in 1892 the state's unofficial nickname was the sunshine state. we're talking arizona now. they never actually made it official. in 1970 florida's state legislature adopted the nickname by legal resolution making it officially theirs. how about that? a nickname grab. >> impressive. stuart: pretty good. that's florida. we like them, we like them. thank you, ash. see you again tomorrow. quick check of the markets. i see green up and down. not as much green we had before. don't forget to send in the "friday feedback." do it anyway. email us, critiques, comments anything you like. a little hate mail wouldn't hurt. varney viewsers @fox.com. that's it for us at "varney & company" today. "coast to coast" starts in three, two, one. neil: now the anger is leaking out. amid reports that the u.s. energy department says that

covid probably and they stress probably leaked from a wuhan lab in china. china is saying now what is leaking out is a smear campaign orchestrated by the united states. welcome, everybody, i'm neil cavuto. what to make of these revelations and how they add to already tense relationship between ourselves and the chinese. for that we got the latest from capitol hill and our grady trimble. grade did i, how is this going down there? >> reporter: neil, for some it is an eye told you so moment here on the hill but for a while, at least from the start of the pandemic for a year or two that lab leak theory deemed by critics as fringe conspiracy theory. now it is the leading explanation for origins of covid at least according to the department of energy in that "wall street journal" report which cite ad classified government report. the energy department says it made its judgment with low confidence but it does join the fbi which had moderate

confidence determining coronavirus spread via a lab mishap. several other government ages less clear. they still think it spread and started naturally while others just don't know. >> if we gain any further insight or information we will share it with congress and we will share it with the american people but right now there is not a definitive answer that has emerged from the intelligence community on this question. >> reporter: a representative for the chinese communist party had this to say about that doe report, certain parties should stop rehashing the lab leak narrative, stop smearing china, and stop politicizing origin tracing. do with that what you will. it is also worth noting that social media companies for sometime censored posts and accounts if they entertain the lab leak theory which many republican lawmakers have for some time, neil. for them this is sort of a vindication they might have been right all along how covid

started but we should say they are still digging into that especially with house hearings that started earlier this month. neil: i'm sure we'll see plenty of hearings after that. grady, thank you very, very much. i want to pick dr. marty makary's brain on all of this, johns hopkins university professor, public health, fox news contributor and the reason why i like having the doctor on, he is sick of my complimenting minimum, he is a modest guy, i think he should get complicated, the price we pay, what broke the american health care system how to fix it goes back to 2019 before all of this hit the fan. was earl littlely prescient. it goes back further for the doctor. if you think back in 2012, he was writing about hospitals, transparency, revolutionizing health care. if some of the transparency tips had been passed along we might not be in this whole pickle today. doctor, good to see you again. what do you make of these revelations?

>> good to see you. first of all amazing how we never seen apology for those who got canceled this same thing, what is considered the mainstream, government position on the wuhan lab leak. we shockingly still have dr. collins, dr. fauci still saying they think it probably was not from the lab. dr. collins was very clear about that. by the way this is not the first lab leak that resulted in a virus. not the first lab leak from china resulting in an epidemic. so history is simply proving that there is a track record here. that we shouldn't be doing gain of function research. we should being honest about lab leaks. some way why are we talking about this? there is no pointing about the lab leak. this is the biggest liability case in the history of the world. think about all the energy spent right now on the two murders of the murdaugh family in south carolina relative to the amount of time we spend on this wuhan lab leak. neil: it is a very good point.

i'm just wondering though, explain what a lab leak would have looked like if it accidentally, you assume no one deliberately did this, this indeed how it all started even among those at the department under some arguing how likely it occurred, leaving that aside, i'm wondering how that get gets out of control, how is it created, gets started in a lab and all of sudden gets out of control? >> i think for any physician who worked in a laboratory with pathogens it is entirely plausible, and very obvious what happened here. i personally don't think there was intentionality or bioterrorism plan as part of this but viruses do leak out of labs. it is very easy to take a virus home, to get infected in the lab, to drop a container to inhale something even though the hood has negative pressure in it and all of us that worked in a lab know that lab accidents

