to take over. >> great ideas, thank you so much. for more check out darren star, don't forget the follow us on twitter at barron's on line. that's all for us.ee you. i'm elizabeth macdonald. you've been watching "the evening edit." have a good weekend. larry: hello, everyone, welcome back to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. markets closed mostly higher, except the dow which ended down. but we begin tonight with a somewhat arcane senate rule. but it's a rule that could determine the success or failure of pride. en's far-left progressive agenda and the success or failure of the economy. we know that the president has no real intentions of going bipartisan on key senate votes. there is no unity. the democrats steamrolled the so-called covid stimulus package by using the 51-vote reconciliation. so it may come down to an arcane

senate rule called the filibuster, and that requires 60 votes to pass most legislation. president biden and senate democrats want to end the filibuster or at least modify it enough to vastly reduce its power. in a 50-50 senate, very hard to get 60 votes. but a 51-50 vote to overturn the filibuster just requires that vice president harris buy a sleeping bag and camp out in the capitol to be on call to cast the deciding vote on every single piece of legislation in order to pass the democrats' central planning, big government vision of transforming america. as you know, i don't want to transform america. i just want to move it back to prosperity with free market, supply-side, incentive-oriented policies. but the fate of the economy and perhaps the stock market and a return to rock bottom unemployment may well hinge on this filibuster battle. so it's not only an inside the

beltway issue, folks, it has big meaning for main street, blue collar america. for example, the filibuster could determine huge tax hikes, smashing fossil fuel energy, ending worker rights and freedoms, passing the minimum wage, expanding obamacare, cutting defend spending -- defense spending, promoting serious immigration reform, federalizing elections,en significant new gun controls and ending protections for an unborn child's right to life. that's how important the filibuster rule may be. republican leader senate mitch mcconnell threatened scorched earth senate breakdown, what he called, and i quote, a 100-car pile-up. nothing moving. end quote. if the democrats really march to end the filibuster, that's what the republican leader is going to do. a car pile-up. all right, good for him. the question is, is all this going to work, and where are we going.

so let's talk about this today, kim strassel, who writes the potomac watch column every friday for "the wall street journal" and whose piece today is called a day in a scorched earth senate. she knows whereof she speaks. all right, kim, wonderful to have you on the show, number one. and great column today. let me just get your quick take. so mcconnell is, you know, no go, no go, he's going to fight back. can he stop the democrats from fiddling with the filibuster? >> well, first of all, larry, so great to see you back in the hosting seat. thank you for having me. i think what mcconnell was trying to do this week with that speech was to say, look, if you guys really do pull the pin here and you decide to get rid of the filibuster, don't think that those, all those claims that all those scholars have been telling you that this will just free everything up and finally legislation will flow is going to happen, because we have a

senate that a actually places the greatest amount of emphasis on individual senators' rights. and they have endless numbers of tools to grind that place to a halt. so if you think the senate is broken now, the argument that democrats make, wait til you see it if they decide to destroy the last thing that actually makes that place work which is comity and which is senators agreeing to allow business to happen. because it won't happen if there's no filibuster. larry: well, one of the interesting parts of your column today is that you note there are 44 standby rules that would essentially have the same effect as the filibuster, as you said, protecting the minority. what are some of these key rules that could be employed if the filibuster is overturned? >> so the biggest one is the use of unanimous consent, okay? right now if you're chuck schumer, the majority leader, you have to ask for unanimous consent in the senate dozens

upon dozens of timeses to do anything. if you want to open the senate before noon, you need to get the agreement of all 100 senators. if you want to go on to a bill, you need unanimous consent. if you want to stop a debate, you need unanimous consent. if you want to dispense with the reading of the journal of yesterday's senate events, you need unanimous consent. if even one senator objects, then you need -- in chuck schumer's case -- all 50 of your senators and kamala harris to override that objection, assuming all republicans are there. so they basically are setting up a scenario in which they would need to live and breathe and eat in the capitol for now forward. larry: so -- >> that's ooh just one. larry: so, you know, mitch mcconnell is on to something. he can cause a hundred-car pile-up if he so chooses. kim strassel, let me just ask you, will all of the other republican senators in the conference stand by the filibuster, in your view? >> all the republicans stand by

