1898. stuart: i would go with 1910. we're both wrong, 187. it was hosted by president rutherford b. hayes. if i would have asked you you wouldn't have known, neither would i. that is a fact. >> no. stuart: i'm not sure what an easter egg roll really is we'll find out at some point. ashley, thank you for all your help. neil, it is yours. neil: stuart, thank you very much. we're looking at wholesale inflation following what happened on the retail inflation front. so we got a double-whammy. the difference today is the wholesale inflation report, even though a precursors come towing grocery aisles in stores, for us there is not nearly a worry about it. let's get right to it. see how the markets are digesting this. dow jones industrials are up 129 points. lauren simonetti following all of this. surprising good news on the earnings front. hey, lauren.

lauren: neil, good to see you. welcome unfortunately to double-digit inflation because we're there. producer prices businesses paid to stock their shelves, they shot up 11.2% in the last year. those costs are largely passed on to you and me, consumers. that indicates we're not likely at peak inflation. you can't just plame blame food and energy, strip components out, core ppi up 9.2% annually. most on record. the fed will likely hike rates further, faster to contain all of this. separately but related, mortgage bankers association, they now expect overall mortgage originations that includes refinances to drop 35 1/2% from last year. homes are expensive. inflation. rates are going up. economy is slowing. the question is by how much? we got a glimpse from jpmorgan ceo jamie dimon today. he says he is not predicting a recession but it is possible that we get one.

the nation's biggest bank, taking a 500 million-dollar charge from russia. russia, inflation, those are becoming the new buzzwords in earnings report cards, replacing covid and supply chain which still exist. but we have more to worry about right now. jpmorgan stock down 3%. their profits fell 42% in the quarter. their trading volumes fell. fewer ipos. higher paychecks. authorized a 30 billion-dollar stock buyback. expect more the same tomorrow. banks opening their books. wells fargo, morgan, citi. banks benefit higher rates but not from a slowing economy should that happen. should recession be imminent or even provokerred, neil. neil: we forget that. it is a mixed bag for them. thank you very much for that, lauren simonetti. the biden administration, just letting you know has gone ahead extended the mask mandate on airlines, airplanes, at

airports, other transit centers for another 15 days. i believe this was to expire april 18th. instead it will expire on may 3rd. we have susan li here. we have got ray wang here. the mask mandate is kind of interesting, susan, it is yet another reminder of the presence of covid. it is still around. of course the latest variants are spiking, not nearly as worrisome as some original cases but this kind of cements the impression that this mask stuff goes on a little while longer. what do you make of it. reporter: at least another 15 days. delta ceo ed bastian, if it was up to him he thinks we should get rid of masks. that is not stopping americans from traveling. the reason delta reported a loss in the first three months of this year because of the rise in omicron cases. if you look at march, delta ceo saying he is looking at record

bookings in the month. despite the fact, neil, air fares going up 20% in the month. talking about producer prices and inflation, i well you this, in this environment if you're an airline, a company able to raise prices despite the fact that you can raise prices in this type of environment. somebody else talking in my ear there. lost my train of thought. you know what i mean, neil. you get rewarded overcome inflation raising prices people still buy your tickets, that is interesting, too, you can look at the renewed activity maybe a sign interest rates have to continue backing up, especially with the added wholesale inflation report today, looking at that rate, you would think that would keep this pushback going. it is not happening today. 10-year coming town. i'm wondering why that is? because even technology stocks, very sensitive to a backup in rates, also enjoying this, who knows if it's a brief reprieve. a lot of those technology

stocks, nasdaq, especially representative of them storming back. what do you make of that? >> well i think we're looking at, growth will really be in the high-tech area, right? people still see that as growth engine happening. 2.7 trillion in savings being spent down back to the revenge travel susan was talking about. people willing to do that. there is belief we'll pass on some cost increases for consumers for a little bit more. bank earnings look good. tech earnings look good. travel, reopening stocks are doing well. people hope they ride this out. long term, two quarters out, i think we're going to see revenues up. people expected inflation numbers adjusts in there we might have negative gains. actually there will be losses in terms of what was being reported. i think that's really where we're at. the market is a little drunk at the moment in terms of its outlook but inflation is still playing a role here and i think it is pernicious. we have inventory, inflation,

infection, interest rates and of course we have invasion. those five is are weighing macrofactors on everybody. neil: it is interesting, susan, look at the environment where the federal reserve is raising interest rates, the knee-jerk reaction people have it has to be bad for stocks but not always. in most cases in fact the return on the s&p is positive, sometimes very positive from the start of those rate hikes right through their completion. for example in 77 to 80 period s&p went up 6 1/2%. 80 to 81 period of, 10 1/2%. 183 to 8412.6%. those are just a few. more often than not, looking back to the nist '50s, that has been thecation. what do you think of this. >> five out of six rate hiking cycles it went up.

volcker years, in a period where you saw the s&p go up 169%, even exceeding the inflation gains we saw during the period. so when rates rise, by the way inflation is also indicative of agreeing economy as well, that your pocketbooks, stocks and companies as i said weather the storm, raise prices and keep demand there. neil: what is interesting looking at this, ray, is that the typical period of a fed tightening cycle averages a little under two years and often times it's a lot more than that. it was 2 1/2 years in the 1980s. it was about almost three years from 1955 to 57. so there are some spike periods here where you know, this idea that it's a short-lived rate hike cycle is proven wrong. it is anything but.

we're in this for a while. not saying that it will be bad for stocks or bad period but normally it lasts quite a while. >> yeah, it is definitely happening and we're definitely seeing the rate hiking. people are betting on real estate. asset classes change. even though real estate is looking tighter with the mortgage rates going up what is actually happening people are betting on real estate, there is demand for single family homes. jobs imbalance, take los angeles, definitely seeing that kind of trend continue. definitely south florida as well. neil: guys, hang on, i want to talk to but the latest dust-up of elon musk and stock sale, the first lawsuit filed because of the timing of that stock sale or stock purchase i should say. i do want to explore the meaning of that in a bit. meantime right now, we have winston sears, the republican lieutenant governor of virginia. virginia has gone back and forth on the notion of suspending the

state gas tax. at least three states have already done that but not as many as you would think. lieutenant governor, very good to have you, but what is your own view on this? prices have been coming down over the last couple of weeks. they're still ridiculously high but there is a pull and push in your state as to whether that tax should be rescinded for a while. where are you on this? >> we ran on it, neil. we told the voters exactly what we were hearing from them they wanted the gas tax gone, if not at least delayed. and that's what we're trying to do. we're trying to fulfill what the voters told us that they wanted. we're being stopped at every way possible. neil: who is stopping you? >> i'm sorry? neil: who is stopping you? who is really trying to fight you on this? >> well, it would be the democrats. the democrats have other ideas what they want to do. for example, they want to give a 50-dollar refund to the people and that's not going to work.

by the way they only came to that conclusion after they saw that the voters wanted some relief from gas tax. they saw what happened in california. even if california can want to do something about this and exorbitantly high gas tax, they need to do something. it's not going to work. the people want what we have been telling them. they want relief. they're feeling it at the gas pump. they're feeling it in their food prices. they're feeling it everywhere. but you know what? ultimately we need to get to the source of all of this and we need to get back to being net energy producers. that's what we need. neil: how do you make up, lieutenant governor, for the revenue you lose by even temporarily dropping that state gas tax? there are even some republicans in your state who think that it could come back to hurt you if it means revenue coming into the state is impacted in a severe way.

