the exact opposite of what governors are doing. she is doing a terrible job a horrible job, and i hope the people of michigan rise up

against her. every governor across the state has their own situation but numbers about cases in michigan have been going down and they have been going down steadily over the last many days. so it is not like they have a rising number of cases or a spike in deaths. they are on the downhill slide. it is when governors are saying we must open up, we're opening slowly, smartly, methodically, not governor whitmer. she is none of those. really republicans in, this becomes a political football. it shouldn't be. look what president trump has done through his leadership, working with governors on both sides of the aisle, cuomo and gavin newsom and others who are praising him and he is praising them. that is what should be happening. there should be no politics here. governor whitmer is trying to become the vp nominee and i think this is backfiring on her. i think this helps president trump wins michigan come back november. elizabeth: we'll see. you know, the governor of

new york saying that the covid-19 doesn't kill democrats or republicans. it kills everybody, if you get it, if you get really sick with it, you it cokill you. he is saying it is apolitical. stop with the politicization of the virus. dave bossy, thanks so much for joining us. really appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. elizabeth: next up venezuela aren'ting two american former soldiers on suspicion of getting into the country to try to overthrow communist dictator nicolas maduro. you can see them on the far left and far right, detained by soldiers. we're bringing in retired four-star general jack keane on this story next

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♪ elizabeth: welcome back, let's bring in retired four-star general jack keane. great to see you, general.

we'll show you footage at the moment venezuela arrested two americans on suspicions of a plot to overthrow communist dictator nicolas maduro. he blamed colombia and juan guaido. two former u.s. special forces soldiers associated with a florida based private security firm silver corps. they were served in iraq. led from a fishing boat, being arrested. what is going on with this story? why did they think they could go over throw the dictator there? >> that is a great question. this operation actually began last year when there was protested by the venezuela army members against the nicolas maduro regime. that was supposed to lead other senior people joining that, but never happened. it got into the mind of retired major general akila, who

organized a meeting in boeing ga to, colombia, where other former venezuela army leaders attended and jordan gudir, a head of a private security company named silver corpse. that is where the special forces got involved. he is a former special forces medic himself. out of this grew an organization of about 300 strong. they organized themselves in training camps in colombia with the venezuela border. they were primitive. that is understatement. lack of running water, ammunition, people using broomstick handles to simulate weapons. this was a group, the plan was to go into venezuela. conduct raids on venezuela army barracks and bases, get the members there, once it was seized to join the movement and therefore create an insurgency and major military opposition to the reg dispeople.

eventually over time, depose the maduro and capture him. now listen, that would be a formidable task for any military organization that had good leadership, a lot of people and a lot of resources. it still may fail. this thing was destined to fail from the beginning. it was overly ambitious, ill conceived. the plan is naive. it underestimates the cale of difficulty and underestimates the capacity of the venezuela army which policed these folks up rather quickly. some within less than 24 hours of them stepping on venezuelan soil. so yeah, this is extraordinary how poorly done this was in terms of planning and execution. elizabeth: do you believe the administration when it stays it

had no idea this was going on? do you believe juan guaido is saying he had nothing to do with them? maduro was saying they hired mercenaries that signed a 212 million-dollar contract with juan guaido using stolen money from pedevesa and there are stories that the leader of this is associated with president trump's bodyguard? do you believe juan guaido and president had nothing to do with this and didn't know about it? >> they are saying they have no u.s. involvement. listen the colombia intelligence service is certainly aware what has happened. they knew there were training camps in colombia, near the venezuela border. liking knew the meeting where all the venezuela army leaders were gathering in their capital city. so if the colombian intelligence service understood something was happening, likely the u.s. intelligence understood it. once they understood it no way

they would go anywhere near that. they knew it had no political support from juan guaido who is the president of venezuela in name only. one of his colleagues did attend that significant meeting that took place in bogota. he walked out of the meeting characterizing it as a suicide mission destined to fail. i think there is a lot of fake news out of here in terms of colombian involvement in supporting it. the united states involvement, no, there is none. juan guaido's involvement at least on surface of it, there is none there whatsoever. i don't buy into any of that. however, here is something that is factual. maduro is using this to strengthen his position which is likely to happen. he is showing himself as a power man, as a dominant force, that you're trying to invade his country. he is going to defeat you. he is broadcasting this out on his national television every

single hour, pictures that you're displaying here, the venezuelan people by now are sick of seeing. but that is, he is exploiting the situation to increase his status, certainly among his own people. elizabeth: when juan guaido is now saying he is now mass massacring people. there is some indication for them to say to launch such a naive endeavor, there may be some weakness on the part of the military moving away from nicolas maduro to even think they could venture out and do this? >> well, i think they read the signs wrong last year. obviously there was no outbreak by the venezuelan army. there was a small protest at one of the bases and some of the senior generals, if you recall that period were supposed to turn against maduro and that could have been the thing for all the cards to fall down and none of that happened. i think this guy, so our

