like this you need more than 20 seconds. good king wencleaus. >> do that. stuart: i may be persuaded before christmas. all good news. i see some green right there and my time is up. so neil, it's yours. neil: i missed a chance to hear you sing. stuart: yeah you did. neil: whatever, that would have greased skids for boffo ratings. thank you very much, my friend. the corner of wall and broad we have stocks up right now about 100 points and as stuart has been indicating here the back and forth on the vaccine, what seems to be like very, very close to near term approval by the food and drug administration later this week. as you know it is in britain's hands, it in bahrain's hands, increasingly in a lot of hands rather than america's hands. that is sticking in some people's craw, whether that

meeting a lot of success criteria scientists like to go about. indications are that it does. we'll get into that. we'll get into restaurants continuing struggle with all the new restrictions. in half the american states they are dealing with outright shutdowns or work stoppages or limited hours that are so bad they might as well be shut down. the fallout on all of this. we have gavin hattery, the moulson coors ceo, if you shut down boars you lessen people getting moulson, coarse, anything for that matter. what he makes what is at stake for the industry as well. meantime to blake burman. this is a big day at the white house when it comes to things cooking around, get a read where we stand on the vaccine, the role of pfizer and some of these other players, who i understand, correct me if i'm wrong, blake, pfizer, moderna not part of this "operation warp speed" summit at the white house today, right?

reporter: indeed, neil. there will be a big gathering at the white house later this afternoon for what the white house is billing as a vaccine summit talking about potential distribution in the upcoming days. the general reason pfizer and moderna will not be involved potentially there could be a conflict of interest as the fda is going to be involved in the summit as well. more on that in just a second but first though of course we're two days away potentially anyone the fda gives thumb's up to pfizer covid-19 vaccine candidate. we got a very detailed 53 page report from the fda ahead of that meeting. it is flush with data for those who want to go through it but essentially the takeaway is very promising. here is part of what the fda says, quote. based on the totality of scientific evidence available it is reasonable to believe that the pfizer biontech covid-19 vaccine may be effective in preventing covid-19 in individuals 16 years of age and

older, and, the known and potential benefits of the vaccine outweigh its known and potential risks for use in individuals 16 years of age and older. we also heard today from the top scientist on "operation warp speed," dr. slaoui saying that he is hopeful 70, to 80% of the u.s. can be vaccinated by may and he said he is vital that people trust all the scientific process. >> we will explain it have independent experts and explain it to the population. hopefully people have different experts that they may trust. i asked people to just keep your mind open, please, don't come to a conclusion before you have been exposed to the data. reporter: part of the sales pitch is going to be occurring today at the white house as you referenced, neil, for the vaccine summit. over the course of three hours, government officials, governors, industry executives will detail

the things like the vaccine approval process and distribution methods. president trump also going to be signing an executive order. senior administration officials say, quote, the executive order reaffirms to the american people that we're going to put america first and work to insure they have access to vaccines. secondly, it helps coordinate an interagency process on an unprecedented level of international and global health security. neil? neil: thank you, my friend, very, very much. blake burman at the white house on all of that. i want to go to chad pergram because in the middle of all of this, slightest of all possibilities, probably gone down to slight right now for a stimulus measure related to covid-19 paired with a well away a means by which they can avoid a government shutdown, keep lights on even for another week or so. chad is an encyclopedia on these things. explain where we stand on both these things?

reporter: here is where we are we're expecting to get some concrete details own the coronavirus package that has been worked outlined the scenes here. that is not final yet. the things they're hung up over are things they are hung up over since the summer, liability protection and money for state and local governments. mitch mcconnell is pushing liability shields something democrats don't like starting with the senate democratic leader chuck schumer. >> the most conspicuous of these poison pills so-called red line the majority leader tried to draw on the issue of corporate immunity. for the sake of bipartisan negotiations republican leadership should forsake these hard-line positions. reporter: there are consequences if congress fails to security a coronavirus deal. extra unemployment assistance expires just after christmas. and there won't be an infusion of cash for small businesses to keep them afloat. >> just ppp fix.

we need a legitimate grant that doesn't have to go through 20 accountants and you know high-priced consultants to figure out you know make it work. reporter: now you talked about government funding. the government funding deadline is the end of the week, december 11th here. they don't have an agreement on government funding. what they will do in the house of representatives tomorrow is pass a stopgap bill as you say keep the lights on. the hope here was to mesh these two bills together. get an agreement on government funding. also get a deal on coronavirus and put them together but they don't have either right now and that is why the deadline for this could be sometime next week. here is the other problem though, neil. if you don't have an agreement just to fund the government, they are probably not going to get an agreement on coronavirus. that's the big problem here on capitol hill today. back to you. neil: if they were able to do both, chad, tough as it might be, this would be one of the more productive lame-duck sessions of congress we've seen at least in my memory.

what are your thoughts? reporter: that's right. certainly in recent memory we had other years where they did a big intelligence bill. other years dealt with the fiscal cliff. keep in mind back until the 1930s lame-duck congress went for 13 months back in the early 1930s. you had a situation where the midterm elections in the fall of 1930 and new congress didn't start until december of 1931. so you had these large, long, long lame-duck sessions of congress. obviously they did a lot of work during those periods too. you have to judge that in modern history in terms of productivity and in a quote, lame-duck session of congress. neil: sure. i almost forgotten about 1930. you're wicked smart, chad, wicked smart. thanks very much my friend. you ask a question you're going to get a thorough answer. that is the way it is. rebecca walser is with us, keith fitz-gerald is with us.

we're looking at market reaction how it is digesting all of this. rebecca, if neither materializes during a lame-duck session, a spending measure to keep the lights on, this relief, they seem somehow joined at the hip, then what, what do markets do? >> well, neil, as i have been saying like a broken record we obviously need more stimulus especially in the wake of this second phase and more lockdowns. that is a huge problem. but what i am struggling with myself, just listening to this last hit here, piece, i don't understand why anybody, democrats or republicans want to maintain liability for coronavirus at corporate level, not putting in a protection for businesses against coronavirus lawsuits is basically saying we want them to be able to sue. why would a business be responsible for coronavirus? how would you prove and establishing the business gave you coronavirus? not opening businesses because people won't go back because

they will sue their employers, because they could get coronavirus this is crazy la-la land. the virus came from china. the we are all human beings breathe air. no one is responsible in the united states is this. how would you sue anybody, and determine liability. that is what the holdup is, not suing people for the coronavirus. neil: that is a very good point. one of the reasons why mitch mcconnell is leery signing on to this because there are no such protections here. keith, if you're going to argue some democrats have in particular they're sympathetic to the businesses and their plight when they're willy-nilly shut down the owner of this bar and restaurant in california hadn't indicated with us yesterday, at least give them, you know some protection if they do stay open. that is not happening. so it makes me think that this stimulus measure isn't happening either. then what? >> i share that opinion. here's an idea, neil. these guys can't agree on businesses. how about the american people

