lot more sinister that we should be paying attention to. this god complex thing, when someone like john kerry says it's the almost extra dress teao think about saving the planet? you know, we've heard there are before. it sort of boils down to eugenics and policies that actually exacerbated the irish potato famine. the current saviors of the planet are okay with strip mining this whole world, forcing child labor, limiting resources, limiting growth, everything in the world to sort of bring in, usher in their utopia. the scary stuff is what about the 80% of the world that has never been on an airplane? how about we allow them to have some personal growth before we hit the pause button? just saying. liz claman, over to you. liz: well, exactly. thank you so much, charles. stocks are in the red but off session lows after federal reserve vice chair lyle braynard did not go -- lael bray lael

brainard started to flutter her wings in a a speech at the university of chicago's boot school of business. braynard if backing smaller rate hikes saying inflation is easing. the fed had says december's industrial production index pointed to a significant weakening in the manufacturing sector and that retail sales report pointed to a further moderation in consumer spending. so you put that together with this, start the default clock. the default deadline clock. the u.s. has officially hit the debt limit ceiling with the u.s. government now blocked from borrowing more money to pay its outstanding bills. plus, you've got recession fears bubbling up, so let's look at the markets. dow jones industrials kind of tried to make an early go of the green, hit resistance and is now adding 101 points to yesterday's to 613-point drop can. but at the lows of the session, the dow had been down 314. let's get to the famed fox business heat map, and do we have some green? yeah, we do.

united health, chevron, merck. but at the bottom, home depot, 3m and american express. we need to get you up to speed with what's going on with amex and the reason behind the weakness because it does tie to recession worries and a big headline that came out of discover financial. a bunch of credit card issuers getting slammed after discover revealed its fourth quarter chargeoff rate, meaning share of outstanding balances that the company has written off as a loss, that jumped from 1.92% to 2.37%. now, that might not seem huge to you, but it could be a canary in the coal mine, and that is why you see the credit card issuers getting slammed. let's show you what's heading senatorward. s&p leaders, truest, got some financials in there, you've got expedia, service now. but when you look at the s&p laggards, you can see that they are from a bunch of different sectors. n phase energy and solar, obviously, from the energy area, northern trust, charles schwab, financials, and then generac,

which is an industrial, which takes us back to the debt ceiling drama. this morning treasury secretary janet yellen officially notifying congress, which must, of course, vote for lifting the borrowing limit or not, that treasury is now officially taking extraordinary measures to preserve what cash the government has left to pay its outstanding bills. that buffer is expected to run out by june. as the standoff between democrats and republicans who want to see spending cuts before agreeing to lift the borrowing limit continues, today in davos both goldman sachs' ceo david solomon and jpmorgan chief jamie dimon warning, do not play political games to hold off on raising the debt limit. with dimon if saying, quote: even questioning the government's ability to pay its bills is the wrong thing another. what might the consequences be for investors or and market volatility? joining me now, david kelly, jpmorgan's chief global strategist. david, we also have moody's

right now warning investors that they should get ready. an agreement on the u.s. debt is likely to be reached very late, and that could, quote, potentially contribute to flare-ups in financial market volatility. what should investors brace for? >> well, it is very worrying. i mean, i just wanted to ebb coe what jamie dimon said, this is utterly irresponsible to even have the debt ceiling as part of a conversation. there should not be a debt ceiling. that doesn't mean that we shouldn't control government spending, we absolutely should. and every annual appropriations bill has to be approved by a majority in congress. if congress wants to limit spending or tax cuts, it can do it, but through the appropriations process. this is the equivalent of, you know, you can always go on strike if you disagree with management. this is the equivalent of threatening to blow up the factory, so it'd be utterly stupid to use -- this should not be a negotiation ploy at all. but there's a risk because i think political polarization is high, and the other thing i'm kind of concerned about here is

