the fed's funding expectations especially those that are far out in the future. but here's the thing, guys, the fed does its modeling way out into the future as well, often shaping policy around those assumptions. so the fed should not bask in the glow of their growing fame because they have enormous power, in fact, they've got a lot more power than any actor or athlete out there, but this fame can turn to inthat my quickly -- in fahmy quickly. if they can't see the trindz that they're doing are creating unnecessary pain, i really worry about this. i'm not sure if the fed is too arrogant, using the wrong playbook, but there won't be any questions if they start demanding the removal of brown m&m ifs from their hotel rooms. the bottom line, be a rock star but with that comes responsibility, liz claman. liz: yes. a rock star. yes, we want the green m&ms, and they have to be at a frozen temperature. charles: exactly. liz: that's on my rider form.

folks, we have stocks that are once e again same as yesterday at this very moment, mixed, as investors wait with bathed breath for -- baited breath. the big consumer number that could provide the next catalyst to give the market direction. we are now just over 17 hours and 28 the minutes away from the crucial read, and because it's one of the most important pieces of data the federal reserve uses before deciding whether to continue hiking interest rates, stocks are waiting for that number. dow jones industrials at the moment had a prettied good good day, up about is 70 points -- i. the s&p up 13 points. the nasdaq down about 4 points, just call it flat at the moment, and the russell 2000 up 20. the dow leaders though really reflecting the strongest s&p sectors of this this hour, energy, materials and industrials. caterpillar, minnesota mining and manufacturing, you've got dow inc., chevron, all right?

so energy, industrials, materials. but everything could change on that cpi release at 8:30a. eastern tomorrow. month over month inflation's expected to have cooled from .4% down to .9 2%. -- 2 -- .2%. but the fed, the fed is going to scrutinize the core rate which excludes volatile food and energy prices. month over month it could be a smaller move going down from .5% to . 4. year-over-year, that's expected to rise 5.6% versus month's 5.5%. one of the biggest moves as cpi bears down, look at the run bitcoin has been on. the crypto of record right now above $30,000. year to date it is looking at a phenomenal gain, as you see, of about 82%. what is going to the keep the fire under crypto stoked? and if you, like some, believe

that inflation has kept this fire going under crypto, do you really want inflation to keep going? coming up this hour, investor and crypto veteran mike pomly january know is here, and9 it's not just bitcoin, xrp has run up 53%, there's news etherium. with inflation still sticky though, big adopts inside the beltway -- developments inside the beltway. the u.s. treasury secretary ort? at the kickoff today of the imf's spring meeting, director of research played the role of skunk at the party warning that, quote, below the surface the tush turbulence is building, and the world economic situation is quite fragile. so the imf downgradeing, saying gdp will likely expand 2.8% this year, and for the u.s. the imp

the actually upgraded gdp from 1.4% to 1.6% i but, folks, that is still rather anemic and down significantly from the 2.8% last year. however, u.s. treasury secretary janet yellen took that same stage and said this: >> the u.s. economy is obviously performing exceptionally well with continued solid job creation, inflation gradually moving down, robust consumer spending. so i'm not anticipating a downturn in the economy. liz: so investors can be forgiven if they're not sure, but should they be hating equities like much of wall street is doing right now? even though all the while they've miss ifed out on a 15% -- missed out on a 15% gain on the nasdaq and a 7% jump in the s&p? let's get to our trade are the terse on the floor show, teddy

weisberg and scott shellady. teddy, both you and scott have parked money in treasuries over the past year, but is the hate stocks movement, the hate equities movement wrongheaded right now? >> well, liz, you know if everybody's on one side of the boat, you probably want to move to the other side. the fact is you could come up with any number of good reasons not to own equities ask not to have a lot of exposure to the markets, and i would be more or less in that corner because i have favored, as you know, the short-term treasury market going back now almost 13 months, and i continue to favor the short-term treasury market. on the other hand, you cannot deny that with all the bad news and all the naysayers, the market hangs in pretty good. yes, we haven't had a big, major up, you get two good days, one bad day, so it's kind of running

