became the face of madden nfl football, one of most successful, frankly one of the most fun sports videogames of all time. he was 85. i think most of us don't even realize how much he impacted our love of that game. rest in peace, john madden. that does it for us and "fox business tonight." "the evening edit" starts right now. ♪. elizabeth: breaking news. a jury has gunned ghislaine maxwell get h guilty on five of six counts for courting and grooming teenage girls to be sexually abused by her friend the financeer jeffrey epstein. she faces up 65 years in prison. joining us with his take, former federal prosecutor jim trusty. jim, this is the life-styles of the rich and powerful. some would say the life-styles of the rich and heinous. this is a ugly and dark case.

what americans want to know will maxwell start talking about jeffrey epstein's clients to potentially reduce the spending the rest of her life in prison? >> that is a possibility. the legal avenue for that to happen is still there. part of it whether she has come in to talk to the federal prosecutors and agents, if she has, it was failure, she was not honest, that door is pretty well shut. not testifying at trial gives her a glimmer of hope if she wants to reduce the overall sentence she can get she could have value to the government. if she gets on the stand pure per jurors herself, prosecutors say we won't use you. she can bring justice to the rest of the enterprise. not just hurt jeffrey a lot of high dollar johns went down there on the plane did unspeakable things with young women. hopefully they will do it

without doing an injustice to the sentence she already deserves. elizabeth: this is a high profile case with the "me too" movement and follows along with harvey weinstein and r. kelly. the defense name dropped prince andrew, kevin spacey, bill clinton. that has been the background, if you will, elevator music to this whole case is the lifestyles of the rich and the powerful and the intimidating. those names were brought up at trial. why would the defense bring up those names at trial? >> well i think it is probably a couple of things. one, it is probably just pointing out the window, look at that guy getting away with something. sometimes if the jury bring recognizes a whole bunch of other people didn't receive justice that will inure to the benefit of their client. look, i think there is a lot of room for people like the clintons and the prince andrews to be pretty nervous right now about the pressure that miss maxwell is feeling and the

possibility that she is going to narrate the next case and cooperate as a corroborated witness about some of the abusive stuff that took place down there. elizabeth: well its an important point you're making because we have more than 100 accusers are seeking restitution from jeffrey epstein's estate. jeffrey epstein killed himself in a manhattan jail cell in 2019. so the case against maxwell relied mainly on the it of four woman who say they were sexually abused by epstein when they were under the age of 18. that maxwell facilitated, sometimes participated in the abuse. what was interesting about this case, jim, is that the jury appeared to be on board with everything. you know, there was no deadlocked jury here. what you do say? >> yeah, i mean we had a lot of notes. we had a lot of communications from this jury. a lot of scheduling issues. a lot of asking for transcripts of witness testimony but i think

they were cohesive, i think clearly from the end result. going into the afternoon everything showed a jury methodically sifting through evidence, listening to each other, giving the case time, not feeling pressure to rush to any sort of verdict. i was not surprised they convicted on most counts because it struck me they knew the gravity of the case but they also listened to powerful evidence and came to the right result. elizabeth: is your sense prosecutors are saying to themselves this case is not over? we want to go after too jeffrey epstein's client? is that your sense of it? >> it is hard to know from the outside you know. one of the prosecutors on that case is jim comey's daughter. that obviously adds an interesting political wrinkle to everything but it is hard to know. i will tell you this, for a lot of career prosecutors that spend a lot of time doing child abuse or sex offense cases, they do not give a free pass to the johns, to the men that participated in these acts. clearly you want to go after the

pimps, the enticers, the leaders but it is an enterprise. depends on the demand of those customers and good prosecutors will try to bring just toys them as well. so we'll see. i mean whether or not it has to deal with mismaxwell, there is certainly a chance there is more to come. elizabeth: jim trusty good to have you back on. happy new year to you. let's switch gears, this is an important story for all of america. former white house top official and go-to guy on covid testing dr. bret girl i can't remember. brett giroir. what is happening to the testing. the president's mandate requires testing. why no "operation warp speed" for tests? >> thanks for having me on. we actually did have a "operation warp speed" for tests. that is why we were able to ship out 180 million rapid tests before we left office with

