to fall apart but we are looking for a catalyst. maybe we will find out what it is. could be earnings. could be earnings. we'll find out. david, always appreciate your insight. you gave us a lot. people, i hope you took that down. plb, the symbol. meantime, we are well off the lows of the session but we can't get over the hump. liz claman, i don't think wall street thinks we will get a stimulus deal but i think they really would love one if it happens. liz: exactly. you just used the word catalyst. that could be the catalyst and of course, maybe there will be that discussion because we are just five hours away, check the clock, folks, from a different kind of 2020 election face-off. instead of a traditional debate tonight, dueling town hall events as president trump and joe biden seek to get out their messages on different networks. even if the traditional debate structure is dead for now, the "countdown" debate, we call it the economic undercard, is alive and kicking.

the overwhelming interest you showed in the first one last month included, of course, trump administration's larry kudlow, biden economist ben harris, mike novogra novogratz, robert kiyosaki, marc lasry. it was epic and we heard you tell us you want us to focus on all the money matters of the two presidential candidates. it's a win/win so here we are at it again. straight ahead, we are joined by forbes media chair and former republican presidential candidate steve forbes. former chairman of the council of economic advisers austan goolsbee. energy secretary in the trump administration dan br oushgs illet. trillions of dollars of stimulus could be headed for the economy before the election. we stress could. the dow was down 332 points earlier. we are down just 26 now.

s&p lower by 10. off the lows in a big way. the nasdaq off 84 points. low of the session for the nasdaq, triple digits so definitely a better picture here. boy, did we see an interesting move in the ten-year yield. it continues right now. early this morning, it broke through the .72 resistance floor, dropping to .69. now look at it. it is back up not only above .72, but above .73. so fear seems to be coming out of the market. but none of that erases this fact. the stimulus impasse has sent markets on a gut-churning roller coaster ride. you included, right? because you have your investments. a new "wall street journal"/nbc news poll of registered voters shows joe biden leading president trump 53% to 42% right now, but when it comes to handling the economy, voters prefer the president. 19% for joe biden, 74% for

president trump. this as we have an uptick in coronavirus cases. 30 million americans on some form of unemployment benefit and no new stimulus package. today, stuart varney just hours ago asked president trump if he was willing to increase the stimulus offer. >> i would, because look, this was not closed by our workers and our people. this was closed by china. and china will pay us back in one form or another. and the money's coming back anyway. i would, absolutely i would. i would pay more. i would go higher. liz: to our economic undercard. forbes media chairman, steve forbes. and former chairman of the council of economic advisers under president obama, austan gals be goolsbee. steve, the democrats have brought their original $3.3 trillion offer down to $2.2 trillion. the numbers are kind of moving but the white house has moved its offer up to $1.8 trillion.

what should be the president's next move and is he handling this correctly? >> i think what he should do is get to the specifics. one is there's going to be no bailout of states that have mismanaged their finances but having something like a big paycheck, another round of checks instead of $1200, make it $2,000 and the like, and on the payroll tax, suspend that for six months so people know they can get more money and employers know they can hire people and save money. win/win all around. you have those kind of positive things, that would be a good stimulus package. liz: austan, all right, steve says we do need detail. i think the american people always deserve detail. it's their money. but in my opinion, stimulus is a misnomer. it should be called a life raft right now. the white house moving up and the democrats have come down but will they come down a bit more so we can start getting people out of the water and on to the life raft and if the democrats

don't, do they risk the accusation that in this political chess game, their side may be panned with making americans look like the pawns here? >> on the last part, i'm just a policy guy. i will say i agree with your terminology that this is not regular stimulus. this is rescue and life raft kind of money until we get control of the virus. if you can get control of the virus, then we can get out of the business of keeping everyone afloat. but until you get control of the virus, we are in the business of supporting people so they don't get evicted and we don't have permanent damage. the details that steve just told you, those aren't even in the negotiation. they aren't talking about payroll tax cuts and details like that. i think the root of the problem here is that if it were up to mnuchin and nancy pelosi, they would have already had a deal. i mean, they have come down from the original positions and they are very close in the grand scheme of things. the root problem is that the

