explain why it's problematic and possibly dangerous and hope more are taught life isn't happening behind the screens and what they see on their phones isn't always real and hope they can be taught to live in the present moment and socialize in person more instead of hiding behind the screens. friday will not be allowed to post on tiktok. occasionally you may find her on my instagram but she's not going to be able to bark commands at alexa and i'm pretty sure that she's going to be bet eric off for -- better off for it because i remember those days and they were pretty good. my big news starting monday, january 23, i'll be cohosting the big money show with brian brenberg and taylor rigs, "the evening edit" starts now. liz: democrat and the media waking up and gavin newsom accused of supporting open

boarders. he now finally agrees with gop governors that the white house overloaded california sending in immigrants on buses and planes. even biden's deputy attorney general warns the fentanyl crisis is a national security crisis and he's worried about the community and the president said everything is under control. foreigner chief speech writer for george w. bush, he is bill mcgern and andrew huff that worked at wow handout lab in -- wuhan lab in china and cara frederick and news week's guest. the house gop, look at this, they now threaten to subpoena the u.s. intelligence community after a bomb shell report alleges that misled voters on covid-19 links to china's bio-weapons research. gop house judiciary demands big

tech turn over documents on big cent correspondentship. do -- censorship and do they have their own network s? spies inside social media and house speaker nancy pelosi balks at new social bill banning government workers on tiktok using china to spy. blocking your money to be used for world capitalism just as ftx fraud d. i'm elizabeth macdonald and the evening edit starts right now. welcome to the show. we begin with stocks getting hit hard and fed signals and interest rates stay higher longer and we have recession fears, retail sales drop more than expected at start of key holiday shopping season and that's being blamed on inflation. now to this, trump's title 42 policy will go away within days and now day democrats are

finally waking up warning the system is about to break and hillary vaughn is at the white house with details. reporter: good evening, liz, title 42 going away next wednesday and that'll trigger a surge of migrants pouring across the southern border and reports put it close to 14,000 migrants a day expected to enter the country. the white house said they'll have more to announce next week on preparing for this surge but are blaming republicans in congress for not doing more to help them fix the border crisis even though democrats control both chambers. >> many republicans say over and over and over again that we need to do work at the border. that we need to secure the border but yet they refuse to work with us. reporter: the biden administration is having a change of tune on if the border is really secure. dhs secretary alejandro mayorkas went to el paso, texas, to meet with border patrol agents and was confronted about his insistence that the border is secure. a federal law enforcement agent that met with mayorkas telling the washington examer, they asked him why he's saying the

board service connected secure when there's no agents in the field. he had the nerve to respond that he never said the border was secure. republicanssay mayorkas is part of the problem. >> mayorkas had no creditability and he said the border is secure and we all know it's not. why would we give mayorkas money to secure the border when we don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. reporter: u.s. officials are considering changes to asylum program for venezuela that let people in cuba, haiti, and nicaragua apply for asylum abroad and fly here to the u.s.. liz. elizabeth: this keeps changing byes hour. great reporting. tony gonzalez from house appropriations is joining us and christopher from house appropriations. congressmen, you heard that report and now we have california governor gavin newsom agrees with ron desantis and greg abbott and governor newsom

said the biden white house is overloading california with "bus loads and plane loads of illegal immigrants and that the system is about to break". you're take on this, congressman? >> yeah, liz, thank you for having me on. what is happening at the border is anything but humane and orderly and pure chaos. in el paso right now, reminds me a lot of what happened in del rio a year ago. if you remember, there were thousands of haitians under that bridge. what also happen second-degree that the -- happened is the bridge between the united states and mexico was shut down and i worry that the exact same thing will happen in el paso meaning the people that are legally coming over, the people that the trade and commerce and people, the u.s. citizens going back to mexico to visit family members during the holidays, we're the ones being impacted. i got report from border patrol agents that are telling me there's over 50,000 migrants on the other side of the border staging and waiting for title 42 to expire in a few days.

