charles: surprise! once again a free money scheme designed to fundamentally change america is going to cost taxpayers a whole lot of money and, of course, the media thinks it's a good thing. it's not like the headline would suggest, a pleasant surprise that companies would line up for free taxpayer cash. by the way, the article does acknowledge tesla's going to get a billion dollars this year, ford $7 billion in tax breaks from '23-'26, and all that money is coming from the inflation reduction act. so that cost they told the cbo of 31 billion, it's going to be 136 billion and, yeah, it's going to add to inflation. well, that's what we get for progress, right, liz? liz: what's cocouple concern a couple hundred billion among friends? charles: at this point -- [laughter] liz: exactly. we kick off the final hour of trade. it's a met a the -- meta world, and tech stocks are just living in it. you are looking at a textbook

case of one single stock's quarterly earnings directing all the traffic in its sector. take a look at meta. facebook's parent is having the best day in nearly a decade, jumping 23% right now. and its second best trading day ever. meta is surging right now not just on a revenue beat and the fact that across 2 billion daily active users, but relief that ceo mark zuckerberg has apparently woken up from his all-in on the met a the verse dream and has pronounced 2023 the year of efficiency. he's got plans to cut costs this year by $5 billion, so this stock is popping $35 to clash 1 # 8 and change. -- $188 and change. meta's rising tide is lifting all social e media boats. you look at met a, you know, the others aren't up nearly as much, but nap's gaining about 8.5% -- snap's gaining about 8.5% after not a great report -- quarter it just reported.

it's not just the subsector of social media that's lifting, the nasdaq is going parabolic. the tech-heavy index is up 254 points right now or two full percentage points thanks in great part to meta. in fact, it is close to the exiting bear market territory which it entered back on march 7th of 2022. so it needs to be up 20%, it's up 18.1%. needs to close up 439 points, we're not there yet, obviously. we're up 255 at the moment. we're keeping an eye on it, could happen because already high of the session, 453. met a that also is second best performer on the s&p 500 driving the index higher by 29 points. this is styward concern skyward -- skyward. we are less than an hour away from the biggest afternoon of earnings season for trick tech. after bell apple, alpha bent and amazon will open their books for the quarter. all three are moving higher

right now. amazon is expected to report slowest sales growth in decades. we're looking at google, google is expected to post a drop in the ad revenue, and apple might just see its first revenue decline in three years. but ache a look at the dow if you want to see some red. if you're a short seller, i don't know. it's the one index in the red right now, down 216 points. low of the session, 278 to the downside. it's in the red because it has less of an emphasis on edge. we all know that. you're looking at unitedhealth group, that's the worst blue chip at moment. is, perhaps, hangover from the big fed if party yesterday where everybody heard somewhere in the ether that fed chair jay powell was going to stop hiking rates and that yesterday was the last one? you never know. but look who's the dow leader, it is microsoft. massive investment in open a.i., the company behind wildly popular a.i.-driven chatgpt is paying off. the stock up 3.33%.

here's the news today, chatgpt just set the record for fastest growing user base in history. it reached 100 million monthly users just two months after november launch. coming up, a pair of powerful voices joining us live, senator mark warner, chair of senate intelligence committee. is meta about to get more good news? senator warper's -- warper's driving the push -- senator warner's driving the push to ban tiktok. what has he seen, and how close is he to putting forth a bill to ban it and, yes, we will ask hum about the documents that are, you know, being found in president biden, president trump and, of course, vice president pence's garages? yeah, there's breaking news on that too. mark warner coming up. and as meta's zuckerberg goes heavy on a.i. and light on the metaverse, facebook whistleblower frances haughen is here on whether chatgpt might

worsing the problem -- worsen the problem by letting artificial if intelligence take wheel. first, does in the optimism on the ticker you see right now especially with tech show that tech is back on track, sor should you be selling into in the rally right now? to the floor show is, longtime meta trader teddy weisberg, and scott redler, trader, joining us. teddy, you've been recommending meta through thick and thin. does this mean tech as a whole is back on track, or should investors be selling into this rally? >> i think we've gone from a near death experience not more than six months ago when the stock was trading at $88, and here we are today, it was actually up to 196 today. we've gone from way oversold perhaps to way overbought, maybe time to take a little money off the table. it's amazing what's happened in a matter of six months. it used to take the 50 years to see these kinds of moves in stocks, and now we see them in a day, in the case of meta. it's really quite amazing. liz: what do you glean from the,

