should i sell 10% of my stock, he asked twitter users, 58-42 said yes, sell it. the result is a downside move for tesla's stock it is off 3% as we speak w we started trading this morning at 9:30 it was down 6%. it has come back a bit. tesla is recovering just a bit. my time's up. neil it is yours. neil: i wonder if they told him no, don't sell, do you think he would not have sold? stuart: good question. no idea. you can't tell with that guy. neil: i don't know. i think he would have sold anyway. i just think he would have sold. anyway, what do i know? stuart, thank you very, very much. look where we are at lunchtime in the east coast of the united states. right now all the averages moving along just nicely. remember with three of them all gaining in record territory on friday. anything beyond that is another record. that is what we're seeing and this at a time right now buoyed

lifting of travel restrictions against 33 countries t spreads quite the gambit. it is a very, very good harbinger to come for travel and leisure stocks. not surprisingly, more people take advantage of everything this wonderful country has to offer the better for those represented in stocks but it is going to get crowded at airports, if you needed that reminder. let's go to grady trimble at chicago's o'hare international airport with how that is looking. grady? >> neil, delta ceo did warn that things could be a little bit sloppy at first because this is a new procedure. you might have to wait in long lines if you're coming from another country because of course you do have to prove your vaccinated and show a negative covid test. not only where the flight originates with the airline but in customs in the united states. nonetheless all major airlines are seeing a surge of international flights into the united states. delta says many of their flights

will be completely full. united says they're expecting 10,000 more international passengers to come into the u.s. today compared to last monday. across the airlines, travel booking app, hopper, searches for flights into the u.s. are up 38% since the reopening of international was announced. all of this comes as the airlines have been dealing with staffing issues and having to implement mass cancellations to deal with those issues. i had a chance to talk to the commerce secretary about what things will look like with the surge in international travel just as the busy holiday travel season is getting started. she says the airlines are prepared. >> yes. there will be winter storms. yes, there there will be disrup. yes, i'm sure there will be kinks to be worked out but by and large we feel prepared. we're coordinating in partnership with the airlines

and i suspect we'll be just fine. reporter: you can come into the u.s. by air and also by land today. the border at the u.s. and canada is reopening to vaccinated canadians. so is the border at mexico. and of course you have to be vaccinated as i mentioned but this is the first time for many people who live in the border towns to be able to cross over and visit people who they might know, family, friends, come into the united states for leisure purposes. commerce secretary gina raimondo says this is a shot in the arm for the u.s. economy as people get back here not just for leisure purposes but to ramp up international business again. neil: that makes a lot of sense. thank you very much for that, grady trimble. real quick quiz here, not to start so early with that, what are the most popular states international travelers are aiming to go to? i will tell you. florida, new york and california. not new jersey on the list. let me check that here as a

new jersey resident, i'm a little offend. it could be a oversight. mark murphy joins us, travel expert extraordinaire. i do know this much, it will get crowded not only in the skies but crowded at the airports. you're a veteran with this sort of thing. when flights suddenly stop, you have to rebook and it is a scramble, do you envision that now that the demand is going to pick up considerably? >> i think the biggest impact is going to be on the arrival side coming through immigration and customs. those will be massive lines as people start coming in. i think it will have much less of an impact on domestic travel. i think the thing hanging over the head with domestic travel and flight crews is still the vaccine mandates which have now been pushed off to january to avoid the crunch during the holidays. that will not stop walkouts and other things happening to disrupt travel. i would be on the lookout for that stuff but i don't think opening of flights from europe

and a total of 33 countries will have a dramatic impact on most domestic travelers in the u.s. neil: all the prominent carriers have had some travel nightmares of their own inflicted on travelers. i'm not saying it was all their fault here but we've seen enough of it some words of caution are probably in order. if you fear, for example, mark, that your flight might be canceled or that you might be stranded, just remind folks what they can do. >> well, number one, depending where you're traveling makes a lot of sense to buy travel insurance that will protect you in the case of trip interruption if your flight gets canceled for any reason. if your plans are interrupted are there airports nearby if you're flying american out of fort lauderdale, you can fly technically out of american in miami to get to your final desnation. you need to know that.

you need to calculate back of your head, must be there at a certain time, a cruise, take off couple days earlier. if everything goes off without a hitch, enjoy the stay. come down here, i'm in fort lauderdale, state a couple nights, enjoy the beach. jump on the cruise. that way you don't get stuck basically with a cruise fare not able to take the vacation if your plane is held up. that is if you book your own air separate with the cruise line, if you book through the cruise line, they will get you to the final, they will get you to the ship even if you are delayed and miss your initial embarkation. neil: all wise words as they always have, mark murphy, travel expert extraordinaire. rules for the travel weary let's say. let's go to matt che, national retail federation president and ceo. matt, thinking of you heading into this interview here, this environment with all the foreigners coming to the united

states, i would imagine that is the wind at retailers' back right now. how do you see this playing out? >> well, neil, it is very, very positive. as you said at the top of the segment it is a great thing for our country. this is the number one travel destination for people around the world. they love to come to the united states for lots of great reasons. one of those reasons of course is travel and entainment leisure but also retail therapy. there is great shopping here in the united states. 85% of those international visitors have told us historically one of the things they do while they're here is they go shopping. it is not only in those initial destination states you talked about, new york, florida, california. those are popular places. there are some great coastal cities but even inside of the country, whether they go to atlanta, dallas, chicago, lots of places around the country benefit from international travel and there is a very high correlation between international tourists and

retail sales. this is a wonderful time of the year to welcome international travelers here to the u.s. neil: whether they're coming in from abroad, already in this country, domestic buyers, i hear a lot of hand-wringing over inflation. it is very real. there is nothing short-lived about it or transitory yet it does not seem to be impacting retail sales to the moment and i'm wondering why that is? i understand the strong balance sheet position that many, many americans are under after the pandemic, that they really shored up their finances but there has got to be something tolls explain this resilience in the face of rising prices for almost everything. >> yeah. certainly inflation is an issue that is impacting i think every retailer in the country. i talked to dozens of ceos. many of them retail industry leaders across the country who told me in all segment of retail they're faces inflationary pressures on products and on wage growth. i think that is an open question

whether people believe it is really transitory or whether it will take a lot longer to work itself out than maybe some would like to believe. i think we have to still keep a very close eye on it. i think a couple reasons. certainly consumers are very, very healthy. we know wages are rising. we've seen lots of stories about inflationary pressures. retailers invested billions of dollars in increased wages, in additional benefits, in additional leave. in bonus pay. there is wage, labor inflationary pressures. as well as product inflation. you have seen to go stories about the ports, supply chain, back at the moment we see wages, labor inflation keeping up with price increases and not all retailers are passing along every price increase. they're doing their best to make things affordable and available for american consumers. neil: but there is this fear a lot of things that people wanted to have under their christmas

tree will not be available. what are the most vulnerable or let's say suspect items that might not make it, even if you're shopping for them right now? >> i think, neil, as we did last year we encouraged people to get out to shop safe, shop early. last year the real emphasis was on shop safe. this year of course we want people to be safe but this is a much healthier population thanks to the vaccine than it was 12 months ago. so shopping early is still very important thing to do. i would say most of the nation's large retailers and many of the mid-size, smaller retailers got ahead of this because they have known for 22 months that there were supply chain disruptions. there would be labor shortages, product shortages. there would be lots of products on shelf this is year. you may not get the first choice in every category but you will

find a second and third choice. we meet demand for product. consumers are open to buy. healthy, well-financed. they have good balance sheets. i would encourage everyone to get out there to find the hock hock -- hockey stick you're looking for whatever it might be. neil: if you're looking for your spouse, you have h you have a built-in excuse, thought it would be here, honey. supply chain. won't work. >> hockey stick. neil: matt che, national retail president and ceo. dow up, s&p in and out of record territory here. we're following that very closely. also following interest rates. you know the 10-year backed up a little bit but still under 1.50%. we're following that as well. don't get me starts on bitcoin, some others ethereum, they're in their own little crazy universe of their own but i also want to

update you on the world's richest man prepared to get a little pocket change going, $21 billion worth. don't cry for elon musk and his tesla holdings, even after all of this will be well over 200 billion in net worth. i knew you were probably a little concerned about that. what has got him selling right now? and why better than 60 million of his followers on twitter essentially gave him the green light to do this after this. ♪.