suing congress because they can't do their jobs? they will enrage and destroy millions of businesses around this country. they need to do their dang jobs. as for the markets, the markets are looking beyond that. personally i think that is a sign of faith. hope is still there. aspiration is still there. this country will get through this, but dang it, these people need to get a grip. neil: when you say the markets are looking beyond that, that we will resolve the differences in the near term lame duck congress, the optimism vaccines will be out there, more are going to be coming that will, you know, ease a lot of this pressure about the virus itself, is that what they're looking at? >> well i think so because if you look to history as our guide, right, angst is a tremendous short-term influence. however it is always, always, a massive opportunity on the other side because that is when you have earnings return, that is when you have customers return, that is when you have hope return, have people do their thing. covid is simply a magnificent,

absolutely extraordinary example of that. i don't mean that in a good way. i mean that in terms of the size of the opportunity. 2021 when we do beat this is an opportunity for the record books. neil: you know, rebecca, talk about record books, i mean the dow and s&p are flirting with records once again. the nasdaq already in a record once again, what are the markets telling us? >> i think that they do price in, just as you said, i think they're pricing in already some additional stimulus but you know, i have to say i'm with mitch mcconnell on this one. i wish every politician in washington wouldn't pass a stimulus bill to help businesses that would only turn around and expose them to liability for a virus that came from a foreign country and is, you know travels through the air. so markets are building in additional stimulus. they do have hope. they are aspirational. we have a lot of things happening in december that are positive but at the same time,

neil, it doesn't make sense to say we got to hurry up and pass this for small businesses to turn around and expose them to liability. are you on the side of business, want this country come back to work? is this hope we all get welfare for the rest of our lives? we have a country based on consumer spending. that has not changed since march of 2020. it is just that we have had government stimulus to pull us through the hard times that cannot last indefinitely. we cannot spend $4 trillion plus a year to keep everybody shuttered in their homes. we got to bet back to work, get back to life, get out and spending money, if it takes vaccines to do that, whatever the solution is, we have to do it. we'll be in depression. it is a fact, economic fact, if we do not get back to work and back to open, we are headed for a depression, end of story. neil: keith, you're nodding your head? >> i am right with rebecca on this. we are lined up on this.

these people in congress need to quit bickering with each other. there will be plenty of opportunity to do that. quit holding the american people and all these businesses hostage effectively what they're doing. do their dang jobs. let us getting back to live our lives. the markets will respond. neil: thank you both. that is the sentiment building in the new york city melt poll tan area where they're -- metropolitan area, where they hear increasingly that new york governor andrew cuomo is getting close to put the hammer down restricting activity in a spike of cases. is shutting down the restaurants and hospitality centers the answer? the guy who heads a big one why it is not. why it could come back to bite not only the industry but the governor. we'll be back. ♪

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neil: why do these governors always target indoor dining? for the life of me i haven't seen any reliable statistics prove a link between indoor dining and spikes in cases we've seen. i guess it is easy target. michigan is the latest to extend limitations on indoor dining. almost a luxury there at this

point. mike tobin in millford michigan at this point. what is going on? reporter: owners of empty restaurants like this here in michigan got the news yesterday, 12 more days of lockdown. michigan's governor gretchen whitmer said we haven't seen the full impact of the thanksgiving spread and fears filling up hospitals and all the beds. 12 more days take the michigan restaurants to the 20th of december. even then the reopening is described as a cautious re-engagement. >> there is overwhelming research and scientific data that says going to locations that offer on-site eating and drinking options is associated with covid-19 positivity. there are studies after study that show this. reporter: michigan restaurant lodging association says dining in has resulted in only 4.3% of

the total spread yet restaurants are target but retail is open, airlines are still in the air and restaurants and their staff are devastated. >> i'm not quite sure that i'm going to make it. that is why i can't sleep sometimes at night, you know. and you know you've got a lot of bills in this kind of business and insurances. then you worry about all of it. i'm worried about where the waitress that needs diapers for her kid is going to come from. reporter: joe vicari owns a restaurant group in michigan, bantered about the restaurant banding together opening in defiance but realize he just couldn't win. >> they said we would be in a no-win situation. our businesses are controlled by licenses between the liquor license and the food license and the state has the right to come in and take those from you.

reporter: vicary said he had to lay off 700 employees just in time for christmas. neil? neil: regrettable. mike, thank you very much for that, mike tobin. ant to go to andrew ritchie, new york city hospitality alliance director. he has been talking about this, shouting from the highest hilltop what is going on. andrew, good to have you back even under these circumstance, mire friend, for the life of me, maybe you're aware of other data that i'm not, there is no reliable health-related data that shows indoor dining or outdoor dining for that matter has been behind the latest spikes in cases yet it is the target and remains the target of governors, mayors, every time we get a runup in cases. what is going on? >> neil that is exactly right. here in new york governor cuomo said 70% of the new infections

are coming from private social gatherings. there is no indication from the city health department that the increase in infections are coming from restaurants. we're not talking about unregulated restaurants. highly regulated restaurants with a long list of requirements. they need to fulfill with stiff penalties if they're in violation and no data that this infection rate is coming from the restaurants. so it's a really challenging situation and dr. fauci was actually with governor cuomo yesterday and even said that these restrictions or closures need to be coupled with financial support for these small businesses, which is not happening. so this is just shameful. these are small business owners, workers, they are losing their livelihood. neil: you know, andrew, i read statistics show half of all of these restaurants, for example in the new york city metropolitan area could close as a result of this.

not just a matter of weeks as order from the governor but permanent as a result? do you agree with that? >> that is not coming from industry groups. that is coming from the state comptroller. this is a real serious issue. we shed about 200,000 jobs or so at the beginning of the pandemic after the initial shutdown because we had outdoor dining, limited indoor dining here in the city. we hired back about 100,000 but there is still more than 100,000 people out of work. so all of sudden we get shut down indoors again, we don't have outdoor dining in new york city it gets pretty cold during the winter, 100,000 peoples jobs could be on the chopping block once again. again these people with livelihoods. they're working inside of restaurants, outside of restaurants. there is no direct relationship that we've seen significantly related to increasing in infections and indoor dining. we're being targeted. another shutdown has to be coupled with financial support.

we're urging senator mcconnell pass the restaurants act, which is revitalization program that will help restaurants pay for rent and payroll. not just the restaurants and their workers. think about the vendors, the farmers, fish mongerrers, everyone else, the sales rep that sells beer that rely on the vibrant industry. we need to get back. we need to have support. it is not a republican issue, it is not a democratic issue, it is a restaurant industry issue which makes it an american issue. neil: you're right about that. mitch mcconnell the problem with their package they're putting together now i think i got the gist of it right, it doesn't provide support for some of your members in the industry but there is no liability protection there and he wants them to have liability protection but is it worth it to go ahead and risk you know nixing all aid because it doesn't have liability protection? isn't that something that he could get or pursue, let's say

in the biden administration next january? >> yeah. listen i think you could probably apply liability protections retroactively but you can't really apply financial support retroactively. yes, they are critically important for these businesses trying to do everything properly, protect workers, protect the customers but right now immediately they need this financial support and while ppp may be fine for some businesses the restaurant industry's unique because a bartender or a cook is not doing their job remotely. so we don't need ppp. we need the restaurants act and we need it now. it is an issue, there is bipartisan support. we need to get it done. neil: got it. you argue well for your people, andrew. very good having you. andrew rigie, referring to the paycheck protection program that has sort of been frozen in place. you not get everything you want in a stimulus measure. beats the alternative you get

nothing you want in any measure because it doesn't come to pass. we'll keep an eye on that. keeping an eye on the salt situation here. for those of you live in high-taxed states. you're limited to $10,000 you can write off in taxes. that is chump change in states like new york, new jersey, california. meet someone if you oppose any effort to lift that, there is something wrong. he has a couple of ideas. ♪.

