>> winning a second term is 70% probability. stuart: i didn't realize there was 21. i was going to go with for the lowest possible number. those are the presidents who have served two terms. thanks, everybody. it's been a great week, susan, lauren, ashley -- >> mice to have someone -- [laughter] stuart: a pity about the market, but that's the way it is this friday morning, and that's what i'm going to hand off to neil, a 500-point loss for the dow, it's yours. neil: thank you very much, institute. a bear market, on the verge of it, certainly, for the dow jones industrials take about another 70 or so points to do that. again, a 20% fall from the highs. the s&p 500 and the nasdaq certainly already there, down 22% and about 30% on the nasdaq year to date. that is not including from highs. bottom line here, this is a huge selloff here and virtually every major stock sector has been affected.

we should also point out right now that we have better than 140 # s&p 500 stocks that have just reached 52-week lows, they include the likes of google and facebook, nvidia, intel, at&t, caterpillar, 3m, ups, an eclectic bunch even in the face of lower oil prices, in fact, what some are calling recession their oil prices. not getting any uptick from any of that. so getting pounded. let's get the realize with dan geltrude, gary kaltbaum. so, gary, what are we looking at here and for how long? >> every asset price, every data point, every economic statistic that was addicted to jay powell and 0% rates, this is the unwind. jay powell is not wanting to do what he's doing, he's forced to do what he's doing because of the inflation that he lit the fuse on -- neil: you think he's going overboard? >> not yet. he's still way behind. the 1-year is over 4%, he's

still at 3. the 10-year is at 3.7, he's still at 3. so market rates are still way above it. neil: and generally, you don't want that to be the case. one's got to catch up or down to the other -- >> he's got to be above to fight inflation, and what of here is just the unwind of that. i called what was going on at the time fantasyland on valuations and all the a bubbles, and now we're getting, i think we're going coast to coast. it is bear market central, and i suspect the break below june lows, an institution's going to know it, see it, and we've got another vicious leg down coming. if. neil: what are you looking at? >> i think the s&p's going to see 3,000, which i think we're at 37 right now. neil: that would be another 20. >> i really do believe that. yeah, because -- two things, target and fedex. these are not -- they're well managed companies the that missed guidance by miles, and

these are very important companies to the economy. i suspect there's many others that earnings are going to come down for the market, valuations come down. and you're seeing the market playing catch-up to it right now. there is a rhyme and a reason to all this, unfortunately, and the last thing to happen is on the reverse wealth effect is housing. that's heading down, and people are going to feel very less wealthy in the months ahead. neil: and we should say there's a survey out today that looks for housing recession that could send prices about 20% lower. again, there's no gospel fact here that has to follow that trajectory, but what do you think of that? >> well, i think it's going to, neil. if we look at the trajectory of interest rates, her going to continue to pound the -- they are going to continue to pound the value of real estate. and what's disturbing about that is most people, the average american who's a homeowner, that's where their wealth is. so they're really going to be taking a hit going forward. we see that the 30-year fixed as of today, i believe, was at

6.25. that's going to continue to rise, neil. i don't think it's going to take much time for us to be north of 7%. that's going to have a devastating impact on the real estate market. neil: so let's say it does have that impact and there's no place to run. people invest in real estate, i believe in the stock market and want to invest in that, but there's no place to go in this environment, right? gold isn't doing that, the strong dollar isn't helping that, so i'm wondering what do you tell clients? >> number one, gold's in a big bear market. we're the best of the worst out there. europe is still 0% interest rate. there's really no place to hide but cash, and the good news is cash was at 0%. and, by the way, cash at 0% caused a lot of this, and now you've got- year yield -- 1-year yields at 4%, riskless -- neil: even though in real terms you're still underwater, well, you haven't lost any principal,

right? that's the draw there, and that has never been the case for quite some time. >> and there's a lot of principal being lost now. and something else we haven't seen in ages is financial institutions fighting over each other to get you, to get their cds. so cds are now envogue, and you're going to see some high priced cds, so go have some fun -- can. neil: i wonder why anyone would jump to a cd? i know the $100,000 limit, which is lunch money for you guys, but when you buy a 1-year or a 2-year, you can buy as much as you want and no limit. is that going to actually compete with the very banks that are offering these tantalizing rates? not many, by the way. >> we're going to have to see how that plays out because as banks start to compete against each other for cds and get those deposits in, when we have treasuries, 1-year over 4%, a lot of people are being being scared out of the market, neil, and saying, hey, listen, this is

