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adam: i don't think it was tom petty's intention to have that song connected with a stock market freefall, but we are using it anyway. the dow down three days running. we are in negative territory, a year now for the dow. s&p avoiding a buyback. the nasdaq, 2. 5, three%. that advance we started the year has given up some grounds. a lot of people read into that what they will but you can't go up every day.

there are a lot of other shows that will have similar sites that show considerably more homework than that but i want to go to lauren seminary who is quenching these numbers. all of that is weighing on traders. lauren: it is. we will do the debt ceiling with someone more impressive than me momentarily. they say the new year's rally is over, the dow is in negative for the year. if you look at this we had the markets, down so sharply because there are fears the federal reserve will over tighten, raise rates too much, that not only causes recession but exacerbates recession. most people agree, most of a market agree 25 basis points, but then what. that is the big question. susan collins said they would keep going until rates get just above 5% but the impact of

higher rates is starting. wherever you would like, they are biting the bottom lines of corporate america. procter & gamble reported they raised their revenue forecasts on high prices for everything. than they came out and said they see volumes falling in every single category that they operate in. consumers said they are tapped out and discover, the financial credit card company, lowering their credit lines, starting to see delinquencies and doubled their right off rate from last year. discover is down today, discretionary stocks down almost across the board. norwegian cruise lines down 7%, predicting two straight quarters of losses. ongoing weakness in several sectors, housing, manufacturing but this resilience in the labor market, softness everywhere, labor market tight,

let's bring up the yields. the treasury hovering above 3.4%. neil: we will talk to jean sperling, economic advisor to this president. he was there with bill clinton, during the government shutdown in 1995. what we learned from that, some say politically democrats get the upper hand in these things. aishah hasnie is gearing up for what could be a prolonged battle back-and-forth on this for many months. they got ways to get around that for some time. >> reporter: we expect for this summer, what people are predicting, the congress has to figure something out. we are watching this debt ceiling battle amp up the day

after day after day. kevin mccarthy wants to talk to democrats, with the president, to come up with a plan now, today, to increase the debt limit while also balancing the that's the kicker. this is one of the concessions made with conservative hardliners to get speakers to the gavel. they want to use the debt ceiling to leverage spending cuts. republicans increased the debt limit before under donald trump. mccarthy says that is different. they were not the ones running up discretionary spending like democrats have in the last few years. the white house is reacting to mccarthy's ask to talk, they are rejecting it. congress should raise the debt ceiling without any conditions right now. >> there is a reason treasury secretaries of both parties

rejected this dangerous idea that has never been tried before. which is not going to negotiate about that. it was done under the last president. it was done 3 times in a bipartisan way. >> reporter: texas congressman chip roy, one of mccarthy's holdouts says democrats are using scare tactics. >> democrats are hitting the gas, to do the fear mongering, scare tactics, because they saw us successfully wrestle control, we are not going to default on the debt, we can prioritize debt. the current law requires paying your debt payments. >> reporter: we are in a stare down. one factor to watch, pay attention to mitch mcconnell. he said today that he is, quote, now concerned about a financial crisis, the debt ceiling periodically has to be lifted and thinks they will end

up with some negotiation with the administration. he could be the guy president biden calls to settle it. neil: they are not on the same page. we are really looking forward to having these two on the show, talking about dagen mcdowell, going to have a new show on this network at 6:00 pm monday. the bottom line. i will tell you how smart they are, while this was going on, they were doing their homework. she was doing that when she was a kid. i had the good fortune of getting to know the congressman and decided to leave washington because it is such a soap opera and do something respectable. thank you very much.

dagen: he turns me into a softy, which i am not but i would not have a job in television. i would not be here for 20 years this spring if not for that man. neil: that is not true. i am rubber, you are glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. because of the congressional background, 8 years in congress, we are back at it with another potential shutdown. we always get through these things but it is a sloppy issue. the restrictions and concessions, whether these 20 odd congressman who pushed this will push that and push us to the brink. that is the way democrats and even moderate republicans -- >> it is not those 20. most republicans in congress think we spent too much money, $31 trillion in debt.

the point is you need to raise the debt limit because the american government doesn't live within its means. how do we have a trajectory that gets us back to balance. going back 12 years, paul ryan made a name for himself talking debt and deficits and how we balance the budget. he stepped away from that but we are back in this conversation. if we don't deal with this crisis today, it will be a crisis tomorrow. neil: is this the means to do it? the debt limit, tying it to that spending, this is money we already appropriated, what mitch mcconnell was saying and this is where this battle could be big, this is not the means to do that. >> this has been spent, some of the money has been spent, by $1 trillion or $2 trillion. if you are good in government, you say at what point are we responsible for this?