keeping the filibuster? larry: yes. >> yes, absolutely. because they understand the importance of minority rights. and something i keep reminding people, larry, is that, you know, this option was available to mitch mcconnell a couple of years ago when he was majority leader. and, in fact, he was under enormous pressure from a number of republicans to get rid of it, and he didn't. he protected his democratic colleagues in the minority and the sanctity of the senate and these key rights. and so, you know, republicans remember that, and they are now in the minority, and they will stand by keeping the filibuster. larry: do you think i'm overstating the case, you know, this debate could determine, you know, jobs, taxes, right to life, immigration and so forth and so on. i mean, to me, this is a gigantic thing. your column illuminates it. so does the editorial page. i'm not sure if people know how important this is. this is not some esoteric, inside the beltway thing. this is bigtime.

>> this is everybody's life, you're absolutely right, larry. here's the reality, the senate is not broken, okay? the senate and the filibuster, we have managed to pass consequential pieces of legislation all through history with the filibuster intact. the only thing that's changed is that you have a democratic majority who has got one of the most radical agendas ever introduced in the country and who is unwilling to compromise at all on it. and so they're not going to get ten senators to go along with legislation that would federalize elections, for instance. raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, basically a climate agenda that would shut down all fossil fuels in the country. because it's an out of control agenda. if they want to see things go through the senate, there's a very easy fix which doesn't involve destroying senate rules, it's called put forward some legislation that actually has bipartisan support. larry: kim, my producers are screaming at me, but i want to ask you one thing, one little

more thing. quote: earmarks are the government's bridge to nowhere. no, earmarks are the gop's bridge to nowhere. "wall street journal" editorial. a gateway drug to spending, as the late senator tom coburn saidment what's happening here? why are republicans backtracking on a long promise? >> i have no idea, and it's only going to hurt them. they can never stop themselves. they want to spend more, they're making all kinds of highfalutin arguments about why they need to bring this back, oh, we need to control where money goes in a democratic agenda. this is about pork products, larry. they could have used this against democrats in next year's midterm to great effect, and now they've just put themselves in the trough. larry: i don't want get it either. kim strassel -- i don't get it either. kim strassel, see you soon. all right, folks, democrats' massive spending bill was supposed to pump up the stock market, remember? but a week later after it's

signed, that's not really happening. our next guests will try to make sense of it all next on "kudlow. ment" what's supposed to happen is not really happening. i wonder why? i wonder why? ♪ i wonder why? ♪ i wonder why? ♪ i wonder why? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ easy tools on the chase mobile app. simplicity feels good. chase. make more of what's yours.

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so-called stimulus bill, stocks have actually gone down much more than they've gone up, and market interest rates have only gone up. more cash was supposed to stimulate9 the stock market and, in fact, the younger generation is investing a lot of their stimulus cash into the stock market, but the rally that was to happen isn't really happening. at least not yet. i'm puzzled. i wonder if the stock stall has anything to do with the growing likelihood that team biden and the congress could throw the proverbial kitchen sink at business full of anti-profit legislation, anti-competitive legislation, taxiv hikes, ending fossil fuel energy, you know, just anti-business. maybe stocks just taking a breather because there seems to be no bears out there. i've asked our viewers who know a bear to please get in touch with me. so far no takers. now, vaccines are surging. this is the good news. business and school lockdown is ending, more good news. herd immunity

is on the horizon. more good news. so there is likely to be an economic boom in the months ahead, no doubt. question is what about the longer term, and is that what stocks are focusing on? >> so here to chew an on all this, ed yardeni president of yardeni research, joe lavorgna, chief economist for the nec. he's now back with an investment bank. i haver to get everybody's title in, it's very important. all right. joe lavorgna, guy to you. actually -- i go to you. actually, your little missives i read, i read both of you, but they aren't that bullish, joe. what's going on? stocks are supposed to go up. they're not really. interest rates are going up instead. what's happening here in. >> we're throwing a lot of money at the economy, larry, as you know. growth is going to be over 6% this year, and that'll be the best year since 1983. my concern is what happens next.

