consumer cellular. ♪. stuart: honestly i haven't got a clue about this one, how many items are in the metropolitan museum of art collection? i have no clue. are you going to guess, ash? >> i'm going to guess. i will go with the most, 2.5 million, number four. stuart: i will do the same, go with 2 1/2 million. 1 1/2 million. still a very large number. 1 1/2 million. thanks, ash. all good stuff. that's it for "varney & company." "coast to coast" starts now. neil: the good news on banks, well they're looking good today. the bad news on banks because of everything they went through it could be too little to late. to hear minneapolis fed president neel kashkari this increased the economy falling back. he actually used the word

recession. we're on top of the good, the bad, everything in between, with former congressional budget director douglas holtz-eakin on the fallout if kashkari is right. the fallout on the debt negotiations, risk pushing the debt and economy to the brink. welcome, everybody, i'm neil cavuto. busy, busy market day for you. get what is behind that. a lot of green behind carner of wall and broad. rescue for silicon valley bank and now talk maybe things are stablizing but i guess a lot of your fed buddies, edward lawrence are not all on the same page on this, are they. >> reporter: not on same page with the economy itself. neel kashkari is a voting member this year to set monetary policy. this is a big deal that the bank failures could move us closer to recession. then he added this. listen. >> on one hand such strains

could bring down inflation so we have to do less work with the federal funds rate to bring the economy into balance but right now it's unclear how much of an imprint these banking stresses will have on the economy but it is something to watch very carefully. >> reporter: so the uncertainly remains for the banking system, the over all economy. for citizens bank, meanwhile, buying silicon valley bank for $72 billion. that is a discount that triggers a 20 billion-dollar hit to the fdic insurance which covers insured, uninsured depositors at the banks. fed chairman jay powell said the failures at banks will not spread to banks specializing in commercial real estate for example, as that market softens. >> the banking system is strong, it is sound, it is resilient, it is well-capitalized and i really don't see that as at all analogous to this. >> reporter: message from the fed chairman, nothing to see here, everything is doing well.

the first republic bank got $70 billion infused by the banking industry and, neil, since the first two banks have failed and industry stepped in as well as treasury department and federal reserve no other banks so far have failed. back to you. neil: well-reported, my friend, edward lawrence on that. to douglas holtz-eakin, former director of the congressional budget office. doug, this kind of language we're hearing typical of those in federal reserve, those in power in washington, the banking system is sound, the underpinnings are good, i get that but do you have any worries especially silicon valley bank goes off for a song, you could argue that? first republic as well, you know, propped up for a song? even the credit suisse situation with ubs, ubs got that not only on the cheap but almost for free. so you could start saying you know, rescues those these might be, successful mergers to avoid

a panic though they might be, they are reminding you they're kind of built on a bunch of matchsticks, aren't they? >> yeah, wells certainly you hope that these are isolated events. that we're now seeing something that you should see in every industry, when firms fail, other firms are there to take that and reuse that capital and use it more productively. the real question, neil, is there something more systemic out there? we saw a lot of demand for discount window borrowing this new term lending facility the fed put out. that is an indicator other banks are at least nervous having their depositors show up to demand their cash. that's the piece that is worth watching. if that doesn't transpire, if this is the end of troubles in the u.s. banking system i think on balance we come through with the same risk of recession we had before. i mean it is true banks will be more cautious at interest rate

they will make credit less available but it is also true interest rates have come down. we have given up six months of fed tightening since the banking turbulence and so on balance financial conditions look about the same and if you thought there was going to be recess shun before you probably should think that. if you thought the fed would engineer a soft landing they may be able to do that i haven't seen any scar energy the real economy yet but it is still worth watching the banking sector. neil: we're watching where we stand own the debt ceiling impasse here. they will not raise it until they get concession. >> right. neil: republicans will talk to influential republican congress on that part but is this bank volatility calmer today to your point adding any kind of speed to these talks or how would you describe it? >> i haven't seen any discernible change in sort of the urgency surrounding getting the debt ceiling addressed. you know quite frankly, neil, it

is something that has to happen and i leave it to the politicians who are elected to deal with this to figure out how but politics is supposed to be getting what has to happen done and we're not seeing any real progress on that front. so i hope more work goes into this from the white house and congressional end very soon. if we, you know, face additional bank volatility, a debt limit crisis would be the last thing we need. we have to fund the government at the end of the year. we know that is always a difficult task in recent years so there is a lot of policy risk coming out of washington that would layer on top of these underlying banking woes if they prove to be more systemic. that is not a combination we need at this point. neil: this is not something that will immediately take up. there was some confusion out of the treasury secretary last week talking about banks, extending more generous deposit guaranties. >> right. neil: she kind of tried to let people that we'll take this up on case-by-case basis.

