that is coming up on friday. get the questions in. we tell you, programing, larry kudlow will be on the show tomorrow. he is a favorite guest among our viewers. he sometimes moves the market. which always always have a very good, entertaining, interesting conversation with larry kudlow tomorrow. time's up. neil, it is yours. neil: thank you, stuart. the dow is down 52 points. a couple of developments. the stimulus stalemate you heard so much about, that even if democrats, republicans there can sort of mend their differences, they're not that far apart. it may be a moot point. getting the it done by monday, drop dead time, to vote on it, probably doesn't mean it will happen before election day. we'll give you the read on the latest. president trump campaigns for joe biden in number of venues. bringing in the big guns. president said, go ahead, he

didn't exactly do wonders for hillary clinton four years ago. we're on the latest theme park controversies going on in california. walt disney land not open yet. doesn't look to open anytime soon, even though businesses in and around the magic kingdom over there are beginning to reopen. meanwhile the magic kingdom on the other side of the country, florida, disney world, very much open. we're on top of all of those developments including getting ready for the the big debate tomorrow. the markets have an interesting way of playing off of that. we have the latest with hillary vaughn with the what is in store for the final presidential clash. hillary. reporter: neil, the stakes are clearly high because both campaigns have indicated their internal polling shows that the race is much closer than what public polling suggests right now. in a new survey from the university of new hampshire might explain why. according to the survey there are a lot of shy trump

supporters that feel like they need to hide their support. 68% of them say they will not put a trump sign in their yard. 64% say they are uncomfortable putting a trump sticker on their cars. so a tighter race really makes the final presidential debate critical for both candidates. joe biden has taken the entire week off the trail to do debate prep. letting his biggest surrogates do the work. bernie sanders stumped for him on sunday. president obama is holding a rally for him tonight in pennsylvania. trump has taken a different approach. he is blasting through battleground states from nevada on sunday and north carolina today. biden has been zooming from his home in delaware he did a local interview where he criticized senator ron johnson's report on hunter biden's. this is the last-ditch effort in the desperate campaign to smear me and my family.

this is the last debate. it will have six topics but none of them are focused on foreign policy which is a break in presidential campaign tradition. the trump campaign says this is steering topics away from biden and his son's overseas business dealings. the other break from tradition, will muting microphones for the two minute answer period after a question. we're waiting for clarity with candidates microphones will be muted if one candidate is interrupting too much. neil? neil: i wonder how they start that? i know they will warn about muting but, they give you one shot and then if you go over 10 seconds, then, i don't know. going to be a mess. could be a very good drinking game. i will get into that in just a second. in the meantime, it's a joke, it's a joke. we will have professional

coverage on fbn, i guarranty that. there is couple different takes what is going on in the markets. for example, down a little bit today. two competing views. one has a great article, got finished reading on market watch a few minutes ago. stock market investors are starting to focus on biden's narrowing lead against donald trump. i want you to juxtapose that against another article that has been focused on goldman sachs coming out with this idea of a blue wave. whatever your politics it will mean a green wave for the economy. it will be a lost spending that will be very stimulative. so no matter what the effect of tax hikes, it will be a offset by a lot of spending. reason why i mention these competing tugs in the market because they're very, very real. this latest market watch report about biden's narrowing lead has nothing to do with who ultimately wins, it could be so close it drags on for a while. keep in mind markets abhor uncertainty.

the premise of the market watch piece if it drags on for a while, looks that it could, narrowing as it has in a lot of polls, particularly battleground polls that means you don't get any closure on this anytime soon. markets abhor this kind of uncertainty. that is the case. one of the reasons writers of this article say this is dragging on stocks. i want to get the read on brian wesbury, first trust advisors chief economist. interesting piece, brian. you and i gotten into this whether election nights goes, drags on a while, many times see joe biden with a comfortable lead. it is not what it does. it does add an element of uncertainty for investors. do you buy that? >> yeah. obviously every election, especially these last couple of decades have been tight, tight, tight, right? we're in a way, kind of a 50/50 country. it comes down to the electoral

college. one thing i think about markets is that they often times, yes, uncertainty faces them and right in front of them but they know that in four weeks, six weeks, if you think about the next six or eight weeks, we're going to get news about a vaccine. we'll know who is in the white house. we're going to know what the supreme court looks like. obviously the election has something to do with what we do with that in the years ahead but a lot of this uncertainty is going to get out of the way so sometimes investors go, i see uncertainty in front of me today but we know it is going to disappear pretty soon. so you can often times just look through that. neil: you know, back to this goldman theory whether you like joe biden or not, sort of saying what a potential biden presidency could look like. >> right. neil: that will be big on spending, big on stimulus,, big

on bigger deficits if they're not big already, that could be actually tonic for the markets. what did you think of that? >> i, vehemently disagree with that idea that government spending will make the u.s. economy stronger. i'm not going to tell you it won't add, if we buy windmills and solar panels and create a whole new green new deal industry, that is going to be spending that will add to gdp the question is is it productive? i mean, everybody remembers the subprime crisis. people borrowed money at very low rates, bought houses that they really couldn't afford at higher interest rates, and we ended up with a crisis of. the same thing is true for the government. you can't borrow and spend your way to prosperity. greece has tried it. puerto rico has tried it. lots and lots of countries throughout history has tried it and it always ends in disaster.

so this idea we can spend our way to prosperity i don't buy it at all. i think it is a way of in a sense just kind of supporting a certain political idea, economic idea, that doesn't work. you can't spend your way to prosperity and so yeah, you can boost gdp for a couple of quarters but eventually you have to pay that debt back and america will have a problem if we do. neil: we piled up a lot of debt already. we have to pay that back. >> yeah. neil: a pox on both parties for that, right? >> absolutely. totally agree. it has been going on for decade. neil: yeah. i hear you, my friend. thank you very much, always good catching up with you, brian. learn a thing or two, i need to learn a thing or two. brian wesbury on all of this. this article is fascinating. when i think i cover all angles on stuff, this premise of a

tightening election and the impact on so-called certainties quoting from it, one ever the authors of it, while it is perhaps true that during the first two weeks of october risk markets were supported by a widening of u.s. presidential odds which by itself implied a lower probability of a crowser contested u.s. election result over the past week or so these odds have started narrowing again. the retrenching in u.s. stocks then can be attributed to the narrowing of the polls in the presidential race, not the lack of progress on fiscal stimulus plans in congress. in other words the view that a sure thing is not such a sure thing and one of those sure things that someone wins by a big enough margin, that was the implication with the biden polling that it is beyond dispute, this seems to be raising the possibility of polls narrowing not the one you're looking at right now, but with polls narrowing in general from where they were, that could be called into question. again markets aren't red or blue in that circumstance.

