billion in two weeks to prop them up? so maybe this is where the weakness the coming from, certainly there's some angst. now the, these aren't big moves, but again after yesterday and after the start we had today and also considering that wall street is looked at rate cuts, just maybe, just maybe this could be why we're pulling back here. something to watch for. the last hour of trading going to be a lot more exciting than normal and, folks, it's always exciting. right, liz claman? liz: oh, yeah. [laughter] exciting kind of like, you know, blood dripping from your jaws exciting because i've got to the the tell you, charles, look at the lower bug here as we kick off the final hour of trade. there goes that roaring rally we just saudis pate 40 minutes ago -- saw dissipate. stocks reverse aring course and now the dow and the s&p are iffy. we've got the dow jones industrials down 1 point, the s&p -- which had been negative a minute ago concern up 5 points. but remember, for the dow we had been up 481 points.

right now as you see the blue chips are bouncing between red and green. the s&p, which had earlier spiked 70 points, is kind of doing the same. it's up 12 points, so it's the as if the market is getting some headlines here. we're going to tell you what we think those are and ab absorbing them and deciding whether it is good news or bad news or sort of we don't know. the nasdaq is clinging to about 114 points. but the -- by the way, it was a 292-point jump earlier in the session, and the russell had gained 31 points earlier. it is now down 7. now, initially, investors early this morning had fallen back into the old pattern of somehow interpreting fed chair jay powell's declaration that raising interest rates is the best therapy for raging inflation to mean that, oh, don't worry, we investors think we're close to the end of that right-tightening cycle. so what happened in the last, well, let's call it 42 the minutes now i? the regional bank stocks.

take a look here. just 4 the hours after fed chair or jay powell insisted that the collapse of silicon valley bank was a, quote, outlier, fellow regionals which, by the way, yesterday we pointed out had had began to the erode at a faster pace, are all flounderingment. first republic down 4.7, comerica down 7.5%, and zions bank one of the biggest laggards on s&p right now. this afternoon moody's rating agency said it is putting comerica's a1 long-term ratings of certain bonds on review for downgrades as investors run to ec. nasdaq had been on pace to close at a 5-week high, sill in the green by 113 points. we've got a hoisting by a mix of names. netflix, marvel technology, regeneron. netflix is a really hot stock right now, up 7.7%.

the party is really hanging out in the chip sector. while we are looking at some of these chip names including asml holdings, micron awe applied materials, advanced microguys and nvidia, web -- remember, we need to punch up block. hindenburg research, shares are falling about 15 points -- 15%, rather, which accuses -- this report accuses the ceo and founder, jack dorsey, of obfuscating the cash app's surface services, obfuscating the true user numbers can hindenburg alleges is filled with fake and dupe cannily cat accounts. we're watching block really closely right now. it's coming out with a statement in the last hour saying it intends to work with the securities and exchange commission, is exploring legal action against hindenburg and

that it is confident in its products, reporting, compliance and controls. the buyer crowd is very thin right now when it comes to the small banks. and we've already showed you those, but there is no worry swirling for investors in big social media stocks. snap and meta are both moving higher as the ceo of tiktok ebb cured hours -- endured hours of bipartisan beatdown on capitol hill. both democrats and and republicans ripping into chew, accusing tiktok of being a pawn used by the chinese government to spy on americans. and yesterday it was all about the fed. look at the lines of people waiting to get into the tiktok hearing this morning where ceo shou chew sat in the hot seat. our team coverage bins with grady trimble live outside the hearing room in the rayburn building on capitol hill. grady. >> reporter: liz, bipartisan beatdown is the only way to put it.

the biggest concern from lawmakers on the house energy and commerce committee is that tiktok user data could end up in the hands of the chinese communist party. over and over again, lawmakers are both sides of the aisle grilling chew, the ceo of tiktok, asking about tiktok's relationship with chinese parent company bytedance and the ccp. and over and over again, committee members expressing their frustration that he's dancing around their questions. i caught up with the top democrat on the committee. but has he, has he answered any questions directly and made you feel better about tiktok? >> no, just the opposite. he doesn't answer anything, and he -- my concern over the influence of the communist party's only heightened. >> reporter: another worry for lawmakers, the addictive nature of the app and harmful content on it. one of the more compelling points in the hearing, florida republican congresswoman kat cammack showed a tiktok video