i think that is how it was finally concluded. everyone is confused. does that mean the government will be there ultimate backstop to raise minimums should there be a run for these banks, that doesn't seem to be as much of a risk this week as it was last week, what do you think? >> it was certainly the case the dodd-frank law made it necessary for congress to act to get coverage of all the deposits. the only way they got around that to tee clear silicon valley bank a systematically important bank which is was not, is not, and used the loophole. that raises the specter using the loophole in any circumstance. there is nothing the secretary has said given anyone firm guidance, under when, under what circumstances they will use these extraordinary powers. that is exactly the opposite what dodd-frank was supposed to accomplish t was supposed to tie hands of regulators, maybe them follow a playbook in the crisis so everyone would knew what would happen, they could manage

their affairs accordingly. they would have living wills told us how to wind down large banks if necessary. we're worlds away from what the intent was. we're back to a world where no financial market participant knows exactly what the government will do next and that is not a great place to be. neil: that is interesting, that is not a great place to be, you're right about that douglas holtz-eakin, great to see you again. >> thank you. neil: meantime this fellow has become with the new congress one of these galvanizing figures that gets a lot of attention, a iconic figure, he is pretty modest, i'm sure he doesn't say that about himself. his name is chip roy, texas republican congressman, house budget committee, house judiciary committee, house rules committee, very influential on all these committees. congressman, great to have you. >> great to be on, neil, hope you're doing well. neil: i am, sir. get an update, obviously you have the debt ceiling. i don't know when we hit the brink or whatever but you've got

some ideas. republicans have pushed you don't want to raise the ceiling unless you address some spending problems now. where are we on that? >> i was just listening to doug. he is, friend a long time. i disagree with this concept of washington, well, we have something we have to do so you got to get it done no matter what. that is the problem. that is why where we are. we've been empowering the executive branch for too long to do what he exactly describe, make unilateral decisions without congressional approval. easy money, free money, given to the american people with five trillion of covid money thrown out in the middle of it. we put gasoline on fire, got exactly what we got, runaway inflation. the fed is jacking up interest rates and pumping up inflation fast. we have a problem. staring down the barrel of a stagflation. you talked about a possible recession while we have inflation going up and high. so what is our job in

washington? our job is actually to stop the madness. with he put forward a plan maybe, just maybe we live on pre-covid level spending holding the defense where it needs to be to go challenge china, check putin and have a strong place in the globe, zero in, focus long term what we need to do on mandatory spending but step one is stop spending money we don't have and return those bureaucratic, that bureaucratic state to pre-covid levels. we think that is a responsible step. other thing you have to do, got -- [inaudible]. you talk about this. you cannot self this crisis if we don't get economic growth and biden is look at .6% growth. we need 3, 3 1/2 4% under reagan and clinton. neil: meantime to your point the beginning of your remarks, congressman, you talked about inflation and all the problems therein yet i notice in some of your plans, god bless you you're putting them out, people can

disagree with your approach, at least you're giving ideas, freezing discretionary spending at these levels for next 10 years. in inflationary environment that is actually in real terms cutting those levels, that by the 10th year, are dramatically hacked. i know what the goal is there but is it realistic? >> i think it is realistic. look again all we're talking about taking non-defense discretionary spending go to pre-covid levels, allow for 1%ish growth over 10 years that will not be what it is in five years. we need to do it for the next two years, reset the table, reset the baseline and frankly, this is the important part, neil, constrain leviathan. the problem we've got for economic growth is the bureaucracy and regulators getting in the way. free up energy, free up all of the american people. get rid of the nepa constraints that are stop stopping our ability to create growth at