>> well, there is always a push and a pull to everything. neil: right. >> but we believe that the right move right now is to give the people more money in their pocketbook because they're feeling it at the pump. everybody is feeling it at the pump, no matter which way you go, it its going to be, it is going to hurt some way or the other. we're looking at the less hurtful way and our governor happens to believe the way to do that is give the people relief at the pump. they're paying this $26 a gallon as you're seeing there. the federal rate is 18 cents, a little bit more than that per gallon. and we think that if we reduce ours it is better. neil: i believe on the federal level, talking about this, governor, notion of giving money back to the people, there was concern there wouldn't be passed along to people. there is a delay effect or proprietors could delay giving

it back, not giving it back at all. that kind of puts lawmakers at the federal level to say we won't nix the federal gasoline tax for the time-being. how do you feel about that? >> we believe it is more effective at the state level. the feds can do what they want. we have control here at the state level and so it's more, it's higher. you see the gas tax is higher at the state level. it is 26 cents. fed is 18.7, 18.4. we need to stale within our realm of authority to get it done. the people are looking to us to get it done. they're telling us that is what they want. we were just elected three, four months ago. so our message is a newer message. the democrats were elected three years ago. theirs is a three-year-old message. it is not working any longer. it is not going to fly. neil: all right. thank you very much for joining

us, winsome sears, the lieutenant governor of virginia. marine corps veteran i would point out. thank you, governor. i was looking at the quid pro quo with hiking rates, how long it lasts, how significant the rate hikes are. one interesting little footnote on the late 1970s, starting with jimmy carter, continuing with ronald reagan, when rates went up over a 33-month period, there was a brief reprieve. another 11 months they resumed. it brought the original rates from 4 1/2%, when all was said and done, to 14%. before things started slowing down. we'll have more after this. (vo) for me, one of the best things about life is that

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♪. >> how big of a set back is for you and the rest of the city? >> well it's really a, it is, it is a concern for all of those new yorkers. i use the subways a lot. i'm in the subway, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning speaking with passengers, speaking with my law enforcement officers. of course our recovery is depending on people feeling that our subway system is safe, reliable and we must make sure

an incident like this is not a setback. i know this city. i know new yorkers. we're resilient. neil: all right, no doubt new yorkers are resilient, to eric adams, new york mayor's point here, but they're also very, very concerned that the guy behind that shooting in the brooklyn train station has yet to be found although they are getting closer to that. bryan llenas has more. bryan. reporter: neil, yeah, we are now seeing new images of the prime suspect, 62-year-old frank r. james. the law enforcement says images shows frank james after the attack. he is leaving a subway station. we're not exactly which subway station, if it is the one he attacked which is the 36th street in brooklyn. a senior law enforcement officer tells our david spunt, that they're trying to track frank james based on contacts in

wisconsin and philadelphia. they found a key left inside of the subway car after the attack happened, which led investigators toe frank james who rented the u-haul van in philadelphia. they found the moving van found five miles away from the came seen at the 36th street subway station. investigators are looking into a series of youtube videos posted by frank james, complaining about homelessness, new york city, and mayor eric adams. he reportedly says he was diagnosed with a mental illness. was quote, entering the danger zone. that he was full of hate, anger and bitterness. >> this person will be brought to justice. we don't know his motives yet. we continue to peel back the layers of an investigation to come to a thorough understanding what motivated him. i do know this, he wanted to bring terror into our system. he wanted to intentionally terrorize those passengers.

reporter: inside of the manhattan-bound n subway train police found three extended ammo magazines, detonated, undetonated smoke grenades, a hatchet and hand grenades. they found a glock, 9mm handgun. lawlaw enforcement official tole frank james purchased the handgun for the attack in a pawn shop in ohio in 2011. unfortunately the nypd said security cameras were not working at three subway stations including the 36th street station at the center of the attack. the nypd doubled patrols of subway stations citywide. a nypd commissioner rode inside of a subway train to ease people's fears traveling to and from work. neil: bryan, the one image you noted here, police have of him, presumably james leaving a subway station, they were not

able to ascertain whether it was that subway station that was hit yesterday, are they under the assumption he just walked out after this, maybe following the very same people who were fleeing his attack? reporter: yeah. it is a good question again how did he leave the subway station? obviously the fact that this is an image of the watching attack. we heard from the police commissioner. used terms like ran off. from our understanding he was able to escape somehow by foot, but in terms of where he is exactly, obviously there, is no indication at all where he is. only that u-haul van was found five miles away, probably, what, six hours after the attack. neil: thank you very much, bryan llenas. where could this guy be? what was behind the attack? could he have any help? let's go to nypd former assistant police of chiefs,

chief detective of brooklyn. good to have you. what do you think of images coming to light even though cameras in this particular station were not working, outside they were and outside we might get more images and the like, so, if you were leading this investigation, what would you be looking at and for? >> neil, there is lot, what could be chaos, well cory graphed operation, and nypd detectives are the best at this. you know there is a command post set up. different units, different agencies are there as leads, agencies coming in, they're acting based on those leads. so simply at the beginning you're trying to save lives. you're administering first aid, putting tourniquets on. second you want to talk to the people before they leave the

scene. witnesses if they see a person. did they take a picture? did they take a photo? obviously the next thing video, trying to do it in a logical progression, you're not wasting time. they're calling on perpetrator now. not very sophisticated. we don't know his motive is. he did make a lot of mistakes. thank god it wasn't worse than what it was. he did have 15 additional rounds of ammunition he could have used. and he didn't. he made of mistakes aided investigation. atf, they're the best at what they do. i'm sure we will have him in short order. neil: a gut call, chief, do you think he had help? >> unknown at this time. so it was definitely a planned event. he didn't just show up on the subway carrying these things around. but at same time he wasn't very sophisticated. i think he might have subscribed

to that terrorist mantra we've seen on terrorist websites, do what you can, with what you have, where you are. so he did manage to fire 33 shots. but he left a lot of identifying objects at the scene. it looks like his gun jammed or he ran out of one of his clips was emptied. he either didn't know how to clear the jam or reload the gun. he left, magazines at the scene. so you know, not completely sophisticated. he used smoke bombs. he had fireworks as opposed to a sew necessary indicated ied or pressure cooker bomb or something to that effect. while he was unsophisticated he was still very capable of causing a lot of damage to a lot of people. we don't want to minimize that but it could have been a lot worse. neil: chief, obviously this sort of reignites the concerns people have about returning to new york, not covid worries them. but crime, that was way before