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it was part of the trump tax plan initiated back in the beginning of the trump presidency but for a lot of new yorkers, a lot of californians, a lot of those in massachusetts, other high-taxed states it is costing them a bundle. enter congressman thomas aossi, a new york congressman at that. sits on the ways and means committee. he has an idea to embarass those who oppose a salt cap repeal. congressman, good to have you, how are you going to do that? >> neil, thanks for having me on i appreciate it. the cap on the s.a.l.t. deduction is crushing new yorkers, crushing other states. it has been in place since the beginning of the tax code. they got rid of it in 2017. people are leaving our cities, leaving our states. coronavirus made it worse. we had a report the other day goldman sachs is thinking about taking a piece of its business bringing it down to florida. i want to say stop making

financial contributions. new yorkers should stop making financial contributions to those politicians in washington that refuse to reinstate the s.a.l.t. deduction. i will start publishing the names, the names of both politicians not supporting reinstatement of the s.a.l.t. deduction and publishing the name of those new yorkers give money to the politicians that are hurting us so badly. neil: but you're not extending that to people who support the deductions themselves, right? so, let's say i'm not too keen, i live in new jersey. i'm not too keen because they also hurt me but if i'm not giving to any candidate one way or the other do you publicize my name? do you publicize those, saying all right, i balance this out, i lose that deduction but i save on taxes? most people in that group end up not saving on taxes but what do you do to them? >> i'm not worried about them. what happened historically everybody comes to new york to

collect money for their campaigns. mitch mcconnell, lindh think gram, the gop senate candidates collect $35 million in contributions from new yorkers in 2019 and 2020. these are the same guys that are hurting new york all the time. they did it during 9/11. did it for sandy. doing it with covid relief package for state and local funds. they did it with the salt cap. they hurt us on regular basis. why are we funding our own demise? why are we giving contributions to elected officials hurt new york. every year new york sends more money than we get back we're biggest net donor than any other state. kentucky where mitch mcconnell is from or south carolina is lindsey graham is from, is big taker. they send much less to federal taxes then send back.

other states are hurt so badly by these policies to stop supporting elected officials hurting us badly. neil: i'm sure you're well aware sir, you will introduce it in the 117th congress in january, do you have any republican support? the reason i ask, republicans are the ones are not keen had to find mechanism to pay tax cuts but if it compels you know, those who put the budgets together in these high-priced states like new york to maybe not make them so big, to cut down on spending, it will be mission accomplished. what do you say to them? >> since, i was born in 1962. i heard you were born in wesbury, i used to be the county executive in nassau county. i was born in 1962. in 1962 we have 45 members of congress. today we have 27 members. we'll probably lose a seat. we'll lose population in comparison to the southwest and

southeastern states. reality we have -- neil: losing it, congressman, do you think you're losing it because it is such a high tax environment? maybe that gets back to some of the runaway spending going on, nothing more than get people to think twice about that, it might serve a bigger purpose? >> neil that is a very real issue. i was the big proponent, i ran for governor in new york state in democratic primary against eliot spitzer, didn't turn out for me, didn't turn out for eliot spitzer either. we have government property tax cap, the legislature put it in place to control the level of spending, control property taxes level in our states. we need to make our states more competitive. this elimination of the salt body deduction is body blow to my state. my colleagues are gleeful about the idea of businesses and people leaving my state to go to their state. they are leaving behind other

taxpayers will get left holding the bag. when people leave our state to go to florida, north carolina, south carolina, the middle class are left, they receive cuts in services or raise taxes. neither is good. we need to make the states more competitive but we need the s.a.l.t. deduction back in place. neil: would you phase that out though for higher income earners? i know they're toying with this among some democrats in new jersey in order to get something through to deal with the salt issue, that maybe the well to do and all don't benefit but most others would, are you open to the same kind of thing in new york? >> i'm open to negotiating but reality is that 40% of our revenues in the state of new york and 47% of revenues in new york are generated by top 1%.

the state and local tax deduction was in place since the very first income tax deduction was set up in the early 1900s. we built our states putting local tax deduction in place. abandoning that and long arm of federal government shouldn't reach in to take away their power is something abused by this 2017 gop tax cut. so the reality is, i think that we should have the full deintroduction of state and local taxes. why should you pay taxes on taxes you pay? why should you after you have already paid your state and local taxes have to pay taxes on that money that you have already put in? so many police officers and teachers and civil servants have relied on that covenant for so long. it was ripped out from under them in a very quick process. we need to reverse that. neil: you know, i remember when you ran for governor. you could make the argument, people might agree or disagree you were a little ahead of yourself especially with looking at property taxes and the like. would you ever entertain running for governor again?

>> right now i'm very happy in congress. i have a great job on ways and means. i'm getting more and more experience here getting things done. so i'm very happy with what i'm doing right now. my wife told me the other day, anytime i try to plan ahead it never works out. take what comes to you as it comes. neil: that is well-put. which means you have entertain it if the right opportunity came up i think. >> i'm a very ambitious person. neil: okay. very good. talk to your wife. see what she says. congressman, very good having you. congressman thomas souzzi sifts on very influential ways and means. regardless of what you think of his views, he was way ahead of the curve addressing these issues and problems financially that dedevil high-taxed states like new york and so many others. we have the dow up 107 points. we'll have the fall out on the vaccine front. promising signs, a 90-year-old woman in england becomes the

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♪. neil: all right. might be an american company but the first dibs on getting the pfizer vaccine come to those in britain after britain went ahead and okayed it. in the united kingdom the elderly are getting the attention first. they're rolling out the vaccine there. it could get approval in this country in a matter of days. so we'll be getting the same sort of treatment in this country hopefully for elderly, health care workers vulnerable parts of population. let's get a read how it is going there. we have greg palkot in london with more. hey, greg. reporter: neil, i want to quote a british official saying earlier today, today marks the start of the fight back against

coronavirus. those are his words. we're at guys hospital in south london. saw some of the first injections. a visit from uk prime minister boris johnson. all told, neil, 70 hospitals across the country started administering the pfizer biontech vaccine. the uk is the first country in the world to use this, basically the first to use a widely-tested, independently-proven coronavirus inoculation. it is as your viewers i'm sure know a logistical challenge for sure. it has to be stored and transported nearly minus 100 degrees fahrenheit but again confirmed today efficacy at 59%. huge numbers. as you note the brits rushed it out ahead of the united states. here is what one top official told me earlier today. >> i wouldn't presume to say to other nations about exactly how they should approve their vaccines but i'm very clear, if it is good enough for the uk, as

far as i'm concerned it is good enough for any other nation on earth. >> including the u.s.? >> including the u.s. reporter: now being vaccinated today, those giving out the injections, front line health workers, yes, some over80s including 90-year-old maggie keenan. she was the first in the whole country to get it up in the city of coventry. listen to a few words from maggie. >> so piece go, that is what i say. you know? if i can do it so can you. reporter: repeat that for our viewers, neil, if i can do it, so can you. of course as you noted the u.s. is watching this very closely. later this week we could see fda approval. next week we could see the use of this vaccine in the united states. with as we all know cases and death tolls still soaring not a minute too soon.

