-- >> we all got it wrong. >> [laughter] stuart: enes what's wrong with you? you don't know state capitols in america? >> i was getting ready for my citizenship test too. i was perfect score. you know, they give you 100 questions and you have to get like six of them right and they ask you 10 questions i got 100%. stuart: i took that test. i took that test. >> did you get 100? stuart: id's as a matter of fact how many supreme court justices are there? >> 11 or 12? stuart: nope, nine. that's part of the test. you have a big question about this. i think that we wrapped up this extravaganza you're all right, enes good stuff. don't worry about it i've got five seconds that's it for "varney" & company for today "coast to coast" starts now. neil: all right, a sell-off you can bank on it right now all but johnson & johnson and the dow 30 up right now, or down i should say, again, on the fears, the

banking thing isn't over. fears of interest rates going still higher isn't over. the economy hiccupping now apparently not over and the growing concerns are spreading to regional banks like pac west and others under pressure again and you know think about it jpmorgan chase, which was a hero yesterday but a bit of a dog today had 3% yesterday, today reversing a lot of those gains on the idea or the fear that there could be a contagion over the horizon here. a bit premature but then add to that the fact that we have this debt ceiling situation that's already prompted the president of the united states to say why don't we all gather around the white house a week from today. the top republican and democratic congressional leaders , the president will try to iron out an accord because the treasury secretary is already saying you know what? come june 1, we'll be running out of options, running out of cash, and running out of wiggle room completely. now that might be meant to scare but it's having the appropriate effect at the corner of wall and broad selling off again on fears

right now that the things are looking a little bit tip it. now, again, i don't like to stress in a market moment this is a lasting moment, but i will harken you back to how washington responds to such moments, if any of them have to do with frustration over these debt ceiling talks that are going nowhere fast. does anyone remember the trouble asset relief program? the big vote to try to get that passed to rescue banks that were teetering back in the fall of 2008. remember we fell 777 points that day when that vote fell through and congress refused to pass that rescue. that 777-point sell-off afterwards prompted them to say you know what? let's go back, try it again. ironically, they did pass it, but markets continued to swoon even after that thousands of points after that. that was then, i'm not saying it's happening right now but that's kind of the dynamic you're dealing with. so let's go to chad pergram, following these talks.

he remembers well how in that particular instance the markets moved washington to do something maybe not to washington's delight, but that was then, what are we seeing now, my friend? reporter: neil, good afternoon. the government supply of cash could run dry in 30 days. the sides don't have much time to cut a deal. gop members say the president and senate democrats should have a plan. >> frankly, i'm a little appalled that the leadership in the white house has not taken this seriously enough to sit down and negotiate in good faith we're in may now, all right? we've got to move, and it's simply unacceptable for people to begin to worry whether they get social security checks. reporter: senate democrats wrote a clean debt ceiling bill they want passed. the senate will not consider the house gop bill and senate majority leader chuck schumer says house republicans cannot make changes to their bill so there's a stalemate.

>> rather than listen to reason , speaker mccarthy has caved to extremists. bypassing the default on america act, he's handed the keys over to the house freedom caucus. reporter: but some gop members are skeptical of a june deadline they believe the administration is crying wolf. >> i don't think the secretary is trying to put pressure on congress. i wouldn't pay too much attention to treasuries statements about the precise time that this june 1 date. i think that's a political statement, not a statement based on fact. reporter: congress technically hit the debt ceiling over the winter. the treasury has been going through the fiscal couch cushions to pay debts ever since the next thing to watch for , a market reaction to inaction in washington. neil? neil: you know, chad, you've been around for a while and know how washington operates.

sometimes, it responds to crisis , or at least the sense of one developing, maybe on wall street. i do remember that with the tarp vote that failed and then the 777 point sell-off as sort of remanned them up if you will to another vote that did pass. the irony being, you know, months later we were thousands of points even lower, but how much of a role do the markets play in how washington acts or reacts? >> big time. if there is a market shock, they will get religion in washington fast. that's one thing to watch for. also, if moody's or s&p or any of the credit raters do something to downgrade, remember they did that ex-post facto, after they actually raised the debt ceiling in 2011. i have been told they could move preempt preemptively sometime in mid-may, maybe after this meeting at the white house on may 9 but that could have an impact also and again, you know, something we're looking for here is what is that vote