there's a lot of evidence that suggests when you have a boom year, the economy slows markedly thereafter, and the problem this time around is if it's a sugar high due to stimulus that only affects the demand side, growth inevitably will weaken, and i'm worried that growth in 2022 will be a good deal softer than what most people expect. larry: ed yardeni, is that a fair threat, in your view? >> well, i i think the market basically looks forward by 6-12 months, and i think right now it's just focusing on the next several months. the reality is it's hard to ascribe any rationality to the market. the market's been just flooded with liquidity. the liquidity's still there. i can't tell you why it took -- i mean, i know why it took a breather the past few weeks, bondks yields have gone up. the reality is both the stock and bond market are anticipating that all this liquidity and this latest round of checks -- you

know, this is the third round of checks -- is going to create a boomingat economy. and i agree with joe, it's going to be at least 6%, maybe 8%, somewhere in between in terms of the type of growth. that's great for earnings, but at the same time i think the bond vigilantes have arisen from sethe dead and are worrying that inflation might make a comeback. so we've hadat a really rapid increase in the bond yield, and that, i think, has put a bit of a damper on the stock market. but i wouldn't underestimate the liquidity that's being flooded into the system again to keep this bullke market going.ng i think we're still in a bull market. larry: bond vigilantes, a term coined by ed car tenny back in the '-- yardeni back in the '80s and '90s. joe, a lot of people surprised, the 10-year treasury, the bellwether, is up actually 100 basis points from the lows, something like that. it happened kind of fast in the new year. that was not expected.

now, how far's it going to go? you're still under 2%, joe. what happens if the 10-year crosses 2%, and maybe that's what's bothering the stock market. >> yeah, we've not seen the highs in stocks for the cycle, but the market will start to discount weaker growth maybe early in the second half of the year, that being the stock market. the bond market, larry, is the same thing. the 2% 10-year, i'm going to mark down by forecast a little bit because psychologically, in my opinion, it would hurt equity investors, it would certainly dent housing, and while we're predicting very strong growth in 2021, it hasn't happened yet. and we know in the past a lot of keynesian demand-side politics where people get excited about growth, in the past it's always been growth underperforms, not overperforms. so 2% 10-year, to me, is too

high. larry: ed yardeni, you've got to be right. the economy is going to boom in the months ahead. profits are being marked up constantly, which is great. they're still the mother's milk of stocks. but, ed, in all honesty, the administration is aiming at business. i mean, their tax hikes on large companies are going to cut profits and profit estimates if they go through. and they are taking other measures against fossil fuel companies,s, for example. i mean, at what point does that filter into stock market psychology? >> i think, you know, i'm k getting more and more questions from my institutional investors about thenv outlook for costs of doing business next year, and i think everybody recognizes that there's a high probability that there will be an increase in the corporate tax rate, that there'll be more regulation, maybe even more esg requirements in terms of disclosure of what

are you doing towards diversity, what are you doing towards the environment, and that's going to be expensive. so i think joe's right, at some point the market is going to realize that this boom year could be followed by a much slower year next year. on the other hand, i do see a technology revolution out there that has been accelerated by the pandemic that's increasing productivity. i'm not as worried about a 2% bond yield being a problem for the market. i mean, before the pandemic we had 2, 3, 4% bond yields for a few years without any grim consequences, and so many companies have refinanced their debt at record low interest rates that the initial impact, as joe said, is probably going to be in the mortgage market. but, you know, one of the big problems in the housing market right now is just no supply. people are going out there getting really frustrated because they can't find existing homes or newxi homes. larry: both of you on the way

out, one word. between now and year end, bull or e bear? ed yardeni. >> bull. larry: lavorgna. >> who said two economists can't agree? bull. larry: you see? i cannot find a bear. there are no bears in america. it's fascinating. all right, gentlemen. good rundown. i appreciate it very much. two bulls. [laughter] we'll see, you're probably going to be right. i don't want to be a pessimist, just saying, there are a few things on the horizon. thank you, gentlemen. coming up, folks, president biden and his left-wing greenies just keep using the same phrase over and over again. >> to confront the existential threat of climate change. >> climate change represents an existential threat. >> existential threat. >> existential threat. >> existential threat. >> on this existential threat. larry: got -- is it really? they all must have gotten the same memo.

i love this. meanwhile, obama's former undersecretary of energy, steve koonin, physicist, doesn't agree with them. he's up next on" kudlow." please stay with us. please stay with us. ♪♪ yeah, i mean the thing is, people like geico because it's just easy. bundling for example. you've got car insurance here. and home insurance here. why not... schuuuuzp.. put them together. save even more. some things are just better together, aren't they? like tea and crumpets. but you wouldn't bundle just anything. like, say... a porcupine in a balloon factory. no. that'd be a mess. i mean for starters, porcupines are famously no good in a team setting. geico. save even more when bundle home and car insurance.

