the government in 2019. that was the year before the payments were halted for the pandemic. now, i think the number sounds a little bit high, but even when president obama got rid of those dastardly bankers, it was estimated government would take over $100 billion in 25 years. now take a look at this, folks, it's going to cost $197 billion, and that's before the supreme court decision. the bottom line, getting rid of due diligence risk analysis that the private sector would have done or was doing has resulted in much higher tuition asks and now $1.6 trillion in loans that could soon fall into the laps of everyone. i'm talking about people that never went to college or people that already paid off their college loans. so beyond forgivenessness the scheme to forgive to loans on the taxpayer dime, it only is going to mean higher tuition for everyone, folks. list claman, i just hope that doesn't happen. liz: well, we don't want indentured servitude, you know, people in their 60s -- charles: don't go to college if

you can't pay the hone. i know people in the ghetto that can't pay rent. there's no way in the world someone making six figures a year should get a dime of taxpayer money. >> hear, hear. liz: agreed. don't sign something without reading the fine print. that said, make college free. [laughter] any other ideas, everybody? charles: [inaudible] liz: you got it. folks, we are looking at mixed markets as we kick off the final hour of trade -- [laughter] how much do we love charles? all right, for the month of february. yes, last session, and it i appears for the moment that the dow is the only one in the moment. the dow jones industrials losing about 172 points, the s&p flat, slightly higher. the nasdaq up 40 points, the russell up 11. the tech sector actually looks, you know, let's call it firm at this hour. nasdaq leaders include rivian, applied materials, lucid group, meta is in there, docusign. so a bunch. of real technology names there.

now, if you look at the green in the nasdaq 100 as well, it is populated with semiconductor names. nvidia moving higher by a quarter of a percent, marvel, 2.5%. broadcom up 1.6%, a amd up three-quarters of a percent. when you flip it over and hook at the nasdaq laggards, you've got names that aren't totally this can-focused, constellation energy, keurig dr. pepper, kraft heinz, but this mixed market is way less important than two stories developing within them right now, both of which swirl around the real picture when it comes to the health of the u.s. consumer. to the dow heat map, the blue chips and the one major index that is pretty much deeper or swimming in the red. we do have the dow down 179 at the moment. all the a way at the bottom there, turn your attention to goldman sachs. it is the biggest laggard, now down 3. very low, close to the lows of the session. now, at the bank's investor dayed today, ceo david solomon

bluntly said in so many words that that goldman's foray into main street banking -- something, by the way, that was launched well before he was named ceo -- has been a bust. solomon bluntly stated, quote, we've significantly narrowed our ambitions for consumer strategy. he then revealed that goldman is considering strategic alternatives for its consumer business which has lost a pretty jaw-dropping $4 billion over the last 3 years. that division includes the apple card partnership which lost $1 billion in just the first 9 months of 2022. but also that pricey acquisition of green sky, the platform that offers loans for home improvement and health care. now, that $2 billion acquisition was driven by the solomon regime. ing spiking costs for the division are one thing, okay? we get that. but now it's paired with the consumer very wary about an economic slowdown. bring on target, part two of the story. target shares are actually higher at the moment. we've got them up nearly 2

percent after the big box retailer posted a surprise profit beat in the holiday quarter but issued a cautious full-year forecast. target noted that customers are being more vigilant and sticking with just the necessities, and even then they're putting fewer of those necessities, also known as discretionary items, into their shopping cart. as if put a fine point on the cautious consumer negative, a target exec says they plan to launch more items starting at $3, $5, $10 -- i was calling it the dollar menu -- to appeal to value-conscious shoppers. all of this underpinned by the latest read on consumer confidence of which fell unexpectedly this month. as climbing interest rates appear to be taking a toll on consumers, is it time to invest in areas way less sensitive to further rate hikes? let's get to the floor show, joining me now chief investment strategist brian nick and t3 strategic officer scott redler.