a great investment. and it probably is going to go even higher. if you look at the trend of what's happening here mt. market, neil, i don't see where it's going to reverse anytime soon based on interest rates. >> there's three huge words out there right now, competition for money. it's all changed now. and as markets keep going lower, they go more out of favor. cash in favor. neil: are we at a capitulation stage? is. >> i haven't seen any capitulation whatsoever. i haven't seen -- neil: do you have clients or anyone talk to you, you know, i just want out. i want to protect whatever the hell i've got left? because normally that is the turning point. >> all the smalls i'm getting -- calls i'm getting, what do i do? i got one early this morning from somebody who's brother -- you just tell them, if you're not sleeping at night, you own too much stock and act accordingly -- neil: does anyone say i've been beating down, it can't get much

worse, of course, you added the possibility of a 20% falloff from there here, so what do you tell them? i've already taken it on the chin, take more? >> well, the market's going to do whatever it wants to do. and in '0 # 8 we had a 56% drop in all asset prices -- neil: that was a meltdown. >> there's that opportunity. you've got to remember something, you had one man and his whims print $9 trillion and keep rates at zero which got the world running into assets of any kind to the point where i saw somebody pay $18,000 for an invisible up sculpture. that's how crazy things -- neil: i told my wife it was stupid, what are you doing? [laughter] >> i'm serious. that's how crazy it got, and and now you're getting that -- can getting that unwind, ask and i think we're still in the midst. neil: i guess i don't share all the gloom there only because i don't liken this to a meltdown.

i don't see the devil may care attitude certainly with real estate or people buying homes sight unseen and hen trading them, selling them, buying them again sight unseen, people approved for mortgages just on the basis of having a pulse. i don't see a lot of that craziness. now, it might be out there, and it doesn't dismiss the fact that a correction is in order. but what do you think? >> well, no, i don't think -- neil: because i'm using that as sort of, like, that litmus test, how real estate fares through this. because that is something that's pervasively more of an impact, i think, on the economy than the new york stock market. >> neil, i think that the fundamentals are a lot stronger right now than they were in 200- neil: can it save us a meltdown? >> it probably, it probably can. look, there's still quite a bit of demand out there even though we're seeing prices going up and we're seeing interest rates going up. look, congratulations on that $250 # million condo purchase, neil. neil: yeah, or well, tucker and

i were going at it. [laughter] i mean, he was going to put up like old oil paintings and -- but isn't that a sign of strength? >> of course it is. neil: yeah. someone's going to buy that, right? >> right. >> the one thing this economy is going from is the9 hard work of the american people in business with, but there's so much working against it right now. just had an administration that raised taxes coming out of a pandemic and into a fragile economy. that's not being talked about enough. and you had a major change in the structure of the interest rate environment not only here, but around the globe. you have countries that would never think of raising rates, raising rates now. neil: and by a lot, right? i mean, sweden a full point -- >> sweden! neil: -- switzerland, three-quarter withs of a point, bank of -- these aren't little, willy-nilly adjustments. >> the only country that hasn't is the japan, and the yen is is heading south like a new york

snicks' basketball scene. -- new york knicks basketball scene. -- season. everything's changed. the whole cost of capital industry has changed, and cost of capital is rising, and that affects earnings, that affects profits, that awe affects markets and here you go. >> let's hope, fingers crossed, let's hope that the experiment that's going on with the u.k. related to reverse ising the tax structure, lowering tax -- >> yea. >> right? neil: that was not the market's reaction or pound's reaction. >> well, let's see when that sets in, neil. neil: fair enough. >> not only that, going towards fracking and more energy production. perhaps if they can go in a different direction, our country will take some lessons from that and change course. doubt it. [laughter] neil: all right. the prime minister of great britain has outlined plans to put a freeze on i yahoo! tilt bills in edge -- utility bills in england.