in place. just look at the dow for the first quarter, it was up less than 1%. less than 1% for the dow and, i mean, s&p up 7% is respectable, but nasdaq up 17% shows you where you want to be. but even with nasdaq most of that move,9 90% of of that move was in a handful of stocks. so it's been a difficult environment, but certainly has not been the end of the world. and you sort of have to respect the fact that with all the bad news, the market hangs in pretty good. liz: scott, i like teddy a's analogy of if everybody's on one side of the book, move to the other. you've got mark wilson of morgan stanley who is -- who has not changed his call that he's had. we're at 4120 the on the s&p, that call's been in play for about a year, i think. and if you listen to him and you stayed out of the market, you look at the charts of the dow, s&p and nasdaq, you can see that the very worst of times, march

of 2020 and the covid lockdowns, was the best of times to buy. so the question for me is present day, is it a little more questionable now? >> well, you know, you have to have some sort of context, liz. and if i think that you're not wrong. but with i'd also say that the returns in, say, bitcoin that everybody's crowing about today and/or the nasdaq elss you more about what happened last year than what's happening this year, right? i mean, the nasdaq got slaughtered last year. yeah, it's up a little bit because it went down so far last year. i'm in teddy's camp. i mean, look, nobody wants to be on the same side of the boat i'm on anyway because i'm so big -- [laughter] but i think that my view going forward is this: there are still some huge risks out there. this banking crisis is not over, and i can tell you that because if you to lack at the lending, you look a concern at what the regionals have done, the last two weeks we've basically seen lending shut down.

liz: not if you're janet yellen. i was stunned to to hear her say she is not seeing any kind of pullback from writing out credit and e loans. i don't understand it. we've already seen data that shows there's a problem. >> well, exactly right. but unfortunately, that's a bigger picture issue because nobody trusts the government anymore. i mean, you can go back and pick any conversation you want, but i'd also like you to drink some of the water in east palestine too. so that being said, i'm skeptical. i'm not going to say that we're going to have a world renowned crash, but i love the a fact that i just went on -- i got on before the show, 6-month money is at 5%, liz. that's hard to say no to. yes, i know you're locking in a loser, but if the s&p is only giving me 7%, there's a lot of risk premium built in there, and i get a guaranteed 5%? it's hard to make an argument against it. and i also think it could hurt those small regionals because money's moving away to go to those treasuries. i think charles schwab's going

to lose 8% to revenue because of folks taking money out to park in the short-term stuff. so it's hard to argue with that. liz: yeah. and as we wait on the cpi number tomorrow, may 3rd is the next fed meeting, the teddy, and austan goolsbee, the new head of the chicago federal reserve, speaking just about an hour and a half ago, and he came out quite dovish. he was flashing the warning signals, in essence saying the fed should be cautious about raising interest rates in the face of a recent banking stress that we have seen, and he also said that he was very concerned that a pullback many in bank lending while it would help quell inflation is still somewhat kiss the concerting. disconcerting. >> well, you know, liz, this is part of the big problem, and i think scott has mentioned this today and in the past. the problem is everybody, everybody has the bloody pulpit, and everybody has an opinion. and, quite frankly, nobody knows what the answer is. and it's very confusing and it's very upsetting for most

investors. i don't know how you can have so many experts that have input into what the federal reserve is going to do and not going to do and none of them have the same, none of them can agree on anything. so this is a problem for investors. but when you come back to the market, this is the confusion part of what's going on here. but when you, when you look at all these issues and is a lot of them are genuinely negative issues, for whatever reasons, the market continues to the hang in. there is an old adage on wall street, liz, never sell a dull market short, and and this is clearly, you know, as far as the intraday volatility the, this is a pretty dull market -- liz: yeah, 18. look at the vix, the fear index. not only is it down 1.33 which in and of itself isn't a big deal, it's at 18. [laughter] are you kidding me? that's pretty low considering that the 40 level was something we had seen over the past couple of years. teddy, scott, we're watching all of it, thank you so much. so much of the market things

on how and whether the u.s. economy recovers or dips into recession. guess what else things on that? the 2024 presidential race. the race just heated up as former arkansas governor asa hutchinson becomes the latest republican to throw his hat in the ring. hutchinson making his mark early as the first and only candidate to call on former president trump to pull out of the race following trump's recent criminal charges. but what's hutchinson's plan to leap ahead of donald trump and all the others when it comes to future policies to douse the flames of inflation? to spur economic growth? where because he stand on regulating crypto or, for that matter, a.i.? asa hutchinson standing by live next. we're going to ask him to plant his flag on the issues that affect you, american business and more. closing bell, 49 minutes away. the dow climbing 163 points at the moment. we are coming right back. ♪