white house does not control mitch mcconnell, and mitch mcconnell has made clear that the senate is not going to support anything like the terms of the quote, unquote, agreement that they would reach. and the democrats in congress know that and so they're not inclined to do a bunch of public negotiating against themselves with the white house, when the white house can't deliver its own votes. liz: steve, mitch mcconnell just said in the last 12 hours same thing. how do you handle this and suddenly his members of the senate, the gop members, have found, you know, fiscal religion here and conservative moves on money after such unbelievable spending, and i'm talking about pre-covid. so how does this thing get harnessed and under control and where does the president need to show some leadership? >> i think he's showing leadership now in making it clear he's willing to do an agreement on a huge package, and the key thing is the details.

what the republicans don't want are disguised bailouts of things like the post office, disguised bailouts of states that have mismanaged their finances. you clean that stuff out, you can get an agreement very quickly. mcconnell go along with it. there are always going to be a handful of republicans or democrats who aren't going to vote for a final package but the two sides agree, i guarantee you would get overwhelming support in both the house and the senate because people know, certainly the elected representatives know they can go home and say here, we have done something. i think austan's right in the sense these are life rafts. this is like giving money to people who have been hit by a storm, economic storm, health care storm. you would get overwhelming support. people want to go home, including congress, and say here's what we've done. i don't blame it on mitch mcconnell. i'm not sure nancy pelosi really wants a package that could be seen as something in any way helping donald trump. they can come to an agreement pretty quickly if they leave out the junk. liz: answer that, austan.

what about that? >> look, mitch mcconnell has made it clear he doesn't agree with steve. if steve were in the negotiation, he would come to some reasonable compromise. mitch mcconnell is not bound by what is popular with the american people. i think steve is right. the american people support the life raft, but if you look, for example, at the trump tax cut that was supported unanimously by the republicans, it's the most unpopular tax cut in the history of american polling. even before covid, only 34% of the american people agreed that it was a good idea. so the fact that the american people want something is definitely not that big of a motivator for mitch mcconnell and the senate republicans. >> if you ask the american people -- liz: now we come -- >> -- $2,000 tax increase by losing the exemption that gave them in 2018, they would say let me keep more of what i earn. they don't want to give up that

money. that's why they want another round of individual checks to help get their finances back in order from this disaster. >> i agree, they do want the checks and the economy does need the support. i will observe that the biden plan does not raise anyone's taxes who makes less than $400,000 a year, so the only people complaining that they don't want their taxes to go up are the very people who have done quite well not only in the last several years or decades, but have done well through this covid crisis, and it's ordinary working people who are the ones who have been suffering, and that's why i hope that they are able to reach some kind of agreement. but we've got to get over the mcconnell hump. i don't see how you can get past that. liz: here's a way to get over the spending hump. president trump has spent quite a bit of money expecting that his tax cuts would pay for themselves. big tax cuts for corporations, that has not yet come to pass.

steve, to austan, though, we just showed the biden plan. there's a deficit. yes, you are implementing tax hikes on the so-called wealthy, although some would argue $400,000 is not wealthy depending on certain areas, but the spending is still outpacing the tax numbers that would come in. how do we then make the case that somehow, biden is going to bring down the deficit? >> well, i would say two things about that. i think you are conflating two different types of spending. one are emergency spending measures that are about the here and now and dealing with the ramifications of covid. he has said and almost all experts agree with, that should not be financed by current taxation. that should be deficit financed. for his longer run programs, it's not true, his longer run programs, he pays for by taxes that are not popular with steve or with mitch mcconnell, but they are higher taxes on high

income people, which is overwhelmingly supported by the american people in the polling. liz: okay. >> does joe biden want to continue the part of the trump tax cut that doubled the exemptions for families? why doesn't he come out and say that part of the tax -- trump tax plan we will keep? why doesn't he just say it explicitly? >> he has. it's on his website. >> he was asked that in the debate. >> it's right on the fact sheet that they will repeal the trump tax cuts for people earning more than $400,000 a year. [ speaking simultaneously ] >> we have tried that before and it does not work. hold on, people. liz: i tried to be fair and balanced. we started with steve, we kind of ended with austan. good vibrant discussion. gentlemen, we really appreciate it. we will bring you both back because our economic undercard has been really popular with viewers.