this particular incident. if you think about it, you're especially vulnerable in the subway car. a lot of people who just say, well that's it, i'm not taking the subway. advice people in a situation like this, how to protect yourself? >> so, number one, situational awareness. you have to be aware of your surroundings. unfortunately in the subway car, depending on model of that subway car there is nowhere to lead to if something happens in the car. choose wisely, observe the car before you step in. you don't have to be first one into the car. maybe you take a look before you step in. if you have any unease at all. there will be another train. you rather be safe than be in a hurry. keep your back to something if you can, so someone doesn't have the opportunity to put you on to the tracks. there is no mystery how we got here. just a short time ago they were having demonstrations in the transit system saying they

didn't want police in the transit system. neil: you're right. that brought us to probably where we are here. patrick henry, thank you very much. i would love to pick your brain when we get more details on this guy, if it is this guy. if he is still in the city. if he still outside the city? maybe outside the country. we'll keep an eye on that. also keeping a eye what is going half a world away in ukraine. even president zelenskyy is saying it will be a rough phase two of the battle, land battle that requires a whole bunch of different equipment that what he has. heavy military artillery. that artillery we're told is on the way. one crucial thing he wanted at least from the united states he is not getting. i will tell you all about it after this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this.

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president biden: none should hinge on whether a dictator declares war, commits genocide

half a world away. yes, i called it genocide because it has become clearer and clearer putin is trying to wipe out the idea of being ukrainian. neil: all right, it has been almost 24 hours since the president made the comment of genocide. no one dialed that back from the white house or said those predictable what the president meant to say was. he followed up on war crimes he accused vladmir putin leaving and to the ukrainian people. upping it to genocide as well. vladmir putin for his part says this is not the kind of language that is constructive. when it comes to having ongoing talks with ukraine they have hit a dead end. bryan llenas. i'm sorry trey yingst is in kyiv ukraine here. looking at my wrong notes. i apologize for that, trey. reaction to the genocide comment from president biden, what have you heard? reporter: neil, people are

looking at what is happening here on the ground in ukraine and bodies are still being recovered on the outskirts of kyiv as this capital city remains under threat. i do need to warn our viewers of some of the following images are graphic. the rigid, bloodied body of a man is examined about i war crimes prosecutors in the town of bucha. just outside of the ukrainian capital teams of investigators are digging up a mass grave filled with civilians, killed by russian troops. >> translator: during bucha's occupation by the russian forces people were shot just because they spoke ukrainian. helped out as volunteers or supported our armed forces. reporter: more than 400 residents of this kyiv suburb were killed by russian forces when they entered the town. more bodies are being found each day amid the rubble. you can see the damage here done by russian forces to civilian vehicles. across this town of bucha there is destruction left in the wake

of those russian troops who came here to the suburb of kyiv. with one thing in mind, trying to take the ukrainian capital. they were met with first resistant. while they fired on residential buildings and grocery stores like the one behind me they were not successful in making their advance on kyiv. he stayed in bucha during the invasion. he described what life was like under russian occupation. they were coming inside of our basements, checking our houses. it was very frightens thee says. thank god they didn't hurt us. as ukraine prepares for further escalation in the east, the capital of kyiv does remain under threat as volodymyr zelenskyy, the president of ukraine was meeting with four other european presidents today in the capital. there were air ride sirens sounding in the distance. neil. neil: i just don't want to drop this on you, trey.

we're learning a lot more weapons are coming president zelenskyy's way, including a whole lot of weapons, supplies, armored vehicles, weapon systems, even combat aircraft, drones, but not mi-17 helicopters he apparently requested, at least not from the united states. do we know anything about that? why that was one thing we did not deliver or plan to deliver? i wonder how it would impact zelenskyy and this new strategy to fight a ground war? reporter: it's a difficult balancing beam for ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy to maintain being thankful for weapons and support he is getting from the international community, specifically the united states but also push forward in asking for critical things like helicopters, even fighter jets to push back against this russian offensive. this isn't the first time that zelenskyy asked for something

from the united states and been denied but it is significant as u.s. intelligence officials believe that russia is planning to advance forces deeper into eastern ukraine and try to create a situation where russian troops can quickly take over donetsk and luhantsk, the eastern regions of the country. we can expect to hear more from ukrainian president zelenskyy about that. this is not the only thing the ukrainians asked for the past 48 days that they haven't got. neil: trey yingst in kyiv on that. we have founder ceo of group just answer, compels businesses not only rail against what they see happening in ukraine but do something about it. he has been leading this charge, he found ways to help the ukrainian people and the economy there in ways you could never have imagined. andy, very good to have you. what made you start this, first off? >> well, so, my company has 262 employees in ukraine.

my family and i lived in ukraine and have spent a lot of time with the people of ukraine. so we're on a mission to help them. neil: the kind of help that you are trying to encourage others to give, what, what do they need most there? >> well it is interesting, so we started with money and a lot of the things that many of us are trying to do. right now what they need a lot of is things like tourniquets. on the medical side they need insulin. they're running out of insulin. these things are hard to get in ukraine and other parts of europe. they need body armor and night vision goggles and drones and things like that. these are very, very hard to get right now. neil: how are they doing for just basic staples like food or healthy running water? we hear better than two million ukrainians are without either right now? >> depends on the part of ukraine, you're right on the eastern side of ukraine.

they're eating snow to get water. it is pretty dire in some of the cities like mariupol. on the western side they're still able to get some basics though. neil: for your people helping out, trying to help people out there, do they ever get a sense of the dimensions of this horror, now that president biden said what is going on there is genocide? clear targeting of civilians, those, you know, trying to get that aid to ukrainians, the helpers become in need of help, right? does it pull them back? does it concern them? >> absolutely. we, i was meeting with one of my employees who had diabetes yesterday. he was running out of insulin. so my family and i upgraded him from running out of insulin to artificial pan pancreas and

other talking about ukraine and we shared together, one-year-old boy, what they placed on one-year-old boy. he has a 2-year-old daughter. he was in tears thinking about this happening to his daughter. neil: i can see that. andy, you're a special kind of human being. i know you don't like to take a bow yourself in the effort you're leading but doing a heck of a lot of good. andy kurtzig. just answer, founder, ceo. saw a problem. i will address that problem. we have a lot more coming up including right now now only extension of the mask requirement on airplanes and in airports, for at least another 15 days, but philadelphia reinstated indoor masks for, well, we don't know how many days. after this. happiness. or confidence. but you can invest in them. at t. rowe price

