- [announcer] call aag, the country's number one reverse mortgage lender. - call the number on your screen. neil: all right welcome back. we're to the upside right now all the major averages advancing but we're told that volume is very very low, you would expect, the week we're going to hear from the federal reserve, expectations are when they wrap up a two day meeting tomorrow they will hike interest rates at a minimum another three-quarters of a basis point although some go a little bit higher so how do you invest in this market and in this time? david rubenstein will join us the carlyle group co-founder, what of course is so famous about david is he can talk to

the mighty and powerful, he's a fellow billionaire so he took together some of the most successful investors on the planet and how they zig will others zag and it's a fascinating view. they don't all agree but their claim to fame is that they have made all this money and had this success, because they don't follow consensus, depending on the time period. he's got an interesting read on that and inflation, where things go and how we protect our memorabilia in this country. this is the guy who, you know, just bought a copy of the magna carta as if. all right? jackie was robbed of that chance to do that to buy a copy of that but she will try next time there's three or four out there anyway, jackie so good to see you. you're following a lot of these developments in particularly what's been happening on the rate front and expectation because homebuilders are worried about it. jackie: the market is tepid. we were down lower, slightly higher wait and see approach ahead of the big fed meeting tuesday and wednesday but it was

a brutal week last week. the market thinks that there are headwinds ahead of us that got that 8.3% cpi number and said okay it seems like inflation is now being, is embedded into the economy, and there might be slowing in the labor market as well, so that's the concern. so we're going to wait for wednesday. the fed meetings going to conclude with a decision on rates while most likely the scenario is that three- quarters of a point hike, one full percentage point isn't being ruled out by everybody in the market, it's still a possibility and of course, everybody is watching and trying to read the tea leaves here. the market has been bracing for this , neil. the fed basically has said that there's going to be pain to come and that it has to be more aggressive, and that is because the inflation has become embedded in the economy in this way. that's really what i want you to look at here because it's at the lowest that we seen since mid- july and investors were excited at one point in the summer that things were going to get a little bit better and that inflation would ease on its own and powell could step

back a little bit and put his foot on the brake but that doesn't seem to be the case here actually the s&p is approaching bear market territory which we know down 10% from its most recent highs so that's something we should be watching for. i also want you to take a look at oil prices. oil prices are trading let's see , we're trading a little bit higher today, three-tenths of a percent. not necessarily because we're drilling more. we're down overall at $85 a barrel but really because the markets are worried about recession coming. supplies could continue to tighten here, actually, giving oil some support or even taking it higher when the eu enacts its russian oil & gas embargo that happens later this year. finally i want to talk about rising rates because of the impact it has on the housing market. housing market is slowing, and we've got some new data there. the homebuilder sentiment index falling for the ninth straight month to the lowest since may of 2020. if you strip out the pandemic period which was a difficult time in the equation, it would actually be the lowest that we've seen since may of 2014. so lot going on, a lot to watch. think it's going to be pretty

quiet until we get that decision on wednesday. neil: they gotta know but you go through the end of the year they are looking at the fed funds rate being 4% or higher. that's the level "which people like ray dalio say you got a 20% correction it's scary. jackie: that's why we saw that sell-off last week to the extent that we did. neil: jackie great job thank you as always. i don't want to add to the worries but we could have a government shutdown. that used to be a big deal because they were so rare, but well, they aren't so rare. chad pergram on how they are still hoping to avoid that. chad what's happening? reporter: neil, the house and senate don't agree on much, except now, delay everything. the only thing congress must do this fall is fund government. the deadline is october 1. >> as all of us know on september 30, at midnight, the government's ability to fund and operate goes out of authorization. therefore it's necessary for us to take action before september

