the hog bush wild in france will be fine just like the college educated folks in america that keep getting big chunks of taxpayer money. they'll be able to say at their funeral, i had no debt but you know what, will anyone admit that working slobs without sheep skins for the ones that paid it a. it's a damn shame and we need to change it soon. lauren similar simonetti in foz claman. lauren: thank you, charles. the fed heads wasted no time chimes in from outwest, james bull l administered saying -- bullard saying inflation will continue and many want to hear if from the fed chair himself and that comes at 10:00 a.m. eastern time when james powell speaks himself and he'll set the tone for the fed's next meeting

in late september. look, if gdp is any indication, things might be looking a little bit better. second quarter growth, it's still contracted but much less than the data first showed. as you can see there falling 6% now but big name companies across sectors report earnings and making forecasts not optimistic. peloton, sales force, all cut estimates or give very tepid ones and less demand come in as consumers pull back amid high inflation and a slowing economy. between growth scares and earnings scares, will we see a dove or hawk take flight tomorrow? we ask our floor show traders, joe flynn and thomas hays. tom, let me begin with you. in the dove or hawk camp for mr? the market is up and thinks he might be a dove because it's pricing in that the fed cuts

rates next year. what do you say? >> yeah, my bet, lauren, is a continuation of job owning. talk hawkish, act doveish. bring down inflation expectation but don't tighten more than you have to. as we saw with the quantitative tightening schedule, they'd completed one-third expected by this time. it's like the hotel california, you can check in but can never leave and we saw from the ecb, they've had to start a facility to buy periphery bonds as hedge funds are shorting italian bonds at highest pace since 2008. they want to move but don't want to move too much, and we heard from two fed presidents ester george saying policies are long and variable and fed president harker said 86 hikes since 1983 and 75 of those were below 50 basis points and 75 basis points is unusual but 50 basis points is substantial. he's setting the table, 75 is

probably not going to be the case. we got to watch the cpi numbers, with we have to watch the ppi numbers and we have to watch the jobs report more than we have to watch jackson hole moving forward in september. lauren: more than jackson hole. phil, let me bring you in here. this is mission impossible for jay powell and the fed; right. 50, 75, it doesn't matter. they're having critics either way. >> he does. you know, i think tom hit it on the head. i think he's a dove hawk or a hawk dove. i mean, can you mix the two? it's like a new character. new superhero or something. lauren: hold on, phil. this is the man who said inflation was transient a year ago this month. come on. a superhero. >> i know. he just changes his uniform. remember then they change the definition of trans-yet. transient. if it doesn't work out, just change the wordage. no, listen, i think the markets done the heavy lifting for him. the damage has been done; right. the market has been fearful, maybe too fearful of the fed

being way aggressive. you know, we're hearing points and points and a half a few months ago. and i think if you look at what -- the yield curve, the work's done so i don't see any advantage for mr. powell to come off, you know, too hawkish and real tough on inflation at this point. besides, we have had a drop in energy prices and still have an inflation problem and the fed can't solve it; right, they can't build factories or drilling for oil. i wish they could. maybe they'd start doing it but, you know, there's only so much they can co. i think he'll be hawkish, but i do think this, i think the market has been too negative, and i think we could see a short squeeze. look at all the earnings and we're seeing a companies that were making so much money during the pandemic. there's facing challenges, a lot of them are still going to make a heck of a lot of money, but we'll see a rotation, i think, back away from the high-flying tech stocks into, you know, more traditional stocks, and i think

we're seeing that. i think if you look at earnings and income at these companies, they're still making a lot based on their stock price where you look at oil companies, for example, they're undervalued in comparison. you'll see a rotation but the overall market i think will do great. lauren: but speaking of oil companies, phil, they are making a lot of money because the prices. >> they are, yeah. lauren:-- they've gone up pretty steadily. phil made a lot of good points, tom, everybody is holding up. technically we're in a recession but people are like, what recession. everybody is doing okay. is the fed going to force unemployment up and the job market to really turn before they're done? >> well, i think we're going to see that on a lag basis, but i also think phil was spot on because if you look, you know, markets will continue to do well because managers were caught