elizabeth: say that number again, 50,000? >> 50,000 migrants waiting to come over as soon as title 42 goes away. elizabeth: we're hearing also 14,000 a day, lieutenant. this has been a problem that started exploding seven years ago. why are democrats and the media now suddenly waking up to the collapse at the border? >> well, liz, we're seeing the situation in full right now and historic numbers since day one and congressman gonzalez at the border numerous times and one thing that's crucial is visiting with people that live on the border and ranchers, law enforcement, border patrol agents to see the concern and change the stem of mass migration and we know since last year before the policies were completely changed when mexico was canceled and border wall construction was sleetly halted, that -- completely halted and now massive flows of people coming across and historic numbers of got aways and fentanyl coming across the

border and this is something that should have been addressed from the very beginning and it has not. the fact the federal government has not acknowledged there's a crisis shows you the priorities and that's where we're at today seeing the early intervention -r of people across the border. elizabeth: we're hear ago lot of rhetoric out of the white house press secretary. take a listen to biden's own deputy attorney general. she says fentanyl crisis is a national security crisis and directly related to the collapse at the border. and watch democrats in the media now finally report that the system is on the brink and democrats saying biden has to go to the border. he's never been. watch this. >> there were more deaths from fentanyl last year than from the wars in vietnam, afghanistan, and iraq combined. why isn't this a national security crisis? >> i think it is, norah, a national security issue and a public safety issue. i think it's a public health

issue. >> i don't think they're doing enough. i would love to have them visit and see firsthand the kind of support and relief that folks in these communities need from the federal government. >> i mean, it's extraordinary how collapsed our immigration system is and there's no resolution in sight here. >> i don't know, we just heard some of the horror stories that people face just when they get to mexico and trying to get to the u.s.. they're being kidnapped, starved, raped, extorted. that's just in mexico. i'm just wondering where is the urgency here and the outrage? elizabeth, congressman, what's your reaction? >> liz, this is their plan. we have seeing exactly their plan unfold. you know, what we need to do is tell them to stop, you know, here they're going to have title 42, the last remaining trump policy stripped away. it's been their plan from day one. clearly this plan is not working. i will be in el paso tomorrow, you know, visiting the border and highlighting some of the

things, but i'll be there for a funeral and border patrol agent that committed suicide. to date this year, 14 border patrol agents committed suicide. this is a problem. this is hurting our men and women in green and a large part has been caused by the biden administration. elizabeth: that's outrageous that the border agents are committing suicide, lieutenant. president biden collapsed the border. he got rid of numerous border policies and weakened others and now the biden white house is pushing for a cut in funding for detention beds in the ominous spending bills down from 25,000 to 34,000 as they're collapsing the border and getting rid of title 42. you know, he's also trying to go before the supreme court saying the white house should have sole dis-correction to release criminal illegal immigrants including aggravated felons and should have the power alone to do that. why? they're blaming congress and not

spending enough on detention centers asking for a cut in the beds. >> well, liz, that's the problem there and the fact it's a lot of finger pointing but it is the responsibility so secure the border to protect the american people and the state of texas is having to bear this burden as far as trying to secure the border. we're using every single state resource at our disposal with manpower, technology and infrastructure and the federal government is not doing their part and it is their responsibility. everything we've been doing since the very beginning of last year with border operations is state funded and manpower and everything is support of our federal partners of border patrol because they're overwhelmed and the federal government doesn't acknowledge there's a crisis this, is getting out of control. they don't have a plan in place. no plan in place for . elizabeth: why he has never been to the border. watch this. >> i guess i should go down but, the whole point of it iss i haven't had a whole hell of a lot of time to get down.