matrix? nobody knows what can pass the house, what can pass the senate. there in-lies the problem no matter what the markets or credit raters say. neil: were you referring to what moody's or another ratings agency could do in the interim to potentially lower a credit rating ahead of our technically running out of cash, or so the treasury says, june 1. >> that's right. well the argument back in 2011 is that they did not like all the drama. neil: right, i remember. reporter: that washington infused into the process. they said we have no confidence in you being able to address this so if we get down the train tracks past may 9 and obviously they don't have the votes in the house, they don't have the votes in the senate, "the talks" go nowhere, they could potentially, underscoring potentially, do that preemptive ly because they say look you are infusing drama into the process and this date sometime in june, early june potentially, is coming at you fast. neil: wow that is big news. chad, thank you very much. chad pergram.

want to get reaction from danielle dimartino booth former fed official and what she makes of that. that opens a possibility of market freefall here, if you get a credit agency saying we're downgrading you, just because of all of this nonsense. what do you think? >> it's true. i remember august 5, 2011 like it was yesterday, and s&p came back and downgraded the united states sovereign debt rating because there had been no progress at all on entitlement reform. for all of the shenanigans -- neil: but they avoided default, right? >> they avoided default. neil: that be the thing that would trigger the downgrade. >> and accomplished nothing. here we are talking about it this many years later and our fiscal debt has absolutely exploded. the president is saying, you know, we've already run up the bill. we have to pay the tab, and my answer to that is why did we have to order it in the first place and put it on the tab? and i think that that's why we really need to be adults and come to the table and specifically talk about reforms, because this is something that

we couldn't do in 2011 if we kick the can again we're just saying we're not a country that's even capable of tending to our own business. neil: so let me ask you about the june 1 deadline that the treasury secretary has laid out and i know a lot of republicans cynically say oh, we have more time than that. i always say whether you're republican or democrat don't toy with dates and say no we actually can settle this in august, september. that might or might not be the case, but this idea that tax receipts are coming in lower than expected or spending going out higher-than-expected, it does seem some plausibility to this. >> look, it is math and it's math that can be done. we have to remember we only need $60 billion a month to service the u.s. debt. neil: is that all? >> there are all other kinds of spending we need to dedicate in other areas and we know tax receipts from the post popular state, california, have been off -put until october 15 because of the rains that they had up there. that could be upwards of $100 billion we're going to have coming into the coffers. neil: what kind of wiggle room

does the treasury have? >> they have extraordinary, look who wants to close the smithsonian when peoples families are coming to visit and the national park system down and who wants to shutdown non-essential government agencies. neil: but that's not the stuff that gets you a credit downgrade or worse yet, a default. >> it doesn't. but if it is apparent, remember its been months since the white house has met with mccarthy. if it is apparent that the two sides are going to remain $5 trillion apart, then if you're the credit rating at say you might be saying to yourself this might be pushing into the fall. we don't know. neil: so in that gap, we've got now the fed meeting this week. presumably the consensus is that they hike one last time. do you agree with that? >> well i'm watching market probabilities very closely, when i walked into this building an hour ago it was 85% chance of one more rate hike, tomorrow right before i came on set it was 80% chance. they really are trying to press the fed right now. they are taking a lot of the

regional bank stocks down today, and in fact some of the larger banks have also come under pressure and the market is trying to communicate to the fed that this bank failure, bank crisis, whatever name you want to attach to it, it doesn't feel like it's over. neil: so would that give the fed pause? >> it could give the fed pause. neil: if you were sitting a voting member of the fed in this environment, would you keep going tough with rates? >> there are 160 million working americans and retirees. inflation really hurts them. i understand that there are 6 million americans who or so who are countered among the unemployed but when you're at the federal reserve, you have to consider this much larger pool of people who are still, they are all over my twitter feed. i'm still paying too much for everything, so if inflation -- neil: keep that fight going, don't weaken it or your resolve to deal with it. >> they're not planning on hiking rates very much at all. we're no longer talking about -- neil: just mentioned the regional bank situation,

talking act pac west and others down more than 10%. >> indeed and lining up like domino's and that's a real potential downside for the financial markets. neil: should it be? >> we're certainly finding out. neil: should the fed be looking at that? >> the fed should be focused on what's on these bank balance sheets beyond the fact they've raised interest rates. its become very apparent that a lot of lending has occurred that was maybe more speculative in nature than it should have been under prudent lending standards. neil: danielle, thank you very much. you're still betting on a quarter point hike tomorrow but maybe not. >> they could pause. we'll see how this market closes neil: this could be it. >> yes. neil: okay we'll watch, danielle , thank you, maya macguineas the committee for responsible federal budget the president. you know, i want to pick-up on something i left with danielle, this idea of whether you buy that june 1 deadline thing. i always feel that whether you agree with that and it's actually later, if it compels you to act to address this so be