flat footed and we've been constructive on the show since the june lows and most managers miss it had and don't believe it. they're caught off sides and if you look at bank of america most recent survey from last week, they have cash levels at the same levels as the great financial crisis lows in 2009 and pandemic lows and the pain trade is higher even if we consolidate the gains from june a bit before taking the next leg higher. my bet is talk hawkish and act doveish and we go higher than a little c consolidation. lauren: talk hawkish and act doveish. >> i want a t-shirt that says that. lauren: someone has to design the superhero cape for you with that logo. can you explain to me then, phil, if you look at performance of different sectors of the economy today, investors are obviously feeling good. they're selling defense; right. utilities are completely flat and moments ago staples were the only sector that was done and

like slightly. >> right. you know, i think what we're seeing here is people fear of missing out. getting back into the stock market here a little bit. i think you're seeing that and this rotation but, you know, i think you get back to the overall situation where we're at right now. where are we going to be six months from now, a year from now. the one positive thing about a transparent fed, you know, we pretty much know that rates are going up, and i think a lot of businesses have already adjusted to that, and that's why the stocks are performing pretty darn well. lauren: how much are they going up, tom, because the fed's bull bullard who's been the biggest hawk of them all, he sees the rate at 3, 75 bit end of the year. >> i'll take the under on that and they parade out boll bullarn

they want it to raise up and powell comes out a bit doveish tomorrow and they have six speakers on monday and tuesday saying, no, we're really serious about inflation and the market won't buy it and they'll push higher. that's really going to be the name of the game. the big joke is that the most hated sector in the world right now is the best performer today in chinese stocks, which has been a train reck and everyone is buying them on the hopes of "the wall street journal" exclusive that an audit deal with the pcaob will be happening where our regulators can go to hong kong and see all the audit working papers and non-soes can stay listed on the stock exchange and it's a huge boom if accurate and that's the best performer today. lauren: also all this stimulus coming out of the chinese central bank, which is the opposite of what we're doing here; right. it's completely different story. >> exactly, lauren. lauren: it's a completely different economy, they're locked down with covid and we're wide open but you get the point. tom hays, phil flynn, great to

talk to you guys today. >> thank you. lauren: california is expected to become the first state in the country to formally ban the sale of gas powered vehicles. golden state air regulators about to vote on stringent rules to ban the sale of gasoline cars by the year 2035. the move will drastically accelerate the transition to electric vehicles but comes at a time when ev prices are higher than gas powered cars, but they're all expensive. yesterday liz claman asked the general motor ceo mary barra when the type will hit both parodies. >> as battery powered comes online, we have a strong partnership with lg energy solution, so as we do that, that's going to be a opportunity, the scale that we have from altium because in 2018, we started working on a dedicated ev platform that can scale from a chevrolet equinox

to a super truck like the hummer or bright drop, the electric light vehicle. looking at that scale, we believe we'll get to parody in the latter part of this decade. lauren: joining us now from los angeles, is fox weather's max gorman. max, good to see you. when the rubber meets the road, what does this mean you can't buy a gas powered car in 2035 in california? >> yeah, first we're going to talk about what it doesn't mean. this new rule won't mean you can't drive gas powered cars or buy used ones. just the sale of new trucks, cars and suvs that only run on gas no longer allowed in the state past 2035. one fifth of the vehicles allowed to be plug in hybrids that run on gas and electric. electric vehicle sales are increasing, the move is expected to speed up the transition to electric and away from gas-powered cars. california is a massive vehicle market as we all know and the inureslations will likely speed up the development of electric and alternative energy line ups.

other states pledged to follow california's lead. the reason that the california resources board is making this move is that tail pipe emissions are a big contributor to air pollution and greenhouse gases that are causing climate change. environmental groups are cheering the elimination of new gas powered vehicle sales but some say the state isn't being aggressive enough. >> rule is definitely a step in the right direction, but it's a missed opportunity because it doesn't match the scale and the urgency of the climate crisis. vehicles are the single largest contributor to greenhouse gases and they're a big part of the reason california's facing severe wild fires, water shortages, and megadroughts. vehicles are the low hanging fruit to electrify and deliver the environmental protections the state needs. >> while some think these changes aren't coming fast enough, others believe the state is actually acting too quickly. there are concerns that california's power grid isn't ready for all the new electric vehicles and there isn't enough charging infrastructure in rural