3 1/2, 4% levels we need to grow out of this massive debt situation. you know, and i know we talk about the world threats, china, russia, middle east, cartels in the western hemisphere, we're now at debt levels that were at world war ii. people talk like it is preworld war ii. we're after world war ii in terms of relative amount of debt-to-gdp we can't sustain that. that is driving inflation, causing weakness. causing doubt. let's get sanity. return to normalcy and common sense. neil: people can argue with some of the particulars. some of them you raise your eyebrows, look at individual ones and all of this but the president's ideas is to add taxes to the mix is something i know not at all a starter for democrats, or for republicans i should say. some of your spending freezing levels will be a nonstarter for democrats. i wonder, congressman, where you see this going and whether the two sides will push this to

potential default? >> well, look, as you know we're not going to default. the question here will be whether president biden chooses to kind of play roulette with the american economy. we're putting out already, we're leaning into this, we think we have a plan that would work. neil: he would plame you, wouldn't he? not you specifically. you were adamant about the spending cuts. he wouldn't agree to them. so he is not going to accept that. that means we get to that level of the debt ceiling, point of no return. we do default, how do we avoid that? >> well we avoid that by the president doing what he said he would do, sit down with us and have a conversation. he is staying over here, yeah, i'm not going to do anything. we'll have a clean debt ceiling increase. that is not going to happen. americans didn't send us to

washington to keep doing the same thing. neil: i rudely interrupt you to make a point. in 2011 with barack obama there was an agreement, go ahead raise the debt ceiling, address some of this spending that republicans were pushing at the time. it was kind of a way have each side get a little bit what they wanted. now in the middle of all of that, you had s&p, the ratings agencydown frayeded our debt any -- downgrading our debt saying essentially the process was just a sham. what if something like that happens? >> that would be up to s&p. look what happened after that? of course american bonds and ratings rebounded after that. the fact is no one is going to bring us to the brink who is not being joe biden. he is president of the united states. he is the one who has to decide how we're going to proceed here. we're putting forward credible spending restraint of one step of many that needs to occur for the american people to have strength and believe in the economy. our job here is not to do the same ol.

neil, we can't keep doing it. we're $32 trillion in debt. we can't keep spending money we don't have. the american bureaucracy is constraining american product activity. you and i everybody knows we have the responsibility to stop raising the credit card limit without making changes. the only one who is pushing that is joe biden and handful of leftist democrats who are more interested in pushing a woke radical dei agenda than work with us in the house to constrain the. neil: my producer will holler at me, you endorsed accept sanity assuming he will run. you heard what president trump is saying about desantis and a lot of colorful language to go with it. do you think donald trump is hurting the party? >> look i've known ron desantis for about a decade. he is a good man. i support ron desantis what he did in florida, winning million 1/2 votes.

62% of hispanic voters. female voters. moving economy in florida. america wants a new generation of leaders. america recognizes it is time to get past the baby boomers with all respect to my parents generation. we need new leadership to have someone carry us forward. you don't take shots at someone you're not worried about. i think ron desantis offers good direction for the country. neil: do you think those are cheap shots by president trump? >> the the will run the campaign he will run. governor desantis will run the campaign he will. that is to play out over the next year. i'm proud to say alongside ron desantis. neil: that was excellent answer. it was northern answer, but a great nonanswer. >> this is answer my respect forewhat governor desantis has done. governor desantis last night hosted host bun of veterans, men and women in uniform at governor's

mansion. he is leading florida. that is what the american people want to see. neil: got it, congressman. great catching up with you. thank you for your time. >> go ahead bless, neil. neil: as he was speaking dow up 183 points. maybe worries about the debt ceiling, concerns and everything else, concerns we're running up against the deadline, maybe they're calming a little bit. maybe he had something to do with it. we shall see. more after this mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones.