brian, it looks like investors are exiting the bargaining stages of grief. the bargaining stage is over, and the fed if's resolved to continue hiking -- resolve to continue hiking interest rates is something they're accepting. they're finally starting to believe jay powell, right? >> i think that's right. the fed's had a hard time convincing the markets that interest rates have to go up, but the data we got starting with that big payroll number, higher than expected retail sales and inflation have persuaded the market that the fed is going to go to 5% and above by the month of june. what's been remarkable, and this continues last week, the data on the consumer, they just don't seem to be that susceptible to higher interest rates. liz: when with you hear from target, and this is in the trend of. s type of reporting -- trenches type of reporting, they say we're looking at discretionary items, few of -- fewer of them, in the shopping carts. >> target is primarily selling goods. we're seeing a rapid

acceleration from goods-based consumption to service-based. if you're operating an airline, a hotel chain, a small business, a restaurant, you're probably seeing much better business because consumers are putting more of that their dollars into those types of items. we're seeing this in the inflation numbers and the consumer spending numbers from month to month. liz: let me bring in scott redler here. as a trader, i know you watch the s&p levels very closely, scott. if you were to dig down and see which or part of the s&p looks most most attractive knowing the fed's going higher, let's make our viewers some money. >> sometimes they can make more money sitting in cash, but i do hear you. your other quest is spot on. the fed is getting what they the want, a slower consumer, and it's just taken time. the consumer's had a better balance ooh sheet than the federal government because they got the free money and all those stimulus checks. it's starting to to slow and starting to filter through. so you can see in the stock market where a lot of the

consumer names have acted very poorly. amazon had a horrible report. it's been out of play and trending lower. that's been a void for traders. you would think with higher rates that the banks would act better because that's the playbook, but they're also kind of trading in line. at this point there's really no safe spot, it's just about your time frame, and this week is a very important week as far as, you know, we started this corrective phase on february 16th when the s&p broke 4100 and we put a low in at 3943 friday. i think tomorrow more important than consumer numbers because we don't have a lot of things, you have tesla's event, right? tesla's event is tomorrow. it's been the poster child of risk for all of january. had bigtime moves, and now traders are trying to figure out can we go a little bit higher, can tesla act well or do they sell it? and if they do sell the event tomorrow in tesla, you know what friday's lows are going to get taken out? i don't think anything's going to hold up so well. liz: tesla is down about half a

percent here even as it says it's going to build that new plant in mexico said to be worth about a billion dollars. scott just said, brian, that there's nowhere to hide. what about energy? we have some very smart strategists on here talking about energy saying people will still need it in many different forms, light sweet crude edge of the session, let's see, higher. same with brent, natural gas, arbob gasoline too. >> a lot of those commodity prices are down significantly from the peak, and you're seeing that reflected in the performance of the energy sector. core late ared to the price of the underlying commodity. we don't quite know just how aggressively chinas -- china has reopened. if china starts posting some really, really strong months and quarters economically, that could increase the price of energy and cause those stocks to move back -- liz: okay, but scott said nowhere to hide. do you agree with that? >> certainly if you're looking short duration, you have to compare everything else to cash.

one area that we think makes a lot of sense, higher yielding parts of the corporate bond market. so instead of giving you a yield of 4-5%, it's more like 78-9% -- 8-9%. it's relatively insensitive to interest with rate increases -- liz: say this again so to our viewers listen. >> higher yielding parts of the corporate market. if you're in a bond fund and tends to be more correlated to equities, but most of that is cutting into yield in the income you're getting. liz: and all say that anything if above investment grade, right? >> sure. well, the lower edge of investment grade, the higher end of high yield. you have to take a little bit more risk. liz: a little more risk. >> yeah. but not as much as the equity market. liz: scott, as we look at economic data, austan goolsbee, who a friend of this network, has just been named and it's his first speech as the head of the chicago fed, coming out with some comments today. he didn't specifically talk

about exactly what he felt the fed should do because he's smarter than that. he doesn't want to do anything like that. but as we look at some of the comments, he said it is a mistake to rely too heavily on market reactions for guidance on monetary policy path. do you think that jay powell looks too closely at what the market's doing and and then gets a little more forceful every time he sees the markets go up and he says, no, we're going to keep raising rates so that he cools this market down? >> i think he does watch the market. and the beginning of the year everyone said that he was going to cut rates twice, and i was, like, you guys are out of your mind. if the s&p revisits the 2022 lows which is 3500, that's the only way he does. we've got strong data, and they need it and they said they were going to go up throughout then end of the year, and finally the market adjusted itself. it's only down 5% -- liz: to be clear, you don't think it's going to go down to 3500. >> i think that if they stay higher for longer, which they