steve forbes, austan gals bools thank you so much. we have major pop and drop stocks to tell you about right now. we will start with fastly, which is falling fast and furiously after warning a drop in usage from customers is pretty significant. the stock is tanking, down 26%. this is a high flyer, by the way. now, among other names, fastly's tech helps video sharing app tiktok owner bytedance deliver online content very quickly. that's their biggest customer. fastly says due to uncertain geopolitical environment, tiktok usage has gone down which in turn led to a dropoff in revenues from its client. having a tough day. direct to consumer insurance company lemonaid looking tart at this hour after credit suisse initiated coverage with an underperform, citing valuation concerns that's hitting the stock to the tune of 7.7%.

no such worries for chewy's grill and bar. brinker international stock popping about 3.8% after an upgrade from bmo capital markets which sees earnings doubling post-pandemic. can't wait for post-pandemic. peloton interactive getting the heart symbol at this hour from wall street after bank of america raised its price target to a street high of $150. stock is at $136.06 right now, up 3.5%. in essence, they are saying the fitness equipment and subscription company will be a holiday wish list darling. get on the wait list, everybody. finally, some insider buying to tell you about at fubo tv. this is a company that we brought to you in just the past couple of days. they just went public on the floor of the new york stock exchange. the chairman buying 200,000 shares totalling $2 million. fobu tv which focuses on live sports, up eight percentage

points intraday. all right. three letters moving at this hour for the markets. pp and p. the much-needed business loan program set for a stand-alone vote next week in the senate but which side of the aisle will get the credit for helping america's hardest hit businesses? two regional bankers in the thick of the storm. these people were writing loans right and left, 24/7, they are here to hash it out live. with the closing bell ringing in 45 minutes, the dow jones industrials down 42 points. "the claman countdown" economic undercard is coming right back. ok, just keep coloring there...

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liz: our economic undercard continues right here on "countdown." i want you to take a look at pej. this is an exchange-traded fund for leisure and entertainment, arguably one of the hardest hit sectors during the pandemic, down 28% year to date. but how much worse would that number look like, would the industry look, if it weren't for the paycheck protection program that treasury rolled out?

after mass closures and ppp money used to save salaries, there happens to still be $133 billion left over from the program, plus there's another $300 million left in the cares program. could that cares money go to ppp? treasury secretary steven mnuchin on fox business last night. >> we need authority to spend that money, so our choice would be to immediately use that money for small business, for more ppp money, second payments. liz: and if there is a second payment, a second round of ppp, what about this stunning news today. wells fargo fired more than 100 employees suspected of lying to obtain ppp money for themselves, money intended for desperate businesses. our economic undercard continues with two regional bank ceos who toiled 24/7 in the early days of the pandemic to distribute loans to local businesses. we are joined now in upstate new

york, roundout bank which was given $24 million in loans and helped save twoo2800 jobs and vy national bank helped save 170,000 jobs in the new york city and new jersey area. both ceos of those banks, cheryl bowers and ira robbins join us now. good to have you both. i'm going to assume you both will say this we need more money but i need to know if you were sitting in front of secretary mnuchin, how, ira, begin with you since you are the bigger bank, how you would make that case to both the treasury department and the american people? >> i think the case was made originally when you first sat down and said the ppp was a priority. congress and treasury went out and said we expect it to be for a certain period of time which was a couple months. covid lasted longer than a couple months. the fact that we haven't extended ppp or other fiscal programs to support our

businesses from that extended time makes absolutely no sense to me. if it made sense back in march and april, why does it not make sense today? liz: cheryl, give me some anecdotal evidence and not from the early days, but recently, the suffering that businesses are seeing because we have seen lockdowns ease up and we have seen some easing of restrictions, some restaurants are opening, businesses are allowed to open their doors. make that case right now that there's more to be done. >> there's a lot more to be done, liz. we are here upstate and we are a little more fortunate because the restaurants have been open for a longer period of time, but hey, we will have a heavy winter in a matter of weeks. they are not going to be able to serve food outdoors. we have gyms that are on very limited capacity or not open at all. you have laborers that are going to come to a grinding halt and this, in the hudson valley, more or less hospitality is our