scott redler? you see one stock lifting an entire sector the higher, and not just social media, but technology. all of these names. i mean, i just looked randomly at arrow electronics. we've had ceo, mike long, on many times mt. past. arrow is up 10% right now. they're basically a middleman, they do warehousing of technology software and hardware, etc., but if you look at that, you can see here's a stock we don't often talk about doing incredibly well. so does the mean that when you looked at all of the levels here, they're just busting up to the upside, and the algorithms are saying go in and buy? >> listen, it budget just all meta. this tech rally started in early january, and it accelerated when netflix actually came out first. netflix came out with a solid report after a big move from the lows, and it proved that it could actually go higher post-earnings. then you had tesla come out, right? that the also had a decent move from the lows and proved that it can go higher. and amd. so during this whole process

shorts have been trapped, and there's been optimism building. so when meta came out, everybody thought, hey, it's priced in. but you know what? they delivered on so many metrics, you had a whole other round of short squeezes that i think it's almost to the point where it's hard to replicate that. i know we have amazon, google and apple coming after the close, 4 # 196 was a lot of targets for technicians like me on the s&p. i've been using today to sell into strength, i used the earlier part of the week to buy, and yesterday when we triggered above the pattern for the s&p, i think we're due for somewhat of a rest, and it's going to be hard for this type of action to continue under these parameters. liz: sell into the move, teddy. and, teddy, again, i bring up meta because it is the star stock story of the day along with align technology. we'll tell people more about that later. but you were saying buy this name at 88 when it was low. what was it that you saw? tell our investor audience how

you are able to look at something and say, you know what? this is not going to be the end of this company. >> well, of course, i just look at it from a kind of a back of the napkin analysis. i'm not a cfa. the foot print that meta has as a company, i don't know of any company that has the footprint that they have in terms of the numbers of users. somebody once told me, which is kind of interesting, that if meta were a country, it would be the world's third largest country after china and india, third would be meta. i mean, it's an enormous company with an enormous footprint, and they have some products like whatsapp which is not terribly popular in the u.s. but is very popular -- liz: oh, europe, forget it. >> and they've never been able to monetize the it, and now they're just beginning to make some progress in monetizing it. so i think there's a lot more to come. i like the name, and i'm happy holding it. i wasn't so happy when it was 88, i'm feeling a little better

today. laugh. liz: well, you get to say i told you so, everybody. scott redler, of course, we had the federal reserve yesterday announcing a quarter point rate hike, this was a unanimous decision, the eighth in a row. we had a big argument here on this set about what did you hear from jay powell, and i heard him say we're not done, and it's too early to say we have reached victory. but when you look at it from a technical standpoint and here we have the 10-year treasury yield, the 3.399%, what is that telling you about equities? >> it seems the market doesn't believe that the duration the ped is saying is going to happen. right now the fed is basically saying they're going to stay whatever their ceiling is for the course of 2023, but the market doesn't think so. yesterday what happened during the conference call, he didn't really push back. for the first time, he didn't push back. he pushed back at jackson hole, he pushed back on the last fed meeting. this was the first time he was, like, well, inflation's coming

down, gdp's holding in there, the job market's being resilient, so maybe -- liz: yeah, teddy, did you hear that? what did you interpret? >> i thought it was a pretty benign meeting. this quarter point bump, we've talked about this in the past, you know, between 2004 -- maybe scott wasn't in the business then -- [laughter] and 2007, greenspan, they raised interest rates a quarter of a point almost at every meeting for three years, and the market kept going up. i think if he wants to raise rates if he does it a quarter point at a time, i think the market can absorb that, it's not a problem. we don't know how high they're going, but i think this is the new normal. we're not going back to zero, that's not happening. h liz we're not in an emergency situation anymore. scott, teddy, thank you, gentlemen, we appreciate it. as we await apple and google, they're going to report after the bell, news breaking today that colorado senator michael bennett is calling on both apple and alphabet to ban tiktok from

their app stores. what does democratic senator mark warner of virginia think? he's the chairman of the senate intelligence committee and has already thrown down the quantity let against the chinese app. would he support tiktok getting kicked off app stores? we will ask him straight up, should i, and why should i delete my tiktok channel and go dark on my quarter of a million followers to whom i've been doing business tiktoks? what evidence does he have that china's using it to spy on americans? we'll find out. we're about 49 minutes away from the closing bell. so the dow's in the red, yes, down 210, but you see we've got nasdaq on the lower right-hand bug here because it is the star index at the moment, up 270 points or 2.25%. we are just getting started on "the claman countdown." senator warner joins us live next. ♪ ♪

