have cable. cds, they're coming back with a vengeance, focus. they have done so well. and certificates of deposit, they're coming back. look at this, the highest volume since 2008 because they're yielding almost 2%. however, at one point it was 11.8% back in 1984. and then, of course, there's plastic. more precise, vinyl. that renaissance began a few years ago, but it's getting hotter and hotter. by the way, i love vinyl. sadly though, there's another plastic that's coming back with a vengeance, and that's credit cards. outstanding debt is a record, and by the way, the fees now have gone past 20. i gotta tell you something, in 1984 when doves cry was the number one song, paying 20% interest on credit cards, that makes me want to cry. over to cheryl casone, in for liz claman. cheryl: but still the '80s were the best decade. charles: i agree with you a thousand percent. charles: the music. to this fox market alert, the bulls are dipping their toes

into these the chop by waters as stocks come off of session lows. stocks mostly lower today, but we are near session highs as we kick off the final hour of trade. the dow jones industrial average has turned positive in the last few moments, we're up 117 points right now after being down, get this, at session lows 179 points. the s&p is still in the red by 11 points, and the nasdaq is down by 69. now the blue chip index has been searching for direction as it moves between gains and losses. gains in amgen, unitedhealth, merck helping to propel the dow into positive territory today. still for the week, here we go, the dow and the s&p 500 have given back their gains from earlier this week, and stocks remain under pressure from hotter than expected inflation data this week and some very hawkish fed talk. we're going to get into that in just a few moments. in fact, just yesterday st. louis fed president james bullard sent is markets into a tailspin chen he said he would not -- when he said he would not

rule out a 50 basis point hike, thenned today tom barkin said he supports a 25 basis point hike. either way, the fed is still believing it's got some work to do ahead. bar kin also said that the labor market is still quite hot and9 that the u.s. is making slow progress on inflation. now as the 2-year treasury climbs to its highest level in 3 month, many investors are ducking into bonds. they're looking for a safe haven. but could plaguing it safe have some -- playing it safe have some hidden dangers? let's get right to the floor show to find out where investors should be putting their money. in studio, great hill capital chairman tom hayes. tom, you say that the pain is being in safe, secure bonds and that the storm that everyone's waiting for has already passed. >> that's right. when even's crowded to one side of the boat, cheryl, it usually doesn't work out well. managers are the most overweight bonds relative to stocks than they've been since the pandemic

lows in 2020 and the great financial crisis lows in 2009, and we both know that was a time to buy equities not bonds. the reason we know this is that since 1950 every cycle the stock market bottoms 6-9 months before earnings bottom. so even if you're pessimistic and you think earnings are going to come down a little bit, that october bottom may be in. we're up 18% since then, and what we find is that you could miss the next move higher. the pain of being in bonds is the negative real yield, which is -1.5% after inflation -- and then the second bit of pain is what if we continue to climb that wall of worry. we discounted the slowness in 2023, in 2022 with the stock market crash. we're going to discount the strength of 2024 earnings recovery in 2023, and i think people are underestimating that right now. charles: -- cheryl: i've heard this line of thinking because every ceo in davos in particular was saying recession, recession, recession. maybe you're talking yourself into one or because consensus

says a recession is happening, maybe it does not. does the technical recession worry you at all? or you're more interested in the fundamentals in the market right now? >> we did have a technical recession in q1 and q2 of 2022, and i think any pain that people are worried about right now with a 25% peak to trough correction in the s&p last year, a 35% peak to trough in the nasdaq correction, that priced in a lot of pain for this year. so as we look out to 2024, s&p earnings estimates, cheryl, are $250 which means we're only trading at 16.5 times forward earnings right now, and there's a lot to do. there are a lot of things, high quality businesses that got beat down that are still values at this level. cheryl: there are some positives we got this week, and we had a lot of econ data. initial jobless claims, still at 200,000. i think it's 190,000 is the 4-day moving average, but core retail sales for january, that came in strong. the home builder sentiment survey, that actually rose 7 points, and you also have the

