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monday, monday, so good to me ♪ >> gerry: yes, monday-monday a little bit of a gloomy monday, but welcome back to the second hour of cavuto "coast to coast." i'm gerry baker in today for neil cavuto, but a very busy hour ahead. rising recession fears are dragging on the markets today, as we start off off the final full trading week of the year. we'll take a look at what's driving those markets, plus, ftx ceo sam bankman-fried's court hearing is just about ending in the bahamas with the prosecution calling proceedings "incredible ." we'll tell you why. and the clock is ticking on title 42 leaving many concerned about how they will be able to handle the expected influx of migrants. new york city mayor eric adams is warning that the big apple will not be able to handle the surge. all right we have a lot to get

through so let's get started our top story today, twitter users are waiting to see if elon musk will make good on his promise and step down as ceo after a majority polled said he should go. he asked forward that poll by the way as the social media company continues to release more of those twitter files. fox business madison alworth joins me with the details. what's the latest any word on what's going to happen to elon musk? reporter: so we're still waiting on the news from elon musk and in the meantime twitter continues to make news with the latest twitter files. part seven continues to be dropped. it started to drop about an hour ago. it details how the fbi and intelligence community actively campaigned to discredit factual information around the hunter biden's foreign business dealings, pushing the idea of foreign influence on twitter, and fbi's internal influence on the platform, so this latest drop comes from journalist michael shallenburger laying out evidence of how then-site integrity constantly received

attempts from the intelligence community to first like i said censor the biden happen top story and it also details how they actively tried to gain access to private information outside of legal means, and finally, the thread details the pipeline of fbi employees that went on to work for twitter the group even creating their own private slack channel within the company to communicate. this informational dropping as we, of course wait to hear if elon musk is going to listen to the twitter public, and step down as ceo. the new owner of twitter put his decision up to a poll you're se. it closed roughly seven hours ago. we've still yet to hear from him a little over half, 57% of the 17 million accounts that voted say that musk should, in fact, step aside. this all comes after controversy at the digital public square. musk has got en heat for widespread firing of employees and suspension of journalist accounts as well as other accounts and before he released that poll

musk tweeted an apology and stated that major policy changes will be handled by vote. of course, followed up by that said vote and the vote is in. we are just waiting for musk and you know, something tells me that we're going to get that news via twitter and as soon as we get it we'll be sure to share it. gerry thank you, madison. a fascinating precedent for companies all around the world, if they start deciding whether they should be fired by twitter polls. i don't see it coming but who knows we could all get a say. madison alworth thank you very much indeed. ftx sam bankman-fried meanwhile appeared in court today saying he wants to see the indictment against him before agreeing to be extradited to the united states. meanwhile, lawmakers and campaigns are distopian distancing themselves looking to unload millions in donations from the disgraced founder. hillary vaughn joins me now with the latest. hillary? reporter: hi, gerry well ftx founder sam bankman-fried is rethinking his decision to fight extradition to the u.s.. he is behind bars right now in

the bahamas but showed up in court today to request to see the indictment against him before agreeing to be removed to the u.s.. there are reports that bankman-fried appeared disheveled in court, kept his head in his hands while shaking his knees during the proceedings while bankman-fried considers his options, democratic campaign groups he gave millions to are weighing their options looking to give back about $1 million in donations. the democratic party's three top campaign groups say they are setting aside campaign donations from bankman-fried, the dnc saying "given the allegations around potential campaign finance violations, by bankman-fried, we are setting aside funds in order to return the 815,000 in contributions since 2020. we will return as soon as we receive proper direction in legal proceedings." the new york times reports that federal prosecutors in manhattan are also pouring over bankman-fried's political donations for possible clues that might help their case against him. several lawmakers who received

cash have told me they are giving it to charity but that might be a problem. >> the department of justice has incredible strength when it comes to seizing money they identify as the fruit of fraud, so for those campaigns that think they are going to donate to charity, that's not going to happen, if they've been put on notice that the money is connected to sam bankman-fried. reporter: so, this $1 million total from the top three democratic campaign groups is really just a drop in the bucket , gerry. bankman-fried donated over $45 million himself to democratic campaigns and candidates. gerri? >> gerry: thank you very much, more signs of housing trouble with homebuilder sentiment dropping for the 12th straight month to the lowest level since 2012. lauren simonetti joins me more with other business headlines. lauren? lauren: gerry it was pretty bad. as you noted, right. homebuilder sentiment surprisingly fell two points.