>> why go to border state, not visit the border. president biden: more important things going on. they will invest a billion dollars in new enterprise. elizabeth: seriously what is wrong with this presidency. there were 98 terrorists caught between the ports of entry. 380 encounters with terrorists, including multiple encounters and u.s. ports of entry last fiscal year. he has time to spend nearly a year's worth of weekends at vacation home in delaware, congressman? >> yeah, national security, border security is national security. it is exactly what is we're seeing. democrat representatives hosted vice president, welcome to the new ellis island in el paso. we're seeing what exactly they want. it is dangerous to all americans. it doesn't stop at the border. elizabeth: thank you so much. try to have a merry christmas fellows. have a good weekend.

i will be out tomorrow. have you on again soon. house republicans, they're threatening to subpoena the u.s. intelligence community after a bombshell report alleges that misled voters on covid-19 links to china's bioweapons research. plus a record number of americans now worried about the economy but the president says everything is under control? really? bill mcgurn, former chief speechwriter for george w. bush, he is next on "the evening edit" . and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go! why? why? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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elizabeth: okay, the white house getting ready to again give out free at home covid tests. americans they're going into the holidays, really worried about the u.s. economy. gerri willis has the story in new york. gerri? reporter: liz, a new "fox news poll" shows american families deeply worried about the economy, especially inflation. for example, nearly 3/4 say that inflation has caused their household financial hardship in the past six months. worse, nearly half say the economy will get worse next year. only 25% see it getting better. that is important because consumers account for 2/3 of economic spending and their expectations have a way of becoming reality. finally, despite the president's touting of his performance on inflation this week, well, people are not buying it.

the fox poll showing that a consistent 62% of americans disapprove of his handling of the economy. the worries have seeped into the boardroom. a new deloitte survey found cfo optimism about their own companies dropping for a third consecutive quarter. liz, back to you. elizabeth: gerri, great reporting as always. joining us now the former chief speechwriter for george w. bush. he is bill mcgurn. bill, always a pleasure having you on, merry christmas. what do you make of that story. the president is saying everything is fine when 2/3 of americans are living pay economic to paycheck? >> who are you going to believe, joe biden or your grocery bill? it is no great secret. we had jerome powell basically saying we got aways to go. i don't think anyone except for joe biden is saying we've got a handle on it. and everything that people do, the day-to-day expenses, is

getting more expensive and leaves them with less money left over at the end of the week. elizabeth: you know, sort of like they walk around with paper bags on their heads in d.c. and the white house. borrowing costs, interest rates are quadrupling. rates may now they have the

house, and the senate, we'll see if they force the democrats to pursue moderate policies. most important to block the huge spending bills and the same programs coming out of washington. >> not doing it now. senator ron johnson pointed out 4.4 trillion spent in 2019. since then more than 6 trillion. it popped up 36%. >> right. elizabeth: we added more than france and spain combined to the u.s. economy and americans are feeling it at the pump. feeling it. pete buttigieg, flying flights made by taxpayers 18 times to

swing states. took a paid vacation in portugal in september at the height of the potential rail strike. >> it is good to be transportation secretary, isn't it? he had maternity leave when i think "build back better" was being debated. and during rail trying goes to portugal, but gives a video making it look like he is in washington working. it tells you, maybes you wonder, do we need a transportation secretary? elizabeth: yeah. do we need a shake-up in d.c.? because the policies aren't working. >> yes. elizabeth: they big footed u.s. energy. they stepped on tens of thousands of jobs in the u.s. energy sector saying go coiled and u.s. energy can pull us out of recession just as it did under obama. bill mcgurn, thanks so much for joining us. merry christmas to you. good to see you again. >> liz, merry christmas to you. elizabeth: thank you. gop house judiciary, look at this story, they're demanding big tech turn over documents on

censorship. do the big tech guys have their own twitter file problem? new case spotlights evidence of spies inside of social media. the house gop threatened to s&p the u.s. intelligence community after bombshell report alleges it misled voters on links to china bio weapons research. dr. andrew haugh, he worked in the wuhan lab in china. he is on "the evening edit" next ♪