30 and we may do that next week. reporter: republicans want lawmakers to pass bill toss address inflation but that's not on the table. congress is in session but don't expect much to happen until later next week. >> we're well-aware of the deadline hopefully we can get something brought ideally agreed upon by both sides which we're nowhere near right now, but at least to have more direct conversations well in advance of the deadline, so we're not here watching the clock strike midnight. reporter: also a bill to codify same sex marriage, a bill to tighten up congressional stock trades and a plan to reform the electoral count act and we don't even know if government funding bill will include money for ukraine. >> this is severe vicious war, they are running out of materials, they are running out of guns, running out of artillery, running out of our great missiles. they need more of them to continue their success and this be a ridiculous time, a

very bad time to back off. reporter: chuck schumer continues to insist he'll make good on a promise to democrat joe manchin on expanding permits for energy. schumer says that will go in the spending bill, but there's bipartisan opposition. republicans view the pact as a scheme to get joe manchin to support the democrat's health, climates and tax bill last month neil? neil: chad, thank you for that. chad pergram. let's go to jonathan hoenig, how he makes, what the markets are making so far staying within a tight trading range also victoria fernandez. jonathan, you first on what the markets might be saying. the expectation is that three- quarters of a percent hike on wednesday, it be the third- such hike. could it be more? >> well, neil, markets are basically projecting that. i mean, the bond market this year has been an absolute catastrophe. it's down about 11% for just a

straight-up agg, the bond index fund. this is the worst showing ever and when you think about that now all that capital, all that investment capital is basically dead and dead for a period of time. stocks can rally, but that investment capital is dead and that's what ultimately powers the economy forward. all these back deals from schumer and all the rest is trillions of dollars and that's what's causing the malaise if you look at the 70s could last for years. neil: you know, victoria, when you look at inflation, then you have to look at market returns in real terms and as bad as they are, you know, year-to-date and they are even worse when you look at inflation adjusted terms so when you got to start wondering what a 10 year note north of 3.5%, the highest since 2011 means for those who just want to protect what they have. i know you're still in real terms not advancing, but you're not losing anymore principal. how much of a investment draw is that going to be from stocks?

>> well, look, neil. when you're talking about that 10 year getting over 350 there's calls that we're going to get the terminal rate up to 4% so you look at the shorter part of the yield curve and you are even getting higher yields close to that 4% now on the two-year, i think a lot of people can sit and say well wait a minute there's a fixed income investment. where i'm getting a cash flow yield is higher than my dividend yield on stocks, and remember, with bonds, you have a maturity date where you get your principal back at par, so worse case scenario, you get par back and you've generated your 4% cash flows, so the old add age that there is no alternative i think is no longer valid because there is an alternative for certain investors that are looking for cash flow out of their portfolio, not necessarily the capital appreciation that perhaps their stock portfolio does, but obviously, the higher yields go, the more volatility there will be in the equities. neil: but you know, there's been remarkable resilience of the part of average investors,

jonathan, not all, obviously. so we've not seen any so-called capitulation and a lot of technicians say you need that when people just say the hell with it i'm out of here. well many people have sort of cast themselves out or at least dialed things back to the point that they want to protect what gains they still have left, if they have any left. do you wait for something like that before you'd say all right, now, this is going to turn around? >> no, neil that's ultimately what kills people and so much of their investments is that they buy all the way down. i mean it's really also what happened in 2000 after march of 2000. most people bought all the way down, and only cap capitulated in march of 2001. you've seen cathie wood and a lot of individual investors buy over again and you mentioned the major averages are almost at a bear market but you've already got 80% of stocks below their 200-day moving average. they are already in a bear market, and there's all this

stimulus spending and all the chip act and all this , you know, redistribution of income. that's what keeps us in the bear market for who knows how long to come and the governments now going to be in charge of energy, neil, and if it's anything like how its turned out in schools and healthcare, with all this central planning, it's going to be an absolute mess. neil: you know, victoria, he mentioned cathie wood of course of ark investment, the famed technology investment was in on tesla and amazon and apple and all these big high-tech names and she's still getting net in- flows that are enviable for almost any fund, let alone hers that's been hammered so she still believes in technology. do you? >> well, we believe in technology, but we don't want to go all in on that sector, similar to what cathie is doing but yet that's her thesis of her fund so i understand why she's sticking with it. in our opinion though, you look at these names. i mean jonathan just mentioned that you have a large percentage of stocks below their 200 day