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eight days ago former arkansas governor asa hutchinson announced his bid for the white house, and he did so with an interesting splash. he is the first republican presidential candidate to call for lead gop candidate donald trump to withdraw from the races in light of trump's arraignment haas week on criminal charges involving hush money payment toss a porn star and a playboy model. hutchinson got a lot of attention for that, but his announcement was thin on the policy ideas that are win him the gop nomination. thin, that is, until now. joining me now is 2024 the presidential candidate and former arkansas governor asa hutchinson. governor, i hope i didn't put too much pressure on you -- [laughter] >> we'll get all the policy out, get a few minutes that we can. liz: yeah, i love it. it's like solve world peace in six minutes, right? thank you so much for joining us. you're muscling into what is expected to be a crowded field including poll leader at the moment copped the trump, nikki

haley -- including donald trump. as a business network, we have some pressing questions our viewers need answered before any candidate gets their vote. first, people should know that as governor, you actually built up a state tax revenue surplus of more than $2 billion, and yet your web site is, asa 2024.com, doesn't have your ideas, if elected, to turn the nation's massive deficit into a surplus. can you tell us here how you would do that? >> well, absolutely. and asa 2024 is being built, so stay tuned on that. whenever you look at the recession that's hitting everybody potentially, and we're worried about it, it's inflation, it is interest rates that's hurting our families. what do we need to do about that? all the money that's in the system from the inflation reduction act, all the money that hasn't been spent but is in the system needs to be withdrawn. that is very important to put the money pressure, to take the money pressure away, take some money out of the system because

the root problem is excessive federal end spending. that way you can return to more of a market economy. that way you can stop the pressure on fed to raising interest rates which is the big challenge we have and pressure that we might enter a recession. liz: can i just push you on withdraw the money that's been put into the system? how do you plan to withdraw that? ask people for it back? >> no, no, no. it hasn't been spent yet. just as governor there was millions of dollars that came into the pipeline, and it has not been spent by the states. there's money that has been authorized, but it hasn't been spent, and it hasn't even been obligated yet with. and this thoughs has put pressure on the system. in other words, there's more money going to be the spent, trillions of dollars more money is going to be spent, and that's what needs to slow down from the federal level. liz: i'm guessing you're a cut taxes, not a raise them guy. who would get the first tax cut in a hutchinson presidenciesome.

>> well, the first thing is we need to have a pro-growth energy policy and a pro-growth tax policy. and so while we cut taxes significantly in arkansas while i was governor, when you look at the federal level, let's start by not undoing the tax cuts that are set to expire that's coming up in the end of 2023. those ought to be extended. and so the key is don't raise taxes, let's have a pro-growth tax policy to help our economy grow combined with a pro-energy, a pro-growth energy policy that'll help us to expand our economy and build the economy in the private sector. liz: part of the inflation that we are seeing that markets, consumers, businesses are extremely concerned about is energy inflation but food inflation as well. we're getting that cpi number, headline inflation supposed to cool but expected to tick up for the core. what is your clearest answer, governor, to bringing down

inflation faster than it's coming down right now? >> well, i just gave one answer which is take the money out of the system which takes the pressure off the inflation. secondly, we have to improve our supply chain. we can't be dependent upon adversarial countries on supply chain that costs money if you reduce the cost of supply chain, make it more reliable, then that will help us in our goods, in our stores and help those that are struggling right now. liz: i want to get to the banking sector because it just, as you know, peeks experienced sort of a near death, a near if death, close miss with the collapse of silicon valley bank and signature bank. the fdic rushed in to insure all bank deposits, even those over the $250,000 limit, and the federal reserve lent billions od up to that discount window. do you see that as a necessity or as bailouts. >> i don't see it as a

necessity, in fact, i see it as an error because we have to share the risk. the depositors have to make good judgments as to how much they have at a particular bank. they need to make sure they manage the deposits well. the insurance is very important, but you have to share those risks. the federal reserve, the fdic moved in very quickly which was the right thing to do with silicon valley bank, but they have not -- they should not have so quickly moved in to make sure that there was not any, that the federal government is covering the losses versus the assets of the bank. liz: fed chair jay powell has made it through a republican administration with donald trump, now he's in a democratic administration. both presidents have different approaches, right? trump regularly, publicly excoriated jay powell while biden has more of a hands-off approach. which approach would you most likely take? do you think that the fed needs to be totally independent of a president who probably want toss see rates come down? -- wants to see rates come down?