i don't want to default on our debt, nobody does but you need a leverage point to say we have to come together and make this sustainable. we won't have a conversation? i think we could get to a crisis and there is so much -- to say there's no place to cut -- neil: you are open to this. we've seen this before. dagen: it will get raised, biden and co. will use the scare tactics to frighten the american people for their own advantage because again, we are headed toward a recession. a lot more quickly than many people expect. stephanie pomboy told me it will be a rapid descent into a deep, protracted recession. if the economy is suffering, expect the democrats to say blame the republicans, and blame any fight over the debt

ceiling on the pain the american people are feeling. also, it is very convenient to cover a president biden's problems with the classified documents if they are talking about the republican sending the united states deep into a potential default, fighting over the debt ceiling. i digress. i raise my hand over where we can cut because steve forbes told me this this morning as well. al gore at that boondoggle of bureaucrats and private jet loving losers, no wonder he has been in hiding for 20 some odd years, he was talking, here's what he said, there is $370 billion to combat climate change and the inflation reduction act. i say let's start by getting rid of that $370 billion in unnecessary spending. didn't somebody send al gore somewhere to -- before they

rolled him out over -- neil: maybe -- let me go back to 2011. we had s&p downgrade the us at the time with aaa at the odd thing about that was we dodged a bullet, did not go into default, the shutdown was limited. s&p, the argument for downgrading was all the chicanery and theatrics that preceded it and downgraded just the same. we survived that and i am wondering, is there a risk that republicans go far on this. we mentioned the bill clinton situation. for some reason bill clinton was able to capitalize on that but a sympathetic press, to say republicans put us in this position and overstepped themselves.

and got easily reelected. >> the media is never on republicans's side. republicans are going to tank the economy, jeopardize, defaulting on our debt and republicans have to be better messengers. is that how we got the budget control act? republicans in 2011 leverage concessions from barack obama who was a big spender. neil: 2 or 3 years of discipline, but it did fall apart. each side was going to cut -- >> we got rid of it but if you kept it in place it would have a huge impact on the budget. president biden has to say i want to work with republicans and i may not be here in 30 years but my grandkids will be and i want to make sure the american dollar and american economy is still going to thrive and what i do today will matter. dagen: my beef, i will look at him when i say this and not

you. >> i will get the beef. the dictionary. dagen: when you talk about mitch mcconnell, he's going to be a peacemaker in this, for two years, republicans not working in the best interest of republicans because mitch mcconnell was leading the charge on spending money and adding to the debt. >> why are you looking at me? dagen: le mitch mcconnell, lindsey graham, mitt romney, 17-19 republican senators cosigned on to at least $1.3 trillion in spending with the democrats over the last two years. neil: you are with a 20 in the house. dagen: i am not with mitch mcconnell standing in front of a bridge with president biden and cheering infrastructure spending at the chips

boondoggle that were utterly unnecessary that added to the debt that was deficit spending. neil: we got a call from mitch mcconnell, he's canceling being a guest on your show. dagen: mccarthy too. they haven't decided. i talked to republicans this morning, republicans have not come to an agreement on what and where they want to cut in spending related to raising the debt ceiling. neil: this passion will fizzle out. dagen: don't vote on a national sales tax, it is stupid politically. >> probably 20 republicans may want to lift it without a fight. the rest do want the fight. the 20 pushing mccarthy, most of them want to engage, where because of this bill and what mitch mcconnell did, we don't get a crack at the budget until september. this is the only tool we have. neil: there's always been that

beef between house republicans and senate republicans. is a more pronounced? >> they took the leverage away from republicans, they put us in the middle of february. and you have a crack at this budget. they say we want to work with nancy pelosi and do the budget. that really angered a lot of republicans and now, okay, this is the only tool i have. spending out of control, borrowing is out of control, president biden sit down -- neil: barack obama did. dagen: i'm raising my hand again because i am volunteering to go to alabama and personally clawback for the american people the $666 million that richard shelby walked out of the door with upon retirement. the american people want that money back from alabama. he shouldn't have had it.

he should have gotten like a -- not even a gold watch, a goldplated watch. >> doomed steak knives. we can call that money back in the deadline. neil: if sean had $7 million in statues -- >> it would be well spent. neil: if this is a preview of coming attractions you get along with each other. dagen: you get a pewter cup, maybe. neil: i think you get the idea. they haven't been at a diner all day. i still worry about the other guys at the diner but the fact of the matter is that is not the case. the bottom line, 6 p.m. on this fine network monday, big-money show, monday at 1:00 pm, that's a combo that is worth watching. it could be a pay-per-view event because you never know what dagen mcdowell is going to say.

that could be interesting. dagen: the promo, don't make her mad. neil: it is a hope kind of a thing. all right. to improve the market, we are down 200 right now. after this.