moving average. you're looking at names like microsoft and alphabet that are down past their june lows, so do you go in and nibble a little bit on those now? i'm not so sure. we're really focusing on that quality component and looking at stocks that have held their own relative to the other members of their sector, so apple is a name that we continue to like. it's still holding its own a little bit there, but we're looking at other areas, we're looking at names like ups, we like that, we like financial names as well and some healthcare names so i think you have to be very choosy and don't just think because the sector is down right now it's the perfect time to go all-in. >> and neil, i'll just say if i briefly may, cathie wood if people want to google it, garrett van wagner of this era or the coffman fund of this era those were all big, high-flying funds in their era, that ultimately have disappeared over the long term. neil: well the capital fund is still around. it just doesn't have --

>> is it? forgive me if it is. garrett van wagner and his success, which came in the 90s is certainly gone. neil: don't get me going on van wagner. thank you, my friend. jonathan on that, victoria on that. we have david rubenstein joining us on how to invest in this environment. one thing i learned just following david's career and the people who profiles it, some of the most successful investors on earth is they are all very rich but they weren't always very rich, but the one thing they all have in common is they zig when everyone else zags and there's something to be said about that. how are they zagging right now? we'll ask david.

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neil: you know, they still have these vaccine mandates even though the president in that 60 minutes interview said we're over it. everyone can go back to their normal lives here, but tell that to about 850 teachers right now and classroom age who have been fired just in the big apple right now for failure to comply with the vaccine mandate here. madison alworth has more from brooklyn. madison? reporter: hi, neil. so we are in the midst of a teacher shortage across the country and as you just said , new york city has now fired 850 teachers and school staff because they chose not to

get the covid-19 vaccine. we're talking about educators like kathy mcfaddin, who after over 20 years in the classroom was kicked out. >> came out of retirement to help the city of new york because i love this city. it's a great city. i'm a licensed math teacher. they always had a shortage of math teachers, so who in their right mind would let go a math teacher? reporter: around 1,300 department of education employee s were placed on unpaid leave last fall and we're told to show proof of covid vaccination by september 4 of this year or be voluntarily resigned. only 450 did and now, those 850 remaining are officially out of the school workforce. the total of teachers and school staff let go in new york city because of vaccine mandates that's hit 2,000 but the private sector seems to be getting a free pass. even though it is technically required for all workers in new york city to be vaccinated, mayor eric adams has stopped

random searches and businesses have not been fined during his tenure. teachers like kathy are frustrated to be scrutinized while others aren't. >> the pandemic is over. the command of chief, president biden, said the pandemic is over and he's over the state and he's over the city, so they need to stop it, because it's not working and their best interest more for the people of this great city. reporter: neil, you could feel the passion from kathy when we were talking to her. she's one of those educators you want your kids to be under with her focus on material. she says she would get back to the classroom if mandates were lifted so she's really hoping for that but in the meantime she's been doing tutoring on the side and advocating whenever she can because she's not allowed back in a new york city classroom. neil: madison thank you for that meanwhile i want to take you to illinois right now where they've got something called the safety act and its become a bit of a campaign issue. it essentially does away with

cash bail in an effort to at least its proponents say do away with systemic racism. my next guest is saying it's going to do more harm than good in fact a lot more harm. with us right now is the republican mayor of orland park. mayor very good to have you. your concern about this is pretty evident, that this will actually make a crime situation worse. could you explain? >> yeah, this is probably the most dangerous bill i've ever seen for public safety. it prioritizes criminals over citizens and the police officers essentially, criminals, for the most part, will not be able to be held. judges have to prove that someone is a specific threat to a specific person in order to hold someone and there's been several crimes including second degree murder, kidnapping, armed robbery, that are non-detainable offenses so those criminals will be allowed right back out on the street and we've been seeing this in cook county, from kim

