martin luther king, jr. born? was it one, atlanta, two, an montgomery, alabama, three, birmingham, alabama, four, charleston, south carolina. the answer? atlanta, number one. he was born back in 1929. he would have celebrated his 94th birthday today. that does it for the past three hours of "varney & company." neil cavuto, hand it to you a second early. neil: thank you, i appreciate that, lauren, thank you very, very much. on this day we're honoring dr. martin luther king. all the major markets are closed on this federal holiday year. a big pressing concern for all of us around thursday at midnight. that "countdown" clock we'll show you gives you a good idea what we're looking at. that is the point which we have to sort of look under the couch cushions for spare change or couple of billion, a couple trillion here we'll be up

against that $34.4 trillion. you know the drill, republicans are attaching spending conditions to the white house to raise the debt ceiling. white house is saying no, that simply will not happen. it is either raise it or, well we're going to shut the government down. not that they're saying that. that is the threat from republicans if they don't get that. edward lawrence at the white house with more. edward. >> reporter: go figure, neil, nobody takes an iou written on a napkin what it might have to come to. treasury secretary janet yellen sent up a flare, warning signs to leadership, saying the government will run out of money on thursday. instituted, or will institute extraordinary measures to extend the length government money will go so it won't run out on thursday. the letter says in part, treasury is not currently to provide an estimate how long we

will extend to pay the government obligations unlikely cash and extraordinary measures will be exhausted before early june. this gives republicans and democrats a chance to work it out. the white house now passing the buck. >> we will not be doing any negotiation over the debt ceiling but broadly speaking at the start of this new congress we're reaching out to all of the members through the office of leg affairs making sure that, making sure we have those connections with the new members as i just stated. >> reporter: new house speaker kevin mccarthy says he is ready to talk with the president what areas to cut spending. so far not heard from the president about those, when those conversations could take place. other republicans believe the only way the white house and democrats will listen over spending cuts is with leverage and spending bills to fund the government offer leverage. >> u.s. senate, that isn't necessarily friendly, i think to our agenda, and certainly a

white house that is, you know, again and again announcing that they're unwilling to negotiate or sit down with kevin mccarthy and work through some of these things, you're going to need leverage, right? and that leverage is going to come with the 12 appropriation bills. >> reporter: so the debt ceiling issue is on the radar for members of the congress. it is also on the radar for the white house. no meaningful discussions as of yet. neil? neil: edward, to be clear the white house is saying we will not attach spending to this? this is money that has been spent. you have to honor that, end of story. the same story. >> reporter: correct. neil: same thing obama administration had taken. the republicans hope to use it as lever, potential shutdown, that in their quiver to go ahead and pursue that? >> reporter: republicans want to use the lever, in order not to hit the debt ceiling with very to cut spending from somewhere. he wants to engage, kevin mccarthy wants to engage the president and democrats where

the spending cuts will come from. democrats saying we already spent this money, allocated the money for spending, so we must increase the debt ceiling. neil: how long can they keep playing this kabuki theater back and forth because eventually a shutdown comes inevitable, doesn't it? >> reporter: that played out in the trump administration when secretary mnuchin sent out the same letter to congress. secretary yell said at this point they can go through mid-june. they don't have a exact date yet, you have different levels of funding coming in, different levels of funding coming out. once they get closer to the mid-june date, likely a second letter we narrowed the date to more this week. that is what secretary mnuchin did. we'll get more of an idea later on. the idea from the secretary, hey, start talking about this and fix this problem before it becomes a big issue. lauren: neil: the rate they're going

this will become a big issue if they do not change positions. a busy one for you, edward, if you need it. edward lawrence at the white house on that. neil: if you think the markets are panicking about this of course they're closed today. we're halfway point of january. those who believe in so-called january effect might be heartened to think the major averages up the way they are, dow up 4%, s&p the same, nasdaq about 6%, good start, could be a preview to coming attractions these debt worries notwithstanding. kelly o'grady crunching all those numbers and top headlines on this busy day even with the markets closed. kelly. >> reporter: good to see you, neil. we have a bit of green that we're halfway through the first month of trading in 2023. we didn't get the santa claus rally we were hoping for. other good news is driving the dow performance, dow, nasdaq s&p five hundred up three half%.