small business optimism index which actually rose which, to me, flies in the face of those that are saying that we're going into a downturn, run for the hill, sell your stocks, go into bonds. you seem to be agreeing with that line of thinking as well. >> yeah. you saw the jobs report, cheryl, you saw the retail sales, you saw the new autos many january. people are moving on, and the interesting thing is the concern is, oh, my goodness if the economy's so strong, the fed is going to keep at it. well, the issue is the economy's handling it pretty well, is so even if we do another 25 basis points or maybe even two, the market is handling it, the economy's handling it, and it's going to look forward to those 2024 earnings moving forward. cheryl: the bears will tell you that inflation and the inflation story -- we had cpi and ppi this week -- that is why the fed is going to continue to not just raise rates, but really through the end of the year. in fact, a bear would tell you right now if they were sitting here, and i'm not one but i'll

repeat what their sentiment is, that we're going to see rate hikes to the end of the year and that, overall, that means that this market is not going to recover until 2024 because of the aggressiveness of the fed. >> i've got one better for you. from 1995-1999 the fed funds rate was over 6.5%, and people said tech could not perform with a high fed funds rate. look what happened, we had the biggest bull market run in tech at a 6.5% fed funds rate from 1995-1999. the interesting thing is those sectors that everyone told you not to be in last fall, tech, communications services, consumer discretionary, those are the top three performers this year, and we like them moving forward. there's a lot of -- cheryl. cheryl: there's been a lot of pressure on tech. they say it's all about value and not to growth. and i actually want to bring in fitzgerald group principal keith fitzgerald. keith, thanks for joining in the conversation. we're talking about the fed and the economy.

now let's get into sectors because there's a lot of bulls out there that say we should be invested in tech. tom is one of them. is that a sector that you're looking at right now? >> absolutely. i couldn't be more strongly in agreement with that. the laggards become the leaders when people least expect it, especially under conditions like we're facing at the present. cheryl:s and, keith, overall, i mean, i know that there are -- you've got some picks. you also have a very interesting take, i think, on whether or not we should be investing in china right now. some say we should be avoiding china because of obvious, whether it's a spy craft balloon in the air or because of the ccp spying on americans, but others say that's where the growth and the opportunity financially's going to be. what do you say to someone who wants to invest in china? >> i say you need to think about two things. the dragon is coming to kinner -- dinner on tuesday. do you want to be at the table or on the menu? you can invests in china directly which right now is a dicey proposition, or you can invest in the world's best

companies because of china. i think china is like throwing a rock in the pond, you need to look at the ripple, not the rock. cheryl: all right. keith, obviously, if we are going to move money into the u.s. market, give me one sector you like, and then we'll run. >> defense stocks. very complicated place in the world today, long way to go, big dividends for most of them. cheryl: a lockheed martin type of story. >> that is the company at top of the food chain, as far as i'm concerned. cheryl: you also like mickey d's, you gotta lo the french fry. >> i love mcdonald's. [laughter] it's a tech company that happens to make hamburgers. sales are going up, revenue going up, the errors are going down, automation is coming in. it's a fabulous company. again, long way to run. people don't see it coming, but it's going to pay off. cheryl: a tech the company that makes hamburgers. not sure we can go any further. good to see you, keith fitzgerald, or tom hayes.

thanks, guys. we are moving on, the news not getting any better for embattled railroad norfolk southern. another one of its trains carrying hazardous materials crashed outside of detroit on thursday. the area not a hazmat situation, no injuries luckily have been reported. but this latest crash happening as criticism continues to pile on a week after an nsc train full of toxic chemicals wrecked and ignited a massive fire no, sir forcing thousands to evacuate from their homes in east palestine, ohio. that wreaked havoc on residents, animals, the water supply. grady trimble is on capitol hill with more on how the government is handling this railway disaster. hey, grady. >> reporter: hi, cheryl. the white house is sending teams from a number of agencies to east palestine, the cdc, the hhs. the epa has been there for some time now, but republican lawmakers say the biden administration needs to do more. governor mike dewine's office tells us fema denied his request