fox, she's been doing a lot of this already and we've seen what's happened to crime in chicago so this will happen statewide and be even worse. neil: so where does this stand now, mayor? >> it was passed last year and goes into effect in january of 2023. i think we can all understand why they waited until after the next election to put this in place, so as of january 2023, this goes into effect. many people will have to be let go from the jails they are currently in, and another piece of this bill is trespassing becomes a lower level misdemeanor that is a citation offense, therefore they cannot be arrested or removed from a property for any kind of trespassing, so that's personal property or business, so what could possibly go wrong leaving criminals out on the street and they could trespass on your property. neil: so the zero bail thing, are there exceptions made for those who are arrested under particularly issues? >> according to the law, the only crimes i think there

were seven of them but primarily murder was the one thing that they could be held on. otherwise the prosecution has 48 hours to prove to the judge that they are either a threat to a specific person, not a threat to society. that doesn't work. it has to be to a specific person, or that they are a flight risk. if they don't do that they will be let free. essentially, most criminals, the overwhelming majority, will be allowed to walk free while they are awaiting trial. neil: wild, mayor keep us posted on where all this goes. in the meantime we're following developments at the corner of wall and broad where the dow jones industrials down but volume, i'm understanding, is running much lower than usual on a monday and the start of a new week ahead of the federal reserve, two day meeting that wraps up on wednesday. they are expected to hike rates again to address inflation and if david rubenstein is right, the co-founder of the carlyle group, whose talked to a number of other very successful investors, wiping out inflation doesn't come easy or fast.

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neil: all right, let's take you to the corner of wall and broad right now. volume not what it normally be as we kickoff the week, this is the week we expect the federal reserve when it wrap s up its latest two-day meeting on wednesday and hike rates another three-quarters of a point. some are betting it could be as high as a full percentage point, get back to sort of the paul volcker-type level, where we used to see him raising rates, one full percentage point at a time. we shall see in the meantime, i do want to get the read on all of this from david rubenstein, of course you know david. co-founder of the carlyle group, very successful, multibillion air which could explain how he got other successful billionaire investors to talk to him. he merely calls and they pick-up

the phone and say oh, it's david so yes, sure i'll be happy to talk to you. the book is "how to invest" masters of the craft, david rubenstein. good to see you. >> my pleasure, thank you for having me. neil: i love having you. i want to get into the nitty gritty on some of this and the names that you chose and the people you reached out to, but first off on your expectations, this week and whether the fed does move another three-quarter point. >> well you mentioned paul volcker. paul volcker and the fed increased interest rate discount rate 200 basis points over one weekend and they didn't telegraph it and explain it. now the world is different. they telegraph exactly what they are going to do and explain it afterwards. the fed has been telegraphing 75 basis points. if they were to go to 100 basis points, i think it be shocking to the market. i know some percentage of people of the market, 14% or so, think it might be 100 basis points, but i think they wouldn't want to shock the market that way so if they were going to do 100 basis points i think they would have telegraphed it by now. neil: they have expressed alarm about what's going on and that

is what bummed so many out after jerome powell's remarks in wyoming a few weeks ago, but the market reaction, did paul volcker worry about how the markets would digest what he was doing? what is this obsession we have? >> well there weren't as many tv shows and as many people who knew what was going on in the market those days because we didn't have instant access to the markets for everybody. today everybody follows it all over the world. it's a different situation, but i think right now, the fed is likely to think if they were to do 100 basis points, the reaction be they know inflation is much worse than people think it is. therefore i think it would depress the markets even more than they were depressed last week. neil: when you gathered and talked to some of the successful , most successful investors on the planet, the one thing without getting into the details just yet is that there is a common theme that most of them, this was not their first choice, and a lot of them, much like yourself, doesn't come

