be back next week with more in-depth interviews right here on "the wall street journal at large." thank you very much for joining us. ♪ ♪ jack: welcome to "barron's roundtable" where we get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead. i'm jack otter. we begin with what we think are the three most important thing investors should be thinking about right now. stocks stumbled on reports of a rise in covid-19 hospitalizations. what's changed, what hasn't and what to expect next. it's been a tough year so far for dividend investors as struggling companies cut or eliminate payouts. which companies can still deliver. and the state of housing, what's changed for buyers and sellers since the pandemic began. on the round table the, my

colleagues. it was a mostly ugly week for the market, and it ended really strongly. it's kind of schizophrenic. what's going on? >> well, the market was due for a fall after having the kind of rally it did, and it finally got an excuse this week when covid hospitalizations started rising. it's not in places like new york that have been hot spots before, but in places where it really hadn't been like texas and arizona. and that kind of freaked the market out because if there has to be shutdowns around the country at different places, it means that the economy can't come back as quickly as people thought. and this became a big risk. and with positioning extended the way it was, it was just the perfect rest -- recipe e for a selloff. jack: any idea why we had that nice bounce on friday? it was oversold going into friday morning? >> i think that's a big part of it. there really wasn't any news out there to make it go one way or the other.

one of the things that might have been overlooked in the selloff on thursday is that there was actually some good news about treatments for covid. and there is these things occupant there that, you know, there's an interpray between it all -- interplay. so maybe after such a big drop, we had the support hold in the s&p 500, some good news might have been missed. jack: ben, you tell us, what is the market going to do next? are you optimistic this bounce foreshadows a good week coming up? >> i'd like to hope so. i think what we have to see, again, i've talked about this before, is this market has been a big boost from the fed, it's gotten a big boost from fiscal stimulus, but now we need to see the economic data follow it. and we got that with the payroll, but we're going to start seeing more data coming in. we're going to start seeing retail sales is coming out next week, and i think we really need to see how the consumer is responding, are they a starting to spend more. and if they do, i think the market can go higher. but if we do start seeing covid

spread more, if consumers start to really rein it in, there could be big problems for this market. jack: interestingly, we could have that bad news is good news phenomenon where by spreading more broadly across the country, you might find more people in congress interested in stimulus again. which could give a boost to the market. [inaudible conversations] jack: go ahead. >> that's right. there's been worry es that the payroll number took stimulus off the a table, but i think as you see some of this spread to more states, it's becoming more of a national problem, maybe that makes it easier to get a deal done. jack: carlton, normally dividend stocks are the safe haven, but it's been kind of a mixed bag recently. the barron's cover story this week tries to separate the winners from the losers. >> mixed bag is, i think, the perfect way to put it. you know, it's been a really tough time to be an income investor. overnight companies largely had to shut down revenue calls, and

with that dividends are going to be at risk. in fact, as of last week there were 60 companies in the s&p 500 that had either cut or suspend their dividends. and, you know, even as we open, there's going to be some of those sectors that are going to stay under pressure. you're going to have to wonder about the safety of their dividends, at least at that same rate going with forward. so in our cover story, we looked at some of the dividends that look to be safer. and there aren't many surprises here. you're kind of looking at things that have done reasonably well, health care, tech, consumer staples. so johnson & johnson, procter & gamble, texas instruments, roche holdings, next air energy and mcdon's. and looking at -- mcdonald's. some are even in the position to raise their dividend during this time. procter & gamble is one that certainly can. jack: i know you looked into bank stocks specifically.

i want to get to jack, but real briefly, can they actually afford? do they have the money to pay those dividends? >> when you look at the larger banks, the ones that get their income from a variety of sources, they do -- largely they do look like they can cover their dividends from earnings. broadly speaking when you're looking at the larger banks, most of the dividends so far look safe. jack: so so those low interest rates are hurting banks but helping home buyers. jack, you'd think this would be a great market to be looking for a house, but you say it's really a seller's market. >> yeah. if you live in a small town especially and you've been thinking about selling, i wouldn't wait. slap a coat of paint on that thing, get out there and charge someone from a big city too much money for it. i spoke this past week with the ceo of red fin, a big online broker. he tells me we're set up this summer for the mother of all bidding war seasons in outlying areas. his data shows people moving out of the city.

we also have mortgage rates near record low, and no supply. in the pandemic, people aren't listing, banks haven't been foreclosing, so there's no supply. sellers are getting the prices they want. you need multiple zoom rooms. make sure you're showing buyers good zoom rooms. i've got a plant looks like it could fall over, i've got a picture of manhattan, looks like some kind of lumbar spine industry. show people a better zoom room than this, you'll get a better price. jack: and this is benefiting stock. >> yeah. the stock's up more than 50% this year. the company really specializes this things like virtual tours and, you know, friction-free transactions online, and investor perceive it as a company that is positioned to do well in this environment. they have a tiny market share, highly fragmented industry, but they're growing very quickly. jack: i guess we could sit home and do real estate too.