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♪ liz: a new development at this hour on the push to to push tiktok off americans' phones as accusations swirl that the wildly popular app is being used by china to spy on americans. today colorado senator mike bennett called on apple and google to boot tiktok off their app stores due to ongoing national security concerns. the democratic senator is a member to have senate intelligence committee and sent the ceos of both companies a letter saying it's, quote, irresponsible to the make the app available the way it is. how much closer does this inch tiktok to being banned here? virginia senator mark warner is the chairman of the senate intelligence committee and has been working to solve the tiktok chaos. senator, great to have you on. we've got a lot to talk about. do you agree with senator men innocent? should apple and google's app

stores cut off access to the tiktok app? >> well, i've been raising concerns about tiktok for months, and let's go into the two concerns i have. one, the amount of data that tiktok is collecting. so many of our users are kids, on our kids that that data resides in china. and even though tiktok has said that's not the case, there have been constant examples where it has been proven that chinese engineers are still getting access to that data. second piece eally, is more concerning to me. you said wildly popular, about 138 million americans are regular users of tiktok and the thing is, liz, they're on for an average of 90 minutes a day. i bet fox business wish they had viewers that would be an average of 90 minutes a day. and my concern with that is not that tiktok was going to create video content, but the algorithms that drive what you see very much is controlled by tiktok leadership.

and my concern since every company in china now has to owe its first allegiance not to shareholders or customers, but to the communist party that they could, the communist party could say, well, we don't can want to show any videos that are all flattering to taiwan, or we want to make sure any video about taiwan only shows taiwan as part of china. so the ability to use this as a misinformation or propaganda piece is huge. now, what do we do about it. my concern is -- and not just with tiktok -- is that we've kind of dealt with these foreign technology, national security concerns on an ad hoc basis. a few years back we went after a russian software company, more recently the government has gone after huawei, and now there is growing, bipartisan concerns about tiktok. i think we need a legal basis, most likely in commerce department, that would give this ability to look at these

applications and foreign technology from a national security standpoint and give that entity the tools to limit or in certain cases ban foreign technology security applications. i mean, the thing is we're doing it ad hoc at in this point. we need to get ahead of this rather than what we've been doing, for example, with huawei and now with tiktok chasing after the fact. liz: you've been working on a national security deal, i know this, to give an american company or entity the opportunity to take over the u.s. assets of tiktok. how close do you see the government getting to that? >> well, liz, they've been working on that for two years. liz: yeah, cfius. >> cfius and this, again, cfius is one way to attack. there's some legal problems even there. but if this was easy, i think the justice department, treasury would have come up with a solution. on these technology problems where if the source code still resides in china and if the

engineers are updating these applications to not static on a regular basis, where are those upgrades coming from? so, you know, i've said i'm willing to give tiktok and biden administration the chance to make the case, but my patience is running thin, and now you see my friend michael bennett calling for its removal, governors of both parties doing it at the state level. i'm not saying it's impossible to have a technology proposition here that could accept -- separate, but it's a big, big hill to climb, and that's why i think we need, again, a firmer legal basis to go forward not just on tiktok. this is not going to be the last are time we have a foreign technology/national security issue. liz: senator, you said just at the top of this conversation that there are constant examples of possibly the ccp curating and pushing certain information before american kids versus what goes in front of the chinese kids or people. userses of these things. what -- users of these things.

what specifically, what hard and fast proof or evidence do you have of that? >> well, liz, here is the issue, you know? the fact that there is a very different version of tiktok that the chinese kids see, you know, that you can pick up on every day. the chinese version of tiktok has videos that reinforce if science, engineering, love of country. the tiktok that our kids or americans, not just americans, but people around the balance of the world see, not the case. and i'm not making the suggestion that at this moment many time that the communist party in china is manipulating the videos about taiwan or any other subject, but i am saying if you've got the source code in beijing and the engineers are upgrading that, those algorithms on a regular basis, you can't prevent that from happening. that's, again, the question that came around with huawei.