because the interest rate's been going up, that's increasing the interest payments that the treasury has to make, and that's narrowing the window to come to agreement here. we used to think we could get so september without a real problem with the debt ceiling, now janet yellen is saying june. maybe it is june, but it's not much -- it's not later hand june, so we've got a limited period of time to fix this. liz you know, you should prepare, everybody should, for more volatility if this debt ceiling battle on the debt limit continues. all we have to do is look back to around july of 2011 when you had the same kind of standoff between republicans and democrats. the stock market, just between july and september, plummeted 15%, and it was really hard for a lot of investors to figure out what to do. right now our volatility may be ticking up a bitted today, but it's still at last cou expect tg flare-ups like moody's predicts? >> we could. i think it's particularly the

month of may things could get print hairy depending on how far, you know, people want to play political games. these should be separate issues. but in terms of what investors should do, i think you hope there's some resolution, temporary volatility we get lu it. but the other thing to say is if the worse happened, if we did actually default on the department, the cost of servicing would be permanently increased, it would permanently im306 rich the american people, but it would also bring could be the dollar, make other assets like european bonds or canadian equities or european equities look better. so a good question for investors is, well, how much do i have overseas? i think it makes sense to, you know, up a little bit in your investments in other developed countries where people are, perhaps, a little bit more responsible. liz: the dollar is weakening as we speak against all major currencies. it is down at least for the

greenback. to that point about overseas exposure, you're talking can anr mississippiers a debt ceiling disaster kit -- investors. among some of the ideas, you say make sure that you do actually have some exposure, broad diversification to high quality international stocks and bonds. but those denominated in foreign currencies. >> yeah. liz: can you just elaborate on that a bit? in well, yes, absolutely, because sometimes particularly with bonds you try and hedge it by you want to take the dollar out of it. but it we had an actual default on u.s. debt, the dollar would plunge. it would lose a lot of its status which would be terribly value to us, as the world's preeminent currency. i think it would be, but it would fall. and if it falls, international investments would go up in lockstep. so you want to, so i think it's important to have non-dollar-denominated assets. and the reason i say this, i

remember after 9/11 if everyone was told to get an emergency kit, batteries and water -- liz: oh, yeah. >> i thought it was a waste of money, but actually in the months after that, i used the batteries and the water. and when i think about it, in a normal portfolio you actually need some international assets anyway. it's a good idea. they're a good value right now. so i think it makes sense to add them to a portfolio if you're short, and it does give you some protection in case washington goes absolutely nuts here. liz: yeah. we've been showing some etfs that do have international exposure, and if you look at the ifa, it's heavy in financials and industrials. but nestle, asml, roche, shell, astrazeneca, these are blue chip companies here. david, thank you so much for joining us. >> anytime. liz: you know what's also hit a ceiling? the hot new a.i. program chat gpt. so many users are piling in to try it out that the chat bot microsoft is funding to the tune of more than a billion dollars,

it's reportedly hit full capacity. the controversial chat bot being used by everyone including a new york rabbi who asked it to write a sermon. rabbi josh franklin is here to tell the us why he did it and what he learned about a.i. and religion. and we'll get reaction from silicon valley pioneer scott mcnealy, cofounder of sun microsystems, on where chat gpt could really take the us. down a hole or up to the skies? it's a fox business exclusive. closing bell, 52 minutes away. those are two conversations you cannot miss. they are very on point, on business with everything that's going on. dow jones industrials lower by 137. "the claman countdown" is coming right back in just a minute. ♪ ♪ there are some things that go better...together. like your workplace benefits... and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together... can help you be better prepared

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liz: fox business alert, a quick look at microsoft shares. continuing to fall now about 1% lower, off the lows of the session. of course, yesterday they announced layoffs of 10,000 people. but ceo satya nadella love arishing praise -- lavishing praise, telling the "wall street journal" that microsoft's investment in open a.i. has huge potential. the technology is by artificial intelligence, and it creates content in a way that's amazingly similar to human response. a new york rabbi pulled a fast one on his congregation to underscore the stunning ability and potentially worrisome power of chat gp pt. a couple weeks ago rabbi josh franklin told his audience he was going to do something new. listen. ing. >> maybe something you're going to say at first is unethical,