inflation cpi showing cooling a bit. 2022 was one of the worst years since 2008 for the markets just have to step back put into context how far we have come over the last nearly three years. the dow up 84 1/2% since pandemic lows. s&p 500 up 79% and the nasdaq up 61 1/2% since march of 2020. now that positive performance this year could hit a bump in the road later this month. the federal reserve is meeting january 31st and most investors are hoping for a slowing in that rate hike but we'll have a number of economic indicators ahead ever that, including wednesday's producer price index. one billionaire continues to be unhappy with the federal reserve, elon musk. over the weekend the tesla ceo continued his bashing tweeting this, he said, quote, i wonder what would have happened in 2009 if the fed raised rate instead of lowering them.

alluding to the ultralow interest rates which surged assets rights after that. the higher the rates, harder the fall. not first time elon musk was critical of the fed. blaming it for tesla's stock price plummeting 64% since the beginning of 2022. ignoring shareholder concerns of closing over closure of factory in china. we'll see how markets react as we get closer to the january fed meeting. i imagine elon would have much to say. he always does. neil: thank you very much, kelly for that. jonathan hoenig capitalist pig hedge fund manager, fox news contributor. not a bad start to the year. there is carry through. >> as goes january the goes the rest of the year that is the january indicator. we didn't get a santa claus rally, off to a strong start in january despite worries about the about the debt ceiling. 200 stocks in the russell 2000

up over 10% this year. that is more than all the number of stocks up 10% last year. so a lot of names doing well. even bitcoin if you can imagine is up 20% in the last couple weeks. majority of stocks above the 200-day and 50-day moving average it has been been sea change in 2023 exact opposite of 2022. neil: some in "the wall street journal" economists say a recession is coming this year, some say it is mild. some say it is coming. what do you think. >> one thing to declare recession, the markets rebounded quite considerably. ironically if you're an investor, every investor in america has been feeling recession. the fact they declared it in d.c. could be a buy signal. what i promise you, neil, is volatility. a third of the time keep in mind stocks are trendless. they don't go bull or bear trends. more than anything i think investors need to have patience.

try to pay for the long moves. try to have liquidity on tap. the yield curve is inverted. tends to be harbinger of very weak economy. teaming this is to jump in one trend, jump out of one trend, now is the time to have the long-term perspective. neil: i want to know, jonathan what you think about this, we need a stock market rally and bond market rally without the 10-year coming down from 10.39% end of last year, 3.5% right now. i don't think we would be seeing this dow, s&p, nasdaq ride. what do you think, how do you think the two markets fare? >> i think you have to, neil, respectfully look again a little bit longer term. in the 1970s, interest rates were going up and stock prices were going up. it is not always necessarily a connection. the big issue, will be 800-pound elephant in the room is inflation. now it slowed. it certainly has not gone away.

it makes it so difficult, neil, not just for consumers but for investors. how do you invest five years out, 10 years out without knowing the cost of money. elon musk is right, ironically they talk about more spending in d.c., investors on wall street are trying to figure out exactly what the inflation number will be. neil: quickly, while i have you, jonathan, the could burst the debt ceiling, nothing gets done, obviously the threat of a government shutdown if republicans don't get concessions they want. it could be noise. we've seen this before but we've also seen this happens when this back and forth clownish behavior regardless what side you take affects ratings agencies. it was s&p that downgraded our debt back in 2011 from aaa, not because we had a shutdown but that all of the craziness ahead of it. do you worry about that or is it just noise? >> shorter-term, neil, you used

the term kabuki theater there is a lot of that. there is a lot of fear that the government is shutting down, prisons will be opened, no police on the street, none of that is going to happen but the fiscal state of the country writ large you're starting to see play out. not just the ratings agency, the value of the dollar had a big run-up last year. it weakened considerably in 2023. that could be story moving forward. what we saw in the 1970s, complete evaporation of the dollar, even if the economy continues to strengthen, one of that foreign stocks, precious metals will outperform this year. neil: that is interesting. jonathan, great catching up. >> be well, neil. neil: following all of the document developments as well already calling it a dock you drama. we in the media don't waste time summing up everything in a pithy expression. the latest what the president knew, and when he knew it. speaking of the 1970s.