and why we've been successful taking huawei out of a number of countries. it wasn't at this moment in time huawei was scraping or listening in on your communications -- liz: right. >> -- but the fact that the chinese communist party could command huawei to do that at any point in the future and we would not be able to stop it? that's the kind of analogy i'm making on tiktok. liz liz senator, president trump tried to do this, he wanted oracle or some other u.s. entity to take over the servers. it's interesting to see bipartisan belief that tiktok is somehow concern there's something going on inkid yous there with the ccp, the chinese communist party. anybody who watches this show in particular knows i do fin talks, financial tiktoks where i kind of guide people. you and i have talked about this. give me the reason i should just end my tiktok channel and get rid of my 255,000 the followers and just said good night to them

even though i'm just basically teaching them about economies and the markets. >> as recently, actually, i think it's been about a year and a half now, the american military has said without a lot of fanfare they don't want any active duty member to have tiktok on their phones. more recently, josh hawley got unanimous support to say the federal government should not allow tiktok on their phones. i don't want to say everything on tiktok is bad. matter of fact, there's a lot of extraordinarily creative things. and, liz, if you've got 250,000 plus followers on tiktok, i don't think people that are following you are going to be in any kind of harm from your content. but what i worry about is that the algorithms on tiktok are so sophisticated, so direct without you necessarily choosing -- liz: facebook does that too,

senator. >> well, they do it but not -- if you look at just the volume of code, the volume of code is exponentially higher on tiktok, number one. and number two -- and i've point out problems on facebook for years. i still think it's crazy that the united states government has not put any guardrails in place. but there is a major difference. for as many challenges as meta or facebook may have, it is still a company that the united states government or other governments don't control can. there's no question that at the end of the day chinese states explicitly any company in china -- look at the law change in 2016 -- has to be, first and foremost, responsible -- liz: yes, that is true. >> -- to the communist party of china. liz: that said, to a more serious subject, this news just breaking, your senate intelligence committee has sent another letter now to the attorney general, merrick garland, in essence saying that biden and trump, both the presidents, have mishandled documents. this is the second letter you

have sent, and you wrote in it, as of this writing, neither of you have complied with these requests. our jurisdiction is clear as is our responsibility. what do you hope to get from that letter? what do you want that you're not getting right now about these mishandled documents? >> well, liz, i don't think the letter says that the documents have been mishandled. i think they probably have, but that's, frankly, not my job as an intelligence committee member, and i should point out this letter came from me and my vice chair, marco rubio. our job though is, and this is congressional, constitutionally-mandated oversight. our job is to make sure the intelligence agencies that created these documents or classified them, that if those documents were lost or got into an adversary's hand, would there be any damage done to our national security. and if there was, what have you done to mitigate that damage? that's what we do day in and day out with -- liz: they're ignoring you. >> they are, frankly, saying

concern and their position is untenable. the idea that somehow national security is going to be trumped by the desires of a special prosecutor? i'll quickly point out, you know, when the shoe was on the other foot and i was part of an investigation into russian involvement in, potentially in the trump campaign, you know, there was a special prosecutor, bob mueller. we still got access to documents, and we looked at those. and i think the administration is recognizing they have an untenable position. they should pursue the mishandling of the documents, let us do our job on intelligence oversight. liz: senator, it is wonderful to have how you. thank you so much. senator mark warner. we are coming right back. thank you.