the part of the tantalizing options she's offering is to freeze if levels where her now and also bring on some tax cuts, more oil production, sort of goose all of that. had little impact on the markets there where they continue tanking. that was the case for all of europe and virtually no, in fact, positive on the british 30u7bd which sunk to a nearly 40-year low. but everyone everyone's in a very breasting mood here -- depressing mood here. the dow now down about 631 points, nearly points away if now entering a bear market. we have an effective comment now coming from citi group that says you can kiss the santa rally good-bye. i don't know whether they talked to santa directly, but citigroup seems to be saying it's going to get worse from here. sometimes there's a confluence of opinion that builds, and if you look at all of that and say everything's saying the same thing, someone is wrong, but the

con contrarian investor here are some of the same folks that were warning about this like my friend gary kaltbaum in the midst of all of this runup to say, look, this is getting a little much. so, again, it depends on what your point of view is. you know, contrarians sometimes are right at the moment, but they become the majority in short order, and as ray dalio was saying with us a couple of weeks ago, sometimes the consensus is right if it eventually moves toward where the contrarian was in the beginning. so if that doesn't confuse you enough, depress you enough, do consider what republicans have put together. he was their own plan for america, by america to help america, and a lot of it is all pegged to the midterm elections but 46 days away. alexandria hoff joining us right now in pennsylvania with what they're planning to do. >> reporter: hi, neil, good to be with you. yeah, we're about 25 miles south of pittsburgh, and this is where

republicans pitched their new direction. they're really trying to prove to americans that certain issues that leader mccarthy says democrats have created could be reversed. and goal number one is to rein in that spending. >> this is what we'll do. but on that very first day that we're sworn in, you'll see that it all changes. because on our very first bill, we're going to repeal 87,000 irs agents. >> reporter: yeah, that got big aa. [applause] here today. and on top of the promise to reinvigorate the economy, including securing a nation that is safe, a future built on freedom and a government that's accountable. mccarthy highlighted the party's plan to secure the border in addition to becoming energy independent and being -- building an education system equipped with a parents' bill of rights. that was another big talking point as hay took -- they took a question and answer phase. plans to create a special

committee on china and facilitate the hiring of 200,000 additional law enforcement agents nationwide. dell crams, of course -- democrats feel these promises are still too vague, citing issues a a -- as abortion as issues. this morning just a few miles away, steny hoyer spoke at an event at the united steel workers union headquarters, and he said this about vote earth: -- >> they don't want with extremistism that seeks to tear america apart. they don't want empty rhetoric, piece pieces of america, contract -- don't give me a commitment, do it! >> reporter: now, the 30 republican house members who were here today say they want to do just this if republicans take the control of the majority. and something else interesting, neil, that was displayed here today is really the spectrum of republicans that are behind this. leader mccarthy said he hasn't heard of any member so far who

have objected to this proposal. neil? neil: thank you very much. could this help an economy and a market that sorely needs the help and the pickup? so far again the reaction to this, not that the markets would move on my of this for the time being because republicans are not in charge of the flee branches of government, they hope to get at least in charge of two of them, the house and senate, in a little bit more than six weeks from now. but for the time being, it's too soon to tell. kathy mcmorris rogers with us now, congresswoman, sits on the house energy and commerce committee, ranking member, all of that. congresswoman, very good to have you. >> thank you, neil. neil: there is a fear here that we're slipping into something pretty bad. the dow very close, just about at bear market territory, the lowest in a couple of years. ditto the s&p 500 and the nasdaq. now, the biden administration, unlike the trump administration, doesn't focus on markets. do you think it should? >> i think they should certainly pay attention to the market, they should pay attention to

rising inflation, rising energy costs that are making it harder for american families, and this is -- and we have one-party rule right now in washington, d.c.. president biden and the democrats have majorities mt. house and the senate. -- in the house and the senate. and what the republicans are putting forward and what leader mccarthy and my colleagues and i are rallying around is this commitment to america. and it is a commitment to create an economy that's going to be strong, a nation that's safe, a future that's built on freedom and a government's that -- government that's accountable. and we are addressing the issues that are on american minds and hearts and what americans, families are facing, you know? you talk about what's going on in the market, so we continue to see rising inflation and rising energy costs and holding big tech accountable, stopping the surge of fentanyl. today, neil, i'm sending letters to the, many of the big tech companies like tiktok, snapchat

and instagram and telling them that they need to do more to stop the fentanyl sales that are killing our children. i know families, i mow parents -- can i know parents, many in my own district who have lost their kids to fentanyl, just one pill that they buy on these platforms. and under section 230 these companies are to stop the criminal activity. and instead they've been more focused on censoring conservative speech online. neil: i understand that, and those are very worthy causes, congressman, to put it mildly. but in this environment where inflation is running out of control and it's the number one issue for most americans, many of your colleagues are saying today we're going to stop the spending, we're going to stop, you know, adding more hisly to the miserable spending -- misery to the miserable spending. but in that plan and some of the things you folks have discussed, there will be some more

