we have microsoft at 1.6 trillion. amazon, 1.6 trillion. facebook, a mere $762 million. and we have alibaba, the chinese amazon,hundred billion dollars. apple, way out front. all right. my time's up. but, neil, sir, it is yours. neil: it is amazing, stuart, if you think about it, it took 38 years for apple to hit a trillion dollar market cap, right? less than two years to get to two trillion. remarkable. you're a hard act to follow, my friend. we'll do our best. we're following the apple drama, the world's first two trillion dollar company. i do want to let you in on news regarding the u.s.-china trade deal. you know that is on again, off again. we ignore each other. shout at each other. apparently right now we're learning that the two sides plan to discuss by video in the coming days about fulfilling the

basic terms of the phase one part of that deal. that is coming from "the wall street journal," among other sources saying that the deal is not a finished or kaput deal at all. so we'll see how the market responds to that. some mild positive reaction to all of that. the s&p in record territory. the nasdaq in record territory. both hit records yesterday. any gain today is a record. we're following a couple of other developments. we'll pursue it with the tiktok head of u.s. policy on this giant move right now to find alternatives to how tiktok ultimately is or even if it will be sold off or kicking the company's tires. the president intrigued by that. he said he would support an oracle move. he said a couple weeks ago he said he would support a microsoft move for the company. we'll speak to the novavax ceo on the latest vaccine trials. if you had gotten into this stock by the way at the beginning of the year, you would be up more than 2,000% but who's

counting. day three of the democratic convention. we're on all of those developments. it will be a star-studded cast today, kamala harris, the first black woman of asian descent will be on the dais including other headliners like barack obama. hillary vaughn to outline what is at stake and who is at stake. reporter: neil, kamala harris will be the make history the first black asian women to become a vp nominee. harris and biden did the first joint interview together with "people" magazine as a ticket. we got more details as harris' first day as running mate. she went to his house and they baked chocolate chip cookies. harris played sous chef in the biden house, she told "people" magazine, she will be the vp to

tell when biden is wrong just as many on the debate stage. we have the understanding, the last one in the room there to give him honest feedback. joe biden officially became the democratic nominee for president where he made two surprise live appearances in mostly virtual and pretaped convention. first as the official nominee. second by his wife's jill's side after her keynote address. >> great. how are you? >> [laughter]. >> hey, everyone. i'm jill biden's husband. you can see why she is the love of my life. reporter: we heard from former president bill clinton a surprise being one to speak on behalf of biden because clinton as president very different from biden's today. he signed the 1994 crime bill into law. biden said it is one of the biggest mistakes of his political career. it led to the mass incarceration

of his political career. because of how many manufacturing jobs in battleground states that were shipped overseas. >> we are the only major industrial economy to have its unemployment rate triple. now you have to decide whether to renew his contract or hire someone else? reporter: what is interesting because clinton in a lot of ways represents the joe biden of the past. one joe biden is trying to run away from because he supported policies that are a major turnoff today to progressives in his party. neil? neil: yeah. almost everyone of those deals orchestrated by bill clinton repudiated by progressives today. hillary vaughn, thank you very, very much. the administration is not just sort of standing idly by. today vice president pence will be in wisconsin as the president was less than 48 hours ago. in those battleground states, that is still the strategy.

go ahead make them priority no matter what the democrats do in the meantime. mike tobin following all of that from wisconsin. hey, mike. reporter: neil that old tradition of taking a down week, remaining quiet while the opposing party has their convention, that is being disregarded across the board here. the trump campaign is not giving democrat as single day without opposition. mike pence should land on air force two in janesville, wisconsin any minute. that is the former hometown of house speaker paul ryan. he will speak near the border to speak at oem metal fabricators. the subject of his talk is failure of joe biden to put americans to work. president trump came to oshkosh rally limited to 500 people and one day after eric trump came to milwaukee. bikers for trump same group rallyied in sturgis when they

came under fire. they want to support trump, support police. they're not too worried about the virus. democrats say the republicans are irresponsible holding the events, only serve to president's ego. the democrats are making a point of staying remote during the convention. neil: i want the read fair and balanced, noelle nikpour, republican fund-raiser. we have laura fincke a democratic strategist. end with you. begin with you. ratings are down. i get what a lot of democrats are saying there is obviously other chances, i just spilled something here, i apologize, that look at social media play. i think i heard a number to the effect that more people have watched mesh michelle obama speech in the afterlife on social media than watched it live on tv. is that the push here? it is not about ratings? it is about how this sticks

particularly with young people? could you explain that? >> i think it's a great point, neil. it is about the virality of the different people nominating joe biden, talking about his character. talking about the positive qualities that a lot of people may not know because he is best known as obama's number two. and so i think that, that center stage in the form of speeches like michelle obama's mic drop moments as she addressed the nation called on better angels in this time of national crisis. so, yes it is about sharing that content. it is about re redeploying it afterward. this is about making it last, generate the enthusiasm of traditional campaigns and conventions also look for. neil: if that is the case, i have no preen to doubt, laura is lot younger, very hip with this stuff that i'm not, but should republicans focus on that? should republicans you know,

ludites like me are focused, what are the ratings, not as strong as they were, what if we're missing something here panning this convention on the basis of a new reality, that republicans would be wise to see beneath that, might be a valuable audience that can be addressed on social media? what do you think? >> well, neil, i tell you what, you know, as luck would have it the democrat convention was before ours. so we can actually see what works and what doesn't work. they were kind of, you know, doing a test pilot so to speak on this virtual convention which we have never had a virtual convention. so i think going forward the republicans kind of have a little bit of a leg up. as luck would have it, seeing kind of what worked and what didn't. i heard a lot of people criticize what is going on right now because they said it was like a virtual telethon. it was like a star-studded event.

while michelle obama's speech got a lot of attention. a lot of people wanted to hear what she was going to say -- [inaudible]. republicans have a woman that is a shining star. nikki haley. neil: we're having audio difficulties with you. hopefully we'll fix them. hopefully the glass of water i spilt didn't spill on but it might v. laura, i thought was kind of neat, i can kind of see what noelle was getting at. it was boring. i like the roll call of states. going to each and every state. republicans might be wise to seize on that. the fact of the matter virtual is virtual. not in person. not the same liveliness because it is not live for a lot of times. i'm wondering whether that means neither candidate gets the proverbial bounce they hope to get out of the convention? what do you think?