areas. we spoke with the conservative coalition for climate solutions and while the group supports electric vehicles and action to combat climate issues, they think the state is unfairly picking winners and losers in the free market. >> if you're worried about pollution, you know, tail pipe emissions or something like that, then set a standard and let the market determine what that standard ultimately might be rather than outright ban a specific vehicle or technology. >> now, the federal government will still have to give the okay to the plan though. the biden administration is likely to do that. that'll pave the way to a day when you won't be able to walk into a car dealership in california and purchases a brand new gasoline powered car. back to you. lauren: california could be the trend setter. max gorden, thank you very much. >> thank you. lauren: the game of thrones free thronesprequel house of the dran

premiered on sunday and crashed the hbo max app. check the big board, we have about 50 minutes left in the session. the dow is solidly higher, up 124 points and the other markets up as well. "claman countdown" coming right back. ♪

millions have made the switch from the big three to xfinity mobile. that means millions are saving hundreds a year on their wireless bill. and all of those millions are on the nation's most reliable 5g network and most recommended wireless carrier. that's a whole lot of happy campers out there. and it's never too late to join them. get $450 off any new purchase of an eligible samsung device with xfinity mobile. or add a line to your plan today at xfinitymobile.com

lauren: all right, this week's premier of the game of throne's prequel house of the dragon was the largest premier in the history of hbo. 10 million people tuned in. it makes sense why more and more companies trying to get their

foot or entire leg in the media subscription store. zora is a subscription management company and purchasing zepher a pay wall software stater up to works with big publishers and clients and you're looking at some now for $44 million. it is ceo joins us now on a fox business exclusive. congratulations on the purchase. if the game is all about streaming, why is netflix losing subscribers and hbo max, despite the success of the house of the dragon cutting programming? >> i think a few months ago you heard a lot of noise about whether streaming is oversaturated, how many services can we have, but if you look at what's going on and how disney has been able to overtake netflix in subscriber count or outside of streaming and look at new york sometimes and news content space, breaking 10 million subscribers, it's clear there's no great unsubscribe going on. we're simply at the beginning of the age of content.

you know, that being said, competition, competition is certainly increasing and what you're seeing the winners in the media dorks the disneys of the world and new york times of the world, they're being creative how they bunked and will price and do promotions with companies like say verizon and disney has hulu, espn, marvel, pixar. the new york times have athletic, wordl, cross word puzzles, home cooking and home delivery. you're seeing this whole space going to a new area, new level of maturity and new level of competition and new rules of the game all about how do i put the right bundle, right offer in front of the right subscriber at the right time, and on our side this is why we're excited about the acquisition we announced yesterday with zepher bringing what we do with zepher into a one-stop shop to build a successful subscription business. lauren: if bundling is the way of the future, essentially

though it's in the present, does that leave netflix out. they don't bundle. >> well, i think you're starting to see netflix do more creativity around this. the first step is do we launch a smaller bundle or cheap around advertising. that's the obvious one. a family bundle that allows the netflix sharing of passwords and enable that to happen but maybe with a higher priced bundle, but you're going to see them come up with all sorts of ideas. gaming, i'm not sure that's the one that works but you're seeing over time, they're going to experiment with different things and ultimately they're going to have to go the same way that disney is doing right now. lauren: okay, call me a dinosaur, tien, but i find all this confusing. bundles sound great but i'm sitting here saying i want to watch that show and that show and this is on this. i'm so confused what i need and i wind up paying for all of it because it's a little here and a little there. isn't it easier just to have a cable subscription to get all of

it. it's a lot of money for more structures? >> i don't know. i would remember the days when i had three channels, abc, nbc, and cbs. we don't want to go back to those days or talk about one cable channel. that's a monopoly and they gave you a thousand channels and felt like there was nothing to watch. rather than spending $150 a month on cable tv, i think i'll sign up for two, three, maybe four streaming services. i'm going to pick the ones with the best content. i don't know about you, but i feel like i have this insashable appetite for -- insatiable appetite for great content and excited about house of dragon and squid games. i'm excited about media and doubling down on history. lauren. i got you and hear you and challenging you with it. so, you used to be able to watch saturday night live or law and order. if they aired on saturday, you could watch them on hulu on