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in, house gop lawmakers are threatening to subpoena u.s. intelligence officials after a bombshell report alleged the intelligence community misled voters on covid-19 links to china's bioweapons research and there are conflicts of interest charges in this story as well. fox news rich edson, he has got the story in d.c. he has more. rich. reporter: good evening, liz. in a few weeks republicans assume control of the house and with it the power to s&p witnesses and documents. republicans on the house intelligence committee say they're prepared to use that authority especially if the u.s. intel community refuses to cooperate on its investigation into covid-19. in a new report, those republicans also claim, quote, there are indications that sars-covid-2 may have been tied to china's biological weapons research program and spilled over to the human population during a lab-related incident at the wuhan institute of virology.

the report cites suspected ties between china's military bio weapons research and scientists at the wuhan institute of virology. republicans admit they have found no smoking gun. >> you can call it circumstantial evidence, when it starts to mount up you certainly have more and more questions that need answers. reporter: republicans accuse of u.s. intel agencies stonewalling their investigation. last year the office of the director of national intelligence released an unclassified report on the origins of covid-19 saying quote, we remain skeptical of allegations that sars-covid-2 was a biological weapon because they're supported by scientifically invalid claims. their proponents do not have direct access to the wuhan institute of virology or proponents are suspected of spreading disinformation. republicans claim the intel community with held key information from the public in that report. they say intel agencies could declassify this information without harming national security.

odni spokesperson refused to come on the gop report. liz? elizabeth: great reporting as always. rich edson, this is such an important story, thanks so much. welcome to the show the former vice president of ecohealth alliance. he is dr. andrew huff. doctor, a pleasure having you on too. thanks so much for joining us. let's go through it, ecohealth alliance got funding from the government through the help of dr. fauci to work with the hue hahn lab in china, creating lethal superviruses. is china creating superviruses for bioweapons? >> well, yes, more so because of the definition of what a bio weapon is, is sort of confusing and there is gray area even within the united states. this whole premise of gain of function research where we're enhancing the pathogens virileness is permissible doing it for peaceful purposes. the problem these vie wusses can be used at a weapon at anytime.

we rely on the scientists and experts to define how they're using it whether or not it is for peaceful or nefarious purposes. elizabeth: do you feel like dr. fauci was keeping track of what was going on in the wuhan lab. >> oh absolutely, there is not without a doubt that dr. anthony fauci new what was going on the wuhan institute of virology. when i worked at ecoalliance dr. fauci was a frequent topic of conversation at ecoalliance including dr. peter dozen second. there is no way that dr. fauci didn't know what was going on. elizabeth: he downplayed in senate testimony he didn't know what was going on. can you say covid-19 was man made and likely leaked from a wuhan lab because dr. fauci is heatedly denying that at the start of pandemic. >> i would love to debate dr. anthony fauci at any point. here is my book, the truth of

about wuhan, i have 430 citations from government documents, patents, peer reviewed scientific literature lays it out in a factual matter. we laid this out, to the house and senate. my attorney and i laying all out definitely gain of function research. it is actually in a proposal we worked on at ecohealth alliance and submitted to the nih and it was funded by dr. anthony fauci when i worked there. this is really not debatable. furthermore, there is one smoking gun i can give your audience real quick. there is a genetic sequence patented by moderna in 2016 that was found in the wild circulating virus. the chances of that happening statistically, one in the billions. elizabeth: what do you mean by that. >> what does this mean? >> very simply, explain it another way. when the national disease emerged covid scientists went

out and sampled and collected samples of the disease. they then compared the genetics of that sample against this nih database called blast. blast has all these different genetic sequences in it. what they found was that the wild circulating virus that was new, this novel virus was an exact match, part of the sequence to a virus that was patented in 2016. elizabeth: there it is. that was created in a lab, that's it? >> correct. jackie: that's the story, that genetic sequence. that sequence was found in a lab but, in the moderna vaccine you're saying but not in nature? >> correct. jackie: okay. >> it has the spike protein. u.s. government it could to silence and sensor scientists like myself talking about this