they're always looking out for the green. they don't know which way this goes. they don't like uncertainty. they have a mexican standoff. i have ethan berman, liberal commentator, radio host, we have lily galetta, culture ceo. lily begin with you, end with you. this premise, i get it, markets abhor uncertainty but it is narrowing of the polls adding to that. only two weeks to go, less than that, now, they would have to substantially narrow. we have to buy they're accurate. president says they're fake news and all that. if you look at the trend it certainly isn't good for him, but, but of late they point out the fact they have narrowed and that is adding an element of unpredictability for election day. what do you think of that? >> i think as you were saying very well, neil, we don't like uncertainty and anything that seems like it is going to be a contested election will be a problem but as you know we do a

lot of big data analytics. so the last week let me tell you that 3.6 million digital discussions that were positive discussions about both candidates were showing a very close tight race, 48% positive for president trump and 52% positive for biden. so again, who do you believe? i like to believe how we look at data because that is the unbiased, unsolicited voice of the people, that is at a national level. i think this notion of a lot of trump supporters in the closet, not volunteering their opinion or where they lean could be a surprise, but it is extremely tight especially with five or so key states in my opinion will be decisive november 3rd. at the end of the debate wee looking forward to needs to clear the air in terms of economy, jobs, how we get recovery, to bring the blame,

brought this depression, pandemic, we see we're closing down again. we have to understand what the plan will be to each candidate. neil: you know what is interesting, ethan, 40 million people already voted, that goes up a few million a day. it could be up to 80, 100 million, all said and done by election day, dwarfing in person voting. this big debate tomorrow, it's a big event, it is a big event so we're covering it on fbn so it is a covering it on fbn but it might be a non-event. if so many people have already voted, in the aggregate undecided voters, will it move the proverbial needle, what do you think? >> it is great, i love this topic, neil, we're living in unprecedented times on so many levels. we talk about the market like some certainty who will win the election. this has been a chaos presidency. it is full of uncertainty. the debate will shed little to new light because of the referendum on the sitting president. this is the first time we've

experienced it since the '92 election you and i remember, neil, where the sitting president is facing referendum on his own policies, what he has done. it is not so much about the opponent. it is about did this person fail in their first term as president? so the debate weakens trump because supposed strength was interrupting 128 times in 90 minutes with joe biden and chris wallace in the previous debate. with this muted mic business coming up, that takes away one of his perceived strengths, that is to cut off the moderator to attack joe biden while he is speaking. i don't think it moves the needle. i'm exciting we might not have results until november 10th. my prediction we'll know the week after close of elections we'll have actual results weigh can say who our next president is. neil: i'm curious how they pull off that cut mic thing. there are millions of viewers out there will want to cut my

mic, you do that with the president of the united states, the other guy wants to be president that can be a little dicey. lily, a quick take, the six 15 minute segments for this debate, each candidate two minutes to answer uninterrupted, some of the topics are fairly vague, leadership, american families, the president is protesting that, nothing on foreign policy and the rest. doesn't look like they're changing that. does that add to putting him on defense here. because he wants to mention the biden emails and all of that because the moderator presumably will not. what do you think? >> i think president trump will be trump and even if not asked he will have a way to weave those topics in because they are hot and he has been looking for that platform since, censorship is happening of the story on other channels. i wouldn't be surprised once again the answers that are asked are not necessarily tied to the

questions because this is that one last chance. sure, a lot of people. neil: maybe you're right. >> a lot of people decided millions cast votes but there is still questions what is the plan because we keep hearing on one side new politician there has been some results with the economy, then vice president biden 47 years as a politician, what are those key highlights? i think people want to know what exactly will you bring to the table that is different given your track record each of our -- neil: you know. they look like 47 years. he has done some things. he has not been a msnbc ba the last 50 years. i know where you're coming on the political argument. ethan, one of the things i wanted to ask you, they want to put joe biden on the spot. many recommended president not interrupt him. let him explain his position on packing the court. they say if the president were to do that, joe biden would be the one who is vulnerable what

do you make of that? >> i love that argument from the opposite side here. joe biden is a phenomenal speaker. he is resting this week. he is preparing for this event. and those who take the time to actually listen when he does speak he has well thought-out plans. he is progressive and democrats changed their mind when new data comes in. i love the argument he has been a politician for 47 years. he has evolved. neil: he is a little lumbering. he is getting a little old. he kind of lost his fast ball. i'm not here to criticize older people. i don't remember what i had for breakfast, who am i to judge. ethan, i it comes up a lot, he has exchanges with reporters, left unexposed, uninterrupted whether that could in fact hurt him. you say no? >> i just don't think it will. i really believe he knows his positions. he knows where he stands and it is always funny when people go

we don't know anything about joe biden. go to joe biden.com. anybody paid attention last several months knows where he stands unless you're listening to opposition who is attacking by the way i could spend all the time attack as well. we're not going to. i'm looking forward in tomorrow night's debate joe present a positive position when he expects to do when he is president next four years. neil: i hope they don't do that. i hope they get nasty and constantly have the mics cut. you want something more solid i deeply admire that i was not making light of that. it will be interesting. that debate tomorrow night here here. they are free to cut the president's mic, how do they do that? do they cut it immediately? give you a 10 seconds warning, you're 10 seconds over? how do they do that. we'll individual broken down for a drinking game here shortly. you're watching fox business.

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neil: all right. stimulus is it on or is it off? if you look in the house things are getting a little interesting, if you look in the senate, doesn't matter what is going on in the house because they are uninterested. chad pergram on the latest where

all of this stands. reporter: house speaker nancy pelosi yesterday was supposed to be the deadline, a self-imposed deadline to get deal so they could get legislative text developed later in the week. that did not happen. she continued conversations with treasury secretary steve mnuchin. they will talk again today, but things are looking up according to the white house chief of staff mark meadows. >> i can tell you that the negotiations have entered a new phase which is more on the technical side of trying to get the language right if we agree upon the numbers. we're still apart. still a number of issues to work on but the last 24 hours have moved the ball down the field. reporter: however a lot of lawmakers are in the dark. these talks are just between pelosi and mnuchin. what is unresolved are big issues, money for state and local governments, gop demand for liability protections. some republicans are willing to spend more if it is targeted. pelosi wanted legislative text

locked in by friday if the house were to vote before the election. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said the senate would consider whatever the house sends over but mcconnell wouldn't commit to doing it prior to november 3rd. some republicans have questions about what mnuchin is negotiating but not north dakota coat at that's kevin cramer. >> he has a better working relationship with the speaker probably better than anyone over here. that is good, that's valuable. i don't know -- that doesn't mean every republican will support it, the position he ends up with. reporter: a senior aide on capitol hill tells me don't believe the happy talk where they're going with these negotiations despite a lot of optimism being expressed by the administration here and keep in mind they still have to have the right mixture of republicans and democrats to get this across the finish line in the senate. you still have to have 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. neil. neil: do that point, house speaker nancy pelosi is giving

an interview on msnbc, chad, and she is talking about the prospect there is for a covid-19 aid deal. that lifted the markets, from certainly where we were, not dramaticchy. the markets think there is going to be some sort of a deal. are they whistling dixie here or what? >> it is really hard to see especially when you talk about the senate and i would flag one thing here, neil. keep in mind when the house of representatives moved a second coronavirus bill earlier this month, they lost 17 democrats on their side. that is right on the cusp of not having enough votes to move it with just democratic votes. that is a problem. some are wondering whether they move anything through the house of representatives but the senate is a major question. that's why when i talk to some people on capitol hill, they are skeptical. again just doing it before the election that is another big wild card. the senate will be in session this weekend dealing with the nomination of amy coney barrett. the senate would probably have

