>> what i missed with "varney & company" on with you every day, capitals all over the world. top quizes by stuart varney. stuart: i used to do that all the time. capital of sim bob bay is? stuart: harai test me, test me. >> what were on of the biggest ones. you tested us on? stuart: mahre taken yaw. here is neil cavuto. neil: the trenton new jersey for a brief year was capital of the united states. just finding out about that. stuart: times change. neil: exactly. thank you, stuart, very, very much. sandra, good hering you as well. dow selling of, not as dramatically as early on. we're getting a sense they turn on every item and news nugget they get at least right now out of washington. of course as stuart was just telling you joe manchin saying we're not going to default.

doesn't mean we're not going to default. he thinks any debt crisis could be avoided government shutdown or worse default on our obligations. remember what constitutes a default is not paying the bills. if you can't pay a social security payment, u.s. interest payment to a u.s. bondholder, technically you're in default. we never done that for the long history. fears are we could stumble into a series of events that would do just that. that is the concern. that's the worry. is it a worry to kenny polcari, stone wealth chief market strategist? what do you think? how much is washington playing this market? >> listen, i think it is all entainment in washington because i don't think the market is so concerned about the debt ceiling. the other day when joe biden made the comment that the debt ceiling would cause stock prices to go down, people as pocketbooks, dude, it is not the debt ceiling that will cause the stock prices to go down, it is

inflations, interest rates, expectations, earnings, nothing to do with the debt ceiling. the debt ceiling is entainment. that is kind of a sideshow. i don't think the market is in turmoil, down today the way it is whipsawing monday, tuesday, wednesday over the debt ceiling conversation. it is concerned about taxes, tax spending, potentially what will happen but certainly not the debt ceiling and i don't think the taxes in the spending plan is bothering markets that much yet because they're at a stalemate. joe manchin, krysten sinema not moving. 3.5 doesn't look like that is going to be the number. therefore we're all sitting waiting for that. i think the turmoil isp more around inflation and rates. that's what is causing the turmoil now. neil: you're certainly seeing that in energy prices like a backup in the 10-year note. i noticed across the pond in great britain, their 10-year note is now at the highest since what, may of 2019. so it is picking up steam.

you and i talked last time talked about it building steam everywhere, not just here. >> right. neil: a lot of people immediately leap on the idea of the inflationary spiral of the '70s. where are you on this? >> listen, you and i both lived inflationary spiral from the late '70s, into the '80s. i don't want to go back there t was zero for so long. if we go to zero or 9%, it will feel like it felt in the '70s, '80s, went from five to 10 to 15%. it will be the same 10%age-point move, i think it will feel much more dramatic this time because we only went from zero for so long, suddenly if we get the spike f we get a slow move, the economy improves, wages improve, it starts to move up slowly methodically, maybe not so much but if we get the spike, some people think we're going to get, i'm kind of in the camp i think

it will spike. i think the fed will find themselves in a very tough spot. i think once again that will cause markets to become a little anxious and reprice. by repricing you will mean it will sell off a little bit but selling off doesn't mean it's a disaster. it means it is repricing what the outlook is. investors should understand that. neil: very volatile, think about it, huge swings, today not withstanding, what yesterday up 312 points. monday down 324 points. friday before, 408 points and october is still young. what are we looking at? >> i think we still have through the end of the month i think it will remain volatile. don't forget you also have a lot going on within mutual funds as they prepare for cash they will need to pay out year-end, all that stuff. this usually is a time when you see a lot of selling happening. october tends to be that month, right? i think people should be

prepared for more volatility as we go into the middle of the month and the end of the month. earnings start in earnest next week when jpmorgan starts. we heard pepsi. jpmorgan is the first dow stock. they look at thats being the official start. i think we'll hear a lot more from these companies about input prices an inflation and profit margins and some companies will have pricing power while others are not. pepsi came right out and said look, we've got pricing power, our prices are going up starting today on some of their products. that will be the theme that we hear going forward and that is going to kind of keep the markets on edge a little bit as investors begin to really price in, what will this look out five and six months out in the guidance that we're going to get from these earnings reports. neil: we'll watch it. kenny, thank you, good catching up with you my friend. kenny polcari. go to hillary vaughn in

washington right now. this is the latest attempt, the third one, hillary, democrats are trying to find a way to address the debt ceiling impasse. apparently they will try to act on their own, here. reporter: neil, at 2:30 hold procedural vote trying to get 10 republicans to move forward to lift the debt ceiling but the clock is ticking down while congress is trying to figure out how to avoid a debt crisis. the debt clock is ticking up. the government could be running out of money to pay its bills sooner than we thought. the bipartisan policy center is updating the new forecast. the x date could be as soon as october 15th, just nine days away. both parties are busy trading blame, the other party's fault going to risk of default, the president will talk to mitch mcconnell. but so far the president hasn't picked up the phone. >> i have had the surreal of

experience watching both of president of the united states and the senate majority leader be asked about the future of the u.s. economy. their respective responses were quote, that is up to mitch mcconnell. or, ask mitch mcconnell. well what about the third democratic leader, the speaker of the house? well she is headed to europe. reporter: 2:30 democrats will try to raise the debt ceiling. they need 10 republicans to let them go forward. that is going to fail. even a delay could be a dangerous game. moody's analytics if the government is under default for four months, gdp down 4%. unemployment would shoot up and 6 million jobs would be lost. there are options for the democrats to dodge but they could use reconciliation. he said reconciliation is red line they will not cost. they could create an exception for the filibuster to raise the debt.

they need all democrats on board. senator joe manchin saying moments ago he is not down with that. he wants, mcconnell and schumer to start talking. >> i implore them, to engage, start working, work this out. this should not be a crisis. i've been very, very clear where i stand where i stand on the filibuster. i don't have to repeat that. i think i've been very clear. nothing changes. but the bottom line is we have a responsibility to be the adults. our leadership has the responsibility to lead. and that is what i'm asking them, imploring them to do. reporter: third option, neil, could have the treasury mint a trillion dollar coin but treasury secretary janet yellen said yesterday she thinks that is just a gimmick and not a real option but it is one if they are desperate. a trillion dollar coin could be minted within minces. then it is a helicopter ride away to deposit the trillion dollar coin at the northbound fed. but neil, if you're the guy

carrying that trillion dollar coin, you got to make sure you don't drop it on the way. neil? neil: i heard many asinine ideas in washington. the whole trillion dollar coin thing might take the cake. we live in desperate times. call for desperate measures. that has dr. evil written all over it. a trillion dollar -- i'm done. hillary vaughn on that. you know, we have never defaulted on our debt in the long and illustrious history of our country but that didn't stop us from getting our aaa credit rating downgraded in 2011 when s&p, ratings agency at the time said it wasn't that it wasn't resolved at least to their liking but that the whole process was a mess and compromise, investors face worldwide in american securities. that was then. a fellow who was a pivotal player in that at the time with president barack obama, the former speaker of the house

john boehner who joins us right now. of course he has still out there, you can still get the book t was a great book. "on the house." a washington memoir. i still argue this is the best cover of a book i have ever seen in nonfiction. so, speaker, it is always, always great to have you. what do you think of what is going on down on the hill? you visited these type of things a few times, including that 2011 close call that prompted you know, a ratings agency to nick our aaa rating, what do you think how that compares to now? >> well i think it is pretty similar. you know i told president obama when i became speaker in january of 2011 that i wasn't going to increase the debt ceiling without doing something about our spending problem. and you know, finally we came to an agreement. unfortunately two days later, three days later the president walked away from the deal and at