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that selloff here but my buddy gerri willis does, taking a close look at this. very good to see you in the flesh. reporter: very good to see you in the flesh. neil: what is going on here? how is he going to do this? what is going on? reporter: he hasn't said. i reached out have we seen anything? has it happened yet, has he sold the stock yes or no? not yet. that is what we're finding out. i guess it is imminent. you said the shares down this morning after ceo and founder elon musk would take the advice of his twitter followers sell 10% of his outstanding shares t all started saturday morning when musk put up a poll on his twitter feed asking his followers what he should do. 3.5 million people, unbelievable, voted. the margin 58-42 in favor of selling. the electric vehicle company said he would abide by whatever his followers said. i don't know if you believe that. maybe, maybe not.

he is outspoken of the plan to tax billionaires. he tweeted this. much is made lately of unrealized gains being means of tax avoidance. so i propose selling 10% of my tesla stock. i will abide by the results of the poll whichever way it goes. at the time he tweeted the stake was worth $21 billion. tesla shares have been on a roll, almost 75%. 68% what i saw this morning year-to-date. the stock has a small float. number of shares are limited. his stock is valued at 200 billion. he doesn't take a salary but gets paid in stock options. a lot of people say he is not making a political statement here. he is not commenting on the democrat tax plan. that he is just trying to raise cash to pay a tax bill. actually in the quarterly filings we found mention of this, if musk were to sell a part, all, some of his stake it would negatively affect the stock price.

neil: do we know the value of those options? they're done in waves, i understand that and he is the big cheese and they're kind of answerable to him but no matter how you slice he will make a lot of money off of this. reporter: he will make a lot of money off of this. he is already worth so much. he is a already a billionaire. he is a cash poor billionaire. think about that. neil: neil: cash poor. reporter: i wouldn't mind being that. neil: gerri willis, thank you very much. by the way, fascinating thing we'll get into later in the show, fair share, whether the wealthy should pay fair share. i raised that with the transportation secretary of the united states, pete buttigieg, finally put a number on what might be a fair share for the wealthy. you might want to stick around for that. now we jonathan hoenig who you could argue doesn't pay his fair share. he is very wealthy. taxes are like an afterthought

to him but, jonathan, this issue with tesla, elon musk, selling some of his incredible gains to gerri's point, it is not really walloping the stock at all. in fact it tamed the losses as the day ensued. what do you make of the stock market reaction to this? >> i'm surprised it has come back as much as it has. as gerri pointed out neal, it sold off quite a bit at the start. this is long term, even if tesla comes pack today, this is long term very worrisome impact of the market, not because elon is selling stock but the reason he is talking about. he selling stock to pay taxes. there is a lot of great reasons to for selling stock, mostly investment but not pay taxes. the reason elon is a billionaire is because of the investments he made. he started a company, x.com. sold it to paypal.

invested $70 million that became tesla. rich productive people don't sit around in a room full of gold to pay taxes. in the sense that we are not paying our fair share, the rich has to get on board. that would be detrimental to tesla. neil: i don't know if we make a political point. i don't know if that is the reason. a fortune built into tesla's stock. he has seen it run up from worth a few billion dollars but it is worth over $200 billion to him. when you have all the eggs in one basket you try to empty some of the basket. i'm wondering if he is cognizant not overdoing it. he likes being the world's richest man. he is the richest by far. jeff bezos is closest to him with amazon i wonder if that factors into what he sells? >> there is a plot of pressure to act like a good billionaire, to donate.

we heard that all over and over again. jeff bezos has donated. elon musk has not donated. don't think about the money he has given away, think about the money he created. yes he is a billionaire, think of how many multimultimillionaires he created. the old adage is true, tax wealth you get less of it. we don't need to have elon pay the fair share but make new companies. ray kroc got involved with mcdonald's his 50s and 60s. eel hon is a young man. don't want to give it to government. this isn't political, would be better off making bad business citieses to tesla then sending billions of dollars to government. we know they will burn it. with tesla, there is chance of new innovation and new wealth being created. neil: think about it, with one billion dollars he could set that aside in an interest bearing savings account. for one billion dollars, still could make $50 million a year.

that is the opportunity to look at possibilities. throwing it out there for elon. so good seeing you my friend. jonathan hoenig. hedge fun manager extraordinaire. we're getting read on new jersey, closer than close race. apparently governor murphy had it with his republican opponent stalling on conceding the election, that it is widened out considerably enough for phil murphy, at least his people to say give up already. here is the thing though, right now, his opponent isn't giving up already. it is getting nasty. speaking of new jersey, the former governor there, chris christie, i'm telling you, we told you on this show, he is running for president. definitely running for president and something he said over the weekend confirmed it for me. removed all doubt. if i'm wrong, i'm going to rip up, can you rip up kirsten's digital -- you can throw it out i guess. sure. we'll explain after this.

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visit findyourindependentadvisor.com neil: last week i think the whole story was garbage. now the biden administration seems to be saying the notion of paying families who were separated at the border is not garbage. in fact they are seriously considering that the only issue is is it 450 grand or not? it is going to be something. that has a lot of people wondering why it should be anything. edward lawrence following this back and forth, back and forthright now from the white house. edward. reporter: neil, one person's garbage a is another, president biden appears to be backtracking a little bit. now saying that families crossing the southern border illegally who were separated from their children deserve some sort of money. the administration, the new argument from this administration is to now blame former president donald trump. >> if in fact because of the

outrageous behavior of the last administration, you coming across the border, whether it was legal or illegal, and you lost your child, you lost your child, it's gone, you deserve some kind of compensation no matter what the circumstance. what that will be i have no idea. reporter: so reporting by "the wall street journal" shows that the payments could be as high as $450,000 per person, separated under migration or immigration policies before president biden, now, a family of three who illegally crossed the border could get, if you do the math, could get $1.3 million as a cash payment. republicans can't believe the reversal from the president. over the weekende called the reports garbage, or that the administration is considering making these payments in the first place. >> for everyone who has been working they're getting ready to raise your taxes and pay $450,000 to people who illegally crossed our border and entered our country. such a deal for the taxpayer but

that is what is coming. they keep doing their crazy radical agenda. it is why joe biden is at 38% approval rating. everything they have touched has been a mess. went from a secure border to chaos. reporter: now the aclu sued on behalf of these families. they found 5500 families are suing on behalf of. this would be a legal settlement to that lawsuit. back to you. neil: edward, edward lawrence at the white house on all of that. you know some of you, some of you, mocked me, mocked me when i said that it looked like chris christie was running for president. that everyone sort of clears the field for donald trump until they get a signal from him that he is not running. but i kept telling this guy is going to run whether donald trump is or not and you're still mocking me. here, my friends is the proof that i'm right. take a look. >> so for all people who say the supporters of president trump the line begins behind me.