♪ >> that's why i'm signing today an an executive order to supercharge our administration's ambitious plan to confront the existential threat of climate change. it is an existential threat. larry: well, they sure say it a

lot. they all got the same memo. so is global warming really an existential threat? then, of course, you've got surging sea levels about to inundate our coasts. or are hurricanes and tornadoes really becominges fiercer and me frequent? is climate change really going to destroy our economy? really? let's bring in one of the best experts in the field, steve koonin, former undersecretary for science at the department of energy under president obama. he is now director of the center for urban science and progress at new york university. he's a former theoretical physics professor at cal tech. his new book is "unsettled: what climate science tells us, what it doesn't and why it matters." and i'm going to fess up here, he is also my mentor on the issue of climate change. i've been following him for years. he visited with me several times in the white housement steve koonin, welcome to the c show. i've just got too ask you right at the top, you know, sea

levels, global warming, destroying the economy, hurricanes, is all this stuff really true? >> well, you know, every time i hear somebody talk about an existential threat from a changing climate, i'm reminded of a line from the classic movie "the princess bride." you keep using that word, the science, but i don't think that word means what you think it means. and, in fact, discussions of existential threat, climate crisis, climate disaster are really at odds with what the official science says in reports that are issued by the u.n. and the u.s. government. larry: tell us more, steve, because this is it, you know, you heard all those sounds, quotes from biden and yellen and all the government leaders, existential threat. tell us why not. >> well, there are some things you read in the reports, first

of all, i think everybody agrees that the globe has warmed about a degree from 1900 until the present, and that warming is due to some combination of human influences and natural influences. but beyond that almost no severe weather event shows any detectable trend. there are no long-term trends in droughts or floods around the globe and severe weather events like thunderstorms, sea level is rising at the spectacular rate of 1 foot per century and was doing it at about the same rate 80 years ago. of in -- in the u.s., record hih temperatures are no more frequent than they were in thei 1900s. i can go on and on. nos detext bl human influences n hurricanes. this is not me talking, this is what's in those reports often explicitly but sometimes a little bit obscured, and you've got to read closely to find it.

larry: so, actually, i want you to go on and on. i'll give you 45 or 50 minutes on the show -- >> oh, okay. a. larry: i mean, look, all these people, they got the memo, existential threat. you're saying factually it's not true. what's interesting, you just mentioned global warming is partly manmade and partly natural causes. now, i've read this because i've followed youke so closely, and we've talked about it. abolishing fossil fuels may not be the answer. what are the natural causes, for example, that they're not talking about? >> one'r we understand actually pretty well is the volcanic eruptions. when a volcano goes off and it's a big one, it puts aerosols dust into the stratosphere. that lasts for a couple years and cools the globe by about a half degree over a couple years. and we know that, we kind of especially understandrs it. kind of understand it. but there are long-term cycles

in the climate cycle that we have a very poor understanding of. and if we watch one part of the cycle over the last 30 years, we can be fooled because in the distant past it was actually going down instead of up, for example. and the models that we use do a pretty poor job of reproducing those cycles. larry: did you say one-half a degree in the last hundred years? >> we went up by one degree in the last hundred years. and what's interesting about that when you look at the record is it's not a steady increase. it warmed pretty rapidly from 1910-1940, actually cooled a little bit from 1940 to 1970, '75, and it's been warming again rapidly from about 1980 to the present. so even as human influences have increased steadily during that time, the warming has not at all been steady which tells you that there are other things happening. larry: all right. let's explore the other things when we come back with you.

we're going to keep you for another segment, and how is the forecasting game in this climate change issue and what should we be doing. we'll be back. more from steve koonin in just a minute, professor koonin. stay with us, we're debunking a lot of myths here by somebody who is in the know. ♪ ♪ it all starts with an invitation... ...to experience lexus. the invitation to lexus sales event.