another 60 million on order. what really happened between january and september the current administration placed no orders. they did not keep the demand up. the industry was gone. all the people got laid off. all the lines were shut down. now you're behind the eight ball. make as many tests as possible, quickly as possible, the federal government would buy them all. that is what we did. the biden administration failed. that is why we have a testing problem now. elizabeth: the media really blamed the trump administration for testing failures across the board. now the same talk is now headed toward the biden white house. we are going to stay on this story because testing helps with avoiding lockdowns and shutdowns. you need testing in order to open up the economy and to keep people healthy. let's move on to this. the cdc is getting slammed by the media and the left claiming that the cdc is caving to big business and cutting the

quarantine period to five days from 10 because the cdc and even dr. fauci was worried about amajor worker shortage. this after these guys backed shutdowns. so what is your take on that? they're worried about tens of thousands of cops, firefighters, grocery workers, getting laid off, what do you say to this? >> we worried about that too. remember this is not just an exercise in infection control where we lock everyone up. we have to keep society going, we have to keep the economy going. what my problem is the guidelines they put out are so confusing they are hard to understand. what they clearly needed to do, it is done in the uk and other places around the world, is after you've been diagnosed with covid, the idea of getting able to get out after five days without a rapid test showing you negative is really a bit reckless and i don't know why they did that i think i know why they did that because they don't have any tests so they're really stuck. so the safest procedure would be

to isolate for five days and to test yourself to make sure you're negative. the uk, you're isolated for seven days with two negative tests, six and seven, before you get out. i think that would be prudent. they won't admit the reason they did it. they don't have the tests to do it safely. elizabeth: no indication you need to self-test. critics are citing a letter from the delta air lines ceo to the cdc director requesting the reduction to five days from 10 days quarantine but then the cdc is saying wait a second, we're citing scientific data. most viral transmission occurs one to two days before the onset of symptom and two to three days after. let's talk about this. cnn is saying the cdc is confusing people. dr. fauci is saying no, we need to protect and keep workers working. watch. >> i think it really encapsulates what many americans are feeling right now, confused a little doubtful and wary after the cdc dramatically shortened

its recommended isolation period for the covid positive just as omicron is exploding, a move that is also drawing some criticism from many reknowned experts on infectious diseases. could it lead to even more covid cases? that's a fear. >> one of things you want to be careful of we don't have so many people out. obviously if you have symptoms you should not be out but fur atomtic, you're infected we want to get people back to the jobs, particularly those with essential jobs to keep our society running smoothly. elizabeth: where was dr. fauci saying that last year when it was all about shutdowns and lockdowns and 15 days to slow the spread? now he is about the economy? are we supposed to believe that? >> look where we are the reported cases are over 440,000 but underreported by about threefold. we're having about 1.2 million new cases of covid in this country every day.

i support people to get out of isolation as quickly and safely as possible. we should do that, so we can keep our society together. the issue is because of the lack of forethought, because they did not keep the industry open, because we do not have the testing available, they did not keep the momentum that the trump administration began. we do not have the tests to do it safely. if you're infected, there is really every reason to believe that you need to test to get out as a five or six or seven. what they said is just day five, put a mask on, go out. i don't think that is a safe way to proceed but they're stuck because the lack of planning. just chaos in the administration elizabeth: you know, here's the thing, the other thing is about herd immunity, right? we've got studies coming in that omicron variant to create herd immunity and omicron variant could protect you from reinfection from the delta variant. those studies coming out of south africa. where do you come down from

that? >> that is probably true. natural immunity is very strong and hybrid immunity, being vaccinated, got the infection and vice versa is extremely strong. i think what you will see omicron is generally a very mild infect shun unless you're on the edges where you're at very high-risk. people will get this mild infect shun. i know 20 or 30 people who are triple vaccinated got omicron but have one day of sniffles and it is over. that is potent immunity. better than any booster anyone would get. i don't advice you to get sick on purpose, but if you get omicron that will have long-lasting effects for our herd immunity. i think we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel of the pandemic. elizabeth: interesting because dr. marty makary is saying you know, this is so-called nature's vaccine. we don't know yet. we're at the early stages of it but could be on the cusp of it. you're right, omicron, uk, u.s.