from money at all. >> most of them came from blue collar backgrounds or lower middle class backgrounds. many had no interest at all in investing. warren buffett is an exception. he was interested in making money and investing as a young child, but that's the exception. many of them were interested in other things. i think he thought he was going to be a forest ranger or something so many people were interested. jim simons was going to be a mathematician, i was going to be a lawyer, so you know, we drift ed into it. neil: so let me ask you, you talk about what they all have in common. there's some of the finest investment minds on the planet but you say great investors do not exception conventional wisdom. they see what others did not and they are prepared to take the risk of being proven wrong by going against conventional wisdom. so i get that part, but these days a contrarian could be someone who is bucking that trend, or sees better bluer

skies ahead. >> well right now, for example, the markets are depressed. so many people are staying back and not investing in the markets , but now may be a great time to invest you're getting things at a lower price. you're not absolutely at the bottom perhaps but trying to time the top of the market and bottom is a fools error in generally. the great investors don't worry about that. they do the analysis and think the company is good they won't worry about the markets because they catch up to them eventually neil: do they care their views like ray dolio comes to mind, but he was talking about just not going how high is high and interest rates and i know he recently pinned it, we get over 4% on fed funds. we could be looking at a 20% hit in the markets i'm kind of simplifying what he said, but that is not a wildly contrarian view with the markets. a lot of people are pessimistic so where did they differentiate? >> well some people now think that the market is kind of bottomed out and some people think it could go down as ray said the other day, and stan dru

kenmiller said something not too long ago but what they tend to do is make predictions for a long time out. they have to make decisions every week or every month, so and they aren't right all the time either. remember, great investors don't always make the right decisions. they like to own up to their mistakes, get out of them quickly so nobody is perfect. if you are perfect as an investor you never made a mistake you aren't really an investor. neil: so george soros shorting the pound was an unprecedented move back then to short the british pound and make a million dollars plus on it. those are rare events aren't they? >> well in that case a billion dollars then was a lot of money, when john paulson did his bet he made $20 billion which is a staggering sum. a billion dollars -- neil: he saw the housing crash. >> that's correct. george soros sound the pound going down and separating from the rest of the european currencies so they basic had it shorted the pound in effect and made a billion dollars a

staggering sum at the time and basically george soros view was we should put more in because if you have a great idea double down or triple down because how many great ideas are there? neil: all right but when you talk about great ideas, do they have to be altruistic in pursuing these ideas? >> well i think every time you have a great idea you don't always pursue it because sometimes you have other priorities and so forth, but generally when they have a great idea they do research, they think they know what you're doing and make a bet, but if they think they are wrong they will correct it. in other words great investors say i made a mistake i'm going to get out and go on to the next thing. people not great investors sometimes hold on. neil: but they do it in a woke manner. isn't that the big push today to make investments that don't only make you rich, but can enrich society? >> well i don't want to get into the woke thing. most great investors -- neil: you do though, you say until relatively recently investors weren't obsessively focused on social impacts of their activities getting the highest rate of return level of profit was the invariable but

you do argue, it depends what they do does help society. >> it does. what they do helps society because you make a bet like moderna that helps society. if you make a good bet you're helping the economy generally helping society and doing creating jobs. on the wokeness i would say some people are very concerned about esg factors. neil: are you personally? >> of course i'm concerned about the environment. i'm concerned about those things , but does that drive everything i do? well it's a factor, but it was not a factor 20 years ago and 20 years ago nobody paid attention to expectation or very few people did. now everybody does but people invest for their own family offices. they aren't subject to public shareholders knowing what they are doing. i don't think they are as focused on esg as some cases. neil: all right so this pushback against some blackrock was getting this pressure from a number of states and mayors are saying wait a minute this woke investment strategy where you wanted to de-emphasize fossil fuels that's going too far. >> that's what some people said and there has been pushback.