but i'm going to do it anyways. i'm going to plagiarize the sermon. but it's a game. i'm going to play you the sermon and read you someone else's sermon, and you have to tell me who wrote it. liz: okay. after reading the sermon which interpreted a torah portion of por to giveness, he asked the congregation to guess who wrote it. here's what they thought. >> my father did not write them. >> larry hoffman. >> larry hoffman did not write them. the answer is going to be surprising. artificial intelligence. liz: in a fox business exclusive, rabbi franklin joins us live. [laughter] aside from who is larry hoffman, what give you with -- gave you the idea to do this? >> every single week i have to come up with new content. i give two sermons a week, and i saiding okay, i always look at the news headlines and chat gpt is the new hinge. what are the implications for

judaism, for rabbis, for sin synagogues and how we create content and spirituality. i thought let's type in some cues and see what we come up with. liz: the congregation was rivetted, and i listened to the whole sermon. i was, like, okay, you know, i'm getting it. you were talking about joseph and about forgiveness, and you were talking about intimacy, which i, you know, it started to resonate with me. but tell me your grade of the sermon that this chat bot spit out. >> i'll give it a b, maybe a b+if i'm being generous. to be honest, there are a lot of cues and things that rabbis shouldn't do in a sermon that i think chat gpt mimicked, some of the worst habits. liz: like? >> it started out9 with, friend- liz: romans, country mini-- [laughter] >> it addressed it in a weird way. another thing which is a typical device that wrap whys -- rabbis use, but it ended with a prayer. it turned the message into may we all have the ability to be

vulnerable which, for me, is clearly not my style, and my congregation would have recognized that. liz: well, you also said it caused you fear because the audience started clapping when you revealed who had written it. >> yeah. liz: you said you're clapping, i'm actually afraid. what are you afraid of? >> i'm afraid that chat gpt is going to get smarter and smarter and is going to be a better purveyor of content than a rabbi or intellectual might be. liz: do you really think it can do that? if can it show nuance? if can it differentiate between, you know, true sadness and then hope? >> maybe not those emotions, but what it did that did scare me is it was able to synthesize two separate ideas. so to say here's what the torah portion is, and i told the it to write a sermon about vulnerability and what the relationship between the sermon and vulnerability is, and service able to synthesize those two ideas and some -- come up with something strong and around tib late. liz: the implications for --

articulate. the implications for religious leaders, the implications for rabbis, pastors, priests, preachers, you think about the joel osteens of the world or you go back to the great rabbi hill el, can they really at some point figure out how to make chat gpt so insightful and intuitive that they could replace these people? >> the answer there is, no, and the reason why is chat gpt isn't really emphasize, it can't love, it can't show compassion, connect with the community. we're really forming relationships, we're adopting a sense of spirituality in god, and i don't think that chat gpt or any nonhuman entity can really foster those kinds of qualities. and that's what synagogues and jewish communities are really about. at our core i don't think chat gpt or any kind of artificial intelligence will replace us, but it'll force us to evolve in what we do and what we do best, and i think things are going to look different in a couple of

years. so i am a little worried about what things are going to look like. we all fear change and we're going to all have to change a little bit, but certainly, chat gpt's a great tool. liz: also there's the plagiarism issue and the ethics of it. how do you address that? >> i have no idea how to quote chat gpt, which is a problem -- liz: because it's quoting what it scrapes from the web and everywhere else. >> in college and grad school i know how to cite everything properly, i don't think anyone's come up with a way to properly attribute material to chat gpt. liz: are you going to use it again? if. >> i might as a tool but never in a way that plagiarizes. liz: rabbi josh franklin, gutsy move. you're the cool rabbi, i bet your congregants enjoy the experience. i mentioned we were going to talk about school systems, they arety write concerned that students are using chat gpt to cheat on homework and essays. least five school districts have

banned students from using open a.i. system including new york city, los angeles i unified, seattle, fairfax county, virginia, montgomery county in alabama, and more are probably to come. is that the right move, or could artificial intelligence be used to democratize learning? let's bring in not just one of the original silicon valley pioneers, but also one of the first people to get into the online learning space with his nonprofit education platform. sun microsystems' cofounder scott mcnealy is here. the first, scott, what do you think of rabbi franklin's sermon experiment? >> well, i think it's wonderful that he's trying that the, i it's an important experiment to run all over the place. i don't think rabbis are in as much are threat of losing their jobs as lawyers. but maybe that's a good thing. you know, you think about getting a case and looking at case law and all the rest of it, chat gpt can do it a lot faster and cheaper than lawyers. so i i think there's going to be