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♪. neil: all right, you will have

to keep masking up a little longer than we thought would be the case when you're on a jet or when you're at an airport or transit station. the u.s. extended the mask mandate from april 18th to at least may 3rd. philadelphia the first major american city at the same time to reinstate indoor mask mandates. there are a lot of places in a lot of cities including broadway shows in manhattan and movie theaters you still have to wear masks as well. jeff flock is following all of these developments in the city of brotherly love. in the city of philadelphia. jeff? reporter: they don't love this, neil. not going big at all. i'm on restaurant row here, sampson street in philly. all the people that own businesses here not thrilled. that is willie, we've known for many years. he is a big fan of the fox business network. he ownses the 1518 bar and grill. he says this is a bunch of baloney. take you inside of the oyster house one of the preeminent food

restaurants in the city. sam mink, third generation in the restaurant business. the mask mandate you say? >> we're not for it at this point. reporter: you're not, by the way a covid denier, a mask recuser, but you think at this point it is kind of crazy? >> no. i believe covid is serious. i believe at this point hospitalizations are at all-time low we should allow people to make choices to make themselves feel safe. reporter: case counts too, take a look at the numbers, neil. you were in the thousands, almost 4,000 in january. back at that point, sure, masks make sense. >> yeah. reporter: now dropped down to like 140. >> absolutely. in in january it was very challenging. mask mandates we believed. vaccine mandates. most people in philadelphia are vaccinated, client till, hospitalizations at a all-time low we feel there should not be a mask mandate at this point.

reporter: neil, as we looked around this famed restaurant in philadelphia, look at the numbers on people, just in the nation. appetite for masks is really fallen off. back in january people said yeah, it made sense. right now? >> absolutely. people had no problem wearing masks throughout the worst of the pandemic. people didn't have a problem showing their vaccination cards when they dined in here december and january, during the worst of the omicron. but people are definitely over wearing the mask. it is really challenging for restaurant to be the covid police. reporter: you say you will not do it at this time. if people come in refuse to wear a mask, you will not throw them out? >> we will ask people to wear a mask, because senate mandate. we won't throw anybody out if they do not wear a mask. i will not turn away any business. reporter: neil, as i said, i broke something on live television, how about that? third generation that is sam's grandfather. that is sam's father right

there. and that is a little boy is sam, eating oysters at the oyster house in philadelphia and, i don't know if you san see this. i just broke, can you see that, mark? i just broke the toothpicks. put that on the tab for the fox business network. sorry. neil: like we'll approve that expense report. jeff, thank you very, very much, my friend. that's wild. so many generations doing the same thing. i wonder if that proprietor's dad, granddad, something like covid almost stopping entire restaurant industry, but nationally, right in its tracks. a little angst. incredible. elon musk takes a 10% stake in twitter. going on the board, not going on the board. well the first lawsuit has been filed. not over his stake. not over whether he sits on the board. but the timing of his purchases after this.

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♪. neil: well the first lawsuit filed against elon musk over timing of disclosing that big stake he had acquired over the course of months we're told in twitter. let's get the latest from kelly o'grady in los angeles.

kelly. reporter: good to see you, neil. yeah, we have a twitter tantrum on our hands. elon musk is facing pushback from the establishment inside of the social media giant. not only are twitter employees voicing their concerns about the influence he will wield as the company's largest shareholder, but one share holder is taking legal action. he is proposing a class-action suit arguing the billionaire saved 143 million by purchasing more shares after failing to disclose his stake to the sec by the deadline. with the stock jumping 27% after the tardy filing the plaintiff claims shareholders lost money here. now the suit stating, quote, plaintiff in the class would not have sold twitter securities at the price sold or at all if they had been aware that the market prices had been artificially and falsely deflated by defendant's misleading statements. now both twitter and musk declined to comment when we reached out but some legal experts argue this suit does have legs. this comes with news of chaos inside of twitter headquarters.

reports that employees are reeling over musk's new equity, and are super stressed about the overhaul that could come with it. whiplash of musk declining a board seat made some not able to enjoy the company's planned day of rest on monday. one employee tweeted a rant, commenting quote, musk's immediate chilling effect bothered me significantly and that twitter's culture went silent because of his minions attacking employees. now all of as the head of musk's highly anticipated interview with the ted talk founder tomorrow. anderson tweeted an open call for questions but the question on everyone's mind is of course about that controversial board seat. by turning that down, musk is free to pursue a hostile take over should he wish. i'm grabbing the popcorn, neil. neil: can't blame you. this will go on. kelly o'grady on that. reaction from susan li, ray wang, kind enough to rejoin us. ray, i'm sure they're are going to be more such suits.

everyone wonders, when was he acquiring all of this stuff? should we have known about it? i don't know the specific rules and regulations on this. everything seemed to be on the up and up but what do you make of it? >> well, it is 13-d and 13-g. i think those are the regulations he has to worry about. it is about disclosure rules once you get 5% of ownership. you have to file. he missed the deadline. i don't think he cared. that is the challenge. what you have to do is think about how you fix that. his challenge, is he under attack from all different sides. he will be under attack for almost everything as he is going after twitter. i think that is where he has got to be careful. he is not invincible but definitely has a lot of force behind him. neil: susan, he has been slapped around by the sec in the past about a loose tongue, saying more than he should be saying. he has been fined. i don't know where this goes but i would think twitter investors would prefer that he not be on

the board anyway. he could be more helpful to them, forcing some changes than he could if he served on the board and had restrictions all of that. how do you think this sorts out? >> you know i'm a capitalist at heart. i think all of us are. just getting back to this lawsuit, would there be a 30% rally if elon musk didn't disclose he had a twitter stake? so everybody wins in all of this. when he creates $12 billion in value by spending his own money by the way, two billion dollars worth, he saved $150 million, i don't think that he entered into his calculus when you are worth $200 billion. i think this is opportunistic, this lawsuit. there has been back and forth between the sec, elon musk, obviously love lost because of that 2018 tweet of funding secured. neil: yeah, yeah. >> this class-action lawsuit from a person who doesn't seem that particularly hot on elon musk joining the board or owning a big stake in the company. neil: i don't know the details on it. but, ray, one of the things that

struck me here, not only the fact that twitter is doing fine, thank you. technology stocks doing very, very well. i was you know, reading earlier in the show how markets hold their own. i was discussing with susan, in the face of higher interest rates. >> yeah. neil: but it is interesting, technology stocks by and large do not. of course the big, big names. if you think about it, they're kind of a recent multidecade experience, a specialty. going back comparing let's say to the '70s, '60s, probably isn't a fair comparison but do you think, way, in a higher rate environment that tends to disproportionately hit technology stocks, it can weather this, they can weather this? >> i think they will be fine, right? their biggest cost is really the cost of labor. so while they can attract tech workers in the right places they will be fine. folks are working from anywhere. most tech companies hire from all different regions around the world, all in the u.s.

they will manage that, digital giants. their products, their services, their outcomes, there is no physical goods. they're all growing 20 to 30% a year. we call them ton of stocks, microsoft, apple, tesla, amazon, nvidia, alphabet, they are the ones that will weather this. they have the ability to get scale. that is what matters in this business. also being able to forecast quarter to quarter growth. neil: used to be itt, ibm, quickly, susan names change, names change. >> ibm, wow, big blue. that is a 1980s goodie there. we were talking about tech, inflation hedge. people say technology will weather this better than most because it can raise prices. only they like google announcing nine 1/2 billion dollars to invest in the u.s. neil: true. not too shabby. that is a lot of money to fork out for desks. not just desks by the way. guys, thank you very, very much. we're more than holding our own right here.