the level is 31, that's for the month of december, and as you noted, it has fallen an unprecedented 12 months in a row standing at the lowest level since 2012. builders are citing high rates, the high cost of materials, as roadblocks. sentiment one year ago, 84. so in one year we went from 84 to 31. that is astonishing. there is a reason to be optimistic. we might be nearing the bottom. look here, mortgage rates are hovering around 6.3% versus 7% just a few weeks ago. did you see it over the weekend? the long-awaited avatar sequal? it brought in $134 million domestically in its debut weekend for disney. sounds like a lot of money but hollywood was banking on more, and the director, james cameron, has said avatar, the way of water, will need to make $2 billion just to breakeven. disney has not disclosed the cost. two problems here number one, people might be nervous to go back to theaters and number two it's long.

three hours and 12 minutes, right before christmas. you might have other stuff to do look at this , disney shares down 3.5%. meta shares are also down. the european union says meta is likely breaking anti-trust laws related to facebook marketplace. it claims meta has distorted competition like time marketplace, that's its classified ad verse to its social network by automatically giving facebook users access to it. that's an abuse of its dominance position. so, the commission is investigating further, but it could impose a fine of up to 10% of annual revenue and that annual revenue is about $118 billion last year, meaning those fines could be upwards of $11 billion potentially, gerry, not good news for meta down big time. >> gerry: no, the tech sectoral over having a hard time ending the year, must be pretty miserable year, lauren thanks very much indeed for joining us.

markets are sliding today as investors mull recession risk john lonski, let's see if ceo's polling their customers, clients to see whether or not they should quit? >> absolutely not. i think that's highly unlikely to happen, and i'm doubtful that elon musk is going to go ahead and resign from twitter, because of the outcome of this poll. >> gerry: its been a very rough year for the tech sector. we've seen huge stock declines, some of those meta is down nearly 70% i think that i looked at google is down 30%, amazon is down 50%. they are laying off workers. is this 2022 been kind of a turning point for the tech sector do you think? >> oh, i think it is. you won't see the top growth you observed in the past. these have become very large mature companies. they will have difficulty growing much faster than the overall economy. when i look ahead i see nominal gdp growth, maybe averaging, maybe nothing more than four to 5% over the next five years.

>> gerry: and we should also wait and see what's going to happen to sam bankman-fried. i know you've talked a little bit about this before, that some people are saying look this just shows the people that jamie dimon are right, that cryptocurrency is all a big ponzi scheme and people are just being calm and it's all a bigger fool theory. other people say no, no, no, fraud happens and it happens ein every field and every sphere. there is a real business but what's your take on it? >> well you know, i'm fascinated by this blockchain technology, but not as serving as a basis for a new currency. in my mind, you still have a situation where nothing backs cryptocurrency. bitcoin, you know, of course now we're getting a good example of how we got the crypt in cryptocurrency. this is really been -- >> gerry: it's buried. we'll see what happens. i like the way he's demanding to take a look at the extradition, the in --

indictment he may not have much to say in the extra business when it comes down to it. on to the housing you heard from lauren about terrible homebuilder sentiment. we were talking the previous hour about how bad this recession is next year. does look like housing is in for a pretty rough time. you've seen these huge increase in interest rates, decrease in homebuilder sentiment. how bad do you think the housing slump is going to be? >> housing has a big affordability problem. not only are mortgage yields very high, so are prices themselves. home prices, perhaps, have to come down 10-15%, in order to stabilize housing, but not only do home prices have to move lower. so should mortgage yields and that's going to take sometime. last time we had a stable housing market, 2017-2019 the average 30 year mortgage yield 4.2%. oh, right now, it's down from nearly 7% to 6.3%, but 6.3% is a couple of percentage points higher than what might be necessary to stabilize housing.