a lot of -- i mean, calculator came on, and teachers were told you can't use a calculator during the math exam. that's all -- i think people are going to learn much more much faster and much more coherently because chat gpt has been used as a tool in creating curriculum. and that's the big opportunity that we see. our studio environment is integrating with the a.i. bots out will there so that teachers and content creators canen we wo interrupt that that curriculum 50 different ways so that as the kids watching the video or reading the text or writing things, we can interrupt and ask questions and verify in realtime whether they're comprehending. because reading something off of chat gpt doesn't mean you actually read it, you comprehend it and you can internalize it. and having interactive experiences are very important

especially especially in the k-college arena. liz: but it is certainly controversial. some people absolutely hate it and are worried about it, but will.i.am, of course, from black eyed peas just came out in davos and said he thinksst, quote, awesome. we had an australian singer or yesterday saying it's the devil incarnate, basically, because somebody tried to create a song in his style, and it came -- maybe he thought it was a little too close for comfort. but that said, you know, you mentioned that this is evolution, and the rabbi just said that as well. you talk about the evolution of education. we don't teach cursive handwriting anymore in school. do you see a bridge between real opportunity here for kids who aren't in private school who may really benefit from chat gpt? >> yeah, i do. and, you know, my that louis nation or dream or vision --

hallucination or dream or vision is that we get a whole plethora of content created in a standard format that's interoperable, engaging, leaderboarded and your experiences when you create and experience them is put into an online transcript or achievement portfolio for you. so you build your portfolio, and we want it to be -- curriki is a dot.org, and we're creating the standard. much like ppt is the standard with powerpoint in creating powerpoint presentations, we want the kurikki ark check you are the to be the standard for creating online learning expenses that'll lower the cost, lower the barriers to entry and interoperability and create a very, very chat gpt, let's just say, horse-powered environment that everybody can use. liz: okay. >> the skills obsolescence in

today's work force is 20 the-30% per year. if you're not in the work force and constantly retraining yourself, in a few years you're going to be obsolete. liz: well, in many cases. i don't think that business anchors are going to be obsolete, but maybe reviewers are. so what we did, scott, was we put into chat gpt, my producer9 and the team, basically, give a review of fox business' "claman countdown." a much watch for anyone interested in the world of finance, great tool for invest thers and business professionals, and as for me, claman is a seasoned journalist, brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the show, conducts her interviews with precision and skill. i was loving it until it started to completely rip charlie gasparino. no, i'm kidding, it diss not. [laughter] >> i think that's important, but it cuts both ways. i i saw somebody, i didn't do it

myself, but they tasked what do you think can of donald trump, and chat gpt said i can't say anything about that, but when asked about obama, it e fused and gushed -- liz: it's already learning one side of things. >> there's algorithms, there's who you let it learn from, all the rest of it, that isn't necessarily open. so when you -- i've told my boys anything you see on the other side of glass you have to take with a grain of salt, with a huge dose of skepticism. unless you see it, hear it, touch it with your own hands, you really don't know whether you're getting deep faked. and chat gpt could be deep faked also. liz: well, exactly. i'm glad you ended on that point. scott, it is so great to have your perspective on this. happy new year and thanks for joining us. >> thank you. liz: scott mcnealy. we are coming right back. dow jones industrials down about 135 points. we're moving fast. ♪ ♪ i'm so glad we did this.

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liz: fox market alert s and here we go, but now have the tow down 125 points. s&p lower by 13, the nasdaq can lower by 51 points. shares of more wee january cruise liningss -- lines unable to stay afloat after the cruise operator expects a net loss for the fourth quarter and full year 202 the as well as the first quarter of this year. shares are dropping 4.5%. more wee january is forecasting

full-year revenue between $4.5-5 billion which is in line with estimates. norwegian blamed continued uncertainties in its operating environment. insurer all a state seeing, well, let's call it mayhem after those commercials, when it comes to its stock. this after home and big car insurer expects to swing to a fourth quarter net loss of between $285-335 million. pleasure allstate anticipates quarterly pretax catastrophe losses of $779 million driven by heavy claim costs from winter storm elliott which, as many of you remember, struck during the week before christmas. allstate getting hit, and it's down 6%. a double downgrade for charles schwab. bank of america slapping an underperform rating on the brokerage and lowing -- lowering its price target to $75, it's a. schwab may lose the benefit of high irritate -- higher rates.