happen. in fact they're ubiquitous. lab experiments run overnight at 2:00 in the morning, sometimes not by highly experienced personnel. so what happened was clearly they were trying to humanize the virus, that is get this coronavirus to infect human mamalia in cells with the intent of understanding it better to potentially develop a vaccine if it were to become a naturally occurring virus and in that process somebody inhaled it and showed up to a hospital about five miles away and so that is pretty much all you need to know. that one of the giant virus labs is five miles away from the hospital where the epicenter occurred. neil: now we partially funded some of that research and, as you indicated this has gone on for a while. the purpose of it is to understand something that could get to be out of control. this itself got out of control. i'm just wondering, do you find

any wisdom at all to this sort of activity it? >> well, dr. collins and dr. fauci actively promoted gain of function research in a "washington post" op-ed before the covid pandemic, in university lectures and i don't think they're bad people. i think it was just the fact that they come from a different era. they come from a time period when viruses took months or years to study, to identify the genetic sequence, gene sequencing took forever in the past. as a matter of fact that was dr. colins' entire career research was sequencing the human genome. it took nearly a decade. the idea in the past among these dinosaur scientists you have to create the new potential dangerous strain in order to study it. newer scientists, younger scientists say look, you can sequence any virus in 20 minutes

with modern day sequencing technology. don't try to create a virus in a lab to predict what will be the next epidemic. simply wait for it to occur, then sequence. that natural bias they had resulted them violating the rules about moratorium on gain of function research, developing workarounds and all of it nicely characterized in a "washington post" article, titled, science in the shadows. how fauci and collins did workarounds to change the definition of gain of function research continue to fund it despite obama moratorium on gain of function research. neil: could we still have something of that magnitude, an epidemic of that magnitude without gain of function? in other words, this was likened to the plague. could you still see that happening? because a lot of americans say already, if they stopped gain of function research we don't have to worry about this going forward, is that true? >> i, no, i don't think it is

true. i think it is likely we're going to see a pandemic again in our lifetime. think about it, the covid-19 had ultimate case fatality rate of .2 of 1%. that is highly contagious, everyone got it, imagine a virus with mortality rate of 20%, 30%, those viruses exist, resulted in outbreaks. it is not nearly as contagious as covid-19 was. it is entirely plausible. not to be a gloom and doom person but look at our lifetime, pan dems from polio to, h 1. , sars, covid-19, merz. there are so many pandemics almost every few years there is some epidemic in the country with a potential for it to be more widespread. which is why we have to fund the right kind of research. neil: dr. makary, we'll see what happens. thank you, sir, very, very much.

dr. marty makary on all of that. i want to switch to ohio right now, in east palestine. they had stopped the transportation of some of that contaminant waste and the like from the train derailment because a lot of communities was getting frustrated where that was being sent and they don't want it sent to them. i don't know where things stand now. i know mike tobin does. he is in east palestine with more. mike. >> reporter: neil, the cleanup is moving again here in east palestine after being halted what you were alluding to, a communication breakdown. 70 tons of contaminated soil in trucks sent back here to east palestine and 102,000 gallons of waters was parked here. when people in east texas said found out the hazardous material was sent to their states, they didn't want it. >> the epa botched it from the beginning, from the derailment, to the burning of the material. >> now they're quietly going to bring that toxic material to

michigan and dump it in our backyards, possibly put our families in danger? and we want answers. >> reporter: 210 tons of contaminated soil had already been shipped to a hazardous waste disposal facility in wayne county, michigan. half a million gallons of water was shipped to harris county, texas. officials said no one told them the has does waste was coming, no one told them the routs, no one told them the risks. >> one thing i want to share i think the public should know, i learned about this not from a regulatory agency, not from the country, but from a member of the press and that is unacceptable. >> reporter: so the solution is now they will ship all of the contaminated material from here to a couple of hazardous waste facilities in ohio. there is pa deep injection well in v were. ohio where water goes to, and