studies, south africa studies cuts prevalence or hospitalization rates, if you have omicron 70 to 80% less likely to be hospitalized. do we have time to show the police officer in boston upset with what is going on with vaccine mandates there? let's listen to the police officer. watch this. >> ma'am, when you were pregnant, did you drink drugs or do alcohol? >> no. >> did you eat sushi or cold cuts? did you see a doctor? your husband's wishes, guidance of your faith leaders. ma'am you did make your own decisions for yourself and unborn children? did you do everything you needed to do to have a safe and healthy pregnancy? do you right now put your faith, your person, everything that your research behind this vaccine right now and sign a document for us saying that you personally and the city will take full responsibility if something happens to us as mothers and our unborn children? would you do that right now for all of us?

elizabeth: she is about to lose her job, january 5th. she doesn't want to take the vaccine because she is pregnant. your final word. >> both my parents were police officers it absolutely pains me and it is tragic that the biden administration has so villainized people who make reasonable choices and again, i'm not saying it's a choice i would make but a choice she has to make for herself and her unborn child. it is just tragic we villainized her. we need to work with her, support our first-responders. elizabeth: got it. dr. brett giroir, great to have you back on. come back again soon. good to see you. up next, we've got missouri congressman jason smith of house budget. lots of talk who could possibly replace biden on the 2024 democrat ticket. there is talk of 10, 10 republicans who could run. it will not abqaiq walk. talk about the challenges they face. as we have nearly two dozen house democrats leaving their seats eroding nancy pelosi's grip on power. we'll talk about the fallout of that. you won't believe what they're

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♪. elizabeth: joining us now missouri congressman jason smith. it is great to have you back on, jason. congressman, it is good to see you. okay we know cnn, "new york times" reporting that there is talk of replacing biden on the 2024 ticket. there is little talk of the republicans who could run in 2024. here is potentially 10 of them. congressman, this isn't a cakewalk. the country wants policies, answers on the pandemic an nation, crime, border, abuses of power, what do you say? >> what i will say is the first question that has to be answered is, is donald trump running? if donald trump decides to run in 2024 he will be the republican nominee. he is the leader of republican party. the question if he decides not to. while he was president we had the best economy our country has ever seen, the lowest unemployment. it turned into a spiral.

now since joe biden has become a president he created one crisis after another, whether the border crisis, energy crisis, afghan crisis, american people have had enough of joe biden as president. elizabeth: here is the thing, 23 house democrats are leaving. that is eroding nancy pelosi's grip on power. could they start in january and pressure to ramp up to pass his agenda? he they are trying to do it by executive action. remember obamacare, obamacare was dead in the water in january 2010. by march of 2010 it was the law of the land. could they ram it through? >> bad policies are never dead in washington, d.c., liz. we have to play "whack-a-mole" on the horrible five trillion dollar tax-and-spending spree they are trying to push through.

you better believe it, house democrats, senate democrats, white house will do everything they can to force this down. this package is all about rewarding their political friends an allies, donors, they will try to follow through but guess what? the american people will continue to push back. you can count on house republicans and senate republicans continuing to represent the american people. the last thing we need is $5 trillion in spending when people right now are facing the highest costs of goods at the grocery store around the gas pump. elizabeth: right. americans are sick of the topspin, sick of politicizing everything and constantly demonizing everybody. andy puzder pointed this out too. biden did not have a national strategy to beat covid. our southern border is not secure. the afghan withdrawal was not extraordinary success, inflation is not transitory and government spending does not lower

inflation. the big thing people worry about crime, the murder rate exploded 30% higher. we have not seen a spike like that in 100 years. last time it was spiking in 2001. that counted the 911 murders. and all der man saying stop politicizing defunding of police. stop politicizeing crime. >> when you do not fund through attrition, does not allow the city council to hire what you need to hire, that demoralizes police and destroys the relationship so integral putting bad people behind bars. we need to focus on appreciating the brave men and women putting on a uniform i every day to keep our community safe regardless of san francisco, seattle. politics must exit the stage when it comes to public safety. elizabeth: congressman, your reaction. >> people want to be safe. this defund the police movement is atrocious.