bofa says clients will move cash out of schwab accounts and reallocate it into higher yielding money market funds. when was the last time you heard that? but they are now finally in some cases. all right. and at hour we should look at other companies that are brokerages. morgan stanley is down 2.33%. robinhood is down 2.5%. we should look at shares of philip morris international, lighting up about 2.33% after jeffries upgraded the tobacco company to a buy and raised its price target to $1 is 18 from -- 118 from 86. it's at 101 and change. philip morris is leading the shift in what's call called reduced risk if products which are smokeless alternatives to cigarettes that are seen as less harmful. jefflys also sees the firm will benefit if it suck ceedz in its

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liz: we need to look at home builders right now. they are dipping into the red, down anywhere from 1-2.5% after the commerce department lotterred home-building activity continues to slow. while beating estimates, housing starts in december dropped 1.4% month over month to the lowest level since july. but single-family home building actually jumped 11.3% month over month. and you want to see a jump? while sill off 35 if % from a year ago, mortgage applications rose nearly 30% over just the last week. home buyers rushing to apply for mortgages as the average 30-year

fixed mortgage rate dropped 10 bay pointses this week to 6.36% -- 6.36%. has the housing market hit a bottom? let's talk to the guy who builds and sells homes across the cus in a fox business exclusive, ara hovnanian. ara, i know everybody asks you this, has housing hit a bottom. just tell me what you're seeing in your business right now. >> well, we definitely saw a lot of change during 20 the 32 -- 20 to 22 as rates went from 3% up to 7. there was a lot of sticker shock, and buyers hesitated. hay moved to the sidelines. but as rates gradually stabilized and dropped a little bit to 6%, they came out of the sidelines. hay got adjusted expect d expectations got adjusted, and we're definitely starting to see a pick-up. was it like the covid surge? are we peeling that? is it like '20 the and '21? no.

it's definitely slower than that. but is it better than the fall? yes. we're definitely feeling a lot more -- liz: we are getting existing home sales tomorrow. i want to show what existing home sales did over the past couple of years because, yes, you just referenced what home sales were doing just after the lockdowns. and when we look at this chart, you can see that a dramatic drop, that was the lockdown, and then suddenly everybody was trying to buy a home. you saw the big spike, and now you see a real degradation, down well below -- well, not well below, but close to or at the 2020 initial drop. you know, talk to the would-be sellers and buyers right now about where you feel the real winning area is. >> sure. well, first of all, the existing home sales news is actually good news. the reason, part of the reason it's so low is there are only one million homes for sale in the u.s. right now. that's way below average.

two million homes available around the country to buy is normal. we're at half that level. so if you don't have the supply, you can't get the sales. i think that's going to help strengthen the market more quickly. liz: okay. now, what about the building area of this all? a lot of home builders last year even though there was enough inventory just kind of stopped the building. now we've got lumber way off the highs of the past couple of years, and there's some opportunities, i would think. are you building more? are you kind of waiting to see if we bottom out? >> no, we're definitely selling fewer homes than during the covid surge. and, therefore, we're building fewer homes. you know, '20 and '202 21 and '22 the, those were phenomenal years of profitability. we had revenues about $3 billion, pretax income of over

300 million. it's unlikely that we'll repeat that in '23. but the market's firming, it's definitely returning to a more normal state. we'll see what happens with mortgage rates, and that certainly affects psychology. but right now the spring selling season is off to a good beginning as early as it is. liz: yeah. and your sock is very close to a 3-month high, certainly. ara, you just reference ared mortgage rates. a year ago january they were 3%, now we know what they are, above 6%. they had gone as high in some cases as 7%. if you had the federal reserve's ear, what would you say? because they are very concerned about inflation, and they have made no bones about it. they will not stop the hiking rates or they will not cut rates, certainly, before or the end of this year. >> well, the fed focuses on short-term rates with hair movement. -- their movement. long-term rates and mortgage rates specifically, obviously, move to a slightly different