>> i think there should be an engaged discussion between the president, the federal reserve just like congress has hearings with federal reserve. i think president biden is making a mistake by saying you're totally independent, we're not going to have these conversations or you're not going to hear from me. absolutely, that discussion should take place, and the view ises of the administration are important -- views of the administration are important as one factor for the federal reserve to consider. and and so that would be my approach. i think you have to engage in those conversations. liz: you know, i want to bring up the issue about donald trump because you, actually, threw it down as a gawbt let on the abc announcement that you were going to run for president. and forgive me if i'm misinterpreting this, and feel free to clarify, but when you said that the president, former president should drop out of the race, you spun it not from the position of what some critics of the president say, he's not fit to serve, he's been charged with a crime, there are more charges down the road, but rather, you

spun it as the trial would be a side show and a distraction, trump needs to be able to concentrate on his due process. where do you actually stand on donald trump's ability to win the presidency? >> what's most important for me is that i want to compete existence donald trump, and i want to -- against donald trump, and i want to compete in the ballot box and not the courtroom. right now all the attention's on the courtroom drama that's going to continue. i love the conversation about inflation, about overregulation, about our fee market system, and that's what this campaign should be about. so let's win at the ballot box and i, for one, do not believe that donald trump can win in a general election, and i don't want to lose. i think it's very important we have a change in direction in our country, and that is not going to happen if donald trump gets the nomination. so let's understand that, let's get away from the distractions. i suggested one e way, that he withdraw. he's not going to do that. so let's have it decided at the

ballot box, but let's focus on the key issues that really are challenging americans right now. liz: okay. and so does that mean that you will update your web site? when we went on it to see where you stand on each piece of the policy -- we haven't even tackled health care, but so many other issues, all it is is just a donation site. so i'm sure that many voters watching right now want to hear again how you feel about the fed, about regulation, about crypto, a.i. regulation and all of that. >> of these policy positions are are on america strong and freedom that i have worked with in developing those. those will be transfer thed over to the new web site soon. asa 2024.com. so thanks for raising that. i assure you, it will be updated. liz: asa hutchinson is, and we're hoping to host all of the candidates, so thank you very much for coming on "the claman countdown." we appreciate it. >> thank you, liz. liz: investors are putting the pedal to the metal on car a max shares what's driving those

gains for the embattled stock? that's ahead in today's pop stocks. plus, there's officially one week left to file your taxes for 2022. up next, the reason behind why many might be disappointed by their dwindling returns. with the closing bell ringing in 35 minutes, we've got the dow up 1 is 83, the s&p up 13, nasdaq now down just 3 points. we're coming right back. ♪ and i remember kind of thinking like, "oh my gosh, i think we could be sisters." because i think we looked...

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liz: fox business alert, as we look at the market, you know what? can we rook at the russell? i never want to forget the small and big caps, but the russell 2000 at the moment is looking pretty darn good. percentage wise -- that's not correct. it's up 1.25% as far as percentages can concerned -- are concerned. there it is, a nice day, and we are at pretty much the intraday highs for the russell. let's go to car max. it is zooming higher and landing at the temperature top of the s&p 500 after posting better than expected fourth quarter earnings. while the stock is still down 36% year-over-year, okay, it's up 10% today, but the preto owned car dealer or actually reported a profit of 44 cents, well above the 24 cents analysts had estimated. the virginia-base company says cost-cutting measures helped offset a slowdown in demand. gold miner newmont raising its all-stock takeover to bid for rival new crest mining. we cough newmont down about