>> let me be simple to make a couple of predictions. right now the water mark where joe biden polling is unlikely to get a convention bump. what is he looking to get enthusiasm factor up. one of the few areas trump has advantage in terms of voters enthusiastic that is what i was talking about before, introducing joe biden, empathy for amtrak workers, going every day back and forth on the train as senator. connection to the families because of the loss he has seen in his own life. it is establishing joe biden and expressing that view whether online or in person or in conversation later. so i think that is has a very purpose, maybe marrower we've seen in the past because of the contact you're talking about, limitations of online anything but i do think you are going to see, we've seen it with kamala harris. 52% approval rating that introduction went up well to the

lead-up into the convention. this will solidify her as joe biden's partner moving forward. i don't know that you will see a traditional polling become. republican get one and trump's numbers are pretty low and he has to go somewhere. i don't think it's a total loss. it was a win for democrats. has been a win so far to really introduce joe biden, not just be anti-trump. neil: we'll see how it sorts out. ladyies thank you very much. i want to go to john paul dejoria democrats are targeting at the convention to pay up. we'll get to that in a second, john paul. so good to see you. this notion for joe biden the big night is tomorrow night when he speaks to the nation in the roll of the democratic nominee for president of the united states. now, the administration has gone to great lengths to depict him as all but mr. magoo. that he lost his fastball.

that he is not very good. you know, not as sharp as he was, all of that. so have they actually created such low expectations that he can only benefit? >> well, i look at it this way. it is the united states of america and we have the opportunity, anybody at any age to run for president. i am 76 years old and i can do things i can do when i was 20 years old. i kind of disregard that i think what people should look at, what is going to come out of it, not just what all the promises are. now this man has some challenges, difficulties, people might think, will we voting for kamala harris to be our next president? depend how people feel. what people should remember this is america. we should salute freedom no matter who they are, we have the right to vote for one other the other. we have the opportunity. i think where republicans should be going, by the way i'm a total independent. i go republican, i go democrat

or whoever i think is best i think they should go do truthful things with america. here is what is really going on. here is what we did and not just promise. what we like to see as end result for america. if we don't do it year or two, impeach us. if we don't do this, this, impeach us. come across honestly regardless what joe or kamala says. come across honest with the people. another suggestion you don't have to put people down to come across honestly. bring out the facts. neil: one of the facts the democrats widening gap between the rich and the poor. >> yes. neil: that is because the rich looked after themselves but no one looked after those who are not rich. they want to rectify that by first taxing guys like you. in california for example, they're so far to push a wealth tax. not just what you make but how

much you're worth. that is resonating with average voters. what do you think of that? >> it would destroy america totally. i was homeless 40 years ago. i went from homeless to being very wealthy. i believe in the american dream. and even though i was sleeping in my car, i never gave up. when you were in the 50s, if you were millionaire, similar to being a billionaire today. you want to take that away from the american public? are you kidding? you want to take people successful? don't you know about the giving pledge? 180 billionaires, in america, have pledged 50% of their wealth while we're alive, after we die or combination of the two to change the world, the environment and those in need and we're doing it. i was at home here yesterday in austin, texas. i just flipped the switch for 240 little houses that we put all homeless people into. we wi-fid it rocket. our rocket company. wi-fid the whole little city.

gave them all cell phones. a big percentage of them are people of color and they're homeless. we gave them free wi-fi to call anywhere in the world and free telephones so they can get back into it. i'm not only one. they're are a lot of people made the american dream, started with nothing, and are giving back tremendously. you go ahead and take the american dream -- neil: they want the money now, they want the money now from guys like you. they don't want to wait. forget the money, they want the money, now, now. >> they are getting it now. i paid a tax bill over $700 million to the united states government just a few years ago. every year my tax bills are high. i mean i'm in a higher tax bracket. so we pay a whole lot. you mentioned state of california i used to live in many years ago. if you put the tax in, add a federal tax, people work 60% of the year just for taxes, federal taxes, state taxes. it is not right. the american dream would be hurt. don't do it, guys.

you're talking to get votes. you're not doing it for, how does america last? don't be france where all the people had money left minute socialist government. the government left within a couple years, people said oops, we made a mistake. don't hurt the american dream, guys. it is not right. it is not america. neil: what do the french know? they put an egg on everything. >> love you out there. peace. neil: in the meantime here we've got the latest on novavax. if there are key players very close to a vaccine, novavax would have to be at the top of that list. what it's up to right now and the attention it is garnering worldwide. the read from its ceo next. ♪.

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♪. neil: all right. back to school, not in quite the traditional sense. so many schools and big universities right now are rethinking how they will start things. in the case of notre dame, michigan, pushing things back a couple weeks for in-person classes or virtual amid a spike

in cases among students, many who were big on socializing and partying than realizing ramifications on all of that. grady trimble with more from south bend. grady. reporter: unfortunately neil, that is spoiling it for the rest of the students here. we got new numbers from notre dame. 73 new coronavirus cases since yesterday. that brings the grand total to 222. some of those cases as you mentioned trace back to an off-campus party. so notre dame is responding to this differently than michigan state university and university of north carolina chapel hill. both of those universities are going to all online learning for the rest of the semester. what notre dame is doing, let's go online for a couple weeks. keep students essentially quarantined where they are, to see if we get this thing under control. in response to the reports that students were partying, that contributed to the spread, notre dame defensive lineman

tweeted, really sad how this generation has no self-control. nothing more frustrating people doing things the right way but still suffering from those who don't care. i talked to a student just off campus moments ago who talked about the importance of the next couple weeks for this university. >> so if it is taken seriously i definitely think we can stay on campus for a lot longer. but if it's not, kids are saying we'll go home, right, might as well do whatever we've already been doing, obviously we'll be sent home before the end of the two weeks i think so. reporter: the pandemic created financial challenges for colleges across the country. obviously if enrollment's down, they make less money f they're not getting room and board because they have gone virtual they're not making as much money. a recent survey of college chief business officers, more than 1/3 of them are expecting cuts of some kind of 2020 because of the pandemic. that could include staff cuts,

academic program cuts. notre dame here, neil, athletic programs are continuing to practice with a rigorous testing policy in place. as of right now the football season is set to go on. neil: all right. thank you, my friend, very, very much we'll see how that goes. we'll see if in two weeks they get back to in-person classes. six universities that slated in-person classes started out saying next few weeks it will be virtual. we'll see how that goes. everyone is hunting for a vaccine. usually three or four players garner the most attention. my next guest and kiss company is one of them. novavax has developed unusual technology that focusing on developing antibodies to the virus itself. studies and trials have been very promising. the next step is looking doing the same in south africa. it garnered support from the

united states government, the uk government, a host of other players intrigued what they are coming up with. the ceo of novavax with us. good to have you back. >> thanks for having me. neil: i know it is always, try not to get too focused on wall street getting ahead of itself but rap against your company is that wall street is getting ahead of itself. your stock has zoomed anywhere, i can't even calculate, from 2000 to 3,000% on optimistic progress. warranted progress that does catch people's attention where they are developing these antibodies to fight this but do you look at that, do you feel the pressure of that? you're pretty sober in your forecast and you take it one step at a time but you know, this new pressure where they think you will be first out the gate here, what do you think of that? >> well, i, having stockholders