it but i don't see a rush to address this. i could be missing something, but what do you think? >> first i kind of want to take a step back from the june 1 deadline. the point is this is urgent. they have to get to the table and discuss this and figure out how to lift the debt ceiling without drama, but this has been true for months and months, and waiting to the last minute, this is no way to govern. the fact this is how we are governing surfaces a much larger problem going on. you can't have a discussion about raising the debt ceiling and putting in place sensible savings which is what we should do without republicans and democrats pointing fingers at each other, and there are so many huge issues facing the nation right now and the fact that we can't govern without it being like two teams blaming each other, really bodes poorly for the country, so on the debt ceiling, get to the table immediately. figure out how to lift the debt ceiling, with no drama. it's going to harm us if we even get close, and it's not just about the stock market, right?

it's about the signals that we send about whether we're able to govern in a smart way for the overall country, and two , look at the fiscal situation. it's terrible. you and i have been talking about that for years. as bad as its ever been, we're about to be at the record level of debt to gdp. we need to put a sensible package of savings in place. it's time to start compromising. neil: but chances are we won't do that. >> so if we don't do that then you have to lift the debt ceiling without it. i mean if they don't want to come to some kind of compromise and you need a clean debt ceiling, you can not default because it is a terrible angle. we would harm ourselves and why do we want to harm our own country's economy when there's so many things going on around the world we need to be facing as a single nation? neil: let me ask you about that. there's other talk out there that we might get our credit downgraded, maybe in a couple weeks, if this craziness goes on regardless of your political allegiances, and that is, even if we strike a deal soon there

after, what do you make of that? >> right. when you are a country that borrows as much as we do, which is way too much, we're going to be spending more on interest payments than we do on national defense or medicaid in the next few years. that is just a sign of being stupid in how much you're borrowing and not for good reasons, just because we don't like to pay the bills but if you are borrowing that much, being downgraded, having things that increase the cost of your borrowing, harm us tremendously so if interest rates go up just a little because we're fighting inflation or we get downgraded that leads to huge additional costs in our interest payments which crowd out other parts of the budget so again we are harming ourselves by not acting sensibly and having our lawmakers act as good stewards for the country. neil: it is a mess and it's not getting less messy so we'll have to keep following it. thank you very very much again, the startling development here and you heard it from our own chad pergram is the notion credit ratings agency could be s&p, moody's any one of the

others out there could move to downgrade our debt, even if the face of a potential non- default. even securing a deal because everything that's been going up to this moment. now, history bears that out, it goes back in 2011, the exact same thing happened. we avoided default. we avoided something that could have gotten really really messy, and still, our triple a credit rating went away. we'll have much more, after this this isn't just freight. these aren't just shipments. they're promises. promises of all shapes and sizes.

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and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities™. neil: all right, elizabeth warren not a fan of jerome powell once again, hiking interest rates here, sending out a signal that these are rate hikes are getting extreme. many people of all different types of political persuasions tend to agree with her on that. i might also make a quick footnote about what's happening in the banking sector right now. of course first, republic and that rescue being held and yesterday being reversed, today the rescuer jpmorgan chase under some selling pressure right now itself after running ahead with it yesterday, and growing concerns as the financial times is just reporting that others could be in the wake. pac west seen one of the weaker mid-size regional banks has taken on the chin. it had been down more than 25% before trading was halted

briefly. i believe it is now trading again. don't hold me to that, but again , it is leading to a cascading and a lot of regional bank issues as a result. we're watching that closely and the back and forth as to whether banking situation is still problematic. keep in mind that could temper whatever the federal reserve wants to do as it concludes a two-day meeting tomorrow at which we're told that the fed will hike interest rates but maybe go away in may after that. we shall see. the expectations are 80% betting that we'll see a quarter point hike tomorrow, and the overnight bank lending rate known as federal funds putting it at a range of between 5.25%. no guaranteeing there but we really what the fed chairman has to say after that, presumably that he's now going to sit back and sort of see what happens. no guarantee of that but this bank backdrop here could push that to be the case. meantime, there's this. >> we're getting prepared now for what we call the unknown and