incyturia tore in east liverpool half an hour from here where they take the contaminated soil. neil? neil: mike tobin in east palestine with more on that. let's go to republican pennsylvania congressman scott perry, what he makes of all of this. congressman, they paused this transportation of a lot of this hazardous waste. now they have safe facilities they're told where it is being sent. are you convinced they're doing it correctly? >> well, look, i think your last couple stories should convince every american we need to be skeptical of our government and ask the questions and make sure everything is out in the open because they will pull the wool over our eyes every single time they get an opportunity. i'm not saying they're doing anything incorrectly now or unsafe now, but clearly, neil, what happened with east palestine, vis-a-vis the government, the government response, government information has been a horrific failure at every single level from the department of transportation to,

to environmental control, any of that stuff. just information and care for these people in east palestine not to mention the story before on origins of covid-19. you got to ask yourself, not only first of all is every single person including myself who wrote an editorial early on because all the public information, the public facing information pointed to the wuhan lab, who were vilified by democrats and the left in general are now vindicated but you have to ask yourself why in the world is the department of energy telling us this? don't they have other issues, the task we're closing refineries and can't buy affordable fuel? where is the cdc? where is the world health organization? if the department of energy can figure this out, where are the other agencies that actually

focus on this. neil: back to the ohio thing, if you can, you said there could be same sort of not intentional but disinformation campaign going on. we do know right now that the epa has apparently been put in charge of this working very closely with norfolk southern to make sure they pay up and clean up, i get that. the transportation department you would think would be overseeing this as well because this is a rail concern after all and you know trains are under their purview as well is not. what do you make of that? >> look, it's just either sheer incompetence or disregard for the american people and quite honestly unfortunately what i think all-americans have seen, are seeing, will continue to see under this administration, is a different priority. they prioritize a different woke, weaponized agenda on the american people to control them as opposed to just simply doing their job. the national traffic safety board was there. they were there the day after the incident but they don't fall

under the transportation secretary any longer. where has that guy been? where is is the eap? they show up in your backyard to try to burn your leaves in the fall but we have horrific wreck with toxic chemicals, burning them off in peoples backyards and. epa can't be found. it is absurd. people pay a huge amount of taxes every year for the behemoth government organizations essentially they're supposed to be there when you need them. when you do need them they can't be found and they can't even respond. neil: there is lot of overlap, fingerpointing, and that continues now. we'll watch it closely. congressman perry, great to see you. thank you very much. >> great to see you, neil, thank you very much. neil: same here. corner of wall and broad we have a rally going. it is not like earlier today when the dow was up more than 300 points. we got a lot of strong economic news that shows, well, things are going along well and taking

that with the prospect of aggressive federal reserve but, but, some of that data is off the charts. it's a delicate balance. it always is. we'll see how it goes after this. ♪.

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♪. with. neil: all right. looks like twitter is going to lay off another 200 workers. in case you're counting that is going to bring the headcount there to just under 2000. i believe when elon musk formally took over the social media concern it had about 7500 workers. so what to make of what's going on there, a read of technology and markets in general, lou basenes public ventures president, chief market strategist. lou, good to see you again. what do you make of this news? >> if we ever needed a better example about tech's overexpansion. twitter has cut over the 70% of the workforce since elon musk has taken over. it is still functioning just fine. it makes you wonder what all the employees were. if you look at tech space,

amazon hired 600,000 employees during the pandemic. google, amazon, on a hiring spree. elon musk countering balance, like old jack welch, hire slowly, fire fast, fire a lot. i think what he needs to do to turn twitter around. i wish the stock was publicly-traded again as much cheaper valuation. these moves would be applauded in the public markets. neil: another thing, you look at percentages,0% from those highs have been laid off and we have seen layoffs in the tech sector have been rampant but relatively small. can you imagine if they got anything approaching that magnitude? does that indicate other tech companies will look at each other, say, you know, some of our layoffs have been relatively tame? >> yeah. i think you're hitting the nail on the head, neil. look across the board, usually about five to 10% of the workforce has been laid off in tech. for me that is prudent management as we come into a