is critical. we have to have access to capital to do what we're doing, paying attention to the stock price, i have seen it go both ways over my career and so we're not focused on that right now. what we're focused on doing what you said which is executing. we have some great data from the phase one study. got everything we wanted from it. we got very strong neutralizing antibodies. we got it. cells responses from both sides of the immune system, that encourages us, we'll go into five very important clinical trials in the next six weeks, phase two, phase three trials designed, four are designed to show efficacy this year from our vaccine. so as you pointed out we started south africa, a critical country with high rates of infection right now where we should be able to show our vaccine works. we started vaccinating yesterday and we also announced last week

an agreement with the uk government to get into a phase three trial there in the next few weeks. and then of course importantly in the u.s. we have two trials started, a phase two trial the next week or so that will lead to a phase three trial, full efficacy trial with 30,000 people, with the expectation we will start that trial in october. neil: let's get into it a little bit about the robust t-cell response and why that is so important. it goes beyond just the antibody issue. the significance of that is what? >> well unfortunately the significance of it is there is some uncertainty bit, how important it is. every immune noll gift will agree the t-cell side of the immune system is very important. just that the specific contribution to efficacy is never clear but it does a couple

things. one is it allows the immune system to generate more antibody responses but number two it also, t-cells kill infected respiratory cells. so it is an important part. it's not, it's not measured how, what percentage of the effect it is but our vaccine does that. everybody expects that that will have, play an important role in efficacy. neil: the study where you had 100% of healthy volunteers who received your vaccine and developed these, you know, neutral antibodies, i'm wondering were they older? because a lot of your early work wag targeted at those in their 60s. again that is the vulnerable population that could succumb to this virus, and in fact has

globally. can you tell us a little bit about those volunteers who they were, their age, their condition? >> yeah. so it is a great question because we have to get, our vaccine has to work against all age groups, all races, all geographies and so that's what we test but in our first test in 130 people those were age 18 through 59 and we got the antibody and t-cell response we did. we can fall back on an earlier study with influenza. we just coincidentally we unblinded and published a phase three pivotal trial, all in older adults using the same platform, the same regiment, the similar antiagain and recome meant anti-protein. we could the same response in antibody response and t-cell response in adults.

there is confidence that our vaccine will work well in all age groups. neil: real quickly what gets people's interest, that you would have to take in multiple doses, right? so the demand would be huge in that case but is it, do you look at what i had does become available? that i know the government, the u.s. government, others have worked in concert to get maybe, you know, 100 million or more doses out there by early next year. i know that is a very aggressive timeline. are you optimistic that could be met? >> we will. we, we are doing something that is unprecedented in our, not only in our company but in any company. we're setting up manufacturing sites and scaling up in seven or eight different countries globally. u.s., europe, india, japan, korea. and in that time frame we project that we can have, as you pointed out, 100 million doses

by the first quarter of this coming year but our target is not 100 million. our target is to get to be produced between one and two billion doses in 2021. neil: all right. we'll watch it very closely. stan erck, the ceo of novavax. it has got the world's attention, the market's attention, that can be as he can tell you both a blessing and a curse. we'll monitor that very closely. also monitoring tiktok. remember when the president said he was all for microsoft making a run at the company. now he is giving his blessing to oracle. what the top company official at tiktok thinks whether all this tanks warranted, good, bad, whatever. after this. h. find a stock based on your interests or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology

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♪. president trump: well i think oracle's a great company and i think its owner is a tremendous

guy. he is a tremendous person. i think that oracle would be certainly somebody that could handle it. that is tiktok. i guess microsoft wants. so does oracle. probably so does other people. they also have to make sure the united states is well-compensated. neil: all right. that just sort of added a new wrinkle to this debate offer who gets tiktok eventually. originally the president expressed full support for microsoft's bid for the company. wants something to go back to u.s. taxpayers. not sure of the legality of all of that he did raise it again with oracle and larry ellison is interested in the company. we have the tiktok head of u.s. public policy. good to have you. man, oh, man, you have a lot of suitors at the dance. does the company have any official position on who it likes the most? >> i can't speculate on, or speak to the suitors but, as the president pointed out himself tiktok is very valuable and it

is an asset to be loved by our users across the united states and something provided incredible value to the u.s. we have already hired 1500 people in the united states and continue to grow here in key states, another 10,000 people that we're hiring over the next few years and we're committed to be here and provide value in the u.s. as the president pointed out. neil: so this rush right now to get something done, you know, sooner the better, when it was microsoft alone, now others popped up including it, they said oracle, reports said apple was interested, netflix, i don't even know, but a deal is going to be scored with microsoft. our own liz claman has reported this as soon as next month and locked down or around that time. are you optimistic about that? >> neil, what i am optimistic

about is that tiktok will be around for the long haul. we're going to continue to grow as we are, and provide value for our creators and the people that rely on this app and use it every single day. it is really been a bright spot during these difficult times of covid and everything else, bringing families together. providing more competition in the marketplace. another place for advertisers to come and reach people and so we have really positive story to tell, continue to grow. we will continue to offer the great experience over 100 million people across the u.s. have learned to love, using on a regular basis. neil: michael, one of the reports were that the parent company, bytedance, as part of the provisions here would have to jettison its u.s. operations all together, including tiktok, moving out of the country period. do you know where that stands? >> yeah. the conversations that we're

having relate to, to the u.s. business. you know there is a lot of misconceptions out there right now. we are in a time when we're dealing with very difficult, very strong geopolitical matters but, tiktok is an app that we have very strong controls to protect our users for safety and security. our commitment really is to our community to make sure it will continue to grow here in the united states and prorival you to all the people -- provide value to all the people that use and love the platform. neil: bottom line, many in the u.s. don't trust you, not you in particular, michael, i don't mean it be rude, the suspicion with the china connection, that user data transferred to the chinese. that there will be a sneaky way that happens until the company or u.s. operations are sold. convince me otherwise. >> that is a great question. i'm glad you brought it up. there is a lot of

misunderstanding how the app works and how the app is run. first of all, tiktok is not available in china. that is something people do not realize or know. we have a very strong team here in the united states. including an american ceo. we have one of the world's leading chief security officers with decades of experience in the intel community and department of defense and others, making sure that we have enterprise level access controls and security controls and as we've said, time and time again, we would not share user information with the chinese government, period. we held to that our servers are here in the u.s. in virginia. as i mentioned, we have a u.s. team that is running this. and none of us would allow that to happen. neil: how would you know -- say that is not your intention and i take it at your word it's not but the chinese could be doing it and you're not aware, that this is still happening? there has been a history of that in china. even though there, this notion you're not in china, they would be savvy and smart enough to do