the last minute we ended up with a sequester, not a very nice way to cut spending but we did in fact cut a couple trillion dollars worth of spending over the next 10 years. but you know, so they're having this little fight. i think the debt limit will get increases some way, shape or form but nobody seems to want to talk about is mitch mcconnell is a smart political player and he made it clear they're not voting for the debt ceiling. he has been saying it since spring. i don't know why the democrats haven't listened to him. if they want republican support they will have to do something for republicans. maybe like, let's get rid of the 3 1/2 trillion dollar reconciliation bill. we'll vote for the infrastructure bill but give commitment there is no vote on the big spending bill and we'll vote with you to raise the debt

limit. neil: but you're not saying don't vote for it, don't attach it to this or make it contingent on this, is that the issue? >> well, no, no. a commitment there would be no bill. neil: they're not going to go do that, right? the speaker will not do that, democrats won't do that. the other option they explore, "nuclear option" democrats are considering to sort of make a carveout here with a special, you know, debt limit consideration to break the filibuster and require only a simple majority to push this through. what do you think of that? >> well i don't think that is going to happen either. remember, neil, it is only october the 6th, deals in washington don't happen until they have to. neil: all right. i think we just lost our link to speaker boehner. all right. i'm sorry, speaker, we just lost

your audio. i think you were saying we have to get closer to the october 18 deadline for people to act? >> yeah. it is only october the 6th. things in washington don't happen until they absolutely have to happen. i would just relax. they will find a way to get there. it will not be pretty. it will be up to the edge. they will figure out a way to get it done. neil: speaker, i neverred into, you hear the barbs back and forth. chuck schumer said democrats voted for president trump in the pickle three times during his presidency, and now republicans are fine ones to say they're going to not do that. what is the real story on that? in the end both parties look at history, seem to come together grudgingly but that doesn't appear to be the case right now. >> it just depends are what the

political die nams are at the moment. the democrats control the house, senate, and white house. this is their problem mitch made it clear this is their problem. unless be republicans are given something in the negotiation which hasn't started yet what incentive do they have to cast this vote when in fact democrats could pass this all on their own? so we'll wait and see. neil: you were in the house obviously. the senate has this weird, you know filibuster feature that you know some love, some don't love but that if you go ahead and push the measure democrats are starting or a carveout for simple majority vote when it comes to things like dealing with the debt, some of your former republican colleagues say, well you know, you start making exceptions here and there, there goes the filibuster. would you care either way if that goes in the senate? >> the filibuster is frankly has made the senate the senate. if you get rid of the

filibuster, hell, the senate will look just like the house. it is not just manchin and sinema opposed to getting rid of the filibuster. there are other democrats who understand that the filibuster is beneficial to both parties in the senate over these last 100 years. and so the filibuster is not going to go away. if you make one exception you might as well get rid of it and i don't think that is going to happen. neil: speaker, you worked with joe biden as well in the past and i'm just curious, many are coming out after him now to say you know, tow the progressive line, it appears he has and does, he seemed to take the progressive side in of course linking the bipartisan infrastructure bill vote with the far bigger so called human infrastructure plan and he is sticking to the notion both get done and will not separate them. a lot of people saying this is not the guy who was voted for

president of the united states. is he? is this him the guy you knew returning to his roots or is this the guy who has, women call up the far left of his party? >> neil, joe biden is not a progressive liberal democrat. he is a traditional middle of the road democrat. he got elected not because he was promoting the progressive agenda. he got elected because he wasn't donald trump. what i don't understand while he had to tow the progressive line in order to get the nomination, and maybe to win the election to get people to turn out, the fact is you have a 50-50 senate, a nearly 50-50 house. the president didn't win by some big margin. it has been clear since election day especially in early january when those two senate seats in georgia, that this is going to

be a minimalist agenda to get anything done. why the president and his staff continue to tow this progressive line is beyond me because it is not going to happen. the votes aren't there to do it. and this wreck has been coming for months. we're seeing the first stages of it. but get ready it will get a lot wilder before it is over. neil: before i let you go, there is a lot of rumblings forget midterm next year, but the 2024 presidential race. everyone apparently is holding back who might be entertaining a presidential run waiting to hear what donald trump decides. if it looks like donald trump is going to run, do you think anyone will challenge him? >> listen, neil, i don't know what will happen tomorrow much less three years from now, all right? it is a long way off. people want to speculate about it. i'm sorry it is really doesn't

matter. a long way away. we'll see. neil: okay. as you know donald trump has been very critical of mitch mcconnell. you had some good things to say. what do you i think what he said? the guy is a disaster, has to be replaced, behind the scenes urging other senators to take him on for republican senate leadership. what did you think of all of that? >> mitch mcconnell is a solid leader of the senate and has been for many years. his members trust him instinctively. he knows more about the senate rules than frankly anybody else in the senate. he has done a marvelous job of moving a republican agenda and frankly preventing this far left-wing agenda from being enacted. i think he has done a great job. neil: so would it be best the president not badger him? >> the president can say whatever the president wants to say. it will not move mitch mcconnell one iota.

when mitch get as bone between his teeth, he never lets it go. neil: there is that. john boehner, great seeing you. the book is, "on the house." a washington memoir. he speaks his mind like he just did there. it's a fun, fun read. if you don't even want to wade into the particulars, get it for the cover, please get it for the cover. we have a lot more going on. john boehner optimistic eventually they will get through this. we have done it 79 times since 1960 here so what is the to stop it from precipice of a potential government shutdown, make it all work out an 80th time? we shall see. ♪.

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with more. reporter: neil, that is a great question. you're right right now republicans and democrats are all on the same page. one they don't trust what facebook is telling them and two, they are fired up. they want to get something done to make sure that they can control or regulate facebook in some way and other big companies just like it. this comes after facebook whistle-blower frances haugen told them right here on capitol hill, the site, is quote, morally bankrupt, claiming its algorithms, neil, allow the spread of misinformation, stoke divisions and even harm children, really all to put profit first. facebook ceo and founder mark zuckerberg responding to her testimony saying the argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. he says we make money from ads and advertisers consistently tells us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content. so we asked facebook vp of content policy today, you know,

would the company pop up the hood and show how its algorithms work? listen to what she said. >> we explain in our transparency center the is types of content we reduce the distribution of and types of content that we recommend or promote. so it is not quite the same thing as showing ones and zeros. reporter: not really sure there. not a clear answer. facebook is going a step further, neil, pointing the finger back at congress now really requesting lawmaker create some universal standards for the entire internet instead that did not go over well with republicans or democrats. watch. >> you would rather avoid these problems, his mmm-0. no acknowledgement. no actions. reporter: things are not good between the two groups. a lot of senators are ready to take action to, protect children

online, strengthen competition to protect your data. the biggest takeaway, neil, by partisan support to reform section 230. that is currently giving websites a lot of liability protection no matter what is posted on their sites, no matter what content pops up they are protected. senator blumenthal said today and yesterday he wants mark zuckerberg to come here to testify in person or respond to the whistle-blower's claims. we'll see. neil: ashiah, thank you very much. aishah hasnie following all of that. let out of all of this is this outage we had the other day where facebook was down for upwards of six hours. that did a lot of people who use facebook to, advertise their wares and their businesses you don't get a chance to do that. customers can't find you. doesn't my next guest know it. jd whoen, van hollen farms owner. what happened to you? operation crickets for you, no one could see you, right?