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♪. neil: all right. more classified documents were found over the weekend at joe biden's delaware home. a lot of people in the administration being very cautious to say, all right, that's all there is. the very latest from jacqui heinrich at the white house how they're handling this latest

announcement. jacqui. >> reporter: hey, neil. a lot of republicans are asking now for the visitor logs of the president's delaware home to be released. we asked about this last week and the white house deflected. now we know why. apparently they dot not keep any record of who comes and goes from that delaware home where potentially unsecured classified documents were found. the white house is explaining it this way, telling us this morning, like every president in decades of modern history his personal residence is personal but upon taking office president biden restored the norm and tradition of keeping white house visitor logs including publishing them regularly after the previous administration ended them. republicans are sounding off about potential national security implications boxing in democrats who pose the same questions about the documents found at mar-a-lago. adam schiff admitting national security could be jeopardized here. >> i don't think we can exclude the possibility without knowing more of the facts. we have asked for an assessment

in the intelligence community about the mar-a-lago documents. >> reporter: republicans are pointing out a big gap in some democrat claims, this and mar-a-lago's raid are apples and oranges comparison. >> never released visitor logs. they didn't raid the residence. in fact after the general counsel was appointed we still find out that president biden's personal attorneys are rummaging around essentially what would be a crime scene trying to find information to turn over. this whole process has been handled poorly. >> reporter: the latest discovery came more than a day after the white house told us that they were being trans parent and two days after the press secretary said that the search was complete. the president's attorneys are trying to explain the time between when they find something and when they tell us about it, as a balancing act between the needs of protecting ann an on

going investigation and being clear with public transparency. neil: they discovered the documents october 2nd, when a official fbi inquiry had november 9th, but all of this came to light much, much later and certainly not before the midterms. >> reporter: and that is something that you know, causing reaction on both sides of the aisle to put it lightly. certainly it is not something that the white house, this white house at this particular point in time wants to be dealing with. they like to make comparisons to the trump administration saying they have been aboveboard. this sort of muddies all of that and also the president made his own comments during the mar-a-lago raid being viewed in a much different light. democrats are having to acknowledge that this is not good and they have got to keep a standard across the board for how they reacted to the documents at mar-a-lago how they're reacting now. of course it is fueling republicans who have been planning to do probes on all

sorts of things. the chair of the house oversight committee saying look you don't know who is going in and out of the home. we have questions about president's son and his business dealings. you're seeing overlap in the conversation about where this goes next. neil: yeah, into an empty vacuum fill a lot of sinister theories. we'll watch it closely. jacqui, great reporting as always. we again talk about the comparison with donald trump. the trump administration did have visitor logs during its four years in office. they just did not share that with the public but they had the logs. so that was the battle back and forth, why don't you let people know who is coming and going at the white house? as things generally comes to light after an administration leaves office. in that case we would find out who was visiting the trump white house on daily basis five years later. to be clear, trump white house did indeed logs coming and going at the white house, certainly didn't share them with the

press. ronald chapman joins us, federal attorney on all of this. ron, first off on the logs, who was going where and when, now moving ahead to the biden administration not just the white house but his home and whether there was any record of that? we're going to learn from the president there was not. i guess, it is a up did be a dumb question on my part should there be? when the president has a home or place to chill out should there be a record of that? >> neil, that could be personal choice depending on who it is. if you're going to have classified information located in facility, absolutely you should keep logs. if you remember the general petraeus case, he had a secured compartment facility in his house, logs were being kept. that is biden's choice. we will not get access to see

who was in his property at the time. that does not make it acceptable to have the classified information at that location. neil: ron, another question i have for you, i know one of the chief lawyers for the president, did get to the house, the delaware home to sort of look at what might have been there now. he apparently had clearance, i understand, to look at top secret documents but we don't know whether the lawyers and i assume they were lawyers, that they brought with him did. is that a big deal? >> well certainly it is. my understanding is that richard sauber, president biden's attorney had the ability to review the information and transport it to the department of justice or the fbi. the other lawyers if they did not have security clearance they would have obligation to stop as soon as they saw those record records. i'm assuming that is what they called sauber in the first place to handle transportation of the

records and give it to the fbi. the timeline is very suspicious. we have november 2nd, classified information is found. sauber is called in. president biden would have been informed of that. his obligation at that time to insure he had no other records on site and sauber certainly should have done that too. neil: if he was aware of that last november then, i don't know any other way to put it but the president lied. he said he was ignorant it, didn't know about it, which raises a lot of issues but in this case he claims he was unaware of this, possible he forgot but your thoughts? >> well you know i'm certain sauber would have informed the president that the fact that classified information was in his property and the fbi would have been notified and the department of justice. i don't know whether or not the president's lying but i will tell us his attorneys would have told him about that fact but you know the failures here are on both the part of the president and his team as well as