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>> i agree there are data privacy issues with all social media companies but what we know about tiktok and what's happening in china and their relationship with the chinese communist party i would absolutely support a ban on tiktok. neil: all right. that was the utah governor talking with stuart varney. again, pushing a ban on tiktok. remember, a lot of governors as with the case of pierre trudeau in canada, speaking for canadian government, they talk about taking tiktok off government devices. it is quite another matter to get them off private devices, average americans walking around, mostly young people who love tiktok. where is this going? grady trimble has more from capitol hill. >> reporter: i do think the hearing with the tiktok ceo moved a lot of lawmakers toward the direction of an outright ban

of the app but not everyone supports that particularly congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez coming out against a ban. >> do i believe tiktok should be banned? no. why should tiktok not be banned? first of all i think it is important to discuss how unprecedented of a move this would be. the united states has never before banned a social media company from existence, from rating in our borders. >> reporter: that's part of the progressive lawmakers first-of tiktok video which she posted over the weekend after that fiery hearing. she didn't mention that tiktok's chinese parent company bytedance funnel ad six figure contribution to the non-profit aligned with the congressional hispanic profit which she is a member but aoc argued for a comprehensive data privacy law rather than a ban and there is actually some common ground there with republicans. >> i just think that it is so important that we focus broadly in a bipartisan way on a

national data security privacy legislation because if we don't, we are literally giving away the farm. the ccp will undermine us any point in time. we have to fight back and it starts with tiktok. >> reporter: house speaker kevin mccarthy tweeted over the weekend that the house will take uptick tock legislation to protect americans from the chinese communist party. there are bills from house and senate sides, will ban tiktok or allow president biden to ban tiktok or force a sale. it is not exactly clear which proposal speaker mccarthy is referring to, if any of the ones already been proposed. neil? neil: thank you, my friend. grady trimble on capitol hill with that. you know who was back in town right now in china? jack ma. you remember him of alibaba fame, their version of yahoo! if you will in the old great days? but the government was cracking down on entrepeneurs who simply

gotten too big for their britches so to speak. the government likes to remind success stories we control things here, not you. i don't know what the relationship of jack ma with the government, controlling government but i am sure he could give a word or two with folks that run bytedance, the chinese controlled entity controls and owns tiktok. rebeccah heinrich, hudson institute senior fellow. they have a lot of these entrepeneurs, rebecca, on a very, have he short tight leash and they don't really share much which maybe accounted for the embarrassing pinata position of tiktok ceo was in last week on capitol hill but what do you make of the chinese government connection with these and other companies that their ceos can only stray so far? >> first of all i think what the chinese government to believe about jack ma's return there is a thawing between the ccp and

private sector in china. it isn't really a private sector. it is controlled by the chinese communist party that is the symbolism they want us to believe. i don't believe it. if you remember what jack ma got in trouble for a couple years ago he made the correct point that essential hi chinese banks treated companies like, he used the word like pawn shops or something that was pejorative, that was offensive, insulting to the chinese communist party and that is what caused him to leave the country. i am frankly he is alive. he was living safely in china and japan but now he is back. we'll see what that means for him. i believe he is under a very tight watch and probably not speaking truly on behalf of his own ideas and thoughts at this point in time, neil. neil: do you think the government is capable? jack ma is a smart guy. he is no dummy. jack ma, the ceo is a

engineering genius. only so much the government might say. they might say at face value we separated our cord from the bytedance and in the case of tiktok not know that the government might have promised that, isn't delivering that. that is half-full, maybe naive version of these events. any way, very clear to me at least, you're the expert, that china still runs the show? >> china runs the show. remember about all of the censorship that is going on inside of china. china is not a business-friendly economy. i know that they are still trying to make it appear that way but it is not truly a free market. there is all kinds of censorship. you don't have all the social media apps you see in the united states inside of china. you don't have freedom of speech, you don't have freedom of expression. even in the medical field where you want doctors to conduct research and have breaking news about their research that they're conducting all of that gets, that gets quieted is controlled by the government. this is not a place that is

really friendly for innovation. and so, i find it very hard to believe that any of these brilliant men don't really know what is going on. i think we all can see what is going own here over here in the united states. the a at this point they're makg calculations security calculations profits for their own families. this is sad to see this play out. i know we're talking about tim cook here in a minute but that is another story. neil: his relationship with that country. real quickly, though, do you get a sense, a lot of young people in this country are okay tiktok is spying on them because they have a jaded cynical view all social media companies do, china is a little bit different, they generally don't play nice, having said that where do you think this goes? >> it is very different because tiktok is actually controlled by a malicious country that wants to do harm to the united states and the american people. not just that hoovering up data.