>> right. so thank you for neil, having us on. at the end of the day, i was on the phone, i just received a message for an order and i told her i said, hey, listen, if you could go to this other facebook page we use. i said check something out for me. she said my internet is down. call i.t. she gets on another phone, it wouldn't pull up then. so it was kind of odd. i get home and get back to the mercantile, and i was like, let's pull up facebook. well at that moment on the app, all of my, all of my businesses pages were gone. i was like, oh, my gosh. neil: wow. >> where are our pages at? so i had a gust feeling something wasn't right. i had not been hacked before but where my password wouldn't work, had to reset that, but as far as like not being able to see any of my stuff or load it, you

know, i kind of went into overdrive because if i didn't have that gut feeling, oh, this has got to be big. i didn't even really know anything was going on at the time. so i got on twitter. check one out to do the other and twitter what is going on with facebook? they had their statement, i was like that is a little vague you know. that didn't sound right to me but, you know, so i got the calling a few other business owners. i'm not one to sound the panic alarm but this was big for us you know. because a lot of us, especially in a small town we rely on the facebook live, we rely on what facebook can do for us from a small business perspective. neil: sure. when that is down your business is down. did you hear anything, jd, from facebook afterwards? it lasts six or seven hours, when things popped up did all of your stuff popped up as well, did they ever apologize to you

or clarify things to you. >> neil, let me tell you this, i've been waiting for an email, you know, because we, we run ads on sunday. to answer your question, no, we have not gotten an apology you know, or getting ad credits back? is that something that is going to happen? we have not heard anything. i know a lot of us use, like i said we use those ads and on sunday night we send out boosting posts for the week. that is one of those, one of those things, are we going to get a credit? how is facebook going to take care of business. we spend 50, $100, doesn't look anything to them, but again from a small business perspective when you rely on that you absolutely need to -- neil: very good point, jd. you mentioned at the outset you checked on twitter to see what the heck was going on. would you consider, because twitter was not affected by any of this, moving your business, moving a lot of that to twitter? is that even feasible?

>> yes, absolutely. so my, i tell them i have to get in my, what can we do. for that six hours i really focused hard on getting, you know, like, should i go ahead and open twitter? should he get my customers accustomed to twitter coming in? i have got tiktok going on. is that something i need to focus on as well. it really made me get into my thought zone there and say, hey, is this something i need to always rely on? because if it goes down once what is stopping it from going down again? neil: you make a lot of very valid points. jd i hope everything smooth out here. you deserve some sort of clarification or apology from facebook for unnerving you. jd holland, van holland farms mercantile owner. you forget that, when the site shuts down, everyone who uses that site, including everyone who needs to make a living.

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♪. neil: all right, the dow down about 325 points right now. maybe some of this has to do with questions over whether jerome powell will be reappointed. i think not but you know, what looked like a quasi-sure thing might not be a sure thing. we'll probably know in the next couple of weeks i guess, charlie gasparino, right? >> i want to say thanks from greg valentino -- neil: guy with the big arms. >> not long after we reported out absurdity, booted off twitter hooking up with me, being sexually explicit put him on. neil: for people hearing this it was not a sexual overture. >> no. greg is an old friend of mine. great bodybuilder. neil: i wouldn't argue with the guy. >> largest arms in the world. stuck the steroids back in the day in his arms. [laughter].

neil: all right. really settle that. >> he is a great guy. he turned his life around. he is an author and journalist. he is back on, thanks to you. he wanted me to thank you. neil: thanks to you. the world is a better place. >> greg valentino on facebook. neil: what is going, speaking of nothing, jerome powell? >> i notice have your deft staff have not put photo. neil: they don't want to scare people. they have standings. >> you will never get valentino mixed up with jerome powell. neil: they will not. try to see how any way they're related. >> here is the thing, my sources, wall street lobbyists types who deal in capitol hill and report back to the big wall street firms, they say by the day they believe powell's chances of being reappointed are slipping. neil: really? >> the reason why is because the democrats, what democrats -- neil: need as majority in the senate to go? >> the democrats really want him

out, particularly the progressives. they see him as the impediment to the $3 trillion, five trillion dollars, whatever they're spending here. the numbers are in flux, they're high. neil: ridiculously high. >> ridiculous. he is the impediment. here is the thing, neil, he wants to taper beginning next year sometime. means stop the bond purchases. neil: or slow them down. >> slow them down. you cannot taper bond purchases at a time they have to sell that much debt. there are not enough foreign buyers for the debt. neil: zero cost, not impact the debt. maybe you need to talk to smarter people then because they're not in on this? >> maybe joe should freak his geritol. when you say stuff like that it leads to the question you're out to lunch. no offense. neil: the guys you're talking to say it's a mistake. >> the progressive say we need

the fed in the market buying the debt f the fed does not, if the fed tapers, you sell, cut package down to a trillion on the infrastructure and two, seems like manchin will deal on two, two for the human infrastructure, that is still three trillion dollars of debt they have to sell. if the fed is tapering you're going to get higher interest rates. you have to have higher interest rates. neil: seeing it now? >> much higher interest rates. guess what that means? that means you will, could have recession. so that is what we're talking about here. the way they're talking about it will be paid for, they don't tell the people this exactly, but it is by the fed, monetizing the debt. these tactics. neil: always is. >> these tax increases are all baloney. this is the fed involved. that is how they're going to pay for it. if jerome powell is tapering how do you do that? how do you do that without higher interest rates? neil: good point. >> the biden administration right now is sticking by him. remember the veto is elizabeth warren who wants him out.

neil: all you need are 51 senators. >> to approve him. neil: yeah. you could see 49 people saying no to him? >> why not. neil: just checking. >> why not? neil: seem sensitive on the steroid -- >> you going back to steroids. by the way you made a good point. neil: it happens. >> powell looks like alfred. neil: reminds me of alfred from batman, very calm. maybe that is what we need. maybe, maybe not. >> he is telling i guess biden, elizabeth warren is not to be trifled with. neil: pretty good. >> didn't michael caine say that to batman, not the trifle with? neil: that is the deep voice ben affleck version of batman. >> ben affleck was the worst batman, beyond horrible, horrible, horrible. he is from boston. and they beat the yankees which is horrible. neil: which will the ceo of gm, mary barra, she is next.