back to you. neil: greg, thank you very much. greg palkot in london following all of this. so what did doctors look for among the first patients receiving this vaccine and others to come? let's ask a good one. dr. roger klein, physician, policy expert at heartland institute. great to have you again. as you monitor patients as more get access to this in this country and elsewhere, what do you look for particularly in older patients among the first to be getting it abroad? i would imagine the same here? >> thanks, neil, thanks for having me. neil: thank you. >> the reported side-effects are mostly mild. the largest was local reactions around the injection site but there were other -- people are getting flu-like symptoms. they're getting headaches and fatigue. that sort of thing especially after the second dose. patients do need to be aware of that and i think we need to let them know that they may not feel quite right for a few days

afterward. neil: you know, doctor, what do you say to people who, long before the fear of this was all being politicized, i think that was taken a bit to extremes but there is a good percentage of the population just leery of vaccines period? i'm wondering how do you get people over that? >> yeah. so i think it is really important to be honest. and so what i would say is that although the risks are not zero, they're very low and certainly low in comparison to the risk of the disease, particularly for certain age groups but people can experience side-effects of the sort that i'm talking about. they may not feel all that well right afterward. but we haven't seen in the 22,000 people who have received the pfizer vaccine we haven't seen an excess of serious side-effects that would make one

wary or leery of taking the vaccine. but again, you know, i think, i think honesty is important. for any medical procedure, anything you do, there is always some risk. it just looks very, very low, especially in relation to the disease itself. neil: you know the reason why i asked, doctor, talk to a lot of young people, they feel they're at a little risk of getting the virus, even testing positive for it. certainly getting much worse than sniffles from this virus. so they kind of say why should i take a chance on a vaccine? i always like to remind them because of old fogies like me who are around you. they laugh and say, again i will take my chances. what do you make of that and how do you make the pitch for younger people who look at this, i don't need it, i'm going to pass on it? >> just looking from their perspective, i will be honest with you from that perspective it is certainly understandable.

what is important that we're rolling it out first to the folks who have the highest incidents of death, maybe 40 to 50% of the deaths in the united states, it is going to be in nursing homes, people in nursing homes and other institutionalized settings of that nature. in addition to the health care workers. for the vulnerable, it will be progressive given to them. once we eliminate some of, some of that risk of serious disease, that is what we've shown so far with these vaccines, they appear to prevent symptomatic and serious disease, not necessarily infection itself. we don't know that for sure. once we see that we're really going a long way toward eliminating the public health burden of this disease. meanwhile people will, as the vaccines roll out, people will continue to get infected. it is spreading and quite frankly the risk in younger people is relatively limited.

i'm very excited. i think this will work its way out. i think in a short while we're going to be over this and i'm looking forward to it just like everybody else. neil: man that is good news because you've been prescient on a lot of these developments. with every zig and turn you didn't get overly optimistic in the beginning. you were warning about some of the serious issues we would face. so everybody step of the way you've been giving us pretty sound advice. i hope young people listened to what you just mentioned. dr. roger klein, great seeing you once again. have a wonderful holiday. meantime i wanted to let you know what is going on in the business world, what is happening at corner of wall and broad. nasdaq is record territory. dow still about 30 points away from a record here. all of this coming at a time when we're seeing some pretty good progress on the vaccine front w the vaccine summit scheduled at the white house a little more of an hour from now, talk of more entrants in this game. try half a dozen, after this.

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apparently they like the texas environment a lot more than they like, well where they are right now. in the case of elon musk following up with what hewlett-packard enterprises said by expanding its operations not in california but in of course hewlett-packard's case houston, texas. elon musk is looking at texas as well. i think it's part of a foundation effort but that could be just a signal of things to come. charlie gasparino, what's going on? >> well i mean he is looking to cut costs, meaning elon musk, the founder of teslas. this is an amazing stock story, neil. i was the first one to break the story that he was under investigation about two or three years ago for making a claim that tesla was going to be selling for $420, going private at 420-dollar stock price. that turned out to be false. he got slapped a little bit on

the wrist by the sec, had to pay a fine but the stock is well north of 420. the stock is well north of 420, something in the 500 range after a stock split. elon musk has done very well over the last couple years. one of the ways he has done it is by showing the street he is willing to cut costs which he is doing. one way to cut costs is to move your plants out of high-cost areas like california. looks like he is starting to make moves to do that. the other way you prove yourself to money managers is essentially selling a story. the story is pretty fascinating if you talk to money managers that believe in the stock. there is a ton of people who don't. think it is still a house of cards, that he doesn't sell many vehicles. he is making money through weird things like selling credits on gas emissions and things of that nature but if you look at what the bulls say, they say listen, don't value it like a

traditional car company. value it as technology. its battery is revolutionary. it's a decent product, it is works. there will be a green movement whether -- if republicans keep the senate it will tamp down on wild breen new deal of aspirations of the biden administration but there will still be a move towards less carbon, using electric vehicles. all that together is now coalescing in a stock price going through the roof. we should point out the stock is off a little bit today, neil. one reason's musk's announced plan to sell five billion dollars worth of stock in a couple months. it's a smart move. if you have valuations like this, cash in, get some capital. money managers are crediting that. this is fascinating story for all the reasons he is willing to throw it in and move to texas to cut his cost doing that, labor costs. neil, back to you. neil: i can't see him with the

whole cowboy hat thing all that other stuff. anything is possible. >> anything is possible. neil: all right. love to see you in a cowboy hat but that is a whole separate drama. >> i am in texas all the time. neil: i do too. i do too. no hat big enough to fit my head. that is the problem. we'll have more after this only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ...i was just fighting an uphill battle in my career. so when i heard about the applied digital skills courses, i'm thinking i can become more marketable. you don't need to be a computer expert to be great at this. these are skills lots of people can learn. i feel hopeful about the future now. ♪

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neil: all right. we have had a very interesting day in the markets, my friends. the dow not all that far from a record. the s&p 500 and nasdaq into and out of record territory here. early good reads we are getting on those who are getting the first chance, largely in england, to get their hands on that pfizer/biontech vaccine. so far, no ill reactions. everything going as planned. and we are getting increasing word that this could get an american nod at the fda as soon as tomorrow. at least for the pfizer one. i believe a week from now when they meet, that is the advisory board, on the moderna drug. that could be next week. we could be looking at two viable vaccines in this country and we could also be looking at as many as half a dozen in a matter of a month or two. that's of course from bill gates, who monitors this a lot for his foundation. in the meantime here, we are waiting to hear in about 40 minutes or so from joe biden. he's going to be introducing now