beat. so a little adjustment up in short-term rates might be okay. for long-term rates. so far they've been stable. if it stays somewhere around the 6% range for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage, i think that can provide for a really good backdrop for housing. liz: well, historically, if you go back to the '80s, we know -- [laughter] 18, 20%. i mean, people got very spoiled over past couple of years. finally, anything that you're most worried about? >> well, no. what's interesting is there's a real divide between the west coast and the east coast. the west coast is certainly slower right now than the east coast. which has been very strong. there's very little invenn story the on the east coast, much more so on the west coast. we're certainly focused on acquisitions on the west, but there are still opportunities -- land acquisitions, but there are

still opportunities out there. liz: yeah. >> as i said, we're being cautious, but we're -- liz: and you say you're starting to see a pick-up. it's good to see you, ara. >> you as well. liz: thank you so much. reports are swirling that crypto media outlet coin desk is tapping bankers for a potential sale. coin desk is the one who broke the ftx story. who's buying? charlie gasparino is about to break that story coming up. with the closing bell ringing in 15 minute, the dow is further entrenching into the red, down about 180 points. don't go away. ♪ ♪

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♪ liz: digital. currency group, the parent of crypto news web site coin desk, is apparently on the hunt for a potential buyer. coin desk played a pivotal role in outing sam bankman pried and his ftx house of cards. carr charlie gasparino knows someone who's already expressing interest? genesis, one of the properties, may file for bankruptcy week. that's the whole fallout from the gemini fallout. they were the liquidity provider who can't provide the liquidity,

so there's an issue here about their funding and their solvency. amid all this, you know, some of the casualty is extending -- liz: or they need the money. >> and they could probably get the money. they're shopping this both in davos, the ceo of coin desk is in davos, apparently, shopping thing. there's a book out there. it's labeled or estimated to be -- they're looking for a valuation of $200 million. puts out $50 million a year in revenue, so it doesn't do nothing, but it's a little bit of a steep price. and charles has kinison is interested. he's one of the top guys in crypto, one of the founders of etherium. he's rich, he's a billionaire. we just put out a great tweet that he said what they're trying to sell it at is very expensive, but i'm one of the richest guys still in the space. charles, in my view, is

diversified. he's not just in ether. he's got holdings. he's a smart guy, one of the smarter guys i've met in this space. so he's looking at it. others are looking at it. lazard is the banker, i think the journal broke that yesterday. but the ceo is in davos, will continue to raise money to keep it going in its current state or sell it. that's where we are right now. liz: coin desk is good. they have some good writers. i use them all the time the. >> yeah, listen, it definitely helped them in selling this thing that they broke the sam bankman-fried story. there is no doubt that helped them. now, that also hurt them too. that led to the further implosion of crypto and prices going down and genesis and gemini had their issues right after the ftx collapse and some of the uncertainty in the market. so no doubt. they broke that story. it was a great story. listen, i read 'em, they're smart, they're good. there's a value that they're worth. they also, apparently, have a conference, a good conference

business, so there's other things there. i just wonder, you know, liz, and here's what i'm going to say about their valuation of $200 million. that's based on what the business is maybe today or maybe yesterday. you do know that this business has more to go in terms of right sizing. it's down from $3 trillion to less than a trillion right now, about $800 billion. a huge loss -- liz: shrinkage, and it could shrink more. >> that's what they want now. reality often sets in. charles could buy it for $200 million, if that was what he wanted to do. i don't think he will. if he does buy it or whatever, he's going to do some interesting things, make journalists get paid royalties. hay get paid more money if you keep clicking lu it, not just sal arely. liz: chat gpt won't replace -- >> who?