it is the wrong recipe for america. we're seeing the results of it. the american people just want security and hopefully the democrats are waking up and seeing that their policies have been all wrong. elizabeth: congressman jason smith, graduate to have you back on. come back again soon. good to see you. >> happy new year. elizabeth: we have a jam-packed show for you. we'll stay on the theme of politicizing the pandemic and the border and crime. it is coming back to bite politicians. it is hits them hard all that politicization. we'll break it down. up next from the house gop doctors caucus congressman greg murphy. he is also a doctor. we'll get an update whether president biden will approve vaccine mandates for airline flights. he is talking to his advisors about it. plus americans are voting with their feet. they're h fleeing lock down states. a number of states understand what is going on. they're rejecting shutdowns and mandates after a year claiming they work. wow, what a turnaround. keep it heren

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and huge cash prizes at healthywager.com. today, you have to deal with a lot of moving parts. you want everything to be on autopilot. and to be prepared if anything changes. with ibm, you can do both. your business can bring data together across your clouds, from suppliers to shippers, to the factory floor. so whatever comes your way, the wheels keep moving. seamlessly modernizing your operations, that's why so many businesses work with ibm. ♪. elizabeth: let's welcome back to the show a member of the house gop's doctor caucus, he is north carolina congressman dr. greg murphy. it is great to have you back on. which wail will president biden go? will he approve a new vaccine mandate to fly on airplanes? >> liz, that will always be wonderful. we don't know, we don't know what he will be told.

that is one of the problems that happened during the entire reign of their administration they have been markedly inconsistent. one day it is one thing, one day it is the next thing. no mandates, or everybody needs to be vaccinated. the sad thing if you have to be mandated to fly on a plane, what if you walk in over the border in the southern united states, is there any mandate there? you're working, you have to be mandated now to get the vaccine but if you're on medicaid or not working on some other federal benefit there is no mandate there. to be honest with you, liz, i don't know what he will do. i don't think it should be done. i don't think it moves the needle anywhere. the sad thing this virus is here and will have to mutate to a form that is not virulent anymore until we get out of the pandemic and this mandate and forcing businesses an schools to close do nothing but hurt the american people. elizabeth: wait a minute if you're on medicaid or medicare you don't face a mandate?

>> not to my knowledge. elizabeth: okay. >> i'm not for mandates. we're mandating businesss who have people who come to work. elizabeth: underred stood. >> but we're not mandating people on welfare. we'll stay on that. >> i understand. elizabeth: we'll dig into that later on another show. your point on dr. fauci has gone back and forth on vaccines mandates for airline flights, suggesting he is for it and saying he is not. it is about coercing and getting more people to get vaccinated. that is what dr. seek emanuel said. dr. fauci implied that too. want your reaction, watch. >> to get the kind of community level transmission low is to have more people vaccinated. the reason to do the vaccines for travel is to get more people vaccinated. that is the fundamental point. elizabeth: so is that the way to

go? >> well he is exactly right. that is the reason they're doing it. it is not germane to being in an airplane or being on a train. just trying to get more people vaccinated. liz, i said this to you several times from day one i think vaccination is a good thing to do but in the light of other things that are going on we know that people are still getting sick, sometimes being vaccinated. some have even gotten the booster. this is not the way out of the pandemic. the way out of the pandemic will be with therapeutics and the way out of pandemic will be eventually this virus mutates. the sad thing is -- elizabeth: and vaccinations. >> i think these mandates are -- elizabeth: vaccinations, wait we understand there are breakthroughs with vaccinations. vaccinations are not the be all, end all, we understand what you're saying but vaccinations do lower of incidence going to the hospital and, hospitalized. >> that -- elizabeth: we hear what you're saying doctor, a federal court just upheld the federal covid