industry. hotels are either not open or at very limited capacity. there's no weddings going on. this is a destination for weddings. i could go on and on with the list of needs. but as horrible as it was, and it got better, it's getting bad again and with money sitting on the table to support these salaries, it's just ridiculous. liz: ira, talk to me specifically about what you would change or alter about ppp if we got this second round. what needs to be fixed here? let's just pretend the treasury secretary is watching. >> look, i definitely believe [ inaudible ] some revisions associated with it. there doesn't need to be the size loans we made for certain organizations. we should make it targeted to the industries that are hit harder. make there be a look-back that says how bad has your business been impacted and can you demonstrate that. that said, getting the money in the hands of our small businesses as quickly as

possible is extremely important. the bureaucracy that's taking place today, no one is representing the small business owner in congress. at some point we need to put our political views aside and say who's going to represent the small business owner to make sure they stay in business? weather gets cold and when the weather changes, the business models that many of these industries have begun to put in place aren't going to work. it's congress's responsibility to be out there -- liz: what about -- let me defend the administration here. they are going to do major loan forgiveness for a lot of businesses that took $50,000 or less. i would think that's really quite generous and helpful, cheryl. what would you change, because i mean, this news out of wells fargo that 100 of their employees who were supposed to be distributing or working on this money, somehow allegedly weaseled the money for themselves as they were working. they had a job. they didn't need paycheck protection program.

so you know, there's got to be some type of ring fencing around it to make sure that doesn't happen again. what did you see? >> i think the ills of the few are guiding the majority, unfortunately. most businesses that i have had any conversation with were beyond desperate and needed the money, and there is still a whole bunch out there that still do. i agree, there needs to be better look-back. are the needs legitimate, are they documented. there should be a very separate standard of what we need to see in order to put a value on the need but to just turn the faucets off and keep them off is just not to me the right answer. so i think -- liz: great -- well, if there's a part two, we want to bring you guys back. either way, you have been doing yeoman work here. i'm sure your customers definitely appreciate it. cheryl, ira, good to have you on

our economic undercard. we do have about 36 minutes to go before the closing bell rings. the major financials who gave out big ppp checks are churning out big profits. and our big network at fox business was once the tiny underdog. fox business celebrating 13 years in the middle of the action. it is our anniversary and with the bell ringing in 35 minutes, "the claman countdown" is about to take a look back down memory lane. you want to see this. don't go away. our retirement pa gives us confidence. yeah, they help us with achievable steps along the way... ...so we can spend a bit now, knowing we're prepared for the future. surprise! we renovated the guest room, so you can live with us. oooh, well... i'm good at my condo. oh. i love her condo. nana throws the best parties.

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today? i was getting ready to make my debut with david asman, who was my then co-anchor on fox business which launched october 15th, 2007. in honor of our 13th birthday, i would like to take a walk down memory lane for all of you. over the years, team "countdown" has brought you some of the wealthie wealthiest, most successful investors in the world from warren buffett to bill gates, business geniuses like tesla's elon musk when nobody was paying attention. from silicon valley to the new york stock exchange to the white house, davos, switzerland, las vegas consumer electronics show, we have shown you some of the most innovative products and covered breaking business news during everything from the great recession, because that happened right when we launched, the historic bull run that followed, and now the current coronavirus pandemic. cheryl casone, you, stuart varney, neil cavuto, david, charles payne, connell and i are the originals. we are still here.

i was thinking about it. we worried about making it through the day, let alone years, and here we are 13 years later stronger than ever. what do you remember at that time? because you and i were on the same floor. cheryl: yeah. i remember that all we wanted that first day in the morning was just for the lights to go n on. that was victory at 5:00 in the morning that day. i have to remind you of something. you recall in 2007, we stole you from another network. remember, we had to wait to introduce you to our viewers and that was myself and david asman. we waited a couple weeks for you. i think the wait was certainly worth it. what a wild ride of 13 years. i got to say, remember rupert murdoch wanted to do something different with business news. he wanted to take wall street to main street. that was the goal back then. of course, he's a visionary and look where we are today and look at all that we achieved together. i think it's amazing, all the