for aid because there's no property damage at the disaster site like there would be after a hurricane or a tornado or some other natural disaster. senator marco rubio going so far as to call for transportation secretary pete buttigieg to step down. buttigieg has yet to visit the community impacted by the derailment. for his part, buttigieg with on thursday spoke about the derailment on camera for the first time. >> look, rail safety is something that has evolve ised a lot over the years, but there's clearly more that needs to be done because while this horrible situation has gotten a particularly high amount of attention, there are roughly 1,000 cases a year of a train derailing. >> reporter: on the topic of safety, republican senator j.d. vance in a letter with senator marco rubio is questioning whether rail companies are operating too many cars with too few employees. >> we have valued efficiency

over resiliency, and those things are in conflict. these trains have been made longer than ever because they want to run less times with longer payloads, and the result is you're going to have accidents if it's not carefully reviewed. >> reporter: we're told the ntsb is holding a bipartisan briefing with members of the house transportation committee. cheryl? cheryl: all right. grady trimble live for us from washington this afternoon, grady, thank you very much. we've got a lot more coming up. apple might be immune to the mass layoffs that are sweeping silicon valley. we're going apple picking with one of the top analysts of the tech titan with more on potential layoffs and the shift of iphone production out of china. and take a look at the big board. it's been one of those days at the office. again we are up 12 the 5 right now. in fact, we hit a new session high of 130 just a few moments ago. we'll see how the markets close out on this friday. "claman countdown" coming right back. ♪ ♪

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cheryl: well, apple ceo tim cook said that layoffs were a last resort in the company's first quarter earnings call earlier this month. now there are reports swirling9 that the iphone maker is cutting ties with hundreds of contractors in an effort to cut costs. this comes as top i iphone producer foxconn has expanded its footprint in vietnam in an effort to diversify production away from from china. zero covid policies, protests interrupting production during apple's crucial holiday quarter there. so what does 2023 look like for the tech titan? joining me now in a fox business exclusive, one of the top apple

analysts, horace da dtadu. >> thank you very much for having me. cheryl: one of the big concerns when apple had the sect quarter miss was certainly the production issues overseas. now they're eyeing, at least foxconn is, vietnam. overall, the supply chain for apple, is it healthy right now? because they depend financially on getting us our new smart watch and apple tv and iphone. >> well, you know, the miracle of apple's production system is that they're able to at the same time scale production very quickly to hit a window which is, you know, typically around the holidays, but there's other smaller windows during the year. you've got to hit it with a huge number of products and, you know, in several categories. the other thing is that they're doing it with a hybrid model where they don't own the production plans, but they are -- plants, but they are able

to effectively operate them and provide the capital and equipment necessary. it's a very interesting production system. not much is known about it. i'm sure that textbooks will get written on this as they were for the ford production system back in the day. but you're right, the biggest problem they have right now is concentration in china. they're trying to diversify. that's the next big leap forward for them. cheryl: do you have any idea what sales were like in the current quarter? >> well, again, they cautioned us it was a very kind of obtuse conversation about what's going to happen next quarter. i think we're looking at a down quarter year on year about 5%, that's the guidance right now. cheryl: now, there's some other news happening with apple, a lot of news always, but this virtual reality headset that the company's been working on for years, pushed back. it looks like we could finally see it this year at the worldwide

developers conference, that's going to be in june. a, do you think we're going to see it finally and, b, do you think they'd be able to make that dead ryan? >> well, they've been at it seven years. as you pointed out, it's been a long wait. we don't know whether this was actually driven by, you know, some technical issues, but their developer event is the place to launch. it's going to be the probably more geared towards develop canners wanting to get those early units in their hands, getting them to begin software development for this platform. and it is a platform. st not just like, you know, a viewing device. it's going to be the a computing device. it's going to have its own user interface, and it's going to be very, very novel. so i think developers have to get used to it. i do believe and i have believed for a long time that it's, you know, the first year's going to be about developers, and so we don't expect a lot of units shipping, maybe not even a million units. but that would be the launch,