when this research was publish the. liz: it is an outrage with pandemic with alleged supervirus is being squelched. gao, government accountability office doing a deep dive next year how the dr. fauci and government functioned gain of function research. dr. fauci is stonewalling media on this. the conflicts of interest, that u.s. intelligence basically, the same universities, non-profits that got supervirus research grants from the government, then may have downplayed to u.s. intelligence links between that and china's bay owe weapons reserve. get your take on dr. fauci in action. watch this. >> senator paul, with all due respect you are entirely and completely incorrect that the nih has not ever, and does not now fund gain of function research in the wuhan institute. questions have come up about the concern of the danger of people

that you fund. niaid, nih, certainly, cdc, only funds and conducts gain of function research on h5n1 highly pathogenic aviation influenza viruses. gain of function research is critical to understanding disease pathogen sis. >> you gave them money and said don't do gain of function research. >> correct. >> they said we won't. >> correct. >> and no way of knowing whether they did or not except you trust them, is that right? >> well we generally always trust the grantee to do what they say and you look at the results -- >> have you ever had a grantee lie to you? >> i cannot guarranty that a grantee has not lied to us. elizabeth: you're saying dr. fauci at the wuhan lab he knew was doing gain if of of of function research. >> he is sub director the naih.

he is the director of that agency. he ultimately approves all of these grants that we were applying for in, from his agency. so yes, he is aware of this. to say, related here, the case going on in the state of missouri with the attorney general where dr. anthony fauci recently deposed he lied there too. he said he didn't know dr. peters today second. he didn't know dr. ralph barrett. these are the top two performing scientists in his domain. for this man not to know these people, not know what they're up to, they're complete fabrications and lies. heck i posted a picture on twitter of dr. anthony fauci standing next to dr. peter dazek. but he doesn't know hoe he is. elizabeth: your book, it is a hot read. the truth about wuhan. dr. huff, come back on the show. good to see you. >> thank you.

elizabeth: house speaker nancy pelosi balks at new senate bill banning government workers from using tiktok. china alleges hly uses tiktok to spy on government workers. gop judiciary demands government turn over documents on censorship. former facebook official kara frederick next on the the even dead it. get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes.

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elizabeth: let's welcome back to the show former facebook official, kara frederick. good to see you again. you run the tech policy center at the heritage foundation. can you talk to us about this. what do you make of incoming house judiciary chair, jim jordan, he sent letters to ceos of apple, amazon, google, facebook, microsoft, saying turn over your documents on censorship? do they have all similar twitter files issues? >> oh, i would absolutely imagine they do and this is pitch perfect from jim jordan right now, as we know,

especially from working at facebook we look to other companies to see what they're doing before we tend to make moves ourselves. so this happened with facebook and twitter. this happened with the parler instance when it came to amazon and google and apple all working together, looking towards each other to make those decisions to cut off parler. i would absolutely think that these other companies are doing very similar things. we know that mark zuckerberg also admitted that the fbi came to him and said, be on the lookout for a propaganda dump in the form of hunter biden's laptop we can extrapolate. we know these companies do the same things as other companies. so they're probably going to have similar things under the hood. elizabeth: well maybe they need elon musk to buy them. just kidding. the spies on twitter story, a u.s. court today just sentenced a former twitter manager to reportedly 42 months in prison. he was accused of spying for saudi arabia out of twitter. you also have former twitter

security chief, pieter zatko, he sent the sec his report last august about china, russia, india, were trying to use twitter for information, basically infiltrating twitter to get sensitive data about users. what do you think of that? >> oh, i think he absolute correct, peter, goes by "mudge" in the tech community, he revealed a lot of what is going on in these companies when it comes to hard sigher risks we don't necessarily think about when it comes to social media companies and his testimony told us these holes are pervasive. frankly when i worked in silicon valley you have nationals from other countries in the open office floor plan next to you. you don't necessarily know what they're doing because it is all kumbayah. there is no real geopolitical cognition of potential espionage in those places. hopefully this is a wake-up call. doesn't seems like what "mudge" said resonated with top twitter