that and, all of sudden it is a trojan horse in this country? >> that is a great point. and what the leading cybersecurity expert and the leading national security experts have said the data that tiktok uses and tiktok's app has absolutely no value from a security standpoint or espionage standpoint and in the example that you gave, probably a lot of other apps, a lot of other companies that information that would be a lot more valuable what you're talking about is a hacking situation. we have systems in place to prevent that if that is the concern people have, focusing on tiktok is really missing a much broader threat. neil: would you be okay with what the president said, share some of the loot on a deal with the united states government? now i'm not a lawyer but i have talked to many lawyers who said, you can't do that, but it is apparently contingent on getting a deal approved, at least in the eyes of the president, no matter

who ultimately gets this, whether microsoft, oracle, combination, i don't know, that taxpayers in the u.s. would have to benefit. what do you think of that? >> well, taxpayers in the united states are benefiting today and they would benefit after a deal is done in the form of taxes that are on the books and as i mentioned we probably have added, you know, fastest growth of a company over the last few months. we added 1000 employees in the last six months alone. we're adding another 10,000 employees. so the value to the treasury and value to the american taxpayers is immense and the way this deal is put together will be a huge value for american taxpayers under the current tax code and way we're growing and adding value to the economy. neil: i think he was talking, the president, about something else, michael, you answered that very gingerly and very well. thank you very much. michael beckerman, head of u.s. public policy for tiktok.

it has, man, oh, man, a lot of interested suitors, doesn't it? a lot of stars are aligning for a lot of big deals. arch crawford saw all this coming. not only because he looks at the stars but he has a pretty good eye for the markets. he is back with us

♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪. neil: is think continued bull market in the stars? let's ask arch crawford with us, crawford perspective founder. he uses astrology, but i know he is a good reader of spreadsheets. he joins us now. arch, what do you think? we talked with tiktok, a key player there could be a very big deal. a lot of big deals. apple hitting a two trillion dollar market cap. all bullish signals all. does it continue? >> i would say the biggest thing happening right now is the s&p

is flirting with the all-time high. the dow jones made it, has not made it back up there. but the -- neil: right. >> but they're pretty active right now and flirting, they have been back and forth across almost making a new high. the s&p actually closed at a new high yesterday but the internal numbers were not so great. so we may get a pullback in the very short term but i think we'll be okay mostly in august. we're getting into the seasonal pattern that is the most dangerous in september and october. so i am concerned about that period in particular. on the markets. neil: as someone who knows astrology, looks at things, what are some of the other things that you are looking at that worry you?

>> the gold has made a new all-time high very recently. we gave a strong buy signal on it in the crawford perspectives newsletter june of 2019 and it has come, i'm currently ranked number two in prediction of the gold market according to timer digest. neil: so what does that mean? that gold had enough after run for you or still has a run to go? i didn't understand that? >> i believe it will go much, much higher after breaking the all-time high recently. neil: you know what, arch, it has been running strong while stocks have been running strong. normally that doesn't happen concurrently. what do you make of that? >> doesn't happen concurrently? you mean about the gold and the stock market? neil: right. >> what's running concurrently?

neil: that they're both racing ahead. and that normally doesn't happen? >> yes. that's true but right now i think it is so much money sloshing around in the system and i think people are looking for a place to put it. and enough people are nervous, enough people are nervous that the gold is going to. seems to me that the market is being held up more artificially because the covid deal that just came through is going to affect earnings patterns for the rest of this year and into next year. so that the numbers, as they come out at the end of the quarters are not going to be good in terms of earnings. but, they will have to be really great to, to overcome the

difficulties that we have just faced in the last month or two. neil: arch, what do your charts tell you, stars, whatever you want to use, about the presidential election? the markets seem to be telegraphing something that usually benefits the party in the white house, not all the time but i think nine out of 10 times. where are you on that and the the impact all of this will have? >> i will say on the election it will be an extremely exciting time. president trump will have the planet uranus on the midday on election, it has surprises and will give him the power to win it probably. it is a very exceptional period. i remember when we had an election like this before where

mercury was stationing. we didn't know who won for 12 days, what, bush and gore? neil: wow. and mercury forecast it would be bush then? >> [inaudible]. it was up in the air nobody knew who had won, until actual -- neil: i didn't know mercury was a catalyst there? >> you remember that, the supreme court decided that last one. neil: arch, i remember it well. arch, great to see you again. let's get you back. you're looking lively and very well. you're the best. arch crawford. the others look at this, that is silly, the stars. no, no. look at his record. more after this. hike!

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♪. neil: all right. ahead of the third night of the democratic convention we just gotten word of that joe biden has shown up at the chase center in will ming ton, delaware. i don't know whether he will be there all day as he was a good chunk ever the day. again all of this virtual here. obviously he will keep a close eye on kamala harris who is

going to be speaking to the nation, first time as a vice-presidential candidate tonight. also barack obama, nancy pelosi, elizabeth warren, hillary clinton. former representative gabby giffords. so it's a whole host of characters there right now. of course the big night is for joe biden tomorrow night. remember our fox business coverage kicks off at 9:00 p.m. eastern time as all of this really gets rolling. stay with tomorrow night. stay with us. the dow up 44 points. apple, a two trillion dollar company. it has been 38 years to reach one trillion. less than two for two trillion. a lot of apples. ♪ this is decision tech. find a stock based on your interests or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity.

guys! guys! safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today. neil: all right. we enter day three of the democratic convention, a virtual affair that, you know, might be hard to adjust to but it's a whole new game, particularly for younger people who have apparently been downloading at least some of the clips they like to see. michelle obama, dr. jill biden, in numbers greater than watched it live. so you have to be young to appreciate this but maybe that's the whole strategy here. the ratings tumbled from four

years ago but we shall see. in the meantime, it's a battle in the battleground states, pennsylvania among them. connell mcshane has been crisscrossing the country going to each and every one of the real important ones that tipped the balfoance four years ago. he's in westchester, pennsylvania right now, with 20 electoral votes, one of the big reasons why donald trump triumphed in the electoral vote count four years ago. how is it looking there right now, connell? connell: this is biden country so if joe biden is going to take back the state of pennsylvania for the democrats, he has to run up the score as the political pundits say in chester county. it's been trending blue here for a number of years. barack obama became the first democrat to win it in 2008 since lbj. the party has been kind of building on that ever since. they did well in the midterms last time around. you kind of add to that that trend, a home court advantage of sorts for joe biden.