neil: do you agree with that? >> in some cases some things may have gone too far but esg is a good thing. we should worry about social impact of investing but that shouldn't be the only thing you worry about. neil: when you lack at these guys and their success, they didn't go into this with those type of goals in mind. >> probably not except for one person, david flood. he did and he basically built an organization with al gore that was assigned to focus only on esg. neil: all right, so do you -- >> i'm not that great investor compared to those people. neil: but you are a multi billionaire so you've done something right. now you've given back a lot to society that's an understatement. do you think and do these people you profile, do they give back? is that something that's important to you when you write about it? >> absolutely. first of all, except for invest ing for an endowment you aren't going to get wealthy in that business but investing for private investors, for yourself and really good and good enough to be in that book

you've made a lot of money. very few people who are in this book are obsessed with spending the money to make great art collections, build great houses. they really care about society and they do give back and most of them are great philanthropist s. neil: but they also like beating the other guy and keep doing that. >> it's intellectual witt. when you go do any game you want to win. they want to win at investing so that's not unusual but when they win they make a lot of money and when they make a lot of money they tend to give it back to society. neil: elizabeth warren doesn't see them in the same way. >> that's probably true. neil: do you? >> well, i would side more with the investor side than maybe with her. neil: all right, so when she goes after guys like that, and by extension, some of the most successful people on the planet, jeff bezos and we could go on and on, that elon musk goes back at her and says what have you done? what do you say? >> well, i don't want to attack

elizabeth warren. i'll say she recognizes and she's a very smart person, a harvard law school professor. when she says these things the laws are not going to change that much because she's really not able to get a majority of the senate to do what she wants. if she was a majority or president of the united states, she may have different positions give different responsibilities, but the time being i think her views are not likely to be the dominant views in washington neil: so david, i didn't want to belabor this , but when this argument is that the rich have to pay more their fair share or that's the whole argument that you hear from joe biden a lot, that the rich are finally paying their fair share and all this , how do you feel about that? >> well i'm paying staggering amount of money, but i also think that sometimes we look at the percentage of people paying you don't look at the quantitative amount. let's suppose bill gates is paying $2 billion a year in taxes but the percentage is smaller than your percentage. well is that still good or bad? he's contributing a lot of money because he's paying a size amount. you just shouldn't focus only on the percentage that's the only way it's fair.

neil: but warren buffett his secretary pays more in taxes than he does. >> i've told him he should raise his secretary's salary. neil: [laughter] okay very good. let me get , because you've given a lot back and don't mean to make light of that but quite a bit back and one of the biggest is historical documents, you just recently bought a copy of the magna cart a, it was 23 million-plus for that? >> it did cost about that but i put it on display and it's permanent at the national archives. neil: you don't just stuff these in a drawer in your home. >> nothing is in my home. everything is on display somewhere and i want people to learn more about american history because if you learn more about american history, maybe we can make, avoid the mistakes in the past and we don't know much about american history right now. neil: all right, the controversy you ran into is in looking at history and you were very vital in refurbishing madison's home in vermont and i think by extension, thomas jefferson, and also bringing this other

side to their past, slave ownership and all that, and that it became a distraction for a lot of people. that you glossed over their accomplishments focusing instead on that. >> what you're referring to is about 10 years ago i gave money to help repair james madison's home and since then people have gone on tours there and the criticism was that the tours now emphasize that these individuals were slave owners, and i think that's not really fair. there are many different tours that go on there. some are for people who want to hear about the slavery, some don't want to hear about that, they have different tours but general rule of thumb it's important people know that the good and bad. jefferson and madison were brilliant men, they were slave owners and we should recognize that. neil: i've not gone to these homes since you have been refurbished and all your hard work there, but the readings you get on them is the people who conduct the tours, that's the first thing they get into. do you think that's a mistake? >> that's not true.

there are some tours in some places where people say i want to hear about slavery and they get a special tour but general tour that average person gets there is not focused exclusively on slavery. it just isn't true. neil: this sort of repackaging of history as critics called it, you don't subscribe to that? >> well, when you were a boy and i was a boy we learned history that was different than we now know what the facts are. we didn't learn everything about founding fathers then. they were terrific people, but they did make some mistakes. society wasn't perfect, and all the years make mistakes so it's important to learn the good and the bad. that's what history is all about learning the good and bad so we can avoid the mistakes in the future. neil: but those who take down statues of jefferson or madison even some have done this with lincoln or george washington, too far? >> well i think i don't know they have taken down statues of lincoln. there's been discussions of it, but statues put up expressly to promote the idea that slavery was a good thing is probably not