apparently threatening members of the committee. chew later confirmed during the hearing that tiktok took that video down the while the hearing was still going on. she then questioned whether tiktok can actually monitor and is remove content like this. >> this video has been up for 41 days. it is the a direct threat to the chairwoman of this committee, the people in room, and yet it still remains on the platform: and you expect us to believe that you are capable of maintaining the data security, privacy security of 150 million americans where you can't even protect the people in this room? >> reporter: so i've been talking to lawmakerrers for the past several weeks, and a lot of them today as they come out of the hearing room, not all of them, liz, supported outright ban of tiktok. but i think after today's hearing there's growing consensus that the federal government and congress needs to do something about this company and this app. liz? liz: yeah. and let's find out what that

something might really be. grady, thank you. let's bring in bernstein's senior internet ec by ity research analyst who covers tiktok as well as meta and snap. mark, house energy and commerce chair kathy mcmorris rogers of washington came out swinging saying, quote, your platform should be banned. after what you've seen, is a u.s. tiktok ban with now inevitable? >>st the hard to say. it's hard to say. it's one where you really need to understand the u.s. political system far better than i do on whether a outright ban is actually possible. you know, if we rewind back to kind of the cfius ultimatum that came out last week which effectively said, you know, spin it off or face a ban, there's a part of that story that's actually quite interesting which is, you know, when we went through the whole will they, won't they break up and they have to divest tiktok under the trump executive order, the chinese came out with a new law

effectively protecting chinese ip to effectively prevent a potential spin-off. the tiktok algorithm, you know, that's really incredibly addictive and engaging and why users love the platform, you know, would fit under a chinese ip, so could they even spin off of if they were, you know, they might not even be allowed to spin it off. and in that scenario then, you know, what is the u.s. left to do under its kind of current system? they might be forced to effectively pursue a ban if there's no other option on the table. liz: well, or we know that china's national intelligence law specifically indicates, article vii as hay call it, which, quote, obligates all organizations and its citizens -- organizations, let's read that as companies -- and its citizens to support a system cooperate with national intelligence efforts in accordance with the law. they would be breaking their own country's law if they do somehow

refuse to cough up that information if and whenst the called upon. when it's called upon. >> i think that might be a fair reading. i don't know enough about the inner workings of that that to comment. hz liz okay. let's talk about the massive number of users here in the united states who actually have turned tiktoks into their primary income. we have profiled this woman named miss excel, and it's just unbelievable what she has been able to do. she lost her job during the, during the lockdowns, and her job had been to train people on shortcuts for microsoft excel. so she just took it to tiktok, and she makes seven figures now. what kind of risk do lawmakers take in annoying or pulling tiktok the out of here and a lot of people will then be left without income? >> yeah. you know, annoyance might be the right word. but i think to kind of conclude they'll be left without income

is a bit extreme. we've tracked the top creators on tiktok, and unsurprisingly of the top 20 post followed accounts, they're all cross-posting on instagram in their own short form video product reels, all 20 of them are. so it's not that there's no earnses available for them to, you know, find -- alternatives available for them. and i'd argue that instagram reels,book reels have been very effective at bring on and onboarding hose creators and giving them a broadcast channel. liz: it's rare to see both sides of the aisle coming together on something, but the biden administration has been demanding that anybody in china who has a stake in bytedance, the parent of tiktok, must divest of that or this thing's going to be banned. let's talk about the beneficiaries. met that, snap i would imagine. do you have a particular pick? -- meta. >> you know, personally i think i like meta, you know, a little bit more so because there's two sides of it. who benefits from the

engagement, you know, and is we're talking about nearly 3 trillion minutes a year that's up for grabs in that e scenario where a tiktok ban would go into effect. it's not a small amount of minutes or users. and i'd argue as far as the -- as far as the short form video product if that's what creators are embracing and building towards, reels offers perhaps the most comparable product, and we know that meta's invested heavily in their own algorithm trying to make it more engaging and predictive in terms of understanding what you'd like. from snapchat's perspective, they have spotlight which has been growing quite quickly. i think the fact that their demographic mix overlaps the most with tiktok's audience that i skews younger, so it's really a question of where do those eyeballs go. what we learned in india when tiktok was banned, these are the platforms that effectively benefited. a lot of snapchat's use user growth was driven by adoption of indian users of their short form