we'll kind of detail the wholesale inflation report. why some are saying it will keep this inflation argument going for bite some time. quite some time. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

♪ ♪ gotta blame it on something, blame it on the rain -- ♪ that was falling and falling. ♪ blame it on the stars that shined at night. ♪ whatever you do, don't put -- neil: i know the president has

blamed a lot of this on vladimir putin, you know, and i get that. but he must if take some responsibility for some of this. the war, i can see. you guys seem to be blaming everyone but yourselves for even a teeny if part of this. >> well, i don't think that's accurate at all. i mean, i think -- neil: when putin -- >> wait a second. neil: it's the war -- >> let me respond. hold on. neil: i never hear, hey, some of this is on me, but i watch about to fix it. >> first of all, march inflation up 1.2. that's for the month, that's elevated. 70% of that is energy costs. over 60% is gas alone. neil: all right. i don't know if milli vanilli would have said blame it on putin, but this inflation thing, it's fair to, you know, spread the blame out, what's going on with the war, the comeback we a had going from the economy in park with covid to one that was going to move so demand picked

up, you know, we can get all that. but les got to be some responsibility on the part of the white house here to acknowledge at least some, some, you know, role in this runup in prices that was quite pronounced even before the first shots were fired in ukraine. anyway, the reaction right now to all of this and now a wholesale inflation report that, again, continues what we saw on the roadway -- retail front, a multidecade high in the runup in prices. edward lawrence are at the white house with all of that. >> reporter: that was a great interview you did on pulling back the veil on how the administration sees inflation going forward here. the second day in a row with bad inflation news, and the president has no public appearances on his schedule. we have not been able to ask him direct questions about those reports over the past two days. sod today the producer price index came many at a record high since they've been keeping this data. that was back in 2010. 11.2%, you see it there.

now, republicans like senator kevin kramer saying it's time to make tough decisions and reverse course on some energy policies. >> every now and then when you have a really bad cancer, you need to cut it out. you can't just simply hope it goes away over the course of time. so you have to have on top of that, of course, you have an administration and a democratic party that just keeps -- it's like joe biden showed up at the west wing and said the oval office is on fire, get some gasoline quickly, we'll try to put it out. >> reporter: white house solutions so far have been sop gap -- stopgap measures, allowing e-15 ethanol to be sold through mid september. everyone in the administration seems to be blaming something else for flakes. listen to this. >> putin's iasionf of o uaikr dsve dsp up ga a a f a a pr alles alles allesvehe wld >>he t t imp itsacfachehehede pp syy chaha how tt' t t impa d,ararefctef pdecdes- c- c>>ig s

ansuanlysusss.ue r: a as y jtustust taed a tre'see'sn no siisis fmro thihi lededed tny o thelaon policieoc that wthe' seeing rig now. n. ck you. you pollpo but thiss o oha ott h a l prettyprtronprggg plu americans who are buying that and saying, well, maybe it is the oil companies, maybe it is vladimir putin. so i guess the more often you say something, the more it becomes reality. >> reporter: and that's been the pattern of white house, you just say it over and over and over again or and hopefully it becomes true. we'll have to see where the polls end up because that's ultimately the public perception of where the blame will lie. we'll have to the see how this all sorts out. but as of right now, the message is, hey, let's pin this on russian president vladimir

putin. neil: i'm going to do that with the whole weight thing. i don't even eat, i exercise like a beast. [laughter] all right, edward, you're the best, my friend. edrd -- edward lawrence. ken land go took an opportunity with me yesterday, by the way, started in the years of double-digit inflation, to i say that a president biden is no jimmy carter. in fact, he says he's worse. take a look at this. enter we have leadership today in america that isn't willing to admit when they're wrong. they made a terrible blunder here x now the price has got to be paid. we've exacerbated the problem. for example, the energy issue in america. we didn't have to be deficient like we are. hell, by now that pipe ryan would have been almost complete. and biden now saying he had nothing -- blaming the oil companies? this is a disgrace. i think he's worse than jimmy carter. neil: the great thing about

being a billionaire is you can set up your own home camera. you don't always have to be looking at it, but you can be enraged and get the point across. we got a lot of tweets and e-mails on his appearance: this 867 -- 86-year-old billionaire titan's view is we just immediate to start changing policies. steve forbes with us right now. forget about reliving the carter years, potentially we could have something worse than the carter years. what do you think of that? >> yeah, ken langone is absolutely right about the lost year. that's one thing about supply chains -- yes, they were disrupted. there are two kinds of inflation. one is monetary inflation, the other is nonif monetary. the nonmonetary came off the covid lockdowns, but this administration's made the recovery from that worse, not better, starting with energy and the 77 executive orders this guy's passed, president biden's passed, that'sed added $200

billion in regulatory costs. so they've made a bad situation worse. then you have the federal reserve creating mounds of money, biden wanted to send -- can spend more money, and the federal reserve monetized that by buying all those bonds. they have $1.7 trillion that they borrow each night from banks hoping that doesn't flood into the economy, money they created out of thin air. that's going to hit the economy soon enough. so in terms of the blame, all they have to do is looked in the mirror. they took a situation that was beginning to heal itself and made it infinitely worse. neil: all right. well, there goes my lunch. [laughter] steve, republicans are not without some responsibility here. i believe a lot of that big spending, and even precovid, started under president trump as well. there was a lot of excessive spending. you know, it was going on there as well. i understand what you're saying now after the fact, the pile-on here, but i do find a little suspect for republicans to gather around and say we're the

party of fiscal austerity. like me saying i'm the president of the national fitness program. me thinks not. your thoughts. >> well, in my eyes, you are -- [laughter] neil: no, but all i'm saying is each party does this, and i get it, the debt piles up, the spending piles up, but i'm wondering if in this case, you know, it's one thing for president biden to say i can't with blame -- be blamed for all of this. i agree, he should be taking responsibility for some of it, but republicans too, no? >> yeah, they did some spending, and they share part of the blame for it. the federal reserve started to knock down the dollar back in 2018, 2019. so they're -- they were starting to -- neil: if do you think the federal reserve's overdoing it now, steve? >> yes, and that's a real danger. they should not be setting interest rates. they should let the market set interest rates. already you've seen the mortgage market in anticipation go from