have to, and the consumer continues to weaken, okay, and earnings continue to go down and recession talk gets higher, you're going to see a corrective phase further in the market. and there is a chance, you can't rule anything out. but, listen, if you're a long-term investor like if you put money in every single month into an s&p fund, this type of cycle helps your average cost over time. liz: yes. >> if you're short term, you have to be careful because you need to go level by level,ing data point by day that point becausejanuary it looks like disinflation, and lately -- liz: inflation. brian's a long-term guy. quick thought, where do you think the s&p is going? >> s&p we think is going to be pretty flat this year. liz: not 3,000 like the morgan stanley guys think? >> no. we don't see a hard landing or severe recession that would take us down to levels like that. i think the thing that was interesting about the target story is they're not going to be raising prices as much this year. when you think of the flip side, that means inflation could come down and and profit margins are

going to get squeezed which is one reason why equities are not our favorite class. liz: not the favorite. i'm getting that from scott too. thanks, guys, we'll see you. two of the richest men in the world are diving into the a.i. arms race in an effort or to become arms dealers and capitalize on the hottest tech trend. the cofounder of waze, uri he e screen, up next to tell us what mark zuckerberg and elon musk see in chatgpt and why it may not be as disruptive9 as the two billionaires believe. by the way, the last time uri was here, the segment became one of our most popular ever. uri is back in a fox business exclusive in just a moment. closing bell, 49 minutes away. dow is down 165. stay right here, "the claman countdown" is chatting about chat bots in a moment. ♪

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liz: two tech world titans going head to head assembling task forces to battle the big name in artificial intelligence right now. that, of course, is chatgpt. as mark zuckerberg announces meta will create a new internal product group focused on generative a.i., a report started swirling that elon musk, an original investor in chatgpt's parent if open a.i -- and he's no longer there -- but he has approached researchers to develop an alternative. microsoft, of course, the big open a.i. investors, has put chatgpt front and center announcing its next windows update promotes the bing a.i. cat bot. okay, so now every time you're on microsoft windows, it's right there for you. is chatgpt changing the tech

landscape before our eyes or missing a critical step in becoming a forever tech disrupter? let's ask uri levine, he's the genius behind mapping app waze which he sold to google for $1. 3 billion in 2013. he's now a board member of several a.i.-focused up companies. he's here in a fox business exclusive. uri, now you've got this arms race that is ramping up. it's obviously something that mark zuckerberg feels he might be behind on. he's diving in. elon, who was one of the original founders of open a.i., he's out of it now, he wants to start his own. he's apparently hired the google guy who was doing their a.i. engineering. what do you think of all of this, first, as it becomes this arms race. >> so i think that the most amazing part is that users are starting to use them, right? and this is where the disruption is -- just imagine that if there

is a user, they used to go to google and search for stuff and they have got the promotion being done by google, right now we're going into chatgpt, and they're not going to google anymore. so, therefore, it presents a threat for google and their core business. and that threat is actually becoming very attractive for everyone else, right? so everyone is going into, you know, an arm race that are a basically saying, wait a minute, let's make shower that we get a say here. and i think at the end of the day this is about where the users are going and not where the technology is going. liz: yeah. let's be clear that any development can be disruptive, not just technology. i a often think about the redesign of the pull tab on aluminum cans where they went from the pull tab to the ring, and that was disruptive. but here is it disruptive enough yet to slay a giant like google?

>> not really. google at the end of the day has multiple business lines and some of their more successful, some of them are less successful. but certainly can create a slowdown the in the growth that they experience. and that result might be that, you know, microsoft with their positions of bing and potentially facebook, potentially elon musk will actually present something that is going to change the market. liz: i think about when i was doing a google search fodes fory beaches in france to see what the brave american, canadian and british soldiers were doing. and when i googled it, a bunch of stuff came up. some of it was obviously paid search, not necessarily the best. it feels like if you do it through chatgpt, you get an assessment. you get a whole platter of it that is vetted a little bit

better, am i correct here? so i would think that google is certainly in the sights here. >> so i agree, but i think that at the end of the day what you get at google is -- [inaudible] you can read and decide can your own and whereas you go to chatgpt or any generative a.i. technology, you are getting something that is for you, and it's not necessarily all the available information. so there are advantages which makes it simpler and faster and accessible and nicer, but they might be disadvantages of inaccuracy and inability to decide what is right and what is wrong. and the wrap-around, the fact that you're going to get them, read them in an essay-like language makes that more attractive but not necessarily more accurate.