chachi? liz: no, chat gpt. >> what is that? oh, artificial intelligence. liz: yes. it's the a.i. chat bot. we asked it to review the show, charlie. it really liked the show, and then we said what is charlie gasparino's journalistic style. charlie is known for his aggressive style of journalism particularly in his coverage of wall street, financial news. known for breaking major stories and for strong opinions and colorful language. he's also known for his use of sources inside the financial industry to gain valuable, exclusive information. then they said he does, however, lose points for wearing a fanny pack and tank the tops on vacation. [laughter] >> it's true. i do -- liz: we added that part. that part did not -- [laughter] >> i do, i do -- the fanny pack, in my view, is the best invention since the umbrella. liz: i couldn't agree more. >> you work out with it, you hang out with it -- liz: yeah, but the muscle tank tops? >> yeah, i don't know. you know, i grew up wearing

those things. there's a certain cultural element to. i don't have to drag down my people anymore. liz: great review other all from chat gm t. >> why wouldn't you get a good review, big red. liz: six minutes away from the closing bell. show intraday of dow jones industrials. 91 points. right now we're down 204 points at the moment. not necessarily the low of the session. you see it starting to head down again. today's losses send the dow into negative territory for the year. but the year is so young. you know what? after the bell, netflix. netflix is gearing up to report fourth quarter earnings, as soon as we hear the bell. wall street expects earnings to come 45 cents a share. folks that is a 66% decline

year-over-year. our "countdown" closer is a big fan of the streaming giant. he was for ages. but now, are you turning bearish, jeff sica? what is going on? >> what i see, i've been a fan of netflix since 2014. they were in trouble. i anticipated they would turn it around. they had turned it around. they became a iconic company, this tremendous brand. now what we have with netflix, a little while ago they came out, all the streamers came out, the estimate was we're going to spend $150 billion on content. i looked at that, i said there is trouble. netflix tanked t went it went do $177 a share. there was talk the subscriber growth had become very sluggish. what we're seeing in earnings, the stock rebounded significantly off its bottom. i've been a big advocate when it declined. it is rebounding now.

at much more lofty valuation. liz: okay. >> but the one issue we're going to have is that this will be the final time that netflix will report subscriber numbers. so they're expecting about 4.5 million subscribers but they're opting to not report subscribers. they're now going to just report going forward, they're just going to report earnings and things like that but there is also that ad tier revenue. the ad tear revenue is what they're focusing on. i think it is dumb. i think it is not going to work. liz: they had to do it, jeff. >> they had to do it because most of us like me, probably you, we're spending, it is like a car payment to pay my streaming bill every month. sew we're spending all this money. they had to do it. they had no choice but now there is market sat wages. liz: looking at all the streaming disney, warner brothers, paramount, netflix,

et cetera, look at netflix price-to-earnings ratio, 28. not exactly cheap. paramount is cheapest. paramount is at four. disney, 56. pe of 56. apple, 21. amazon, 85. warner brothers discovery they're not making money. tough pick one, if not netflix which one? >> i would pick paramount. liz: really? >> these are like the hot clubs in the '80s. one would do great, people would go to it. they find another one, they go to that. that is what they're doing with streamers. people describing for a show they like on paramount, yellowstone, and once they drop their subscription. software that helps them drop the subscription. paramount has a big library. content is king. i would go with them.

>> talk about the dow jones industrials, down 23points. now negative for -- 237 points. negative for the year. what is the 30,000 feet investing stocks for the year? >> i think now is a very dangerous time. the reason why i feel that way, now, saying don't fight the fed. that has worked. now the fed has taken the opposite side, they have become extremely hawkish. they're going to with, they have and inflation goal of 2%. they're going to raise rates into this. as long as they keep raising rates into this market, you're going to feel like you're driving with the, with your, hitting the gas with the brakes on because the market will not get ahead of itself as long as the fed is working against it. liz: if you're picking stocks, blackstone, epd. what is the common thread? >> i love black stone. i love the company. i love steve schwarzman, vision behind the company. you can buy, get 6% dividend, in

of itself a solid company, is a good thing. you have a company, a lot of blackstone's declines came as a result of when they gated the withdrawals out of their private equity, their $69 billion private equity fund, a lot of people panicked over that. i did not. i was very vocal about the fact that i anticipated that. it was necessary for them to do that. but, i, i still think it's a great company. i think it will do well. liz: thank you, jeff. >> thank you. liz: always good to have you here on the set. here we go, blue-chips, red for the year. the dow heading back down. [closing bell rings] liz: looks to lose 254. schaap down 29. nasdaq down 109. stay tuned for a special fox business town hall, "kudlow, restoring business in america." i will see you tomorrow. [applause] larry: hello