spending, right? so where do you draw that line? >> well, the spending that we have seen in recent years is, it is, like ors it is out of control. the congress is basically signing these blank checks. it's trillions and trillions of dollars. and it is, it's impacting the money supply, and it's what's driving the inflation, the rising costs, rising energy -- the. neil: so you would stop that. there would be no big spending initiatives? if you are open to tax cuts and that sort of thing, could you maybe elaborate on that? because that's what they're proposing now in great britain. >> well, in part, yeah. and i, i think that, you know, we want to make the tax cuts permanent, for example. we mow the formula -- we know the formula that was in place before covid of bringing down, reducing, you know, the tax cuts, lifting the regulatory burden. the number one barrier to doing anything in america right now that is the crippling mining,

manufacturing processing, any energy projects is the regulatory burden. so we need to cut taxes, we need to lift the regulatory burden, we need to say yes to american energy. we need to unleash american energy. this administration has, is at war with american energy. they are shutting down american energy -- neil: no, i see where you're coming from, but i just wallet to be very clear, and i know you're looking at tax cuts to do just that, cut back on regulations. some fear that anything like that in the near term, near term, will make deficits worse, will give, you know, inflation still more chance to continue surging. are you worried that the very policies you're looking at could do that? at least near term? >> i would -- the policies that are driving inflation now are the policies that president biden and the democrat majorities in the house and the senate put in place since day one. and i would point to where we were before covid under

president trump. we had a surging economy. we had people coming off the sidelines going to work, and we know this formula works. so i would -- we need to get spending under control. neil: well, what do you think you would cut? what's the paris thing you would go after -- first thing you would go after? >> well, there's a long list. neil: could you give me a couple of things? >> okay, okay. 87,000 new irs agents certainly has been top of mind. in the latest in this so-called inflation reduction act they tripled, neil, the epa's budget. tripled it. neil: so you would cut the epa budget, you would get rid of the planned increase in, you know, irs agents. that might be a start, but we would still have a lot of things to cut, right? >> we need to get the government, we need to get spending under control. and the energy and commerce

committee, we need to be doing our oversight. we need to be, you know, we need to be -- oversight of cdc. cdc has never been authorized. for examplar -- ferc, we need to get these agencies before the committee -- neil: you would. all right. there's a lot packed there, and we're going to continue unpacking it. thank you very much, congress congresswoman. ing the dow down about 620 points right now. say with us. ♪ ♪

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develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. neil: all right, just want to spell out what's going on here, fears that there's ono there there, no way to look at the light at the end end of the tunnel or mistake it for an approaching train. all the major averages down substantially on what is an awful week, an a awful month and, well, an awful year to date. these losses hold today, officially back in a bear market. down 20% or more from highs, the classic of definition. so the lowest it's been in the better pat of two years -- part of two years. the nasdaq off about 35% from their respective highs, the technology-rich average, which is why i wanted to bring in my pal susan li on all of this, because she knows that group very well and all the ceos that dominate -- >> i feel like you've

interviewed everybody over the last 20 years. neil: well, i think you've had some pretty good names yourself. when you talked to tim cook and you weren't too far from here with the release of the new iphone, 14? >> yeah, 14. neil: and big demand for the expensive versions, so people were plunking that down. is there a disconnect between what's happening with technology stocks and what's happening in the case of apple to its products? well received and is well paid for. >> there might be a disconnect between how the stocks are performing and consumer sentiment because you saw it yours, there were line-ups. first time we've seen it in three years, but i think there's a disconnect because stock markets, wall street is reacting to the treasury yields. we're looking at the highest now in ten years n a decade, at 3.7. you heard from the federal reserve and jay powell who says i'm very serious about raising interest rates to clamp down on inflation, kill inflation -- neil: and this hits technology

stocks disproportionately -- >> of course. neil: it is what it is, and it's market lore that rates go up, technology stocks go down. you talk to people who say this is overdone because rates are still going to go higher. >> i would a make the argument that, yes, you're getting more guaranteed cash on 10-year government bills, but if you look at where apple is at 150, you're still holding higher hand you did during those june lows when you saw apple go down sub-140, right? neil: you were probably just a girl scout at the time, very young -- [laughter] but when we had the last meltdown -- >> we're talking about 2000? neil: yeah. the internet stocks and those that weren't making money would be punished, but there would be the survivors, the hamson -- amazons, ebays -- >> yeah, you're seeing that split right now. neil: who are those survivors? apple's one of them, right?