they're using it in a malicious way. i don't think we even fully understand the full extent what they're doing with the data on profiles of american people they're keeping. that is why i'm concerned when you have a guy like tim cook, going to try to make greater gains in china. he likes to brag, guys like him brag about high esg lefts, environmentally friendly they are, how great humanitarians they are, but turn a blind eye to the humanitarian problems in china, genocide going on, total absence of free speech and expression and mistreatment of the chinese people. i'm hopeful the american people can learn more about this all polling shows, neil, bipartisan, republicans, democrats understand that china's threat. we don't want our country to be more like china. we want to be, we want to live the life we want to live the american way. so i think it will take a lot more education so people don't feel so naive what china can actually do with their personal date takes there is always a fear that americans then, with

apple, would be facing the prospect of higher priced smartphones if they're not high enough if they were to bolt from china. that is not giving the american people nearly enough credit but, rebecca, i always learn something. thank you very much. good seeing you again. >> good to see you, neil. neil: meantime at the corner of wall and broad, the dow continues to sprint ahead. so too technology stocks. every sector, i believe nine of the 11 s&p 500 sectors last i looked doing nicely. we still have 3 1/2 hours to go, as we wind town, a rocky, bumpy, crazy month of march. stay with us. you're watching fox business. yeah. we get to stay here all weekend! when you stay at a vrbo... i call doing the door code! ...the host doesn't stay with you. it looks exactly like the picture. because without privacy in your vacation home... it's a full log cabin guys. ...it isn't really a vacation...

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♪. neil: let's take a quick peek what we have going on here. you know we were in a lot worse shape if you think about where we were last week for a while with the volatility in the banking sector and everything else. things have stablized a little

bit here now we got word that first citizens will buy most of silicon valley bank. this is the way these kind of things have been playing out right now, whether it's you know, across the pond with ubs buying out credit suisse for a song or some of the other major banks propping up and supporting cash lines, rescues, for first republic and other banks. having said all of that, first republic is back on a tear. pack west, some bank etfs. i didn't think there were so many bank etfs, exchange traded funds. last i checked they were up anywhere from four to 8%. the draw right now, that justified. we have the public ventures investments chief strategist, all around public smart guy. lou, i like to time these with a egg timer, sentiment can change as soon as we get word someone

else is under cash duress. what do you think is happening? >> no, there is restoration of confidence this monday, but you bring up a good point what about next monday? should we have sunday scaries worried about another collapse? i think coast is not clear, record pre-covid levels of funds in the money market funds. that even though the they rally on silicon valley bank assets getting bought. they're not not ready to money back to work in the market aggressively. it has been a wild and crazy march. not much to be optimistic about and i think everyone is waiting for another shoe to drop. >> yeah. you know sometimes when you hear these institutions are bought for a song, at least on the cheap that is still not sitting well with a lot of credit suisse workers who feel they're stuck, you know, in a takeover that

they call more take-under. we see a lot. we have seen this, lou, you know better than i, a slowdown of number of depositors migrating to big money center banks, i'm into the saying it slowed to a trickle but it was not going at the pace it was last week. what do you read into that? >> no, i think that is a key sign. in this day and age money could move a lot quicker than 2007, 2008 financial crisis. i think that is the key metric. is everyone moving, like $15 billion went into bank of america overnight and immediate aftermath of silicon valley bank. you want to see, there was psychology of the markets. we can track that by movement in cash. you're absolutely right. seeing a slowdown in movement away from big banks, maybe restoration of confidence, keeping deposits in smaller regional banks, it's good sign. we need that. when there is crisis of confidence it is contagious. i think we're on the flipside.

you're starting to restore it. markets can get back to focusing on fundamentals. i would say if people look for strength in the market look at semiconductors, sox philadelphia semiconductor index up 25% year-to-date. this is standout performer flying under the radar. this makes sense. no mat customer tech you talk about you require chips a trillion chips are sold each year for artificial intelligence, electric vehicles, mobile phones that is one performance you can rely on standing up in this market. neil: not all the big names hiccupping of late, amazons, alphabets, what have you, i'm wondering what that index is really telling us? who are the ones you're betting on? you liken it in the aggregate. >> i can't give everyone's individual invitation. semiconductor space play pick and shovels.