1.6%, but look at new crest op popping 7%. the new bid of $19.5 billion is 16 higher than its previous offer. if the deal goes through, newmont's gold output would nearly double that of its leading competitor, barrack gold. moderna sinking after announcing its flu vaccine failed to meet late stage criteria. it will continue testing the drug, but analysts at oppenheimer say poor test results remove the near-term optimism surrounding stock. the drugmaker still expects to file for approval of the rsv vaccine this quarter and plans to launch six major vaccines over the next few years. for now the stock is off the lows of the session as you see from the intraday here, still down about 2.5%. ww international added points on the stock board, gaining 66.5% after the company known as weight watchers announced completion of its acquisition of digital health company sequence for $132 million on the heels of

that news, goldman sachs upgrading the stock from neutral to a buy and raising its price target 216%. that would take it from $3.80 to $13. right now ww is at $6.81. you only have one week left to to get those taxes filed, but you may not be happy with the return that's going back into your bank account. the irs reports that the average refund is down 9.8% from last year even as americans pay more for everyday items. gerri willis joining me live now, why are the returns skinnier this year? >> i've got to tell you, it's i all about the expiration of pandemic benefits. and as you say, we're a week away from tax day, and the bad news here, refunds are getting smaller in part because of the expiration of pandemic benefits. take a reason. >> this is probably our first normalizing tax season for folks being used to where we were prior to the pandemic in 2019.

and that is predictably reducing refunds over all. >> the average refun for tax year 2022 is coming in at $2,910, that's down nearly 10% year-over-year. now, the change could be critical for many according to a bankrate survey. refunds are regarded as important to the vast majority of taxpayers who receive them, blaming the expiration of pandemic benefits including increases in the child tax credit and earned income tax credits. and while the irs claims refunds for 9 out of 10 filers are delivered in just the concern 21 days or less, it can take longer if you pile the on paper or make an error. check the irs find my refund web page to learn when you'll get your money. the irs delaying implementing new tax reporting requirements for people making $600 or more via third party payment apps like ebay, etsy and paypal. previously, the threshold was 20,000. now, liz, these companies are calling on congress to ease the

requirements by raising the threshold, but unless congress changes the rule, well, you're going to have to comply on your 2023 tax boards, and that means collecting info this year for april 2024 tax reporting. liz. are. liz: this is so valuable to hear on so many levels, gerri, thank you very much. gerri willis. even as bitcoin rallies 82% year to date and today finally punched through the crucial 30,000 level once again, critics still say we're on the brink of a crypto apocalypse are. famed digital asset investor anthony pomply january know joining me live next -- anthony pompliano. where he sees crypto prices heading. as pomp gives us his vision, my new guest on my everyone talks to liz podcast, he has created an app that's expected to help millions see a clearer picture. did you know 250 million people

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♪ liz: oh, bitcoin believers are breaking out the bubbly right now. the crypto of record has finally reclaimed $30,000. it's taken 305 days, but bitcoin officially breached that level for the first time since june in the last 24 the hours. right now look at it, it's at $30,419 and pretty much, yeah, it's at the 24 the-hour high, that is for sure. of course, it's no where near bitcoin's record high of $69,044 back in november of 2021, but bitcoin's boost has sent crypto-related stocks surging. just look at coinbase, block, riot, marathon, all are charging higher today. you know what? block is just about a third of a percent hire, but the rest of them, i mean, riot up 17%, marathon up 14. coinbase up 6%. bitcoin was the best, and we've told you this before, the best performing asset in the first

quarter of this year. could the crypto see back to back quarterly wins, and that's going to make that happen? let's bring in one of the most well known names in the crypto game, pomp investments' anthony pompliano in a fox business exclusive. let's tackle that first, do you think it'll see a sec quarter win as well, best performing asset is just like in the first quarter? >> liz, thanks so much for having me. i understand people want to talk about week to week performance, month to month performance, but bitcoin forces people to be a long-term thinker about it. if you really look over the last couple of years, there's been incredible volatility. we've seen prices go up hundreds of percent, we've seen drawdowns that have been 50-75%. so the people who end up kind of winning by holding the asset are folks who use timeless investment principles, the dollar cost average into an asset, they hold it for a long time, and it happens to be the trade of this generation. if you go back 20 years ago, the winners and and losers were pretty much determined by who bought the internet stocks and who didn't, and if you could