executives. elizabeth: terrific interview. thanks for joining us, kara frederick. have a merry christmas. >> liz, you too. elizabeth: more states are blocking, wall street using your money state pension funds for social justice, pet causes like the fraud at fix did. why did house speaker nancy pelosi balking at a new senate bill that would ban government workers from using tiktok? china allegedly uses tiktok to spy on government workers.

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♪. elizabeth: okay, there is a bipartisan push in the house and senate to ban china's popular social media app, tiktok on all government devices of the warnings are china is using the app to spy on americans and government workers. fox news's aishah hasnie on capitol hill with more. reporter: elizabeth, good evening to you.

we're getting closer to seeing some kind of a ban on the social media app tiktok but right now senator josh hawley's bill, which would ban tiktok on all government-issued devices is stalling in the house. it passed in the senate last night by unanimous consent but right now house speaker nancy pelosi will not commit to bringing this bill to the house floor before the end of this congress. >> she should make it a priority. let's not hide behind, she can do anything she wants. do it on the suspension list if she wanted to. she should make it a priority. reporter: while his bill stalls a separate bipartisan bill which seeks to ban the popular app outright was just introduced. senator marco rubio and representatives mike gallagher and roger krishnamoorthy are leading a charge to ban all transactions of any social media company in or under the influence of china, russia,

several other foreign countries of concerns. chairman of the intel committee senator mark warner, maybe there is a way to keep tiktok around and have the justice department regulate it. >> this is not a all-bad platform but there are huge risks. some folks inside of justice we can find a way to allow the creativity without creating these risks. reporter: liz, it looks like democrats and republicans want to do something about tiktok, but as urge time is running out. elizabeth. >> what a story. aishah hasnie thank you so much for your great junenallism. joining news week's batya ungar-sargon. speaker pelosi doesn't like some of the language in the senate bill, it isn't clear what she is talking about. senator dick durbin is telling americans don't use tiktok. it's a national security risk. fbi director christopher wray identified this is a national security risk. that the chinese government

could harness or control people's devices through tiktok. that is what the fbi director says. what is your take on the story? >> i have to say, you see once again the democrats are soft on china, both from a national security point of view and from a domestic policy point of view. look who is at the forefront of this, josh hawley, marco rubio. these are populist wing of the gop party. they understand that china is a huge threat from a national security point of view and a huge threat from a domestic jobs point of view and they're really hammering it home and credit to them. elizabeth: batya, georgia, idaho, utah, a growing number of states banning tiktok on state government devices because of national security concern. so why the foot dragging in d.c.? >> they don't see china as a threat. i don't understand why. i think it has a who the base is, the base is elite. they like cheap products. i will add people who are worried about china and national

security and social media, keep an eye on elon musk. elon musk is deeply embedded with the ccp. every single inch of his supply chain is in china and now he owns the public square. this is something to be very worried about. elizabeth: so what, what concerns you most about twitter there? >> i would say that you know, every time the ccp has asked elon musk to do something he has said yes, including storying datas from teslas in china where it is subject to ccp surveillance and censorship. he has never said no to the chinese communist party. he is the biggest here leader in america. elizabeth: how do you know elon musk is embedded in china. >> his entire supply chain. every battery from tesla is made in china. what happens when they come to him and say we want you to shadow ban the word uyghur.