people, what we have done. liz: i do have to thank the murdochs for one very important reason. they stuck with us. because we started off climbing, then we plateaued, and a couple years in, we started to fall again. but then we came back up and around 2018, actually, no, 2017, we started to beat cnbc. to me, to have somebody at the helm to stick with you through thin before we see any thick, is so invaluable. here we are. alive and kicking. cheryl: we are older. we are still here. still here. liz: but we don't look it. cheryl: we don't look it. i'll say that. we look the same. liz: let's get to the banks here. cheryl: yeah, big week for the banks. they are reporting their q3 earnings. we had morgan stanley and charles schwab release their numbers but here's the update. start with morgan stanley.

earnings were $1.66 a share. that was a nice beat, the revenue, $11.65 billion. wealth management has a standout, $4.66 billion in revenue for wealth management and trading was strong with equities trading giving morgan stanley $2.26 billion in fixed income revenue, the volatility helped them. morgan, like many wall street banks, have been trying to move away from wall street. they are focusing on wealth management, recently acquiring e-trade. so now to speak of wealth management, you have charles schwab. they have been in the wealth management business a long time. they are one of the nation's largest brokers. they net $2.4 billion in revenue despite commission-free trading and historically low interest rates here. earnings per share coming in, the actual number, 48 cents per share, as you can see. also, they just completed that massive $22 billion acquisition of td ameritrade. schwab is a behemoth, roughly $6

trillion in client assets across 28 million brokerage accounts. one more thing i got to say about you and i back in the day. we covered the great recession together and i remember just not sleeping. liz: yeah. yeah. i remember liz macdonald, another original, literally leaving for the end of her day and then rushing back through the subway when bear stearns started to blow up. we kept saying we got to fight through this and the bad guys would get it out saying nobody's watching, nobody cares, they're nothing, they're nothing, fox business will never survive. so yeah. see how that turned out. cheryl, great to have you. cheryl: love you. liz: my partner in crime. love you, too, babe. natural gas. why aren't prices suddenly heating up? is it cold weather forecasts giving nat gas prices a boost? this as one of the administration's top men is

looking to natural gas to help warm the energy in a key swing state. next, secretary of energy, dan brouillette, is here live on "the claman countdown." this is decision tech. find a stock based on your interests or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity.

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to know what's what. i'm proud to be part of aag, i trust 'em, i think you can too. trust aag for the best reverse mortgage solutions. call now so you can... retire better liz: take a look at crude oil prices and natural gas. we have joe biden, who is pushing for green energy jobs as the way of the future. president trump has also pushed very hard for coal to be revitalized. we do have crude oil down a fraction in the after market to $40.99. flip it over to natural gas. which is rising, but if you look at it historically, it is well off the highs from way back in 2008. nat gas is $2.78 per million

british thermal units. so as these two presidential candidates face off and biden pushes green, president trump's administration has pushed very much for crude, fracking, not to mention coal, what does that speak to for the future of u.s. energy consumption and energy businesses? energy secretary dan brouillette is in erie, pennsylvania, the heart of the marcellus shale. welcome, mr. secretary. thank you for joining us. this is a story of jobs, a story of clean air and water, a story certainly of big business and small business, emerging business. tell us what you're doing there. >> hi, liz. it's great to be back with you. yes, i'm here in erie, pennsylvania. i'm here in a local union hall with the plumbers today. we will be with the steamfitters and boiler makers talking about their concerns and the potential lack of jobs if we eliminate some of the technologies that have made the united states the number one producer of oil and gas in the world. i'm specifically talking about

hydraulic fracturing. the technology that's produced such a boom in the natural gas field and in the crude oil field. i'm also here to talk about some of the job creation that's occurring in the country and specifically here in the marcellus shale region. there's a giant facility being built down the road here and that facility will produce many of the plastic products that we take for granted in our lives today. you know, it's amazing when you look at the numbers, 96% of all of the manufactured goods in the world today have a direct connection to chemistry, and more specifically, chemistry that's related to the feed stock of natural gas. so very important industry, very important to the economy both here in pennsylvania and to the rest of america. liz: natural gas obviously burns way cleaner than coal. the trump administration has spent a good bit of the first term really touting coal even as many of these companies go out of business. a lot of coal workers say you