video product. liz: yeah. well, it's been quite interesting to see all developments and, of course, the united king come, canada, belgium, all government workers can no longer have the app on their phones. meta has been on just an incredible run, up 70% year to candidate. mark, it's good to see to you. thank you very much. >> thank you. liz: we are keeping an eye on the regionals. , you know, if we can pop them up right now, but i do want to bring up first republic. it's down about 3.9%, but comerica is down 8.5%. janet yellen, the treasury secretary, is expected to testify once again soon. so as the crow flies, the hearings on capitol hill are minutes from the federal reserve. its rate hike decision yesterday leading to all sorts of initially wildly bullish but also bearish trades in this final hour. our crack floor show team is up next to show you the biggest moves and the most worriliesome un-- worrisome ones.

we are watching every tick of this rally. dow jones industrials still clinging to the about 21 points, so the earlier 481-point gain. "the claman countdown" is back many in a minute. ♪ ♪ dad, we got this. we got this. we got this. we got this. we got this. yay! we got this. we got this! life is for living. we got this! let's partner for all of it. edward jones >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. my customer really relies on his car's advanced safety system. [alarm] >> instructor: veer right. [ringing] >> instructor: and slow down. >> tech: so when he got a cracked windshield, he turned to safelite.

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liz: breaking news, 16 minutes into a hearing where treasury secretary janet yellen is appearing, she came out and said that the federal emergency actions to back up silicon valley bank and signature bank customers could be deployed again president future, in the future, rather, quote, if necessary. now, many written testimony -- in written testimony before a house appropriations subcommittee, yellen said, quote, we have used important tools to the act quickly to

prevent contagion, and they are tools we could use again. all right. so pox market alert, the cow has now reversed once again. as we told you, it's popping back and forth above and below the flat line. it is down of points. -- down 6 points. the nasdaq up 79. it had been up 292. and the russell 2000 down 1. we now have 43 minutes left to the trade the, and still the wings of the market doves are getting clipped as the major averages give up gains. earlier the cow itself, the blue chips, had been up 481 points, again now down 19. tick by tick we're watching it go a bit lower here. the investors earlier, because of the early rally, you've got to figure they interpreted that chair jerome powell's commentary yesterday in the wake of pd fed's quarter9-point tightening of interest rates as a sign that rate hikes would soon to come to an end. that may or may not be true as

inflation here continues to bubble. but with let's pull out the stocks that are bubbling up. the geysers of the session, tech, hardware, software and semiconductors. still up about is 1.8%. ishares global telecom up 1.8%, and vanguard's info-tech which is the strongest sector of s&p majors right now up one full percentage point. but regionals are gasping. a lot of voices in the financial world though are trying to calm the situation. clearly, we just brought you the headlines from janet yellen. but citi group ceo jane frazier told the economic club of washington, d.c. odd the that regional banks are, quote, well capitalized, and fitch rating agency odd the said large french banks are resilient to current market stress. they have e liquidity that is sound, buffers are strong, and they are well positioned to absorb short-term negative impacts of higher interest rates. for now the broader market

doesn't seem to be too concerned at the moment. sure, the dow is down 71 right now, but let's see what our floor show team says. joining me now, our trader, teddy weisberg and bnp paris baa' chief economist. teddy doty, what happened? 40 minutes ago we were roaring ahead in the stock market, and hose the regions -- hose the regionals started to the fall again. >> well, that's right because there's still so much uncertainty out there. it's a very, very difficult environment for investors. the message is so mixeded, and behind the curtain with the financial issues with some of these regional banks, what's real, what isn't real, every day we have somebody else in a position of authority pontificating on what might or might not happen or what the government will or will not co, you can't blame the markets for being jittery because investors are jilt jittery.