get 0% apr financing on the 2021 rx 350. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. keeping your oysters business growing get 0% apr financing on the 2021 rx 350. has you swamped. you need to hire. i need indeed indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/promo larry: okay, we're back with physicist steve koonin, formerly of the obama energy d., professor of physics at cal tech, now with nyu. he is my mentor on the issue of climate change, and he's got a hot new book coming out, i think, in april. first of all, steve koonin, how is the forecasting? if you know, this doom and gloom game is all predicated of forecasts over the next, what, 90 or 100 years. how do those forecasters do it? >> you know, it's a really tough business because human influences and other influences

are physically small. it's about 1%. and untangling all of that from the natural variability is difficult. nevertheless, people build large computer models that take months to run, and they try to project what's going to happen with the climate over the next 80 years, let's say, you should different assumptions -- under different assumptions about greenhouse gas emissions, aerosols and so on. some of the predictions are kind of surprising, the one that may be of most interest since yours is a business show is what the economic impact is. and if and if you read the official reports put out byff the u.n. and the u. government, they say for the warming of 3 or more degrees, let's say 4 degrees by the end of this century will have a minimal impact on either the u.s. ormp the global economy. larry: really? >> about 3 -- yes, 3-5% which is

equivalent to two to three years' worth of growth 70 years from now, all right? so, you know, when i understood that, i was shocked, okay? and that's why i think anybody who's talking about existential threat, climate crisis, disaster probably hasn't read the reports. larry: i mean, you've got the treasury secretary who is a pedigreed,d, distinguished economist, federal reserve board, so fort and so on, she's out there saying it. you're saying it ain't true. >> it's not i say it ain't true, it's what the official science says, the gold standard that everybody looks to. and i can only conclude that people have been somehow misinformed. larry: all right. either thatmi or just uninforme. maybe they just don't do the reading. so, steve koonin, going after fossil fuels, all right, ending carbon emissions, oil, natural a gas, coal, for example, methane

in the next four or five years and then a tougher regulation by 2030 and 2035, is that the answer? >> i think rapid and major changes in the energy system are just not going to fly. energy is too embedded throughout society to make changes by tooth extraction. i think instead we need to be thinking about otter doneture if you want to change the system. [laughter] larry: i likey: that. that's very good. i hadn't heard that before. so thee. book's coming out in a couple of weeks. by way of solutions, you don't have to reveal the whole book because i want people to buy it, but what are some of your thinking on constructive solutions, let's say. >> yeah. i think the first thing we need to do is keep improving the science, or okay? andd you might think that's self-serving, after all, the guy's a scientist. but we really need to understand the climate system better, what it's doing and what it might do

as we go into the next many decades. the second thing is we need to get better at communicating the science. we've not done a very good job at all, and i've given you some examples of surprises that people will find when they really understand the science. i think after that we need to have a real debate. because this is not just about the science, it's also about values, how much risk are we willing to take, how we balance economic development against the environment, intergeneration aleck bity. i mean, i have kids, i'm just about to have my first grandkid, and i care as much about them as anybody, but there's a whole big world out there as well. there are 3 billion peopleua without adequate energy. we've got to get g them energy i somehow so they can improve their lives. so it's not just about what the sciences, says, but it's -- we need to mix in a thoughtful way

the scientific discussion together with the societal -- larry: i have to ask these questions. you don't have to be a climate denier, you're just asking important questions and raising scientific facts. you know, bjorn lomborg, i don't know if you know him or not, his argument is -- and also former energy secretary dan brouillette, we need a large portfolio of energy sources. we shouldn't be cutting back. we should have a lot of power to power the economy in the next hundred years, andnd they both argue for private sector and maybe some government r&d on advanced technology and innovation to help us get through this. your thought? >> yes, absolutely. you know, i helped, matter of fact, iel led the writing of the first energy technology strategy for the department of energy back in 2011. and i think the government has an important role to play in pre-competitive technology development, advanced solar

clearly. i think we need to be able to improve the electrical grid independent of what we do about greenhouse gas emissions. it's stuck in the 19th century, and we should haved a 21st century grid. i also am a fan of small modular reactors. larry: right. >> you know, wind r and solar oy produce electricity when the wind blows or the sun sun shine. and unfortunately or fortunately, we need electricity all the time. and so you have to have baseload. and right now we have no ways other than nuclear or gas in order to provide that baseload. larry: this is exactly what former energy secretary brouillette said, baseload and nuclear have got to play a big role. and it is getting smaller and cheaper, but we've got to help it along. actually, i've heard bill gates talk in the same, very similar terms, all right? and he's trying to fund technology, although he's -- by his own admission, hasn'ted had much luck.