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liz: fox business alert and, yeah, the nasdaq is still up about 2.7% here, a big jump of 322 points driven by, yes, meta. we've got the s&p up 47, the dow jones industrials down 104. so as good as meta is, there's only one stock that is going bigger than meta. at the very top of the nasdaq 100 and the s&p, it's align technology. it's on pace for its biggest one-day percentage gain in more than two years propelled by its very rosy vision for 2023. the maker of invisline beat analyst estimates on both sales and profit for the fourth quarter. arizona-based company expects first quarter sales to be flat but sees signs of stability

ahead, the stock is up 25 the % right now. concern 25%. that is a one-year high. haines brands moving in the opposite direction on pace for its biggest selloff in 15 years, down 28%. hanes. the clothing and undergarments maker announced it's eliminating its dividend as sales continue to slump. the company reported a 16% decline in sales for the fourth quarter as consumers pull back in the u.s. and international markets and retailers can cut orders to recues the they e. ferrari, though, hitting the gas after reporting full-year profits up 13% year over year-over-year. the stock is up 4.5% right now. the luxury sports car manufacturer expects an even better 2023 on what its ceo is calling, quote, persistently high demand for the company's high-priced sports cars. shareholders though are tuning out siriusxm after the radio, satellite radio company issued weaker than expected full-year financial guy dance for 2023. --

guidance, projected revenue below wall street expect asians. blaming weak auto sales because, yeah, they go through the auto radio and softer consumer spending in general for the bleak forecast. siri is down 9.5%. up next, as chatgpt's artificial intelligence becomes the fastest growing consumer software in history, pan core rah's box may have -- pandora's box may have just been opened. facebook whistleblower francis haughingen is here to tell us if there's an ethical trap being laid by the algorithms and what might be done to stop it and is that really necessary? we'll talk to francis when we come back. the dow's now down about 100 points. we're coming right back. ♪ ♪ lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us

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liz: we gotta keep hooking at meta and see if it holds the gains here. it is still up about 23%, $35 tacked onto the price at moment. it's on pace for its best day in nearly a decade can, and investors are cheering ceo mark zuckerberg's move to back off from putting all the company's chips on the metaverse and instead focus more on efficient efficiency at the company and art -- artificial intelligence. no doubt that focus being driven by chatgpt, the microsoft-backed chat bot that has stolen the big tech spotlight since it launched two months ago. how focused is zuck on a.i.? last night during the earnings call he mentioned a.i.12 times with the metaverse only getting a nod 7 times. and news out today that 100 million daily users, chatgpt is the fastest growing application in history. just for comparison, it took

tiktok about 9 months after its launch to reach 100 million users and took meta's instagram two and a half years. as big tech races to play artificial intelligence catch-up, could chatgpt and a.i. cause bigger problems or help solve longstanding questions about dangers of social media? woman who sounded the alarm bells about the way facebook's algorithmings cure rate content is joining us now, frances haugen, she leads a nonprofit called beyond the screen. frances, or welcome. thanks for being here. there's almost this frantic land grab in the a.i. space since chatgpt burst out into the world. is this worrisome if or not so bad from where you stand? >> i think it's important to remember that these are only the very tips of the spear when it comes to generative artificial intelligence. that means instead of just having to classify is this good or bad, is this a cat, is this a cog can, you start having a. di.

generate new things -- a dog. we're going to see chatgpt not just continue to you, but whole new start-ups built onto it. liz: frances, when you were at facebook and later as you testified before congress about it, one of the issues that you had with the way the the algorithms work is that they will, depending on what people look at -- and in this goes for tiktok, this goes for all kinds of social media sites -- if people look at something even if it happens to come before them and they glance at it in the horror or disgust or dismay, the social media a.i.s drive more of that to people's, you know, content and to your channels. chatgpt scrapes from the web when you ask it a question, does it not? tell me how you feel about that. >> so chatgpt can only tell us

things that it has learned from content that was otherwise available. that means that we need to be very careful when we depend on it, because it's not necessarily going to tell us true things, it's going to tell us things that it synthesized off of these other examples of text. i think the greatest danger is that it can mimic being a human which means it can blend in amongst, you know, actual users on a social media platform. liz: and give me an example of what that might look like. >> sure. so i repeated since my senate testimony that one of the largest dangers we face from social media is that there are people who have realized they can weaponize these technologies to influence our information environment. right now the easiest ways to find those kinds of actors is looking at repetitive behavior. that's because often the ways that they scale, the ways they grow their operations is through bots, you know, robots. right now those robots aren't very smart.