liz: look at comerica now down 10%. regional wangs -- banks write something like 70% of commercial loans and a whole bunch of, obviously, homeowners all across america, some of these do not look very strong at all. in fact, they could be insolvent even as jay powell yesterday said that the silicon valley bank collapse was, quote, an outlier. how could this already be negatively working its way through the u.s. economy? >> right. well, we see deposits sloshing around the system, especially uninsured deposits. and if they're flowing out of smaller regional lenders, that really because create some balance sheet9 problems and really forces them to evolve, rapidly involve their business model because they have to now compete with the bigger players to reattract that deposit base. so that this squeezes the earnings outlook over the longer term, and then it leads to a rerating in the marketplace. and i think the that's what we're seeing here. it's kind of a broader macro picture, but in the shorter term

there's obviously a lot of sensetivity towards potential policy actions that will impact the level of insured toeses sits. we saw that with the headlines yesterday on yellen,ned today some additional headlines here talking about this deposit issue. how we deal with uninsured deposits is going to be a very significant factor in how this drama ultimately plays out. liz: well, one thing we know for sure, credit is already tightening, deadly. when i say that, for those who don't quite with understand that, banks and auto lenders when it comes to loans, mortgage lenders are going to be the highly resistant to just willy-nilly throw money out to people who need to borrow. so what then do you see as the better trade9 out there? >> well, i hate to the sound very boring again, but the best trade when you don't know what happened to do, liz, quite frankly the best thing to do is to push yourself away from the table, do nothing. unlike a year ago when doing nothing was defined of painful

because you -- kind of painful, now you have plenty of choices. you have money market funds, you have the treasury market where you can get 3.5 up to 5% and get paid for doing nothing -- liz: and let's put up the 10-year and the 2 the-year. those are good clips that the people can get when it comes to the yield. >> right. liz: we do have the 10-year at 3.9%. >> better than 0. liz: so you're still saying that. >> i'm saying it because it's just too hard here. i guess if you get lucky and it's nice that tech is doing well and outperforming because we need it another the well for the overall market to do well, but the problem for the market is there's no positive catalyst out there. the mixed messages, all these unknowns make the markets verying volatile the -- very volatile. you can get lucky, maybe you pick a bottom, but quite frankly, i think the smart thing to do is put your money in short-term vehicles like

treasuries. liz: carl, what areas like like they would hold up no matter what happens to lending? >> as we think about this and we're trying to understand this credit tightening that you're highlighting, we know it's intensifying but the question is how much and how fast, so we need to see kind of bank lending data, whether we get lending day from from the federal reserve today at 4:30 in the afternoon -- liz: okay, wait, wait, is that how much they lent over the past week? >> right. so that's a weekly lending -- liz: and we know last week was a cast. they lent hundreds of billions of collars -- >> and how much they're tapping these emergency lending if facilities. it tells you about the stress in the system. we know there's a problem for kind of the smaller regional banks, but as that money is flowing into the bigger banks which is why jane frazier's making comments like she did at that d.c. economics club forum. we can't say that everyone is uniformly kind of battening down the hatches, we need to get some

greater clarity on that as does the fed which is why their playing it very cautious in terms of whether they'll do additional right thenning or not. liz: dow, s&p, russell and the transports are in the red, the nasdaq is still up about 57. teddy, carl, thank you very much. now we're looking at gamestop. it is down 6%. what happened concern again, yesterday gamestop was a big winner. but now lower by about 6% after boffo gains yesterday. meme stock's founder, ryan can cohen his other company, chewy, is reporting earnings. a check on that stock next. with the dow jones industrials now down about 52 the points and really wildly good luck -- fluctuating depending on which second we're watching, you've got to stay with us. we are coming back in just a minute. don't go away. ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ the vehicles are all-electric. the feeling is all mercedes. the choice is all yours. see your dealer for exceptional offers today. liz: let's bring in a fox fox business alert, another regional bank is suddenly dropping that we immediate to tell you about. california-based preferred bank, ppbc, just hit session lows moments ago. session low was $53.50, it's barely above that the 53.78.