tougher cycle for tech, higher interest rate environment. i want to see them doing those things. microsoft laying off 10 to 12,000 employees. those are good things from shareholder basis. not if the you're the employee being laid off but those are the prudent financial moves you want to see companies making in the financial market here. neil: we're looking at markets attempting a comeback today, after a sour week, one of the worst weeks for the markets going back to last fall. they're having a devil of a time gaining any traction here. how do you look at things? >> i mean, interest rates are going to be the tail that wags this market for the inevitable future. last time i was on talking about potential for the fed to keep hiking rates. some pundits saying one or two more hikes. after friday's hot inflation data, i think odds of a 50 basis-point hike at next meeting gotten a lot higher. almost nonexistent, futures trading, probabilities, there is at least 30% chance of that happening. until the fed stops hiking, you

go bottoms-up, not top down. indexes will be really volatile. pfizer sending a message to a place look in the market with a deal buying sea gen, a lead are player in cancer therapeutics. it if i'm in pharma where is the puck going next. in the biotech market it will be targeted therapies. a lot of companies operating in that space. several names people can look at. que biopharma. i own, my firm owns. another name imunone. lantern pharma, these companies sold off very deeply but have precision therapeutics potentially worthwhile investments in a market, if you see pfizer buying a company, 30, $40 billion f we buy the companies for 3, 400 million-dollar companies that is good risk/reward in this market. neil: more biotech than just tech? >> yeah. because biotech, if you look, neil, biotech sold off very

strong, steeply way more than the rest of the market. nasdaq came in 30% of the biotech from peak to tough was down about 65% which was second worst correction history in the biotechs index. you saw riskier areas of market, biotech, small caps, microcaps get hit first. if you look at the russell 2000 it is up 8%. it was up 13% at one point. the smaller end of the market is faring a lot better because they sold off sooner. the values got more obvious there sooner. some big cap names still trading at a little bit of frothy valuations. again i think, like i said before in summary, don't go big, go small. look where the players might be undervalue in the markets. neil: i like the way you think, lou. always very, very different. good catching up with you, my friend. >> thanks, neil appreciate it. neil: lou bass enniece. evs are back in drive, right?

seems like all in musk's world we're playing in it. henrik fisker, competitor of tesla. what is interesting henrik fisker come up with tesla, rival some on h on battery charging front which could open up 106,000s of possibilities for people to charge up and go. henrik fisker is here next. ♪. so it's decided, we'll park even deeper into parking spaces so people think they're open. surprise. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no! or you can get a quote with america's number-one motorcycle insurer and maybe save some money while you're at it. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ]

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with charge point, north american public charging partner. that changed everything because it opens up its potential customers to thousands of charging stations all across the country. henrik fisker, the fisker founder and ceo kind enough to join us. congratulations on this, mr. fisker. the reaction is overwhelming. i'm wondering how it changes things for you? because the rap against evs in general is the paucity of places to charge those vehicles with the exception of tesla that now has opened up some of its charging stations in in the future but this could be a game-changer. your thoughts? >> absolutely, neil, great to be on the show. to put in perspective the company just mentioned has is seven thousand chargers in the u.s. charge points and affiliates have 400,000, 400,000. so i think it is definitely a game-changer. it is going to be super easy for you to charge the fisker ocean.

that is partly why our stock is up. we had some good things on the earnings. our reservations keep rising. we're going to have a profit this year which is very unusual for a start-up ev company. there are probably multiple things driven up the stock today. neil: there is optimism about the ocean model you have. i believe that is the one that would be under $70,000. seems still rather eye-popping, but in general prices are coming down. it would also have a pretty formidable range, i believe about 350 miles on a single charge. can you update us on that? >> we just finished our own epa testing which you have to do with an independent lab and we're actually going to get a little more than 350 miles range. we are not quite ready to announce it. it has to be officially done by epa pricewise, we have a entry model in the fisker ocean. we are preparing the fisker peer, we showed images starting

at 29,900. i do think affordability will be a big thing in the future. everybody is making super luxury evs right now. neil: do you think that we're still on track for this goal within a decade a little bit more, new jersey they're aiming 2035 to make all ev, similar in california a couple other states toying with the same idea? is that doable? >> absolutely. i think you're going to see an inflection point. i think it will happen around 26, 27. the reason is you will have so many evs, if you buy a gasoline vehicle, you won't be able to sell it for any reasonable price because nobody will want it five years later. we saw the same thing happen with automatic transmissions. if you remember back in the '70s, even '80s you could buy a whole bunch of different cars with manuel transmissions. when that fell under 20, 30%, automakers said forget it. we'll not even offer it anymore. i think we're looking at this inflection point. i think it will happen after 2025. we'll be ready with a host of