i started that but let me tell you something else, we can no longer talk about the past and the past elections. no matter, no matter where you stand on that issue. no matter where you stand, it is over. and every minute that we spend talking about 2020 while we're wasting time doing that -- neil: what did you think of that? that is hitting the third rail of republican politics, taking on donald trump and the notion that he will run, won't run, relitigating the 2020 election, that is the stuff of a candidate who certainly seems to be risking, taking on the former president, should he decide to run again for the white house and by the way, there are a lot of people now in my camp including the former new jersey governor, not chris christie but tom kaine who at least right now sees chris christie mounting a

presidential bid. take a look i do notice, chris christie, sir, at the vegas event, a republican event, he seems to be running for president whether donald trump runs or not what do you think? >> yes, i think that's correct. my suspicion is that he is considering it very, very seriously. he is a, would be strong candidate if he did. he is very articulate, he is widely known in the party. so i think he would be a very serious candidate. neil: with us right now "the hill" he had door in chief. i think he is off and running now. i think he tested the waters. he wasn't booed for saying what he said. he got polite applause, not robust applause, that is where he is carving out his niche, whether donald trump runs, i'm running too, what do you think? >> i think you're right, neil. he is doing all the things

presidential candidates do in run of up to the announcements, unlike nikki haley says i won't run if trump runs, christy is considering the opposite. he has an issue with the base. when taking on trump, i think his advice is good advice, the same advice mitch mcconnell is saying, politics is about the future not the past, how is he go towing to get the votes in a republican primary? that is a big question and i think that is something he has to work on. neil: i always wondered too what it would take for others to do what he appears to be doing, bob. i always remember eugene mccarthy, 1968 taking on lyndon johnson for the democratic nomination. he didn't win the new hampshire primary but he really scared johnson enough to take a strong second place and you know, force the president out of the race. now, i'm not saying then is now

but do you think, you know, now as then you will see others, you know, those in the water, thinking, all right the president, in this case the former president looks vulnerable? maybe i should enter? >> i think the virginia election changed the whole dynamic because youngkin, glenn youngkin who won that race, yes, he didn't offend trump but he also kept him at a distance. did not ask him to campaign in virginia. that has republicans thinking maybe we've turned the page on the former president. i still wouldn't bet against the former president in a primary but youngkin showed that you can keep trump at a distance and still win. that is why trump put out four statements claiming victory for it. it was a bit defensive on his behalf. i think more republicans are going to get into the race if trump gets. i don't think a lot of them, that mike pence or pompeo gets

in but it is one to watch. neil: if you're donald trump and you see chris christie making these moves, you're obviously going to try to bury the guy, aren't you? >> well, as you know, neil, they have had a hot and cold relationship. neil: absolutely. >> trump has jabbed at christie on a number of things. got rid of him as head of the transition when he won presidency in 2016. trump is very good, you know, about burying political rivals. he certainly will go after anyone including christie. neil: we'll watch it closely. bob cusack, great seeing you my friend, following all those developments. dow well into record territory, nasdaq into record territory but nothing is performing like bitcoin today. it is at and an all-time high rt now. in fact the entire cryptocurrency market cap has just passed $3 trillion in

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an asset more relevant than ever before. gold. your strategic advantage. ♪. neil: all right. day for the cryptocurrency market, including the whole bunch. anything, everything attached to it, better than $3 trillion in market value. seen it in ethereum and zenith bitcoin, multiyear highs as we speak. that is part of the story. susan li here with the rest of the story. reporter: can't wait to hear your views on cryptocurrency, $3 trillion? that is third of what gold is worth? $10 trillion worth of gold on the entire planet. looking at the market cap, bitcoin itself is a $1.2 trillion asset. let me bring up the chart for you, comparing 1.2 trillion to the largest companies on the planet. microsoft 2 1/2, apple, 2.3. bitcoin if it was an actual

stock and a company it would be the fifth largest company on the planet t would be tied with tesla which is worth 1.2 trillion as well. bigger than facebook which i found surprising. facebook has dipped below the trillion dollar mark. neil: a lot is recent? reporter: shiba inu is a joke coin on a joke coin. that is driving the bids. solana and ethereum are used in nft trades. nft trades were $10 billion in the third quarter. that is up 1000 percent from the last year. solana is at a record high, ethereum is at a record high as well. neil: anything having to do with this is helping. what is mered to me, much of the cryptocurrency surge has occurred right along with the stock surge. because of all the money out there. there has been so much money

printing. the money supply increased 30 to 40% this year. it has to go somewhere to chase returns. i would say cryptocurrency rallies have helped the stocks as well. look at coinbase. i will throw out coinbase and the riots, the grayscale trust. literally it has just gone vertical in the last few months and also i would say the bitcoin etf, futures etf helped shift momentum as well. will we get a spot price at some point? some say maybe next few months. with we could get a ethey are yum spot price. neil: nft, non-fungible token what is it exactly? think. reporter: think of it as a art. it is all about ownership. owner of a nft, verifiable ownership. people use this in faming, likes games, for instance the quid

game token. have you heard of infiniti, have you heard of that? is 4 billion-dollar company. the plates are earned. neil: it is risky but you like isn't. >> i would say buyer beware out there. be careful what you're buying into. not all cryptocurrencies are made the same. bitcoin is more of a store of value. you could argue there are layers, technology behind the ethereum blockchain and solana as well. neil: seems like you're hedging your bets? you don't want to lead the viewers astray but you still saying there is something there? reporter: right. i'm saying not all cryptocurrencies do the same thing and they're not all valued the same. neil: sounds like you're talking down to me like i'm your grandfather, pops, this is the future. >> i think there is generational divide on viewers views and investor views. when i speak to a lot of cryptocurrency insiders last few weeks, there is ppomo, panic of

fear of missing out as opposed to fomo. neil: could talk to the tesla runup or amazon runup. >> institutional buyers are hesitant to get into them. they call buyer beware, fake gold. however i would say because it has gone so mainstream, so much value, money plowed into the asset class, pomo, panic on missing out might shake up institutional buying there is not so much supply. people are not trading out of bitcoin position. supply is down. demand goes up from institutions. you can imagine where prices might go. neil: what do you think? >> which is up. demand is high, supply is low. neil: very hedging. reporter: i explained it very well. neil: you said if you're wrong i will seize on this interview and if you're right i won't. reporter: telling you what other people, experts are telling me. this is not my opinion here. neil: fine, fine. reporter: this is what the market trends are pointing to. neil: got it, cronkite.

she is the best. she is smart. susan li is on that. here is another guy who knows his marbles. i would be remiss, jonathan, if i didn't get your take on the whole fixation, as susan pointed out. it is revealing. used to be bitcoin or the stock market. bitcoin or the stock market. now the stock market is running up. so are bitcoin, so are cryptocurrencies. what does that tell you of late? >> well, two words, neil, it is risk on. susan hit the nail on the head. we've seen risk on in almost every asset class. fear of missing out, panic about missing out, i look at crypto market, sense of buying, aot, any old thing. we saw it i believe back in the late 1990s, anything dot-com related got a bid. everything was getting multibillion-dollar market caps then. i'm not dissing on crypto as a technology but i worry with any

investor they see the panic, hesitation to get in at any price. that is what worries me anyone getting too heavily into crypto, especially now. neil: susan, said go in eyes wide open. you might lose money you know you're risking. you're not investing the kids education money, depending how you feel for your kids, i understand that there is an element of you know, hazard here. but as long as you're eyes wide open going into that what do you say? >> neil what also impacts people what they invest in or how they invest. currently dot-com stocks or beanie-babies more than anything else, they often put more than they should into any one particular investment. they also buy on the way down. they like it at 50, 40, 30. that is ultimately what kills people. i'm not eight haar on crypto, but if they follow the basic rules don't double down. that is always where people slit their throats. as one part of a diversified

portfolio i think it makes great sense especially now. neil: jonathan hoenig, thank you very much for that. let's take a look what is going on with these market as johnny was pointing out here. stocks are running up. you see gold running up. bitcoin and related cryptocurrencies running up. that has rarely been the case in tandem and that's why it bears watching because this is not following the normal pattern. in fact lately this is becoming the pattern where they all go in the same direction. stay with us. ♪.