one mildly encouraging ease of news, i don't know if you saw it but my piece on the "wall street journal" had an interesting story this weekend saying compared with the big housing downturn that we saw from 2006- 2008, there is households are in much better financial shape in terms of the size of their mortgage relative to the value. there's very very little risk of significant amounts of people being under water with their mortgage and negative equity partly because lenders got so much more restrictive and it's very very hard to get one of those 95% no documents loans in the past few years. that could put a bit of a flaw under the housing market? >> yes, it could, that's a positive condition. now we have a housing market; however, i'm worried about the fact that we have such a high ratio of the market value of owner occupied housing to disposable personal income. right now, the market value of housing 2.2 times income just

prior to the housing collapse. that ratio average about 2.35, went up to 2.4 times. a healthy ratio be something closer to 1.8 times so we still, you know, home prices are very steep, relative to income, and the only way you can justify that is going back to much lower mortgage yields at around 4.2% as opposed to today's 6.3%. >> gerry: john lonski always good to hear your incites happy holidays, enjoy the break. well, coming up the push to ban tiktok, indiana's attorney general is taking the social media company to court, accusing tiktok of making false claims about the safety of user data. he's here to make the case, after this. ♪ ♪

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is one of the fastest growing mobile services, now with over 5 million customers and counting. get in on the savings and switch today. gerry: there's a growing wave of efforts to ban or limit tiktok rips through washington, the white house is dodging the issue of whether the app should be banned for national security reasons. fox news white house correspondent peter doocy joins me now. what's going on, peter?

reporter: gerry based on what we're hearing from members of congress the argument about whether or not to have a broader ban of tiktok isn't much of an argument at all. >> the question we have to is ask is whether we want to give the ccp the ability to track our location, track what websites we visit, even when we're not using the tiktok app itself. reporter: tiktok is replying to this. it is troubling that rather than encouraging the administration to conclude its national security review of tiktok, some members of congress have decided to push for politically motivated bans that will do nothing to advance the national security of the united states. tiktok is loved by millions of americans who use the platform to learn, grow their businesses, and connect with creative content that brings them joy. we've seen groups of tiktok influencers here at the biden white house for creators, briefings about big policies, so this white house enjoys the tiktok platform and its

reach, even if they are not post ing from federally- controlled phones. >> there are a range of tech applications and products that are not allowed to be used on the white house and other federal government work equipment for security reasons, including tiktok. we will not go into any further details about security policies that we have here, but i'm not going to get into the process. reporter: so they really don't have anything bad to say on camera about tiktok, but if there is a broader tiktok ban, then white house officials might have to rely more on a platform they have said bad things about lately, twitter. gerry: peter just briefly, it does sound as a very ambivalent position. they do like the reach tiktok gives them and they use those influencers but they won't let people post from tiktok, they seem to be undecided about whether to support this legislation, to ban tiktok on capitol grounds too. if this is a security risk which a lot of people think it is why don't they just come out and make sure people limit the

access people can have to it reporter: that's a great question and we know that white house staffers are not allowed to have tiktok on their white house phones but we haven't heard anybody at this white house say that every white house staffer is forbidden from having tiktok on a personal phone. we don't have that information yet, and it would stand to reason that there are some folks here at the white house that have tiktok, because they have to reach out to these influencer s and figure out what's going on on this platform that they are trying to reach people on and so there's a lot more to this story and we're hoping, there's a briefing next hour. we're hoping to get more information then, gerry. >> gerry: peter doocy at the white house. our next guest filed two separate lawsuits against tiktok accusing the company of making false claims about the safety of user data. the indiana attorney general general is here. senator thank you very much for joining us. what's your big concern about what tiktok is doing? >> well, thanks for having me on, gerry. we're going to use indiana's

deceptive consumer sales practices act to get at this company that makes hundreds of billions of dollars in profits off our kids and off our data, and they do that without telling indiana consumers that they're doing this , and they deceptively tell indiana consumers that their 12-year-old s are okay to use this app, and that is far from the truth. neither is correct. i mean, unless you have a child who you think needs to learn about becoming a stripper, learning how to do other sex acts, or contemplating suicide, or something like that, so this is very serious, these people are making money off of it and it's deceiving indiana consumers. we hope, gerry, this is going to be a bell weather case and other states will join in so we can have immediate relief while we wait for congress. >> gerry: so that's the question. first of all again you want to do two things. you want to change the age