the unknown is what will happen after may 11. we figure that's anywhere between 10 to 12,000 people that are ready to come on may 11 and may 12. we do know that there's additional coming right behind them. neil: all right, the el paso mayor saying whatever else has been thinking and worrying about and even the white house is preparing forgetting ready to send 1,500 active duty u.s. troops to the border ahead of the lifting of title 42. that is the mechanism by which those apprehended at the border get their cases adjudicated or handled if you will on the mexican side of the border. that conceivably could end on the 11th and there inlies the problem for people like daniel garza, the president whose been warning about this and trying to let republicans and democrats know you just can't ignore this. daniel, it's good to see you. let me first of all get your thoughts on what the president is doing, sending troops to the border now.

obviously, in preparation for title 42 going away, but how do you think that's going to go down? >> look, neil, thank you for having me on. look, i think there is tremendous value in some elements of the military that could help with the administrative and transportation roles that would really free up a lot of the time of law enforcement border patrol right now, their time is tied up , processing immigrants and flying them to their cities of choice. it really is taking away from their jobs of intercepting folks at the border and of course, keeping us from the harms of the cartel and human traffickers , so this is something that i think is positive and in fact, currently, there are 3,000 military aids already on the border, but you know, for many on the left i think they resist the role of the military because of the optics but they serve a purpose. neil: you know, i just wonder what the fallout be , daniel, from mexico, seeing u.s. troops at the border, helping the deal

with something at the border. they are no big fans of our sending troops to deal with the drug problem at the border all of that. how do you think they react? >> i mean, i'm sure there must be a sensitivity to that, but at the same time, again, these military elements would actually be probably more in the office, processing folks, doing administrative-type work, so they aren't as visible and even if they were obviously our border patrol right now is under staffed, and they are out-gunned so any help they can get be good if they were to take a more enforcement type role i could see how that could be an issue. neil: any sort of a hail mary pass reprieve of title 42? or as it goes, and there's no denying that it goes, and that 40,000 up to 40,000 mexicans on the mexican side of the border, not just mexicans i should point

out, where do they go? >> well, you know, honestly, neil, title 42 was always a temporary public health order that was meant to drawdown. in fact, there's no fees as a consequence. there's no criminal offense tied to the deportation for reentry after being processed under title 42. under normal processes they go through the entire vetting process which takes an hour and a half. under 42 it's only like 15 minutes so i think we need to get back to the normal process, but we just, we have legislative fixes on the table that could help us to adjudicate these cases quicker like the border solutions act, the border enhancement act and we could address market forces and labor demand through other legislation and that's what congress needs to get to. neil: all right, don't hold your breath on that one, daniel, but you had been consistently sending out signals and more than just signals. they got to do something say maybe whether this time is the charm i wonder.

daniel garza, libre initiative president. getting more details on the bank sell-off, particularly pac west one of the weaker players among, i guess they be a smaller regional here but there's an interesting quote from chris whalen, following the banks very closely on the financial times site say hope i'm quoting correctly here. they are going from the weakest bank to the weakest bank, referring to investors, and it's not just short sellers, but it's customers as well, asking for their deposits and whether they're safe and many of them opting to take their money out and have the question answered later. that's the problem. we'll have more after this. ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf

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i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so glad we did this. i'm so... ...glad we did this. [kid plays drums] life is for living. let's partner for all of it. i'm so glad we did this. edward jones neil: all right, before we go to connell mcshane update out on some folks leaving high tax states. i want to bring you up-to-date on this market sell-off down over 500 points, j abdomen j one

of the few hold outs among issues not taking the heat, a lot of this with job openings falling to 9.59 million. so that would have been enviable a little more than a couple of years ago. it is down substantially almost 3 million from its highs and the lowest level we've experienced in two years and it's picking up steam. in other words we've seen this three months in a row, so the concern about the economy and whether it's slowing down too much, forget about prices and whether the federal reserve is overreacting too much. oil right now at this point is down about 5% and when you see that, you see things like oil companies like chevron down 5%, exxon-mobile down 5%. you've got occidental petroleum down close to 3%, devon energy down close to 6%. you know the drill, not good for drillers see what i did there? basic cable just thought i'd pass that along. all right basic other fact we're looking at is people leaving high price areas, in droves, and