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♪. neil: they're still trying to get to the bottom of that houston astroworld tragedy that claimed eight lives, dozens injured and still no clue how authorities could have been caught so off-guard with the swelling of the crowds. let's get the latest from garrett tenney in houston, texas, with more. garrett. reporter: neil, this is now a criminal investigation, meaning criminal charges could be filed but travis scott and the festival organizers are facing a growing number of civil lawsuits from folks who were injured during the chaos at his show. those lawsuits argue that scott and the events promoters failed in their responsibility to make the event safe and secure for

the 50,000 fans who were in attendance. eight people were killed, all of them under the age of 30. there has been a lot of frustration from folks we spoke to last few days, desperately trying to get the attention of scott or anyone trying to get help. this video shows a woman climbing up ladder, yelling at a cameraman, that people are dying >> send someone fast. reporter: travis did briefly stop the show a few times when he saw people who needed help, but a lot of folks who were there say more needed to be done. >> i knew almost, maybe 15 minutes into the time that this was completely different than the past two astroworld festivals. i was struggling to breathe. i told my boyfriend, once i passed out he lifted me out of the crowd. crowd surfed my unconscious body

four feet to the right where security guards pulled me over. i can't view travis scott. he knew what was going on. paused for a moment. he continued. i can't view him the same after this. reporter: houston's police chief was worried enough about potential crowd control problems according to "the new york times" he visited travis scott in his trailer earlier that day to share his concerns. despite, even after police and fire officials declared a mass casualty event nobody stopped the show. it went on for more than 30 minutes were being crushed and fighting for their lives out in the crowd. this weekend houston's police chief defended that police chief saying the shutting the showdown all at once could have sparked a riot that could have created more problems though he didn't provide any details why he believed that was would be the likely result. we're told all of this though will be part of an expansive investigation into this tragedy.

neil? neil: thank you for that, garrett tenney. lawsuits are already being filed fast and furiously right now. brian claypool, the civil rights attorney where all this legally is going. brian, a lot of the attention seems to be back on the performers including travis scott. what do you look for? i mean this woman who was there said he did not disrupt anything, in fact he continued but we don't know for sure whether he knew the full extent of what was happening but, what do you make of the early reads we're getting of that night? >> yeah, neil. great to be back with you. by the way i actually was in the las vegas shooting so i was at the shooting where people got killed. i can actually reading about this i felt the same feeling that a lot of these victims felt. neil: but in that case the performers stopped. it was very obvious. you heard shots going on but almost immediately stopped. >> yeah. neil: but the damage was done,

and ongoing but what is the difference here if any? >> i think you got to start at the top of the food chain. i think travis scott is at the lowest part of that food chain. i don't think he is the target here. you have to focus on starting who owned the property. in the vegas case we sued mgm because they owned the venue. who owned the property? they have a duty to people that attend the concert. you've got the promoters, organizers, live nation, ticketmaster, but i think the main culprit, neil at this point in time is security. because live nation hired a security company to come up with a plan to safeguard these individuals. in fact there was a 56-page document prepared. what we have to do is analyze the 56-page report and compare that to prior concerts because the game changing fact in this litigation is the prior

knowledge of trouble and danger at previous concerts involving travis scott. so what changed, for example, from the 2019 concert to the 2021 concert that would have safe guarded these individuals. neil: too soon to tell to your point. brian, thank you very much. we'll follow closely brian claypool. eight known dead. dozens injured. some quite seriously. we'll keep you on top of it with more after this. we got this. we got this. life is for living. we got this. let's partner for all of it. edward jones you're a one-man stitchwork master. but your staffing plan needs to go up a size. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

♪♪ if. >> also want to find out how important to recognize the economists who tell us this build back better vision will help with inflation, was we are worried about that pressure on prices. so many people want to work but they cant because they can't afford childcare. neil: you mentioned economists, obviously, they're not on the same page. some argue this is going to be quite inflationary. all right. pete buttigieg does not think that will be the case. by the way, we're monitoring him right now because he is due to ooh speak at the white house on where things stand with the whole supply chain issue and everything else, he says having nothing to do with spending measures, either the infrastructure-only one that was assed by the houseal -- passed by the house on friday, and the big one they're cooking up right

now that could be more than $2 trillion. again, he does not think either of those are inflationary in and of themselves. hillary vaughn following these fast moving developments on capitol hill. >> hi, neil, the white house is, obviously, taking a victory lap for getting one part of president biden's agenda through a congress this gridlock, that bipartisan infrastructure deal. but members of the squad like alexandria ocasio-cortez who didn't vote for it say the bill got republican votes because it has, quote, a lot of bad sufficient in it. and so the president's messaging about it is misleading voters saying this, quote: we can and should message this, that's the infrastructure bill, as a step, but messaging it as a solution alone is going to get us into trouble. wild back better, that's the social spending package if, contains the majority of the president's agenda. we must keep going and insure those promises are delivered. but republicans are worried about that agenda, the social spending package, with inflation

rising faster than wages are rising, with no cbo score, no way to tell if it's fully pay for. >> let's assume they do pay for it. then that's taking hundred away from all the rest of -- money away from all the rest of us. and what they've done already is produced rampant if inflation. i mean, i want to ask for a hoe of hands of how many of you have gone to the grocery store and noticed what's going on. the price of everything or is going through the roof. the american people basically said last tuesday the, stop it. enough is enough. >> reporter: the head of the national economic council said today he's confident the cbo score will show that the social spending package is paid for, and some house democrats think these inflation concerns are way overblown. >> the build back better act will increase spending by .6% of gdp over the next ten years. it is the insane for anybody to believe that .if 6% of sending is going to do anything to

increase inflation. >> reporter: this paid-for, neil, it's going to be a hard sell to the public. a new poll out from "usa today" finds that only 1 in 4 americans actually think that build back better bill will actually benefit them or their families. neil? neil: all right, hillary, thank you very much. bottom line is as we wait to hear from the transportation secretary that these inflationary pressures, safe to say, are not fleeting or transitory to, short-lived, whatever you want to say. hay go on and on and on, andingg this something the administration is considering right now, shutdown of another popular pipeline, could add to that. ashley webster has more on that side of the story. >> reporter: yeah. hey, neil. the pipelining question, 5 line, is part of a network that stretches across michigan carrying about 540,000 barrels per day, more than half a million. opponents, including governor gretchen whitmer, call the pipeline an environmental risk to the great lakes.