what about, finally, natural a gas? clean burning fuel, very popular. i think it's up to maybe 40% of our u.s. power. i hate to see us ban natural gas, sir. yourir thought? >> oh, absolutely not, we should not be doing that at all at least for the next many decades. natural gas is domestic, it's clean,es as you mentioned. we have plenty of it, so much that we're beginning to export it. i think it's -- and it's flexible. you can turn it on and off on, you know, a few minutes' notice in termsic of generation. and is so we need to keep using natural gas. it's's cheap enough that it's squeezing our coal on economic grounds, and we should let the market do that if that's what it wants to do. larry: all right. terrific stuff. illuminating. that's physicist steve koonin, folks. he's got a new book coming out soon.

one click on amazon, is my hunch. professor, hope you come back oumany times. thank you very, very much. >> be happy too, larry. okay. larry: up next, folks, very tense moments during this first meeting withet biden's team and china's diplomatic team. so what's all this going to mean for our relationship with china? this is a rough meeting for a bunch of dip lows. we're going to talk about it with former national economic council deputy director clete council deputy director clete williams

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♪♪ >> i'm hearing deep satisfaction that the united states is back, that we're reengaged with our allies and partners. i'm also hearing deep concern about some of the actions your government is taking. >> the united states does not have the qualification to say that it wants to speak to china from a position of strength. larry:gt whoa. very undiplomatic. folks, we're going to turn now to china and the meeting between our top diplomats and theirs in anchorage, alaska. now, secretary of state blinken warns that china's reactions could result in, and i quote, farr more violent war, end quot. while beijing's top minister accused the u.s., get this, of slaughtering black americans. this is from the excellent

summary piece provided by politico. that is rough stuff. the big u.s./china clash. a lot of confrontation, no comity. as i said before, team biden has been tough on china following president trump'spr dramatic reversal away from chinese shenanigans and back towards america first policies. but this one looks like a brawl. let's get some commentary here, bring in clete williams. lovely to have you, former economic nationalil council depy director. he worked for a terrific guy, and former deputy assistant to president trump. he is now a t parter in at the w firm akin gump request. clete, this sounds like a wrestling or a boxing match. you and i have been to a lot of trtrtre meetings with the chine. i never b heard language like this. >> no, it's pretty rough, larry.

and let me, first, say it's a pleasure to be here with you. it was an honor to work with you, it's an honor to be on your show. larry: thank you. >> but, you know, the meeting -- [laughter] the meeting was rough. and it's not totally surprising to me. athe tensions have really been building between the unitedbu states and china, and we're early in the biden administration. and they don't really have the personnel in place to set things up for a more productive meeting. now, but you and i know, as you said, we've been in the room, and we know that sometimes what you say in front of the cameras is different than what you say behind closed doors. and i think we need to wait to see what comes out of it. i i know i'm hoping that the u.. makes two points very clear to china. i think the first one, as you alluded to, is we need to let them know we're not going back to the obama days. president trump changed the playbook on china, and they need to make clear to china that the same policy is going to be moving forward so that we can actually understand each other clearly and hopefully make some progress. and the second thing i'm going to say is that i do think just opening up these lines of communication is important.

we don't need big, grand strategic dialogue, but just having the relationship so we can pick up the phone is important so we don't miscalculate and we don't end up in a conflict when tensions are so high. so i think those are two things that i hope they can achieve this week. larry: well, that's constructive thinking, but the chinese foreign minister or whomever it was accuses us in this meeting in front of the press of killing black americans. now, i don't know what, you know, that is, like, i don't know, he must be a woke follower or something, or, you know, cancel culture, hates cops. i mean, he's engaging in american politics. it's very insulting. now, a couple points on this. first of all, do you know -- and i know it's fresh off, we don't have all the answers yet -- did blinken stand tough? did secretary of state blinken, did he stand tough? >> based on what we've seen, it looks like he did. and after the chinese came in with their very inappropriate intervention, i mean, i think it's pretty hypocritical for them to be planing about what we

did when they've got genocide going on in shenyang, but blinken really made clear that it was unacceptable and a violation of protocol. so i do think we should give the biden administration credit. larry: as i have. by the way, on this show bob lighthizer, wilbur ross, robert o'brien, they've all, you know, applauded biden's tough on china so far. so we agree, and when they, you know, when they do good, i salute them. just another thought, clet the e. again, we've been to all these meetings mostly on trade, but other things too. what was the purpose of this meeting? because it sounds toos me like this is -- you're going to come away from this meeting saying it was not good, kind of a failure, and opening up the lines of communication. it does not sound like that. what was the purpose of this meeting, do you reckon? >> well, i think it was primarily on the national security side and on the foreign policy side where that's where they're trying to start to make