some voters have been telling us they kind of feel like they know him. we are only about a half hour drive from wilmington, delaware. >> -- not as big of a fan as biden because they view him as being too centrist, but i mean, i met him before, i went to his high school, i actually had the opportunity to play at his christmas party one year and sing. i met the guy, i know his family's a great, you know, they are a great family. connell: if there's a challenge for biden here, it might very well come in the small business community. much of chester county was able to weather the pandemic storm fairly well. it's a white collar area, people working from home and that kind of thing. but small business owners, when we talk to them, some frustration is building with all the restrictions that are still in place. give you an example. chris lucas owns a popular breakfast spot just up the block from here called penn's table. he's only allowed to operate at 20% -- 25% in terms of the

occupancy. you know, that means business is way down and partly as a result of that, he says he's leaning towards trump. >> i don't always like or agree with things he may or may not say but i do think as a businessman he knows how to run businesses and [ inaudible ]. i will probably reserve that but i will say that i would if i had to say today, yes, i would. reporter: you know every vote matters in this state as you said coming in. we are actually as a quick preview heading to the northeastern part of the state tomorrow. we will end up in joe biden's hometown of scranton before his speech tomorrow night. might be a much different feel there. back to you. neil: thank you very much. connell mcshane busy tracking what's going on in these battleground states. one thing that stood out in the democratic convention so far is the diversity of the speakers, including all the republicans or at least some prominent names who have come out in support of the former vice president,

including colin powell, john kasich, cindy mccain, the wife of the late senator john mccain. i want to get the read on that from bobby jindal, former presidential candidate himself, the governor of louisiana. before launching that bid. governor, what do you make of some of your republican colleagues who bolted, john kasich, who was running with you when donald trump was running in 2016, now for joe biden. what do you make of that? >> well, first off, thank you for having me back on your show. look, i've got tremendous respect for secretary powell, for cindy mccain. great, great individuals. i disagree with them for endorsing biden. i disagree with governor kasich. i'm not going to attack them personally. i admired them before and i will admire them today even if i disagree with them for this decision. i don't think fundamentally this is going to make a big difference in the election. the reality is, biden has been a d.c. insider for decades. these are other politicians, other political figures

endorsing him. i think for the kind of outside, the voters are looking for an outsider to drain the swamp. this is not going to change their opinion. they are still voting for donald trump. they are still angry at the d.c. insiders. what i thought was interesting was they gave more time for the colin powells, for the cindy mccains, for the john kasiches than to aoc, one of their own rising stars. i thought it was quite the contrast that they gave many minutes to the republicans and only 60 seconds to what was supposed to be one of their rising stars. neil: you might be right about that but one thing that sticks out, this notion particularly governor kasich in supporting joe biden said he will not, you know, he will not be rolled, i'm paraphrasing here, he will the no not be pushed around by elements within the party, trying to send a signal he's not an extreme liberal or over-the-top progressive but you know, the party doctrine and the platform reads very progressive.

i'm wondering why you think john kasich was convinced that he wouldn't be rolled, that biden wouldn't be controlled by these elements. >> well, i think that's the fundamental conflict in the dnc convention this week, in the biden campaign. biden's whole campaign theme has been if you elect him, you can turn back the clock, go back four years, you can forget all the tweets, you can forget all of the drama and everything that's happened these last four years and you see that he's embracing a vote for biden is a vote for kind of the no drama obama years. that's not where the democratic party is. you listen to bernie sanders, to aoc, in her short 60 second speech she's talking about things like systemic change. she's talking about correcting the wrongs of colonization. i didn't really understand what that had to do with america. you listen to the base of the democratic party, they think america is hopelessly corrupt, its past is hopelessly racist. they don't want to go back in time. they want a radically different future. i think that's the fundamental tension in the biden campaign.

i actually think ocasio-cortez, i think the congresswoman did joe biden a favor by not mentioning his name. there has been this huge controversy, she only had 60 seconds to talk, she only mentioned bernie sanders' name. i think it was a design. i think biden didn't want her to mention his name. i think he's trying to hide from the green new deal, from medicare for all but he picked a vice president who embraced those things, who embraced a ban on fracking. i think that speaks to the ultimate contradiction and tension within the democratic party. neil: governor jindal, we will see what happens. very good catching up with you. governor bobby jindal of louisiana, former 2016 presidential candidate. this is an issue i do want to raise with austan goolsbee, former biden economic council chair. art laffer here as well. austan, i will begin with you. i had paul dejoria with us earlier. he became a billionaire many times over and he doesn't like the tone he's hearing out of a lot of the democratic speakers going after a wealth tax, going

after a surtax and that it's gone just beyond raising rates to, you know, this idea in california where they want to take a percentage of the wealth that you accumulated there. how do you feel about that and his stating this is too much? >> well, i guess i'm not surprised that a guy who is a multi-billionaire and just benefited from a $2 trillion high income oriented tax cut would be opposed to seeing his taxes would go back up. i'm not surprised at that. neil: what bothered him the most, just to be clear, what bothered him the most was the wealth tax. not, you know, not bringing the top rate back to 39.6% but a wealth tax. what do you think of that? >> okay. there were a lot of cuts to the wealth tax. abolishing and raising the cap on the estate tax, a bunch of things that put money back into the pockets of very high income people in the trump tax cut.

so i'm not surprised that somebody who was the beneficiary of that tax cut would be opposed to reimposing taxes or having to pay more. i think if you look -- neil: again, i don't mean to belabor the point but do you think that's a good idea? i will get to art but -- >> on the estate tax, i haven't been -- neil: what about an asset tax? assets of everything you own, the worth that you have, do you tax a percentage of that? do you like that? >> joe biden hasn't proposed that. he specifically did not oppose that but i think things like step up basis at death which is a loophole which allows billionaires to pass billions of dollars to their children and not pay taxes on it, raising the exemptions on the estate tax for billionaires to be again, be able to pass money to donald trump jr. or whoever and that they would not have to pay taxes on that, that doesn't make sense to me. so i think we should be looking

at a lot of things other than just raising marginal rates because as art laffer has tried to tell us, just raising marginal rates is the worst way to go about raising revenue. neil: what do you think of that, art? >> well, i do think he's right about raising rates is the worst way to do it. can you hear me, neil? neil: yes. go ahead. >> oh, good. raising rates is a real problem. yeah. raising rates is a real problem. it causes slower economic growth. but wealth taxes make no sense. what you want is one low rate broad-based flat tax. that's it. collect the money, then spend it the way you should. but you shouldn't sit there and try to redistribute income because we -- it hasn't worked and all it does is causes the economy to collapse before our very eyes. you can see that very much trump's tax bill on corporations

and on individuals caused economic growth to be much higher. you know, if you look at the times we raised rates, kennedy cut highest rates dramatically, it worked very very well. raising rates that is proposed right now just doesn't make sense. going to a wealth tax i think is the silliest thing we could possibly do. it makes no sense. neil: well, to be fair, the top rate during kennedy's time was a lot higher, 90%, bringing it down to 75%. leaving that aside, do you find, art, that -- let me ask you, do you find a little disingenuous for republicans, for the president to argue, you know, democrats are going to spend like silly when at the pace he's going, i can understand the virus and everything else, but before the virus, he was running up debt faster than i run through a ponderosa buffet. i'm just saying when republicans are talking about being serious about spending, and they made a mockery of spending, who is zooming whom?