in fact, she tried to shut it down, and that issue is currently in court. and now we have a report by politico claiming that the biden administration is considering shutting the pipeline down even though the oil and gas industry says that will only drive energy prices higher, especially propane that many families rely on for heat in the winter up in that part of the country. energy secretary and former michigan governor jennifer granholm was on bloomberg ask laughed when questioned about boosting america's domestic oil production. take a listen. >> the granholm plan to increase oil production in america. [laughter] >> that is hilarious. would that i had the magic wand on this. >> reporter: well, there are many who are not laughing. and, by the way, the biden administration has signed a series of executive the orders including pausing new federal oil leases, eliminating subsidies for the toss sill fuel

industry and revoking permits for the keystone xl pipeline. but this a later appearance on ms, this bc, the energy secretary said there's more than 7,000 land leases to do drilling that they are not doing. listen. >> we need to make sure that we are telling the truth about where the supply needs to come from. there is nothing that the biden administration is doing that is preventing oil and gas companies in the united states from doing additional extraction. >> reporter: well, republican lawmakers are outraged with one group sending a letter to the administration saying shutting down this pipeline will only add to rapidly rising energy prices, steep home heating bills and global supply shortages as well as, of course, skyrocketing gas prices. ask other republicans say, look, biden's policies have undone the america first energy agenda that guaranteed domestic supply, and now they say the country is genre lying on foreign -- again

relying on foreign oil. neil. neil: you know what's weird about it, ashley, when you're asked that question that the energy secretary was, you would think that she would have some control over these developments. >> reporter: well, you'd think. apparently not. apparently it's just pretty funny. neil: yeah. you are, but, i mean -- [laughter] you didn't mean to be funny to get a point across. i don't get it, but great reporting as always -- >> reporter: i say funny looking. neil: who you saying funny looking? ashley webster, thank you very much. what to make on this right now? another pipeline on the verge of being shut down, begging opec companies to produce more oil when we have plenty of it here. it is what we call an avoidable conundrum. let's get brian brenberg and rich rochelle in mitch roschelle

on this. this seems wholly at least -- partly, maybe, in the control of an administration that could open up the spigot to all energy sources, wind, solar and all that, but not at the expense of what got us in the, you know, energy driver's seat. >> didn't the president do this by executive order? isn't energy secretary part of the executive branch, right? it seems pretty simple to me. we were energy independent, we're now dependent upon foreign countries, some of which aren't our friends for oil. and natural gas, which is the thing that we produce, is the thing that's most sorely needed during the heating season. i just got back from michigan. it was cold there, and when you talk to ordinary folks in michigan, they don't want to pay $2 more for natural gas. neil: professor, we're going to watch closely this briefing that the secretary's going to have, pete buttigieg, one of the things he's said right now is by

exploring all the possibilities of this infrastructure-only plan that was passed on friday, we're going to be the addressing these energy needs, and then we're going to see things get under control, go down in price. don't worry, calm down. what do you think? >> when's that going to happen, 10 years from now? to years from now? -- 20 years from now? if you can figure out what's in it, number one. number two, i don't see any of this alleviating my concerns. i'm going to be spending christmas in minnesota. i know it's going to be darn cold. i look at the horizon, and i say if this administration had any concrete plans today anything about the prices we're paying? absolutely not. neil: i don't think, gentlemen, it would be a huge pivot, maybe a slightly embarrassing one, to say, you know, getting out of the whole traditional fossil fuels thing was a bit of a mistake, the timing was a bit of a mistake. it's still our eventual goal, to find these cleaner sources of

energy, but we're not giving up on that, what brought us the low prices to begin with. but you can fairly, and i'm not playing politics here, mark the energy runup almost to the day keystone was shut down. and had they not done that, and even with emphasizing these other alternatives, i don't think we would have seen that, the runup that we've seen. >> well, the energy secretary, when she got done laughing, said it's a global commodity. we were a producer, and when our supply was no longer in the world supply, that impacted prices. it's print simple supply and demand. i think since inflation is starting to run away, we could see 6%, 7% inflation, and since fuel costs are inflationary, they're part of everything we do, okay? part of delivering food to stores is energy prices, why not make us energy independent again, why not open up the spigot literally so we can begin to control one thing that's part of inflation that's potentially controllable, which is lowering

energy prices. neil: you know, it's interesting too, and we will dip into the secretary in just a second, but i wanted, professor, to get your view on his view that the worst of the inflationary problem is going to be behind us. and he bases that on the notion that all of this spending far from contributing to inflation will actually get it under control. [laughter] and now he quotes -- and others in the administration, seven nobel economists, who say that's the case. and i always say, wow, it's not a great week to get the nobel prize. [laughter] you get the point. how can it not be inflationary? >> i'll take just a little bit of logic over a nobel laureate think day actually. he, in one breath he can say the problem's going to go away, in the next brent say because we're going to spend a whole lot of money. people don't buy that. and the problem when people don't buy it is inflation is based in part on people's expectations.

if everyone thinks you don't have a clue how to solve this, in fact, you're going to make it worse, that's when people say, well, i need higher wages. i'm concerned about higher prices, i'm going to start hoarding now. this becomes a self-full tilling prophesy when the secretary of transportation or the secretary of energy is speaking nonsense. and right now you're talking about spending your way out of inflation? i'm sorry, with all due respect to know well laureates, that's nonsense. neil: you know what's interesting about the inflation argument and even the supply chain, the administration argues i can partly see this because we went from an economy in park during the pandemic to one that was picking up steam, so the year-over-year comparison is going to produce this supply/demand situation that's gotten us here. i get that to a degree. but the administration to a man and woman has been saying this is a good reflection on us and the appetite and the balance sheet, you know, wholeness of

the american consumer that he or she are in the position they're in to weather this, and happily so. strong retail sales, optimism that abounds in these consumer surveys. so they're selling it as a positive. what do you think? >> they sell it as a positive then blame the consumer for consuming too much, and that's why we have the supply chain problem. it doesn't -- that just doesn't make sense. the fact of the matter is consumers will stop consuming when the price is too high. it's the elasticity -- >> don't hold that laureate. neil: normally inflation stops when people stop paying the high prices. >> correct. neil: what is the trigger for that because i don't see it yet or people aren't responding. they might be shifting their spending priorities, but what do you think? >> well, we've been throwing a lot of cash at consumers, they're still spending through that cash. apparently, we're going to send a lot more their way. we did a trillion for infrastructure, another couple

trillion for whatever's in that plan, we don't really know. i don't see the spending stop, and the fed's talking about easing back on its bond purchases and maybe raising interest rates? i'll believe that when i see it because we've got an awful lot of debt to monetize. i can bet the biden administration won't be happy when the ted if starts jacking up -- fed starts jacking up interest rates. paul volcker proved it -- neil: remember he would raise rates one full point at a time? >> right now we've got zero proof. neil: i know someone who's not getting a nobel prize. [laughter] let's go to the white house, gentlemen. we're going to hear from -- he's already speaking -- pete buttigieg, the secretary of transportation here and exactly what the administration plans tad the with the supply chain disruption and a problem he has anticipated isn't going to go on forever, so everyone has to calm bound. pete buttigieg. >> -- talks about this is a blue collar blueprint for american competitiveness, and it's a generational investment in every

sense of the word, something that means a lot more to me now as a new father, because this is how we do right by the next generation before it's too late. so thanks again, and we'll take some questions. >> reporter: secretary buttigieg, thanks for being with us. congratulations on the birth of your children. a question about the bill. the bill gives your department an unprecedentedded a amount of discretionary funds. can you spell out how you plan to prioritize that money and just give us a sense of what projects you see or expect to see getting money and getting started first? >> yeah. so our department has been gearing up hoping that this bill would pass, and now that it has, we've taken it to the next level. part of it is handling increased funding for programs we already have like discretionary programs such as raise formerly known as tiger and intra. you're going to see within the framework, of course, is an emphasis on projects that taken

together give us extra value in the priorities of this administration. economic strength, safety, alignment, equity, preparing for the future. and we've seen a lot of projects that overlapp in that sense. again, if you look to what we funded with the last round of intra, that'll give you a sense, and you'll see when we announce the raise projects for this year. so much more to work with. then there's programs, safe streets for all. we've never had an initiative like that. reconnecting communities, which we've been talking about all year with, responding to where sometimes it was federal dollars that divided a community often along racial lines. i think the intent of those programs is clear, but the mechanics of those we've got to work very hard to make sure we get them right, that the criteria are transparent, that it is easy to understand how to apply whether you are a big city with full-time staff here in washington, d.c. or a small, rural community trying to-and-a-half gate that federal process. and, of course -- navigate that federal process, and we're talking about a lot of --

>> sorry, just a quick follow-up. do you have something in place to prevent management of that money and fraud? >> absolutely. that's something that was also happening at the administration level. and the president made this very clear to us in the cabinet when the rescue plan dollars came through. we know that we're going to be held to a very high standard by the president as well as the public. so we have an executive the council with the deputy secretary and undersecretary as well as myself paying close attention to how we can make sure we have all of the right controls, the right rigor to make sure these dollars are spent well. >> secretary -- [inaudible] could you give us the breakdown of the implementation of -- [inaudible] with the infrastructure package that's now passed and also can you give us the construct of how you will deconstruct the racism built into roadways -- [inaudible] earlier when you broke that information. can you talk to us about how that could be -- the.