but definitely a lot of people are starting to use that more than they are the using google search and this is where the challenge is. liz: that, to me, is key. that's an important message, that google might be on its heels and so, therefore, you've got the larry pages of the world saying, let's hurry this up. let's start to beat, you know, what's out there already which brings me to mark zuckerberg and elon musk. both of them see real opportunity here. are they behind now? is microsoft in the pole position especially considering they've got the new chatgpt button that's going do -- going to come out on windows? listen, bing's not big compared to google, but windows is huge. and if it's on the task bar, could that be a game-changer? >> i think that generally speaking, yes. anything can be a game-changer here because really what we don't know is where the users are going to go, right? they're going to use chatgpt on

facebook, then all of a sudden mark suber berke -- zuckerberg have the upper hand. if they are going to go into bing and windows and use it from there, this is where microsoft is going to have the upper hand. elon musk is going to building something, yet to be seen, but every time that elon musk is doing something, it turns out to be significant. so i would consider him as a major player. liz: oh, boy, that is true. he has just willed many things to happen. and it's been amazing to watch. but in some cases, right now at least, let's see if he can catch up. good to see you, uri. thank you very much. >> thank you. liz: uri levine. first it was banned on military phones, but now the biden administration looking to squeeze the high out of tiktok on all government phones as it looks for a complete ban on the popular chinese-owned social media app. we're headed to the white house on what the crackdown would look like and when it must kick in.

there's a clock ticking right now on it. we're going to the tell you about that when we come back. closing bell, 367 minutes away. we've -- 37 minutes away. the nasdaq up, but now the s&p has turned negative, down 3 points, dow jones industrials down nearly 200. ♪ ♪

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liz: breaking news, president joe biden speaking live at this moment in virginia beach. he's focusing on affordable health care. the president just said his new

budget will cut costs and trim the deficit by $2 the trillion. now, as the president focuses on health care and the budget, the white house is pushing forward at this hour in joining congress' ban -- call, rather, to ban tiktok. the administration now giving e agencies a tight window to delete the wildly popular are video app from all nt dices. the move comes on the heels of congress banning the app on government devices. that happened back in december. let's get to edward lawrence at the white house. edward, not often the president's in lockstep with both democrat and republican members of congress, but the tiktok is it, right? what's it going to look like, this ban? >> reporter: that's right. the ban goes into effect in 30 days for all federal devices. what's interesting is this ban actually extends to government contractors that also have to take the app off their phone. that ban will be in the next 90 days. governments have to -- government contractors have to remove tiktok from their phones. now, in making the new rule a

white house official tells me this is a critical step to addressing the risks that the app poses to sensitive government data. onboard air force one, the deputy white house press secretary says this is the right thing to do, to ban at this time. some critics say this is a little bit too late. 29 states have already banned tiktok on state quites -- devices, there they are on the screen. president biden canceled a commerce department investigation into tiktok his first month into office, so here we are now two years later, and now it's banned on federal devices. >> it's that risky. tiktok is a back door way that the chinese communist party can get into your phone and sensitive data and key strokes and passwords and photographs and also messaging that that tailors personally to you to influence you. so it is like putting a spy balloon in your telephone. >> reporter: so in a statement, a tiktok spokesperson told fox business these bans are little more than political theater. we we hope when it comes to

addressing national security concerns about tiktok beyond government devices, congress will explore solutions that won't have the effect of censoring the voices of millions of americans. now, the house foreign relations committee is going to take up this vote later on today about if tiktok should be banned, it could give the power to ban tiktok for everyone to president joe biden should it pass this committee, it goes to the full house. should it pass the full house, it goes to the senate and possibly the president's desk. back to you, liz. liz: uh-oh. cue the angry and tearful teenagers. [laughter] >> reporter: exactly. liz: we'll be watching all of that. all right, let's take a look at the markets. again, just 30 minutes left to trade in the month of february. we do have the nasdaq still up just 16 points now. s&p is a little bit deeper into red territory, down 5 points. the dow jones industrials now down 208, low of the session, i think, is 216. yep, 216 points. so kind of getting back down there the at the moment. let's look at norwegian cruise

line shares, bottom of the s&p here and sinking after the cruise operator reported a wider than expected fourth quarter loss. shares down 11% after revenue guidance also came in below expectations as norwegian deals with rising costs related to food, fuel and labor. we should check on shares of rival carnival and royal caribbean, they are also getting swamped, carnival's down 2%, how royal caribbean down 1.6%. wrangler and lee jeans' parent contour brands, a bump of 21% for ktb. contour brands is the apparel manufacturer, and they beat earnings expectations coming in with a profit of 88 cents per share. that's 21 cents better than estimates. stronger wrangler brand revenues offset weakness in lee sales. remember when telehealth was all the rage during the pandemic lockdowns, but then after everything opened up, telemedicine stocks flatlined?