2.5% 30-year mortgage to 5, watch out. so the federal reserve does not know how to fight inflation. they think you do it by depressing the economy. oh, have a soft landing. usually it's a crash landing -- [inaudible conversations] neil: -- hike rates pretty aggressive, i think they're looking for a half-point hike in the may meeting, another in the june meeting. are they overdoing it? not enough? what do you think? >> they're doing it the wrong way. if they -- what they should do is put a ceiling on short-term rates and relate the markets -- leapt the markets set the rates. they're trying to control the price of money. they never get it right. the question is how much damage are they going to do. so the federal -- neil: it worked for paul volcker though, right? he was changing interest rates, hiking them one point at a time i. worked for him. >> well, by the time he came in we'd had 12 years of ever worsening inflation, and he felt, okay, we have to do

drastic measures now. and so we went into a recession, 10.5, 11% unemployment. we don't have to do that here. neil: all right. >> the quicker the fed acts, the less the disruptions. but the longer they delay like last year when powell wanted to be reappointed and and the dictates of the white house, we now have, as they say, a fine mess. neil: well, i'm too young to remember that late '70s, early '80s experiment. steve, always great talking to you. enjoyed talking to you back then, and all these decades later. steve forbes, thank you very much. he saw a lot of people with this pain at the pump what they're going through, and he's looking at it and seeing the lines outside gas stations, and he said, you know what? if i'm going to do something about this. he's very rich. he sells exotic cars. that's just part of his success, but he thought he'd share the loot, if you will, by buying 7,000 gallons of free gas. he could be considering it

again. ernie bach is his names, bach enterprises. good to see you. >> good to see you, neil. meehl medical school tell me how

neil: would you do this again, another gas program like this again? >> yes, i would -- neil: can you tell me when and where exactly? >> i'm thinking of tanks-giving. neil: there you go. of i see what you did there. you had a kind of shtick more this one -- >> april fuels. neil: brilliant. can we get anything to rhyme with arbor day? but it was beautiful. it was a very good way to play -- a lot of people, you're in the industry, so to speak, so what do you think about where we're going with this. >> it goes up and down, but i think it's going to be extremely difficult. neil: obviously, it's not affecting business -- if anything, the money you can make in it, how long do you think that continues? >> i don't know. you know, i've been guessing ever since this craziness started -- neil: well, you've had a pretty good financial record, so you're good at. >> i think, i think by the end of the second quarter of '23 we're going to land and see some

sort of normalcy. neil: so would it be a soft landing in. >> no, i think -- neil: the federal reserve -- >> i think it's going to be a off landing, and i think it's going to be different. i think you're still going to see shelves in the stores a little light. you're going to see gas and, of course, the chip problem that the manufacturers have right now with automotive, t t just starting to come around. neil: but it's huge. >> still an issue. neil: what do you think of the whole ev push? >> it's difficult also -- neil: how does that affect you? >> well, you have a tsunami of ev vehicles coming, and the u.s. is about 5%. and if you take tesla out, tesla's 50 of the ev market -- 50%. neil: do you think they're pushing that too much on us? >> absolutely. neil: yeah. >> yeah. who is going to buy? that's the question. i hope people buy them. you know, they're great -- neil: do you have any evs

yourself? >> no. i like, i'm more of a '67, '60s, '70s european performance vehicle. neil: well, there you go. you're in the right business, my friend. you have a big heart. ernie boch jr. said, look, i'm going to do something about this. there's a concept. did something about this. stay with us, you are watching fox business. you can't buy love. happiness. or confidence. but you can invest in them. at t. rowe price our strategic investing approach

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neil: all right, more on the hunt for that brooklyn train station shooter. in fact, they have a pretty good idea who they think it is, they just can't find him. bryan llenas with more in brooklyn are. bryan. >> reporter: hey, neil. we expect an update on this manhunt in about 40 minutes, 2:00. nypd will be are holding a press conference, a source telling fox news they have not had -- the suspect is not in custody, he was not found a body, so there's that. so we expect some sort of update. the prime suspect, frank james is his name, 62 years old. we don't have any word on potential motive yet, but there had been a series of youtube videos that were released reportedly by frank james. and in these videos you can see that he says he was diagnosed with a mental illness, he complains about homelessness,

new york city and mayor eric adams. he says he was entering, quote, danger zone and was, quote, full of hate, anger and bitterness. this as we're seeing new photos of frank james leaving the subway station. we don't know where these were taken exactly, but a law enforcement source tells me images are from after the attack leaving open the possibility that frank james may have rode the subway after the attack in part of his escape. that's one of hur -- our questions we'll have in this press conference. insides the n train police found expended ammo magazines, a glock-17 .9 mm semiautomatic handgun. frank james purchased that gun at a pawnshop many columbus, ohio, in 2011. and a senior law enforcement source also said that they're trying to track frank james based on his contacts in wisconsin and in philadelphia. remember, police found a key to a rental u-haul van which they

ended up finding just 5 miles away from the 36th street subway station where the attack happened. they were able to link that van to frank if james who rented it in philadelphia. an emergency alert was sent out to cell phones this morning pleading with the public to alert themthey see anyone or have any information in regards to the whereabouts of frank james, and that does include, neil, a $50,000 reward for anyone with information as we expect nypd to give us the latest in just about 40 minutes. neil: relentless reporting, my friend. nonstop. thank you very much. bryan llenas in brooklyn with the latest. speaking of which, we're looking at a new york police department presser planned for 2 p.m., about 40 minutes from now. we'll keep you posted on that. in the meantime the, edward dares here, the former -- davis here, former boss police commissioner. commissioner, always good to have you. i'm curiouses what you make of where this guy could be.

has he long left new york? is he still around? what does your gut tell you? >> well, thank you, neil. it's good to see you. these things are always very difficult. there's an urgent manhunt. this is a man who's proved that he has no hesitation to hurt and shoot people, so the pressure on the officials to run him down is extremely tense right now. i can tell you in situations like this there's probably just a couple of scenarios. one is that he's on the run, and every police officer in the united states is looking for this guy right now whether he's driving a cruiser in the neighborhood many or inner city or a state troop or out on the highway. they're getting updated and photos and is watching everybody that they come in contact with. and the other possibility is sometimes people commit suicide. if he disappears for a long period of time and no one's able to find him, that's always a possibility. but the worst possible point is

something that happened here in boss boston which is the suspect continues his desire to attack, builds new devices, arms himself with more weapons and ammunition and goes out in search of another target x. if that's why there's more protection around the mayor in new york city, and i'm sure that's the case for other people he's made reference to in his diatribes on youtube. neil: yeah. you know, i was thinking of you as well, ed, during the whole boston bombing incident from the if tsarnaev if brothers. there's a great deal of anger in this city about the surveillance cameras out at the brooklyn train station. but if i remember correct wily in that crisis you were dealing with, there were plenty of cameras up top, right? and plenty of opportunities, in retrospect, to monitor the tsarnaev brothers at the time.