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lou: president kamala harris will be close to the border, she's in arizona but not visiting the border. the supervisor probably regrets that. good to have you. if she were to surprise you at the border, what would you want to show her? can you hear me? >> i'm having a hard time hearing you. neil: i apologize. she is not coming to the border.

you want her to. what would you want to show her if she did? okay. we are having problems. we will take a quick break. jean sperling coming up, we are talking about another battle over the debt ceiling. this is very familiar, the chief economic advisor to this president, 596 during a prolonged government shutdown in 21 days, he was advising bill clinton. how did that one work out? after this. meet three sisters. the drummer, the dribbler, and the day-dreamer...

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neil: looking at what is going on the crypto arena, with bitcoin and ethereum bouncing back, they ran up too far too fast, that they would survive everything that was going on, but regrouping and getting their footing again. it depends on a number of developments. charlie, what is going on? charles: this is related because it is about crypto and gives you insight into what is going on in crypto. if you know anything about coin desk, we broke the story on sam bankman-fried, the ponzi scheme, they are up for sale because of issues going on in

crypto. it is interesting is that despite the fact that bitcoin is well off of its highs but bounced off of its lows other cryptos are barely trading these days, there are from what we understand a decent amount of interest in buying this publication. we get this from people who have seen the books. what we are hearing is trying to value this publication and they bought it for a fraction of this. they are selling $200 million, that is a lot given the fact they earned $50 million in revenue last year, which makes this valuation pretty rich. apparently a number of people are interested in this including charles hoskinson, one of the founders of the ethereum launch.

this thing is being shopped, people out there looking to buy it. they have a decent events business, the scoop on ftx didn't hurt it. michael casey is apparently in doorposts --davos looking to raise money. we should point out the business might have done well in the last couple years, but got to look forward. the question is how big of a business will crypto be going forward amid regulations and a lot of coins losing their value in what was a $3 trillion market. that gives you an idea how the market's evaluation is. with that, that takes a little bit of the edge off of sales.

it is a window into this market, it is a religion for a lot of people. the future is uncertain, and i will leave it at that. values are coming down. neil: it was heralded as an alternative rogue investment and almost became a meme investment. a lot of enthusiasts, what we needed is a shake out and impressed with the fact that bitcoin itself held $21,000 a coin. ethereum is doing well. people forget when bitcoin was $65,000. having said that, they feel they weathered the worst. this has been a productive development, it is time for the

strong to come back and bitcoin and ethereum are among those safer investments. what do you make of what they are saying? charles: they are safe havens. there is a bitcoin technology and block chain and people that transact on it. there's a huge ethereum block chain, the more innovative stuff in crypto going on in ethereum, the block chain consensus and various sort of outlets to transact business. ripple does good stuff. that is under investigation for being litigated. the sec says it is an illegal coin issued without registration. my point is you will get some of this theoretically, but at some point you have to go what is the revenue base of bitcoin?

what is the revenue base of ethereum? do they make any money? the native coins have these block chains trading where they are based on fundamental analysis. in the past that fundamental analysis, there was height, there was hope, there was all that, the fed keeps raising rates, people go back to fundamental analysis. on top of that you continue to get massive regulation on this. the federal government, they believe most of the transactions on these technologies no matter how sophisticated, a lot of it is illegal stuff. the government is bearing down. lauren: 20 thank you very much. neil: the government is up against the debt ceiling. a lot of time, maybe months worth of time to sort out its

spending priorities, this must be déjà vu for the top economic advisor to president biden. he was in a similar role in 1996 when bill clinton was going through something like this that turned into a 20 one day shutdown. that was then, could it happen again? jean sperling's next. ♪ ♪ >> tech: alright, all finished. >> dad: wow, that's great. thanks. >> tech: stay safe with safelite. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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permex petroleum is leading the charge in the prolific permian basin with an attractive portfolio of oil, natural gas, and royalty assets. with expanding drilling operations and plans to uplist to the nyse, permex petroleum is poised for growth. neil: we reach our debt limit today, can't borrow anymore until congress approves it. like a visa credit line. this might seem like déjà vu to jean sperling, national economic advisor to two