know what, i got to get trained into the jobs of the future. let's talk about specifically the fracking jobs and then we will get to green jobs. talk about what you see as this opportunity for fracking specifically as it pertains to cleaner natural gas that burns cleaner. >> well, what we are seeing is a transition. you just mentioned the price of natural gas and while it's up a little bit today because of the increased demand that's being created by this v-shaped recovery that we're experiencing, it is historically low and as a result, we have seen a transition to its use for the provision or generation of electricity over coal in certain cases. but by no means does that mean the end of coal as we know it today. perhaps it's used a little bit less to produce electricity, but it has a bright future in the sense that we can start to develop some of the rare earth elements that can be extracted from coal which are very important for the production of battery storage and that's important to the renewable

industry, renewable electric industry. so still a very bright future. what we are concerned about here in pennsylvania in particular is the potential elimination of fracking technologies, which produced that cheap gas in the first place. i have been told by the u.s. chamber of commerce that if we eliminate this technology, roughly 19 million jobs will be eliminated in america. think about that. 19 million jobs eliminated as we attempt to recover from a pandemic. liz: secretary, imagine that there are, i know there are, undecided voters right now who lean toward president trump but they also lean toward the future. they want a clean planet. they don't like some of the decisions that the epa under president trump has made, and some of these people are, yes, they are trump voters because they see what's been happening with their water. beyond the let's plant a lot of trees which we applaud, certainly, how do you convince

the undecided voter who leans toward solar, wind and power, to say you know what, he's got it? all we hear is this dissing of green energy, mocking of it. so clarify that for these particular viewers, if you could. >> well, i can't speak directly to the election but i will tell you what the record is. the record in america is we have produced all forms of energy and that process, that record, that approach, that policy approach, has produced an increase in our economic activity here of roughly 17%. at the same time, we have reduced carbon emissions from energy sources by roughly 14%. so there's no country in the world who can make that claim credibly. i will state it again. we have grown the economy by 17% and we have reduced carbon emissions by 14%. there's certainly no signatory to the paris accords that can make that claim. so that is the record, those are the facts. as we move forward, however, what we would like to do is to

continue this all of the above energy strategy that we have started. yes, we want to pursue renewable energy. yes, we want to pursue fossil energy development. yes, we want to pursue nuclear energy development which is emissions-free. it takes all of those things in order to produce the amount of energy that we need to grow this economy. liz: okay. secretary dan brouillette, we love our plumbers. let me tell you something. they are hard to find in new jersey. they are so busy. thank everybody in erie, pennsylvania. and thank you for joining us right here on our economic undercard on fox business. we'll be right back. did you know you can go to libertymutual.com to customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? really? i didn't-- aah! ok. i'm on vibrate. aaah! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn,

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liz: all right. on this 13th birthday of fox business, he's not an original, but he did come a few years in. 13 years, you know, i have actually dealt with charlie gasparino for 13 years, because we worked at cnbc together beforehand. oh, my god. this guy, let me tell you, we have had our ups, we have argued to the point where they talked about that on "good morning america." we got fights. we're like a brother and sister scrapping and scratching. you can't see charlie because he doesn't have a monitor. these pictures and video of me doing snapchat and holding up pennies. oh, boy. what memories. we were in davos together. charlie: that was great. i remember that. that was fun. by the way, i do remember that. "good morning america," talked about our screaming match, right? when i told you to shut up? liz: they did. charlie: you told me to shut up. liz: no, no, no. i told you.

you would never do that. i told you. you know what, that's how brothers and sisters are. you don't even remember the arguments. charlie: this is what happened. i said you are being rude, let me finish. you said oh, look who's talking about being rude. that was great stuff. liz: oh, my gosh. all right. we've got the presidential election 19 days away, but there's one election that's more than a year away but it's getting major attention. talk to us. charlie: yeah. the new york city mayor's race. we have the latest entry. listen, there are a bunch of people thinking about doing it. scott stringer, city comptroller. he manages the money in new york city which has one of the biggest budgets of any municipality in the country. eric adams, the brooklyn borough president, is talking about running. former cop. now we got ray mcguire, the vice chairman at citigroup. fascinating choice for him to