models when that happens. neil: you know my dad fought that whole switch from manuel to automatic for years. when he gave up the fight i knew it was over. i don't know what the telling point is here but i would imagine cost would have a lot to do with it. obviously you have that lower model, the 38,000 but these are still eye-popping numbers for a lot of folks. then there is the issue now, you will have thousands of more stations which you could charge. tesla presumably will open up some of its stations for all to charge there but how does that part of it look, just the places where you can go to charge and charge quickly? >> well, one of the things we forget, neil, is, that we, actually end up most of the time charging at home because it is so easy. you don't even think about it anymore. the next thing we'll see is inductive charging where you have a mat at home, drive over it, you don't have to plug in your car. super convenient.

we need fast chargers for long trips. how often do you get in your car drive somewhere more than 300 miles? maybe once a year for thanksgiving or for christmas. for that we already have a lot of chargers. we'll have even more. i think it is all about getting used to something. same with the iphone came out. people were saying how can you have a phone with no buttons. we're used to it. we would never have buttons on a phone. i think it is going to happen. neil: let me ask about some other he had headwinds out there florida during hurricane periods, the like, people getting out of dodge, out of town, they don't want you leaving town in an ev, if it runs out of juice, you run out of luck. what do you make of that? >> well, i will say if i was in florida, have no electricity in the fisker ocean you can power your house for seven days with full battery. it has other advantages.

fisker ocean with 350 miles you can get pretty far in florida. neil: with a lot of vehicles, particularly the ev push, going on in the whole country, is that a lot of people like the suv, a lot of these crossover vehicles. that that's where they seem to be going. there are obviously some gorgeous cars, then the rest but that seems to be the focus. could you break down how that sorts out, and why that's the preferred vehicle, that type of vehicle, for this? >> i think what we have seen is that an suv combined kind of two things. you get some sport at thisness and then you get some utility. the most sensible vehicle in the world is minivan but also one nobody wants to buy. they buy it when they need it during a certain period of their life. nobody wants to be seen in minivan. the utility gives you space, but look cool with the sporty

feeling. that is what we've done with the ocean. very clear globally even for gasoline vehicles, suvs are in high demand. it is the highest gross segment. why we chose an suv we announced we're working on a pickup truck called the alaska. we'll show that later this year. it will be based someone off the ocean. it will be affordable. it will have super innovative features. as you have seen, pickups, electric pickups are happening in the market and there is a lot of growth. so i think we're going to see a big swing away from sedans. i think if you were making sedans you're not in a great place because it's a falling market. neil: interesting. real quickly you got sort of wealth of riches here. it could also be a curse. can you keep up with that demand? >> you know, that is maybe the most difficult thing. maybe the toughest thing you have to find a solution for. so right now we have a manufacturing partner that can

increase the production if we want to and we are planning to do that because we do have higher demand. we have over 65,000 reservations. we can only make 4thousand vehicles this year which is still a lot of vehicles but it is not enough to fulfill everybody this year, their orders. so we're looking to expand that with magna. we're looking at u.s. manufacturing. we already have a partner here in the u.s. where we're going to manufacture in ohio, in lordstown. there we have a giant capacity of easily 250,000 vehicles a year. so we do have capacity to expand. so you know, it always takes time to do it but we actually have the access. it's a lot easy when you have a manufacturing partner versus having to build a factory from ground up. obviously that takes several years. neil: very good point. henrik fisker, very good catching up with you again. >> good seeing you, neil. neil: all right, in the meantime here, big, big mayoral primary