>> clearly, you're making $100 billion in profits each year for apple, same thing at cash cow by microsoft, the amazons and the like. i think meta is a big question. do you know what it's trading at? i was so shocked when i saw the price to equity ratio e -- neil: i know. >> only at 12 times. neil: that means he's lost, what, $70 billion? >> exactly. and some would say, look, 12 times price to earnings, which is cheap for a company like meta, you wouldn't be shorting that type of stock. now, would you necessarily go long in that transition? neil: let the market do the work for you. this i do remember from the meltdown, a lot of people delayed selling because they thought it was getting overdone when that meltdown was picking up steam. so i'm wondering if there's a new crop of investors now who want to keep and lock on to whatever gains they have if they haven't already gotten out -- >> you mean the retail crowd --

can. neil: yeah. now, that's why we wait for that, because that's capitulation, right? people say i can't deal with this. >> as i mentioned to you, i love listening to stanley, one of the best short sellers on the planet, and there's a brand new interview he did. he says usually you have, of course, when things look really dark, that's when things turn around. and when you see, by the way, big price to earnings and if also these earnings come down, that's when you see the bottom. neil: someone did a survey looking at the nasdaq 100, all the big technology names, that averaged out, it's still a rich trade. and i don't remember the exact numbers, susan, forgive me, but it's way down from what it was, down about 30, 35% -- >> pessimism. neil: some of those components cut in half. but as an aggregate, still rich. >> well, i mean, if you look at some of these i would say speculative the stocks, the twilios, the robloxs and even

rokus, you're down 70%. netflix down 60% on the year. that's when people are actually 24eug, okay, maybe there's some value in a stock that's come down so much. so if you're not making money, i think there's a bipurr if -- bifurcation of profitable companies and those that aren't making money. if you're not making money -- neil: and that was the beginning of the weeding-out process last time. the dow down about 700 points, session lows. there's a difference between not buying stocks and not appreciating that people are still buying these companies' products. >> yeah. neil: i'm wondering where the truth meets the road. >> and when does a stock market decline bite into the bottom line for consumers. when do they say, okay -- neil: it overdoes it on the upside and the downside. >> that's right. neil: when you were with tim cook and if all of that, obviously, so many of them are compensated disproportionately, if and their company's stock is

richly rewarding them, they're the first ones to tell you when they get worried. did you get any sense -- >> well, i was getting the sense, you heard about meta cutting 10% of their staff, google, you have to reapply for some of the jobs in different departments. there's talk that a apple is in a hiring freeze and really across the entire valley, and these are companies that have $100 billion in cash -- the. neil: explain to us what you do. >> adobe -- neil: was that it? if you have to tell your boss what you're doing -- [laughter] you're in trouble, right? by the way -- [laughter] i anchor a show here at fox -- >> only to reapply for your job, this is my resumé, i deserve my desk once again? neil: i'll just pack up now. [laughter] susan, thank you very much. susan li. she just came, hit the ground running. [laughter] that's what makes her brilliant. at the corner of wall and broad, we've got a major selloff as

susan outlined here, but there is a disconnect between what's happening with those stocks and what their customers are doing. now, the customers could catch down or up, however your view, to what the investors are doing or just the opposite. that's the big battle. we're all over it. stay with us. you're watching fox business. ♪ ♪

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neil: all right, before the selloff picked up steam here, it was really picking up steam abroad, particularly in britain. if ftse 100, which is the equivalent of our dow, sliding about 2%. by comparison right now, our market down about 2.33%. this was a european-wide phenomenon, extended to asia as well, again, on fears we're going are from bad to worse here. and in britain, that was despite news that the new british prime minister, liz trust, is going te

freezing utility bills, some, but not all, and also expanding oil production, oil platforms. she wants to vastly expand them. it did little to help the british markets. they fell about 2%. the pound at these levels is now at areas it wasn't at since i think the early 1980s when ronald reagan was president. you have to go back a long ways there. so hay call this in the financial markets baptism by fire for the new prime minister. nile gardiner knows that very well, happened to maggie thatcher when she took over in the form of craze craziness. former adviser of margaret thatcher, kind enough to join us right now. nile, great to have you, my friend. this wasn't received well by the markets, but to be fair to your new prime minister, they have not been very nice to any leader and any market and any country. they're in a sour mood, and it's global. what do you make of it?