and i'm sure authorities are piecing together what cameras were available and working and surveilling right after this incident. and culling all that together. what do you think? >> oh, there's no question. cameras have become the first order of business in any investigation that we do now. there used to be other protocols, interviewing people -- neil: right. >> right now everything takes a second seat to checking on what cameras are available, what photos and images you can get on a suspect. and the police departments have much better capacitied to do that now, technical capacity -- neil: but, and i want to give you a compliment here, commissioner, because you were the first to say, all right, all these cameras are out there, they could be outside stores, not necessarily government cameras, they could just be monoodorring. let's cull through this, and it ended up providing a gold mine of information, tracking the brothers not only before through the course of the day, but after

the explosions themselves. that was a rich database. and i'm sure many new york they have the same thing -- in new york they have the same thing. >> oh, yes. new york has been a leading force in data collection, and they have terabytes of information that they have captured. it can get unpopular, you know, at times when there's nothing happening. but, boy, when you have a situation like this and people are afraid and you have somebody that could very well be planning to kill more people, then it -- the importance of this and the need for these type of systems is clear on its face. neil: this kind of incident gives people pause, commissioner, about going underground period, going into a subway car. i ask authorities like yourself for advice often times. what do you tell people?

because you're very vulnerable once those subway cars close are. >> yes, you are. you know, we do this in my business all the time, we teach people to have a plan, a plan to escape, a plan for an option of exit, a plan to deal with something, you know, the hide -- run, hide, fight model. it's so true. but running and hiding is not an option inside a train. and and so you immediate to be able to move -- need to be able to move quickly and fight in a situation like that. it's not a good option, it's not something we like to tell people. but it sometimes is the only thing that you can do. neil: thank you very much, ed edward davis, the former boston police commissioner, one of the first to say let's see what we have before us, the technology we have right before us that can track down the guys who perpetrated this incident. it that has now become common in horrific incidences because,

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neil: you know, i don't know if you saw this, the look of a marvel movie that saw many leaders at the same time in the same place, i'm talking about presidents of list wane a ya, poland and latvia, estonia, nato members, all, rallying around president zelenskyy today in kyiv, ukraine, just a few days after boris johnson of great britain did is -- the same thing. kyiv serious weighing in on thin on this. each within of those guys put themselves at grave risk as did boris johnson. they were all promising more support. i'm just wondering where this is going because now we're in a few

phase of the war that could be pretty brutal. what do you think? >> i think you're definitely right, this new phase of the war could be very brutal, the russians are going to be able to have better supply lines, heavy a artillery as they bombard the donbas. that was the methods they used aleppo in syria. i think one of the goals though for putin is to -- he really wants to see sort of the event u. separated from the united states, and i think he would have loved to have see everybody not stay together and this show by poland, latvia, lithuania, estonia and the recent overtures from finland and sweden talking about joining nato is really going counter to what he wants. it's an interesting development. neil: what do you make of vladimir putin talking more, publicly, about all of this saying that, you know, all of

these so-called human rights and now genocide arguments are without merit, that a lot of the claims that he's deliberate lid targeting civilians in bucha and elsewhere are all fake? says that peace talks are really at a dead end. what is he doing? what do you think he's up to? >> i think that he's -- they always use disinformation. so the russians are very good at he's not going to sit up and admit any of these crimes that are happening. les an interesting characteristic too amongst the russian i heats -- elites, vladimir putin, of course, amongst the top of them. they would often -- they would rather be hated and noticed than liked and forgotten. so it's -- he's on a religious sort of quest with this, you know? some interesting things to watch as well are some upcoming dates. may 9th is victory day in russia. they traditionally hold very big

military demonstrations to celebrate the end of world war ii or and and their have victory. it's going to be real interesting how this new assault, the few phase of -- new phase of the war goes and how this lines up with may 9th and what comes out of russia that and vladimir putin. neil: you know, it's important to talk to you, dave, because i want to get your thoughts on how it is that vladimir putin still enjoys, i assume he enjoys support at home for this. it could be, you know, a matter of how much the russian people really know about what's going on, but he still has it. or does he? what do you think? >> i i think he absolutely still has it. it's very -- sometimes we mirror image or we try and bolster our own side of the argument, and in the case of vladimir putin when you look at russia, he has maintained power in a kleptocratic, autocratic,

vicious environment for a long -- decades and decades. in doing that, you have to be very strong and you have to know where the bodies are buried and you have to know what leverage to pull. he runs that place with a lot of fear, and he uses purge mechanisms that, you know, similar to xi in china. so he, i think, still enjoys a lot of support either through genuine support of the people backing the russia is religious sort of narrative or out of fear as well he maintains that support. neil: to -- manager's keeping him there -- something's keeping him there. dave sears, you do not mess with dave can. that's probably an understatement. all right. probably an understatement to say these are interesting times for the auto industry, so what better time to showcase and strut your best stuff than at the annual yule new york auto show. it's on right now, and that's where grady trimble is as we

speak. grade -- grady. >> reporter: hey, neil. there are new vehicles as far as the eye can see here including electrics, but if you've been in the market for a new car lately, you might have gotten some sticker shock. coming up, we'll tell you when prices could come down. that's next. who's on it with jardiance? we're 25 million prescriptions strong. we're managing type 2 diabetes... ...and heart risk. we're working up a sweat before coffee. and saying, “no thanks...” ...to a boston cream.

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♪ neil: all right, for the first time since the pandemic, the new york auto show is on. it's a big deal, very cool thing to see in the javits center, a huge locale where they have of the latest and greatest and sometimes the coolest stuff on four wheels for everyone to see. grady trimbleing is there, an enviable assignment. grady, what does it look like there the? >> reporter: neil, it's basically back to normal, i would say. there might be fewer big debuts in automakers than in previous years, but it feels normal. not a lot of masks around, people milling about checking out all the cool vehicles like the big buzz this year is

hybrids and all-electric vehicles. this happens to be a kia so remember toe. it's a high are bid. we've got the new kia ev-6, and standing next to it is the coo of kia america. i want to talk about electric vehicles, but first, let's talk about pricing in yen for vehicles, not just electric. heavy gone way up, about 12, 13% in the last year largely because of the microchip shortage, supply chain issues. where's things looking going forward? when are prices going to normalize? >> well, i think it's going to be quite a while because there's two dynamic. there's demand full inflation and cost push inflation going on now. and the whole industry's capacity can is constrained. people still want their cars. if we could catch up today, it would take a year. so i think it's going to be a year or more. >> reporter: and it's interesting when you look at the sales numbers because sales did fall about 18% in the first

quarter. but to your point, that's not because -- >> there's just not enough vehicles, absolutely. >> reporter: there is a lot of interest in electric vehicles specifically. this is your ev6. tell us about how you, you know, kia and some other automakers are trying to make electric vehicles that are more accessible because right now the average transaction price is sort of in the luxury range for electrics. >> absolutely. so what we're trying to do is democratize electrified vehicles, and the ev6 is a car that that's priced for normal people. >> reporter: starting price? if around 40, right? >> yeah. which is a little more normal. at the same time, it's available everywhere with. if so there's people many cleveland that bayh these cars, people in florida that buy these cars. we're not restricting them, so they're all over the country. >> reporter: and, neil, that's been the big change at the auto shows and specifically which

hasn't had a car since before the pandemic, these electrics. it used to be there were one or two, now just about every major automake per has their electric vehicle here at the show and, in some cases, multiple evs. neil: you didn't hear from it me, grady, but it's going to be big. you can pass that on to whom whomever you wish. >> reporter: they're on to something. neil: thank you very much. or on something. only 7% of cars sold are of the ev variety, and they want us to be all electric in a few years. can you go from 7% to 100% in a few years? i don't know. we'll have more after this. ♪