his picks for his health team, among others, and expanding on those picks. hillary vaughn following all of this in wilmington, delaware. hey, hillary. reporter: hey, neil. well, some of those health care picks, part of president-elect joe biden's health care team, will show up in person here in wilmington today. others will show up virtually. one of those is dr. anthony fauci, who will stay put in his role in the biden administration as head of infectious disease, but will also serve as biden's chief medical adviser. we are learning that vivek murthy will also return to his role as surgeon general. he served in that capacity under president obama. but the most surprising pick is putting california attorney general xavier becerra in charge of health and human services. >> xavier becerra will be joe biden's nationwide lockdown enforcer. the senate ought not to confirm him. he supports medicare for all. he's going to be responsible for running medicare and medicaid and obamacare and many other

health care programs. reporter: becerra has no experience managing a government agency of that size and also does not have a background in public health but he would be the first latino to lead the department, and he does have a lot of experience leading on legal challenges defending obamacare. he led a lawsuit joined by 20 states defending the aca against a republican lawsuit trying to strike down the law. he also defended california's mandate that requires all health care plans cover abortion. becerra's record is prompting protests from anti-abortion groups like susan b. anthony's list who called him an abortion extremist and his aggressive abortion views are also sparking controversy among some catholics. a senior fellow at the catholic association says becerra is quote, a gross insult to catholics. biden is also a devout catholic. he attended mass today to commemorate immaculate conception day. his faith and support of abortion has created conflict among catholics.

last week an influential catholic bishop, charles chaput, said biden should not receive communion because he thinks his support for abortion sends the message that the moral laws in the catholic church are optional. neil? neil: all right. hillary, thank you very much for that. of course, all that coming up a little more than a half hour from now. we will take you there as soon as it does. in the meantime, democrats are feeling their oats ahead of joe biden taking over on january 20th, including chuck schumer, who had this idea for the president-elect when it came to helping out those with massive student debt. take a look. >> we have come to the conclusion that president biden can undo this debt, can forgive $50,000 of debt the first day he becomes president. you don't need congress. all you need is the flick of a pen. neil: wow. $50,000 in debt, wiped out by

the flick of a pen. add that up for potentially thousands of students. charles payne already has, "making money" host, bestselling author, joins me. where the hell they going to come up with that money, charles? charles: you know, it comes from the federal government, i guess. move over, nuclear waste, we are going to put student debt in there next. it's nuts, neil. it really is crazy. you know what i really, really despise about this? there's a lot of things i don't like about it but what i despise about it is that democrats sell this to the american public as a way of helping quote unquote, minorities, blacks and hispanics, when in fact this is a bailout for woke college students, it would be a bailout for folks with masters degrees, folks with graduate degrees. 36% of this debt is held by people with masters degrees. 20% by folks with professional degrees. the people that own this debt are the highest wage earners in this country. over the course of a lifetime they will make $1 million more

than folks without a high school diploma. it is a crazy scheme. it really blows me away and it's offensive the way they sell it. neil: you know, i'm going to put you down as a maybe on this whole idea. the one thing that just amazes me is what if you are a dutiful student who is chipping away, trying to pay off your debt, or your parents help you try to pay off that debt, and all of a sudden you see someone who gets a blank check to write it all off and go away like a bad dream. that's not going to go down well. charles: that's not going to go down well. what if you already paid off your debt? what if you worked your way through life, you have children now, you are maybe saving for them. what if you didn't go to college because your parents simply could not afford it? even if they went to a bank back in the day, the bank said no because remember, until the obama administration came in, there was a middleman, it was called a bank, and a lot of times the bank would look at the application, say i can't lend you $200,000 for a pottery

masters in pottery. i can't do it. but they removed the middleman. what happened? consequently to that, i just mentioned the masters degrees, they were just 27% of these loans. they became 36%. everyone went to school, went back to school, but before that, you couldn't go, you just said okay, i will become a cab driver and then you saved up your money and maybe you started to fulfill, become a plumber, then you did well enough where you hired two or three people. the point i'm making here is there are millions of americans who couldn't even go to college or didn't go to college. why should their taxes be used to pay for it? it's really a hare-brained scheme but the way they are selling it as some kind of econ101 idea, it doesn't put money in anyone's pocket. let's erase that notion. if you are saying you can't afford to pay your college loan, then you certainly couldn't take the money you don't apparently have and start a business with it or do anything else with it. now, if you are just saying listen, if we are going to forgive these loans so we can spark the economy, why stop at

student loans? why stop there? i've got a couple cars in the driveway, i've got notes on. if chuck schumer pays them off, i will get two more cars, i promise you. this weekend i will get two more. neil: by the way, you got the pottery foundation on line one, very angry at you, young man. all right. you are up in 52 minutes. looking forward to it, as always. charles payne on all those developments. when he gets upset. "wall street journal" political reporter joins us right now. eliza never gets upset. she goes right to the jugular to let you know what's going on. i do have a lot of things i want to talk to you about, but this plan, among other big spending plans the democrats have, by the way, republicans are in no position to point fingers on, you know, run up deficits and debt. i'm not here to exclude or excuse one party over the other. but is either party worried about our debt? is either party worried about

the deficit right now? the deficit for this fiscal year already in the trillions of dollars. anyone looking at that? >> we are certainly hearing more from republicans about that as it looks like democrats are going to take over. there's no doubt that joe biden is proposing large spending plans. you know, he has not proposed eliminating student debt on day one but he has proposed various education bills that would eliminate some student debt or provide free college for some section of the population. so we are certainly hearing more from republicans. it's a lot easier when you are not in power to be the party of no, as we saw, like you mentioned, the deficit did go up under republicans but you know, it's much easier to be no so i think we are hearing more about that. i think we can expect to hear more about that as we see some of these plans be rolled out and there are some democrats, particularly democrats who represent, you know, red or purple areas, where they are hearing from voters' concerns but we are also in coronavirus,

so some of those people are talking about bigger spending packages at least in this moment to get out of the crisis that we're in. neil: i know polls are all over the map here, they are very hard to judge in a run-up election but right now, from the latest polls, the democratic candidate's lead, one is in the margin of error but the other, not so much. i'm wondering, i know the markets have not factored in both of these republican seats going down, but i would imagine they would be stunned at that sort of development because it would put the senate under democratic control. what are people saying when you talk to them about these races and how likely it could be they both go democrat? >> well, i think it's very

possible that they both go one way or the other. you know, it's not super-likely that people will go and vote for one republican or one democrat, though it is possible, but one thing i am hearing from a lot of republicans is the concern about questions over the election. the president has pushed, you know, conspiracy theories about georgia. he lost that state narrowly and so he's really -- him and his al lis ha allies has put a lot of questions into whether that state is secure. there are a lot of voters who may say i don't trust this system, i'm not going out to vote for these candidates, especially with the president not on the ballot. that is something republicans are talking about. neil: if you are right, and i have heard this as well, where people are saying all right, if the president doesn't trust the way they count votes here, why should i bother voting in this runoff election, period. so in a weird way, he could have

hurt these candidates' chances. do you think he has? >> i'm not sure yet. i mean, this is something we did see with mail-in voting in this election, the president urged people to vote in person, his voters overwhelmingly did vote in person. democratic voters voted by mail or voted early. so we saw that when the vote came in, especially if the election day votes came in first, it looked like the president was leading and as mail-in vote came in later, joe biden took over. so there have been questions about the election from mail-in voting and the president did that basically by saying people shouldn't mail-in vote. it could be a case like that. neil: all right. we will watch it closely. eliza collins, "wall street journal" political reporter extraordinaire, great catching up with you. be safe and be healthy. karl rove is obviously very very much actively involved in the money race here to try to make sure that those republicans

hang on to their jobs in georgia. where that stands, no shortage of dough on either side. thanks to karl's efforts, certainly an edge for republicans. will it translate into a victory for them? that's next. ♪ to all the businesses that helped us make it through 2020... thank you for going the extra mile... and for the extra pump of caramel. thank you for the good food... and the good karma. thank you for all the deliveries... especially this one. you've reminded us that no matter what, we can always find a way to bounce forward. so thank you, to our customers and to businesses everywhere,