it's pick-up steam and largely from states and municipalities that have high taxes and very expensive lifestyles that aren't really, well, suiting those who once lived there. connell mcshane has more. hey, connell. connell: neil we've heard this before and it's just a new twist on that established story in many ways. the new twist is the latest irs figures that we have in now and they show what we would expect. that new york and california and some of these other big blue states indeed are taking a sizable financial hit and that's the point here. a big financial hit when you have tax paying residents continue to move away. where we're standing here in midtown manhattan on a gloomy tuesday weather-wise is the front and center piece of all of this. we know that fewer people work in this city now. the office vacancy rate hit an all-time high but the state of new york is also continuing to lose residents and that translates into tax dollars. if you look at it by the numbers , new york is now down by $24.5 billion in 2021

compared to $19.5 billion in 2020 and $9 billion in 2019. the other states we're looking at include illinois, of course so many people have left the city of chicago, losing 10.9 billion in 2021 much more than we saw the year before, even the year before that as the trend only gets worse and then of course, there's california. i mean, california, it's over 29 billion in 2020. that's about triple what we saw before that pre pandemic days, so these are kind of the big losers on the map, and if those are the losers i'm sure you can guess some of the winner s, and florida has to be right at the top of that list of course no state income tax in florida and the state continues to take in new residents from the states we've mentioned and from others adding $39 billion in adjusted gross income in 202t came from here in state of new york. the other winners include texas benefiting still at a big way about half its increase came from california, so we're seeing

this trend continue, even get worse from the perspective of some of the blue states, neil , as we're just talking about high profile examples. i'll say that other states, nevada, arizona, even washington state, are also beneficiaries, especially from people leaving california, but this is having a big financial impact on the blue states. neil? neil: what was interesting about that, a lot of the data isn't in yet from 2022 while it really accelerated. connell: if you look at the trends because it started pre- pandemic 2020 gets worse, 2021 much worse than that it'll be interesting to see you're right how much worse maybe it gets from the blue states perspective last year. neil: got it thank you, my friend, phil wegman real clear politics white house correspondent. phil you're at the white house and you're studying what's going on in these largely big blue states where this phenomenon is sort of unfolding. are you worried? >> [laughter] well, what i'm hearing right now is a lot of republican operative s looking at the data that mcshane just pointed out a second ago and they are looking

at the map wondering how they get to 270 next year because that's the electoral college total that is going to determine the next president of the united states. these demographic trends mean that republicans have to figure out a way to be competitive, not just in deep red states like florida but have to figure out a way to compete in purple or blue states like pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, north carolina, georgia, and arizona and so i think that the story that we are going to be following this year and next year is what republican candidate for president cannot only bring out the base in red states but who can actually appeal to some of these moderate s who stuck around in blue states. neil: let me ask you about candidates right now because two who aren't even in the race technically are raising a whole lot of money as if they already are declared presidential candidates. i'm talking senator tim scott of south carolina who raised over $20 million, you know, i know florida governor desantis has

raised five times that amount, but between these two guys you're looking at $120 million and neither has formally declared. what is that telling you? >> well that tells you they are serious about running for president. no one puts tens of millions of dollars in the bank in donor money if they aren't actually going to move forward and do something. we will see how florida governor ron desantis is able to move around with that cash and is able to take some of those state donor dollars and apply them to a federal race, but i think that what this essentially shows you is a sort of proof of concept, for both scott and desantis. the donors have already bought in. they have put their money where their mouth is and said we think these guys have a message that can resonate with voters and we'll give them the life blood for the political machine that is going to allow them to campaign. if i was donald trump or another rival candidate, i be looking at these numbers and wondering, you know, how long are they going to stick around

because maybe they don't have a big day in iowa or south carolina but they will stay around and potentially siphon off votes for a long time for as long as that money lasts. neil: thank you, my friend, on all of that, in the meantime jonathan korpino will be joining us the nyse equity trader and it might not be as bad as it appears, but there's some underpinnings particularly for banking that bear watching. he's next. (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over?