you know, almost protoif type product. prototype product. cheryl: one of the things about the apple watch, and this is a little bit in the weeds,es but is this issue with the live core. this is a wearable electrocardiogram patent that initially they shared with apple so that people wearing apple -- we know it's saved lives. there's multiple reports that apple watches have saved lives because of the sensor in the apple watch. but now live corps says they've been cut out of the production process, cut away from apple, basically. they're suing. they've gone to the biden administration. where is this going to land? do you think this could be a big problem for apple if a decision does not go their way? >> obviously, there's a lot of potential conflict with intellectual properties across the product lines. we've seen disputes over the years. i'm not sure this is going to be a big impact. i think it can be settled out of court in the worst case.

i think somebody's gotten, felt they got a bad deal, but, you know, there's -- they've gotten sued by samsung back in the years and years ago, they got -- they were in ip suits with qualcomm for years. i'm not very worried about this one. cheryl: what about the foldable phone? seeking -- speaking of samsung, because apple reportedly has been working and has been for a long time, on a foldable phone. is that a reality? >> well, you know, i'm not a big fan of that idea because although it might be attractive to some people, the mechanical aspects, you know, apple's moved away from moving parts. in other words, think about even you used to have a button to press for your, you know, touch id. that's gone. it's face id only. they want to get rid of the buttons that even tell the volume up and down and be touch only because anytime you add mechanical complexity, the device ends up, you know, having fault in some way, in some, you

know, it's going to fall apart am -- at some point. i'm not a fan of the fold, but it might be something they might consider, and i think they're watching closely what the others are doing, samsung in particular. but as a category, you know, extension, i i think it's a little gimmicky. it's just one of those things that i could be wrong about, like flip phones might become next big thing, but it's not because an engineer would like it more. [laughter] cheryl: i thought flip phones were so yesterday and made us all look old if we still liked or had them. >> i used to work at -- yeah. i used to work at nokia, we thought flip phones were a dumb idea because they had this, you know, monoblock phone -- [laughter] and that never broke. but somehow people really loved the flip phones for a while. cheryl: everybody likes something. there's always something out there for all of us. horace dediu, it's good to see you. thank you so much for all the

commentary, appreciate it. >> thank you. cheryl: all right. well, coming up next, boat fans swarming the sunshine state today as one of the world's largest boat shows drops anchor. madison alworth live at the miami boat hope is with a look at some of the hottest water craft as we look at these beautiful live pictures of what looks like a beautiful day in miami. boating season is beginning, we're going to take you there live. and if you're looking for more than a boat, we're also helping people find their american dream home. it's part of fbn prime's real estate block. be sure to watch my show every wednesday night right here on fox business. all right, let's take a look at the markets as we go to break. dow the still in the green -- dow is still in the green as we move towards 4 p.m. eastern time. nasdaq is at 85. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ dad, we got this.

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the sports betting company reporting a loss of 53 cents a share, but that beat analyst estimates, and that was much lower than the same period last year. ceo jason robbins says they are working to, quote, accomplish more with the same resources. shares of draftkings up more than 13%. checking out other sport bet betting stocks, penn entertain the testimony has completed its acquisition of bar tool sports. back in 20 the 20 the they took a 36% stake in bar stool and have now acquired the remaining shares for $388 million. penn national slightly lower today. amc networks shooting higher after announcing a fourth quarter profit that was more than double what analysts expected. the global entertainment company adding 700,000 new streaming subscribers in the fourth quarter bringing its yearly total to 11.8 million. the company's streaming services include amc+, acorn tv and