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♪. neil: you know you hear a lot about this supply chain snafu. chips are in very, very short supply. it is hitting all industries particularly the auto industry and gm ceo mary barra trying to do something about it. big announcement today. let's go to grady trimble with the latest what she is planning. grady? reporter: hey, neil. it is investor day which is all about the future but we also wanted to talk about the short-term challenges with those chip shortages that are plaguing all of the automakers and especially general motors. in the third quarter sales of new vehicles fell 33% year-over-year largely because of that chip shortage. i asked ceo mary barra when the supply of chips will stablize? >> in third quarter we were hit maybe harder than most because some of the specific facilities in malaysia were heavily

impacted by covid. we had a team of people there. we shared our safety protocols to enable them to safely get people back to work and, you know, that is why we have confidence as we move forward we'll start to see more and more recovery as mark talked about. reporter: when do you expect that to be? >> we expect a improvement in the fourth quarter and expect to continue to improve into next year. you asked about longer term, longer term we're looking at you know, how do we have a different relationship, go deeper into the tier 2s, 3s, 4s, make sure we have secure supply. because we see tremendous growth. reporter: joint ventures, partnerships with those that produce? >> we'll be looking at a range of arrangements but the key thing is we'll have a, you know a dedicated and a, we'll be confident in the supply that we need. reporter: we're also learning more about general motors' plan for electric vehicles, announced and all-electric blazer and a

equinox. equinox, $30,000 more of a fordable option than previously unveiled electric vehicles from general motors like the hummer. they're focusing hard on software and zest driving technology and electric vehicle delivery company called brightdrop and rideshare company cruz. barra sees today as an inflection point pour general motors. >> gm is transitioning from an automaker to a platform innovator and the vehicle is really becoming a software platform that not only, you have to sell the vehicle to get access to that. that is why we think we have some of the most beautiful vehicles we've had own the road in my career but then also, being able to have a complete software and services business on top of that, opens up tremendous growth with a very different margin structure. reporter: we also talked about

infrastructure. the bipartisan $1.2 trillion package that includes money for ev charging stations throughout the country but it doesn't include a tax credit for new vehicle purchases. gm is no longer qualified for that so they would rely on a change of the law to welcome that again. i asked her about that. that is included by the way in the $3.5 trillion package which the business roundtable doesn't support. >> well you know i think there is a lot of complexity that congress is working through right now to get the right elements into the bill. we feel that the ev tax credit is important to make changes to that because right now first movers were disadvantaged. we have been selling electric vehicles for a while. so we reached our cap. we think opening it up so we have a level playing field, we can continue to incentivize people to move into evs is the right near term solution. so we are supportive of that as a company for sure. as well as r&d tax credits. we'll be making investment in

this country for manufacturing here. reporter: berra says general motors is still on track to go all electric, fully electric by 2035. i asked about adoption of electric vehicles of consumers, neil. she says they are confident people will buy what they have to offer here. neil: going full throttle, no pun intended. that was good, thank thank you,y trimble with mary barra. lauren fix, who knows her auto stuff and much, much more. lauren i'm always amazed with the push for electric vehicles, gm's case, all that way 2035. couple years away, is the demand there to match all this? >> no. honestly i don't think 2035 will be it. remember as the next administration comes in, whenever that may be they will have a different initiative and we've seen this before whether

past administration what is they want but 2035, sure you can have electric cars. everyone should have electric cars. you can have that option but if you drive across this beautiful country from coast to coast, i've literally been in every state, it is fine when you're in big cities or suburban areas. you look at some rural areas no way electric applications will work. they will have to have the infrastructure which is not there. remember, we can't put this load on this electric grid. the electric grid is a big part of it. like saying everyone has to suddenly go hydrogen. it pace great solution. there is no infrastructure to build it. to buildout the electricity, all those superchargers, trillions and trillions of dollars, who will pay for this? we come back to that, you say this every day, who will pay for this? this is part of the same thing you can give people money to incentivize it, but doesn't mean they will buy it because it may not fit their needs. neil: this partnership barra is

doing with these chip, semi chip players to get control over the trip shortage, gm fears runs well into next year, by the second half of next year they see things i improving, do you? >> we were hoping it would be done by the end of this year. neil: right. >> it's a bigger picture than what we're seeing. you have chips sitting out on ships you covered many times out on long beach, the new york harbor, waiting to off-load. beyond that you have to remember where are materials that make this, what's going on? there are different types of chips. some are more updated and current. car industry is little behind. the beautiful screens, the new mercedes-benz has a 56 video screen but that is great and autonomous, think of how many thousands of chips to make this new technology? even more basic vehicle still needs hundreds of chips but if you're missing one, the vehicle

can't be built. this is where we are now. in order to go vertical, in other words what mary was saying, try to work with some of the subsuppliers. they shut down during covid. now they're back up, they're also missing materials in order to finish the project. neil: got it. lauren, great catching up with you, automotive sector analyst the following that. taking a look at bitcoin, suddenly it is all the rage again. what's going this is my grandda's cute like her grandpa. on?

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neil: all right. take a look at capitol hill, the corner of wall and broad where stocks are selling off but they're hoping right now we can avoid any debt limit crisis, or god forbid the default because the latter has never happened before. we had plenty of crisis before, haven't we? one of the options democrats are considering today, the so-called "nuclear option," just debt related issues, a debt limit crisis issue, they will forgo the filibuster, in other words a simple majority it will take to get us over the hump and never ever use it again. all right, good luck with that. after this. (vo) while you may not be running an architectural firm, tending hives of honeybees,

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♪♪ ♪ >> i'm geraldo rivera, and i have been at fox news for 20 years. i remember when it started in the basement right in this building, and everybody said no chance, no chance at all. we'll be a fringe product for a slice of the american people. they took all of these people from all these different walks of life, put them together and allowed them to be themselves.

that's what is unique. they've also said do your thing, get as close to the action, we trust you. nobody here has told me what to say. my point of view is often at odds with many people in this building. still they let me say it. this is the embodiment of the first amendment and good journalism and service to you. neil: it has been a remarkable 25 years. i was here from the very, very beginning, and a couple things hit me. when we started out, i but one of the more young people here -- [laughter] now i'm like popeye in the crowd. [laughter] welcome back, everybody. we've got a lot going on in this second hour as we charge ahead here. the dow jones industrials down about 251 point toes. we had been down a lot more, about 27 of the dow 30 stocks are in the red right now.

concern seems to be about china getting increasingly bellicose, about jerome powell, about where he's going to be reappointed, inflation, will it ever subside, doesn't look like it is, rates have been backing up and is also concerns right now in washington that, well, the government might go broke and go under. now, that last one is a little bit overstated here because we've dodged this bullet how many times, right? 79 times since 1960. no jokes about me being around back then -- [laughter] calm down. but that is the big, big worry here, that someone's going to slip up and make a mistake, and before we know it we could have not only a shutdown, but a default. remember default, i know i keep repeating this, is when you can't make good on a payment, cannot abondholders, social security recipients, that has never happened in this country's long history although ten years we had something very close to

happening. s and p downgraded us anyway from aaa to aa+. and, of course, that was then. some people figure just the ridiculous back and forth on this and pushing it to the end could get us in trouble again. other ratings agencies have hinted at such is. interest rates right now still over 1.5% on the 10 is-year note in this country. by the way, the u.k. equivalent, their 10-year guilt, is also back up to highs we haven't seen since may of 209 -- 2019. [laughter] 25 years ago she wasn't even alive -- [laughter] now she's this big business rock star. >> i always wanted to know how did fox news steal you away 25 years ago? >> field. food. where do i sign? >> look at you now. neil: look at where we are now. i have to ask you this on the markets and all this, they don't