classification so that the content that is clearly intended for mature audiences is reaching only mature audiences and is restricted from younger audiences which doesn't happen at the moment and the other thing you want to do is force tiktok to you're challenging tiktok in its claim that users data is held secure from the chinese government but we know the way chinese companies operate. they are essentially controlled, very different from companies in a free country. they are answerable to the communist party. what's the solution here? isn't it in the end the solution the only real solution is to actually stop tiktok from operating in the united states? >> you know the real solution is for us to be patriots. i mean, honestly. we know you're right. you accurately describe what china is up to. they said it themselves. we should get tiktok off our phones. we should get it away from our kids and we should do things that protect america, and make us strong and not cave in. now that everyone's learning

what this company is about, that the ccp is a partner, is the overlord of this company, get rid of tiktok. so ultimately, my lawsuits are driven to do that. to remind us of our patriotism, change behavior and under indiana law right now as it's written the stake is $5,000 per deceptive instance, so that's hundreds of millions of dollars that we could at least fine them if not more but the real goal is to change behavior. >> gerry: just very briefly. what are the big app platforms? obviously gag l and apple. what do they say when you're trying to press them and pursuing this approach? >> well, we just wrote up them a letter as well. these are the distributors you're saying and asking them to stop distributing because they are aiding and a betting the deception but we're on to them too. >> gerry attorney general rokit a, thank you very much for joining us. trouble ahead for small businesses, companies who

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gerry: many small businesses that took federal pandemic aid just to stay afloat are now on the hook for repayment, and with those small businesses also grappling with inflation over 7% another economic challenges, those loan payments could not come as a worst time. fox business chief national correspondent connell mcshane joins me with more. so connell we had ppp loans various other forms of support. what's particular about these small business loans? connell: these were literally designed gerry, if you remember to avoid disaster. it was in the name. they came from the small business administration' office of disaster assistance, so you

know a lot of people look at it now and maybe didn't think the money be coming due at an even more disastrous economic time you could argue for some of the businesses but in many ways that is what's happening. a lot of small business owners took out these low interest rates when the pandemic hit and it was separate to gerry's point from the ppp, and they deferred payment up until now. to give you an example tony wrig ht owns a marketing agency in texas and he has just started paying $1,600 a month on his $150,000 loan. >> things are worse now than they were during the pandemic because of inflation and supply chain issues is now the proper time to have business owners start paying these loans back, but every single business owner i've talked to is in the same boat. connell: that's the point. it's not just tony. the numbers when you look at them this is a lot, $390 billion about in loans dished out through about 4 million borrows

from sba, and if you look at the terms you see why they took the money, 30 years 3.75% on an interest rate for small business . if you're a non-profit it was even lower 2.75% so people like tony just jumped at the chance and sent a picture of him doing businesses when in-person conferences were still a thing for his marketing business. he says the loan was great because he was able to avoid layoffs and his company has 20 employees didn't have to lay anybody off but now the ad market which he relies on has gone south and it's coming at a time just as the bill is coming due and around the country, you have about a million loans coming due this month, a million more next month, so it's another cost increase for many of these business owners already hammered by inflation and so many other items. there was an owner of a small business talking to this about this item to the "wall street journal" and her quote was, i had a little bit of sticker shock saying she knew she had to pay the money back, but gerry, she thought her business be in a better spot now than it was and now that's where the sticker shop comes from when you see the bill. >> gerry: you mentioned the p

pp loans were separated, part of the terms that it be forgiven if certain conditions were met, the administration made a big deal about the bogus claim that the pandemic was a particular kind of like a national emergency. is there any prospect at all of relief for these small business owners? connell: well they could apply for hardship relief which could reduce some of their payments. that would become be looked at on a case-by-case basis. overall i'm not sure because they have already been deferred. it was supposed to be 12 months and it was two years and then 30 months so this has already been going on a while and now these payments have started so it looks like these people are on the hook and you know, to tony's point, he doesn't want anybody to feel sorry for him necessarily because he admitted to me, he should have started paying this back earlier. he wishes he did because his business was great but the timing is really tough. now it's just something to keep in mind when we talk about the economic downturn, and maybe a recession coming on this is another issue these small business owners have to deal with. >> gerry: yet another burden,