shutter. doordash sinking right now after rising more than 5% earlier today. the online food ordering company announcing fourth quarter revenue that topped analyst estimates. the san francisco company reported a wider than expected net loss for the forty quarter -- for the quarter in general which drove that stock lower. the company did say it plans to buy back up to about 750 to million shares. still, doordash is down about 8%. and nothing runs like a deere. okay, not the cute kind. they're fast though. shares of john deere surging higher thanks to strong demand. the farm equipment maker raising its profit forecast for the year after seeing an increase in spending from its construction customers. deere expects sales in its agricultural machinery business to rise about 20%, excuse me, for fiscal 2023. excuse me. they reported first quarter earnings that were higher than analyst expectations. all right. a little water, let's go to -- all kinds of water and bring in

madison alworth live at the boat show, miami's international boat show. hey, madison. >> reporter: hey, cheryl. yes, we're at the world's biggest boat show. and more and more space here is being taken up by electric boats. so we got to check out some yesterday, you should be seeing some video of that. but we wanted to jump on one of those electric vote boats for you to show you what this is all about. we're going to pan to the engine. it's 100% electric, it look like a normal engine but all powered by electricity. there is no exhaust coming out of this thing, it is so quiet. and, obviously, without any exhaust there is also no smell. i'm on the back of the boat, and i'm breathing easy. so really fascinating to be on it, and it is, hopefully, a growing sector for those that are in the space like the boat that's being operated here. they face a lot of the same headwinds we see in auto the, right? so range. we're going really slow, almost

idle speed. at this speed you could go all day on this boat, like 20 hours. when you punch it up, that's when the time starts to cut back. and what we're hearing from distributers of electric vehicles, electric boats is that they're facing the same headwinds in terms of fear about range that we see in the auto industry. take a listen. >> if we could just get people to understand the electrification of boats. we've dubbed the term, i think, from a marketing objective or a marketing obstacle, it's called rangitis. people had it with cars, and now they have it with boats. >> reporter: so rangitis but, you know, if you're doing things like this, going slow, they say you can do it all day. another thing is the charge, right? so a lot of these docks do have electricity, but if you want a fast charge, that is still lacking. we also spoke to aqua super power, they're a charging station out here in the u.s. and in europe. so far they have one of their superchargers in the u.s., so they're working hard to get more

online, but the reality is theyal face some obstacles making that a reality. >> obviously, grids need to get smarter and, obviously, that's above my pay raid in concern grade -- grade in terms of who's keeling with the -- i'd be, like, hey, electric boats are coming. and they're like, there are electric boats? now they're familiar with them, and they're really interested in it. >> reporter: okay. so a whole new world when it comes to electric and boating. the world we live in right now is a bit rainy, which you've probably been noticing at home, but the last thing i want to get to before i send it back to to you is the price. 90% of the boats in the u.s. are 26 foot and below, that's what people are purchasing. a 26-foot electric boat goes for around $300,000. if you bought that in the gas model, you can get onto one of those boats at 70,000 all the way up to 400,000. so it is a premium especially on the, you know, retail for the everyday boater. but they hope they make it up in

gas, and they hope that down the road you get more options. so, i mean, for me sitting here i'm breathing easy, riding easy, a little bet -- wet, but that has nothing to do with the ev vehicle. [laughter] cheryl: cheryl i'm hoping you got a little warm weather down there in miami as you've been reporting there, madison. >> reporter: oh, yeah, it's been beautiful. honestly, this just rolled in about 30 minutes ago, which is classic florida. don't worry about me, i've been even joying myself down here in miami, i'll tell you that much. [laughter] cheryl: you're going to be okay. madison alworth, you're going have a great time, miami boat show is a great time. thank you, mad madison. from boats to the planes. as the aviation industry struggles with post-pandemic growing pains, one new carrier is riding a tailwind to expansion. breeze airways founder david neeleman is here to tell us where his planes are heading next. and taking a look at the big board, still holding on to gains. the dow is up by 96.