anticipate that we're ever going to default, right? and i get that. >> correct. neil: but they get antsy the closer we get to the deadline. >> as they should, october 18th is when it's going to run out of money, that's like two weeks away. so, yeah, there are some concerns. volatility is kind of a hallmark of october -- neil: it is, you're right. >> you were around in 1987, remember that? black swan -- maybe not around for 1929 and that stock market -- neil: well, i was around for that too. [laughter] >> yes. october typically, yes, we have seen these huge crashes, and i would say october is a little bit better than september. september is historically the weakest month of the year. but people are looking at, you just is brought it up, that 10-year yield, it actually dropped today to 1.51, and the reason is because we had a surprise build all of a sudden in oil prices. that came back down a little bitted today, nat gas highest we saw, yesterday gnat gas is down

about 8%ed today which is the biggest drop we've seen so far this year. it's still going to be expensive to heat your home, but the fact that the yield is coming down because commodity prices are coming down -- neil: reminders, if we needed it, that inflation is a big market-moving event one way or the other. any hint that if it gets passedded, they go nuts, that maybe some pockets calm down, they're okay. >> yeah, that's right. and we have seen volatility jump already so far this month. and you brought up the u.k. guilt which actually kind of surprised he -- [laughter] the reason why it's up, did you see nat gas jumped 35% in one session? neil: that's right. and crude, that's been popping -- >> very good. neil: normally history is such with inflation it doesn't just come and go, it the sticks around a while. what do people tell you? >> it's not going to be here for just a few months.

it's already tell straiting that this weather's going to be pretty expensive to heat your homes, right? maybe abate next years in the her time? you've been hearing that from the federal reserve. 1.5% for the 10-year yield, a lot of people have it priced at 1.7 at the end of this year, we're still at 1.5 which isn't that much of inflation. it's definitely there, but it's not at the worst end of it. and if you look at goldman sachs' predictions, very bullish happening in the last three months of this year. they're still predicting that the s&p 500's going to finish 9% higher from today's level. neil: i saw that. very different than some of the other firms. the fed fund futures -- >> you. neil: i think most people are betting in the second half of next year interest rates start going up. >> well, i think -- let's see what happens in november. i think most people think that's going to take place -- neil: where the federal reserve starts buying fewer securities.

>> i love how you explain it. you do it so much better than i do. obviously start raising rates thereafter, maybe in the back half of next year before the yield starts going up. neil: all right. the president of the united states, secretary yellen with him, meeting with business leaders and big bank ceos -- >> and this is to state the obvious, an important get together. and i'm going to make some brief comments, maybe ask a few questions and then we'll yield and go down the road here, and maybe we can all of us both virtually as well as in person here, we can hopefully make some progress. i want to thank the secretary of the treasury, secretary yellen, congress secretary mondeaux, it's -- rah rah mondeaux, it's good to see you, and the hearn

association of retired persons, aarp, bank bank of america, cit, deloitte, intel, jpmorgan, nasdaq, the national association of realtors and raytheon. and for joining me today to talk about the need to raise the debt limit. we haven't failed to do that since our inception as a country. we need to act. these leaders know the need to act. the united states pays its bills, it's who we are, it's who we've been, it's who we're going to continue to be, god willing. that's what's called the full faith and credit of the united states. let me be clear, raising the debt limit is paying our old debts. there's nothing to do with new spending or what may be coming this year or other years. there's nothing to do with my plans on infrastructure of building back better, both of which are paid for the, but they're not even in the queue right now. it's about paying for what we

owe and preventing the catastrophic event from occurring in our economy. i'm glad these leaders are are here to talk about the real world impact it's going to have on people and on our position in the world. today's discussion won't be partisan, it shouldn't be. raising the debt limit is usually bipartisan. let me speak for myself here. i want to be clear so the american people understand what's going on. there's a senate vote today to raise the debt limit. traditionally, it needs only 50 votes. i was -- we were informed by our republican friends that they had to be all democrat voteses, they weren't going to help. okay, we'll provide 50 votes. the deaf -- the definition, the democrats willing to step up and stop this economic catastrophe if senate republicans will just get out of the way. but our senate republican friends are planning to block the vote to raise the debt limit

by using the procedural power called the filibuster. to say that in plain english, it means you have to have 60 votes when there's a filibuster, 60 votes, supermajority. instead of 50 to get anything done. it's not right and it's dangerous. and the reason that we have to raise the debt limit is in art because of policies of the previous administration which incurred nearly $8 trillion in bills in four years, some of which democrats voted for. more than a quarter of all the debt now outstanding. we had to raise the debt limit three times when donald trump was president. and the republicans moved to raise it each time, and each time the democrats supported the effort to raise the debt. but now republicans won't raise the debt limit despite being responsible for the what the debt limit, why it has to be raised for the bills that are outstanding. they won't raise it enough

through -- if they don't, we're going to be defaulting on the debt that risk the market tanking and wiping out retirement savings and costing jobs. defaulting on the department, which secretary yellen said could happen at any day after october the 18th if we run out of money, means that social security benefits will stop, salaries to service members will stop, benefits to veterans will stop and much more. the failure to raise the debt limit will undermine the safety of the united states' treasure securities, threaten reserve status of the dollar as world currency and the world relies on, down grade america's credit rating and result in a rise in interest rates for families talking about mortgages, auto loans, credit cards. my friends, and they are many of my friends, the senate republicans' position i find to

be not only hypocritical, but dangerous and a bit disgraceful especially as we're crawling our way out of a pandemic that cost america 700,000 lives thus far, and we're still battling it. our markets are rattled, america's savings are on the line, the american people, your savings, your pocketbook are directly are impacted by this stunt. doesn't have to be this way. my republican friends need to stop playing russian roulette9 with the u.s. economy. if they don't want to do the job, just get out of the way. we'll take the heat, we'll do it. we will do it. let us do it. let the democrats vote to raise the debt limit without obstruction or any further delays. house democrats have already passed the bill that would do that, raise the debt limit and is keep the government functioning. it's sitting in the united states senate right now. democrats, with no help from

republicans, have the votes today to pass the debt limit. the path republicans offer would take the us right to the brink and cause irreparable economic damage, in my view. so let's vote and end this mess today. that's only way to eliminate the uncertainty and risk that will remain for american families and our economy if we don't. for more than 200 years, america's built this hard-earned reputation of the strongest, safest, the most secure investment in the world. and that's why the united states is a financial rock the world looks to and trusts. now, on one cynical, destructive partisan ploy, republican friends are teat therring on that brink here -- teetering on that brink here. they're threatening to boot that all away. now it's a meteor headed to crash into our economy. we should all want to stop it, stop it immediately. this shouldn't be partisan. and i'm thankful for the leaders

who have shared the urgency on why we need to act and we need to act now. many of them are here with me. not next week, now. look forward to hearing from their perspectives, and we'll now get this meeting started with my colleagues' permission. i'd like to start off a, if i may, with a question for james frazier, the ceo of citi. and, by the way, congratulations on your award. you run one of the largest banks in america, and what impacts are you seeing or do you think you'll see from this obstruction? what does it mean for the small businesses and everyday people if we renege on the debt here? >> thank you or, mr. president, for inviting us all to talk about this critical issue. as the head of a bank, i don't have insight on what the right legislative solution is, but i can tell you that from an

economic perspective we need to resolve this issue very quickly. every day of delay right now comes at at an increasing price as we've begun to see in the markets already starting last friday. america simply cannot default on the debt because the u.s. treasury market is the bedrock of our financial system domestically and globally. and defaulting is going to cause lasting damage to the credibility of the united states and in financial markets around the world. but as you say, the ram by occasions are not -- ramifications are not limited to the markets. it's already beginning to cause some damage in the economy. it will hurt consumers, it will hurt small businesses. and it's not an exaggeration to say even small distortions in the treasury market can cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars over years. consumers can be burdened with higher borrowing costs very

quickly whether they're the putting something on a credit card or they're getting a mortgage. and for small businesses trying to recover from the pandemic, this comes at a very critical time. so we just can't wait til the last minute to resolve this. we are, simply it, playing with fire right now, and our countries has suffered so greatly over the last two years, the human and the economic costs of the pandemic has been wrenching. and we don't need a catastrophe of our own making to undermine the progress that is underway. so we really urge the administration and congress to do what's necessary to resolve the situation for the good of our economy, for the good of our country. thank you, mr. president. >> thank you. and you make a very good point that we're, god willing, i think we're just about to begin to turn the corner again on the pandemic.