to be in session next week to deal with that. will mitch mcconnell, senate majority leader, would he want his vulnerable republican senators off the campaign trail two weeks in a row before the election? that is question. neil: that is high priority. thank you very much, chad. i want to go to democratic congressman henry cuellar on these fast-moving developments. always great to have you you. we're learning more what nancy pelosi is saying on the covid-19 relief package, she expects to resolve what she calls the appropriations piece of later today. she said earlier covid-19, a real deal is possible despite mitch mcconnell's comments. so do you think there is going to be a deal in the house on this before the election? >> you know i think the white house and speaker pelosi can reach a deal but, you know i was hearing what chad said and i

think chad is right on the point on that. what is the senate going to do? are they going to take some of those senators away from elections just the week before and some of them going to be happy with the amount of it? some of them don't like the amount and of course on our side we got some also progressives that feel it is too smalls also. so you got some folks thinking it is too big, some not enough. i hope two things they're working on. democrat the want to send assistance to the counties and the states. republicans in the white house said no to that. the other thing is limited liability. there are some democrats like myself that want to see some sensible limited liability not only for the small businesses but also for universities and other folks on that. so we're trying to find that balance and i hope that the

white house and speaker pelosi can find that balance. i know it can be done. the question is, can we do it before the election. neil: you're one of the few prominent democrats who would be open to limit liability protection. as you know, congressman, a lot of republicans are dead-set against a deal that doesn't include that. they're also concerned as you mentioned earlier about the aid to some states that they would be funding states that got into a pickle long before the pandemic with unfunded pension liabilities and the rest, that we shouldn't reward them with more money. if there was a carve quote, this was not money meant to try to restore or address those pension obligations and the like, would you be open to that? >> well you know again i would rather just provide assistance to all the states. there is quote, red states, quote, blue states. you know we're all americans. that is what i want to make sure that we help you know, people

that need the assistance, small businesses, the people that need -- neil: but what if it doesn't go to assistance? in other words, isn't that the fear, congressman, it doesn't go to assistance. it goes instead to those who want some help on, you know, underfunded pensions on some of these other state entitlements that are poorly funded and have been for many, many years and that that is something that shouldn't be countenanced or rewarded, what do you think? >> well you know again, i mean it is like, look at the state of texas. the state of texas from the cares act ended up with i think right now they have about $8 billion that they're holding on so they can use for the next session. so those are republicans using the cares act. so i can understand your question but again, you know the assistance goes to those states and then they can use it but i want monies to go directly to the cities and counties to help the folks that are not, lost a

lot of revenues on that. this is something that can be negotiated. republicans generally do not like assistance to the cities and the counties. republicans like this, and some democrats like them sort of sensible, limit the liability. so look, let's compromise. look at the two main issues and work something out that will work for both sides. that is what we do in appropriations every single time we meet. this can be done about it white house and can be done by speaker pelosi. neil: all right. we'll watch. you might have hinted at some middle ground that could be found there. congressman, be well, be safe, be healthy. we'll have a lot more on implications. that is what is drawing them apart. if congressman square that could be showing at least on

incremental basis a shift in thought and a shift in sentiment. it is still early. more after this.

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♪. neil: all right. a real quick update before we get to this biden story. nancy pelosi says she will be talking to treasury secretary steve mnuchin again two hours from now, 2:30 p.m. so i don't know where these talks are going but they're going. so we'll see. on the whole biden back and forth hunter biden, whether it is legit or not, emails are legit, curry favor with a business company to give them contacts with ukraine with his dad when he was vice president. a little bit of drama here. the fbi is holding the laptop allegedly containing all these emails. mike emanuel has more from washington. what do we know, mike. reporter: neil, good afternoon.

fbi officials are breaking their silence on the whole hunter biden matter. senator homeland security chairman ron johnson wants a background briefing. fbi is echoing what dni ratcliff said on fox business this week the intelligence community doesn't believe this is part of some russian disinformation campaign. the letter notes, quote, if actionable intelligence is developed the fbi in consultation with the intelligence community will evaluate the need to provide defensive briefings to you and the committee, pursuant to the established notification network. fox has confirmed the fbi is in possession of the purported hunter biden laptop. fox news obtained a drop-off list at the computer repair shop in delaware which appeared to show hunter biden's signature and paperwork from the fbi showing a receipt foreproperty. joe biden was asked about the laptop story last night. >> this is the same garbage, rudy giuliani, trump's henchmen.

last-ditch effort in a campaign to smear me and my family. the vast majority of intelligence people came out and said there is no basis at all. reporter: republican senator ted cruz says biden needs to answer many more questions. >> this whole inquiry is about joe biden who wants to be president of the united states and about whether joe biden was personally corrupt. the china emails are offering to pay over a million dollars to the big guy, to joe biden himself, cash in his bank account. the questions the journal asked there, did the deal go through? did he take the money? reporter: senior intelligence community officials the fbi learned it is lesson from the 2016 election. we were told it would rather not be a central part of this election too. neil? neil: mike, thank you very much. mike emanuel on all of that. i want to get the read from former congressman bob barr, former house manager during the clinton people peach trial, former georgia congressman as

well. -- impeachment trial. i want to get. into the biden s, how some republicans are warning the president not to go overboard with it, whatever the legitimacy, mike huckabee latest saying on this network, you shouldn't focus on hunter biden next couple weeks. it just doesn't matter to folks. what do you make of that? >> i think that is sound advice as far as it goes, neil. i don't think that it would be wise for the president himself as he is out on the campus the n trail to highlight constantly the hunt hunt, joe biden saga as it is. smelly as it is. it stings to high heaven and there are issues there. the job for the president to go to the american people in the final days before the election to talk to them about things that matter to them, the

economy, covid, international security and so forth. let other people talk about the hunter biden story because it does need to be talked about. neil: now, i'm sure, you're much more aware of these circles than i am, the president is going to want to bring it up tomorrow. there is very little expectations that the moderator of the debate will. so he is going to be tempted to bring it up. it might distract from that. if you were advising the president on how to handle this, leave it, focus on other things, much as it bugs you, what? >> i think, first of all it is very difficult to tell any president, much less this president what to say and what not to say. neil: true. >> but i think it would be wise advice to the president, he should listen to that advice, fine, mr. president, if you feel the need, an absolute need to bring it up that's fine but

don't focus on it, don't talk about that as a central theme of this final debate before the election because you need to be reminding the american people of why it is so important to vote for you, not why it is important not to vote for hunter biden or joe biden. neil: that's very well-put. while i have you here, congressman, yesterday i had a chance to talk to leon panetta, chuck hagel, both worked in the obama administration, one a democrat, one republican, republican sharing mutual concern about election day how we look to the world if it isn't resolved and that if people are disputing the results presumably on both sides, that it drags on and will look luke a banana republic. i want you to respond to this. this is from chuck hagel yesterday. what do you think the environment will be if this were to drag on, let's say 30 days or kind of like in 2000 phenomenon we don't know?