>> you are exactly right. the cares act i thought spent way, way, way too much. it was $3 trillion plus, if you count it with the deficit. it's just huge amounts and a lot of it was waste. i think the money spent on health care, that was extremely good. but i think the cares act was but i think what the president is doing now, when the democrats passed another $3 trillion plus bill, he didn't go along with it. he really didn't go along with it. but he did make a mistake on allowing that first bill to go through. that spending was way out of line and should not have been done. you want -- neil: well, that's not the only thing he agreed to. he's agreed to an additional $10 trillion in spending. art, let me get your take on this. we can go back and forth on this about who are bigger spenders. the argument here seems to be that if joe biden gets in, taxes are going to go up, at least corporate taxes from 21% to 28%. other exemptions, if you close them, will raise still more

revenue. the president will pound that, that joe biden is a tax hiker. he says the markets will collapse under the weight of that and that if you love your 401(k), joe biden gets in, you can kiss it good-bye. how should joe biden answer that? >> look, the stock market is not the economy. what joe biden is talking about raising taxes on high income people, big corporations, the ones that got $2 trillion of tax cuts under donald trump. there's widespread support among the american people for exactly the tax policy that joe biden is describing. i will remind you -- neil: austan, you say the economy -- austan, you say -- [ speaking simultaneously ] neil: would you raise taxes in an environment like this right now? >> on ordinary workers, no. on high income people, there is

no evidence that cutting the taxes on high income people gave us magic beanstalk beans so why would having their taxes go back to them paying something like what they were paying before be detrimental to the economy? i think there is a reason why before covid even arrived, the trump tax cut was literally the most unpopular tax cut in the history of american polling. that is because when people look at what was in it, it was massively geared to high income people and hedge funds and big corporations in a way that did not trickle down to ordinary americans, and they are going to change that policy -- [ speaking simultaneously ] neil: art, let me ask you that. let me be clear on this. do you think, art, that looking for tax cuts and not addressing spending is going to hurt republicans, that they look like hypocrites?

>> well, it will hurt republicans. controlling spending is really, really important as well. but what you want to do is lower tax rates, neil, and broaden the tax base dramatically. when warren buffett pays something like $7 million in taxes and has an income of $3 billion, that's way too much. it's not because rates were too low. it's because the base was way too small, unrealized capital gain, increases in unrealized capital gains, deductions for 501-c3 needs to be reformed dramatically so we have a huge base and just like what i did for jerry brown where we reduced the rate to 13% but had two flat rate taxes, 13%, one at business net sales and one at adjusted gross income. it was statically neutral and would caused horrendously high growth. neil: guys, thank you very very much. i want to keep it focused. i got it. i got it. i got it. you were both great.

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neil: all right. i guess goodyear meant to do well by this, putting out sort of a standard proclamation here but when you read it and read what is not acceptable versus what is, well, the mission statement has now become an albatross around goodyear itself. jackie deangelis on the controversy over maybe a virtue gone bad. jackie? jackie: good afternoon, neil. goodyear is basically playing defense right now because of the controversy, because of the criticism about a document that supposedly came from the company in one of its diversity training sessions and it's being labeled as discriminatory. there's basically a photo going around on social media and it's got this slide that supposedly came from a meeting and it says acceptable and not acceptable when it comes to the zero tolerance policy of the company.

so on the acceptable side it lists black lives matter as well as lesbian, gay, transgender and bisexual pride. on the unacceptable side, blue lives matter, all lives matter, maga attire, politically affiliated slogans or material. the gripe from some of the employees and also from others now is why are certain forms of expression allowed but others aren't. you could actually argue that black lives matter does assert a political agenda, yet political slogans and maga attire specifically are not acceptable. the president saw this, he took to twitter, said don't buy goodyear tires, they announced a ban on maga hats, get better tires for far less. this is what the radical left democrats do. two can play the same game and we have to start playing it now. goodyear coming back with its own tweet on this. yesterday, goodyear became the focus of a conversation that created some misconceptions about our policies and our company. goodyear has always

wholeheartedly supported both equality and law enforcement and will continue to do so. there was also a statement that said in part quote, first, the visual in question was not created or distributed by goodyear corporate, nor was it part of a diversity training class. to be clear, our long-standing corporate policy, goodyear has zero tolerance for any form of harassment or discrimination. basically, what they are saying is no, we are not allowing harassment or discrimination. corporate did not put this out. maybe one of the branch offices went rogue here. but they are also not addressing what was on that slide, what was considered acceptable or not acceptable. they are sort of directly staying away from that. i reached out to the company directly this morning. i have not heard back from them but of course, we will keep you up to date. remember, this is a company that really represents american history to a certain degree. it's 122 years old and sort of the fabric of manufacturing. so it's interesting that it's

coming under fire for potentially having even a slide like this or being associated with it at all. back to you. neil: yeah. big mistake. it was in writing. once it's in writing, people can get it and have a field day with it. jackie, thank you very very much. there it is. it doesn't come back. doesn't erase itself. scott shellady, cow guy as we like to call him, excellent read of all things capitalism. what do you think of the things goodyear is dealing with now? >> well, i mean, it's the height of lunacy and it just keeps happening every single day, right. you are exactly right, you can say it with roses and say it with minks but never ever put it in ink. you have heard that before. jimmy durante. this is another great example. you shouldn't put it in writing because it will make its way out. by making its way out, it just highlights the fact there is -- there are different standards, right. you can riot and protest, but you can't go to church because somebody might get covid.

this has been happening now for the last three or four months and every day i keep thinking it's going to stop but then every day, something new like this happens. so i'm not surprised at all by this. and i won't be surprised when the next thing comes out tomorrow. neil: i'm too young to get the jimmy durante reference but i know what you're saying. i am wondering, i understand a lot of corporate boards have to be, you know, very very politically correct, they have to be very very cautious but in so being, they end up offending somebody. so in this case, goodyear has offended a lot of people that respect law enforcement and say blue lives matter. the immediate impression is that maybe to goodyear, they don't. it's not as important as some of these other things. to put it in writing and state it as a company policy, that wasn't a company policy, they argue, but someone put it in

writing, it only digs a deeper hole, you know? >> it does. and unfortunately, a lot of these big ceos and a lot of these big corporations in america, it's not just america, it's also western europe, by acquiescing to these things sometimes, i think that puts them in bigger trouble. i think they should be very careful of how they address these things, because once you come down on a side, and i think clearly, they mostly do come down on a side, that's going to put you in harm's way. that could alienate half of your customer base. i've got very good friends that are realtors and they are too afraid or actually maybe too smart to enter the fray and put out there on social media or anywhere else what candidate they support or what platform they support because they have got the right idea that hey, i'm just going to stay quiet on this and not say anything. i think that's probably the better part of valor here is not to address it because once you go out there and start addressing these things and big corporations have put their feet in their mouth over and over again on this issue, that

probably in hindsight would have been better just to not put anything out at all. neil: i think you're right about that. at least putting it in writing, i can't stress it enough because then it takes on a life of its own. scott shellady, thank you very much. be well, my friend. following all those fast-moving developments. you probably heard about all these cities that are, you know, trying to defund their police departments. governor abbott back in texas has said all right, you want to do that, we are freezing your property taxes. you can't raise them. fighting fire with fire. after this. introducing stocks by the slice from fidelity. now you can trade stocks and etfs for any amount you choose instead of buying by the share. all with no commissions. stocks by the slice from fidelity. get your slice today.