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neil: all right. we talk about the markets and the run-up we have today. no one in the market is factoring the senate losing republican control, so when you talk about these georgia races and the hail mary pass the democrats would have to have to take both the races, and then take control of the united states senate, it's something the markets don't think is going to happen. karl rove doing his best to make sure they don't happen. the former bush 43 deputy chief of staff, bestselling author, leading the effort right now to raise whatever money republicans need to keep those seats. he joins us right now. karl, always good to have you. the polls are fleeting and unpredictable, particularly runoff elections, particularly a state like georgia, i get that, but are you surprised by these early ones that seem to show the

democrats are making a fight of it in both races? >> no, not really. i thought all along it was going to be a close race. the republicans have an edge but it's not a huge edge. and perdue/ossoff race in november, perdue led by 88,000 votes. the margin between the combined vote for republicans in the runoff -- excuse me, in the general primary with 21 candidates was 44,000 votes over their democrat combined vote, so it's going to be a close race. republicans tend to have an advantage in runoffs like this, but nothing can be left to chance. the democrats have spent tens of millions of dollars from stacy abrams, lot of it ended up in the hands of her associates, but a lot of it was spent in building an effective get out the vote machine which is why for the first time since 1992, georgia ended up in the democratic presidential column, albeit only by about 12,000 votes. neil: you know, i know you are in a tough position here so i

don't mean to put you in a corner on something here, but having caught the president's remarks over the weekend, i was struck by the fact that he kept pounding this theme georgia is a basket case when it comes to counting votes and all, it's corrupt and the governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, have all failed you and all. i'm reading that, let's say i'm a georgia voter, georgia republican voter at that, why would i bother voting in this race if all those things are still in place? >> well, because it was half the message. the other half of the message was it's really important to me, donald trump, to have a republican senate and my legacy is at stake and if you're frustrated as i am about the outcome of the november election, then the answer is turn out in numbers so they can't steal it in january, we must defeat these two democrats. you know, look, on balance i think the president's message was a positive because there are two groups that the republicans have to worry about. one are the low propensity trump

voters, people who came out to vote for president trump and president trump almost alone this fall. that's what motivated them to come out. and the other are suburban swing voters who may have voted for david perdue, either voted for joe biden or didn't vote in the presidential race, then voted for the republican county commission candidate and republican member of congress and republican state legislators. those swing votes in the suburbs and the trump low propensity voters have something in common. the issue that motivates them is that there ought to be a break, a firewall, a governor, a restraint, whatever analogy you want, on the democratic administration in washington and on the democrats in the house and chuck schumer shouldn't be in charge of the senate. this idea of divided government finds appeal with two very different groups, trump voters, low propensity trump voters tend to be rural, suburbanites are located in the big metropolitan area, primarily atlanta, but they share a common interest. there ought tbo be a check and

balance on nancy pelosi and they don't like chuck schumer. neil: the president obviously continues his legal fight. he's facing, you know, a challenge shut down one after another here. is it fair to say his fight is over? >> i think it is. i wrote in my "wall street journal" column about three weeks ago that, you know, the president was being ill-served by his legal advisers. they were way too late and way too little in the way of evidence, and there had never been an instance in which a major election had been overturned in a state on the kind of difference that we had between president trump and vice president biden in a november 3rd election. look, we are at the day, safe harbor day. this is the day by which states have to resolve these issues. every state is certified. once you certify a state's results, it's awfully difficult to try and overturn them. al gore tried to overturn the certification in florida. didn't work in 2000.

awfully hard for anybody to get it done. the president's lawyers, if they had complaints about dominion or about voting practices should have been introducing those months and months ago, as the election unfolded and that's what we are seeing in these opinions being handed down by district and appellate court judges across the country, that it's too late and too little. neil: i won't get into the details, but joe biden was asked in a cnn interview about whether the president should go up to joe biden's inauguration. he said it didn't matter to him. he thinks it matters to the country in terms of showing a peaceful transition of power. is that important? have we ever seen a case where an outgoing president, whether he was in the race against his successor or not, not attending the inauguration of the next president? i know herbert hoover and fdr didn't talk to each other in the

car on the way to the capitol, but they did go to the capitol together. any precedent for something like this, where a sitting president -- >> there actually is. yeah. i'm not sure -- i'm trying to figure out, was andrew johnson at the swearing-in of ulysses s. grant? i'm still working on that one. but yes, there is a precedent. in march, on march 4th, 1801, john adams at 4:00 a.m. in the morning got up on the coach and began -- and left washington, d.c. for his home in quincy, massachusetts. thereby avoided the swearing-in ceremony, inaugural of thomas jefferson on noon, march 4th, 1801. neil: how could i forget that. i remember covering that. i was so surprised. >> yeah. exactly. you know, you were on the jefferson beat so you were over at the boardinghouse and walked over to him, as i recall. neil: i was ready for him. got it. got it.

you are encyclopediaic, you really are. thank you very much for that. we will see what happens. anything could happen in those five or six weeks. that would be kind of interesting, one way or the other. good seeing you again, my friend. karl rove. there is no one better at this stuff than he is. we will have a lot more. right now, wall street not really thinking about that. ready for a biden administration, ready for anything, ready for more vaccines, ready for more stimulus, ready for a lot of things that look good and ignoring anything that could look bad. after this. before nexium 24hr,

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♪ neil: all right. you know, jeff flock has already been in the spirit. he was cutting down christmas trees yesterday, following up on the surge in holiday decorating that is going on.

probably owing, i would imagine, to the pandemic and everything else, people just going all out to do their best to celebrate for the big day. jeff is in napierville, illinois. hey, jeff. reporter: yeah, that's actually true. i know you just said you were at the jefferson inauguration. i think you were also perhaps the pool reporter at the birth of jesus as well. that is just one of the displays here at the home of the hennessy family. look at this. more santa clauss here in one place than i have seen in the last trip to the north pole. this is largely driven by the pandemic. i say largely. at this home they always do christmas but this year, a special year. you mentioned more people out there. if you look at numbers, ace hardware, for example, says in terms of sales of wreaths and garlands as well as lights, huge increase in sales. in some places, you can't even get christmas decorations for

outside anymore. john hennessy, who spearheads this annual excitement here in the suburbs, says this is a year when people definitely want to decorate and have a wonderful christmas tradition. listen. >> it gives people a little bit of time to slow down, stop and smell the roses, enjoy the season. that's what this is about. get away from your social media, get away from the cell phones, pack the kids in the car, have some family time and just have a little christmas spirit. reporter: i come to you at the end here at the santa claus astride the reindeer. that's not rudolph. he's got a regular nose. that must be dasher or prancer, one of the other ones. look at that window. it's like a marshall fields window in chicago. you can't even buy those anymore. those are hard to get. pretty cool, huh? neil? you still speaking to me? neil: i am. i'm just curious, if the people