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so that can be employees that need to connect to applications to be productive in their work or our customers' customers that can log in very easily to our customers' web sites and mobile apps. jack: is so when my company roll it out a couple years ago, i thought, oh, great, another password to learn are. but then i found out i had to know fewer passwords because i see all of our various applications whether it's black or getting on barron's, whatever, it's all sitting this. so out occurs to me that that gives you a nice perch from which to see what companies are rolling out. you know, you can tell which technologies are in favor. what could you tell investors, trends we should all be watching? >> yeah. it's an important position because we can really provide that information back to our customers to have them make better technology decisions. so one thing that's really interesting we've seen recently with covid-19 is that of course there was a spike in video conferencing technologies like zoom and web-x and others, but

there's also a big groundswell of additional security tools that are being deployed. these are things like sis ecoany connect -- cisco or palo alto's global connect. these are i would call them the second layer of tools that need to be deployed to make work forces very secure. okta integrates all of these, really combines that ease of use for an employee's work force in these working from home times as well as making it highly secure. jack: so with all of us just sitting at home an our laptop, i would think that has got to be a target-rich environment for hackers. they can attack through any of our houses. >> well, it's, you know, it's -- what's happened with technology over the last several years is people want more flexibility. independent of covid-19, they want to be able to work from anywhere they want, to use multiple different types of devices, their phone, their ipad, their work computer, and they want access to everything. to this is a real challenge, and this is why our platform, the

identity cloud, so, is so critical in this world because as you mentioned, we make it very, very easy for workers to get to their applications and services, but also we make it secure. we know who the people are. we know the applications they're supposed to access, the devices which they're supposed to access from, so we give the companies a really good, strong platform to make it all work easily and securely. jack: you made an interesting comment to my colleague jack howe where you said anyone running a business had better focus on becoming the amazon of their industry or else amazon might become the amazon of their industry. what did you mean by that? >> well, you know, it's not just -- the big transition we're going through in the world isn't from a technology perspective, it's not just cloud, not just companies using things that are hosted in the cloud versus their own software and hardware. there's another very important -- relate but distinct trend, and that is every industry is being digitized. it's being moved online.

it's being moved to devices, and in our consumer labs we see this all the time, but it's happening to every company. every company has to connect directly and in a digital way with a web site or a mobile app to their customers, and it's a huge transition. and there's upstarts, whether it's amazon or others, that are focused on this digital economy and making sure that they want to be the best at that. jack: so you're clearly part of that movement in helping them do that, and that has benefited your stock and other people quite immensely. if i'm doing the mast right, your company's now selling at 37 times sales, so people like me with maybe a y'all value bent start to wonder are things getting frothy in can you grow into that kind of valuation in. >> one thing is clear that if you look ott -- out phi or ten years from now, this movement to the cloud and this movement to every company becoming a technology company and transforming to connect to customers and their entire

ecosystem with technology is unscalable. that is the trend of the future. and we're still relatively early. if you look at the global enterprise software market, depending on how you crunch the numbers, it's less than 20% have moved to the cloud. so we have a opportunity of room to run as an industry toward an inevitable future. and so i think investors are very excited about that opportunity and so are we at of course ca. jack: yeah. it is amazing. it'll be incredible to see where these things go. todd mckinnon, thanks very much. >> thank you for having me. jack: coming up, aerial investments founder john rogers on what companies can do to address inequality. we'll also talk stocks, that's next. ♪ ♪ when you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. but when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place.

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♪ ♪ jack: veteran value investor john rogers has recently found himself playing two important roles. chairman and co-ceo of chicago-based ariel investments, but he's also an african-american ceo at a time of you are turmoil in our natio. john, you and i have talked about value stock over the years, but there is another consideration going on in the country right now,° conversation, and you have been outspoken in putting the killing of george floyd into historical context. what should the nation and the business community take away from this episode? >> i think the business community needs to understand that the african-american community has been experiencing a widening wealth gap over the last 40 years or so. it's just getting worse and worse. the data just crystal clear that the wealth gap's getting larger and larger. and it helps to cause all the other crises that we're facing; poor health care, poor education, poor housing, poor

retirement plans because of this. so we need to, as corporate america, figure out how to work hard to make sure that african-americans are fully engaged, have equal wealth. the frustration that has been boiling over. jack: i do want to pivot to the market. you're a veteran value investor at a teem when growth stocks -- time when growth stocks have been dominating for years. it's not easy to be in the value investor shoes. has the recent, you know, perking up of value stocks suggest that maybe we're on the eventual of that turn -- on the verge of that turn everyone's been waiting for? >> i think we are on the verge of the turn. it's lasted so much longer than we could have imagined. this has been the greatest disparity between value performance and growth performance. i think when it turns and continues to turn, it's going to turn with a vengeance, and it's going to be a real opportunity