they might repeat the same things over and over again or have very slight variations. when you start getting things like chat gpt3 that can mimic acting like a human, they can blend in like they were real people. and we're going to invent a whole new generation of security technologies to find those bad actors, that coordinated inauthentic behavior. liz: if you were in charge of all of it, what would you do to either get rid of it, make it safer? >> so i think we're going to see a new generation of technologies, things like there's going to be a social media company called post news -- liz: yep, heard of it. >> -- that relies on the fact that there are relationships wean people. that, you know, if you and i were friends, you wouldn't judge the credibility of each of my statements based on just one message at a time the, you would instead look at the history of our relationship and how we related to each other, how i related to other people you knew. we're going to need more and more technologies like that,

those kinds of ways of computing credibility which is like a core part of that social media platform if we're going to be able to deal with these fake actors that seem to act like humans. liz: do you think that tiktok, we just spoke about it with senator mark warner, is dangerous? a lot of people just look at it and have a good time, you know? learning makeup tips and talking to german shepards -- [laughter] which is one of my favorite channels, but, yeah. [laughter] >> i'm personally, i have a whole vice around renovation of tiktok, like seeing the before and after, so i understand. the greatest danger, i think, when it comes to tiktok is that tiktok is a much more peer algorithmic feed than something like facebook or even twitter. that means that they have a simulation of you in their computer, and they're picking out what they think you're going to like. but it means that we have no idea why any given piece of content was picked for us.

and this might seem like it's not a big deal when it comes to renovation tiktok, but when you take into fact the number of people who are using tiktok to consume the news, it goes up by multiple folds every year, 2 or 3x year to year. imagine a world where, say, china invaded taiwan. do you really want china to be able to influence what news you get to learn or don't get to learn about a war like that? i think it's a major national security issue. liz: frances, a lot to think about here. i think senator warner would agree. i'm not sure 16-year-olds would, but we'll be watching the developments. thank you so much for joining us. >> my pleasure. liz: today's countdown closer has three groundhog day stocks that he thinks can survive and thrive even if the market sees six more weeks of winter. and former atlanta fed bank president dennis lockhart here to tell us why some market watchers don't believe what fed chair powell said about 50 times

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♪ ♪ liz: andy, i'm sorry, i think you're wrong. [laughter] i think you're wrong. i do not see powell pulling his foot off the gas yet. >> liz, i stand by my opinion. look, this is the same fed that told you one year ago that today fed funds would only be at 1%. they're at 4.75 now. i don't believe fed. i sill stand by fact that this is the last rate increase, and the fed eases by the middle or third quarter of this year. liz: -- last fed increase. he's not only one. the markets somehow heard that as well. futures markets are pricing in another 25 basis point increase in march which would lift the fed funds rate to 4.75-5%. but he wasn't the only one. a lot of people felt that this was the last rate tightening move in this cycle. what does the a former federal reserve president think? dennis lockhart, who was head of atlanta fed for a decade particularly around the time when the fed funds rate was exactly where it is right now. >> well, started there and then

it went to 0, and i lived with 0 for years. liz: yeahing. well, what did you hear fed chief powell say? >> i thought he was very balanced and measured and did not commit himself to any particular path of policy. i do believe that they will take another move of 25 basis points in the next meeting in march. after that they're going -- the committee will feel its way along, and that that will depend on the data, how the data come in and what they really feel they're dealing with. but overall, i think what you should take from chairman powell is this very strong resolve, and they're going to stick with it and not take their foot off the pedal, to use that metaphor, too quickly. liz: it almost felt with the market reaction where the dow had been down 504 points yesterday and suddenly it spasms to the upside that the markets heard something completely different. they heard a very dovish powell.

i heard powell say 50,000 times the job is not done yet, and it would be a very bad thing if we stopped before it was completed. inflation is very sticky, is it not? and it's hard to kill. you've got to cut off the head, not just the appendages. where is he now in that process? >> well, there was a very, i thought, very important, very interesting aspect of what he had to say, and he said they feel that the underlying rate is 4% or around 4%. and the questioner had said, well, if you an yulize some of the recent month over month rates, you get 2.5%. and he said, no, no, effectively he said we don't see it that way. liz: right. >> some of the disinflation in goods may be transitory. i think that was the way he stated it. so, to me, committee is seeing 4%, that's twice their target, you know? that's a lot of work liz: but yet, do you feel we're