a good idea to keep those statue s up, but if you have a statue put up of someone that isn't designed to promote slavery like thomas jefferson, there's a statue of him in washington. it's not designed to promote slavery, i think it's appropriate there be a jefferson memorial. neil: let's go back to present day and what's going on in these markets. when you talk to some of these others and get your lay of the land, even sam zelle with real estate, did you get a sense that they were saying we're through the best of times for the time being. now, we're going to go in for some real adjustments. >> sir john tell el ton, a famous investor once famously said the biggest mistake in the investment world is saying this time is different. in other words everything has happened before so i don't think the great investor thinks this hasn't happened before. there's always different challenges but i don't think any people i talk to thought the world was going to end tomorrow or capitalism was going to end. all people are still trading, and still making money.

neil: so when you look at those who have had great successes to a man or woman a good man it had a knack for math >> that's correct. neil: i think you said economics professor, university of michigan what have you, but they did have a basic skillset there, but what they are doing now was not what they thought they be doing. >> that's true but what they all have in common is intellectual curiosity. to be a great investor and successful at most things, it helps a lot and so they are always reading. even if it's not directly relevant to what they are doing that day they want to read, read , read, because you never know what piece of information might be relevant to what they are doing so all are really inlet you'llly curious and that's a great way to be a great investor, be curious, keep asking questions and never give up learning. neil: you know that's one of the things i do like, they are work alcoholics and they are passionate and love what they do but to me i read into that that they just can't stop and smell the roses, and the good life and

all that. >> well but to smell the roses implies that playing golf is more pleasurable than investing. for some people, investing is pleasure, i get more fun in my office sometimes than i do playing tennis because i always lose in tennis but in my office i'm not losing so much so i think what you and i do for work is called work but for many of these people it's pleasure. they love doing it more than they like doing relaxation things. neil: i think you're right about that. enjoy what you do and it should be self-evident but a lot of people, you hear about these people who are quietly quitting. i was thinking of you and your own work where you came from. i mean not on the wrong side of the tracks nowhere near the tracks and your great success, but you enjoyed what you're doing, you worked hard at it. a lot of people you talked to you worked hard at it but do you worry about the work ethic that's evidencing itself now? a lot of people, oh, the hell with it. >> the hardest thing in the world to do is achieve personal happiness. and if you achieve personal happiness by working hard at something why interrupt it and say no don't work hard, and

don't have a good time doing that. go play golf or shuffleboard. i don't think it's a good thing to do. if you enjoy something without being obsessive to it, it's nothing wrong and pleasurable. neil: so part of your enjoyment is history. you're walking encyclopedia and you've actually put money down as you said to buy some famous documents. but a lot of people in this country barely know who their own congressman is let alone senator. some might be taxed at who the treasury secretary is. does that worry you? >> it does. a survey of americans recently show that 49 states a majority of native-born americans couldn't pass the basic citizenship test foreigners have to take in order to become citizens so it's nod good and the theory of history is you learn from the past but if you don't know what the past is how can you learn from it? neil: very good. can you stick around with us? honored to have david rubenstein , co-founder of the carlyle group, looks at the key to stuck an what it takes to be a success, besides their investment strategy, you get inside their heads of what

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um, because now i can bundle in space. watch this. i still don't get it. save up to 25% when you bundle home and auto with allstate. click or call for a quote today. neil: over the years he's been one of my favorite guests but david rubenstein put together a great book the co-founder of the carlyle group. how to invest, masters of the craft talks to the best at this business. we haven't seen something of that among the people profiled in quite a long time, back with us. you know, david one thing that we look at now in just after these 12 days of mourning for queen elizabeth ii is that one commentator i've heard say england's best days are gone. the empire that she took over when she did 70 years ago is very different than the britain that remains, and a lot of people go back. that's the usa, in slow motion right now. what do you say to that? >> i think that's an exaggeration and not likely