know that live in the house you're kind of creeping them out wandering around the house. i think they would call the police. reporter: in this neighborhood, they might. they're friendly. i talked to them. they're friendly. the dog's friendly, too. neil: you are the best, my friend. jeff flock in naperville, illinois. just running up to people's homes whether they're there or not. in the meantime, one of the things that's kind of interesting about the closure or shutdown or limiting hours at bars, restaurants and that sort of thing is the effect it has on the consumption of all of those goods, including beer. the molson coors ceo joins me now. very good to have you. people forget that, don't they? obviously if you are shutting down these facilities or limiting access to them, sales of everything related to it go down, including beer. what are you noticing? >> well, that's right, neil. thanks for having me on your show. look, it depends, it's very much

a market by market thing for us. if you look at our european businesses, 70% to 75% of our sales revenue in the united kingdom comes from bars or restaurants. a complete shutdown in november, limited occupancy in december, is tough for us. in the united states, it really does depend where you are in the united states. bars and restaurants on premise business for us is about 17% of our revenue, and the closures have certainly knocked that back. but the consequence of that has been we have seen quite a surge in the off-premise, folks visiting grocery stores and stocking up there. we have certainly seen a positive impact with some of our big iconic brands like miller light and coors light, both of which are growing very nicely. neil: i wonder, too, assuming, and everyone is hoping these vaccines are the start of something and that people, you know, eventually we get

something resembling normal back. i have no idea what normal is anymore. but do you worry, the flipside of that is going to the stores to pick up, you know, a case of beer, whathave you, they are not inclined to do that as much, that whatever you are gaining there, whatever you lose there, obviously you get back in open restaurants and bars again. how do you crunch the numbers on all of that? >> certainly consumer behavior has changed during this pandemic. one thing we have seen is a surge in e-commerce. it's a startling statistic for us coming into the pandemic that folk didn't know they could buy beer online. obviously that number's reduced substantially. we have seen more than 200% growth in online sales so we would expect that behavior to continue in some degree afterwards. and certainly consumers are also getting back to big trusted brands and we have seen the benefits of that, as i said, on miller light and coors light. neil: i wonder how that has

played out across the world. people know you guys are everywhere. we see what's going on and lockdowns were kind of the norm, some were more severe than others, some were reimposed, for example, in europe, united kingdom, italy, germany, more so than here, but what has been the global impact on you? >> well, it's been tough in the united kingdom. to a lesser degree, in central europe. the summer months for us in central europe are really important because of the tourism that is generated over that time period. so little bit of a lesser of an impacter to us in central europe but obviously not positive. in south america, we are actually seeing a real positive surge in our brands. we've got miller high life and blue moon, miller light and coors light down there. actually, right now, they are doing pretty well. it's a nice little growth engine for us. neil: i'm not surprised. gavin hattersley, thank you very much.

molson coors ceo. very good seeing you. hope you have a wonderful holiday. in the meantime, we are going to start something a little bit new here, where we look at things that really fly in the face of conventional wisdom. this notion, for example, that we were raising earlier, what if the senate, you know, didn't stay republican, unlikely though that may be? mystery is often defined by events we didn't see coming, not those that we do. so a what-if question for you in our next segment. what if the president of the united states tries to pardon himself? after this. ♪ this is decision tech. find a stock based on your interests or what's trending.

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neil: you know, the one thing i have learned covering the markets over these many, many years, all right, decades, because i'm on the older side, is that the markets are defined by events they didn't see coming. not the events they did. they never saw 9/11, they never saw the john f. kennedy assassination or back-to-back oil crises, yet their direction afterwards was determined by all of that. so we are going to start a new segment now, not all the time, we raise the what-ifs. the what-if scenario that isn't really built into the consensus. one popular one these days is that the president of the united states could be issuing a lot of pardons. that, we already know. but what if one of them, what if, again, to this segment, one of them was for himself? he pardoned himself? can a president pardon himself? the former doj prosecutor with us right now. can he, james? can he do that? >> let me put it to you this way. if you had five lawyers and you

asked them that question, two would say he can, two would say he couldn't, and one would say i'm not sure. so you know, it's a very unusual question and by the way, you just had a whole segment about beer, didn't use my expertise on that. i'm really reluctant to go through with. neil: i'm very sorry about that. >> that's a bitter pill for an expert like myself. but no, i mean, look, the bottom line is the constitution is silent on it. the constitution does not prohibit it. i think a lot of people would read that to say it's a conceivable outcome that the chief executive could, in fact, pardon himself. this issue arose during nixon/ford and basically, the office of legal counsel at doj, which is not a binding thing by a long shot, they came out with an opinion that basically said the president cannot pardon himself, and they hung their language on kind of, you know, intent of the founding fathers and a little bit of, i think a bit of a stretch of language saying where it says you can grant a pardon, that that necessarily implies more than one person involved in the

transaction. so little bit of a creative read. not sure it really holds true. but that's okay. neil: one of the examples they use is whether richard nixon could have, you know, utilized this or pardoned himself. a writer in today's "washington post" says that the acting assistant attorney general for the justice department's office of legal counsel said back in august of 1974, four days before richard nixon resigned that there's no power to self-pardon, as if apparently i'm adding that nixon considered it. this opinion, single conclusion sentence, could hardly be regarded as an authority. so if it's semantics we're talking about and the president were to do that anyway to avoid any trouble, not to acknowledge guilt or whatever, just the legal nightmares that he just wants to end, could he do it? >> you know, look, he can certainly try it. there's not some black letter law that says this is an impossibility. the question is whether it ever gets challenged in court.

as an extraconstitutional moment. remember, it only applies to federal crimes. so the -- neil: for which he's really dealing with, right, that would not exonerate him from those, right? >> right. that's the question, you know, the only way you get out of those is with a governor's pardon and i don't think that's happening in new york, for instance. so you don't get yourself out of state prosecution. you can out of federal. the way it would play out would be if somebody tried to prosecute him federally after he pardons himself, his attorneys would raise that defense, the court would consider it and have to decide this kind of unheard-of constitutional issue about whether or not you can pardon yourself. it would be the first time in history. it would be really interesting. we will see if it actually becomes right. neil: thank you, james. i think you did better on this than you would have on the beer thing. that's my own gut call. >> i doubt it. neil: always good seeing you. thank you very very much. dow is up 116 points. more after this. in a land not so far away, people are saving hundreds

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neil: all right. for a lot of these vaccines, they have to be cold. they have to be really, really cold and dry ice is in really, really big demand right now. kristina partsinevelos following all of that in new york city. how do you see it's changed the entire equation here, hasn't it?

