jack: great ideas. fascinating, as always. to roadway more, check out this week's edition of barron's.com. don't forget to follow us on twitter. that is all for us. be healthy, wear your masks. ♪ >> from the fox studios in new york city, this is maria bartiromo's "wall street." maria: and happy weekend, everyone. welcome to the program that analyzes the week that was and helps position you for the week ahead. i'm maria bartiromo. thanks so much for joining us this weekend. coming up, allianz chief economic adviser mohamed al-arian to discuss his op-ed on the u.s./china rivalry. later, my one-on-one with florida senator marco rubio on the closing of the chinese consulate in houston this week along with the stimulus package, the next relief. "the wall street journal"'s ted mann is also here to talk about his new book that chronicles the

rise and fall of general electric, a corporate titan. all that coming up. but first, let's take a look back at some of the week's big moments and the top news item makers on "mornings with maria." here's this week's edition of "talkers." republican aides say a two month extension of the unemployment aid expansion is being considered. do you want to see that? >> no. the white house is not there yet. the president's not there yet. we know this expiration, we suggest that we make a deal. maria: what's your take on a middle ground in terms of the federal unemployment benefits right now? >> with respect to the $600 a week benefit, that wassing? extraordinary that was done back in march. it was important when we were closing our economy. maria: do you have a sense of what industry you are, you're looking toward? >> so we're looking for what we call the super-durable growth company, a business that can grow for a very long period of

time, very high barriers to entry, it's difficult to compete with. we're looking for the great, you know, long-term hold. maria: what's your take on chicago and this reaction to having federal help? >> chicago needs help. chicago's in trouble. we had 14 people shot in front of a funeral the other day. maria: what can the federal government do about this? >> well, the president is right, it's anarchy. and we're not talking about the peaceful protesters. we're talking about those individuals who have hijacked these peaceful protests, and they're criminals. maria: what do you make and what can we understand about this closure of the houston consulate? >> they're spying, they're stealing, all the things that they're doing. i'm guessing -- and i haven't been briefed on this because it just happened in the last 24 hours -- that something bad was happening by chinese operatives in the houston area. maria: reopening the economy with covid-19 infections on the rise across the country, the white house and capitol hill are working on another round of

stimulus to stave off potential shutdown and the continuation of recovery. joining me right now is to discuss is mohamed el-erian. mohamed, it is great to have you, thanks so much for being here. >> thank you, maria. maria: assess where we are, mohamed. i want to talk about what's being talked about in washington in terms of this next relief package. of course, the president has been real vocal about wanting a payroll tax holiday. that is being met with some debate but, certainly, we do have money for schools that they have agreed upon, and they're having trouble agreeing on this liability protection. what do you think the next round of stimulus should look to like given where we are in this economy? >> so this is a very tricky moment, and i sympathize with those trying to design employment response. it's tricky because we are flattening out. we're getting indicators that the economy is stalling because of renewed health concerns.

so so an optimal package -- and i want to start what an optimal package looks like -- has four components; relief for those who once again are losing their jobs, expenditure to make living with covid, this period we're going through until we get a vaccine more healthy and more economically vibrant, the third set of measures to counter long-term pressures on productivity and then a fourth set of measures to counter rising household economic insecurity. that's a lot for congress to do. so i suspect that we will focus on the first two elements, and we have to find a way to provide relief in a more focused and to-workmanner -- -- pro-workmanner. maria: and we are going to be living with this for a while. we are going to have to adapt. but the unemployment benefits,

that $600 a week, goes away july 31. they are now agreeing to do a short-term extension of that. you know, the issue here as you know is that people, some people, are making more money just to stay home than they would be working on the job, and that's making them not want to go back to work. so how do you open an economy when you've got one of the policies actually encouraging the shutdown? >> so the answer was easier before we had an increase again in cases, hospitalizations and deaths. at that point the answer is don't make it practical for people to stay home. now it's trickier, maria, because things are shutting down again in certain states. so this is not about people's willingness to work, this is about people's ability to work. i suspect we're going to end up with something additional. it won't be $600. i suspect it'll be less than that because we've learned that -- 600 does -- $600 does

make it harder for people to go back. but people do need relief right now. maria: let me talk a little about your op-ed and the news on china. this week, of course, the economic cold war, whatever you want to call it, definitely stepped up given the houston consulate that is going to be closing this weekend as well as a new worry about the san francisco consulate. you write in your op-ed that we're looking at right now the rivalry partnership possibly. is it possible to have a partnership in the middle of all of this? >> not for now. as the op-ed points out, the next few years. this is not an issue of weeks or months. the next few years are going to be character used by more decoupling between china and the u.s. that's going to be part of a bigger process of gradual deglobal. and it's going to be -- degloballization. and it's going to be driven by