some are worried about violence. some are worried about uprisings. do you worry about that? >> i do worry about it very much f we do not have certification of a winner for a week or two weeks, that does run the risk of a militias taking the streets, of lawsuits, of calls of fraud and every aspect of, we won't accept this election. neil: do you think that could happen, congressman? >> i certainly am worried that those sorts of things will happen. i don't think that we will see rioting in the streets but i do worry that in terms, for example, as the former secretary was talking about in terms of how we are perceived by the world, that is a legitimate concern because if in fact our adversaries in particular, china, russia, and others, if they perceive that there is no

clear leadership and chain of command over the next few months between the election and january 20th, they could try and take advantage of that. so we have to be very careful, both sides do, that we do not conveyor portray to the world that there is not firm, continuous, clear, leadership at the top of the united states government in dealing with foreign nations. that is extremely important. neil: congressman bob barr, good catching up with you. congressman, be well, healthy, safe. bob barr the house manager during the clinton impeachment. sage advice. everyone step back, stay calm if possible. in the meantime here you know there is disney world open for business maybe not boffo business but open and then there is disneyland the other end of the country in california, not open for business and that despite around anaheim where

disneyland is they have had relatively stable covid case counts and the rest. let's say mickey ain't happy after this. ♪.

neil: big difference at either end of the country, east coast area, orlando, universal studios open there, not so when you go 3,000 miles to the west side where universal and studios is closed. william la jeunesse, what keeps them closed right now? reporter: neil, it would be eight months before universal, legoland and seaworld. the governor says big amusement parks must remain closed as long as infection rates around local areas remain high. local merchants call it devastating and irresponsible.

>> this is not just disney a huge conglomerate losing billions of dollars. these are mom-and-pop businesses. these are generational families that have been here in anaheim for a very long time. >> survival, getting down to the bear end here. i don't know how much longer we can do this. reporter: disneyland alone employs 32,000 workers. universal already cut 2,000 jobs. by contrast, theme parks in florida, including four at disney reopened four months ago with limits. disney paris, shanghai, hong kong also opened as well. in a statement the company says quote, in part we have proven we can responsibly reopen nevertheless the state of california continues to ignore this fact. instead, mandating arbitrary guidelines it knows are unworkable. california operates on a tier system. if more than seven people out of 100,000 get sick per day, a county remains mostly closed.

that is purple. when rates fall below one case per day that is yellow. hearing parks can reopen. stopping the virus the state says is more important. >> in let's say a theme park but when they are milling around the community their guard may go down. that could be just enough to create outbreaks and transmission risks that california just doesn't want to see. reporter: so disney execs say rules set down yesterday, neil, discriminate allowing outdoor pro sports like football reopen on less retrick tiff tier. disney produces 8 billion for california. unemployment rate. back to you. neil: eight months that is how long you might have to wait to see these guys open again. by the way that dovetails very nicely with my next story that amazon is allowing workers right now to continue, a good many of them continue, if they want from

home nor another eight months which takes us to june 2021. scott shellady here on the significance of that. i'm not really surprised. in the new york metropolitan area as you know, scott, they're pushing back broadway reopening until at least the middle of next year. a lot of things moved to the middle of next year. so disney, universal all these other parks are not alone. what do you make of it? >> firstly i would say if cuomo and newsom want to do that they should forgo their salaries until things open up, 25%. live on 25% of their salaries. they need to feel the pain they put on their constituents. i think these are good ideas, well intentioned ideas that are just really bad ideas too because the unintended consequence of having these things locked down, you will not have any tax revenues. you will have to give up services. we're going through that here in chicago. think of the knock-on effect, and that woman was right. there are mom-and-pop businesses

affected by disney not being open. if you have places if you're not going back to work the buildings are not going to be occupied. there are businesses in the ground floor of the building i'm in right now are never coming back because this building is empty. if you can't travel to new york, 43 states can't go to new york. that is another impediment to growth. not going back to the buildings, that is impediment to growth. these things are slowing down the recovery and also have a damaging effect on the mental health and all the other things. again, great example of what we're trying to do to stay safe and have a good idea and make sure everybody is cotton wool and bubble wrap is going to make this a lot longer and hurt a lot more. neil: we already know that a lot of states are hurting. better than 35 of them now are looking at at this billion dollar deficits virtually all of them have to have a budget balance by the end of the new fiscal year. some of them like new jersey tried to change the fiscal year to push it out three months. now it is what it is.

in the case of new york it is facing a 59 billion-dollar short fall. and, you know, that isn't going to improve anytime soon. there isn't enough federal government money in the world to help these states. and yet they need something. so i'm just wondering, part of that something might be just getting back to business but they don't and they can't or they won't? >> it is they won't. they're deluded in their thinking. at the end of the day you have to reopen or shutting down again is not an option. for some reason they think they can play god. there might not just be the we have the money to lock down again. what will you do then? we have to learn to live with it. it is cold, flu, covid season right now. if you don't want to get sick, don't go out. there are common sense decisions to make our own decisions about our own safety like we do with things in our lives that can get the economy going faster. not allowing people to travel state to state, bad idea,

impediment to growth, hurts your commerce. not allowing people to go back to the office, a bad idea. all these things are hurting our growth. i know they're well intentioned but they are bad, bad ideas. neil: scott, thank you very much. when we come back, more on the hummer. an electric hummer. it seems like an oxymoron but it isn't. it is happening now. ♪ you've still got game.

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neil: all right. we're all waiting for a vaks ev vaccine. now along comes news saying a vaccine will not necessarily eradicate a likely endemic, that it isn't an instant cure and shouldn't be treated as such. stocks are selling off in britain on that news. no impact here in the united states as they deal with a flareup of cases in europe. more after this. or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity.

neil: welcome back. we're concentrating on markets right now that are back down. they have been all over the map today. a lot of this seems to hinge on whether there's progress on stimulus or not, confusion about the election, with frightening polls and all that. you can throw a lot of things at this and attach it to the wall and see what sticks. for now, there had been earlier optimism that nancy pelosi and steve mnuchin, treasury secretary, were making progress on finding common ground on another coronavirus stimulus package that would be roughly in the $2 trillion range.