terrible time, connell mcshane thank you very much indeed. well the future maybe uncertain for treasury secretary janet yellen. fox business charlie gasparino joins me now with the details charlie how are you? charlie: gerry, could you imagine a time and place that people took a loan that they didn't think they have to payback? >> gerry: this after all, charlie, gave birth to the tea party. we well remember 15 year ago so i guess that's right. charlie: i guess we're just boomers. we just believe you have to payback stuff you borrow. >> gerry: it's a very old fashion idea. the government doesn't seem to leave in anyway, charlie you had a very interesting column over the weekend, a lot about her and a lot of dissatisfaction with her. is she on her way out? charlie: this is what i know and i could just tell you this that the white house has been fielding i guess requests and calls from senior wall street executives, i can't say their names because they told me off the record, but these are powerful people on wall street who basically are saying two

things. we're heading to a recession in 2023, it might be mild, but we're heading for one, and you need someone in treasury with some real-world experience. janet yellen, as you know, former fed chair, you know, lots of academic and government experience, she's never really run a business, and she's actually never run a business, and there are people out there that just have more intune to the business community. that's what wall street is telling their contacts and the biden administration and the biden administration from what i understand has now developed a short list of potential candidates following those conversations, and the candidates are gina raimonda, the commerce secretary who was in ventura churr capital for a significant period of time, brian moynihan is another one the head of ceo of bank of america, again, runs a big bank and ran it pretty well since the financial crisis. i guess the further down the

list is gary gensler, the sec chief. pretty controversial guy for a lot of reasons, diving into woke disclosure mandates and esg stuff but he did work at goldman and he has some allies including elizabeth warren believe it or not so those are the potential replacements. some of this also, gerry, is going to be yellen's call from what i understand. clearly, there's a movement they would like to see there are people in the white house who would like to see her leave. they want her to leave on her own terms but from what i understand she's not going to make it through next year. >> gerry: very briefly, charlie, you talk about all the people with real-world experience and one of the names mentioned and i think he's a favorite among progressives in washington is brainard, the vice chair of the fed. is she, is that idea going away? >> i don't think she's going to get that. she's just, that was just not on the list of that job. it maybe another job. it maybe fed chair which i think is where she's kind of heading

towards she's obviously the vice chair right now, but you know, i mean, she can do it too but if you look for real-world experience, where did she work before she got into government? >> gerry: academic. mostly academic. charlie gasparino thank you very much for joining us. lawmakers are back on the hill focused on passing a $1.7 trillion funding deal before christmas in attempt to avert a government shutdown. kayleigh mcgee white joins me right now. kayleigh thank you very much for being here. will they be able to get this big spending deal through? they have got some support it looks like republicans in the senate who want to get this done and maybe avoid the risk of a government shutdown? what's the latest? >> democrats are definitely trying hard to push this thing through right now, and if they are able to do so, it will only be because a group of senate republicans aided them in it and that would really be frankly quite upsetting since house republicans have objected multiple times to passing an

omnibus at such a short notice, and with so many democratic wish list items stuff ed inside of it. house republicans would much rather prefer to pass a temporary resolution extending current federal spending levels into 2023 and then debate this longer and decide what is necessary and what is not necessary, and it's quite shocking that senate republicans aren't more in favor of that option as well. >> gerry: i think the senate republicans want to do this don't they before the new congress takes over and the house flips over to republican control and a lot of those senate reporter republican s are concerned maybe we'll get into another government spending, budget show down, and other government spending shutdown, so in the process, they are happy to just pile on all this additional spending even after we've seen all of the spending we've seen over the last couple of years. >> absolutely, and we've seen what spending has done to the economy. we've seen what its done to the average american family's budget , and it really is important to keep in mind that passing such a massive spending bill at this point be an insult

to american voters who just voted for a divided government. they voted out a democratic house majority for a reason and senate republicans need to respect that decision and hold off, debate the bill, decide what is necessary, what is not and try to reign in the governments current spending levels and if they pass this omnibus they are doing the exact opposite. >> gerry: kayleigh thank you. we'll follow that very closely. there's important implications for the future of republican politics too, thank you very much indeed, kayleigh. a major winter storm is headed for the midwest and are americans looking at a white christmas? we'll take a look at that and what it could mean for your travel plans after this. ♪ since we have no place to go, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow ♪