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neil: all right, worry. that pretty much sums up the mood for the moment at the corner of wall and broad right now. worried about u.s. stocks right now, and about banks and whether they can still hang on there, amid some concerns that

certainly regionals like pac west are taking it on the chin so maybe another rescue could be in the making there. then you've got all these other developments like waiting for the fed decision tomorrow, expected to be a quarter point hike but we don't know right now in this environment whether that means it's just one and done and after may they just go away, just don't know. also waiting on the apple results, the jobs data on friday , a lot to chew on. jonathan korpino with us. jonathan, worry is aplenty. are you worried? >> good afternoon, thanks for having me on. neil, clearly, there are things worrying this market and as of right now, yes. i do have some concern as to what's occurring in the regional banks so we saw back this up a few weeks we've saw this whole thing play out and how it got us to last week with frc, so what happens now, right? we're starting to see a little bit of this moving into the contagion effect. we've got other banks within the sectors here that are seeing

significant pressure on it. two reasons why. one is they, in fact, might have the same type of investments that the prior banks have had and we saw how that all played out for them and two is guilty by association, right? we've seen this happen in these other banks, so it must be happening in these other regional banks too. all of that coupled together is putting it to the point where we're seeing this pressure and now that's adding to everything else that's coupled into this market. as you said on your lead-input the fed into that conversation, fed is in meetings now, what are they discussing? it seems to me that they are very tight on their 25 basis point increase in the rate tomorrow, but the wording of what they're looking at what they are going to try to potentially show us what they are going to do moving forward i think we were hoping for a pause i don't think we're going to get that terminology based off the headlines we've seen the last few weeks and that's adding to the more pressure we're seeing on the market right now so put all of that together and we'll continue to see this until we get through

tomorrow's announcement. neil: yeah, so expectations are that they were just going to hike in may and go away. that might not be a slam dunk. on the bank thing, you can help me out with this , jonathan, because it just reminds me of the very slow moving train wreck nothing like the fast meltdown conditions certainly in the financial crisis, and i don't even want to dare compare the two, but the drip-drip nature of it is something that's always out there for investors. they thought yesterday after jpmorgan scooped up republic, we didn't have to worry about it and then low and behold we find yeah, you still to worry about it. are you worried about it? >> i am, because unfortunately, the reality of this is, you've got four major banks, five major banks that are out there and we've seen many businesses and individuals pull money out of regional banks and put them into the larger banks. that is just a trend that's continuing and that's that fear that individuals or company owners have, right? and if that continues, once again, guilty by association, contagion effect, snowball,

whatever you want to call it that trend, if that continues, we're going to see other regional banks go down for no reason, for no fault of their own. it's just going to be the way the money is going to flow from the smaller ones to the larger safer ones, so unfortunately, we have to see this play out. in the beginning of this , once we got through the first two or three, i thought the dust was going to settle but it seems to me that the headlines are still there and of what we saw this past weekend, what we're seeing in trading activity today , there's still some smoke there. neil: do you think any of this could be the markets reflection or maybe in patience with washington not dealing with this debt ceiling mess? i'm not trying to compare it to the tarp frustration or the dow fell 777 points in the fall of 2008 because they didn't get their act together and approve that bank rescue, if you will, but that they're getting a ntsy. >> i think that they are separate. we probably could draw a few

lines there. neil: right. >> i think the debt ceiling situation is a political situation. it's political headlines. it's trying to see whose going to become the victor out of this where there really is no victor so i think that is somewhat separate. i do think from the regional banks it's not a systemic issue. it's not a systemic problem like we saw in 2009 but it's going to be more of just personality. it's going to be more of psychological activities when you put your head on the pillow at the end of the night where do i feel the safest for my money? i've talked to some small company owners that have money in regional banks. they feel good there. they've got long relationships. it's long history. they're happy there and i'm advocating for them and i'm advocating for those banks. you've got others who have got a lot of exposure that they say you know what? i think that i need to make this shift so it's going to be a big push and pull here, i think what we're seeing is that rotation out of the regional banks and that might hurt that sector. neil: and any development liked

to, you know, obviously fuels it all the more. jonathan thank you so much good seeing you again. >> sir, always a pleasure. neil: all right i want to go to brian brenberg what's coming up on "the big money show", 14 minutes away. brian: hey, neil. well, the intelligence may be artificial but the threat is very real. ai leading to thousands of job cuts and will we see another bank failure this week? we'll ask ceo and chairman jason trenner at the top of the hour. more "coast to coast" right after this. ♪