well, the quarterly report from hims and hers health shows that the sector may have a pretty strong pulse, at least the stock does. it's the up 15.5%. the health and wellness company exceeded estimates on the top and bottom lines with its per-share narrowing from a year ago. hims and hers says its platform surpassed 1 million subscribers from telehealth, and there we go. all right, let's get to television. dish can network stocks losing signal at this hour, down 5.7% at the moment after the satellite tv provider got a double downgrade from bank of america. bofa cutting the stock to to underperform are from a buy and slashing the price target to a street low of $10 a share. what you see here right now at $11.50, earlier dish had hit a 52 the-week low of $11.09. so it's off that low but still struggling at this hour, and dish also confirmed that a previously disclosed network outage was the result of a

cybersecurity breach that affected the company's internal communication system and and customer-facing support sites. in a statement dish said certain data were extracted after its web site went down for multiple days last week. dish not the only one dealing with cybersecurity issues. u.s. marshals service suffering from a major hack of sensitive material as cyber crimes threaten to cost governments and businesses $8 trillion this year and maybe even more. and i'm not just talking about the money. enter whiz, the hottest cybersecurity start-up. it just became the fastest growing tech unicorn to reach a decacorn valuation, yes, $10 billion. ceo and cofounder joins us first on fox business with his threat assessment. and from one successful ceo to another, bob pittman is the cofounder and ceo of iheart media. he was the son of a small town

minister who kickstarted his career in radio at the ripe old age of 15. when he took a job as a radio announcer to help fund his pilot lessons. yeah, he just wanted to be a pilot, but guess what? he ended up being a media guru, giant of the industry. he founded a new network called m t in the '80s which went on to define america's music video generation. here his unique rise to the top in this week's edition of the everyone talks to liz podcast. it's available on apple, google, spotify and, yes, iheart media. oh, by the way, bob never graduated college. closing bell ringing in 26 minutes. we've got the dow down about 233 points. stay tuned, we're coming right back. ♪ ♪ we've never been. your dedicated fidelity advisor can help you open those doors.

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liz: fox business alert, the united states government has suffered a major security breach. the u.s. marshals service saying in a statement the it discovered a ransomware attack that has compromised sensitive information. the department of justice is apparently still conducting a forensic investigation into the affected system but found that the hack obtained access to sensitive information including the returns from legal processes, administrative information and -- this is worrisome -- personally identifiable information pertain thing to subjects of marshal service investigations. third parties and certain u.s. marshal service employees. the justice department said the attack did not gain access to witness protection program data, and no one in the program is at risk. but it did say the security breach is a major incident. so as the most powerful government in the world cleans up this cyber crime scene, maybe the world's largest cybersecurity unicorn can save them. the name is wiz. wiz was just crowned the fastest tech company to reach a $10

billion valuation. they did it in just 2.9 years since its founding. the cyber start-up just raised $300 until series d funding -- $300 billion, wants to help customers quickly identify, prioritize and remove risks. its customer base includes more than 35% of fortune 100 companies including morgan stanley using them, salesforce, colgate and, yes, even us here at fox. to cofounder and ceo, asat rappaport, you just landed from israel. you're here in the states. congratulations. you've won this award. you did it even faster than facebook did? >> actually, yes, faster than facebook, but it's also different times, different market, so it's hard to, you know, compare. having said that, it's a great milestone. we don't usually celebrate kind of milestones of valuation. what we celebrate is preferably talent and our customers. but, yeah, it's --

liz: you cofounded the company at the start of the pandemic, 2020. liz: why did you do it when this is a crowded space? you must have thought we can do this better, we can protect the cloud which which everybody was using at that point because we were all stuck at home using our laptops. you thought you could do it better? >> yeah, actually, my mom thought i'm nuts. [laughter] starting a company at the pandemic, it was, you know, we have enough uncertainty and definitely starting in a pandemic, having said that, maybe a message for all companies starting in a crisis, in a downturn the, i think starting a company in a crisis makes you more focused. and that's what made us focused on the ability to support customer from far. that's also helped us to grow, you know, to deploy very easy and, actually, to get the best of the best customers in the world. liz: there are a lot of competitors out here. we can put some of them on the screen. they've gone public. my question to you is what is it that you believe you to do better and differently from them? >> i think if i say one thing,