hold the right ones for a long time, you ended up having outsized returns. i think the trade of this generation is going to be who bought this asset, who didn't, and you've got to hold it for a long period of time, and you can't get sucked up into that day-to-day volatility. so far those people tend to be doing pretty well. liz: yeah. who bought it at $15,000, because now it has doubled. what do you think has been the real driver? we hear everything about, oh, the regional banking crisis because, you know, obviously the original intent of bitcoin when it was created by whoever, you know, whatever that that really was, was that people no longer trusted the central bank or regular banks. is it that? is it something much, much longer in the past perhaps? is it inflation? what do you think? >> yeah, i think people want a black and white answer, but the short answer is it's everything, right? what i mean by that is i think that the debt limit crisis, there are a lot of people who are saying how do i hedge a

potential u.s. default i need an alternative. bitcoin can help solve that. there's people who say, hey, i need something that will hedge me from currency to -- currency debasement. bitcoin can solve that. people say, hey, i need to hedge around the banking system, i need something outside of the system, bitcoin can solve that. you go through these legacy cracks and, again, i don't think a majority of people are taking 100% or even 50% of their net worth and buying bitcoin. i very much think the majority of folks are putting some percentage, maybe 1-5%, into bitcoin and saying this is the chaos hedge, the insurance in case there are significant issues in that legacy system. and what is fascinating to me is that that system now has been adopted by over 150 million people around the world. and so if you think about that, you could line up every single american citizen and about 1 out of every 2 of them now believe that this system is worthy of some portion of the economic value that they've earned in

their life which is absolutely incredible to only be, you know, 15 years or so into this. liz: sure. but, anthony, you talk about significant trust issues. we just saw this in november with ftx, the cryptocurrency exchange, that completely collapsed, filed for bankruptcy. blockfi also having trouble, silvergate had to close its bank. what about the trust issues there? >> i think that if you go and you ask people in the bit expoin cryptocurrency industry -- and -- bitcoin and crypto currency industry, the banks are centralized, many of those companies you described are centralized as well. but bitcoin specifically is a decentralized asset with a program mat ific monetary policy. -- programmatic monetary policy. and if there's one thing in the world that the i will bet my life on, it is the fact that bitcoin's monetary policy will continue to execute exactly as designed. liz: whoa. >> no one in the legacy financial system can even tell me what the federal reserve's monetary policy is going to be a

month or a couple of weeks if from now. it's impossible to plan. the average american cannot plan their life, the average entrepreneur cannot plan their business because they don't know if the cost of capital is going to be 0% or 5%, if we're going to be in quantitative tightening or easing. but bitcoiners know the monetary policy until the day they die. and as long as that code continues to execute, that monetary policy will not change x and that is the beauty. you can trust an algorithm just as you do in the rest of your life. you trust google to give you answers rather than ask your friend, you trust spotify to give you music recommendations. you trust google maps to give you directions rather than ask a friend. liz: oh, wow. you just bet your life, anthony, don't -- okay, we've got to have you back because i wanted to talk about xrp. that's up 50 plus percent year to date, there's news on etherium, an upgrade in shanghai that released 33 billion in

token assets, so much more to come on that. thank you so much for joining us. >> absolutely. thanks for having me, guys. liz: anytime. we're coming right back. the dow, look at this, we've lost about, i don't know, 90, 60 to points here? we are still up about 1134. ♪ -- 113. ♪ ♪

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♪. liz: okay. not only has the dow now lost 100 points of its 180 points we had at the top of the hour, we now have the s&p dipping back into negative territory. it is not at lows of the session. low of session loss of six points. we're down under one point. >> can i say why i think that is? liz: why do you think that is? >> the new york fed president said we have to do one more rate increase, maybe two. even if we pause we have to do later on if inflation doesn't correct. >> just speaking? >> saw it over the wires. liz: thank you, charlie, so much. >> i can do anything. you want to see me juggle? liz: i like to see you do shares of bud maker anheuser-busch. they are recovering. why? >> not because of me. we do have an exclusive story. i've been talking to marketing people, outside marketing people of anheuser-busch.

they're owned by ab -- liz: ambev. >> brazilian based, headquartered in new york. i've been talking to anheuser-busch marketing people, wholesalers, run a lot of distributors of beer, what the hell is going on here? here is what is flummoxing them. usually they get these sort of insiders that are connected to the company some sort of a head's up on ads, okay? they are told, particularly at the wholesalers convention. there was one in anaheim, california, in january. that did occur. when you're there, you see the ads. particularly if something is really controversial you might see it. this was not shown. it apparently, kind of got snuck in there via social media. remember this was an instagram ad. put her face on the beer. liz: there she is.