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cheryl: breaking news coming out of new york city's john f. kennedy airport. this was the scene at jfk terminal one yesterday. travelers standed, looking for answers -- stranded. unfortunately, today not much as changed, it's going to remain closed until the port authority fixes the electrical problems which started on thursday night. the terminal serves about 8.5% of the airport's gates, more than a dozen international airlines use that terminal. despite electrical outages, near misses and what seems to be a never ending flight mare for travelers, one airline is gaining popularity and actually increasing its routes. breeze airways has had a busy few weeks, started flying 15 new

routes over the the past two weeks and has announced 22 new routes on tsa. david neeleman is the cofounder of breeze air and, of course, was the founder of jetblue and many more airlines. david, welcome back to the show. >> thank you for having me, cheryl. cheryl: i want to start with the big news and, obviously, that's what's happening with the faa. we had that huge ground stop that paralyzed the system. we've never seen that happen since 9/11. we also had the christmas meltdown that really engulfed southwest airlines. and then you have news of a united airlines flight that got within 800 feet of the ocean. the industry overall has had one piece of bad news after the other. give us the state of play right now. >> you know, it's, you know, it's still kind of covid recovery, and you hate saying that because, you know, covid's really in the rearview mirror. but it's the delivery of aircraft, you know, coming from, you know, our suppliers. you know, we've got, you know, delays coming on some of our new airplanes as well. and so, you know, it's just,

it's amazing that slowdowns and shutdowns are still being felt, you know, a couple years afterwards. but, you know, it's -- you do the best you can, you make it through. you know, we're doing good. we've got a lot of pilots being trained. we have a lot of new planes coming on, and we're launching a lot of new routes, really exciting routes. i'm here in california where we launched the first ever nonstop from orlando to orange county airport, sna, in california. so, you know, we launched a bunch of other new routes. you know, there used to be between cincinnati and san francisco four flights a day, and there aren't any anymore, so we just launched that flight. so, you know, there's great opportunities. cheryl: yeah, well, to be clear, you've become a legend in the airline industry. from launching morris air which southwest airlines ended up buying and, of course to jutte blue, now to breeze airways --

jetblue. i'm curious if looking at that route network that we just showed our viewers on the map if there's an opportunity for you to go after some of these routes that maybe southwest customers either they are frustrated with southwest airlines or maybe they're looking for better service, something new. i mean, you're to going into smaller cities which is something southwest had always done, now you're doing that that. what is the strategy here to grab market share? >> well, you know, cheryl, southwest airlines is a really formidable competitor, and they're a great airline, you know? as you know, i worked there for a short period of time and was very, herb was a really good friend of mine. i have the utmost respect for them. you know, apart from their routes there are just so many other routes, you know? in 2010 there were almost a million regional flights a year. and now that number's been cut about in half. so we've lost about 500,000 regional flights in this country. the big airlines have picked up about, you know, just under

100,000 flights of that, but there's still so many opportunities in cities like canton/akron and huntsville, alabama, and cities that southwest doesn't even serve that we can -- san bernardino. we launched the first san bernardino/vegas flight yesterday. there's just lots and lots of opportunities. 9 we don't need to go after southwest -- [laughter] there's plenty of stuff where -- about 95% of our routes, we have 1434 routes, you know, we -- 143, 21 states, 35 cities, about 90-95% of those routes we have no nonstop competition. cheryl: well, there's a reason that travel and leisure voted you the second best domestic airline out there, i'm assuming. that was last year. let me ask you about this, the pilot shortage. this is something that the entire industry is going to have to grapple with likely for years. how successful have you been recently to get pilots into training and to get them graduated, to get them in the skies? is that still a challenge for you? >> a little bit.