sunday. you had your hulu and good with that. now nbc is saying no, you want to watch the next day, you have to have our peacock. that's hard for customers to keep up with. the content providers are constantly changing the rules of the game. >> well, you're going to see obviously some competition in the content side. you saw it with disney when they're saying, look, we'll set up our services, we'll pull it out and we'll keep it. obviously content is an important thing. we'll go to the place with the best content, but the bigger story here is choice. we have so many choices now. this is an awesome world. it's the golden age of content. but the companies that can reach out to us with the right bundles and right content and right offerings, they're the o ones tt will win. lauren: yeah, there's strength and durability with the subscription. it's easy for me to get around pay walls. i've got my tricks. >> look, when the company and the industry was really, really

growing, you saw netflix turn a behind eye to things like password sharing but ultimately as the industry matures, as more competition comes in, they're going to tighten this stuff up but, look, at the end of the day, as consumers, we'll have great content, choices, content is good and will keep the price down, and these are the techniques that companies will use. look, coming back to why we need the acquisition, bringing pay wall technology and access technology with billing, payments and revenue into the one-stop solution, we're excited about helping any media company build and lawn fantastic subscription offerings and beyond the media, other industries with financial services, where there's retail, whether it's e commerce, they're going to have to follow as well. lauren: you have the best seat in the old fashion cinema. that's where you are with all of this. i still keep going back to my old school analogies, but you do. you're in the middle of all this.

tien tzuo. thank you for the time. >> thankers, lauren. lauren: tesla shares split today as elon musk makes a play for more affordable stock for retail investors who seem to want it, but maybe not today. we'll check in on the performance in today's pop stocks after the break. overall markets, up across the board. 1% gains for the nasdaq and broader market. the dow up half of one percent or 174 points. we've got about 36 minutes left to the trading day, and we'll come right back on the "claman countdown". yes, it is session highs as they tell me in my ear. we'll be right back. ♪ lauren: all right, the

party's on. the market at session high and the dow up almost 200 po pointsd tech heavy nasdaq up 245. net app leading the s&p 500 today and reported better than expected earnings for the fiscal first quarter and it's a data storage company now exceed analyst expectations for the last four quarters and these numbers impressed golden sacs and ubs to raise price targets on the san jose company at $7.28 and a share gain of 7%. more stimulus from the chinese government. beijing adding $146 billion to the u.s. stimulus package and it'll be used mostly for infrastructure like helping to ease power shortages and drought

but many economists believe this infusion, not enough, to counter all the damage from covid lockdowns but look at these gains. they're up 12%. a three for one stock split. chaching not helping tesla. at $293. tesla shareholders on record on august 17 given two extra shares at the close of trading last night. following a vote earlier this month to approve the split, the three for one. so the price adjusts to reflect the larger number of outstanding shares and makes it more affordable for regular people to buy the stock. investors are shying away today still maintaining outperform rating on the stock. obviously what's happening in california would help an ev maker like tesla. high inflation forcing sony to raise the prize of playstation 5 by up to 20%. the increase will affect most markets outside the u.s..

americans are okay for now. japanese gamers seeing the biggest price hike while european players have to sell out an additional 10%. tony said it's also a force to raise prices on the cheaper diskless version as well. those shares are up 1% because most stocks are in the green today. coming up, the nation's top economist is descending on jackson hole, wyoming, for the annual symposium. market watchers are bird spotting to see if fed chair jerome powell will resemble a hawk or a dove or maybe both as phil flynn said earlier. all star fed panel is here to break it down and first, look at green ahead of jay powell speech 10:00 tomorrow morning. dow is up 176 points. "claman countdown" coming right back. ♪

lauren: let's take a look here . shares of snow flake surging higher after they topped estimates for the second quarter and good enough for a 22% gain in the stock price today. snowflake has benefited as more companies move their data to the cloud, goldman sachs, raymond james and more raising their price targets on the stock. 10 year yield dropping as investors brace themselves for what kind of jay powell shows up tomorrow. the fed chief speaks at 10:00 eastern at the symposium in jackson hole. everybody is listening and it's the first in-person meeting since 2019, and wall street wants more guidance on how high interest rates will go next month. one year powell told us inflation was transitory and he was dead wrong and how hawkish will the fed turn as it tries to course correct its bad call. fed fund futures show 62.5% of