presidents, bill clinton and barack obama coming in senior economic capacity for president biden, kind enough to join us now. good to see you. i was thinking in 1996, when you were in that capacity under bill clinton, we had a country on the brink, 21 bay shutdown, and there were all sorts of measures and efforts taken to see who would get the better of that. the government did not go into default, many claimed bill clinton got the better of republicans who got beyond their skis. how would you compare than with today? >> having a battle over the budget that leads to a government shutdown is unfortunate. we have been through a few short times. when i was a national economic

advisor under president obama and vice president biden, at the time, was an actual holding hostage of paying our debts, of going into default. that is a whole different -- i can't say this strongly enough. that is a whole different level of economic risk. our country going back to alexander hamilton, was founded on the notion that america's economic word was solid, it was gold. our country has been able to benefit. homeowners, entrepreneurs, businesses, from the fact that the full faith and credit of the united states is absolute. it is not in doubt. neil: we didn't go into default back then. that is what i am asking.

the distinctions for tying spending levels to talks on the debt. >> i want to make clear, in 2011 we were at risk of default. we had enormous harm on the economy. it hurt the economy, plunged consumer confidence. just the threat of default, the notion that the united states is a place where one political party could hold hostage the full faith and credit of the united states to threaten default on what i think are extreme budget views, but any policy preference at all is going to be very damaging and you will hear this from the chamber of commerce, not just this white house, the risk and threat of default, risk economic catastrophe. neil: we got something interesting in 2011 were both sides did seem to be open to cutting or curtailing the growth of the sacred calf.

when it came to republicans with defense, democrats with non-defense spending. it was short-lived, but we got it. the craziness of that led to a ratings downturn. are you afraid of that? >> yes. we are afraid that that is what we are hearing, that republicans in the house, hopefully not all of them are willing to say that if you do not do extreme things for perhaps balancing the budget, significant cuts to medicare, medicaid, social security, we may not extend the debt limit. kevin mccarthy voted for a debt limit three times under donald trump with no limits or conditions because of course, that is the right thing to do. the debt limit is only about ensuring you pay bills you already have.

neil: not to the degree that may be republicans wanted at the time but each agreed to address spending in their chosen areas. what would be wrong with something like that? >> if you want to go back to bipartisan budget negotiations i will take you back to 1997. the clinton administration and all republican congress sat down, had a budget agreement, created the chips -- i mean the children's health initiative program. neil: you are using that as your lead -- >> i want to make clear, that is acceptable, we are in a democracy. republicans can put on the table, some of them seem to want to change social security and medicare from automatic to a year by year discretionary, we disagree. it is their right to put that forward. some of them want to try to

have dramatic cuts that we think would taint this economy and send us into recession to balance the budget, but it is their right to put that forward. what you don't have the right to do is to say that we are going to hold hostage the full faith and credit of the united states to get what we want, or to put it another way, the we are willing to threaten the united states going into default for the first time in its history, even if it lead to a global recession, because we have a budget aspiration that we could not get without holding the us economy hostage. no one -- neil: this isn't the catalyst for that. we spend more money than we take in, a lot more money. somebody asked me about this. i don't know if this debt thing is the way to do it but it seems like democrats are resistant to talk about

entitlement, understandably, republicans are resistant to talking about curbing defense. and it happens every single time. and now we have a debt to gdp ratio of over a hundred. we owe more than we are worth has a country. that is not sustainable. >> we inherited the largest debt increase, it was very large, it wasn't just due to the pandemic, it was also due to a trillion dollar tax cut in 2017 at a time our economy did not needs to in the ellis, $2 trillion. neil: the pandemic was a huge part of that. >> absolutely. 62% of the pandemic funding that affected the debt was done under donald trump and much of that was absolutely -- what has happened since then -- it went down $250 billion the next

year, one. $4 trillion the next year. the deficit has come down by $1.7 trillion. part of that is the american rescue plan. neil: overall debt has gone up. that is not sustainable. you know these numbers better than i. >> one. 7 -- neil: talk simultaneously, i want to bring this up, we are 34. $4 trillion in debt. it has gone up under this president and other prior presidents before him. i'm wondering, is there a plan, do you look at the need right now to address all the money going out versus the money coming in? because the two sides never seem to reconcile that. meanwhile this data just stores and stores and stores. >> we have different views. could become together?