nancy pelosi sort of doubled down on that, saying she is going to be having another phone call with the treasury secretary about 2:30 eastern, about 90 minutes from now. again, all this might be a moot point because the senate has made it clear, certainly mitch mcconnell has made it clear that he's not a fan of some of the big numbers that they're putting up on this, that most republican senators who make up the majority of the senate after all aren't keen on some of those eye-popping numbers either. so it would presumably go nowhere if it went to the senate. that back-and-forth and whether the president intervenes to say to the senate i really want you to do this, barring that, it could be much ado about nothing. we will keep an eye on it. meanwhile, we are keeping an eye on battleground states that are so important. you hear a great deal about the president losing ground in some of the same states he won, but, but he is gaining ground in a state he barely lost. that state is minnesota. connell mcshane right now in south st. paul, minnesota with more. connell, what's going on there? reporter: well, pennsylvania,

michigan, wisconsin get all the attention but to your point, minnesota was so close last time, the president only lost it by about 1.5%, so the trump campaign has been coming after this state ever since. just like he can in other parts of the country, he can make an economic argument here. we have looked at small business numbers, for example, which we often do, and sure, they were hit hard by covid but a new survey did show that this community's faring slightly better than the national average. we are actually broadcasting from a minnesota business right now we will tell you more about today on "after the bell." unemployment peaked at 9.9% in may but it's about 6% in the most recent reading, so getting better. to be sure, though, mr. trump has challenges here in minnesota. they are similar but they may be more pronounced than what he faces in other parts of the country. i will give you an example. we were driving around the suburb of edina and so many snow-covered lawns in october are covered with biden/harris signs. all over the place. you see a lot of signs also

supporting the black lives matter movement which is quite active here after the killing of george floyd in minneapolis. you see signs like that, they turn into conversations like this with minnesota voters. >> obviously, everything that went on here in minneapolis with george floyd, racial inequalities that are going on, you know, women's rights, so many things are being brought to the forefront. >> i live here where the violence happened with warnings for my personal yard and property and the people causing trouble were not the demonstrators. they were peaceful. reporter: the polling lead does go to joe biden here in minnesota as it has throughout this contest, although i should point out, the lead for biden has been getting smaller in some of the more recent polls compared to where he was over the summer. that's why the president is, in his own words, going to give it a shot here in minnesota. that's what he said on that call with campaign staffers earlier in the week. there aren't many blue states the trump campaign is targeting. probably this and nevada are the

ones they mentioned. back to you. neil: all right. thank you, connell, very very much. you will see connell about three hours on this fine network. meantime, i want to go to jackie heinrich with the biden campaign right now. joe biden will be out on the trail for a little bit today. what's going on? reporter: well, as far as we know, i think joe biden is at home today. we've got the biggest name, his biggest weapon that democrats have to stump for him, former president barack obama is heading down here to philadelphia. it's the site of his first solo in-person campaign event in 2016 for hillary clinton. that was in mid-september that year. it's also the site of his very first event for his former vp but it's happening just two weeks before the election. it's a place of a lot of significance for the former president. he delivered a pivotal speech on race as a candidate here in '08, then this year during the dnc he

issued a stinging rebuke of president trump from the museum of the american revolution, accusing trump of stoking racial fears. today, obama is expected to direct a portion of his remarks toward black men, highlighting the importance of african-american turnout in philadelphia which contributed to clinton's loss of this state in 2016. obama will try to drive up turnout and bring biden to victory. the push comes late in the game. obama has been late to the trail because he was finishing his book but after a report warned that obama said don't underestimate joe's ability to "f" things up, his absence has at times been questioned. but his events rank among the highest in terms of views and fund-raising. recently he's been praising his former vp virtually like on this podcast this month. >> -- understands the importance of surrounding himself with people who are smart and believe

in science and believe in expertise and believe in, you know, institutional knowledge and experience, so you get that combination, it means that his north star will be good. reporter: so obama's going to be urging people to make a plan to vote early, given that this state has had some balloting disputes and some voting lawsuits. all this as joe biden is at home in delaware preparing for tomorrow's debate, as far as we know. neil? neil: jackie, thank you for that clarification. my apologies there. thinking joe biden was going to be with barack obama on this. he is not. i'm wondering if that helps or hurts the campaign. obviously they look at polls and say that whatever strategy he's using, whether you can say he's hiding in his bunker or whatever, it is working in those polls. elena treen from axios on that. what do you make of that? they look at the polls, they say, these are the biden folks, if this is hurting us, it has a

funny way of showing up in the polls because it's not hurting us, and that the strategy or in this case, he's preparing for the debate, it will be three straight days he hasn't gone out, so presumably that's his focus. what do you think? >> well, i think you are totally right. it's not, from all the criticism you are seeing from the right and from joe biden's critics, it hasn't shown that it's impacting him negatively in the polls. it's something that he spent a lot of time over the summer in this key crucial month of the campaign at home, trying to show that he cares about the coronavirus, he cares about the safety of others, didn't go out on the trail as much as we have seen president trump do and he's still far ahead in most key polls. it's not really affecting him. he has spent the past few days to prepare for tomorrow's debate. of course, i was just listening to one of the president's top aides say on fox news channel earlier this is a key attack the

president will use tomorrow night, that he doesn't get four days to stay at home to prepare for a debate but it has been working for joe biden, so i think despite all the critics, it's really going to matter, you know, whether he wins or not and if it's working for him they will continue that strategy. neil: you know, obviously a lot of focus on the debate tomorrow and i was thinking, 40 million or so, close to that, have already voted, and when you look at the nation as a whole, and the number of undecided voters, very very few, so will the debate have a chance to move the needle if so many, a, have already voted and there are millions more ballots out there, or is it too late to change things for the president? if you buy these polls. they are narrowing because the president has been making a point of that especially in battleground states, but what do you make of that argument that it might not be as helpful? >> well, that's the thing with debates. they don't normally move the needle that much.

yes, potentially with some voters but not on a grand scale. they don't normally have this massive impact on voters who at this point in the race, are already, like you said, have already voted in many places or have already made up their minds ahead of november 3rd. we are less than two weeks away so unless there's something massive that comes out of these debates, it's unlikely to move the needle that much. then again, we did see the president had a very deeply unpopular first debate. it's something many of his top advisers and people on his campaign told me that they really want to rectify heading into tomorrow night. so if it can help him a little bit, if the president, what they're saying, they are hoping he will show a little more restraint, not interrupt joe biden as much as he did back in that september debate. it couldn't help with some voters, especially on the likability scale, what they are telling me. but overall, it's not expected to make a massive change to voters in their opinion and the public opinion ahead of november 3rd.

neil: how do you think the president and how would joe biden react to having their mics cut if they go over? >> well, the president's campaign we have seen already criticizing that very harshly. tim murtaugh, his communications director saying something to the effect it's a ridiculous thing they are instituting but for many people i talk with, they expect that the president will probably continue to try to speak over even if it's not on the microphone, speak loudly if he thinks joe biden is saying something that's not accurate or if he thinks he's being unfairly treated. but it is an interesting tact, i think everyone would agree the first debate was very chaotic, a bit super-messy. we saw fox news host chris wallace, who was the moderator that night, of the debate, saying it went completely different than he had planned for, so they are hoping this will add a little bit more structure and give each candidate a chance to really share what they are thinking from a policy perspective and

also just being able to speak without the chaotic back-and-forth. we'll see if it works. it will be interesting to see if they still try to continue to interrupt despite their mics being cut. but it's the first time we have seen that. it will be interesting to see how it works. neil: they are going to be 12 feet apart. they could shout at each other. you would hear that if the mics are off or on. it will be interesting. we'll see what happens. great job giving us the lay of the land ahead of the debates. s scott martin with what wall street might be looking at in terms of the debate. we do know right now the president is still angry at lesley stahl for the "60 minutes" interview from which he walked out. i'm wondering that if it got really heated or problematic, this could make the first debate look calm by comparison. what do you think?

can you hear me? all right. we have an audio issue. we will try to fix that up. again, a lot of attention being focus order the debate tomorrow night and how the president, for that matter, joe biden will respond. remember, a lot of republicans were telling the president you shouldn't interrupt him because when he has to clarify things, you give him a dodge and a pass where he can and sometimes he stumbles on his answers. they argue a lot on his answers. we will see tomorrow night as the debate and our coverage kicks off at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. then the debate itself at 9:30. goes 90 minutes. we will have a post-debate reaction to that. there could be some fireworks there. they are trying to minimize all of that in nashville. but you know, we'll have to wait. more after this. i searched and found sofi and applied for a personal loan.