merrick garland. if you recall counsel was appointed to this case to determine if special counsel needed to be involved back in november and at that time the president should have insured that he had no additional classified information, merrick garland should have required some sort of certification from his counsel that no other documents existed on any of his property. neil: we know merrick garland appointed a special counsel jack smith to look into the trump classified document issue. we know the president commented extensively on that. that this materializes merrick garland appoints someone to look into the particular stack of documents, robert hur to do that. that is 2:00 special counsels investigating documents. i'm just wondering whether they would be sharing information, have a need to share information or operating independently? >> well the i think they're separate for a reason. first jack smith needs to focus

on the trump case and determine if there is criminal culpability there. robert hur needs to look at biden's case. i think merrick garland's intent that you have individual prosecutors investigating and providing individual reports to merrick garland so he make a cities and ultimately term determine if any of them need to be criminally prosecuted for this type of conduct. i think it is a good idea to have it separate to protect the integrity of the department of justice. that is what he is trying to do. neil: well-said, well-explained. i evened into what you said, well-explained. ronald chapman, federal attorney looking at all of this. there are a lot of bears in the market when it comes to peter elias no one has a voice like him. it is so thunderous, when things look bad, you pay attention, he will scare you with just his voice. he is actually a very nice guy and he is next.

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♪. neil: indicators, if peter elides is right, iconic symbol when it comes to markets big moves, don't be fooled by early january numbers show us halfway through the month looking at pretty heady numbers he ain't buying it. stock market news publisher. good to see you, my friend, you're not sharing that bubbly? >> no, i'm not, neil, i want to clarify, i shouldn't say clarify, i want to amplify one point because it seems almost every time you and i talk i'm really, really bearish on the market. you do thousands of interviews so you're not going to remember the last time we spoke, neil, but i will refresh your memory. we spoke on exactly june 16th of last year. that was an exact bottom in the market and when i spoke to you that day, i said i'm probably going to disappoint you neil, because i'm very bullish for at

least a few weeks if not a couple of months and lo and behold, that was the day of the market bottom. we rallied for exactly two months into august 1th. neil: is that all over now, peter or how would you describe it? where are you now? >> yeah. i'm returning to my cage again, they will cage me in, and i'm returning to my cage. i will be called a vicious and ferocious growling bear. neil: why? >> okay. let's go over a few things. you know, what is interesting, every time you and i talk, neil, i emphasize that, i don't care about fundamentals, i really don't because i'm 100% a cycle technician. neil: right. >> but once in a while there are fundamental numbers that i can look at on a chart that really stand out and one of them right now is the unemployment number. now if you said to people, wow,

talk about a, talk about an economy, our unemployment rate now is down to 3 1/2%, that's one of the lowest reads in the last, oh, gosh, 60 years, you just don't get down to 3 1/2% that often. except the problem is, neil, it works exactly the way your instinct might tell you it would work. very low unemployment numbers are usually very bearish for the market. let me give you an example. we did not have the, the current unemployment rate is 3 1/2%. throughout the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, a period of 30 years, three decades, we never had an unemployment reading this low. it has been this low for several months and if you go back and look at the history, neil, the numbers that match these numbers, the last time we were

anywhere near current numbers, we went through the whole period of the '90s, 70's and '80s without a number of that low, april of 2000. the unemployment rate finally got down to a near current levels, under 4%. and you know what april of 2,000 was, neil. for those people watching us that don't remember that, that was one of the great tops in market history. the nasdaq went down, 80, 90% from there. so huge bear market. neil: would you argue, right now, peter, sorry to jump on you, my friend, we're not near that kind after top or similar top? we've come a long ways from our lows but that's what's different? a lot of people do look at a low unemployment level, what does it mean for inflation and the fed fight. do you factor that into your thinking? >> yes i do, as a matter of fact

i do, neil. you're right we're down significantly from the market high, but one of the other times i want to point out when we had this really low unemployment in the mid to late '60s, '66, '67, '8. through all the '60s, we had nowhere near this low, but in 191968 we got 4%. 1966, until 1982, a period of over 16 years, the dow jones industrial average was on a road to nowhere. it hit 1000 in february of '66. neil: that's right. >> it never significantly broke that thousand until 16 years later. that is unemployment. neil: what are we in for now, peter? people listening to you, saying

maybe i'm getting ahead of myself. what do you tell them? >> this is statistic, neil, i haven't verified it but i think we'll have another down year. here is the interesting thing, since 1928 market has only been down two years in a row, s&p they were talking about, four times. here is the interesting statistic, on everyone of those four occasions, neil, it was down more the second year than the first. neil: yikes! >> so there is -- neil: we have awful year last year. what would be the tipping point? >> well one more thing i want to talk about that is very important now, neil, and that's the vix index. neil: sure. volatility index, how people feel fear gauge. >> absolutely. a pretty good indicator of fear in the market or cockiness in the market, complacency.