obviously an example right now, we don't understand the position republicans take. we have a strong tax enforcement agenda. this wasn't even about raising taxes. it is about enforcing the existing tax code. what do they do? the first proposal is to get rid of that even though the congressional budget office says that will raise the deficit by $100 billion. under our watch the deficit is down $1.7 trillion. a lot of that is because of stronger revenue, the american rescue plan was successful in having us have a strong recovery. the fiscal discipline. julie: we actually -- >> fiscal discipline -- neil: you will see these improvements. that all withstanding i am wondering if the administration is open to a serious discussion

with republicans, getting spending whether it involves entitlements or defense, but everything, everything. >> i think this president is always interested in having serious bipartisan discussions, to look where we can find agreement. neil: he already said he doesn't want to talk about this debt thing. >> let's be clear. we are not going to do it as a condition on the debt limit. neil: but not tying into this. >> republicans control the house of representatives. when we put it in a budget, it has to pass the house and senate. of course there will be bipartisan discussions. can we find areas we agree? maybe we can. maybe there are areas we can agree. maybe there are areas we won't agree, we don't agree with some proposals like we saw from senator johnson and senator scott that talk about taking

social security which people paid into and it is a guaranteed form of retirement. we won't talk about putting that on the chopping block. neil: even republicans rejected that. you are open, whatever is in the debt limit -- >> let's not make -- let me say this clearly. to democrats or republicans, no matter how much you believe in your agenda, you should never use the full faith and credit of the united states government. you should not hold that hostage for your agenda. fight, go into negotiations come make your case to the american people. that is democracy. to threaten default, to threaten economic catastrophe, nobody, democrat or republican, should do that, no matter how much they believe in their agenda. of the 20 we will watch it very closely, jean sperling,

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neil: she is only in her second term and it is safe to say,

nicole malliotakis is one of our more influential congresswomen, head of the ways and means committee. to that, i would raise with you what i did with jean sperling, knee-deep in these discussions of what to do about the debt limit. he says raise the darn thing, we can have a separate discussion about spending later. >> they wanted to just raise it they should have done it in december. they would have had no problem not including house republicans in negotiating and on how to spend the money when they pass the omnibus package that is further added to the debt. they should address the debt limit than but now here we are in a new year, house republicans are in control and we want to say in this process. most americans looking at what is happening in washington c$31 trillion is simply unsustainable, we can't continue down this path. the debt to gdp ratio is one hundred 20 one%.

20 years ago it was 60% and the year i was born, 1980, it was 35%. neil: you were born in 1980? i'm feeling all. i think this tie is that all. a lot of republicans, our only chance to address spending, but you get a sense from mitch mcconnell this is not the vehicle to do it. >> i don't think we should be default thing on our debt but we need to have an important discussion about future spending in this country. most people would say our system is bloated. we have a bloated bureaucracy, a lot of discretionary funding, a lot of programs that haven't been reauthorized. neil: shutdown is the only way, the democrats intention. >> shutdown could come later on. mandatory spending, we need to keep funding certain things, the military, social security checks are going out, something

should not be negotiable. we want to set ourselves on a path for the next 10 years, over the next decade, how do we start ensuring a balanced budget. the country cannot survive -- neil: kevin mccarthy, some of your extreme colleagues won't give him any wiggle room on this even if it means shutting down the government for an extended time, even if it means potential default. >> i get concerned about a potential shutdown. republicans and some democrats are like minded, commonsense oriented, democrats will come together to avoid any type of default. i don't think it will come to that. we have a lot of responsible members who see what the detrimental impact could be on 401(k)s, on jobs, real devastating impacts on american people's lives. we cannot default on our debt.

the white house should also be working with us, to say they will not negotiate with us, to call us fiscally demented because -- put us on a fiscal path of sanity, is the wrong approach. neil: we will see what happens. good seeing you in the flesh. using the market's fears, 66 points, the dow is down. touch, sight, sound, and scent. it's the electric that recharges you. the all new, all electric eqe sedan from mercedes-benz. good luck. . . hey professor, subscriptions are down but that's only

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all of that finger-pricking and all of that pain, my a1c was still stuck. my diabetes was out of control. i was tired. (female announcer) dexcom g6 sends your glucose numbers to your phone or receiver without painful fingersticks. the arrow shows the direction your glucose is heading: up, down, or steady, so you can make better decisions about food and activity in the moment. after using dexcom g6, my a1c has never been lower. i lead line dancing three times a week, i exercise, and i'm just living a great life now. it's so easy to use. dexcom g6 has given me confidence and control that everything i need is right there on my phone. (female announcer) dexcom g6 is the #1 recommended cgm system by doctors and patients. call now to get started. (bright music) neil: all right. debt ceiling we're still here. stay here for now. here is charles payne. charles: neil, thank you so much, my friend and good

afternoon, everyone, i