it's about our culture of being customer-obsessed. i think that's kind of being good listeners or to what our customers are saying and learning from them. it's not being the smartest in the room, it's actually being the best listener in the room, and that's kind of what we're going. liz: zscaleer, palo alto networks, they would all say we're obsessively into the customer and making sure they get their service. >> i think we had an opportunity to build our company like cloud native, this privilege wasn't for the public if companies like crowdstrike and palo alto network, so our ability to build it on a new technology stack from the get go and support the best of the best customer, that was super helpful. liz: you don't get $300 million in any round, let alone series d, unless these investors whether it be the early ones, you know, i'm thinking sequoia and some of these other names, bear-under-parred ar -- rer-under-parred if arnot as well, unless you can prove

you're making money. $10 billion valuation. is it your subscriber fees? what is it? what is your business model? >> so our business model is subscription fee in the cloud in a way what we're kind of our claim to fame was the fastest company to $10 million -- $100 million, amount -- almost to double it in the less than nine months. so i think investors are seeing amazing customers, also the potential of the high market value and also the spectacular growth that we have. liz: how do to you at wiz detect and then destroy threats coming at the cloud? >> i think what's great about the cloud, it is relevant for any company on the planet, and it's creating, you know, or we were talking about agility, and companies are adopting it. having said that, there is a real threat and you need to be very focused on that, you know, the transition to the cloud made cybersecurity teams think differently about this problem, and i think us coming, allowing companies to deploy without any agent, without any censor and

getting the time to basically zero and that was important this our success. liz: well, it's pretty scary, the expense. and i'm not just talking about the financial expense. we can put up what it's expected to cost in 2023 and how that will jump in the next couple of years. that's the financial cost. but in the u.s. marshal situation, look, $8 trillion now, $10.5 trillion by 2025. but what if some insiders or sources, names were revealed or the hackers got ahold of them? how important is it right now to make sure that this stuff is secure? >> i think it's a great reminder for us that it's not only a financial thing when we think, sometimes it's also about life matters. and i think the importance of cybersecurity for any company and also our government and our federal is super important. we're facing not only, you know, cyber hackers that are looking for money, but also nation that are attacking our countries. and this is something to be aware. these are a lot of power that

are seeking. liz: i'm going to ask you a question that a may annoy you, but i know that your investors are wondering the same thing. i'm talking about your venture capitalists. ipo? they want their money back that they've invested. soon? >> yeah. definitely, hook, we are preparing our company to be ipo-ready, and now we're kind of waiting for you to announce, like, the markets are open, and that's kind of what we're waiting to see. you know, going to ipo in this market -- liz: market conditions. >> exactly. liz: assaf, please come back. >> sure. liz: 650 employees from two years ago or to -- 20 to, he had non. amazing. >> thank you. liz: goldman sachs' chief david sol mornings as we told you, under the microscope at the company's big event here in new york city. was he the gold man, or do shareholders want him sacked? charlie gasparino's got some inside information. that's coming up next.

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new session lows. loss of 252. if goldman sachs thought to could clear the skies for investors at the getting together in new york city it is still raining. shares are down 3.6% right now, still at the very bottom of the dow jones at this hour. the move positives the company's second annual investor day as did solomon hoped to impress shareholders with their turn around plan. let's get to charlie gasparino. not working at this moment. >> i spent all day talking to former bankers, former partners, talking to investors, you name it on what ails goldman sachs and what's ailing david solomon's stewardship of it and you know, here's what they will tell you, they will tell you in some respects david was handed a bad hand. marcus was not invention. it came to him.