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neil: all right. we've been doing this story in the first hour over the timing in the announcement of elon miss being's acquiring -- musk's acquiring ample stake in twitter. it occurred over some months here, but one stockholder suing him toddies closing the time limits of it. charlie gasparino's been following that breaking news and every detail about it. now, the thrust of this suit is what? >> well, let's just back up. that he didn't file the right forms and that he somehow

manipulated, theoretically, allegedly, twitter's stock by not informing the public in a timely manner when he was buying the stock. there was some sort of delay -- neil: did he buy it in waves? >> he bought it apparently before he filed. that's what we do know. here's what this thing gets really nasty, and we should point out shares of twitter are up. shares of tesla, i think, took a hit on the news we're going to break right now which is both the doj and sec are scrutinizing this entire manner. we're getting this from lawyers -- someone told me it bounced off its highs when it first hit the tape. so they're clearly monitoring and scrutinizing this entire issue, whether he filed the right forms, whether there's a stock manipulation case here, whether it's, whether, you know, he's making public statements that he probably shouldn't make -- neil: that would not be the first time, by the way. >> he already has to deal with the sec, a settlement agreement

with the sec for making that statement that he was going to bring tesla public at 420 for some reason which stands for marijuana, something that you would know. why is that? [laughter] neil: i was going to ask you. of. [laughter] patiently -- >> there's nothing wrong with marijuana. neil: yeah, here and there. >> i'm just saying, i'm open to it. at any event, what we do the know is that he's stirred up a regulatory hornets' nest. i'm getting this from those who deal with him, telling myself and my producer, ellie, is that they are clearly scrutinizing all these issues. let's delineate the worst stuff. the class action suit, that stuff happens all the time and probably won't go anywhere. the doj, sec stuff, doj has a much higher bar to bring a case. it has to be criminal and has to have clear intent.

the notion of intent for sec is a lot smaller. what are the potential cases? was he manipulating the stock. just so you know, really hard case to bring, okay? i don't know many stock manipulation cases. neil: didn't this guy make money? you could make the argument he made money -- >> is he made money. neil: are you arguing that he could have made more? >> well, or that he manipulated the stock up. neil: e oh, i see. okay. >> listen, there's a lot of avenues they could go. they're all incredibly difficult cases because you have to prove intent, either criminal intent -- neil: what's the biggest fine if they had their way? $150 million or something? >> yeah, probably. i'm trying to think how much did milliken pay the sec. it was a settlement agreement -- neil: this isn't like that. >> it was something like $100 million. well, i hate to say it, if you go back, it was pretty -- i looked back and they didn't get,

it was parking and these very esoteric things. if. neil: absolutely. all right. >> but musk, you know, listen, if they bring a manipulation case, sky's the limit. i think the one easy case they could bring is filing the wrong forms, and he'll play that with chump change out of his pocket. neil: a rounding error. like you, a rounding error -- >> i'm round, i guess maybe. neil: i'm round. i'm an editor of round. charlie gasparino, thank you very much. i want to go to jason furman now, former obama economic council chairman, harvard professor, much, much more. a great piece in the "wall street journal"ed today stating the obvious. obviously, prices are running up, the but the more they keep running up, the more it's going to hurt the wage situation. jason, good to have you. i just want to go to the end of your column in which you say in addition to spurring inflation

that outpaces wage growth moving from a hot economy to an overheated economy can also threaten the stability of job growth itself. you could argue we're right there now. >> absolutely, neil. look, i'm someone that believes in a low unemployment rate. i like the idea of running the economy hot. but, boy, did we throw every log on the fire at once, you know, and almost start to burn the house down, and that's not a good way to go about it. neil: so, you know, larry summers has been concerned, former treasury secretary for bill clinton, and obviously this is the danger now. he's held back from staying -- saying whether this will lead to a carter-type recession, but do you see that? >> i hope not, neil. i mean, it's hard to see how we go are from where we are right now, which is 500,000 jobs a month and very strong demand, to a recession. the thing the fed's trying to do is cool down demand right now. there's so much extra demand out

there that there's a lot of room to do that without causing a recession. so i'm not super bearish on the economy in that respect, i'm just more worried about what the inflation means for people's real wages. neil: we do know they're running about the best clip we've seen in decades. unfortunately, the prices for what people rely on from food, gas, etc., are going up at a much faster rate. so the real situation is just reverse. normally, that leads to a slowdown, and at the worst it'll lead to a recession. the federal reserve gets involved, we're told the next two hikes could be of the half-point variety. does that sink the economy, that alone? >> neil, i did a lot of -- i think there's a lot of room to raise interest rates, to raise them pretty quickly without sinking the economy. now, my worry is that a year from now the fed's raised rates

to 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5%, and that's still not enough to get flakes out. do they go a whole lot further, does that risk inflation. so this is a conversation you and i should have nine months from now about this risk, about what the fed's going to do. but the first part of what they're doing, very well expected, and they're just moving interest rates to neutral. i'm not worried about the first if phase here. neil: so i'd like to end it with a personal question, jason. the administration has been criticized for not taking any responsibility for the inflation we're seeing when, in fact, they could take a bow. the boom in the economy coming out of park from covid, we've got a boom on our hands, and we've got whatever this is, 8, 9 months in a row of 400,000 new jobs added to the economy each and every month. but instead they deny what's obvious when they could actually frame it in a better way. do you think they botched the response to this. >> look, i don't give message advice to them --

neil: go ahead. >> i think it's important to be able to simultaneously tell two stories, both of which are true. we're seeing phenomenally strong job growth, and we're seeing terrible inflation. and one of those is a good thing, one of those is not a good thing. and everyone needs to address both of hem. neil: so when ken langone, the home depot founder who started his company in the midst of the carter year, says that president biden is worse than president carter, what did you think of that? >> i don't think that makes a whole lot of sense. i mean, president biden came in and, you know, a pretty tricky economic situation. most of the recovery we've seen is because people learning to live with the virus better and the vaccines, but i think it was important to pass some things, overshot mark some, but there's a lot of time to course correct. neil: okay, god it. i urge all of you, read his column today. it does put it into perspective without all the politicization. g to be a situation.

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neil: here is charles. charles? charles: neil, thank you very much. good afternoon, i'm charles payne. this is "making money" and breaking right now, record shattering producer price not derailing the stock market. in fact buyers determined to take to zelda after days of disappointment and major setbacks but investors are torn. do you bottom fish or stay in defensive sectors? do you stay in stocks or go to commodities? here's the thing, pendulum is shifting. it is going back to fomo. we got you covered. the federal reserve is determined to crush the stock