there is a volume spike in trading of this bank. it's basically got a market cap of under 800 million. it lends to both, yeah, it's about $772 million in market cap here. it lends to small and medium-sized businesses, entrepreneurs, real estate developers, investors, high net worth investors. so, listen, we're bringing you these headlines as they become available, and we're keeping an eye on all of the moves. including regeneron. regeneron has been a winner this session, moving higher by 5.7% as -- after its as a ma drug met all its targets in a late stage trial. the drug could be the first new copd treatment in more than a decade. chewy lower despite posting better than expected earnings. the online pet retailer is a falling 7% after reporting that the company's active customer base actually fell 1.2%

year-over-year. deutsche bank lowering its price target from $41 to 35. it's just a penny above 35 right now, and slashing its ratings to a hold from a buy. marvell technologies, we already showed it to you at the top,st the up 3.8%. the latest silicon valley company to announce job cuts. the chip giant will cut 4% of its global work force which equals out to be about 320 the jobs. its entire research and and development team in mainland china will be among the layoffs. but investors like it. accenture cutting 19,000 jobs or about 2.5% of its work force over the next 18 months as it looks to slash costs and streamline operations amid slower i.t. spending. accenture's stock the up 6.75%. the company also reporting second quarter revenue that beat estimates and said it spent $1.1 billion to repurchase 4.1 million shares of the stock the.

as it gets harder for main street to borrow money from the normal sources like regional banks, one fin-tech is set to benefit. affirm's ceo next on making money now from the buy now, pay later model. plus, he's going to weigh in on the report from hindenburg. plus, as the stock falls 15%, let's talk about this, on my everyone talks to liz podcast, we're going to update you on justin and taylor norris, they're the founders of a company that jay-z found so exciting that the rapper said i am in, and he backed it. it's called the lit method, and it brings the gym to the comfort of your home with a proprior -- proprietary machine that -- they're now in target. you can get it wherever you get

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only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor—you're an owner. we got this, babe. that means that your dreams are ours too. and our financial planning tools can help you reach them. that's the value of ownership. liz: in this very hour yesterday, fed chair jerome powell pointed out that the collapse this month of regionals silicon valley bank and signature bank could very well result in if tightening credit and lending conditions. that may already be happening because banks are turning very cautious about writing loans. that's the anecdotal evidence that we are getting. so as consumers face a fight to access credit more easily, the buy now, pay later space is stepping in. affirm is up 4% week to date. what because it need to do to have more gains and more customers? joining me now, the cofounder and ceo, max levchin. max, thank you for joining us.

and affirm is not a bank, let's just be clear about that. it is a fin-ec. tell me what your -- fin-tech. tell me what your numbers have looked like since the collapse of civil con valley bank where -- silicon valley bank where fear did spread across a lot of -- a lot of lenders? >> you know, fortunately for us, svb was not a partner. neither, of course, was signature and some of the other banks that have been called into question lately, so we've not seen any material change to our business from the fallout itself. the one thing that these troubles do highlight is these banks that on the safest loan in the world, mortgage-backed securities and united states treasuries, and that is exactly what got them into trouble as they failed to react to the rate changes that the fed telegraphed for months before acting. but as they did, they kept these very long-candidated securities that eventually came -- long-dated securities that

eventually came to buy them. affirm generates high-yield, very well managed credit that we sell to bank partners, insurance companies, lots of other capital market partners. and the demand for our product has absolutely gone up literally in the last days since kill son valley concern silicon valley bank collapsed. our partners said, hey, what you guys manufacture are amazing for these uncertain times, and we want more of it. liz: can i just ask, those partners that you have, you know, they are buying your loans, right? have you seen any slowdown this in that as they find a little bit of religion over the past, as you put it, several days? >> no. if anything, we have seen increase in command. liz: why do you think that is? >> they realize that in an uncertain world, short-term, well managed credit that yields great numberses and is managed by responsible patients keeps growing three times -- parties

keeps growing three times the commerce rate is a good is the -- asset to deploy their capital. liz: how do you view the fact that credit card department is now at a record high here in the united states -- credit card department? >> i think it's a range rain a highly explainable one -- a tragedy. consumers are still, they must turn to debt as prices increase, and their own future becomes a little more uncertain. average u.s. household revolves at about $6,000 and pays what ends up being quite substantial amounts of money as these numbers compound. buy now, pay later is a much better alternative. it's still just under 5% of commerce administration and we have a lot of work to do to help people not revolve and just use short-term, fixed, easy to understand, gimmick-free buy now, pay later loans. liz: there was a recent report highlighting your clip again city trends -- delinquency