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visit prudential.com or speak to an advisor today. >> gerry: a white christmas seems to be in the cards for americans in the midwest at least, with a major winter storm expected to slam into the chicago area on friday. fox weather meteorologist kianna lewis joins me with the latest. what can we expect, how bad is this going to be? >> i definitely think it will be a massive storm in terms of the impact but as well as the size, gerry. we're looking at our area of low pressure. the peak of the storm starting off thursday through the northern plains and does filter through parts of the midwest as we head throughout friday and dives off to the north into christmas eve but as we've been mentioning, it will likely be a major storm and it's because of the impacts that makes it such a big storm. we have cold air filtering in from the arctic north as we head into the middle of the week and that's going to really set the stage as our system gets itself together. that cold air behind that jet stream allows a lot of that cooler air to filter as far

south as oklahoma and then the area of low pressure really gets setup meeting up with this convergent zone of that moisture throughout parts of the central portions of the country. we have that moisture being pulled in from the gulf that provides the opportunity for not only snow but even rain across parts of the east coast. we have the opportunity for heavy rain for the i 95 corridor. behind that blizzard-like conditions through the northern plains, and into the midwest and that will filter through thursday and into friday. when we take a look at the snow totals we're looking at areas getting well over a foot of snow for areas like minneapolis, chicago, farther off to the north the u-p of michigan getting into two to three feet of snow as we head through the early half of the weekend. now this will likely impact travel. we are looking at 113 million folks trying to get home for the holidays so as we look at the major airports through the midwest, st. louis into chicago, morning hours will be moderate when it comes to those delays but it's the afternoon. the storm really gets kicked off thursday afternoon and that will

slow things down for the most part thursday. now as we head off towards the northeast we're also looking at a huge opportunity for rain. i'm talking a number of inches off to the north. philadelphia, new york city, boston, big cities here two to three inches of rain expected maybe even pockets of higher totals three to five inches that will lead to a flash flood threat for those areas. south of that into washington d.c., as well as richmond, virginia, one to two inches of rain expected and that takes us into the start of the holiday weekend as well. that will equally add to those delays across parts of the northeast. p.i.t. into washington d.c., morning hours are going to be a hot mess and into detroit we also have some delays that are going to be pretty much on the major side through and through for the course of friday they are also getting in on that snow along with a little bit of that rain, and all in all we're looking at an arctic blast for the majority of the country. peak of the colder temperatures happen on friday but we see more people impacted into saturday with 249 million folks dealing with temperatures below the average, so beyond the rain,

beyond the snow, even beyond the winds, we're still dealing with cold for most of the country. >> gerry: well that does sound like a big storm, worst possible timing from a travel point of view too. just two or three days before the big holidays, the plus of planes, trains, and automobiles i think being relived once again we'll keep a close eye on that. well, we're also bracing for a border surge this week. another one, in addition to what we've already got. title 42 is set to expire and even some democrats have been sounding the alarm. we'll get the white house's response after this. ♪ ♪

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>> gerry: we are now just two days away from the expiration of title 42 that legal provision that enables the administration to turn away migrants at the border. as a result of surge of illegal border crossings is now expected the democratic mayor of el paso has been declaring a state of emergency. fox news white house correspondent jacqui heinrich is here. what's the latest you're hearing

reporter: well, good afternoon, to you. the department of homeland security has warned that when title 42 expires, we're going to be seeing between nine and 15,000 migrant crossings per-day , each and everyday, and we've been told that the white house is going to have more details soon on how exactly they plan to manage that surge, but we haven't gotten those answers yet. we were told everyday last week they were coming soon before the deadline, which is just two days from now. we still haven't gotten them which is why some congressional democrats are really pushing the white house to ask the courts for an extension, because they say it's not clear what plans going to be in place. >> the president needs to use every bit of power he has as an executive to find a way or ask for an extension. the president can basically i think ask for that extension, i think his administration is doing that or will do that. i sure hope they do. reporter: but there is no such effort underway right now, at least that officials are