on other aspects they will tell you marcus expanded greatly under his stewardship. liz: the consumer beiging division. >> that costing them a lot of money. he took essentially a small thing under lloyd blankfein and blew it up and it obviously failed. there are two sides to this story. everybody is trying to figure it out. i will tell you this, this is what we do know, today we should point out you know, david solomon failed to impress investors. the stock is down on a day morgan stanley is up. it is not a rate driven reason why it is down. i think the reason it is down he failed to say anything new. he didn't articulate a new strategy. he said here is stuff we'll grow, asset management, wealth management, and trust me i'm getting the house in order. so if you put all of that together they, you know, he merely reiterated his past plan and no one will be impressed but here's the good side of the story, david saloman is a very

capable ceo we should point out. everybody knows him, thinks he is doing a decent job in difficult times. david solomon, the stock of goldman sachs by a lot of measures is pretty cheap if you look at it. do your financial measurements. you will see the stock could be considered cheap how much money it makes. it still makes a lot of money, goldman sachs. third, david saloman is a banker. he knows how to thread the needle in banking. here is what people believe he will do. goldman has no comment on the strategy because i did run it bay them. he can't buy too big in terms of asset or wealth management. he will definitely expand into asset, wealth management latch things on. it can't be too big. that negates a big deal buying state street which is a fairly big bank, does a lot of custodial services. maybe it means northern trust. that is a big acquisition. that is $20 billion. why can't he do big acquisitions like that? because when you get into the

systematically important bank range you start buying stuff like that the fed puts the brakes on it. it goes and tremendous review, it could be two years. what they think he will do a lot of smaller significant deals which essentially grows out the asset management and wealth management piece that james foreman at morgan stanley already did with deals like e trade and others. that is where we're going. he will be in a acquisition mode when he gets his house right, employment down right, workforce, went through layoffs. markets have to come back a bit more. they're kind of wobbly right now. goldman will do a deal is the vast consensus among investors, clients, other ceos, former partners. it is constrained in what it can do by the fed and antitrust concerns. so look for mid-sized deals in the asset management, wealth management area which clearly it needs to expand upon.

you know, larry fink at goldman, at blackrock has a nine trillion dollar business. someone mentioned this to me. it is hard to double nine trillion. goldman sachs asset management, i don't know, i should know this off the top of my head but i think it is in the billions. they could probably double that, you know what i'm saying? that's where i think they're going. we should also point out that, goldman sachs has a, has a history of being among the best trading and investment banking franchises. so don't, don't discount that. the one thing i say about david going forward, there is a lot of consternation, mostly personal, rather than performance so to speak. the the d egg d.j.ing gets inside people annoyed. >> who cares. >> i'm just saying. >> maybe it is compensation.

>> here is the thing, when you have people on the inside taking shots at you, a lot of ceos can with stand the analyst attacking them, politicians, whatever. bob chapek, he could take ron desantis attacking him. it is hard to take people internally like a bob iger talking to a board member and attacking him from within. liz: yeah. >> that's usually not a good sign. david is going to have to do something about that cultural issue because when it comes from inside, you know, that is when things get really squirrely. chapek is the perfect example. liz: charlie, thank you very much. get back in the studio tomorrow already, my goodness. oh, he was snowed in. two inches of snow. closing bell, 2 1/2 minutes away. february markets coming in like a lion and going out like a damp squirrel? the major averages while mixed at this hour look to close down

for the month. we've got the dow looking to lose about 4% on the month. s&p down 2 1/2%. the nasdaq down under 1%. markets giving back some of the great gains in january. today's "countdown" closer says because there is no north star to guide the market. ross mayfield, i will ask you to be the north star. you say this market is not resembling a bull or a bear. you have 360 billion under management. what does it look like over at baird to you? >> right. trying to come up with an allegory for this market is difficult. we think the bear is probably over but the bull doesn't seem to have the animal spirits left yet. we like it as a hare market. stay with me. a bit skittish, reacting to new data aggressively, cpi data, fed minutes, it will be very skiddish. up and down. we think it is very volatile

year unimpressive gains, flat to single-digit bear market. liz: keep shunting money in, dollar-cost averaging. you like industrials and energy, why? >> well we like a soft landing at some point so we like the value trade. we think inflation stays elevated. rates stay elevated. pro-value again. industrials things like geopolitical tensions, aerospace, defense. infrastructure favoring the sector as well. if we get the dollar to continue to weaken. we think that is a possibility, industrials really could be strong here. liz: ross, great to have you, baird investment strategy. analyst over there. [closing bell rings. liz: come in the studio, visit. dow and s&p go red the second time in the last three days. nasdaq finishing positive in the green for second day in a row. that will do it for us. "kudlow" is next. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to larry kudlow, i'm larry kudlow. so, most of the media attention right now focused on