>> well, neil, thanks very much for having me on the show today. and this morning in london the new chancellor of the exchequer unveiled a series of tax cuts, in fact, the biggest tax cuts since 1972 in the united kingdom worth about $45 billion pounds. a revolutionary move, frankly, by the british government. and, i think, a huge move in the right direction. so we have a british administration that is in favor of free markets, that is very entrepreneurial, it is in favor of economic freedom. they believe in cutting taxes rather than raising them. that, i think, is the right way forward. and so full credit to the prime minister for embarking on this new path which i do think is going to lead to a lot more investment flowing into the united kingdom, more money in everyone's pockets and less big government control. i think that's all a good thing. neil: but, you know, it's

interesting too, we've known each other a number of years, sometimes the markets can get it wrong, but they sold off on this. people forget in history the markets were selling off on ronald reagan's aggressive tax cuts when first applied because the "wall street journal" editorial pages were telling you we want tax cuts too, mr. president, but this is going, you know, off the cliff crazy. they were wrong, he was right. and i'm wondering if, that this initial response is ring aring my bells -- the ringing any bells, to you. >> yeah. i think that's absolutely right, neil. you're seeing a negative reaction in the ftse 100 today across the atlantic. i think there are concerns over rising inflation in the united kingdom. i think that's what's really driving this. but i think in the long run, these tax cuts are going to benefit the british economy. they're going to create jobs -- neil: she needs a response right away, right, nile? i mean -- >> yeah. neil: correct me on this, but

held look at a new election, or have to call a new election at around 2024, right? so she's got to start seeing some dramatic results like now, right? >> yeah. yeah. she's got basically, you know, two years really before likely next general election. and i think that, you know, truss has actually made a very, very good start because what she she has done here is broken, you know, the recent decades -- you've had a series of labour governments and also, of course, more recently theresa may, david cameron who have not been particularly conservative prime ministers. and bos johnson wasn't -- boris johnson wasn't great on the economic front -- neil: he actually raised taxes. >> yeah, correct. johnson raised taxes, increased government spending. liz truss is a thatcherite -- neil: is she though? because the rap on her was she budget. obviously, people change. ronald reagan himself was a democrat, i get that. but do party members stand by

her, think she stands with hemsome -- with them? >> yeah, i think so. she won a very tough contest in the conservative party campaigning upon thatcherite principles and the grassroots of the party overwhelmingly backed liz truss. there's a lot of faith and confidence, i think, and i think she has started well. she's sticking to her campaign promises, and that's always a very good sign here. but i do think the long-term trajectory for the u.k. based upon what we're seeing now with these tax cuts and more entrepreneurial approach, scratching a lot of regulations, for example, this is all going to benefit the british economy. it's going to be reap the benefits, think i -- i think, for taxpayers in the coming years. i'm very encouraged by what i see from the prime minister. this is a gutsy move, and this is, you know, these are the biggest tax cuts in 50 years in the united kingdom. that's a big, big step in the right direction, neil. neil: we'll watch it closely.

thank you very much, nile gardiner, good to see you. markets selling off myrrh from 2-3% across the board, similar developments here. it's sort of like catching a palling knife, best to stay out of the way. so most investors, everyone has their own algorithm, but you don't need an algorithm to say, you know what? i'm just going to step back a little while and let it do its thing. how long people do that could decide whether this turns into a bear market that it already is or an outright route, which it could be -- rout, which it could be as well. stay with us. ♪ ♪ go. go green. go wind turbines. go gorgeous reliable grid.