audience should understand, retired major general is in a u.s. prison, has been there for a month as a narcotrafficker. he is allegedly a smuggler of guns and weapons to the colombian farc, which is an acronym for the insurgent "narco" organization trying to depose the government in colombia. listen the cast of characters we have involved in this operation certainly are in question and their military prowess and capability and abilities are certainly in question as well. elizabeth: general jack keane, we always value your insights, your perspective, always terrific. which we thank you for your service. great to see you, general jack keane. >> thank you, liz. elizabeth: same here. republican congresswoman debbie lesko on a new show showing joe biden is losing ground to president trump amid allegations

from former staffer tara reade who says that then senator joe biden sexually assaulted her in the early 90s. we've got this story coming up next. stay right there. need help like never before and wells fargo employees are finding ways to do our part. by helping people stay in their homes, through mortgage payment relief efforts. helping local businesses in their vital role in the american economy. and helping hundreds of local organizations provide food and other critical needs... when you need us, wells fargo is here to help.

♪ elizabeth: let's welcome our next guest republican congresswoman from arizona, debbie lesko. great to see you. tara reade, the former senate staffer who alleges joe biden sexually assaulted her 27 years ago, says she filed a limited report with the congressional personnel office that did not explicitly accuse biden ever sexual assault or harrassment. because she said she was too scared. xi chickened out. this is time of bob packwood. this is a time of ted kennedy.

chris dodd, the accusations against them. the atmosphere in washington in the early '90s where critics, i read it, analysts say it was open season on harassing women back then. women were scared. you're reaction to the blow back against tara reade now? >> well i think it is uncalled for. and you know, the democrats are such hypocrites when brett kavanaugh was going through nomination hearings, they were ruthless. democrats were ruthless. believe the woman no matter what. as if women, women can tell the truth and women can lie, believe me, and so can men t was ridiculous back then when all of these democrats said you have to believe the woman and they went after brett kavanaugh and it was ruthless. now for them to say, oh, you know, i believe in joe biden and you know, the main street media does the same thing. it is absolutely hypocritical.

nobody knows except those two what actually happened. i think there is a legitimate complaint, needs to be investigated, but you know, we don't know. we cannot say for sure, only those two know for sure, but, boy, the democrats sure are hypocrites. elizabeth: you know, there is, tara reade is one of eight woman that joe biden acted inappropriately around them. we don't know, there could be more beyond that. critics say to your point the troubling hypocrisy media and the movement, but believe all women but not tara read. watch house speaker nancy pelosi, saying she is done with the tara reade story, wants to shut it down. listen to this. >> is this a closed issue and what is your response. >> it is for me. i'm proud to support joe biden

as president. i believe him when he says it didn't happen. i also believe him when he says let them look into the record. that is what they should do. i will not answer this question again. elizabeth: she says she doesn't want to answer it, doesn't want to talk about it anymore, your take. >> of course she doesn't. she is all about politics and all about grabbing power. that is why they went after judge kavanaugh. they didn't want him in there. they knew he was a conservative so they ruthlessly attacked him. it as awful. it backfired on them. now they don't want to talk about it. i believe joe biden. the hypocrisy of these people is just unending. we saw it in the judiciary committee, the impeachment, the russia hoax, they will -- nothing to take out president trump and it is absolutely disgusting. the hypocrisy is unbelievable.

elizabeth: congressman lesko, great to have you on. come back soon. >> thanks very much. i love being on. elizabeth: okay. next up, top republican on the house judiciary jim jordan, he is saying fbi, investigate yourself. answer just how you bungled the whole michael flynn fiasco. he is our guest after the break. stay there. ♪. -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour? -what could be better than being a mo-tour? the real question is... do you mind not being a mo-tour? -i do.

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♪ elizabeth: let's welcome ohio republican jim jordan, ranking member of house judiciary and oversight. great to see you, congressman. your take on these newly revealed fbi documents showing that fbi officials debated whether to, quote, the goal was to get michael flynn to lie so we could prosecute him or get him fired, even for violating the logan act? what was your reaction when you saw it? >> they set up a three-star general. they set up a guy that served our country for over three decades, lieutenant-general michael flynn. take it in context, liz. remember what they did in the summer of 2016. they opened you investigation to then candidate trump. spied on two american citizens