more than governments. it's not just about tension between the u.s. and chinese governments. we're going to see u.s. companies localize their production chains, pull them out of china, get them closer to the u.s. we're going to see households push back against this notion of having competition from china because unemployment's not coming down quickly. and we're going to put a lot of pressure like we did with the u.k. on what i call countries that want to play both sides to make difficult decisions. so this is a process of decoupling. this is a process of degloballization. the hope is that you can continue to operate on key issues like pandemics, like climate change. but i think it's going to be really truckee in the next couple of -- tricky in the next couple of years to stop this decoupling. maria: what's your take on chinese companies that are trading on u.s. exchanges, mohamed? we're going to speak with senator marco rubio coming up, and this past week he

withdrawsically called for -- basically called for companies to be barred from american exchanges. he's pressing the white house to take a hard line as it ramps up pressure on china. you know that these companies do not follow sarbanes-oxley. they really get a pass. they've traded on the near stock exchange and nasdaq, and they don't have to tell us the true story of their quarterly earnings the way every other company does. should they be on these exchanges if they don't follow the rules of america? >> yeah, i think we've gotten to a point where we are saying enough is enough. enough is enough in terms of intellectual property theft, enough is enough in terms of an unequal, unlevel playing field in the way companies are created. and this is another enough is enough. and i i think that people have to realize that we have crossed that line, that the tolerance that the u.s. was showing earlier is gone. and for good reason.

the assumption was give china time, and they will adhere to global standards. and what has materialized is much less than that. maria: mohamed, obviously, we'll keep following it, and we enjoyed your op-ed. thank you very much for being here. >> it's always a pleasure, maria. maria: stay with us, my one-on-one with florida senator marco rubio up next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ usaa is made for what's next we're helping members catch up by spreading any missed usaa insurance payments over the next twelve months so they can keep more cash in your pockets for when it matters most find out more at usaa.com

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of the central node of a massive spy operation, defense espionage, also influence agents to try to influence congress, you know, they use businessmen as fronts in many cases to try to influence political leaders at the state and local level, and it's long overdue that it'll be closed. the secretary of state probably already has the ambassador basically called him in, told him we're going to do this, told them why. given their agents, we know who they are, 72 hours to leave the country. if they don't leave, they'll be arrested as spies. and then the what'll happen is they'll, you know, you'll see this all the time, every country does it e when your embassy or consulate is closed, they start destroying everything in there. they have a plan of destruction, so for us, the marines are in charge of doing that if someone closes our embassy. so they'll destroy computers and red documents. the chinese will respond, they'll close one of our facilities somewhere in china,

probably wuhan, as you've outlined. maria: well, it's unbelievable. we have been talking about this now for years, and during the president's talks, the trade talks with chinese officials, they kept going back and forth saying we want the ip theft stopped, but the chinese officials would not agree to it. what is this, a strategy? in fact as a strategy to grow for china? >> yeah, absolutely. now, look, they're also investing billions of dollars in these industries. they are trying to become an industrial power on par or greater than the united states, particularly in the new industries that'll dominate the 21st century. but in addition to that, they steal our secrets. and so you can imagine, for example, you talked earlier in the program about vaccines. so we are investing billions of taxpayer dollars in this race for a vaccine, so the taxpayers sort of create the baseline for it, and these guys get to come in and steal it and, for free, sort of start their research from that point forward. it just can't continue. so we've seen this over and over again whether it's forced

intellectual property transfers, whether they come in through a front company and buy an innovative american company and steal secrets that way or, in this case, they just hack into a computer. they're very aggressive about it, and it is not a small part of the advances they have made to this point. many of the great, big leaps they've made in technology are the result of them stealing it from us or someone else. maria: unbelievable. and you mentioned that hacker situation. the u.s. is accusing these two former e engineering students, they're students, for allegedly hacking computers and stealing the trade secrets. now for more than a decade. the hackers stole for both profit for themselves as well as for the chinese intelligence. recently targeted firms involved in covid-19 vaccine research. >> for the better part of two years, i've been part of this road show along with the fbi and homeland security meaning we've brought in academia, the chamber of commerce, telecommunication companies, the rural electric can and telecommunication

companies and read them all into this threat. and you're right. look, there's still resistance out there because you've got companies that have built their entire business model around doing business with china. we are nowhere near where we need to be yet in terms of being aware of this net and addressing it, but we have certainly come a long way. maria: my thanks to senator rubio. don't go anywhere, ted mann is here to talk about his new book geico's been helping people save money for over 75 years. they've really stood the test of time. much like these majestic rocky mountains. which must be named after the... that would be rocky the flying squirrel, mr. gecko sir. obviously! ahh come on bullwinkle, they're named after... our first president george rockington! that doesn't even make any sense... mr... uhh... winkle.