[inaudible] >> for sure, yeah. so at least 40 of the clean investments in this will go to benefit the communities overburdened and underserved. part one of that is defining those investments that are eligible, and that's a lot of it. we're working to map out program by program, mode by mode what would qualify. if we're buying clean buses, right, how do we make sure where the buses go, but also looking at the business opportunity. the jobs that are going to be created, the businesses that will have a chance to compete for the business opportunities it creates. that, too, i think is an important mr. element of bity h. and -- of equity here. we know that we've got to build our own internal kind of ways of aligning and defining that inside the administration. as to where we target those dollars, you know, i'm still surprised that some people were surprised when i pointed to the fact that if a highway was built

for the purpose of dividing a white and a black neighborhood or if an underpass was constructed such that a bus carrying mostly black and earth rican kids to a beach, or would have been, in new york was designed to pass by, that obviously reflects racism that went into those design choices. i don't think we have anything to lose by confronting that simple reality, and i think we have everything to gain by acknowledging it and then dealing with it, which is why the reconnecting communities, that billion dollars, is something we want to get the work right away putting to work. >> but that's such a heavy lift. i mean, you have to reconstruct communities that this happened to the. as you said, some of these beltways and interstates and roadways were built before the civil rights act, before or the voting rights act. but how do you go about redefining and replanning these roadways in communities that are already settled in -- >> yeah. >> since then?

>> what's interesting is it's going to vary by community, and we have to listen to the community. sometimes it really is the case that an overpass is so harmful that it's got to come down, and it needs to be put underground. other times it's adding or subtracting. syracuse, for example, look at i-81, we saw the local vision for how they want to get past those acquisitions, and those local ideas are going to be taken very seriously as we try to meet the spirit of this law. >> thank you, secretary buttigieg. you just said this bill and the passage of it could not come at a more if urgent time. [inaudible] >> i'll be there with bells on. >> he has not signed the bill yet, right in. >> right. >> and the campaign to sell this bill, can you tell us what it's going to look like? it will take time for some these projects to get completed, and the white house is one year out from the midterms which, of

course, they have tied this will to. >> i expect that will be led by the president traveling to show where the lead and the action is. but i'm certainly eager to be part of that effort. i mean, look, a lot of this sells itself because communities never needed to be persuaded that their bridge needed to be fixed or that their airport needed an upgrade or their ports needed investment. they've been trying to get washington to catch up to them. but i do think it's important turn us to go out there -- for us to go out there especially in communities where a member of congress or the senate played an important role. and as you know, members from both sides of the aisle played important roles in delivering this bipartisan win, and i can't wait to celebrate the the good news. >> thank you. thank you, mr. secretary. as you pointed out, this was a wisconsin partisan bill. -- bipart san bill. was there the any discussion of the president not letting democrats oppose some of the republicans who were running or giving them a pass in the next election? >> not that i've been part of.

what i'll say is that, you know, we're really proud of the bipartisan character of this bill. and, you know, the conversations that we had, it wasn't transactional like that. it didn't have to be because these investments were already so good for the communities that these members represented. and, you know, there are times when you ask somebody to take a tough vote. to me, these provisions were rightly so popular that the only thing that was tough was for some republicans to stand up to those who wants them to choose party over what was right for their community. >> so there was no discussion from your side about the partisanship of it. >> i don't ever remember talking about, when i was talking to any member of either chamber of either party talking about campaigns or elections in that way. what we talked about is how it would be good -- now, of course, i believe strongly good policy is good politics, and i think it's going to reflect well on anybody who voted to deliver these big wins and these jobs

for their communities. but i think that's just it is such good legislation. >> i wanted to ask the number -- [inaudible] >> yeah. >> -- in the bill. how will that help the supply chain issues that the u.s. is face thing right now? i know that's something you've said often is it can help. >> yeah. let me offer a couple of examples. one is we need to make sure our ports are as efficient as possible, and there are cases where moreororec tolhn mesomesilsiecolec theeete-te set st' io do d whh he dfe drent dlant plaalkke e oher oer veu'otvevehe theortort ielftsels kind okindike ad,orhe t opers tndcks, a aaernana therentting mpin sinom cniom com t tfficiefflyieovly ai eeod tddxcngxcndndhareharehada.. dinelit t w t wrtupport yswaoysot. that. t someso oso it'ssull.ul that nototoouchucoard theips, b.

th at whyas i pointingin se rvseg savganh wheree an inland port so you can rush those containers out and then sort them out. it'll be more efficient and more speedy. let me point to one third thing. the idea of a healthy ports initiative. there are a lot of emissions around ports from the ships themselves, from the trucks, from the equipment, and right now one thing that is tough is the neighborhoods that are close to them feel that impact including increased asthma rates and what are, by the way, disproportionately black and latino neighborhoods. the healthy ports helps electrify them, and to me, that goes hand this hand with those efficiency gains that we're trying to drive. >> you also mentioned truckers. have you thought about at all relaxing motor carrier regulations further to allow people 18 to 20 to participate to be truck drivers? >> so i believe there is a proif vision in this legislation -- yeah, exactly. we've got to be very careful

about safety. so the way the provision works is it's a mentorship type, apprenticeship type of initiative that tries to manage the potential for there to be a safety trade-off. we want as many people to be the qualified drivers as possible, but never at the expense of safety. we'll always look at other steps we can take. but let me mention, we've got to just make truck driving a better job. truck drivers, there's a reason the turnover is so high. and the way they're compensated, they're often not compensated for their time which means that their time is wasted freely sometimes while they're waiting for for a load at a port, tradition. truckers do not have the option to work there home, zoom. they are the absolute backbone of a big part of our supply chain. we need to respect and, in hi view, compensate them better than we have. >> thank you, secretary. [inaudible] americans will start seeing the effect of the infrastructure bill is 2-3 months, is that your

assessment? and do and you provide a more detailed timeline? >> i would break it into the existing programs that we're going to plus-up and the new one we're going to have to stand up. with something like intra, raise, i think that sees more than a twofold increase in the authorized funding. so here you have -- and, by the way, they're not waiting on us in washington to invent these construction projects, right? the communities are applying, and we're able to fund that many more. i'm going through the applications for this year's raise program now, we will in very short order be work on next year's. but again, some things we need to stand the up all new programs. reconnecting communities, safe streets for all, healthy ports, so that will take a little bit longer. remember, this isn't 2009. this is an era we're making sure we hit every shovel-ready program for a short-term boost to the economy. it's short term but it's long term. [inaudible conversations]