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starting with a low figure, then redressing it down the road and getting a higher figure. it's the first time we have heard the two sides are at least throwing proposals out there. chad pergram on all of this and what happens next. reporter: well, we haven't had any formal talks here on a coronavirus bill for about a week and a half. it was a week ago today that the secretary of the treasury, steve mnuchin and house speaker nancy pelosi last talked by phone here. but remember the house of representatives is going to come into session on saturday to do a bill just dealing with the postal service. the white house chief of staff mark meadows, that shows there's a glimmer of hope. >> the outlook for a skinny deal is better than it's ever been, yet we are still not there. if speaker pelosi moves forward a single bill on postal, that could hurt the indication we have that she will do a skinny bill because obviously postal was part of the negotiation. reporter: some republicans are assembling what meadows referred to as the skinny bill. that measure would likely cost around $1 trillion.

the plan would reup extra unemployment benefits to around $300 a week, down from the $600 rate which expired last month. the package would also include liability protections, pushed by senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and there would be help for schools. house speaker nancy pelosi doesn't want to conflate coronavirus aid with the postal service. she wants a bipartisan vote on the postal service bill up saturday in the house. >> [ inaudible ]. reporter: remember, this bill just deals with the postal service. there are some democrats, especially those with competitive re-election bids who are starting to push the leadership to load other things dealing with coronavirus on to this bill. this morning, cindy axney, a freshman democrat from iowa,

competitive race there, she flipped a seat from red to blue in 2018, she wrote to the speaker asking them to put coronavirus aid on to the postal service bill on saturday, but that probably won't happen, neil. neil: chad pergram, thank you very much, my friend. chad on capitol hill on all of that. in the meantime, the president just goes ahead and sues new jersey, the governor there, phil murphy, sending mail-in ballots to everybody in the state. the president arguing he can't do this and it's the kind of thing that will complicate matters. but where this suit stands and what happens now, let's go to katie on all of this. i'm going to do it in two parts. is it constitutional for governor murphy to send mail-in ballots to everyone, conversely, is it constitutional for the president to challenge that effort as far broad-based? >> well, i think the trump campaign has made a very

compelling argument that the governor has overstepped his authority and has rewritten election laws in violation of the constitution. the constitution is very clear that the legislature of the sta states has to be the one to actually change election laws. that's what this order is essentially doing. i think that the lawsuit stands a very good chance of prevailing based on that. neil: so of other states that are kind of blazing this or in the process without announcing it, just sending out mail-in ballots, would they too likely be sued as a result? would they too be joined in a suit like this? >> i think that's very likely and as i said, the constitution is very clear that it has to come from the legislature. now, if it actually came from the state legislature, it would be difficult federally to challenge that because the feds have limited ability to interfere with state election processes. but here in new jersey, the governor has just essentially stepped in with an order trying to override the law and he can't do that in my view.

neil: let's lay it out that these mail-in ballots regardless, they happen and everyone is, you know, going to go that route, less than 40 million four years ago, could be 80 or 100 million this go-round. i don't know what numbers are right, but i do know it could be a tad overwhelming. but it's ripe for abuse, right? if someone fills in a mail-in ballot what is to stop them from showing up in person at a voting booth, then raising concerns that people have voted multiple times? these are some of the issues that come up and with whom do you have that beef? >> that's exactly the problem. you always have the right to apply for an absentee mail-in ballot but to just send out ballots carte blanch to ever registered voters creates a lot of abuse, for fraud, for people

stealing votes, for people being pressured because it's a different setting than a private in-person voting booth, and that's the problem. you have to put safeguards in place because realistically you are going to have to have some ability to do absentee mail-in voting but to do it across the state without anyone applying for it is when you are really going to skew the numbers. neil: this is where it gets overtly political but if you will indulge me here. governor murphy is tweeting out that the president's campaign is putting itself on record as wanting to de-legitimize our november election instead of working with us to ensure that voter rights are upheld along with the public health. he goes on to say this goes far beyond attempts at weaponizing the postal service to disenfranchise voters. this is now becoming a full-throated propaganda campaign to undermine the election itself. what do you make of that? >> i think that those remarks are somewhat disingenuous based

on governor murphy's actions with regard to the coronavirus in other capacities. so his decision to send out ballots to everybody doesn't seem to be premised in the idea of public health and safety. it seems much more political based on just the contrast from the actions he's taken with schools, for instance, and other businesses reopening versus the decision to just decide that people will all default mail-in vote. i think that's what's political here. i don't think that the president's concerns which are legitimate about the mail-in ballots are the problem. neil: it does sound to me that the system will get overwhelmed, whether you are for this or not, you want to encourage more voting or not, we won't have a clear winner on election day unless someone tips it so far it looks like a landslide but offsetting that, it's going to be a nightmare. >> i think it's really going to be based on the history, the

lawsuit lays out a lot of historical issues, especially in new jersey, that they have had with voter fraud, with mail-in vote fraud and i think that they have done nothing with this order to address those issues to put safeguards in place. so you are going to only exacerbate that by allowing this to be so widespread. i think that's a real shame because the election results really hang in the balance here. neil: yeah, to put it mildly. katie, thank you very much. you made sense so i could even understand what's at play here. we will follow it very very closely. as katie touched on, new jersey isn't the only one, you know, thinking about this, doing this. of course a number of other states are in full support of the efforts he's taking. might do it themselves. stay with us. i'm a performer. -always have been.