we don't know. elizabeth: we don't know. >> true. elizabeth: getting back what is going on with tiktok, do you feel people are up to speed in the government how serious this is? we've been reading, studying, what christopher christopher wray and fbi is warning about tiktok. >> tiktok is dangerous. the chinese communist party is banned in china. you want to know why? look at a child's face on the app. not just about the fact they can invade your phone, see everything on your phone while on tiktok. this is a total assault on your culture, on our values, on our young people. they don't let their young people to use it. they want our young people to be totally addicted to it. this is a real threat and kudos to senator hawley and senator rubio for recognizing that. because the democrats they just don't get it when it comes to china. elizabeth: got it. batya ungar-sargon come back soon. merry christmas to you. >> merry christmas. elizabeth: more states, more states are blocking wall street,

using your money, things like state pension funds for social justice causes, pet causes. just like the fraud at ftx did. its ceo accused of blowing investor money on his pet causes. lead prosecutor in the bernie madoff case joins us on "the evening edit." >> look, i'm covered here by the hatch act, limited what i can say. anything connected to political contributions from here i, i would have to refer you to the dnc. ♪. ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours,

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elizabeth: with us now is mark leadership, lead end deputy u.s. attorney in the criminal investigation of disgraced fraudster, bernie madoff. it's good to see you. >> nice to see you. elizabeth: when you saw ftx fraud explode and learn comparisons to bernie madoff, what were your reactions to all of that? >> first of all, it brought me back 14 years almost to the day when the madoff fraud broke. but what's viking to me are the -- striking to me are the differences between madoff and bankman-fried. what's alleged currently happened in a markedly unregulated market, more of wild

west, whereas what madoff did occurred in a very highly regulated securities market. the current case took place over 2-3 years, madoff was over decades. the victims are different. or appear on, i imagine anyway, in the realm of cryptocurrency you probably have more sophisticated investors, younger investors. in the case of madoff, i think it was much more diverse, a lot of older people, people who had been, families who had been with him for decades. there were, of course, sophisticated investors, but the victims included unions, people who doesn't even know they were investing in madoff and the like. another key difference, madoff did this through a registered broker-dealer, so it was fortunate for victims that there was insurance, and they were partially insured for some of their losses. in this case there's no insurance. those are the things that struck me as being different.

the similarity the, of course, is that proud is fraud -- fraud is fraud. and fraud, whether it's done through the marketplace of cryptoto currency or if it's done in the marketplace of securities, it's fundamentally the same. it involves a person making promises, making representations to investors to get them to part with their money and then not living up up to their the promises. that's financial fraud pure and simple, and that's what's alleged in this case and just about any financial fraud if case you'll ever see. elizabeth: theaway post is -- "the washington post" is saying that d.c. is trying to distance itself from sam bankman if fried. somehow this 30-something who just wears t-shirt was able to buy influence, political donations, something like 40 million to the democrats, 20 million to republicans.

basically spending investor money on pet causes to make himself look like the good guy. i mean, this is just straight out embezzlement, as the ceo of the ftx bankruptcy said, and we see same thing with a lot of states blocking their pension money for social justice or environmental -- it just feels there's a scam that's going on, this is old-fashioned embezzlement that happened with ftx. >> well, the sec has certainly alleged embezzlement. i'm not sure how that a fits into the controversy about esg and how mr. bank bankman-fried might have used esg as a marketing tool to attract investors who are interested in that. campaign finance allegations are unusual, in my experience, for financial fraud cases, and those are potentially the most explosive and different

allegations that may make what's alleged here different from frauds that have come before it. but again fundamentally, you know, the esg concerns, they're not mentioned in any of the charging documents. i don't think they were fundamental to the fraud -- elizabeth: no, it's separate from that. he was doing what's called effective alterrism. the campaign finance operations, do you think he's going to see a lot of jail time? you've got 10 is seconds. >> we'll see, but if he is convicted, one way or another he's looking at more than 20 years almost guaranteed. elizabeth: mark, you're terrific. thank you so much for watching. i'm liz macdonald. we hope you have a good evening and join us again tomorrow night. muck. kennedy: hello and welcome to thursday. the greatest day of your life. is covid a chinese bioweapon, and if it is, how did it get out? republic