investors are betting that the fed front loads by hiking another 75 basis points next month. all this to bring down inflation stubbornly high. edward lawrence caught up with the host of the jackson hole symposium, kansas city fed president edward george. edward, my main question to you is we have all this talk from all these different fed heads, is anyone committal on anything: recession or the next move in interest rates, 75 or 50? is anyone committing to anything? >> the only committal i've seen is there will be a rate hike in september. whether it's 50, 75, that'll be the big question as you talked about hawks. we haven't seen any hawks. we've seen a chipmunk so i don't know what that mean going forward. there's a lot more people at this conference and that could be a factor since it's not been in person for the past two years or the massive inflation along with the rate hikes that go along with it to handle it. i did talk with kansas city

federal reserve president ester george, she's a voting member of the federal reserve this year. she says she could see a 50 basis points or 75 basis point mover at the september meeting for her. it depends on if the next job report comes in above expectations because that could be an indication of future inflation. she also sees the unemployment rate rising toward the end of this year and into next year. you're talking about possibly an increase in unemployment rate, increasing pressure on inflation might not peaked yet. it's at almost a 40 year high as of now. doesn't that mean recession? are we in one? are you forecasting one? >> so i think where we should be focused really is saying demand is really outpacing supply still. and we will have to see demand cool. to get that imbalance is really where i think we need to be focused. >> you're not ready to say recession yet. >> you know, they don't give me the responsibility to call

recessions, ed, so that's not a particular thing i've had to weigh in on. >> so after all that talking around the issue, she did not rule out a recession either in one or one coming up in the future. back to you. lauren: edward, did you see a bull or a bear over there? >> haven't seen a bull or a bear. we got a chipmunk and a mouse. you read the tea leaves. lauren: just about done with all my animal met fore metaphors, ed lawrence, thank you. lauren: more from larry summers to jayme diamond and the fed have fallen way too far behind. can powell prove tomorrow might he can make things right? joining me is the bank rate senior economist mark. thank you -r joining us. >> hello, lauren. lauren: hello. what will it take for powell to right the ship here? >> i think he'll keep his cards close to his would-be vest and the fed announcement on the 21st

of september will be where we get that investigation. there's just too much data, too many to happen between now and then, lauren. lauren: but a lot of people, including james bullard are saying just front load. inflation is too big of a problem and it is right in front of us, 8.5% inflation. just dot 75, tell the market you're doing the 75 in september and take it from there. >> well, i think he's doing what he does and that is pound the table, and he can be an advocate for that. it's the chair's job to drive toward a consensus. much the same as that open plain out there, he has acted a little bit like a cowboy on the horse and try to rustle all the cattle into a pen to get them to agree on one thing. you know, i don't think they get any extra points for being early and wrong with this decision. that's why they need to wait for the data, and that's why they took forward guidance off the table at the last meeting. lauren: okay, but we do have

data and it is two consecutive quarters of negative gdp, when does confirm a technical recession. you heard ester george of kansas talking to edward lawrence saying it's not my job to say if we're in a recession. in terms of recession, maybe consumers feel it, maybe they don't. where do you stand on what you're hearing from people? >> well, i want to move aside this discussion of the recession because i think that's a different conversation. americans may be feeling as if there's a recession, that's a different call than what the official ash torrs do and the recent survey showed americans are concerned and the majority believe they should be acting as if a recession is imminent over the coming intermediate term and not only do we have basically seven out of ten americans believing that that is the risk, but even more than that, three out of four are taking

decisions, making decisions now and actions now to prepare their personal finances for that and the survey indicates the number one thing they're doing is that they're cutting back on discretionary purchases, and that can have a self-reinforcing mechanism and leads into further weakness in the economy. lauren: yeah, and we're seeing customers trade down. we heard from dollar tree they're cutting prices at their family dollar because consumers are looking for deals even at the dollar store. then you look at this data from experian, the average new vehicle hit an all time high of $42,090. that's an obscene amount of money to afford a new car here in the united states of america. i mean, i see a number like that, consumers feel a number like that. that's part of this inflation that's just become intertwined in the economy. >> well, lauren, if we could