>> just to follow up on that, we were down in mississippi talking to farm possessor who have had bridges closed down in their area for two or three years, so when exactly can americans expect to see a difference in their lives? will it be 2-3 months or sometime sooner? >> well, that's the beginning. the short answer is as fast as many of these agencies and work forces can absorb those dollars when the formula increases or when a new grant is available. so some things soon but, again, this is many, many years ahead starting now. [inaudible conversations] >> quick follow up on when you're reviewing the applications, do you have adequate staff to review all the applications -- [inaudible] >> great question. yes, but we're going to have to grow as well, and that's one of the things we've been working on. how to make sure we're staffed up and organized properly. we have $660 billion over that stretch of year that is we need to manage responsibly. of course, there's an add-in

dimension -- admin dimension to that. >> and in terms of the highways, is there something that you can do to encourage, to make sure that that money isn't just used to widen roads encouraging more people to drive? that's been a cash of some of -- concern of some of the progressives. >> this is not just about adding, this is about being smarter. you know, the best way to allow people to move in ways that are better for congestion and climate is to give them alternatives. so i know our transit funding doesn't sound like a highway policy, but part of what takes the pressure off highways is this unprecedented, historic funding for transit. having said that, we're certainly when there's think discretion involved, we're going to think about what's really going to help solve the problem. sometimes you add lanes to a road, you just get that many more cars, and you're no better off in term of congestion or pollution. we're also interest in some of the performance measures that are being contempt complainted

as part of the second round. but we definitely have the tools to make a positive different on that -- difference on that front. >> mr. secretary -- [inaudible] the house version includes -- [inaudible] you just came off -- [inaudible] about the benefits of that, number one. and then number two, do you think that it should be a red line for the president to keep that in there -- [inaudible] >> the president it forward a framework that he's confident can pass the house and the senate. i think it's also no secret how i feel about family leave and how the president does which is why he proposedded it, i think campaigned on it, and we'll continue to fight for it. and the importance of it, you know, it's talked about as time off. it's time to do work. good work, meaningful work.

let me also say as a new parent if, think about the difference that will be made by what's in the framework. the universal access to 3 and 4-year-old preschool, making childcare affordable for families across spectrum. that child tax credit, i mean, that's going to be making such a big difference for new parents. [inaudible conversations] >> thank you. can you circle back to your other kind of supply chain -- [inaudible] on the charter issue -- [inaudible] should be treated like other stakeholders. do you agree with that. >> you know, we're very pro-union. one of the thing we're proud of is how this legislation will create more good paying union jobs, and i think truckers who are unionized have more of those protections in terms of their health, in terms of their compensation. look, the if you have an industry with 90% turn theover, 90%er-year turn theover at the

larger employers of truckers, there's clearly an issue with the quality of the job. and one tool for improving the quality of that job is in your representation are. >> the administration -- [inaudible] so you're endorsing the short truck haul truck drivers. >> i don't know the you're applying that to a lahr employer, but we believe in what this can do to enthe standing workers -- enhance the standing workers of any industry. for independent truck drivers, it's very clear that's an issue with what happens when they get to the gate of a port if, for example, and that largely has to do with structures across the industry over and above what the union issue speaks to. >> [inaudible] in the most recent weeks -- [inaudible] >> i think we've certainly seen, yeah, we've seen some steps that, we think, are making a big difference in terms of clearing the containers.

the bottom line is -- and i think this is important, another way maybe following this, it's not that the ports are moving less goods. they're moving more goods than ever, it's just that it's still not keeping up with the demand. national retail federation predicts an all-time record high this year. that's nor mouse pressure. and whenever you've got enormous pressure on a system, you will find the weakest links and that, frankly, could pop up at any juncture 5rbd the u.s. which is why we're very focused on l.a. and long beach because that's 40% of the ports. anywhere in the country you can see these issues. [inaudible conversations] >> they not boltthey canned anymore? >> -- bottlenecked anymore? >> literally anywhere this our economy this is a relationship between manufacturer, a shipper and a retailer there are a thousand points in that chain where something can go wrong, and we're seeing those reveal themselves because of the

enormous demand, the constraints on supply, the outdated infrastructure and then the fact that the pandemic is poking holes this all of the above, which is why the other thing i think is important to point out, having seen shortages in, you know, starting with toilet paper, then it was beef last year, the best way to end a pandemic-related shortage is to end the pandemic. and that's why the vaccine push is so important. [inaudible conversations] >> thanks again. really great being with you. [laughter] neil: secretary of transportation of the united states, pete buttigieg, saying this supply disruption we've had going on, it's really picked up steam over the last four months, owes in large part to just coming from an economy in park to one that just returned to normal behavior. but it's been disrupted, he says, by the pandemic itself. while there might be a good deal of truth to the possibility that, you know, going from park to 60 miles an hour is abrupt,

but there are far more other factors here that go beyond simply supply and demand, the realization that so much of what we want comes from asia, this focus on china and china, of course, has been relishing being in the position of having be responsible for so many of the goods that we treasure and want to get our hands on right now. also by blaming covid and saying that this is really something that would not have occurred without covid. remember are, we had these disruptions in the early days, middays and even the latter days of covid. so you can't entirely place it on that. be that as it may, the secretary very confident that these problems will soon take care of themselves and that the infrastructure-only package and the follow-up big spending package which dwarfs that by a factor of 2 to 1 will address these ills without think of the accompanying inflationary problems. we'll ooh look into that -- look into that with brian brenberg,

mitch roschelle. professor, on whether this adds up to a short-lived event, that there's the not hutch longer to go. [laughter] >> i don't know. the secretary just talked about the spending plan lasting years and years and years and years into the future. i heard or the term shovel-ready, and i flinched a little bit. please don't go there. [laughter] it doesn't make any sense, so they're saying it's going to play out for years. spending is going on for years, how are you going to deal with the problem right now? he said this is very pro-union spending. ports have opposed automating the ports. guess who loves automating ports? truckers. they waste less time if the ports work more efficiently. so you see two pieces of this plan coming together in ways that don't fit. i'd like to see the secretary address some of that. he also mentioned all of the equity spending. who's going to preside over that? who's going to sort out all those thorny equity issues? ask is that going to translate into immediate relief for

people? boy, i'll believe it when i see it. neil: mitch, a job is a job. i don't know why we have to savor the union one over the one that isn't unionized. i think those un'em lowedded now the they realize, all right, i have to join a union to participate in this new, you know, gravy train, it does sort of seem to be the cart before the horse here. >> well, it's interesting, they're using union as an adjective for the noun jobs, right? neil: right. >> which doesn't make any sense to he. a job is a job, i agree with you, neil. and to brian's point, if you want to favor the unions in the narrative that we just heard from the secretary the, then lean on them right now to fix some of the problems that exist in the very ports where they're not letting non-union truckers into a union port. okay? and if you have all this massive turnover in the trucking industry, figure out a way for union and non-union to coexist.

we're in new york city where the you have nonunion workers work in a building what do the unions do? they park an inflatable rat in front of the building. so if unions are your friend here, then why don't we work with the unions and have them be more cooperative with those who aren't union. neil: and to your point earlier, professor, if you are holding a very desperate hold on to to your job and you in the union, aren't you going to be against some of these modernization tool s that are supposedly built into this legislation that could, could, you know, threaten your job? you're not going to be, you know, in a rush to implement those. >> yeah. i mean, the logic just doesn't make sense. either you're going to try to make these infrastructure ports and other pieces of what allows us to move stuff, either you're going to make that more efficient and clear the decks for that, or you're going to give more power to the people who want to stop all of that because they like the status

quo. but what's so funny to me is, you know, the secretary talks about having to fix things like pay in trucking -- i agree, there's probably problems there. we were figuring that out before we had all of these new policies that make it so difficult for companies to hire people, so difficult to move things around the country. we're acting like what we're dealing with now is a continuation of what we had before the pandemic. it's not. we were not dealing with these same problems to the same degree. the secretary has to be honest with people. he said, you know, if you have cargo ships sitting off the coast, it may be an inland problem. yes, it's an inland problem. it's a policy problem. neil: there's also a reliance on one or two key ports problem. i know florida's trying very, very hard to take some of this port traffic and having a devil the of a time in a place like fort lauderdale to beckon that traffic. but to a larger point that the secretary was mentioning as we got into this about the