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we're gonna always make sure that you have all of the financial tools and support to secure your financial future. that means a lot for my community and for every community. ♪. >> welcome back to cavuto "coast to coast." i'm jeff flock in chicago. as neil mentioned before the break, some businesses in chicago to combat crime have hired their own armed security guards. a new bill would force all grocery stores in chicago and other businesses force them to hire their own security. take a look at the bill as proposed right now. it is called the armed security protection act. it says, and i quote it now, beginning in july of next year a bank, a gas station, grocery store, or pawn shop shall employ, have on its premises at least one guard during the time it is conducting business with

the public. that would be an awful lot of security guards. barbara eastman run as neighborhood happy foods. you're not happy about this. >> i'm not happy at all about that. >> reporter: tell me why. >> it is not necessary. we have laws on the books, enforce those. have the police do their job, fund them and just you know, incarcerate the criminals. >> reporter: sounds simple. they are not seem to be able to do it at this point in time. crime, if you take a look, neil, numbers of crime in chicago is up again and it was bad to start. >> it was and still is. they let the kids out, young adults out. they go back to do the same crime again. >> reporter: you don't think this is the answer? >> not at all. >> reporter: if you were forced to hire security guards your prices are high already because of inflation, right? and it is not just gas stations too. we look at gas taxes in chicago, they're some of the highest in the nation. what would this do to prices for you and inflation?

>> well it would increase and gas prices are reflected on our invoices from companies, so that increased too. you can't do it. it is not feasible. >> reporter: barb eastman happy foods in chicago. you would like to shop here, you like to eat, you would shop here in chicago whether or not there was security guard or not, sir. neil: i don't know if i would be that that particular aisle. you're not too far from bakery products. >> reporter: pasta aisle is two over. neil: there you go. thank you, skinny. jeff flock on all of that. what is the skinny all of this, whether that is the way to go, if you want to be safe, worried about crime in the area, would you be more encouraged to places that take care of that for you and have their own security guards, just making sure everything is safe for you? let's go to jonathan hoenig, fox news contributor, capitalist pig hedge fund manager also in chicago. what do you make of this

jonathan? >> neil, i think it is outrageous. i've lived in downtown chicago for almost 25 years. i understand why people feel like they need armed security. the crime has changed. it has gotten much worse. it has gotten indiscriminate. for years there was always crime. it was in certain neighborhoods. comes anytime day or night in good and supposedly bad neighborhoods. companies don't feel they have to have private security, the legislature is requiring it. that is the basic job, role of government, to protect citizens, property rights, protect their bodies. we have number one, number two highest taxes in the country. this is insult to injury. not the reason why so many big businesses, tyson, citadel, caterpillar are leaving but a lot of individuals as well. neil: you have this mayoral primary. when i look at some of the

polls, i was surprised it is tight as it is, what do you make of that. >> there is lot of indecision here what is the right way out. none of them proposing real solution, freeing up on taxes, government stranglehold on public education, freeing up regulations like the young woman with foot store to do business here. elected officials add one or 2% to peoples bottom lines means nothing. for those in business another employee could be the difference between literally profit and loss. those types of heavy-handed government involvement in private business, neil, why so many jobs are leaving, so many businesses are leaving. what is so frustrated, neil, seeing young people involved in crime. people forget, government forbade walmart coming here. they wanted to stop walmart. some of those young kids could have benefited from a job, instead of turning to life in

crime what they are doing now. neil: good to see my friend, jonathan hoenig following all of that the big primary tomorrow we'll monitor it here on fox business. meanwhile jackie deangelis what is coming up on "the big money show" in about 13 minutes. hey, jackie. >> neil, that's right, we're talking about big tech censorship of the wuhan lab leak theory. what it could cost companies moving forward. congresswoman claudia tenney wants money allocated to the irs to secure the border. we'll talk about that at the top of the hour.