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you aren't going to get the revenue numbers by just taxing the rich. the only way, the only way a tax increase will generate revenues is to go after the middle class. that's where the numbers are. these people are being misled. the problem is when you go after the middle class, you begin to attack the backbone of the economy and we will have a bad recession. neil: all right.

ken langone saying earlier today he doesn't think going after rich guys like himself alone as joe biden promises to do will yield anywhere near the amount of money that joe biden wants and it will not help the economy either. scott martin back with us. i hope we fixed our technical issues. i apologize for that, scott. what do you think of what langone was saying there? you can be searching for revenues all you want, but you're not going to get it exclusively from the rich. >> yeah. two words he used, backbone and attack. attack certainly being one that doesn't sound good in this global pandemic environment where the economy is, yes, coming back but certainly hurting to fully recover and backbone. middle class being the backbone, yes, but in illinois, my goodness, they are going after high income earners, they are going after small business owners here, and those are your spenders. those are your people that go out and spend on big ticket items.

toes a those are the ones that created a lot of the jobs in the state here so to have that going on alongside what we think is going to be a difficult winter, certainly for a lot of the markets and economy, seems questionable to me. neil: you know, i wonder if i can pick your brain on this. it was a market watch article but i had a lot of interesting stuff that goes sort of outside the traditional views of the market. and based some of the contraction we have been seeing on these contracting polls. in other words, the biden lead narrowing, not expressing a political preference for either biden or the president, but that it adds to the uncertainty that this won't be resolved election night and markets abhor uncertainty, that the tighter the polls get, the more likely it is this drags on for awhile. it's interesting premise. what do you make of that? >> i think the markets actually are counting on it. it's actually maybe that is the certainty, that it's going to be uncertain. maybe the market might be even disappointed we get a reaction or result right away. i believe the market's expecting

things to be drawn out. so to me, as the market gets more information, as we get closer to that fateful day depending on how you look at november 3rd, the market is beginning to take in i think some of that information better and better, so what actually happens with respect to the chaos on november 3rd and going forward may not affect the market as much, because the market's already factored it in. neil: goldman sachs might have been one of the buoyant spirits on this saying with joe biden, you are going to get a lot of spending. it's going to wreck deficits as if they're not wrecked already. and you know, that could be constructive economic development. many, many disagree with that, by the way. what do you make of that? >> i agree with it. i think both parties seem to be wanting to spend, especially coming out of a difficult economic situation which i think is good. the question is what money are they going to spend? are they going to borrow and finance that deficit spending on

the government's dime, in the case of some of the republicans and say cut taxes and cut regulations, or in the case, what we are seeing locally in illinois, with the state tax being proposed to being run up and being in a graduated rate, the mayor here just came out with a new proposal because we got a billion dollar budget deficit in the city of chicago, more tax hikes for property tax owners and certainly property owners with tax hikes and gas taxes, so the question becomes, does the government spend more of its own money or does it spend more of your money, as the income earner, as the small business owner and say we know what's better to do with your money, mr. taxpayer or mrs. taxpayer or mrs. business owner, versus what you know what to do with it, and that to me is the scary thing. it's one way or the other and i believe voters will eventually make their call on that hopefully sooner than later. neil: scott martin, thank you very very much. good catching up with you. real quick, i know charlie gasparino has some other stories to pursue here. charlie, your thoughts on the markets and now this, you know, these contracting or narrowing

polls and that it's added a level of uncertainty, no matter who you like in this race. what do you think? charlie: i think you got to look at the options market, not the stock market. the stock markets today are trading off of more doubts on stimulus and you know, we have been reporting that it's going to be very hard to get a stimulus deal, even a skinny, thin stimulus deal because nancy pelosi and the white house want to go big, mcconnell doesn't. that's where the markets are. the trade to look at, i think, really is in the options market. i think the volatility has gone down dramatically in that market, meaning that traders are now betting it won't, even though we are getting tightening polls, it won't be a long drawn-out process. at least that's what i'm hearing now. you know, we can speculate all we want but the real sort of bet on a contested election is in the options markets and that trade is done. it was big. we reported it months ago, that people were pricing it in, and

this volatility in the options trading, we don't get that now. here's the thing, neil. the polls, the betting odds polls, if you look at that, have narrowed. some of the battleground states have narrowed. but still, you know, it looks like it's still going to be very difficult for donald trump to really pull this out this late in the game. i mean, like i said, not impossible. obviously there's a debate tomorrow night, right, which should be pivotal, right. joe biden's tax plan has not gotten any vetting from other than us and the "wall street journal" editorial page and the "wall street journal," very little vetting has gone on. listen, we are talking about a 180 from what trump has done and you can criticize donald trump's disposition, how he's talked about the virus, the pandemic, but his policies have been

pretty mainstream and his economic policies have worked for large part. we are not in a depression right now because steve mnuchin, larry kudlow, trump, the whole gang, mitch mcconnell, pushed for massive stimulus, the fed was on board. the economy right now is not in dire straits because of that. and you know, the other thing, neil, i'll be honest with you, i look at stuff, details of how people approach the pandemic. i have a vested interest in it. my brother is on the front lines, as you know. he runs the icu at brooklyn hospital. he actually contracted covid, had a couple bad days there. so i look at, though, the policies of trump on covid. i look at the -- i look at what biden and nancy pelosi have said and there's really no difference. i mean, he handled it the same way everybody wanted him to handle it. the way fauci was saying to handle it. where he erred i believe was in

his disposition. verbally he didn't lead as well and maybe that's what's hurting him in the polling right now. but if you look at policy wise, the president has done a decent job and maybe the polls are tightening on the notion that do we really want to do a 180 right here. neil: you're right. we are cut for time here but look, that could be a very interesting development. they are what they are. they are narrowing now, to charlie's point, whether it makes a difference by election day is anyone's guess but some of these battleground states have gotten within three or four points. something's changing here. how long it lasts might depend on this debate tomorrow night. stay with us. the dow down about 35 points. . with the coverage of 5g nationwide. and, in more and more cities, the unprecedented performance of ultra wideband. the fastest 5g in the world. it will change your phone