right now the last day on friday of last week we closed at the lowest bevel for the vix index all year long through 2022. what does that indicate? complete complacency. the market had a bad year, we'll not have two bad years in a row are we neil? we can't have two bad years in a roy. we can go down a little bit further but the complacency level is unbelievable. let me put it to you this way, neil, let me objectify it, in the bear markets, starting from the year 2,000 to the current time, almost a quarter of a century, anytime the vix index has been at these levels or lower, let's say under 18 or 19 which is where we are now, you have invariably been at a market top in a bear market. it is very important, and i emphasize in a bear market.

if you look at the vix index in a bull market, you say you're crazy, eliades, these levels are not important at all. you're right, they are not in a bull market f this is a bear market, i'm very much proponent of that theory, we're in trouble with this vix reading. neil: it worked. i no longer feel like lunch. this forced diet you have me on is working. the voice sounds impressive. because that is extra scary. because you have the best voice in the business. you're one of the best in in the business, whether or not they agree with you, they can't argue with your smarts. peter eliades give you the scope of the land. he has impressive track record in totality. take with it what you will. >> thank you, neil. my pleasure. neil: this is a day we're

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♪. neil: remembering martin luther king all these years later, what's remarkable when you look back at his life, what he did, he was killed all of 39 years old, and all of the consequential rallies, protests, events, meeting with presidents, this guy was in upper 20s, early 30s doing all of that. we remember that on this day. charles watson in atlanta,

ebenezer baptist church, remembering perhaps this country's greatest preacher. charles? >> reporter: good afternoon, neil, dr. martin luther king still has a profound effect on this country even till this day. certainly at ebenezer baptist church, the church he was once a pastor, they are leading celebrations. as we speak the church is holding the mlk commemorative service with a lengthy list of people including, his daughter, bernice king, imploring everyone not just to uphold her father but his legacy. may andrew dickens, gospel singer yolanda adams and governor brian kemp made appearance on video. he posted this on twitter, today is reminder that we should honor dr. king's enduring legacy by engaging in compassiontive acts

toward our fellow citizens. senior pastor rafael warnock spoke briefly today after rousing sermon on sunday. he extend the a invitation for president biden to address the congregation what would have been dr. king's 94th birthday. the first time a sitting president delivered an sermon at ebenezer baptist. he took the optant to evoke dr. king's legacy and how fragile our democracy was then and now. >> beloved community over chaos, believers in dreams, be doers, always keeping the faith. >> reporter: the celebration, neil, of dr. king's efforts towards civil rights and voting rights extends across the country. the king center today will hold

teach-in and voter registration drive in philadelphia, a place where they're dealing with a lot of gun violence right now. volunteers are focusing on gun prevention. so they're making safety kits to hand out to the community, places like las vegas and other cities are holding parades in honor of dr. martin luther king. again, neil, a profound impact he has had and folks are trying to uphold that legacy today and beyond, neil. neil: thank you for that, charles watson. i want to go to alveda king. you know alveda very, very well, not only fox news contributor, dr. martin luther king's niece, her dad was a.d. king, younger brother of dr. king. it is in her blood. you greet this day with mixed emotions experiencing what we all saw happen to martin luther king, what is still considered a mysterious death of your own father in a drowning.