reporter: yeah, it has. that's why dry ice producers are ramping up. you have states that are preparing for the first dose of distribution of vaccines, but the catch is, like you said, it has to be stored at really, really cold temperatures. for example, pfizer's vaccine needs to be stored at negative 94 degrees. so the solution is dry ice. you have producers that are preparing for an influx of demand, but some are a little concerned about logistics and distribution. i say this because normally in the cold months, it's quieter because you don't need as much dry ice, but ever since the pandemic, so many people have been ordering their food online so they see an increase in demand from such companies that is fresh direct, for example. so several dry ice producers are saying right now, they don't know how much they are going to need for hospitals, for nursing homes, for pharmacies. i spoke to one owner in the bronx about this wait-and-see situation. >> we will just have to lean on more manufacturers and

suppliers. it's really a network of people in the business that we can all work together, try to help everybody. reporter: dry ice producers may be overwhelmed in the coming weeks and months with demand, but i spoke to several across the country, and they said that even right now, demand still doesn't compare to when those darned power outages happen and that's when the phones are off the hook. back to you. neil: all right. thank you very, very much. in the meantime, flatbush restaurant group founder and ceo joins us. andrew, we had on yesterday this woman in california who, through no fault of her own, was being forced to shut down while right next door to her outdoor dining area, there was a film industry outdoor dining area, almost the exact same configuration. it was open, hers was forced to shut. this is sort of like the

whimsical kind of wild ways that these are decided. but you are at the mercy of bureaucrats who can't distinguish. what do you do? >> look, i think that that picture perfectly illustrates the policy that we are seeing in so many of these jurisdictions, which is both hypocritical and confusing. where is the level-headedness here? it's as if we can't even just use simple logic to look at two different scenarios and do a comparison. if i can get on an airplane and pack myself in and crowd myself even before any of the hepa filters go on, but i can't sit in the beautiful outside air and dine out. neil: what do you do? you are doing everything right. she was doing everything right. what do you do? >> unfortunately, i think it's up to business owners right now, as well as consumers, to start to really kind of weigh their own cost/benefit analysis, determine okay, what's the risk factor here and i mean that both from a business perspective, what's the risk factor if i start to get fines and you know,

does the cost outweigh any of the benefits, and also what are some of the soft benefits associated with standing up and saying hey, look, unless you can provide us the data, right, i'm not just trying to pretend like i'm a scientist but where's the data that proves that wee what are doing will lead the a spike in coronavirus when there's exemptions that defy their own logic. so it's very confusing. neil: you know, when i had a chance to talk to her on this exact same subject, she raised the bigger issue about keeping like her restaurant closed and there are real health hazards to that. i want you to react to this, where she talked in much bigger terms about what's at risk here besides simply closing a restaurant. >> how long is this going to go now with this spike? is it going to go three months? neil: it's apparently another three weeks at a minimum. can you survive -- >> at a minimum. neil: at a minimum. >> we have to -- we are going to die from poverty.

we are going to die from depression. we are going to die from suicide. if somebody doesn't do something. neil: what she was saying, you kind of touched on it, andrew, another few weeks of this or whatever they decide in new york, whatever they decide in michigan as they slap down still, you know, tougher timetables, more and more restaurants will just go under. what do you do in the meantime? >> in the meantime, i think it's just up to all of us to stand up and just stay open. and you know, i'm not one, we have taken this very seriously so i'm not one to try and create some sort of rebellion but at the end of the day, there's a tipping point. i think everybody sees that and it's the consumers as well. what galvanized that for me is when i stood up and kind of made my statement, the amount of support that i have gotten has been 99.9% positive from consumers saying hey, i can't speak out publicly but we are going to support you, we are going to come in, we believe in what you're saying and everybody does, because they understand the hypocrisy. it's really up to us because look, even dining outdoors at

the end of the day, that's one hour of reprieve for somebody who might be indoors with panic disorder and they just want to get out and they want to be able to sit outside comfortably and just release for a minute. we are all experiencing that level of, you know, kind of claustrophobia, mental claustrophobia. it doesn't really make sense and i hate to use a cliche like that but it's really that simple, to any consumer, anybody who is not a scientist, to see what we are seeing from the politicians and our leaders, but then to be given these mandates which they don't follow themselves. neil: what do you do, though, if a policeman comes by and forces the issue? >> well, they could come by and force the issue and they will, and they have. so first and foremost, i offer them one of our top sellers on the menu which for our case is grilled cheese. if that doesn't work, i try and reason with them. if that -- neil: that would work for me. >> when you come in, i know what we are going to be serving you. if we can't reason with them, we have to accept the fines. i think there's enough people

that are willing to support us such that our increase in revenue is going to outweigh those fines. now, if things get pushed legally into this realm of kind of criminal defiance, et cetera, i think we are starting to get into more constitutional issues where obviously, yeah, you got to lawyer up and try to use the system that's in place in order to succeed as a business, when there really isn't any evidence in terms of data proving that what we are doing is increasing a spike in coronavirus cases. neil: no, you're right about that, because for the life of me, you are the expert, i'm not, but i have been looking everywhere to see all right, if they are shutting down restaurants or limiting their hours or extending shutdowns that could go another few weeks depending on the state locale, they must have proof that it's restaurants where this is happening, it's at bars where this is happening, and i haven't seen that data to prove that. so you are an easy target. i'm just wondering now, you know, you are doing everything again, you are honoring distancing provisions, you are keeping things immaculate on

site, servers and everything else with the mask thing and all of that, and it's never good enough. how long can do you this? >> we can't do it much longer. i mean, if we have to shut down right now ahead of the holidays, we are going to lose restaurants, we are going to lose a significant number of our staff and ultimately, yeah, there could be a full failure. we are seeing it right now. thousands, tens of thousands of restaurants are shutting down and all those people hired, all those people had other employees, service workers and contractors, and look, the egomaniacs up there must think we are stupid because you can't exempt an entire industry, i.e., entertainment industry in l.a., and say oh, well, they are exempt because they are essential, right. but science doesn't show they are exempt. you would think maybe medically if they were all immune to the disease by virtue of antibodies or something else, they might be exempt. i can understand that but they are exempt because they are essential? i don't know about you, but i don't need to watch tv although i don't say they shouldn't be working. i believe we all should be working so i don't want to hurt the entertainment industry, but it's just this pick and choose

and this selective nature by which they are making these kind of economic decisions, because that's what they are. they are economic decisions. they are not human decisions. they are hurting so many people. they are taking out the little guys because they know that we don't have the cash flow in order to lawyer up and fight these, you know, these gratuitous regulations. neil: remarkable argument. andrew, thank you very much. i have been looking at your menu as you're speaking here. we got to talk, my friend, and we will. thank you very much. andrew gruel, slapfish restaurant founder and ceo. we are getting to the point where enough has got to be enough. i felt like... ...i was just fighting an uphill battle in my career. so when i heard about the applied digital skills courses, i'm thinking i can become more marketable.

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neil: lit. this "operation warp speed" event is beginning at white house. a who's who of players not i might point out players like pfizer and moderna. we'll monitor closely as well charles payne. hey, charles. >> neil, thank you very much. good afternoon, i'm charles payne. this is "making money." we're waiting for president trump to address the "operation warp speed" summit as we near potential fda green light maybe tomorrow in fact on one of the main vaccines. i will ask dr. jenette nesheiwat my own questions about distribution and also ethical concerns that keep popping up. meanwhile the market resolve continues as major indices turn higher but too many of you not trusting the best observer of opportunities out there in the whole world, yourself. forget the jargon and get in the game. the clock is ticking