resolve those supply chain constraints, we wouldn't have to work on monday; right. that's the biggest problem facing the automobile industry and by extension, that's the problem facing the economy and consumers is we don't have enough automobiles to go around. personally i don't think it's a great idea to buy a car right now and it's definitely a bad idea to extend the loan terms out so long just so you can get in the car of your dreams. you might have to trade down a little bit much the same as people have to do to buy a home. lauren: it's still expensive and the point is if the fed keeps hiking and hiking and hiking to get the inflation under control, that auto bill and loan is one of the many loans going up and up and up squeezing the consumer who's been pretty resilient even more. >> auto loans are not so well correlated to what the federal reserve does. you can get an auto loan for around 5% right now compared to let's say a credit card rate, which on average now is on the order of approaching 18%. the real delta, the real negative impact of that car

purchase situation right now is the rising cost of cars and go back to economics 101, not enough supply to satisfy demand, those two things need to even out. lauren: not enough supply for the housing market? >> oh, yeah. it's a horrible challenge. lauren: what about the credit card market? >> you can get a credit card if you qualify so if anything, the providers are more than willing to send you a application or take your application over the internet. lauren: yeah, it's tough time right now. mark hamr ick thank you for the time. gary gensler says they treat crypto like the rest of the market. john deaton joining us onset with charlie gasparino and the big board in the green. the dow now powering ahead by over 250 points. we're coming right back.

♪

hi, i'm denise. i've lost over 22 pounds with golo in six months and i've kept it off for over a year. i was skeptical about golo in the beginning because i've tried so many different types

of diet products before. i've tried detox, i've tried teas, i've tried all different types of pills, so i was skeptical about anything working because it never did. but look what golo has done. look what it has done. i'm in a size 4 pair of pants. go golo. (soft music) first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. lauren: so twitter shares are half a percent higher right now after a delaware judge rejected

many of elon musk's demands directed at twitter. he is trying to buy the company. he is trying to avoid buying the company for $44 billion. twitter says no, please buy us like you said you would. according to the filing the judge called the demands absurdly. and data for 9,000 accounts used in a audit last year. those accounts were suspected to be fraudulent bots. firing back in a fox business op-ed, lawyer john deaton who is representing more than 70,000 xrp investors in a class-action lawsuit against the sec john deaton joins me now with charlie gasparino who has been closely following the sec's ongoing lawsuit with the crypto company,

ripple. charlie, what have you got. >> i don't have a lot. he has. 75,000. then she corrected to 70. is it 70? >> 72,500. >> right almost the first time. lauren: settle empty middle. >> you represent the xrp holders. >> i do. >> not carrying water for ripple. >> absolutely not. >> you have the case xrp shareholders are collateral damage, road kill, to speak. that is the point you made pretty well in the column comparing him to oranges in the holy case. we will got get into that. that will take entire show. howie case. howie case determines if the sec has the authority to go after you because you didn't file like they're saying ripple and xrp did, right. >> yeah. >> you're saying you're stretching the boundaries. last i heard, last time you were on the show, the sec was trying to get you thrown off the case. they don't like you.

where does that sit. >> thank you for having me, lauren. good to meet you. 2,500 people from over 142 countries around the world joined together -- 72,500. these are the people gary gensler somewhere to protect. instead of talking to us, reaching out to us he filed a motion, his sec lawyers filed a motion to v. voc our standing in court, revoke our amicus status. personally throw me off the case. >> the judge ignored their silly request. basically i'm still allowed to participate. you want to know who gary gensler has time for? met vanguard seven times since being sec chair. why is that relevant? vanguard manages 90% of his 120 million fortune. he can meet them, not us. who is protecting? >> we tried to get him on. by the way before he issued the op-ed to the "wall street journal" we were going, we asked them to do the

op-ed, do you i do it in "the wall street journal." be that as it may. we'll give you the floor. why doesn't he have standing to doing what he is doing? he claims all the things are sold as securities. it's a rooten piece of fruit it does extend to the people that holds them. if xrp is a security, because of the way ripple issued it to finance its platform just like you would issue a stock or a bond, they did not register with the sec, that xrp, that xrp is in circulation illegally allegedly and then you pick it up and 72,000 people pick it up. still, you're holding an illegal security. why is that? what is wrong with that analysis? that is what i think he is saying? >> because the howie case, said the sales contract and service contract and the scheme is investment contract. that is the security. not the underlying asset. the oranges or the land track -- >> howie was selling orange groves, right, whether that instituted a contract that --