trends have improve #, quote, notably. so that is a good sign, we certainly hope. but how do you, from seeing your numbers and your dust more -- customer numbers move higher, how do you assess the health of the consumer, and you then triangulate that into whether we have a soft landing, kind of a bumpy landing or an outright very tough recession? >> you know, if i could see the future -- [laughter] it would, i would do a lot of things right. i definitely cannot opine on the future. i can tell you as we spent the last 12 years honing in on a lot of really great proprietary the systems to assess the health of the consumer, the reason our delinquencies are down and it's not only a positive trend for us, it's also a sackerly positive trend -- starkly positive trend relative to the rest of the industry. most credit card banks are reporting increased delinquencies while we are managing our number to the target is both structural and

the advantage of affirm underwriting. structural because these are each transaction is approved individually. consumers come to the us and and ask, hey, can i borrow from affirm to buy anything from a workout equipment to the finance a large party, we get to the make a decision every time. and then on the other side of it, we've got really good underwriting. we look at all sorts of data, and we get smarter with every transaction. liz:ed good. we hope so. there are a lot of questions when people look at fin-techs these days, and right now squar, of course, founded by jack dorsey, it's now called block -- is under fire by hindenburg saying they played funny numbers here, saying there are more users than there actually are. you know, how, how does affirm which also, you know, block owns a buy now, pay later business,

afterpay. how does yours stack up against theirs? >> i think the questions that are being asked -- [audio difficulty] certainly not my place and even not my knowledge -- whatever, i'm not part of that company. i have my own to run are. but i think they ask fundamental questions about core values. and our core values are deeply enmeshed in everything we do. one of them is no fine print. we are transparent to a fault -- [inaudible] and i think that's, you know, every company makes the decisioy conscious choice -- liz: okay. [audio difficulty] liz: you know what? we're losing your audio just a bit, max. i apologize. but i think we got the gist of the fact that you say you are very pristine and clear about your numbers and lots of transparency. we will see you again, max. thank you so much.

>> thank you. liz: double line capital ceo jeffrey -- saying this time we might have to bail out the fed. his right-hand man, jeffrey sherman, is up next live to explain what that might really mean, and he'll el us about his two-pronged fixed income play that is actually very successful right now in a tough environment. that's next. dow holding on to 93 points of gains right now. we are coming right back. ♪ ♪

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♪. liz: all right. so for now the markets are in the green. the dow is up 169 but we are looking at first republic bank which is still struggling. it is down about 5 1/2%. could a former treasury secretary be a buyer now for the troubled bank? charlie gasparino has some breaking news. >> you remember during the 2008 financial crisis steve mnuchin made a pretty good amount of money buying indymac, one of the banks that was troubled. put together private equity firms to buy it. keep that in mind as i report

this out. as we've been reporting exclusively here, breaking news about this, jamie dimon and jpmorgan bankers are looking for rescue plan for first republic. they think that could be a domino that sets up a bigger banking implosion than what we have now. from what i understand they're calling it internally as a club deal. getting many people involved with capital to stablize it. that is one of the things on the stable, stablize the place. remember, they have downgrades, loans that are due, investors are leaving. stablize with the club deal. looking for someone overseas to put money in this. who knows, maybe warren buffett. liz: this small california based bank -- >> not that small. it is $200 billion. liz: first republic? it has a market cap of 2.3 billion. >> this is now. that is now. was many multiples of that last

week. it was 30-dollar stock. liz: but isn't the now matter. >> it had assets of 200 billion. liz: isn't it insolvent? >> i don't want to say that because i don't want to cause a run on the bank. it has got issues. you know that downgrades keep coming. they're looking for capital to be put in there. looking to stablize. then you got to sell it. that all could happen in week. that is what they're looking, who are potential people, i'm trying to get my hands around who could be part of this club deal. clearly every bank could be part of the club deal. we understand private equity could be part of the club deal. apollo they're not involved but maybe blackstone. i hear that steve mnuchin could be part of the -- liz: former treasury secretary under president donald trump. >> liberty strategic capital. that's it, he could be part of the club deal i understand by sources close to the matter. his name, he is definitely

showed from what i understand some interest. whether he does it or not i can't tell you. i put two calls into him. one to his long-time personal pr guy, tony sayeg who i believe worked with him at treasury. i put a call, his pr guy at liberty strategic. neither have gotten back at me. they got my emails. i know this. liz: this backdrop there are no bidders even after days and days for first republic. >> nobody will bid on this i'm told you without a government backstop. you can't value the loan portfolio. they lent out to vcs, commercial real estate under water. that is happening now. the vc community particularly tech taken a hit. commercial real estate has taken a hit. liz: vornado one of the laggards. >> how do you value something,