>> then do an instagram ad. they get some. some companies are doing much more social media advertising they get some heads up and they didn't. everybody is demanding from the company how did this happen? they're getting no really good answers. the one answer kind of filtering out, we've not been able to confirm this. i can confirm they were not given a helps up at the wholesalers meeting because i spoke with them. this part i have not been able to confirm this is the work of a market canning team, sort siloed there has been management turnover and not, not run by, not approved by management, senior management. liz: or the cmo? >> the c-suites. whether that is true or not i do not know. one thing i do know, say what you want about people transitioning the way they did this really as roiled their customer base, which you know, the beer drinking customer is

not exactly you know, simpatico with a sort of display of this type. liz: how do you know that? is that just an assumption? >> no i have seen the marketing research who drinkings beer. >> okay. >> usually a white guy that is older, often blue-collar. liz: okay. >> generally does not want to see transgenderism flouted in their faces. that is clearly, that is what they're doing here. so, you know this is a problem for the company. now what they do about it i can't tell you. do they rescind the ad, stop doing it, i have no idea? they're not talking to me. i have put in several calls. the reason why i think this is a big story because i have been covering the sort of movement towards wokism in corporate america now for, several years and, you know, here is what i would say, when you do stuff like this, when the, when the nfl condones like one knee during the national anthem, you know, you generally annoy at

least 50% of your consumer or more. it's the reason why people boycotted delta when they went after the georgia state, the georgia governor that voting law, you know. i'm telling you, this stuff, i can't believe companies still do this. they are doing it. they're all good stories. we should point out the stock is down generally from when this started. liz: charlie, thank you very much. we appreciate it. closing bell, we are four minutes away. stocks are off session highs. the dow 100 points off its session high. right now up still about 93 points. the s&p turning negative, not by much. a point and a quarter here. big tech stocks dragging down the nasdaq. in addition to tomorrow's highly anticipated consumer price index report for the month of march we're also going to see how much inflation is impacting shoppers when we get the march retail sales report on friday. analysts are expectinginging a f

retail drop. "countdown" closer says i got stock in the sector i say are worth buying. i is jordan kimmel, portfolio manager of value engine capital management. this is dicey. if we're really starting to see the consumer slow. you wonder are they really going to be buying things they don't have to buy? yet you like three names here. let's talk about them. >> you know liz, you're 100% right. you know, that i don't buy all stocks that don't support all stocks. i do really high math, and i look at some interesting trends. you know, we go way back when. i give you my small cap pick here. you remember the old pokemon 20 years ago? there is a baby pokemon right now. it is jack pacific.

licensing company, a toy company. i saw you talking about super mario yesterday, a new license to market mario brothers toys and they also have a new collectible out right now, going on the premise of got to get them all. so very tiny pe, very tiny price to sales. and, you know you really can't be buying of course. you have to be really selective. liz: super mario movie was huge over the weekend, gigantic. got a lot of people back into the movie theaters. so that is interesting. our viewers love when you tell them something that they don't already know. tell us something we don't already know about crocs and decker outdoors? >> you know, so crocs is an old story too. you know, i'm not saying i love the look. i'm not saying i have a whole set of them but again when you look at the revenues, you look at the margins and i think they're red hot, there is a lot of people who love them. i know they're comfortable.

i had a pair back when. liz: good price point. >> and so the uggs too, uggs with deckers, this is something people love the brand, they live in the brand. so again, look at what i'm always looking at through eyes, revenue growth, margin growth, fine being needles in the haystack, value growth and momentum. you can't get caught up in the fed's news every day. you have to find the best companies and accumulate them. liz: very, very good point. great to have you, jordan kimmel. one big piece of news tomorrow during the day. [closing bell rings] cpi, as we remind you, it is not always how the market opens, how the market absorbs all the news about consumer inflation, how it closes. you got to join us.