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neil: all right, there's a bipartisan pile-on on these new mortgage rules that give breaks to those with lower credit scores. some say at the expense of those with higher credit scores, stacey garety the pennsylvania treasurer among some 27 states leading this pushback against these rules. the treasurer kind enough to join us now. very good to have you. >> thanks for having me, neil. neil: tell us what bugs you most about this and why you want to put a stop to it? >> yeah, so it's just another example of the biden and his administration, president biden,

chipping away at the american dream. they are hurting people who play by the rules with these new mortgage fees, just like they are trying to hurt people who play by the rules with student loans. neil: so the white house comes back and says, you know, technically that's not what's going on we actually crunched the numbers, comparing someone with a higher credit score versus the lower credit score, and the higher credit score person is paying more in terms of closing costs under this arrangement, that is the lower credit score applicant paying a lot less, so it is tilted that way. in fact, that feature went away, would you be happy then? the mortgage rules as they stand before all of this. >> well, yes, but you know, we all want to increase homeownership across the great country, neil, but there are other ways to do it. this is nothing more than a middle class tax hike which will cost americans millions of dollars, and the timing is just awful.

neil: all right, let's talk a little bit about the backdrop for this. some people say that it's a way to get more people into homes, make it easier for folks to get mortgages. the fact of the matter is this would address closing costs not the mortgage that you're ultimately given, or proved for , so the administration has come back to say, wait a minute. we're trying to give them a break when they get to the closing, not a breakthrough out the life of the loan. what do you say? >> well it dependses on how they, if they do it in their closing costs or roll it into their mortgage. for example, if you have a mortgage of $400,000 that is 6% interest rate, that will cost $ 40 a month more which doesn't sound like a lot but over 30 years it's over $14,000, which you could buy a car with, or pay for a year of college tuition so it is a lot of money. neil: we'll watch it closely stacey garrity, thank you very much. 27 states are a part of this now pushing back against the biden administration saying we don't

need that kind of help. you're going to make things a lot worse, and again, pointing to the big mortgage boom and lending boom that we had before it went bust. hard to say whether that happens here or whether that's the trigger, but that's what they're watching. we're also watching strikes that are very much in vogue right now one concern is american airlines , still another hollywood writers. we connect, you decide. ♪ we're not gonna take it, no, we ain't gonna take it, we're not gonna take it, anymore ♪

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neil: this to be a job way for those hearing computers or technology taking over their jobs. ibm and hunting it is going to pause hiring for jobs that ai could do. artificial intelligence. it is not definitely saying they are all going to be replaced by machines but exploring the possibility. not greeted well on wall street but other factors going on. luke lloyd is with us. i wanted to get his reaction to that. we will see more signs of this. what do you think? >> if we take a step back to the early 2,000s, technology displaced job but created new jobs, higher paying jobs but 90% of all data ever has been produced the last two years,

technology grows twice as fast every year and a half and currently we are at the lowest parts productivity rate in us history. amazon, meta, google and microsoft mention ai 170 times last week in the earnings call. i'm concerned about whether we are close to the tipping point where technology replaces jobs without creating new ones. it's great for those who own stock in businesses initially until the unemployed don't have money. everyone talks about how we have the most job openings in history but a lot of that came from the access from the government had the fed. if there's a shift in an employment upwards, the only answer pushed on us is socialism, redistribution of wealth, universal basic income, a perfect utopia would be nice but people need to be productive and add value for the system to work. if you don't believe me, read and watch the time machine by hg wells, it has a deeper meaning in my opinion. neil: you are thinking too much.

let me get your take on the backdrop of this economy. we are learning pilots at american airlines could strike, 99% rejecting our contract they said was too onerous. they are open to a strike. hollywood writers looking at a strike that is dislodging and disrupting some shows. the strike strategy is alive and well. more people fear what could happen to their planes getting delayed. this is alive and well. >> people are the most important thing to any business, life is about people. we tend to forget that in today's world. the biggest thing is human productivity. the cool thing about business is things are out of whack him a there is something to reset it. the most productive rise to the top and get what they want and the least productive get replaced. of these technological change happen where people evaluate

time and comfort more, it's not just about the paper quality-of-life and debility. the problem is we have an education issue. when it comes to airlines, it used to be you went to the airport, thank you for your service, went to the air force for 10 years, then the airlines for 30 years and make great money. airlines are pushing people to get trained that aren't from the air force. as many people going into the military, airlines have to invest more in the training component and that's not good for the margins of airlines. neil: it is not good for the markets. i leave you with the dow down 475 points. concerns about the economy and everything else. brian: we are watching the dow. hello, everyone. brian: i'm brian brenberg. jackie: i'm jackie deangelis. taylor: and i'm taylor riggs. welcome to "the big money show".