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shutdown. unthinkable only days ago, looking more likely as the days tick down to the end of the month and the fiscal year. let's go to chad pergram where things stand right now. >> reporter: hey, or neil. the fight over an accord with joe manchin for a pipeline in virginia and west virginia could spark a shutdown. democrat tim kaine supports expedited energy permits, but he has trouble with the mountain valley pipeline. >> it's acued -- accrued over 350 violations of water quality-related protection both in virginia and in west virginia. and it currently lacks several necessary federal authorizations to continue construction. i don't think congress should be in the business of approving pipelines or rejecting them. >> reporter: senate majority leader chuck schumer guaranteed manchin the permitting provisions would be part of an interim spending bill to avoid a government shutdown next week, but liberals are balking over

the inclusion. they're worried about the environment. bernie sanders is formally asking senators to oppose the manchin deal. manchin is not backing down despite what kaine says. >> tim is my dear friend. i i respect his decision, and that's all i can say. >> have you spoken to senator kaine about -- >> would you go against the c.r. if this ends up getting stripped out? >> thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> reporter: democrats need some republicans onboard to overcome filibuster, but gop members are mad at manchin. they believe he caved to vote yes on the democrats' bill last month. in exchange, manchin scored the pipeline deal. >> they don't want to give any reward to manchin, and they believe this was part of agreement that led to the passage of the reconciliation bill. and so it remains to be seen whether or not they'll stand up and help. >> reporter: chuck schumer scheduled a test vote on the plan for tuesday. that needs 60 yeas.

if it falls short, that could force democrats to strip out man. chin's deal to avert a shutdown -- manchin's deal to avert a shutdown october 1st. neil: all right, chad pergram on that. i cite some of these outside aberrant events like in washington, the shutdown, a akin to back in october 2008. some of you might recall there was an effort on to sort of shore up the banking system in the middle of a meltdown and a measure, a measure in the house, to try to shore up the banks. and it was voted down, it failed. well, that day -- it might have been overreaction in retroprospect, but the dow fell about 777 points. congress got back together within days, sort of tried another, to give it a go, passed it. the irony by that time was that we were well on our way with a continuing bear market that would send the dow another 6,000 points lower from that level. so sort of catering yourself to the markets is always risky too.

ignoring them can be very risky too. one of the things we're going to be exploring is the fact that president biden has prided himself on not obsessing about the markets' every tick and move, let's say like his predecessor did. we're getting increasing calls now from a number of investors ask and a number of big honchos saying maybe, mr. president, you should. because what's happening here is a reflection of what could be happening everywhere. stay with us. ♪ ♪

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neil: you know, oil prices are dropping a lot today. you know, a barrel now going for a little over $78. that is a big, big hit for oil right now, down about 5.5%. oil-related etfs are down a similar amount right now. the former bp chief scientist joins us now, former secretary of science in the department of energy in the obama administration. steve, very good to have you. i mean, there is this raging debate going on as to how much dealing with climate change, seeing friction between the white house now and the world bank that it's not doing enough, and david malpass is head of that, not doing enough to go

into this and fund this. but what do you make of that battle? >> well, you know, it's complicated. it's not only the science, but a lot of societal factors as well. remember that there are 6.5 billion people in the world who don't have enough energy, and right now fossil fuels are the most reliable and convenient way to get them that energy. neil: but we're not doing that, right in and that's the problem. >> no. nobody ever talks about that, right? it's only about emissions. and what about energy poverty, which is a much more real and immediate if problem can and actually soluble. neil: so i wonder, why don't we pith? it's something to say, all right, i don't want to look like we're doing a 180 here, i understand that. but times dictate to do a 180, rights? >> yeah. we need to worry about the reliability and affordability of energy.

we also need to be developing emissions-like technologies and then slowly deploying them so we don't disrupt society. neil: you know, steve, what i like about your position is it seems to be you're pro all energy, explore all options. don't exclude one for the other. am i reading that correctly? >> absolutely right. you know, we can't run the system on just wind and solar because there are long periods, up to two weeks, when they won't produce any electricity at all. so we need backup. and that's probably going to be some combination of nuclear and batteries. neil: now, europe's already blinking to its credit. it sees the reality. we are not presently. >> well, you know, our gas prices have gone up. we, of course, depend on a global -- can. [audio difficulty] which is coming down. but nevertheless, i believe as electricity bills start to go up, as the grid becomes less

reliable and as people are almost mandated to buy more expensive electric vehicles, ordinary people going to say, why are we doing all of this? neil: good point. steve coon anyone, thank you very much. -- steve koonin. the fear is it's going to lead to a recession, and nobody benefits. nobody. ♪ ♪ buying your first car. and buying your starter home. or whatever this is. but the things that last a lifetime like happiness, love and confidence... .. but you can invest in them. we believe that your investments should work harder for the future you imagine. and that's where our strategic investing approach can help. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. ♪ ♪

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