and a lot of it has to do with resources on the faa side, you know? we can -- you know, we've created a great culture. i have a call with our pilots every week where they all get on, we talk about, you know, opportunities and things that we're doing and, you know, transparency. it's a great time for us to communicate. so it's all about attracting and retention. you have to keep your pilots as well. so that's something we're working really hard on. we have our own training center with our own similar simulators can be simulators, our own instructors, and we're going to be getting more authorization from the faa to be doing a lot of the stuff that they're doing today in the coming days. it's going good. we've got over 300 pilots, we have pilots in class and pilots in training, and so, you know, we're marrying up the rivals of the airplanes with our pilots and retain thing them -- retaining them and hopefully creating a good environment for them to stay and work and that they can have a great future with us. cheryl: well, as somebody, as you know, was a flight attendant

for southwest airlines in her 20 thes, i know having that relationship between management and your front-line workers can really create a culture as it did at jetblue that i think passengers will see. so we're going to definitely be watching your airline. david, it's great to see you, as always. please come back to "the claman countdown." >> great. thank you, cheryl. cheryl: all right. well, we have a lot more coming up. the brothers grimm have nothing on jeffrey epstein. the late sex offender and financier allegedly discussing snow white and the beauty and the beast with the former barclays ceo. the lawsuit filed against the investment bank. charlie breaks it, coming up next. take a look at the big board, we are still off the session lows for the dow. we were up 130, we're up 93 right now. "claman countdown" will come right back. ♪ ♪

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a lot about its relationship with jeffrey epstein. there's new court documents on file, you can read all about it, it's in all the press, all the papers. following that, i've been able to confirm some interesting details about the relationship between jeffrey epstein and jpmorgan. it lasted between, i would say, 2009, 2008 to 2013. it lasted right after he was a, he was released from jail the first time. i believe that was in 2009. he was convicted for having sex with underage girls. he spent 10 months in jail, most of it on work release, just so you know. it was a very is light sentence. and when he got out of jail, he basically tried to resume his life. as part of that, he was getting back into the business of being a high-end wealth manager. that's what jeffrey epstein was. he would manage your money, trade it for you, he did everything, handled charitable stuff.

he was actually good at his job, just so you know, based on what i've heard. but what's interesting about this is the alarm bells that went off inside jp -- jpmorgan at the time. sources are telling the fox business network that a senior wealth management adviser advised, okay, advised his bosses not to do business, to discontinue -- cheryl: and the bosses at the time were -- >> well, i mean, it concern i don't want to lay it on anybody because i don't know the exact chain of command. cheryl: yeah. >> wealth management handled his accounts. cheryl: okay. >> he used that platform to basically do his trading, to do other things. his entire business of wealth management was done largely through the jpmorgan brokerage system, and before that it was bear stearns, you should know. you should also know that jpmorgan took over bear stearns during the financial crisis, so that's probably how that relationship started. but in any event, they demure pd. they decided not to. i've been asking people inside the bank why. we should point out i ran this

all by the bank, they had no comment. here's what i understand their rationale was. number one, it wasn't necessarily their job, this is the way they looked at it in the time in 2009, 2010. it wasn't necessarily their job to police the behavior of clients. their job mainly was to focus on money laundering, okay? so if a guy goes to the jail, comes out like he did, that client is -- shouldn't be necessarily barred from doing business. that's essentially what they believed at the time. what they said at the time. some would say rationalized at the time. also they were worried about losing epstein's business and other business he brought to the firm. there's no doubt that he was a significant client, and he brought others to the firm. okay. so put all that together, and you say, okay, why did they bounce him in 20 the 13 -- 20 the 13. they would say there was new information that came to light, and they grew nervous and then he ended his relationship with

jpmorgan. i believe he took his business at that point to deutsche bank. we should point out that that lasted until, essentially, until he was thrown out of deutsche bank right before he was arrested on, you know, significant charges and killed himself in his jail cell. cheryl: yeah. >> we should also point out, i was one of the last people that spoke with jeffrey -- cheryl: i know. >> you can go to foxbusiness.com, pull up the stories. there's a lot of them. he had a lot of sources on wall street. one of his friends was a guy named jess staley at jpmorgan, you know, there's a lot of talk about him. you'll see him -- cheryl: this is the beauty and the beast reference i think we made in the tease about the conversations -- >> we should point out that jess' attorney has no comment. again, i would just say this, okay, and i'm not defending the behavior at all, quite the contrary. jeffrey epstein, when he got out