they are dealing with tech trends across, not just amazon or google. nxpi semiconductor great example trading 15 times earnings compared to other semis well north of that. everyone loves nvidia which is trading at nose bleed valuations it is not really a great play on a.i. which i shared before. another with a great play, atamra, everyone says moore's law is dead but they extend the performance of existing fabs by 20, 30%. gives you an upgrade. there are other names in the semiconductor space, equipment manufacturers, that make sense, that the world is it lacking at. these companies will make the equipment that make the chips that go into all matters of the market. neil: step back and look like the american mood, we've been seeing a lot of polls of late. there was focus on one poll saying parents were kind of bummed out their kids probably

won't enjoy the same lifestyle they did or do now and still another poll out this week, that shows, you know, americans are not so sanguine on the prospects for this country, and even things they used to admire about this country. they still like money. there is that, but another they're in this funk. i'm wondering, you're in florida right now where restaurants are packed. no one appears to be in a funk to me but how do you assess the consumer right now? >> yeah, i mean look i think if you look at the last retail sales report, one of the strongest categories was bars and restaurants, particularly in florida, right? everyone is out enjoying it. look at leisure, travel. i fly in the airport every week. it is booming. so the, i think the mood doesn't always match reality with consumers. what stood out to me in the recent polls, you said only category that went up valuing of money but ironically, valuing hard work went down. it is like, those two go hand in hand.

if you don't work hard you will not have money. everyone, these generations are devaluing hard work. it doesn't surprise me they're starting to worry about money more. i think look, what is also stands out, there is precipitous decline, right, from the 1998 reads. i don't think this is continuum. i think it is more of a pendulum. we're getting to the extreme where we are looking, we're too divisive politically. we're too divisive as americans. it has to swing back. we've seen it before. i'm in my mid 40s. i remember growing up it was okay to have conversations with people from the other political party you completely disagree with. now a now people don't want that conversation. i think pendulum swings back. people are starting to make a change. i have three kids, i'm hoping, optimistic that the future will be much better for them, not worse. neil: you're a lot younger than i am, i already told my kids you and my mother are keeping

everything. you're not getting anything. >> i told them the same thing. neil: momentarily bummed but momentarily. they will get over it. thank you, my friend. lou basenese talking about florida and update from bob iger indicating employees some will go, more than just some, 7,000 slated for layoffs. not going into all the particulars here. that was well-telegraphed that he said the company had to do some downsizing this might be the first sign it is on. meantime taking you to jackie deangelis what is planned on "the big money show" in 20 minutes. jackie: we have big monday coming up. we're talking about first citizens buying svgb is the banking crisis contained? and swifties are going to court all at the top of the hour. more "coast to coast" after this

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♪. neil: all right. all began with the effort on part of benjamin netanyahu to democratize as he put it the judicial civil. things are not where they are in this country t spun way out of control. he dial himself back as protests heat up. trey yingst following all of this out of jerusalem. how are things now? report report israeli society is at a tipping point. flight from the country's main airport are canceled. banks are closed and there is currently a general labor strike underway. what we saw last night in the streets of tel aviv and jerusalem was unprecedented. police clashing with demonstrators, using water cannons to disperse crowds. all of this after prime minister benjamin netanyahu fired his defense minister in an attempt to clear a support path to proposed judicial reforms that would destroy the israeli system of checks and balances. here is a look at what the demonstrations were like today. [shouting]

>> reporter: thousands of people have taken to the streets of jerusalem outside the israeli knesset the country's parliament to oppose judicial reforms. overnight benjamin netanyahu fired the country's defense minister leading to clashes across the country. to my right, police are on horseback getting ready to control this crowd. security officials warn of fracture in israeli society, could ultimately lead to a deteriorating security situation. those security concerns that stand out among these protests. you can hear the sirens behind me as demonstrations are continuing in the city of jerusalem. hundreds of israeli reservists declined to participate in training as way to speak out against bills. included are elite units, pilots would be needed if a broader conflict erupts in the region. with ongoing tension in the west bank and gaza, with threats from lebanon and iran this is critical situation. we understand that according to the prime minister's office,

prime minister benjamin netanyahu is set to address the israeli public in about 20 minutes. neil? neil: trey, thank you for that. trey yingst in jerusalem here. wee watching wait outside lower manhattan courthouse. this is the whole case of donald trump whether he would be indicted on this whole issue with stormy daniels, whether some years back he had paid her off, not talk about sexual encounter that had happened years earlier. this was at the time of the 2016 presidential campaign. he did mention her by name or called her a name at a big rally in wake toe, texas, over the weekend but he says the chris increasingly looks to him has been dropped. has it? we're on it after this the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day... a "let's dig in" day... mm. ...a "chow down" day... a "take a big bite" day...