for value investors to truly shine. the valuations are there, many, many, many bargains, and interest rates start to climb and the economy recovers, it'll be good for value stocks. jack: we want to ask you about some of your picks. carlton, i know, has one for you. >> thanks for joining us, john. dental offices are reopening, i witnessed that firsthand this week. but i understand that there's a supplier that you interested in -- you're interested in right now. i'm curious if you could tell the us about what you're seeing within vista. >> well, thank you. it's funny, i was at my dentist's office this morning, and we were talking about it. she was talking about the fact that she uses a lot of their products like kerr, which is one of their key, key products. people have started coming back to dental offices, getting all those repairs needed, implants are coming back, and now it's just this is a necessary part of our society. we have to have great industry, we have to get back to dental

offices, and in vista's one of the largest makers in the world, really well positioned. >> hey, john, it's jack howe. i know you're bullish on mattel, which i find encouraging. i can't get my kids off their screens. there's an actual real world out there in toys, you can play with actual thing you can touch. what do you like so much about the outlook for mattel here? >> well, first and foremost, they have the right ceo. inan has come on, understands a lot about intellectual property, understands a lot about how to make sure you keep the costs low are. he's created a manufacturing light model getting rid of a lot of the traditional manufacturing plants mattel was known for. so he's cut an enormous amount of cost. and now he's going to benefit from these great brands, you know, barbie, hot wheels, american girl. you'll just see so many great products there to be taken advantage of.

and not only for kids to be able to buy those toys, but ultimately see them in movies and have all those ties and connections that we think will create an enormous amount of value for mattel's stock. >> hi, john, this is ben levisohn. the media's been having a hard time, but what's going on there? >> media advertising got crushed during the pandemic. each though people were watching television and the ratings were going up sky high, people were uncomfortable advertising in this difficult, difficult difficult market. but we realize that as the economy comes back, as sports come back -- which is really critically important for local television stations -- not only will the ratings go up, but the advertising revenue will start to come back. tegna's selling around six times earnings, it's extraordinarily well managed, extraordinarily cheap, and we think the icing on the cake, of course, the political advertising is going to be greater than ever is, not

only the presidential races, but lots and lots of senate races are going to be highly contested in this environment, and t everything gna will benefit from that. jack: john rogers, you sound really good for a guy who went to the dentist this morning. it must not have been too painful if -- a visit. [laughter] thanks so much for joining us. >> good to be here. jack: up next, round table members give their investment ideas for the coming week. stay right there. ♪ ♪ in my line of work,

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♪ muck♪ jack: so, jack, there's something called the greater fool theory, the idea that you're going to buy an overpriced asset so you can sell it to somebody for even more,

and a judge has just said, go ahead, buy stock in a bankrupt company. >> yeah. i mean, if billy button filed for an initial public offering, that would be a better deal for investors. this is a company that's in bankruptcy proceeding, it has loads of debt. you'd think the stock would have little to no value, but what's happened is that day traders with, you know, $500 a apiece in their robin hood accounts are out there playing stock market chicken with each other and bidding up the shares. bond hold efforts come along they say, wait a second, a bull market here, let's issue more dumb. that's what they're trying to do, and a judge just said, you know what in you've got my blessing if you can get away with it. i want investors to stay away from participating in this deal, but i want them to watch the deal carefully. if it goes off smoothly, that is the stock market lean aring over and whispering in your ear that

it may be time to raise a little cash. jack: so avoid hertz but, karltop, you think home depot might look interesting right here. >> yeah. home depot is a stay at home play and a reopening play. even i shopped at how many depot -- home depot. the dividend looks safe, yeelding a little more than 2%, so looking at home depot this week. jack: and speaking of lockdown, ben, people can just back up the suv and pick up enough pasta for the extended family at olive garden. >> that's right. i like darden right here. the stock's town 30% this year, but if reopening can keep happening, the stock's going to go up. it has a solid balance sheet to protect it. looks pretty decent. jack: thank for those ideas. carlton and wen, jack, thanks for that advice. to read america check out this we can's edition at barron's.com and don't forget to follow us on

twitter. that is all for us. wear your masks, be healthy, and we'll see you next week on barron's round table. ♪ ♪ >> from the fox studio in new york city, this is "maria bartiromo's wall street". >> happy weekend everybody, welcome to the program that helps position you for the weekend ahead. joining me coming up in just a few moments white house trait advisor peter navarro is here to talk about the economic impact of the riots as well as the pandemic and the need to bring the supply train back to the united states post-covid-19. but first the federal reserve painted a tough picture of the economy as jay powell said interest rates will remain near 0 until at least 2022. >> my