how do you sell it? they need to stablize, fix the business model. do it sooner rather than later. that's the plan. they're looking for people, the name we hear that is one of it, would be a marquee name, former treasury secretary steve mnuchin. at least they don't deny. liz: charlie is not sleeping? >> how can you tell? that my voice is going is how you can tell. liz: six minutes before the closing bell. we started the hour in the red. still up 146 points for the dow treasury yields dropped significantly to a flight to quality since so con valley banks collapsed could be attributed to owning too many longer term duration treasurys which were not yielding much at all back at the time silicon valley bank had bought them. why is the king kong of the bond

world lengthening the duration of its own treasury portfolio? double lines chief investment officer jeffrey sherman joins me now with that answer. and your reaction first, jeffrey, we're about half an hour away from the federal reserve releasing the latest numbers, called 4-41. every thursday 430 p.m. eastern we hear what the fed lend out to banks showing up we need it. for the week of march 16th, it was $300 billion. there was so much fear. what do you think about that? what are you expecting and why are you going into longer-term treasurys? >> the h-41 report is something you don't hear referenced very often. liz: right. >> glad we could be hear to talk about it today, liz. thanks for that. liz: sure. >> ultimately this shows the name of the game stems down to one word, hearing your previous interview it is all about liquidity right now and what we're talking about the in

banking system really trying to shore up liquidity at this point. so the fed had to expand its balance sheet in order to get as jay powell called yesterday, something hopes to be temporary financing of the market and there is more stress on the banks today and i think what really catalyzed some of the rally we saw today was comments from former treasury secretary, chairman of the reserve, janet yellen. now treasury secretary. liz: exactly. >> now treasury secretary. this idea that the fed and treasury are not really talking to each other, can't coordinate their messaging has rattled the market once again. so what this shows how fragile the system is right now as really, again this is a banking crisis. it is a different crisis that when we got 13 or 14 years ago because as you mentioned this is really, what, assets money good has assets, prices are lower

because of repricing interest rates. this is not as much of a credit concern. what you have is mismatch of depositors. essentially the other side of the equation which is their asset base. so ultimately what the reason that we had been buying duration is that we were getting all of the signals of a classic recession. we're starting to materialize -- liz: can i ask you 15 year 30 year what duration? >> so the duration we've been buy something a split between the 10-year and the 30-year parts of the curve. 15 is not just as liquid, nor is the 20 as well. what we've been able to do, by doing that it is not just because we want to make an outright trade on the treasury market. it also allows us to stay comfortable with some of the credit risk we own. the idea not to look at it in a vacuum, say you just want to buy duration at these levels. it can act as ballast, offset to other parts of your bond portfolio, more importantly to

other parts of your portfolio, equities and priority investments people own today. from our perspective there has been a lot of value there and really that has been realized over the last couple weeks and so if you see what the crisis has created as of late it's shown ability of duration cannot be a detriment to your portfolio last year but something beneficial to your portfolio today. liz: well, you know difference between salad and garbage is timing. right now you have salad with a lot of dressing on it and it is working. jeff, what do you expect for the next fed move. we have 40 seconds left to be able to talk about this. fed funds futures are indicating chance of 25 basis-point hike for the may meeting is dropping? >> yeah. i think it is practically off the table. we'll see some more inflation data. we'll get jobs reports as well between now and then that will really likely dictate the pace but at this stage we believe the fed is done with their hiking

campaign. again, with some of the jitters out there in the market i'm not convinced they need to cut in the near term but i think the pause is most likely at this point. liz: okay. >> the reason the fed did hike was the market was pricing that. and again you can see how nervous market is with pricing. the fact they're removing that from the table it is time to move on. liz: jeff, we love this thank you for opening window into all things treasurys and bonds. thank you so much. [closing bell rings] liz: dow, nasdaq with gains. russell lower. jim farley tomorrow with us on electric -- ♪ larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. all right, last few days, all right last couple weeks actually all eyes are focused on a potential banking crisis and the fed's interest rate hiking and wobbly stock market. when it comes to politics, the potential donald trump