>> oranges were never the securities. the underlying asset is not. xrp is digital code. that is all it is. alphanumeric what you're saying ripple is guilty, not the xr holders? or ripple could be guilty. >> what i'm saying in 76 years when you look at all the sec cases coming from the howie case there has never been a case where there has been absolutely no privity between the purchaser and the buyer. i'm saying sec if you prove the case against ripple, go at it, do your job. but when you say a person who purchased it on coinbase who never heard of the company ripple, has no idea who brad is, when you're claiming that token 10 years later is an unregistered security with ripple, now you've stretched that howie case beyond recognition. >> like saying all the oranges in the groves that were illegal contracts, the oranges are illegal? >> like saying a grocer, imagine

a grocer is like a digital exchange, like a coinbase. when you buy the orange they're saying you now hold an unregistered security. >> even though the grove that produced the orange might be illegal? >> if that person sold it. here is the thing to understand, bitcoin has been used as unregistered security. doesn't make bitcoin unregistered security. chinchillas, oranges, beavers, yes, beavers. it is scheme how you use it. condos have been used, any commodity. >> i'm getting a wrap here, john, real quick, fill us in where does the case stand, where is it going? >> the thing to know gensler's ask to have me thrown have hasn't been anywhere we're still participating. >> going to court? >> summary judgment filings. >> done by end of the year? >> no. >> we'll get you back on soon i guess. i hope so. back to you. >> till then, john, charlie, thank you. get in another market check because the closing bell rings

in 3 1/2 minutes. markets are a making a final charge in these minutes. dow is almost 300 points today. financials outpacing market ahead of fed chair jackson hole speech tomorrow morning. today's "countdown" closer is a sector you can find gains, no matter what powell says. bring in meghan who manages 3 1/2 billion dollars. good to see you. what kind of jay powell shows up tomorrow, is he a hawk or a dove? >> i think he draws the line in between. he will have to be a bit hawkish because of the inflation environment. he will not be as hawkish as i think the markets were expecting earlier this week. he just can't be. the economic situation is worsening. the data showed it today. the housing market is deteriorating. so he will have to balance that, he will lean a bit hawkish but not as hawkish as some people have anticipated. lauren: you like financials, obviously. higher rates are good for the banks. you also like industrials. why is that? >> so from a financial

standpoint you said it higher rates are good for the banks. i think banks took a lot of loan-loss reserves in the prior earnings season that can pay us back in the future. from the industrial standpoint industrials have been unloved here. they have lag ad lot of other areas of the market but industrials should benefit from ongoing improvement in the supply chain. they have a good price to cash flow, decent earnings as well as like i said from a valuation perspective they look attractive compared to the rest of the market. lauren: homebuilders say we're in recession. i mean oil prices down today, they're up sharply this year. oil companies are making money. you say avoid energy, avoid real estate and tech. explain? >> so energy standpoint simply because it rallied so far so fast. lauren: got it. >> it is pricing in the optimism. remember that energy could be challenged in the second half of this year with the economic slowdown and recession. so i think from an earnings

visibility standpoint that's the only area that's actually has some visibility because of the rise. so people have flocked to that. i wouldn't chase it at these levels. i think from a valuation perspective it's expensive. also real estate i think that real estate is in for a bit of a further correction. interest rates are very high. we're looking at a month's supply in homes that are very high. this will continue to challenge the housing market. also from a real estate perspective, remember it is interest rate sensitive sector. we would avoid. lauren: that exactly. when you look into your crystal ball, september a terrible month, october a bad month for the stork stock market, you get end of the year santa claus rally, do you have a specific target for the s&p 500? >> i think we'll end the-year higher from here. it will depends what we see from further earnings. we haven't seen a whole lot of change from earnings perspective this year. we'll going to watch the market, we'll watch the earnings out of

the third quarter. we'll also see what the fed does before we look at targets here. lauren: we don't know if powell will be a hawk and a dove. meghan, you said you're a bull on market for the end. year. thank you for your time. [closing bell rings] this is strong end of day before the fed speaks. look, the dow is up 317 points. that is it for the claman "countdown." here is "kudlow". nolt. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. so if it is sounds like an election year handout that's because it is. president biden's student loan bailout which essentially robs the poor to pay the rich will cost taxpayers roughly $500 billion. that according to the committee for a responsible federal budget. between loan cancellations, extending payment deferrals for another four months. and revised income-based repayment plan, this could