associated with his campaign. used famous dossier, salacious, unverified dossier, jim comey's words, not mine. the does say was false and paid by clinton campaign and christopher steele, the guy who wrote it, told the justice department he was desperate to stop trump. they used it as basis to spy on go individuals. they get into the first few days of the jump administration. they sneak over to the white house. don't do proper protocol. don't notify the white house they're coming over. sneak two agents in there to talk to michael flynn. when did chris way learn about this? why did we find out about the work of bill barr and sidney p.o.w., michael flynn's lawyer? why didn't bill barr send him a letter. we certainty him a letter? why didn't you tell us when you knew about it? one of the agents, went the day,

days into the administration we want to talk to the agent, to find out what took place in that interview. elizabeth: because people are saying, this is not the america we know. this is not east germany. are you now demanding the fbi investigate former fbi director james comey and fbi team's handling of the flynn case? >> well -- elizabeth: sidney powell doesn't think christopher wray is the guy to do it. >> that is what john durham is doing. god bless sidney powell, bill barr and work of john durham. we wouldn't know about the situation of mike flynn if the attorney general doesn't put u.s. attorney jeff jensen in the st. louis area, tasked him to look at the flynn case. so look, that is for john durham. we'll see what happens there but i do think jim comey, the guy who was in charge when all this happened, everything i just described happened, i do think they need to give him a hard look, see what went on there, you're right, liz, think about this. if they can do it to a three-star general, if they can do this to the president of the

united states, imagine what they can do to you and me? imagine what they can do to 750,000 people i get privilege representing in the fourth district of ohio and any of the 330 million people who live in this great country. imagine what they can do. that is why this is so fundamental. why we get to the bottom of it. why we want the documents. why we want the agents to get to mr. flynn. elizabeth: look at timeline, it is astonishing, trump, flynn, comey, and you just look at what happened. the timeline is this. chuck schumer tells rachel maddow, january 23rd, 2017 set of, you mess with the intelligence community they have six ways from sunday to get back at you. then you have comey going to the white house basis saying, we're going to talk to the president, yeah, then, he was just newly-elected trump, in trump tower and talk to him about the steele dossier which has been debunked. then he gets it leaked to the

media. peter strzok, then they will shut the case on michael flynn. they don't have any use for him from the trump russia probe. peter strzok keeps it open, 7th floor, powerful senior management, they set him up without even defense or lawyer present. they cook up a crime. they try to get him to lie without a lawyer present? this is, this is wild stuff. and if they don't investigate it, if the fbi doesn't get to the bottom of it, what happens? >> well, let's hope john durham does. you're right, liz, that 3 1/2 week time period, starting on january 3rd, chuck schumer says on the rachel maddow show, if you mess with the intel community they have six ways from sunday getting back to you. look how they got back at him. the very next day two agents investigating general flynn said we should drop this case, there is nothing there. peter strzok says no, no, hang on, january 4th. peter strzok says hang on, we don't want to drop it, comey,

mccabe, told me not to drop it. two days later, january 6th, meeting you referenced at trump tower. they tried to set up the president of the united states. they briefed him on dossier that was false, briefed him on the clinton campaign. russian disinformation. two weeks later they set up michael flynn. that happens first few weeks of january 2017. that is how bad this was, how egregious this was. you know what else we want? we want the original 30. when they do the interview, they take notes. we want original one. not the one peter strzok changed. so we want to know, where is that original 302? we would like to see that. we would like to talk to again -- elizabeth: say that again. wait, saying that, because peter strzok and lisa page edited the original 302 interview form with michael flynn. >> right. elizabeth: do you think it will say we found nothing, flynn said nothing wrong and then do you think they altered it and amped it up and is that a crime?

>> we don't know what it will say. we haven't seen it. this is something michael flynn's lawyer, general flynn's lawyer sidney powell is trying to get access to as well but we want to see that original document, we want to see how it was changed. we referenced the text message between peter strzok and lisa page where peter strzok said we changed it. tried to keep it in the agents voice. we think that is mr. pianca. we want to talk to him as well. we want to interview individual and original document and that is couple things we asked for in the letter we sent to director wray earlier this week. elizabeth: then susan rice unusual email saying everything under the obama administration was done quote, by the book. your final word own that. >> i mean look, that was the day who they were leaving. who knows why xi did it. that looks suspect, remember susan rice, this is the same individual, i was on benghazi select committee. this is the same individual who went on sunday show lied to american people five different times on five different sunday

shows, tried to blame the benghazi attack on a video. it was a planned attack t wasn't a protest. it wasn't because of some video t was a planned attack by a terrorist group. that is the suzanne rise put that email together. we want facts if this can happen to the general and president, it can happen to us. elizabeth: got to go. congressman, great to see you, come back soon. >> thank you. elizabeth: hope you have a good evening. come back tomorrow night, we've got more show. a whole lot of news coming tomorrow night as well. stay with us tomorrow night. that does it for us. thanks for joining us. ♪ h

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