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neil: all right. you heard about the quandary a lot of tenants feel right now, way, way behind on their rents and right now while the government has made sure they can't be forcibly thrown out of

their apartments, along comes a vote that advocates for canceling these rents all together. in the article, i quote here, the answer to the housing crisis isn't a moratorium on evictions that only delays these violent events while further indebting renters in the interim. we should cancel rent outright as this pandemic rages and we should work toward a world where landlords no longer hold this sort of power over people's lives. we need a housing movement based out of rejection of the construct that any one person should own this earth's land. of course, for landlords, that might be a striking new development for them but again, they have bills to pay themselves. the fallout from this, if it were to ever progress beyond this, it's anyone's guess. carol roth joining us, kat tims. carol, what do you think? >> i think adult vogue needs to come pick up teen vogue at the

party because it's been drinking again. look at this amazing website. they tell you how much they hate capitalism. they tell you that we should cancel rents and landlords and you find out what shade of makeup is best for your skin type and about arianna grande's perfume. it's this incredible cognitive dissonance around the concept of rights. this is a generation that thinks everything is a right, you should have free rent, you should have free school, you should have free health care, except for our actual rights including property rights. i just don't know where the parents are in all of this. neil: i'm wondering, say you want to pursue this, there's got to be a way to pay for that, right? they don't spell that out. >> yeah. they don't spell that out. look, you find yourself agreeing, right, when she's saying landlords are bad, they charge too much money. i cannot stand my landlord and that is not a new thing.

we have been in arguments with them over, you know, what we're paying for versus what we're getting in the pandemic, et cetera, et cetera. terrible. however, how do you pay for it? not liking something, it would be better if this was free for everyone. doesn't make it free because the landlords, that's how they make their money. there are people who have jobs building these things, maintaining these things. how do you pay those people. again, wanting something to be free, would it be better for everyone if that was free, if everything was free, yeah, that would be nice. but it's not. so now what? neil: one of the things it also raises is the fact of how unfair the system is, how rigged it is. a lot of landlords, both on the commercial side and the residential side, are in a world of hurt themselves. they have bills to pay, too. they have seen rent income tumble. it's not totally dissolved, in

cases like new york city, a record number of empty apartments and it could accelerate in cities like chicago and l.a. and philadelphia, atlanta. i'm wondering where this goes. if you treat housing as a right, then you've got to start adding a lot of other rights. carol, what do you think? >> yeah. then you end up with section viii housing and government-owned housing. we all know how well that turned out. i think one of the things that has happened here is that we have lost the branding around capitalism and eat the rich that we forget how much of this falls on the middle class and small guy. the reality is you look at the census data from 2018, 78% of the landlords for these individual properties are individuals. these aren't just big corporations trying to extract money from you. these are individual people who are trying to earn a living, they have made an investment and

they also owe money to the bank. so eventually, there needs to be some discussion around personal responsibility and i think the best way to benefit everybody is if the government stops spending. if you didn't have insane levels of property taxes, perhaps maybe we can make some in-roads here. neil: you know, i don't want to get into your personal situation with your landlord, but are you finding that the landlord companies in general or maybe your own in particular are more flexible or worried about having to be more flexible in this environment, where you could quite rightly be the one calling the shots? >> you know, you might think which was kind of my point in my discussion with them just yesterday, because our building is quite empty. we still have time left on our lease. losing a lot of neighbors in the building, gaining a lot of neighbors in the form of a tent city a block away. you would think they would want to work with us a little bit. they don't.

they are terrible. again, doesn't mean everyone can just have housing for absolutely free because it's not free. it costs to build, it costs to maintain, it's just not free. unless there's a genie access in whoever wrote this article has access to some sort of genie i will stand corrected and apologize but otherwise, no. doesn't work that way. neil: it might be a great negotiating tactic. start at zero. you don't want to pay anything. see where that goes. >> i should talk to you first, neil. neil: throw it out there. guys, thank you very very much. it's wild but this is the age in which we live. a lot of people do feel entitled to this sort of stuff. a lot more on that. we have some disturbing news out of astra-zeneca. you heard a lot about its covid-19 trial. a volunteer has died, apparently. we are not sure whether this was an individual that earlier

contracted meningitis, i think i'm talking about the same drug company, but astra-zeneca, oxford university confirming this happened in brazil. they said the testing would continue after this volunteer's death. no further details provided. astra-zeneca shares started trending down on this development. stay with us.

neil: all right. we've got the covid-19 cases, the numbers to tell you about. they are beginning to look a little more stable than you see in the traditional press, particularly in the hospitalization and tragically, the death front. we will get to that in a second. but there are problems attached to this whole thing, including a jump in opioid cases. lauren simonetti with more on that. lauren: yeah, this is an

instance where two crises have collided. we are seeing the number of fatal drug overdoses this year is already at a record high and we are not done with the year yet. 74,000 deaths as of march and take a look at this. more than 220,000 americans have died of covid-19. so these are two big problems. experts say the pandemic is fueling the nation's drug epidemic. >> across this country, only 2 in 10 people who wanted treatment for their opioid use disorder could get treatment. so we have stress, we have isolation for some, job loss worry. these can all increase risk for use. lauren: not to mention, the disruption of the cross-border drug trade. that's prompted some users to resort to using an unfamiliar product. we don't have national data just

yet but i can tell you this. these states, about five to nine of them have reported overdose deaths that are far outpacing 2019. look at kentucky. fatalities are at 30% higher than all of last year. colorado and new jersey, not too far behind. if you look at specific cities like san francisco, lethal drug overdoses have now surpassed the number of covid deaths four to one. it is overwhelming health systems, police departments and certainly communities. the news this morning, purdue pharma, the maker of oxycontin, now agreeing to plead guilty to three criminal federal charges for their role in creating the nation's opioid crisis. it will shut down and likely pay more than $8 billion. now, that's money that will go towards treatment programs. many of those treatment programs because of covid-19 have been telehealth programs, varying degrees of success there, and also some cities have been more

widely distributing anti-overdose medications, if you will. neil? neil: got it. lauren, thank you very much for that update. in the meantime, we are getting a little more news about this astra-zeneca development, now conceding that a volunteer in a clinical trial for its covid-19 vaccine has died. the latest data they are getting, we don't know if it's led to a halt on future trials but regulators said the testing of the vaccine would continue regardless eventually. it didn't provide any details what happened to this person but of course, in brazil, where they have had a serious spike in cases, i believe the most pronounced in the world, on a percentage basis, 154,000 have been killed by covid-19. the united states runs second to that. but again, in this particular case, what happened with this particular treatment, we just don't know. but it is hitting the stock. it's falling down a little bit. the implications are reminders here that vaccines that look

like good things can be delayed things, not denied things. dr. roger kline of heartland institute is with us. doctor, so much we don't know. very good to have you back. i think last time you were with me, we were talking about don't get ahead of yourself on vaccines or treatments, lot of things they have to make sure are just right. this happens along the way. your thoughts? >> yeah. hi, neil. thanks for having me. i think we can't make too much of it. we really don't know enough to comment. they are testing these vaccines on thousands of people so people die for all kinds of reasons. i think we need to learn more before we jump to conclusions. but i think it seems as if the fact that people are talking about continuing testing, particularly regulators, suggests that perhaps this may be even unrelated to the vaccine. i think we just need to wait and see what transpires. neil: you're quite right, being