headed for recession this year? >> i really don't know. i think the probabilities are shore and mild recession but we've gotten this far and i would not completely dismiss a soft landing. i think a soft landing is still possible. one of the reasons is because of the strength ever the labor market. liz: it is very strong. tomorrow we get the non-farm payrolls for january jobs report. could be a huge number. citi calling for 300,000. we'll see. when you talk about the strengths of this economy, getting through something in a mild recession, people need to understand something, warren buffett used to say i lived through 12 recessions and i hope i live through 12 more. they are supposed to come around every seven years. we've gone close to 14 years without one. why is everyone so fearful after mild recession coming? >> well i think, that's a big question, liz, but you know, i think one reason is because we

got so used to free money, to zero interest rates. it went on for years and years and years. liz: too long? >> i don't know. liz: yes, too long. >> i was a voter in december of '15 when we raised rates for the first time in six or seven years. liz: taper tantrum. >> that creates a habit believing that is normal. it really isn't normal. we've gone up to four 1/2, 4 and 3/4 likely shocks, traumatizes the system but it is not by historical standards outlandish as level of interest rates. liz: the bank of england tightened interest rates by 50 basis points, more than we did yesterday. the ecb also raised rates today. central bankers are saying too soon to declare victory over their very high inflation. if you had to guess, what will be the terminal rate where fed

chair powell and fomc, say, now we're done? some people say, market saying 4.9%. we heard many fed presidents say 5%, five and a quarter, five 1/2. >> could be. i think the best indication we have what they said in the december in the summary of economic projections 75 basis points before yesterday. so that would take us to 5, 5.25. it could go higher. it will depend on a great deal simply how sticky this last patch of inflation is, that they really have to get, get under control. liz: yeah. we need still, there is some prices that need to come down. my organic peanut butter is too expense system. good to see you. >> thank you, so much, liz. liz: dennis lockhart, former atlanta fed president. closing bell. we're four minutes away. nasdaq doesn't look like it will exit bear market territory. it came very close earlier.

right now we're less than 1% away from exiting that bear market. not there yet. from bears to punxsutawney phil, the groundhog. he saw his shadow this morning. i hate this. that is so tortuous for that poor thing. he saw his ahead dough. according to him or adults who think they know what he thinks six more weeks of winter. let's bring in our county "countdown" closer, with picks to keep you warm. lamarville lori. tell me why you big the three different names. semiconductor, free port mack moran and monster beverage. >> we're talking about -- liz: on holding. my mistake. >> we hold of them.

it is confusing. >> [inaudible] liz: how could i forget. >> a great growth story in the staples sector which you don't see a ton of those. this company, they're growing in asia-pacific over 80% a year. growing in north america 50% a year. investor were a little disappointed last year with the margins. they took about 3% hit to margins because of this supply chain issues they had to basically put on shoes rather than on planes, rather than on boats. they're past that management commentary about the fourth quarter sounds positive. we'll not get a look at the numbers till probably month, month 1/2 from now. commentary has been pretty good. they were not doing any discounting. we feel pretty good about that. freeport-mcmoran we talked about in the past. basically the biggest public copper miner out there that you can participate in. we think as electric grid gets

upgraded, electric cars which use up to three to four times as much copper as traditional gas cars and, just, the awakening of china from covid lockdowns we think that is interesting place to be and -- liz: nice three month chart there. i know that you feel maybe coca-cola which owns 16.7% or so of monster beverage might eventually buy the rest. look at nasdaq, talk about the market really quickly we have about a minute left, less than that. nasdaq up 361. is tech getting ahead of it self here? >> you forget what a brutal year tech had last year. it is off to a rocket start to begin 2023. we still think they have room to run. you look how the blue-chips held up last year, barely down while nasdaq was down 20%, 30% some of the indices. we still think it has some room to rebound. we think we'll see further strength in the first half, maybe see some pullbacks as we

get into the second half, start to see the what is going on with unemployment. right now it has been restricted to kind of the tech layoffs. we do think we'll see other unemployment pick up. there will be a little bit of concern as we get along. we think generally a pretty good year. liz: lamar, we shall watch it all as we do here on "the claman countdown". thank you so much for coming on. [closing bell rings] nasdaq short of out of bear territory. the biggest week since september of 2021. aa u.s. steel ceo david bird about his fourth quarter report. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. welcome to a new day a new show and our unfortunate continued dependence on big government i