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♪. neil: all right. you know the one thing i love any always love embarrassing tom dupree on this show. i love having him on. he cuts through the politics. he looks at the legal foundation of a case. he is very smart about it, but doesn't get caught up in some craziness others do. i probably cursed him with the compliment. former deputy assistant attorney general. always having you.

you're always patient where i'm going on this. because i don't know where this alvin bragg investigation or so-called indictment is ready to go now? it appears maybe not. but what are you hearing? >> yeah. neil, that makes two of us. i'm not exactly sure where the d.a. is going. by all indications he wrapped this thing up last week in terms of his presentation to the grand jury. called his final witness. he was presumably ready to ask for indictment. that doesn't seem to be the case. we're hearing he is bringing back more witnesses to testify before the grand jury. which to me says he saw there was some sort of a gap in his evidence, some sort of a failure of proof that he needed to correct before he finally submitted his case to the grand jury. tells me something is going on behind the scenes. that it is not quite going according to plan. neil: what do you need to get a grand jury indictment regardless whether he gets additional witness he is presumably waiting on to bolster his case? what do you need to get this to

move forward from his office? >> you just need to persuade the grand jury more likely than not a crime has been committed but it's very different process from the normal trial -- neil: is it majority of the grand jury? is it majority of the grand jury, how does it work? >> typically you want to move ahead with unanimity. there are ways prosecutors can get indictments short of going through the grand jury process. if in this case if the grand jury refutes to indict president trump i can't imagine that would be end of it. if that is what is happening, the grand jury is resisting the prosecutor's suggestions, no criminal charges are warranted i think that is the end of the road for the new york d.a. neil: can the staff get a prosecutor to back off, if the staff, this is media reports, they could be very, very wrong, boss, we don't think we have enough to go on here? i don't know if you're reading the headlines, boss, this is looking like it is backfiring.

we don't look good, you don't look good, drop it, what kind of pressure is there when that happens? >> absolutely that can be some of the strongest pressure there is. if d.a.'s trusted lieutenants are pulling him aside, sitting him down, saying boss, don't move forward with this, that is very difficult to resist that could be part of what is going on here. we're hearing reports about dissension and disagreement in the d.a.'s office. we're hearing even liberal commentators are saying this is extraordinarily weak case. what is puzzling me, neil, if this is view of bragg's lieutenants why didn't they raise their concerns further? why did they let the get upset up so far with security barricades before the courthouse in new york before they started to pump the brakes? this is a decision they should have made months ago. neil: we often think the president, former president could dodge the stormy daniels'

case if that could be but there are other cases backing up like planes at laguardia. georgia, revoked if you will, classified documents stuff, there are plenty of other more potent cases pending, aren't there? >> i think there are. in my view at least the new york case is the absolute weakest of the bunch. which makes it especially peculiar the one at least now that is at the front of the queue. i think that is the reason why a lot of people who opponents of former president trump, basically saying what is this new york d.a. doing? why is he getting so far out in front? the georgia prosecutor ready to bring charges. special counsel in washington every day is bringing more and more witnesses before his grand jury. why is the one case that will grab headlines in the national spotlight, the weakest case in the bunch. neil: tom, thank you very, very

much. dow up 217 points. we'll have more after this.

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with cancer will die. those children deserve so much better. the thing we are called to do is to make sure that those children are surrounded by people who know how to provide the very best care possible. neil: want to the go to jackie dedo ang lis, i'm so sorry i threw to you early and incorrectly, it was my staff's fault. they're totally to blame -- jackie: you caught me a little off guard, but we are back on track, neil. neil: it was me, it was me, i gotta admit that, because heir not talking to me now. brian: oh, boy. [laughter] jackie: we have a great staff. neil: it's going on a long d