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neil: all right. well, 83 days of demonstrations and sometimes pretty violent ones in portland. it goes uninterrupted and right now, unaddressed.

dan springer with the very very latest in seattle. dan? reporter: yeah, neil, i think we have to point out that this is not thousands of people protesting every night, but rather, a group of about 200 to 300 people. a hardcore group that are bent on battling with the police and they got another fight last night, another riot declared in portland last night, with a new twist, as they hit a new building. a manhunt for the man suspected of that vicious assault that we saw sunday night. police have been trying to find 25-year-old marquise love for two days. there was so much video they had him identified pretty quickly. police tell us they are working with his parents in hopes of getting him to turn himself in. love used to work as a private security guard and deejay before the covid thing hit. he was a regular at the black lives matter protests in portland. his criminal history does include a domestic assault in 2017. the victim is a 40-year-old man.

we have been in contact with his brother who tells us he is at home recovering. last night, portland police declared yet another riot downtown when arsonists tried to set the county building on fire. they smashed windows and doors and threw lit paper into the lobby. they even used lighter fluid as an accelerant to spread the flames. some in the crowd of around 200 also set dumpsters on fire in the streets. the county building is where the covid-19 response is coordinated. in a statement, the county chair said quote, this is the heart of our county, where people in our community come to get married, get their passports and celebrate their cultural traditions and diversity. now it joins the list of buildings damaged during 83 nights of anarchy in portland. neil? neil: just incredible. dan springer, thank you very very much. want to get the read on this from former i.c.e. director tom

homan. what's happening in portland, i think dan is exactly right, it's not as if everyone is doing this but just a couple hundred of those who want to agitate. what do you do about the agitators? >> you let the law enforcement do their job. the governor and the mayor of portland have tied their hands. they take away equipment, they are talking about defunding them or moving money around. let the law enforcement officers do what they are trained to do. if it was me running that city it would be zero tolerance. one minute past curfew, you are going to jail. but they got to get the district attorney to agree to prosecute for disorderly conduct and curfew violations. if there's no consequence and there's no deterrence of doing what they're doing, why would they stop? so i think you let the police officers do their job, enforce the law, zero tolerance and this would go away quickly. neil: you know, tom, that seems to be the approach that governor abbott of texas is taking with

these cities that are trying to defund their police demenpartme. he says go ahead and do that but we are freezing your property taxes if you do. what do you make of that? >> i think it's an absolute genius move. it's like, you know, look, you are a numbers guy, neil. it's a matter of money. every dollar you take away from law enforcement results in less enforcement. i had a $7 billion budget around i.c.e. you got to decide what can you do with that money and what can't you do with that money. when you take money, they took one-third of austin pd's money away which means less patrols, less officers, longer response times. they don't have money for undercover operations. so the governor made a point. it's like your cable bill. if your cable company takes one-third of your channels away, you are not expecting a rate increase. you are expecting a decrease. i think the governor is making a great move here. i hope more governors follow his actions. neil: tom homan, good catching up with you. be well, be safe. >> good seeing you, neil. neil: same here, my friend.

same here. all right. we are also looking at what's going on with apple right now, in and out of being a $2 trillion company. lot of tech stocks are going along for the ride. the dow, of course, which is still about 5% away from a record, wants to make it a hat trick with the likes of the s&p and nasdaq, which are at records. stay with us. where are you?! honey, did you hear about these new geico savings? mom? you'll get an extra 15% on top of what geico could already save you. can i call you back? your father's been researching our geneology. we're vikings! there's never been a better time to save with geico. switch by october seventh for an extra 15% on car and motorcycle insurance. hey, we lost the wifi password. do you remember what that is?

neil: all right. well, notre dame, michigan state among the latest schools to say we were hoping to have in-person classes to kick things off. now we are pushing it back a couple weeks at the very very least. all this as cases spike and college kids, surprise, surprise, gather, socialize, go to bars, crowds, and it's a situation that will play itself out in a number of schools that might follow the same pattern of hoping to start out in person, ending up starting out virtually if they ever get to starting in person. let's get the read on all of this from kim strassel, "wall

street journal" editorial board, much much more. i guess this isn't shocking this is happening but i'm wondering how difficult this is going to be to veer toward in-person because the slightest uptick is going to hold you off. it's quite possible, forget about our colleges and universities, that a number of, you know, secondary, primary education kids are going to be facing the same conundrum. >> well, you know what we are facing here, neil, is what you would expect which is this is an experiment and we are creeping forward seeing who's doing things better and who are not doing things as well, and so a lot of the attention has been on unc and michigan state, notre dame, which has opened and now instantly is saying they are at least pausing. i would also point out, we've also got examples of schools that are showing that they can do this, too. it seems to be about the way you go about it. you know, hillsdale college in michigan as well, it in july had

a commencement for its kids. 2700 people were on campus. they had a social distancing, masks, all these protocols. they came out of that without a single case. they are going to start classes next week with a whole bunch of things in place hoping to keep that track record. or duke, by the way, down in north carolina, they are also opening. they reported 11 cases on monday but they also are having their kids, for instance, sign a pledge that they will abide by social distancing rules. so i think it might be a little bit just about the procedures and how they roll out in the end. neil: i think you're right, on all of that. what i worry about, though, is in this age of litigation, so many schools, especially the ones that don't have big endowments or any of that, they are scared of getting sued either the kids or their parents or a combination, so they play it very very close to the vest. they might warn kids, try not to crowd into bars and all that, good luck with that advice, and maybe the answer is to your point, these schools that have

kids sign a pledge or all that, but i think these schools do it because they see others doing it. it's the same with delaying, you know, football season because other conferences are doing that. you know, if they do it, i should do it because i'm hanging out on a legal vine here if i don't. what do you think? >> no, i think you are totally right. to me, by the way, one of the greatest pities is the fact that congress did not get a bill through in the end was that it missed the opportunity to deal with this ever-important liability issue that you mentioned. because by the way, that's not just at the college level. there are public schools that are very concerned about opening because if they get a case or a teacher gets ill, are they going to be on the legal hook for that. we have seen some states, by the way, specifically deny school districts liability protection because they don't want them to open. this is political games. but because they know that schools will be too scared to open if they don't have that liability protection. we got to get that in place in

these different states to at least give some of these systems of education some confidence that they are trying to do the right thing for our kids, that they're not going to be held responsible in some court down the road. neil: then you have teachers who will have sick-outs to force the issue, putting a number of superintendents in the position to say all right, i would like to resume classes but all the teachers are gone. that's spreading, too. >> yeah. that's out there. and you know, look, i think we also, too, we have to step back and remember, have a better view. we are learning so much about this virus. in particular, its effects on people of different age groups, and they do range, okay, and so we have to factor all of that into these decisions about going back and then under what circumstances are we so triggered that we completely shut down again because as we have learned, there are consequences and costs on the other side of denying kids

education or their ability to socialize. we are seeing that in all shapes and forms right now. neil: all right. kim, you make a lot of sense. a lot of the recommendations that could settle this and we could move forward. they are way too common sense so that's not going to happen. thank you. >> thanks, neil. neil: the dow up 66 points right now. a couple of eye-popping numbers earnings-wi earnings-wise. after this. . .

♪. neil: all right. big convention night. we're going to be live on this night. eastern time tonight. this is kamala harris' big night. think of here as the cfo, ceo in waiting. how will she do? that is tonight. here is charles payne. hey, charles. charles: can't wait for tonight, neil. good afternoon, i'm charles payne. this is making money. the shortest bear market in history as s&p 500 lodged all-time highs. i tell you why i continue to be optimistic. hint, it has a lot to do with experts stitt dumping on this record breaking move. democrats officially nominate joe biden as the candidate. including with republican