progress with china, to make clear to china that what they're doing in shenyang, in hong kong, in taiwan is up acceptable. and that's -- unacceptable. is and so i think that was the primary focus. but i do go back to what i was saying. when you do have this heightened situation, iei do give at leasta little credit to this idea you need to build some rapport with folks on the other side so you don't have these very dangerous miscalculations. so i think there's a little bit of value in that. larry: but, clete, yeah, i agree, but it just sounds to me like this confrontation is growing, and it's going to become tougher and more militaristic. that's what it sounds like today. last thought. >> yeah, i'm worried about that, larry. and i think we need to find a way forward where we're empowering folks in china who want to move in a different direction, who want to open up, build on progress from the phase one deal, and we need to try to encourage those people to have a

greater say in their society. larry: well put. no, no, that's exactly right. we should keep pressing those freedom thoughts across the board. thank you very much, appreciate it. great to see you. >> all right, folks, the global economy was booming, and then the coronavirus hit and the lockdowns began. our next guest says that when politicians lost all basic common sense in their response to the pandemic, we're going to talk w to real clear markets editor and author john tamny next up with his new book when next up with his new book when "kudlow" continues yeah, i mean the thing is, people like geico because it's just easy. bundling for example. you've got car insurance here. and home insurance here. why not... schuuuuzp.. put them together. save even more. some things are just better together, aren't they? like tea and crumpets. but you wouldn't bundle just anything. like, say... a porcupine in a balloon factory. no. that'd be a mess. i mean for starters, porcupines are famously no good in a team setting. geico. save even more when bundle home and car insurance.

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larry: our next guest, brilliant write, he doesn't seem to think much, however, of our government's supposedly anti-covid lockdown of our economy. so i want to get right to it. we welcome john tamny, director of the center for economic freedom at freedomworks. he's the author of when politicians panic, the new

available for preorder now. one click on amazon. you did not think much of the government's response i'm going to give you the floor what is the point of your book, give us the theme. >> the simple truth when a virus strikes the only answers economic growth. when you go back to the 19th century broken femur was a death sentence per being born was a death sentence ammonia was the captain of man's death what changed in w the 20th century economic growth that produce the resources necessary for doctors and scientist to basically make it possible to use the die to live long lives. so when the virus struck cicely because some people thought it was lethal that was the essential time to maintain economic freedom and the right of people to produce the production is what enables medical advanced so people can live longer.

you would never fight a virus with economic contraction which is what panicky politicians did. larry: on this point, i go back and i was on the task force plugging it through and the trump administration. we close down committee gates supposedly, no one really had the conversation that you want to have about the economy's future or the closing of the schools and psychological damage and that conversation has been happening in the last few months and if you go back at the height when the roof fell in, no one really talked about that. >> historians were marvel at the response to this because the more threatening of viruses what if the imperial college had predicted 10 million deaths government force -- who needs a law to avoid death. what you need is economic growth and even higher rate to produce

the resources necessary so doctors and scientist can find an answer to what ails you it is the idea of economic contraction economic bankrupting businesses and putting people out of work virus vway to mitigate a defies basic common sense and it speaks to the danger of putting so much power in the hands of very few at a time of crisis they actually are the crisis there the self-fulfillment of what they deem a danger by acting. larry: beware of the planner, god help us from the planners. >> absolutely, last thought. larry: all have you on the radio so we can talk more but the only thing close to what you're saying in growth and prosperity came with operation warp speed we have unleashed the pharmaceutical sector to grow and do good and produce vaccines in six months. that is only thing that worked out, last word. >> exactlyor the truth that's wt

you want economic growth so you can have those advantages and you don't have a with contraction. larry: go by his book, we will be back on monday i am "kudlow"o ♪ elizabeth: the biden administration suddenly find itself and not one but two public feuds the heated war of words with china and russia the question what will the biden team do differently and this a new gallup poll shows nearly half of americans see china as our number one enemy. is it right for democrats take hill a push by democrats representative eric swalwell from house intelligence over swalwell's ties to the inspected chinese by a top republican says an fbi bef