an awful lott of small businesses -- lot of small businesses, tens of thousands of them, have acquired significant debt. we've provided significant relief as well, but it's just an incredibly complicate feature. i'd like now, with her permission, i'd like to ask anita friedman, the ceo of nasdaq, whether she'd be willing to give us her thoughts. and thank you for taking the time, ms. friedman, to talk to us. >> well, mr. president, thank you very much for the opportunity to address the current situation. we are starting to experience elevated volatility in the market which can be partially attribute to the uncertainty that's been introduced by the delay in approving the extension of the debt limit. we would expect that a continued delay in extending the debt limit would further destabilize the markets, and when we consider the broader economic costs of the you were centiand, certainly, a -- uncertainty, we would, as jay mentioned, higher

borrowing costs for consumers and shawl businesses as well as delays -- small businesses as well as delays in much-needed to major social programs such as social security and medicare. when we look at these delays and certainly a default will mean that hard working americans will ultimately bear the burden -- neil: the president's having a powwow with bank ceos, you know, industry leaders, you're listening to the head of the nasdaq right now. you also herald from the city green chairman, others are there as well to put in their two cents about this concern they have that we're going to not adequately address the debt ceiling or get so close to causing a crisis that the nasdaq ceo says it's going to cost a lot more than that. a few expect that to happen -- few expect that to happen, but the treasury secretary cellen is with the president here -- yellen. she has said if they don't get this resolved and soon, we could

be facing a recession. my colleague and friend kennedy on all of this. you know, kennedy, i'm thinking if fear were a motivator, we'd have had this solved. apparently, it is not. maybe john barren had it right that we need -- john boehner had it right that we need to be much closer that this deadline. >> they're talking about getting it done so they can raise the debt ceiling, but we borrow more money to pay for that atrocious spending that is only going to raise taxes and force the government to commit generational theft becausest the younger generations', it's your children and your grandchildren who are still going to be footing the bill for this -- neil: well, maybe there is no bill. won't add one penny to the deficit and the debt. >> well, there is a cost. there's always a cost when you're talking about $3.5 trillion. they wouldn't be talking about the debt ceiling so we could borrow more money. what they could do, what would be the responsible thing especially when you're talking about medicare reaching

insolvency in five years is they could cut spending. but no one is talking about doing that from either party. they just want to keep adding these massive bills one on top of another to the point where the numbers don't even make sense anymore. and i think people like bernie sanders just want to confuse people with utter nonsense so they stop paying attention. but, yes, people are not responding to fear. that's because we've come off the a pandemic where people's lives have been controlled, women have not been able to enter into the work force because their kids were kept home from school for a year and a half, and that sort of control has gotten them no where. kids are miserable. businesses are still and sputte, and the government is asking to take more money so, yes, there's a great deal of mistrust there. neil: getting back to whether we're going to default or not, they've already got a number of contingency plans. federal government is creative with coming up with plans to keep things going, but the weird one i've heard is a trillion dollar coin --

>> yes. neil: -- that, you know, the treasury could mint very, very quickly, and it immediately got me thinking about this. >> transfer a nuclear warhead to the united nations in a few days. here's the plan. we get the warhead, and we hold the world ransome for $1 million. neil: how about $1 trillion? in one coin. >> that's more like it. neil: i don't get it. >> it's such a stupid idea, it doesn't make any sense. it is the theoretical money because what they're saying is we're going to mint a trillion dollar coin out of platinum, because you can't do it out of silver, gold, and there's only so much paper you can put into the money supply, but nobody said anything about platinum. why not go bigger? why not rode yum?

or california yum? or antimatter, the most expensive stub stance on -- is substance on the planet. neil: is the argument you can bypass what are your eliminations are by just having treasury mint a coin, why not mint $30 trillion to deal with the whole thing? >> yeah. that's why people hate the fed, because they do is tipger the around -- ticker the with the -- neil: said something earlier, not that we weren't in rapt anticipation, but this notion that we can be very creative at finding ways to get money, right? but not very creative in how we spend it. >> no. neil: and i'm wondering whether that's the argument lost here. we keep bumping up against these ceilings because we keep spend ising. and we're going to keep doing it. in fact, ten years ago we had our downgraded because ratings agency said enough of this

nonsense is. it's kabooky theater on steroids, and yet it keeps happening. >> yes, and it's a shell game. i over the pandemic became expressed with marie condo who goes into people's home and helps them declutter. in term of what we spend money on, we've got way too much clutter. federal government has way too much clutter. we need to get rid of stuff. but instead, you know, we're those people who go to garage sales and walmart and just get more stuff, and i somehow shoving more stuff into our closet is going to make us happier and solve the problem? no, it compounds the problem. so that's where they're at. yes, they have to prune some of this and the redundancy, things they spend money on, they spend money on the exact same thing with so many different programs, so if you actually had a commission of different parties and people who were serious about getting rid of some of the redundancies -- neil:

[inaudible] >> marie condo, she would fix the world if they would let her. neil: wow. >> she's a tiny woman, and she goes -- [laughter] if something brings joy to your heart, you make that noise. the government is not making that noise. neil: that is brilliant. this is the kind of insight you get 7 p.m -- [laughter] fox business network, monday through thursday, kennedy. i can tell you because how many years have you been here? >> nine years. neil: 25. >> happy 25th birthday, by the way. whoo! it's your show. >> your a great -- you're a great talent, but, you know, you're a great person. >> tell my daughter. [laughter] neil: that's what the teleprompter said, good person thing. that was a joke, a very bad joke. chad pergram is monitoring all these developments, capitol hill. i don't know if he has any trillion dollar coins, but he might, he's rich enough. chad, where are we on this? [laughter]