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♪. neil: all right. just as we're fearing china might provide more money and support to russia out of the blue saudi arabia provides 400 million bucks to ukraine. very few expected this. what to make of this? let's get the latest on all of it with jacqui heinrich who joins us now. rebeccah heinrich. i apologize rebecca. i was thinking of someone else there. what is the significance of this? because very few saw this coming, given our tense relationship with the saudis? something changed. what was it? does it deal with iran and their funding russian efforts in ukraine, what? >> well i think saudi arabia has been playing both sides over the

last several years. both sides being the united states and then of course the russians and really i think that the saudis would prefer to have a good partnership with the united states bah remember the biden administration really came in swinging against saudi arabia and it caused the saudis to be pushed further into the orbit not only with the russians but also the chinese. so i think, neil, this is a demonstration, listen, the saudis are still up for grabs. they can still be reasoned with. they still prefer the united states. they don't want the russians to run roughshod over europe. this $400 million, it is just for aid. it is not for military equipment. it is significant for the u.s. side. it gives vladmir putin heartburn which of course warms my heart, neil. neil: you know, rebecca, another thing i thought of it, i mentioned iran, all this drone, other technology they're providing the russians, if they hadn't, weren't doing that would we be seeing this? >> that is an important part of

this dynamic is that you do have the russians increasingly collaborating with the iranians and of course the iranians are the biggest foe to the saudis. this is why the united states had such a good relationship with saudi arabia during the last administration because we worked very closely with the saudis to counter iran and iran's growing influence. so i think that's definitely a piece of that which goes further to the point i was making i think the saudis would prefer to work with the united states, not only because we're a better partnering countering our shared foes, because we are more reliable, we should more reliable. our weapons are better, et cetera. they will need to get weapons somewhere if they can't get them from the u.s. they will look elsewhere. this is the a good thing for the united states to see the saudis supporting the ukrainians in this way. neil: while i have you, rebecca, concerning the hudson institute perspective and your own what is your thinking on this ukraine war as we get into the second year now with no end in sight?

>> great question. speaking for myself, i know some of my colleagues support this view too, the united states needs to be really clear about our strategic objectives. i'm fully supportive of ukrainian victory which is actually getting the russians out of ukraine. i'm concerned that president biden settled into supporting ukraine, not losing, which leads protraction and war of attrition. i believe it is incoherent and immoral and dangerous. what i would like to see moving into the next year of the war a much clearer objective. push being the ukrainians over the line and giving them weapons they need and operational leeway. back to the iranian drones, neil, the irgc is training the russians on those drones inside of ukraine. the ukrainians should be allowed to hit them and on the other side of the ukraine into russian territory. it is not deep into russia but ukraine should be allowed to hit

that. that russians get to negotiating if they know they can't win. neil: rebeccah heinrichs, my apologies screwing up the intro in the beginning. always great to see you. >> i love to be can confused for her. thanks neil. neil: you're both very good at what you do. rebecca heinrichs. the supreme court of the united states taking up the president's college loan forgiveness. why a particular watcher of all of this is worried about the ramifications after this. ♪. for businesses of all sizes, there are a lot of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. when you choose comcast business internet, you choose the largest, fastest reliable network. you choose advanced security for total peace of mind. and you choose a next generation 10g network

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award-winning customer service that has your back. neil:ing all right, sorry we're tight for time, elaine parker, job creators network, foundation president. we have the supreme court taking up this loan forgiveness idea of the president's. you're leery. explain. >> well, look, if this program is allowed to go through, this will give not only this president, but every future president a blank check to create programs this size without any input from congress or the american people. but it will also signal to colleges that they can continue increasing tuition on these students faster than the rate of inflation. they are real culprits in this. they're sitting on $700 billion in endowments and all the while they continue increasing tuition on these students and providing cree programs that are worthless, provide little to no value, paying their presidents millions of dollars all on the backs of these students.

they are the ones that need to be the held accountable for. neil: what is your read on which way the court might go? >> well, look, we've had the texas court agreed with us and vacated the entire program. it was upheld by the fifth circuit. we feel very confident in our arguments, and we hope that the supreme court agrees with us. neil: so for the job angle in this, this could be counterproductive, right? in an environment where loans are just forgiven, that doesn't mean jobs automatically appear, right? >> no. i don't think there's any connection between forgiving loans and jobs. i think what happens is, it's a signal to colleges and universities to continue what they're doing. i don't understand why the administration isn't calling the heads of these colleges to account for all of this crisis that we're keeling with. neil: all right. got it. i apologize for the tight time, elaine. we'll watch closely. meanwhile, jackie deangelis takes over. jackie: hello, everyone, i'm jackie deangelis. taylor: i'