admitting to. >> so there's no effort right now then to lobby the court for another extension? >> i think that i've answered the question as best i can. we're preparing. reporter: dhs is asking for funds to surge resources to the border, impose consequences for unlawful entry, bolster non-profit capacity and target smugglers but lawmakers say they don't even have details yet and some are hesitant to throw more money at the homeland security who said the border is secure. one thing the white house is doing is trying to counter misinformation among smugglers that the border will be open saying to be clear, the lifting of the title 42 health order does not mean the border is open anyone who suggests otherwise is doing the work of smugglers spreading misinformation to make make a quick buck off vulnerable migrants. might now president biden is meeting with the president of ecuador to talk about regional migration along with a long list

of other things and about an hour from now we will have the briefing with the white house press secretary. we hope to get those answers we have been promised for the last week or so. back to you. >> gerry: thank you very much indeed. well texas department of public safety lt. christopher olivares says there's no strategy in place right now. just as you heard there's no strategy in place at the border. listen. >> i'm sure you've been watching these 35,000 who just managed to come here or tried to get through here just since the beginning of this month. i suspect those numbers, you suspect will dramatically increase, right? >> right. as you just said right there, there's no strategy in place so they are just releasing people into the city so now you're see ing migrants that are sleeping on the streets. >> gerry: let's bring in the center for immigration studies todd benzman. thanks for joining me. wednesday we heard it doesn't look like there's any prospect of a last minute appeal to extend the deadline for title 42 which expires as we say on wednesday. how bad is it going to get there

once title 42 ends? >> well, it does look like tens of thousands of migrants have moved up to the northern border cities all along our southern border in mexico, at least 35,000 that we know of that are actually in shelter systems from tijuana all the way to matamoris on the gulf of mexico and that's just the ones that we know are in the shelter system. there are other reports of thousands upon thousands that are marching toward the border on the highways and taking trains and boats and planes and it does seem for all in tense and purposes according to mexican media, latin american media reporting that there is a very significant additional surge on the way and those media accounts are quoting the migrants on the ground often

who are telling them, we're coming for title 42. we expect to be let in under title 42 goes away, so there shouldn't be too much mystery about why they're coming and why they're coming now. >> gerry: and following this obviously very closely. they and the people, smugglers many come across know very well that title 42 has been a practical measure that's enabled the united states to send these migrants back which has deterred many of them from coming. they now know full well the administration has no intention of continuing that and no real apparently strategy for dealing with these migrants so why wouldn't they come? >> right. well, i spent a lot of time with the immigrants over the last two years in this mass migration crisis, and i come away with the opinion that most of them are very intelligent, smart, rational, and calculating people that are making financial decisions on behalf of their families, so when they see the border is for all in

tense and purposes open, they are getting in and bussed within a day or two to any city they want in the united states, they're going to make the decision to put down their $10,000 in smuggling fees so that it pays off. they want to make sure that they get in, and that they then stay into work. the vast majority of the immigrants that are crossing the border and planning to cross the border are economic migrants , but they're going to be taking advantage of a really special provision about the disappearance of 42 and that is to claim asylum, political persecution, but none of these are really going for a persecution. they're coming for jobs. >> gerry: now the administration has said it may take some measures to deal with that, but if it's going to let title 42 expire, what could be done to prevent as you say what looks like a surge? people talked about 14,000 a day

coming across the border once this is lifted. what else could be done now to prevent that? >> well, the reason why you have numbers like that is because the administration chose a policy that is to bring in as many as possible, their idea of management is to make sure that there's not a big del rio migrant camp forming on the river banks. they want as many as possible to come in. >> gerry: i have to stop you there. we'll be watching that very closely, thank you very much for being here. we'll have more "coast to coast" , after this.

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gerry: markets are extending their losses today to kick off the final trading week of the year. disney, nike, pulling the dow down around 200 points at the moment. market the looking likely to close the year in the red. that is not cheerful way to start a season of joy this christmas. if there is anyone who i'm sure can lift the spirits of this time of year anytime of the year, of course our next show, and charles payne is up next. charles is going to take you through the next hour. charles, see if you can lift the spirits. charles: see if i can work a little magic, gerry. thanks so much, my friend. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now stocks continue to crumble as calls of new sobering reality continue to grow. find out one legendary investor is the onl