vaccine mandates for oklahoma national guard as states are calling in national guard to cover tens of thousands of health workers being let go because they're not vaccinated. >> that is a catch 22. the sad thing we're on the fifth surge. our hospitals are having a large population of individuals coming in. our hospital workers, doctors, our staff. they're tired. they're fatigued. they're literally run dry from working the last two years. i fully understand that. i have again been a proponent of vaccination. i just don't think mandates move the needle. they throw people into unemployment. that leads to so many collateral effects we're not studying now. the only parameter we're looking at is covid relate the eschews. we're not looking at substance abuse, depression, suicide, all the other things happening because of our reactions. i think honestly we need to step back to look at the entire picture. elizabeth: we hear you. you know what is really interesting, a growing number of states are saying no to shutdowns, lockdowns,

restrictions. talking new hampshire, ohio, new york, colorado. we have new government data, more than a million people, fled, went away from lockdown states in 2020. talking illinois, california, new york. texas, florida, arizona gaining hundreds of thousands of new residents. now even dr. fauci is against lockdowns. dr. you are murphy i like you to listen to this. >> okay. >> when you shut down society, when you shut down the country there is a lot of deleterious effects that go beyond that well beyond the economy the availability of people to get things done for their own health. when you shut down the country you have people with other diseases who don't have the opportunity to get their hiv test, to get their hiv meds, to get their mammograms, to get the colonoscopies, all the things you do when you shut down, there is a lot of deleterious effects that go well beyond the economy. elizabeth: why wasn't he saying

this in march of 2020? >> well, i don't know, what he is saying is exactly true. i'm actually writing a letter to the nih to ask them to study just this, how many people died because of lockdowns rather than say with covid. this is something we have to pay attention to. we cannot afford the lockdowns. i don't think they did anything. they didn't truly move the needle exempt they hurt a lot of americans. elizabeth: congressman greg murphy, also dr. greg murphy, great to have you on. come back soon. we're coming out of the bottom of the hour. you're watching the fox business network. congressman andy biggs from arizona, how wrong it is to stop politicizing everything, stop it. stop politicizing the pandemic and crime and the border. it is coming back to bite politicians and their legacy. we'll break it down on "the evening edit".

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elizabeth: back now congressman andy biggs from house judiciary. people are sick of politicizing the pandemic. good to see you, congressman. they blamed trump. the pandemic was key to democrats winning in 2020. they ran as the party listening to the science. now democrats are being hurt by the pandemic biden claimed they would shut down. what do you say? >> i think you're right, all americans are pretty sick of everything being politicized, frankly weaponized in the name of politics. don't forget this is the same joe biden and kamala harris said they would never take a vaccine that was developed under president trump. now they're mandating vaccines that were developed under president trump. so when you trash somebody the way they trash president trump on everything, whether it is border, economy, covid, you name it, they trashed him on everything, well you're going to be held accountable if you don't

at least meet his performance or exceed it. so they failed in everything. it has become very politicized. that is where we are today, in the covid as well as everything else. >> congressman, let's watch then candidate biden talking about you know, the pandemic. watch this? >> the administration's failure on test something colossal. it's a failure on planning, leadership and execution. we will deal honestly with the american people and will never ever, ever quit. that is how we'll shut down this virus. i'm going to shut down the virus. i'm not going to shut down the economy. i'm going to shut down the virus. need to scale up testing so anyone who needs one can get a test. after 10 months of the pandemic we still don't have enough testing. that is travesty. some state officials are passing laws, signing orders that forbid

people from doing the right thing but you are not going to help at least get out of the way. elizabeth: your reaction, congressman? >> well, you know, that montage is excellent because it is right on point this is the guy who said he would stop the virus and stop the covid in its tracks. wouldn't engage in lockdowns. yet he is forcing people out of work. he is violated virtually everything he said he would do. so again we get to this point, why, why is he doing that? well because he has failed. he has failed at everything. so when he says we're going to shut down this pandemic. they didn't have the testing, blaming, 10 months into this, no testing, yet we find out in october, he was offered an opportunity to have literally have a billion tests home test kits made, manufactured, distributed and he didn't do that. now he says well, yeah maybe i made a mistake there. he did make a mistake.