to be true. remember england was a small country in the north sea of the world. it didn't really have the location to really control the empire that it really had, and it didn't have with the population to do it either. the united states has a gigantic population. we're the third biggest country in the world population wise and we have wealth far beyond what actually england had, so i don't think what's happened to england is going to happen to us in our lifetime or in the foreseeable future. nothing is permanent but china has 1.4 billion people, so we have a quarter of the population more or less, but for the foreseeable future next 20, 30, 40, 50 years i think the united states is a dominant economic and technological military power. neil: some say we've lost our fast ball. we're not like the greatest generation. >> most people strike out, strike out on curve balls and sliders and not the fast ball. fast ball you can hit a home run so i don't think we've lost our fast ball. we have 50 million immigrants in

this country. 50 million immigrants. the next-highest country in the world with immigrants is germany with 15 million. why are people want to come here because it's still the greatest place on the earth. its got a lot of challenges but the greatest country in the world so i don't think it's fair to say we've lost our fast ball. we're still unique and people want to come here. neil: again, great history buff, you've put your money where your mouth is trying to sustain that history, remind people about that history in the past. do you have a favorite president >> well, in my way of thinking, the greatest american of all-time was abraham lincoln, because he kept the country together. most people would have said oh, you want to keep slaves fine i'm going to run the north and that's what almost any other person would have done so he held the union together and his eloquence in the second inaugural address is something that lives on forever so i think he was our greatest president and our greatest american followed closely by george washington who got everything set in motion and he did it when he was really setting all the

precedent so those are two transcending everybody else in my view. neil: joe biden seemed to hold out the possibility he might not run for re-election in the 60 minutes interview. what do you think of him and where things stand? >> i've known him for a long time. i worked for president carter. he was the first senator who endorsed jimmy carter when he was running and so i think -- neil: that's right i forgot. >> i think joe biden, what's he supposed to said? he said in the interview if i say i'm running i have all kinds of legal constraints it's the same thing with donald trump if he says he's running -- neil: he can be a very successful one term president, right? >> i think george herbert walker bush was a successful one term president, jimmy carter was a successful one term president so he can be a successful one term president but george herbert walker bush did a lot he didn't get credit for at the time and so did jimmy carter. in the case of joe biden he has to deal with the age issue and he can't say yes i'm going to run or not run. too early to say that. neil: is this a young man or

woman's job do you think? >> i'm 73 so i can't run. i'm too young to run. neil: [laughter] >> you need somebody a little bit older. i need more experience and maturity before i can run. neil: right. full disclosure here. we both talked about jimmy carter. i was an intern, of course he was the big cheese. i don't know what he did with his life after that but apparently everything worked out of course. david rubenstein, please, the book "how to invest, masters on the craft" gives you a view on even in the most dire times if you zig while everyone else is zagging you can do quite well against the consensus. stay with us. showtime. whoo! i'm on fire tonight. (limu squawks) yes! limu, you're a natural. we're not counting that. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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i recommend golo to you. this is a real thing. this is not a hoax. you follow the plan, you'll lose weight. neil: all right a little bit of pressure with stocks not that much being masked by the fact that volume is a little bit lighter than normal ahead of the federal reserve two day meeting wraps up wednesday you know the drill on this fears that it goes higher on rates that's a given, whether it's 75 basis points or full percentage point, most seem to be leaning towards three-quarters of a point and as we learned from david rubenstein, the three- quarter point thing seems far more likely. we'll have more, after this. to finally lose 80 pounds and keep it off with golo

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neil: all right, we are down about 23 points right now. we'll see what happens here. the 10-year, that is, 3 1/2%. you got to wonder that competition for stocks. here's charles. hey, cars. charles: neil, thank you very much, my friend. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne, this is "making money." breaking right now the anxiety is so thick you can cut it with a knife. will the fed go too far other stop too short in their quest to beat inflation? one of today's guests says you should strap in to be uncomfortable. oil is sending food prices soaring. it might stop you soon from grabbing a nice cold beer. tracy shugart in the crazy de