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♪ ♪ maria: well, the fall of a massive corporate titan at the height of its power. general electric was the country's most valuable company worth nearly $600 billion. twenty years later, ge is worth a little more than a tenth of that. getting the boot from the dow 30

two years ago, wall street reporter ted mann who covered the fall authored the book, "lights out." ted mann from the "wall street journal," great to have you here. thanks very much for being here this weekend. >> thanks for having me. maria: congratulations on the book, ted. it's a great read. i love corporate stories, and this is really an important one because ge was such an important company not just for the employees and for the market, but really for mom and pop. when you had stock in ge, you felt like it was in the bank, it was safe. can you walk us through what went wrong, ted? >> sure. it's a complicated story, but you're right, it was a stock that many mom and pop investors held for many years. it was a stock you had to hold in any portfolio because of its breadth and essentially functioning almost like a proxy for the whole economy. what happened over the last

several years was an attempt to transform ge under jeff immelt that really went awry. and one of the things they were trying to do was to break a reliance on their financial services business which had almost taken the company under during the financial crisis and really since 2008 large investors were not going to ever be comfortable with again. they were never going to treat an industrial company that needed to rely so heavily on financial services and lending like the solid thing it had once seemed to be. so in trying to break their resistance on financial services, they also went out and made a giant industrial acquisition, the purchase of most of of alson. the market for that equipment was diving off a cliff. so the combination of those two things and then the mismanagement that eventually

was revealed within ge i's power business -- ge's power business itself where a lot of the profits that had looked so solid to investors turned out to herbally be just there -- essentially be just there on paper, and you had the business at the heart of this corporation essentially running out of cash at the worst possible time. and the result of all of those things happening, you know, really within quick succession was just a devastating blow to the company itself. maria: you know, you make a lot of important points. the acquisition, i remember hearing jeff immelt talk about it, and he would joke that he had to deal with the french government, and it was so bureaucratic e, and that was one of the issues there. on the ge capital situation, there were a lot of complaints from investors and analysts that it was a black box, that we didn't really know what the true earnings story was in ge capital. but that's, putting that aside, there were other things that he got rid of as well, right in implement did.

he changed the face of this company. he wanted to change the motto, we bring good things to light. so he really went down into all areas of ge to, what, refresh it? was that the goal? >> i think that's, i think that was part of it certainly on the advertising taglines. he wanted something new and fresh and different. immelt's defenders and immelt himself, i think, would also point out that there were things in the company that he inherited that needed to change, and there were business lines that, frankly, investors didn't particularly love and that he wanted to get out of, some of the older commoditized businesses like appliances and lighting. so in many respects, he was trying to show that this old model, this conglomerate model could be refreshed and updated and could continue to be the essential corporation and essential stock that it had been, and i think that in some respects he succeeded. this were a lot of acquisitions

in the aviation business, for instance, and that remains a leading jet engine business. but there are other decisions that don't look very good in hindsight. maria: so i guess it was the financial crisis that really got in the way of what had been a partnership and a great friendship between jack welch and jeff immelt. jack chose jeff to be the ceo, and then i guess later regretted it. i want to say that the other day when you were on with me for "mornings with maria," i said jack wanted to take jeff's name off the leadership building. i got a call from jeff's representative who said, no, no, jack's name still on that leadership building. i can you now, is it wrong to say that jeff wanted to un-jack ge at some point, and was it because of the upset over the financial crisis and how the stock plummeted during that time in. >> well, i guess the public relationship between them obviously changed during the

financial crisis. ge missed a target, and welch criticized immelt on television pretty bluntly. and immelt then went on to utter this remark in a public forum which i believe is disputed by his representatives, something along the lines of a german shepard could have managed this company back when jack welch was running it because the economy was so hot in the '90s. so, obviously, there was a bit of a blow-up between them then. in the later years, really welch mostly kept his mouth shut in public about how immelt was doing, but there was a lot of background resentment about the sluggish performance of the company. maria: ted, it's great to see you this weekend. thanks so much. congrats on the book. >> thank you. maria: it is a great read. check it out. ted mann, "lights out." don't go anywhere, more "wall street" right after this. ♪

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maria: welcome back. coming up next weekend on the program, don't forget to join us, 9 p.m. eastern friday night, we'll talk with blackrock cio rick reider, my special guest. we want to get into rock bottom interest rates and the impact on your money. next weekend, right here. and this weekend on "sunday morning futures," fox news channel, live at 10 a.m. eastern, i'll be talking with congressman devin nuñes along with ray dalio, my special guest this weekend. 10 a.m. eastern on sunday morning over on fox news. meanwhile, right here on fox business, start smart every weekday, 6-9 a.m. eastern for

"mornings with maria" on fox business. we are live every morning, and we hope you'll be with us. that'll do it for us for this weekend. thanks so much for joining us. i will see you again next i will see you again next own your tomorrow. ♪ ♪ >> we're going to look first live at selma, alabama, as we remember a civil rights icon, john lewis, known as the conscience of congress. this is the alabama ground where he first faced one of his most dangerous confrontations in america's struggle for freedom for everyone. this is the edmund pettis bridge which you've heard so much about in the last week since lewis passed. i'm harris faulkner, honored to be wit