that is where we are. so it does get politicized. that is what -- elizabeth: yeah, he was, sorry "vanity fair" story offerred a plan of 732 million test as month. they didn't have the manufacturing power to go do that. now he is saying half a billion tests will be manufactured by january, well pass the holiday surge. congressman, once in power democrats embraced lockdowns, all sorts of mandates, school closures. it really became sort of this public virtue labeling, that anybody who went against that, who re assisted any of that -- resisted that. growing number of americans are leaving the lockdown states. the data shows that. biden said winter we're up for illness and death, that is how they were talking the doom and gloom democrats talking campaigning against trump. they sounded the same way? >> you're exactly right.

that drives me crazy. i know everybody else i talk to, maybe my echo chamber, maybe living in free arizona. they heard this type of rhetoric on the campaign trail. now you hear it again because they're not getting it done. you hear people like, then he says, well there is no federal solution. well, okay, that's why greg abbott, governor of texas said we'll do it the texas way. no mandates and personal responsibility. they have been successful. desantis in florida has been successful. kristi noem in south dakota has been successful. many republican governors -- elizabeth: because they didn't shut down. >> federal mandates. elizabeth: right. we hear you, hear's the thing, congressman ronny jackson says the same thing. democrats are blaming inflation on the pandemic. blaming crime on the pandemic. using it to do vote reform. where does this end, final word? >> well it doesn't end until they get control. that is what they want.

the american people are saying no. that is why you're seeing people leave the states. we'll keep fighting in congress. but i tell you the states got to stand up and they're doing that and they will prevail against an out of control presidency, administration right now. elizabeth: congressman andy biggs, good to have you on. come back soon. okay, we've got more show for you coming up. up next, cybersecurity expert morgan wright, he knows a lot about technology. is con valley getting slammed for bad technology. google masks getting criticized stranding drivers in blizzards and natural disasters. amazon alexa talking about a way to do social media kind of challenge that harms children. also this, reports that amazon.com is censoring negative reviews of china's communist leaders. why? to grow its business in china. guess who is helping them, a former top obama official. the story next.

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♪. elizabeth: let's welcome to the show cybersecurity expert, he is a big expert on technology, he is morgan wright. morgan, great to have you on. how pervasive is this problem? a lot of people are angry in northern california at google maps. google maps they're saying stranded car drivers in a major blizzard outside of lake tahoe, putting them on deserted roads shortcuts through the woods or mountain passes after highwayses were knocked out by the blizzard. is that a pervasive problem? >> it is, liz. good to see you again. merry christmas, happy new year. the problem is digital dumping down ever america. these maps do not have local knowledge. if you want to know what is going on ask locals. do not take this road. what the algorithms see, what the algorithm sees, i see a route. this route is shorter than the

other route. that the route is only five feet wide and can handle only one car around go through the forest. when my mom took my grandmother to georgia we used maps and used aaa. you can't rely on that. you have to have the local knowledge. that is what a lot of maps lack, the local an few tiff knowledge. elizabeth: people are saying that about google maps and waze. people were misled trying to flee disasters like wildfires. uber drivers are complaining how bad the apps are, they try to do the shortcut but end up stranding you, you could drive your car into a lake, who knows. we'll move on to this. amazon, amazon's alexa a voice assistant, the 10-year-old girl said alexa, i want a challenge. alexa streamed in a social media challenge, touching a penny, a coin to the prongs of a half

inserted plug. she could have been electrocuted. that is pretty dangerous stuff. that is dumb challenge on social media that alexa picked up. how do you stop that? >> same thing like tiktok, social media. sound like this parent was close enough to stop this from happening. but at some point the age, the age which we let children use technology has a very harmful effect, whether it is social media, whether it is tiktok or things like this, parents have to be very careful. it is the law of unintended consequences. are there some things alexa might do for children. break ought puzzle. go outside. play in the neighborhood. not everything has to be electronically driven. we can't dumb down america letting technology do everything for us. play board games, get puzzles. yeah. elizabeth: i want to move to this, president obama's former press secretary jay carney is helping this is from reuters is reporting this. amazon.com is censoring and