>> reporter: well, you know, democrats right now are struggling to bring down the cost of the social spending bill. that's the other big debate here in washington, d.c., but they don't want to give up certain programs. >> it's like saying pick your favorite child. these are good programs. i support the bill in its entirety the, and the notion that we have to choose between a child tax credit and daycare for children, family leave is an impossible choice. >> reporter: but there are all sorts of gimmicks lawmakers can use to make a program appear cheaper than it is. one method is to only green light a program for a few years and hope to renew it later. >> it is medicare expansion,s it is immigration,s it is housing and climate change. those five priorities that we immediate to include -- we need to include but perhaps for shorter number of years. because i don't think we can choose and pick between childcare and climate change. i don't think we can choose

between pre-k and housing. finish. >> reporter: but the cost eventually adds up. the program naturally looks cheaper because it's only running for a fixed period now. >> sooner or later you've got to admit to yourself and to your fellow colleagues that the cookie calorie count doesn't change whether you take one bite or ten bites. but that's, in essence, what they're tryinged to do, counting that first bite and saying we'll come back later down the road. >> reporter: such a maneuver gives democrats who are reluctant to support a bill a reason to say yes, and the fuzzy math gives them political cover. neil: chad pergram, thank you for that. they're work on concurrent things concurrently. all right. we have a lot her coming up here including, and this one struck me, home depot is hiring walmart

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neil: all right, home depot and walmat working together, not exactly, but it's an interesting arrangement where home depot will hire walmart delivery drivers. i guess there's something in it for both of them, right? >> reporter: yeah. ultimately the goal is to bring you your packages faster, sooner. they say same-day or next-day delivery. home depot is hiring walmart's delivery drivers to drop off online purchases to customer homes, and home depot's using walmart's network of gig delivery drivers who use their existing delivery platform. they're only going to deliver products from home depot that can fit into a car, so think paints, tools, hammers, nails. and like you said, neil, it's

interesting for both of the companies. home depot can now offer that same-day or next-day delivery without having to build out that infrastructure that experts say is really expensive and hard, the last mile of delivery is the hardest. and so walmart is also getting a new stream of revenue beyond brick and mortar retail, and it's a huge opportunity to gain insights about consumer behavior. texas, new new mexico arkansas,e areas available by the end of the year. we're also hearing, neil, more warnings from retailers saying shop thousand for the holidays because -- now for the holidays because supplies won't be around later. it's really going to impact toys. members of the tonka mighty the dump trucks are saying they're going to leave one-third of the the plastic toy trucks in china this holiday season. the surging price of shipping containers, it's going to be too expensive. right now the cost is reaching $20-30,000, it used to be between 1-5,000.

the retailers say you have to pass that along to the customers. too expensive to bring over, so is you can expect this is something that all retailer thes are feeling. so buy now, buy early or, you know how i feel about it -- neil: i know, a lot of buzz. lydia was saying, you know, the holiday season is about more than just things. and that maybe we should be, you know, not so much focused on those things. >> reporter: i might be on an island here, but maybe it's time for a conversation. we're going to be together -- neil: it's like the end of the grinch. they're all around us. >> reporter: you can call me grinch. neil: they were happy. and they didn't have any container ship issues to worry about. lydia, keep that in mind. if you're panicking about this, you know, 'tis the season. but you better get your christmas shopping done now! in the meantime, you hear about

all these mandates, right? health care mandateing health care workers, others better get vaccinated, lose your job. there is a flip side when a good many choose not to do so, they don't show up for work, all of a sudden you've got a health care crisis, and doesn't dr. eric dixon know it, u-mass emergent health care ceo. very good to see you. i guess be careful what you're demanding, right? right now you've got staff shortages to address, but it's not just on this issue. it's just all building at the same time, right? >> absolutely. we have a critical staffing shortage across our health care system. this is true for other health care systems across the country. it's especially difficult to get staff to work in areas like alcohol, substance abuse areas for people that are detoxing, behavioral health areas, very hard to find people right now.

and even before the mandates we've a had to close some programs down because we just couldn't staff them. neil: i'm wondering, doctor, when you -- on health care worker part who do not get vaccinated, i've always wondered about that. health care workers are the front line of all of this. you would think they'd be the first to want to be vaccinated. what's going on? >> well, it's very interesting that if you look at our residents, about 600 physicians in training, 100% of them wanted to be vaccinated when we rolled out the vaccine program. but often in other areas, lower end of the wage spectrum and ask certainly the educational spectrum, there was as much as a 50% resistance to being vaccinated. and it's not quite clear why this vaccine has been such a problem. we have other vaccines that we mandate, influenza, the flu

shot, measles, mumps, rubella for anybody working in a clinical area, you have to have that vaccine or you can't work with patients. it's never been much of a problem, but somehow this vaccine has become the poster child for you can't headache me inject -- make me inject something in my body. neil: bottom line, it's creating a crisis, and you're dealing with it head on. doctor, keep us posted on that front. we do appreciate you taking the time here. i do want to bring your attention to this paring of the losses in the dow. it might have been grady trimble talking to mary barra when she indicated they're going to beef up their electric car push and it's going to lead to a surge in revenue by 2030, among some of the most bullish forecasts she made, controlling the supply chain more directly and very optimistic that she's putting her money where her mouth is

when it comes to electric vehicles themselves. hoping to be all electric vehicle by 2035. just one of the things that turned around. of course, oil well off its highed today. in the meantime, keeping an eye on oil particularly that spill off the california coast and where things stand now, after this. ♪♪ i've spent centuries evolving with the world. that's the nature of being the economy. observing investors choose assets to balance risk and reward. with one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. agile and liquid. a proven protector. an ever-evolving enabler of bold decisions. an asset more relevant than ever before.

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identified as a 13-inch gash in the pipeline that was displaced by over 100 feet. early findings indicate that they actually, a ship may have come and grabbed on to that pipeline and dragged it across the sea floor. now, of course, there has been an increase in tankers many our port because of the supply chain crisis, but that they be increasing because l.a. has voted to phase out oil production in unincorporated areas. now, industry leaders are concern about increasing our reliance on foreign oil as the u.s. is losing some of their ground in the middle east and opec is standing firm on their current production levels. take a listen. >> we've been curtailing domestic production of our energy and instead relying more more on imports. roughly 70% of the crude that is consume by californians comes

from foreign sources. >> reporter: now industry leaders are also concerned that this could increase gas prices. california state average is $4.42 the, and that's $1.20 higher than this point last year, and l.a.'s oil industry is responsible for 10,000 jobs. and those roles are filled by veterans, by first-generation citizens, and people are concerned that they may not be able to find new work without learning entirely new skill sets. of course, this is just unincorporated areas for the moment, but critics are asking the question what does this signal for the history of l.a.'s oil industry and perhaps for california as a whole? neil? neil: kelly, by the way, i've not had the pleasure, but welcome. very good to have you. how are you enjoying things so far? >> reporter: i love it. i'm so excited to be joining fox family. we've got a lot of stories coming for you on the west coast, so it'll be good. [laughter] neil: thank you, and welcome,

kelly o'grady. it's anyone's guess longer term where oil goes, but of course it has been spiking, hasn't it? depending on what contract, anywhere from 3 to 7-year highs. phil flynn on where we go from here. >> we're getting a break today, neil, thanks to the u.s. energy producer. you know, prices were headed towards 80, and it looked like there was no stopping, but kudos to the energy producers in the gulf of mexico that risked life and limb to try to bring back production. but make no mistake about it, we have a very tight situation when it comes to oil supply and natural gas supplies. there is no room to for error in the global system, so any disruptions could mean the prices could speak spike to historic levels, and that means it's going to hurt you in the pocketbook. neil: so i wonder given that, we still have a global economy that