of jail -- i believe that's 2009, 2010, check the date -- when he came out, he was looked upon differently than right before he killed himself, and i believe that was 2018, 2019. the new information from the plaintiffs' lawyers can't come out. he even was the subject of a fairly i wouldn't say laudatory, but positive story in the "new york times." about how he, quote-unquote, screwed up. i'm just telling you that this may sound like a rationalization on these people's part, the people that that continued to do business like leon black, people like jess staley, jpmorgan. but what they would say is he was looked upon as a guy that screwed up, and, you know, paid his price and was moving on. and the level of charges, you know, the volume that came out later of this sort of the disgusting behavior was not known to them, okay?

cheryl: and i completely believe that. completely believe that. >> so they all gave him a pass, and they continued their friendship. now, we should point out, another thing we should point out is that he -- you're more likely maybe to look the other way on all this stuff when the guy's rich and bringing you a lot of business. cheryl: yeah. the cynic in me believes that too. >> jpmorgan had no comment, i ran this all by them so it's a solid story. cheryl: good to see you, sir. we've got about three and a half minutes to go until the closing bell, and if the dow hits 172, it's positive for the week. like, i'm not saying that i can, you know, this is going to happen in three minutes, but i don't know. it could. anyway, as you can see here are the markets for the week. right now the nasdaq is in the green, s&p and the dow are not. but the dow is, at this point it's down for the third straight week. we'll see how these numbers crunch out, but 172 points is the gain to watch on the dow. if we can hit it, different story. all right, the united states

has finished efforts to recover the remnants of the large balloon that was shot down off the coast of south carolina. officials say analysis so far reinforces the conclusion that it was used by the chinese to spy. all of this drama in american air space certainly bringing defense stocks to the forefront, and our closer has an etf that covers all of those bases. chief investment officer robert schein joins us now. hi, robert, let's talk about this etf that you like because obviously defense, in particular this week, has been in the spotlight with all the news. >> so the etf that we like, the invesco aerospace and defense, it gives you a broad-based approach to diversifying into the aerospace and defense sector, over 50 names. and if you just look at any of the headlines we've seen over the last week, week and a half or even year with the war in ukraine to balloons everywhere, you know, most investors don't have exposure to defense in their portfolios, and this is a great way of adding that to your

portfolio while watching the headlines and sort of at least plague along and putting -- playing along and putting some defensive positioning in your portfolio. cheryl: you also like freeport-mcmoran. that's the copper play that you like. i wanted to get to that one as well. and then you've got exxonmobil as well. talk to me about those two. >> so with freeport, if you look at the electrification of everything globally, you just had a segment on a few minutes ago about ev boats. and so copper'ses in everything. -- copper's in everything. the management's disciplined and focus ifed, and you've got global winds behind it to support copper for quite some time. so if you want to play that, freeport-mcmoran is the way to do that as well as exxon. china's reopening, and so they're going to support even though oil's down today, long term oil we believe is going to continue to rise. one of the most profitable companies in the united states, they just announced, exxon just announced a $35 billion buyback through now and 2024.

that'll support the stock. is so thematically, most people don't own a lot of defense or industrials. this is a way to add trim to your portfolio and rebalance and take advantage of when markets are up to add to sectors that you most likely don't have. cheryl: well, exxonmobil's profits in that earnings report in particular was a big jaw-dropper. i actually broke that news on our morning show, and it was something else to watch that stock fly. thank you very much, robert. it's good to see you. [cheers and applause] we're not going to make that 172, it looks like. we are ending the week with the dow losing some steam, but the nasdaq and the s&p actually in the red. the dow not making that 172, but that's it. now to "kudlow." hello, everyone and welcome to special edition of kudlow, i am david as an and for very k