banning negative reviews on amazon.com in china of the communist leaders including xi xinping's speeches and more. this is censorship at the highest level. what do you say to that? what's your reaction? >> if tee -- tianamen square didn't teach as you lesson when you eliminate history this is a cautious. when i see reviews, five star, not a single negative review. i think there is something wrong. creating a narrative. unfortunately if it happens in china it will be too easy to take the same algorithms and same approaches to start applying them in other places, which means the end of the day how do you know you trust the review that is there. liz, last point on that. the thing more disturbing than anything else we're allowing american citizens, are participating in the rewriting of history especially when it comes to countries who at this time in our point in time in history are our greatest adversary right now. that should be scary more than

anything else. elizabeth: human rights abusers. morgan wright, you're terrific, great to have you on. coming up next. national border patrol council vice president art del cueto, gop senators jim lankford, haul lay, slamming the white house and homeland security, they're covering up the got-aways in order to push amnesty through. we have the alarming numbers next on "the evening edit" superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th we hit the bike trails every weekend

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back with us now, national border patrol council vice president, great to have you back on. can you help us figure this out? senator langford and josh hawley, they sent a letter to homeland security claiming you are hiding an internal report that shows massive 2020 increase in illegal migration, people over state, almost 600,000, is that the real number of getaways? >> first of all, thank you for having me on, we've been talking about them for quite some time. the problem with the getaways, there's no way for them to truly know how many there are. many times was reported is 20

plus one there after a group, they say 20 plus, those 20 plus-40, 50, sometimes 60 or close to a hundred. if the agent don't apprehend them promote the only thing that will be written down is 20 getaways so that is the scary part. there's no actual number. at the end, the number reported, the number you see ends up being pretty much just a guess from the agency and the administration and that's where the problem is and it all being caught. the administration has had the open-door policy, allowed the floodgates to be opened so what happens is resources are moved from one area having to process the individuals turning themselves in leaving gaps and that's where you have the getaways coming through. >> republican senators james lankford and josh hawley claimed the white house is hiding few migration to help democrats pass an amnesty via biden's build

back better bill so the nearly 600,000 people who overstayed their visas but then you've got hundreds of thousands who do not show up for their court date when they tried to claim asylum that could be another 400,000, we don't know. there could be 1 million getaways on top of the 2 million coming illegally, is that true? >> that's one 100% right and the scary part. they don't know how many people are in this country illegally at this time. the number thrown out for many years is simply a guess for these individuals and who is it taking advantage of it? the criminals. again, the drug traffickers, they know very much what to wear. when you look at the number of getaways and still know the number is low compared to what it probably is and then at the fact of drugs coming through those areas when agents are being moved over to processing, they don't even know how many

drugs are flooding the borders coming into our streets and it's all happening during this administration because they refused to see what's going on, they've turned a blind eye is allowed the criminals to flourish in this country and in our border states. >> if there are 600,000, nearly 600,000 estimated overstaying their visas, if those 400,000, again we don't know, for getaways supposed to show up in court didn't and then you've got 2 million people coming illegally trying to cross, that's about the size of phoenix or the size of dallas or san diego, about the size of nebraska. so how long? >> again, that's just a guess. it's a low number guess. many of the individuals who are over stays when we see

unaccompanied juveniles come across, many have said my parents are already hear from my dad's already here or my mom is already here so are those counted into the over space? no one knows the system right now and that is part of the problem, how do you stop it? start enforcing laws at the southern border, stop more people from entering illegally and use the resources available so they can do the process and have the agents patrolling the border and put them on the line so they can stop more of the flood coming in right now none of that is being done. >> we have so many homeless people on the streets, so many military veterans homeless and on the streets', so many people we need to take care of, we are in opened arms nation, this feels like abuse. your final word? >> it definitely is. i come from a family of

immigrants who did it the right way, there's a white right way to do it and many times i've said, it's probably getting old but you have to knock on my door so i can let you in, you can't break them through my window or front door and that's all we are asking, that needs to be done. it takes bipartisanship to be together on this. >> thank you for joining us, thank you for your service to our country. i'm elizabeth mcdonald, you've been watching the evening edit, join us again tomorrow night. >> breaking news tonight, ghislaine maxwell found guilty on five of six charters of helping jeffrey epstein sexually abused teen girls. while she start naming names? i am tom shillue and for kennedy. the trial lasted nearly a month and victory has been deliberating since early last week. in the end, he decided she did indeed help lure girls as young as 14 for epstein