has its fits and starts, i get it, phil, but it does seem to be building to the point that the demand will still outstrip the supply. and i'm just wondering how that plays out longer term and some of these oh issues -- other issues, particularly if it builds steam on curtailing drilling after this oil spill in california and all that. >> i'm afraid the way our political situation is with an anti-energy policy and, for example, the situation in california where politics are going to use it as an excuse to ban production, it's going to lead to a situation where the only thing that's going to slow the down the priceses where it pushes us into a version. it's kind of interesting, of course, you have a lot of people that are anti-oil, but then they complain when prices go up like they've gone up. and listen, what's a happened in california, neil, is a terrible thing. it should never happen. you know, but things do happen, and i think when you talk about

energy, you know, we can always replace it with a safe source of energy, right? the problem is it doesn't exist. every energy source has come kind of a drawback. and so i think right now i'm very worried about energy prices. let's hope we get a warm winter or we're going to see record prices. he'll that'll phil flynn, thank you -- neil: phil flynn, thank you very much. the dow is paring its losses to now just a little more than double digits there, also could be some optimism on, you know, a plan apparently that gop-ers are cooking up to work with democrats on a one-time offer on the debt ceiling. i don't want to get into the weeds here, but it looks like progress is being made on that front when that little item broke, we pared those losses all the more. we shall see. we'll have more after this. all their devices. or it could be the day there's a cyberthreat.

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families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing or food - because all they should worry about is helping their child live. i've never heard of any hospital not charging patients. that's the greatest part of st. jude. i am very grateful that people consider enough to sacrifice their life to donate. that's really amazing. ♪♪ muck. ♪ >> interesting development. >> there's some of the drill hole left heft. >> is there any explosive in it? >> well, damn. >> yeah, we got a serious problem. >> last round they put in, there's at least one hole that didn't -- >> well, get out of there. neil: all right. american gold, it's already

become a fox business hit. you know, i thought i was a hit. apparently, no, these guys are right now. rick and thad, among five brothers, right, where you've got 800 acres in montana. ten years ago you were able to purchase it outright. you've always suspected that there's gold there, you know, ask now you're digging and drilling for it, now you have got a hit tv show to chronicle it, did i get it right? >> that's right. we're very happy to be in this great city too, by the way, thank you for invite ising us. neil: thank you. you're a ratings juggernaut. so tell me a little bit how this all came about. four of you are engineers, right? so you knew there was something here. it's been thought of for generations, but what made you decide now we're going to go the extra mile? well, we acquired the property

about 12 years ago. we had, we had some inroads. we had other property, but we didn't have the whole enchilada there. the gold property's unmined before world war ii, and we were little kids -- neil: did they get a lot of gold? >> yeah. neil: you knew there was a treasure-trove. >> yeah, there were some rich veins this numerous companies that tried to get deeper in the mountain underneath the first gold mining which is closer to the surface. >> right. >> that's the big target. we're trying to get in on this, it's we call it oldie's gold that our grandpa was told a hundred years ago -- neil: but it's the hard to get at, right, rick? it's not the easiest thing in the world to get to, right? >> the ore starts out like this which has a lot of sulfite in

it, and the oxidized stage is this final thing where all the pockets where the sulfide crystals were. we think we can process the oxide. we know that ourselves we cannot process sulfide, but it stills has gold in it. neil: so those that you brought with you have gold in it. do you want to leave 'em here? >> i wish it was that easy. neil: how difficult it is to do that. i'm just wondering, this process, is it more of a headache and a cost issue than it's worth? >> it could be. we hope not. but it could. if. neil: so this tv thing on it is a fallback -- [laughter] if it comes up zero. >> well, it benefit thes us to too to work together as brothers. we're all retired -- neil: and all very tight. >> we've got a lot of property that we have known about and played on and been there and kind of our family legacy.

and is to memorialize our family history is huge for the next generation. and so we're happy about that because everybody goes different directions in life, and we came back. neil: yeah. this could be a great uniter. the community in montana, how many people live there? >> well, it's a canyon in the mountains out of twin bridges, montana, which is where we grew up and went to school. >> about 5-600 people, and it's a ranching community. neil: so they all know you, and you know them -- >> well, unfortunately -- [laughter] >> newer people and younger people, and that's great. but, yeah, the town basically is our town. neil: they must be liking the attention, or do they? that the town is getting? >> well, it's also a fly fishing mecca. neil: oh, that's true. >> there's some real blue ribbon trout streams which mainly outnumber miners right now. but i think contributing to the economy. you know, we've got a mine

contractor, and we rent equipment and buy fuel, and -- neil: there's a lot to it, isn't there? is. >> yeah. >> a lot, a lot. neil: sort of like when they would look for oil and shale and all of that stuff, and you realize it's laborious and spicy. >> well, i think -- price city. >> i think about fuel, our cars. travel is really a what freedom is in in united in the unite. i don't have to show an id across the border. and with the price of fuel going up, it's infringement on all of our freedom. and that's kind of bothersome. neil: and it's getting worse, isn't it? you know, gold has been, you know, spreading up maybe because of all of these concerns, so you could be on the cusp of something that could be hitting the sweet spot. >> i hope we time it like that, we have a product or have it recovered and processed as a salable product at that time when prices are up.

neil: now, it looks like everyone gets along and and all this, but it's got to be frustrating, a lot of hard physical work besides. kids, grandkids involved in this as well? everyone has a stake? >> yeah, they do. thankfully, we have had nothing but enthusiasm from the next generation. they all have their jobs -- neil: i bet they have dollar signs in their eyes too. >> probably more than us. [laughter] >> it's been a joy to work with them. is so that part has really been fun. but it takes time to develop and work all of this out. so we hope they're in for the long haul. neil: i imagine they would be. you all seem like great folk, and already rock stars here. when you came out, where's the preponderance rats city? >> >> rock stars. -- paparazzi. neil: that's how i operate. we call it editorial gold.

see what i did there? >> yes, i did. neil: you'll get all this stuff. [laughter] the stars of american gold: the ledge general of bear gulch, catch it tonight, 8 p.m. eastern time. and i'm telling you, it'll draw you in, and you'll be fascinated. i want to look for that gold too. stay with us, you're watching fox business. this isn't just freight. these aren't just shipments. they're promises. promises of all shapes and sizes. each with a time and a place they've been promised to be. a promise is everything to old dominion, because it means everything to you. that building you're trying to buy, - you should ten-x it. - ten-x it? ten-x is the world's largest online commercial real estate exchange. you see it. you want it. . .

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♪♪ when the only thought on your mind ♪♪ is “finally” ♪♪ this is financial security. and lincoln financial solutions will help you get there as you plan, protect and retire. this is lincoln financial. ♪. neil: all right. taking a look at corner of wall and broad with the dow down 97

points. oil well off the highs we were seeing earlier. a lot of factors in play. maybe progress made in washington on the debt ceiling thing, other initiatives. nowhere near the progress. wall street can change very rapidly as my friend charles payne says you never know. you never know. see how we do the next hour. charles. charles: neil, that is why we do it every single day. that is why we love it. thank you, my friend. neil: you got it, buddy. charles: i'm charles payne. this is "making money." we started out hunt huge pressure. i got to tell you i love the session from very beginning. paper hands are being shaken out. that is what i like the most. great stocks are getting better prices and getting oversold. but it is not as easy and simple as saying buy the dip. you have to have realistic parameters how to do this. also i have a cautionary tale staying out of