the astute doctor you are. i left out the part of that, this could be an unrelated development. i'm glad you mentioned that. doctor, i do want to step back and look at where we stand with the virus right now. people worry about spikes. we had a 60,000 plus spike in cases yesterday. the united states seven-day average has been picking up, but hospitalizations are stable, deaths are down, people who if they had gotten this at the start of the pandemic in february or march almost surely would have been hospitalized, those in dangerous groups, very likely could have died. they are surviving this now. am i overinterpreting and evaluating where we stand now? what's the real case, in your eyes? >> i think you're right. what we're seeing is we are seeing declining death rates from this disease and it's two studies have recently come out that suggest part of that is due to better medical management and increased drugs, better therapies, and it's also due to

decline or a skewing of the cases toward younger, healthier people. i think this is all really, these are positive developments. i think it's not -- it's not unexpected to see increases in cases as we move into colder months. people start spending more time inside, people are getting together in other areas so i don't think that's coming as a surprise. what we want is two things. we want the death rates to be low. we want to try to decrease the death rates and we want to make sure the health care system doesn't get overrun. if we can do those two things, we are doing very well with this epidemic over which quite frankly we have only limited control. the way we can control it is through vaccines, development of an effective vaccine and through medications, and then really trying to shield people who are

most at risk from dying from it. neil: in california, real quickly, they are implementing what they call thanksgiving day procedures. they want to limit family gatherings, the size of them. they don't want quite literally too many cooks in the kitchen. limit public exposure, separate at your table. what do you make of that? the first state to at least kick around that kind of thanksgiving day procedure. >> well, you know, from a medical or scientific standpoint, it's clear the more exposure you have to people who potentially have the disease, the more likely you are to get it and can spread it. what people should be able to do from a personal choice is a completely different issue, which i think requires a broader analysis. but sure, the more people you come into contact with and the closer and more prolonged that contact is going to be, the greater chance of contracting the virus. neil: doctor, thank you very much. always learn something, a lot of things from you. dr. roger klein of heartland

institute. thank you. we will see how this trend goes. you probably know by now that google has a big old target on its back in an antitrust case the justice department is raising that has a lot of people saying break it up. but look at the wall street reaction. it's up today. it was up yesterday. why is that? something doesn't seem to connect. is it wall street's way of saying we don't see this going anywhere? or their way of saying yeah, we see this going somewhere and the breakup could be good for these guys? so you're a small business,

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neil: an electric hummer? unbelievable as it sounds, jeff flock here in naperville, illinois to tell us it's real. jeff? reporter: it's actually a good thing, i think. this is the buick gmc dealership that will be selling, remember our old buddy woody? he's ready to sell you a new electric hummer. take a look at this. it looks a bit like the old hummers. it's a truck. mark royce told us it's the world's first super-truck. we'll see about that. but it is 1,000 horse power and 0 to 60 in three seconds. it's got underarmor, body

cameras, it's crazy. mark says you know, this is a truck and listen to this, elon musk, this is the truck to have. the electric truck to have. listen. >> there's lots of different modes for the driver as well. some things, people have never seen before like an actual mode where we have four wheel steering and can actually do things with the truck, again, that have never been seen before, frankly. reporter: that crab walk, just so you know, is a deal where you can steer with all four tires. if you get stuck in a place, you can actually go to the side. i have occasionally gone sideways in a vehicle but not normally on purpose. but this enables you to do it on purpose and safely. woody has already gotten 40, he tells me, inquiries about this vehicle already and they already sold out the first version which

costs 112 grand. neil? neil: not too shabby. only you can afford something like that, jeff. it's very interesting to watch. jeff flock on electric hummer. can you believe that? well, [ inaudible ] has been humming for the past two days even with the government ready to slap an antitrust case against the technology juggernaut. a business law attorney is here. it doesn't make sense to me, seth, the stock would be up two days on the prospect of the government going after it. what's going on? am i missing something? >> no, i think you're right. it seems like the street is pretty underwhelmed. it's an interesting situation because this is really the first wave in a new war between washington and big tech, and just late yesterday, the justice department together with 11 states filed a new landmark antitrust lawsuit against google, but there are a number of defects and problems that are presented in that case. first of all, you have the vehicle in which this case

arrives to the court and that vehicle is really more like an antiquated horse and buggy. it's the sherman antitrust act. that was created in 1890. as you can imagine, it's a pretty old blunt industry that the government is trying to wield here that doesn't exactly fit cleanly in the facts of the case. and in reviewing the 60-page complaint, i couldn't help but note that there's not one specific instance of any price gouging, price control or price increase despite the fact they are claiming market manipulation and monopoly. i think this looks like a bit of an uphill battle. neil: you know, even worst case scenario, if the company were to be broken up, that is a stretch, to your point, i get that, seth, in the case of at & t, when that was done during the reagan administration, shareholders got pieces of all those baby bells that were born of the breakup of the behemoth itself and ended up doing financially better than they would with at & t alone. could that be the thinking here, it could lead to something like that, or are we getting way

ahead of ourselves? >> it could, and that could unlock shareholder value but i do think it's getting a little bit ahead of our skis. this case has a number of problems and frankly, i think that it demonstrates that washington should be focusing on other things. the congress needs to be providing an update to the antitrust act. it's just very antiquated and it really hasn't been updated in recent history. they also need to be spending more time incentivizing and creating different ways to enhance and grow the small business community here in the united states. they need to be in the business of enhancing and growing small business, not punishing successful big business, because at the end of the day, the market can take care of itself. take a look what happened in myspace and aol. they were big behemoths and google was a little baby, now we are having this conversation. it's an interesting world. neil: yeah. giants can come and go, to your point. seth, thank you very much. very good catching up with you on this. the stock is defying expectations, as seth touched on. back-to-back gains in the middle of all of this.

meanwhile, we are getting something a little more interesting on this astra-zeneca trial volunteer who died. bloomberg news is reporting that the volunteer had not received the vaccine. so this might be something outside the vaccine. we will keep you updated. hi, this is margaret your dell technologies advisor to listen, is to hear more than what's being said... and offer the answers that make someone feel truly heard. i understand, let's get started call a dell technologies advisor today. . ♪ (music)

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ahead with self-driving vehicles and it allowing a number of drivers to try out vehicles that will have downloaded software to keep them self-driving. the humans driving don't have to quibble with it at all. critics said we are not ready for that technology but they are and they are pushing. earnings after the bell. to charles payne right now. hey, charles. charles: neil, thank you very much. that tesla will be exciting. meantime, folks, good afternoon, i'm charles payne this is making money. breaking right now, on your mark, get set, no. no-go on stimulus. really so far for the session which has had trouble getting out of the starting blocks. narrow trading range to a degree is a relief. it also speaks of the confluences of these anxieties from stimulus to the election but there is a whole lot going on beneath the surface as we hash through spectacular earnings beats and misses. my guests go on buy, sell hold on hottest stocks on the