inflation situation and whether all this spending is going to compound it, the administration's argument has always been something like it's over many years, the spending doesn't come bursting out pipe right away. so, you know, don't expect this to agitate a prices because it will be slow moving. but by the same token, talking about instant the help on the way. you can't have it both ways. >> they want to have their cake and eat it too -- neil: that expression's always bugged me because if you have cake, you eat it. [laughter] >> no, when it's there, you eat it. it's going to be stale in hours, okay? but the fact of the heart is if you want to say we're passing this bill, we're going solve the supply chain problem with this bill but then go on the stump and say it won't be inflationary because it's a fraction of gdp, and it's going to be over ten years and not the inflationary, it doesn't really work that way. and therefore, just to tie the pieces together, there are

truckers who truck goods on a fixed cost. so what have we con to those truckers? we've created this big disincentive because it's now costing for diesel in some places $2 more a gallon. so if you want to solve the problem, you have got to solve all of the pieces of the problem. so to go back to what we were talking about at the top of the hour, let's figure out a way to make energy prices lower so you don't have 90 turnover because people can't make a living doing it. neil: sometimes the i think that we might want to listen to ourselves, average people. and the fed survey where average folks are asked about your own inflationary expectations, they've been uncannily prescient on this and accurate. when people were first saying this is a short-lived event, no, it isn't. every time i go to the grocery store, it's still there and getting higher. and for the 12th consecutive

month, they've said this. >> when i want to know what's going on with prices, i call my how many. she's trying to buy christmas gifts for my kids right now have. she's afraid everything's going to run out. yes, we should listen to ourselves which means we should make more decisions at the local level. this is the whole argument for self-governance. when d.c. is trying to solve the infrastructure problems for a nation, we are in trouble because they don't know what they're talking about. and so you get consultant speak instead of reality. yes, let's devolve decision making to the local level, let's get people back in the game, get them into jobs. that's how we get this thing moving again. neil: gentlemen, you know this far better than i, you do this for a living, the overall inflation rate is expected to be 5.4% a year from now now, before you dismiss this survey, americans asked this same question a year ago were expecting the inflation rate to be about 5% which, by the way, is where are it is now.

a little south of that. and what that means is that the heed january income hike is -- median income spike is about to be 4.2% a year from now. you're spending more than a percent higher than that in the higher costs. so everything you've worked for and the extra income coming in going right out, probably on the cake that's sitting there. [laughter] >> just eat it. neil: eat it now while you still can. you're watching fox business, more after this. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

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life. and, apparently, peloton is not a big part of that. 19 to-3 -- 19-31 brokerages had rated it higher, but the sentiment is changing quickly. today brings the year to date loss for elton to more than 67 -- peloton to more than 67%. we spin on, after this. (vo) singing, or speaking. reason, or fun. daring, or thoughtful. sensitive, or strong.

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neil: all right. file this under the category, oh, what could possibly go wrong here. we discovered that satellite images showing that china is building these mock-ups to a t, exact replicas of warships. why would they be doing that? i want you discuss this amongst yourself, in the meantime, or get some insight from greg palkot in london. >> reporter: yeah, neil, a pretty realistic target practice with the u.s. in its sights. expert perts say china's built life-sized mock-ups at its testing site one looking very much like a u.s. aircraft carrier. another has all the features of a u.s. guided missile destroyer

and weapons systems and still another appears to show a pretend the u.s. navy vessel on rails so it could be moving while chinese missiles are fired at it. all this comes at a time of high techs between the u.s. and china about what beijing is going in the waters off its coast threatening the island of taiwan with its invasion. it also comes as china ramps up its military including test firings of a range of ballistic missiles including one branded a carrier-buster for its powerful anti-ship capabilities. now, neil, one expert told me that these mock-ups are really more detailed than they have to be indicating that perhaps china is trying to send a message to the united states of its possible dangerous intent. back to you. neil: wild. greg, thank you so much. to the china learning curve best

selling author. dan, they obviously knew we would get these satellite images. you know, mission accomplished. we're talking about them. should we worry about them? >> well, i think increasingly the chances of some sort of conflict with china are unquestionably growing if you compare it to 5-10 years ago. right now china is turning away from the economic reform and liberalization that caused it to grow in the first place. as it does that, the government is placing more emphasis on appealing to the country's nationalistic sentiment. and that doesn't bode well for the potential of tensions. obviously, we know what's going on with the flyovers near taiwan in the south china sea. war is is imminent. there's no doubt china wants a state of the art military, but the direction they're going on as a country turns into more emphasis on nationalism, and it makes it a riskier bet that we'll end up in some sort of

conflict. neil: you know what i worry about too, dan, someone makes a mistake or a plane, a chinese plane that flies over taiwan and gets shot down or anything and everything that could possibly go wrong that has in the past and triggered wars in the past. and i'm just wondering the more provocative their behavior and the more we hear of incidents like this, you have to wonder about that. finish. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, a couple weeks ago when they did 150 sorties over three days, you're thinking to yourself, what are the chances of an error in there? we're doing more freedom of navigation naval ventures not just by us, but germany's participating, the u.k. the more kind of activity we have like this, the greatest the chances for there to be a problem. that's why it would be nice if we just pulled back on the tensions, but china continues to want to demonstrate that it's serious about these objectives. i don't see it getting easier

anytime soon. we just have to continue to build alliances and prepare ourselves for what might come down the road and, hopefully, we have back channels open so that we're discussing things should any of these what you call an accident that could lead to war occur. neil: you know what i worry about as well, dan, when i see china risking damage to its financial self, going after its most successful companies and where they list and whether they're getting approval of, you know, the mother ship of the government, and they're willing to risk serious market and financial disruptions doing so with this greater military goal. they used to treasure that capitalist fallback, and now will risk great harm to themselves financially. that's a bit different than in the past. >> yes. you hit the nail on the held, neil. that's absolutely the issue. if a lot of times the sentiment on china seems to indicate that we didn't get anything out of their growth. that's not true. china became an easier nation to deal with for many, many years,

and believe it or not, global economic engagement helped them play by the rules. the problem is they started turning the direction about ten years ago, and now they seem, like you said, committed to not playing by those rules. that wasn't true ten years ago. the further they get away from actively seeking to be engaged and relying on economic growth, as i said, the more likely nationalism is what they lean on to get the support of the people, and that could lead to trouble in the south china sea and taiwan, etc. the irony is a stagnant china is probably more dangerous than a growing china. neil: and they don't seem to care whether this behavior rattles some countries to say, you know we're not going to go to your stupid olympics. what do you think of that? >> look at the japanese election that just occurred given what happened with covid over there, one of the major planks of their election strategy was a stronger

response to i china. increased defense spending, increased preparedness. their candidate actually said if there was an attack on taiwan, japanese islands would probably be next. we see this throughout the regionful there's kind of an arms race being started. if china were really taking the temperature of what's going on, they're actually making it easier for the united states to build alliances. look at australia. nobody has a greater economic stake in china than australia, but china has pushed australia, forced them to push back with these economic boycotts, they won't tolerate any dissent. so it's -- china's making it harder for if itself. i'm not sure it realizes it. neil: dan, thank you, i think. we'll have more after this. ] bit u.s. bitcoin-linked etf. what's strong with me?

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>> so many worries, but right now so many buyers eschewing those worries. s&p 500, nasdaq, racing along. to charles payne. >> thank you so much, my friend. hope you had a great weekend, neil. neil: thank you. charles: this is "making money." the juggernaut rally is continuing. composition changed a little bit. we got changes from the government action and inaction. market seeing a big loss on the other side for folks trying to balance their household budgets. it's a strange dichotomy. meanwhile stocks associated with the fourth industrial revolution cannot be stopped. i'm talking about the latest