run. i know ray a little bit. good investment banker. very good investment banker, as a matter of fact. people like working for him at citigroup. he's a smart guy, good with numbers. he seems on paper to be perfect for this job. because new york city needs a numbers guy going forward, given how the pandemic has hurt the economy, particularly the budget. he's a moderate which a lot of people would like following the disastrous eight years of bill deblasio, where we have rise in violent crimes and obviously, the economy's not doing very well right now because of covid. that's not deblasio's fault. but a lot of people blame him for not opening up sooner. still, when i talk to democratic consultants, they are telling me this is going to be a big-time uphill battle and already, the opponents are zeroing in -- liz: sure. of course they would say that. charlie: let me finish. let me finish what i'm saying! liz: of course they would say that. charlie: let me finish what i'm saying. liz: no, you're rude. you're rude. charlie: this is actually a good

point here. what they're looking at is to try to tie citigroup around -- tie ray directly to citigroup and some of its problems. two sort of areas i hear they are going to attack him on. number one, citigroup, one of its major clients is saudi arabia. the saudi royal family. as you know, for a lot of reasons, that's very controversial, right? the other thing is that citigroup may have been in 2008, not may have been, was, the most bailed out of any of the banks. multiple trips to the white house begging for money. ray was there. i don't think you can blame him for the financial crisis stuff. that wasn't his department. but he was a vice chairman. the saudi stuff is interesting because he is a relationship guy so maybe he did handle that. we don't know. but already, political consultants are weighing in. we have a good quote, we should put it up, it's a full screen. i can't see the screen. is it up?

the quote? yeah, here we go. liz: yes. it's up. charlie: look what hank calls him. saudi arabia ray's business ties will not be forgotten. it's not a good time for banks and guys like ray mcguire, who have a lot of money, while people have had to make do with le less. hank has been around more than, you know, one of the better democratic political consultants. this is not some outlier. liz: full disclosure, i know ray and crystal very well. i just think that's politics. sniping at the moment. we'll be watching it. thank you. dow is now back down 23 points. we'll be right back. we're carvana, the company who invented

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♪. liz: big tech momentum stocks

are leading today's market retreat. you can see facebook, amazon, apple, microsoft, alphabet all are moving lower. some are slightly worse than flat but you can see facebook down 2% but these top names are still up significantly this year and our "countdown" closer says they're not cheap. don't fall in love with these stocks. they will not love you back at the moment. so what does? he has a little bit after flirtation or love affair with? george young has some names. what do you like instead of big tech which very much is the gift that keeps on giving? >> i think the theme here is investor psychology. a lot of people do fall in love with a stock and expect it to go up forever and ever. nothing grows to the sky you need to be sensitive to the seems very simple, buy low, sell high. but a lot of people tend to think once a stock gets going. it will stay up that doesn't happen. the unloved stocks what we want. we want to buy low, sell high. a couple names that appeal to

us, ehealth. that is company people may be aware of this is the enrollment season for medicare a lot of people need medicare supplements. they are not expensive but complicated. selling people to over 65, as 62-year-old it is a bifurcated market you need to sell through television advertisements, believe it or not. need to sell electronic i. you need to have a good staff to answer the phones. it's a cheap stock. plenty of room to grow. something people overlook and not aware of because it's a small cap. liz: some other names you like. we have up here. first hawaiian and euronet. i have to ask you, you're long-term optimistic? >> yes i am, yes i am. the market has had a hell after move. that is one thing that present as bit of a problem for investors. one of the things you may be aware of, if you look at the s&p it has done well this beer --

year. if you take out stocks i mentioned, "fang" stocks are up 40%. if not for those the market would be down 4%. [closing bell rings. liz: george young, three days of losses in a row. first time since september 21st that will do it for us. connell: we see fresh worries about the economic recovery and stocks sliding on stimulus concerns. we also had a surprise jump in job claims. connell mcshane welcome from the state of florida. own "after the bell" the major averages certainly closing off the lows of the. all three, dow, s&p, nasdaq are in the red. this is the third day we've been down. this is the longest losing streak in a month or so our swing state economy series brings us to miami. this was supposed to be the day of the second presidential debate in this