i'm wondering how you take all of this in? >> well, neil, it is an motion a.m. time for me always and i want to ask everyone who has ever lost loved ones to be comforted, even with covid recently we also had a lot of losses. when i hear my uncle martin luther king, jr.'s voice, my daddy reverent ad kink, my granddaddy, martin luther king, sr., my mother it is very emotional. granddaddy lived the fullness of his life. he died of natural causes. the other three were actually killed. i do remember that every holiday but i'm still able to celebrate. in fact, neil, i released my song, let freedom ring, celebrate and shout, let freedom ring and thank god that king, that uncle had a dream. neil: i asked you this before, if your dad were to come back,

if your uncle were to come back to see the world as it is today, would they mark any progress? would they be angry, how do you think they would react? >> if they would be angry they would not sin with that anger, however they would encourage us. they would remind us, every generation you have to tell the truth. every decade right now, every day with social media, tell the truth. so they would still be saying the same things. martin luther king, jr.'s famous quote, we must learn to live together as brothers and sisters and not perish together as fools. even said he had a dream there would be no black power, no white power, only god power and human power. he accepted we were one blood and one race. we are. this racism lie on skin color needs to stop. i pray it stops in this generation. neil: you know, even within your family, i kidded with you before on this, i don't know how you guys handle thanksgiving dinners

because you're apart from them on some political views. much more conservative. you were for donald trump and of course you were one of the early backers of donald trump. black voices for trump. and i'm sure that's caused some friction even within your family but you, you all seem to, you know, forget that and let bygones be bygones certainly days like this and i don't see public bad-mouthing or prince harry and meghan stuff going on and i wonder how you pull that off? >> we genuinely love etch either, forgive each other. i'm on the board of the martin luther king center. i work with bernice very closely. my daughter works with the martin luther king center as life coach counselor. she and my mom are at the event in atlanta right now. i'm at anderson university, a day of service, mentoring and talking to the students and i was able to encourage so many of

the students today. so we live a life of love and service forgiveness. they do ask me, how in the world can you support donald trump? and i asked them about president biden. president biden gives great speeches they sound lovely but i feel like he plays opposites. when i was little, you said one thing did another. so i do feel like president biden may play a little opposites. neil: all right. play opposites or not, there is no one who doesn't meet you and isn't impressed with you and even if they disagree with you, they're enthralled i can see why after all these years. alveda king, so good seeing you again. thank you very much. >> thank you. neil: we'll have more after this and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together... can help you be better prepared for unexpected events. voya. well planned. well invested.

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anymore. they, they sold the entire hotel from the fourth floor to the 28th floor. it is all migrants. there is no safety in our job. security is very shorthanded and, technically we don't know who is drunk and who is ready to do some crazy stuff. >> reporter: the problem only seems to be accelerating. u.s customs & border patrol tells fox, the numbers will exceed 250,000 for the first time in history. the official numbers are not yet released. on friday new york city mayor eric adams issued a emergency aid request to the state, the cost to help migrants from across the border is over $2 million. that is more than they budgeted with. he urged border patrol that said an others to stop new york to go

next. >> there are websites, streets are paved with gold, there is automatic employment, you automatically live in a hotel. we have to give people accurate information. that is what some of the centers are doing here. >> reporter: but of course it is not just new york that are dealing with a surge in migrants. denver, which is thousands of miles away from the border as well, declaring a state of emergency. they spent 1.5 million of their 2.5 million budget towards helping those migrants so far. neil? neil: thank you for that, madison alworth on all of that. robert al moten, former el paso u.s. marshal. very good to have you. one thing changed, robert, growing concern, maybe frustration prominent democrats, new york city mayor latest among them, concerned about what is happening at the border, concerned about the influx and i'm wondering if that potentially could be a

game-changer, what do you think? >> yeah. thank you for having me. it is a game-changer but about time. you know, i've been -- for a long time. when is the government going to do something about this and i think i mayors, democrats republican, they're -- [audio trouble] neil: robert, i'm very sorry, we're having serious trouble with our audio. it is nothing personal. the latest, robert touched on what i did hear, significance of so many more prominent democrats now saying the border is a problem. it has to be addressed. they comment the president going to border as he did a couple weeks ago. they want to see more, they're a little bit razeled when he was

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it's probably a good thing given all the volatility we've seen and talk about the debt ceiling push and we hit that debt limit on thursday, it's close, very, very close around midnight thursday when everything proverbally hits the fan here and they have to do something to make up for that. there's really no way to know how they're going to make up for that and what they're going to do. republican haves a very different idea how to deal with this, spending constraints to the white house that is in no mood to hear that. the two sides appear to be miles apart. we've seen this before, but this soap oprah is playing itself out again. here we stand now a couple of days from being on the brink, again, edward lawrence at the white house and how they plan to deal with all that. they've got to, i guess, edward, contingency plans, they have to, do we know what they are? reporter: that's exactly what they're doing here. we're not going to hit that debt ceiling on thursday because the treasury secretary announced she's going to do what's called extraordinary measures to stretch out the money that the federave