interesting. jack: and who doesn't love industrial gases, you know? all right. thanks, ben, carlton and jack. check out this week's edition at barron's.com. don't forget to follow us on twitter @barron's online. we'll see you next week on "barron's roundtable". ♪ thank you so much. happy father's day. >> from the fox studios in new york city, this is maria bartiromo's "wall street." maria: and happy weekend to all. welcome to the program that analyzes the week that was and helps position you for the week ahead. i'm maria bartiromo. thanks so much for joining us

this weekend. face to face after four months of delay, secretary secretary of state antony blinken in beijing for high stakes talks between the united states and china. it comes just days after a phone call where his chinese counterpart reportedly told blinken to show respect and stop meddling this china's affairs. -- in china's affairs. the u.s. state department already downplaying expectations of any kind of breakthrough or transformation from this trip as china's xi jinping warns of worsening relations with the west. urging his country to prepare for, quote, extreme scenarios. chairman of the house select chief on china, congressman mike gallagher, recently wrote an op-ed in the "wall street journal" slamming the administers' failed -- administration's failed china approach, and he joins me now. congressman, thanks so much for being here. >> good to be with you. maria: well, the fact that there was a phone call between blinken and his counterpart in china and

they basically said stop meddling, show some respect, that sets the tone for this meeting, doesn't it? what do you think comes out of it? >> it does. it reminds me of the dressing down that our diplomats got many in their first engagement that the biden administration did in alaska where they were yelled at for 15 minutes by their chinese counterparts. my broader concern is what this means for u.s. policy. and i worry that like a zombie in a horror movie rising from the grave, engagement with they that is back from the dead. they're resurrecting economic and diplomatic engagement as the central pillar of their approach to china for fear of provoking xi jinping or in order to reduce tensions. and beyond the fact that this is this has not worked for nearly 30 years, the problem is that the ccp exploits our ardent pursuit9 of meetings and photo ops as an opportunity to advance their agenda, their totalitarian, anti-american agenda. so when filtered through the ideology of a marxist-lenin

leninist regime, that olive branch really becomes an invitation to aggression. and furthermore and finally, we slow roll this pursuit of sitting down at the table, we will slow roll long overdue defensive actions like export hiness to huawei, sanctions on genocidal ccp officials, transparency on the spy balloon and the cuba spy base just in order to the to get to the negotiating table. thus, the price of zombie engagement is the death of common sense steps we need to take to defend our country. maria: yeah, it's a great point. and you wrote all of that in your op-ed e in the journal. you know, i was talking with michael mccaul, chairman of foreign affair, who told me that in a speech that xi jinping gave back in 2020, i looked it up and, in fact, he did say this in a speech in 2020, xi jinping said we have to get the world to rely on the china supply chain in order to turn it off when we want to. the whole goal here so to get the world to be so reliant on

china that they can hold back the necessary items that the world needs whenever they want to. we felt that way during covid. so why are we even trusting that they are going to do the right thing when time after time they continue to break the rules on the global stage the, if you will? >> well, chairman mccaul is exactly right, and i think the key point here for all the hand-wringing in washington, d.c. and this new york in particular about -- and in new york in particular about selective decoupling or derisking and all the phrases they're throwing around, the reality is that xi jinping and the chinese communist party can be consistently and -- have been consistently decoupling from us for many years now. maria: that's right. >> a concerted strategy for decoupling from america and then increasing the leverage they have to coerce us and the world economically. they are trying to wean themselves off critical

dependencies. tear trying to make sure foreigo make sure foreign countries can't spread information on their digital platforms. they won't let other governments buy up frontier technologies or critical infrastructure like ports. but when we decide we want to do things like this, everybody freaks out on wall street or on k street or in the think tank community. we need to take steps to not only stop funding our own destruction with american capital, but also start to reclaim our economic independence from the chinese communist party. because what would happen if they actually tried to take taiwan by with portion? well, they're going to weaponize all these supply chains. they're going to weaponize pharmaceutical ingredient supply chains. maria: yeah. >> they're going to go to the mattresses to bring with us to to our knees, so we need to reduce their leverage and increase our deterrent posture. maria: why are we allowing all these unwitting investors to invest this chinese companies that are either sanctioned, on the entities list or tied to the

communist military? >> well, this gets to the risks of the revial of economic engagement -- revival. this is the cost of zombie engagement because what's happening right now as administration's going all in on these diplomatic meetings and janet yellen is out there giving speeches saying we need a healthy economic relationship with china, we need to foster growth and innovation in both countries and china can play by the international roles, well, the executive order on guardrails for outbound capital has been shelfed for now. regardless, congress needs to take action to make sure we are not funding our own destruction. andy barr's working on this, members of the select committee on china and the financial services committee. i'm cautiously optimistic that in this congress we can pass a sensible framework that cuts off the flow of u.s. capital to chinese military companies and technology companies perfecting surveillance in -- and genocide. maria: i want to go back to the intellectual property issue

that's been going on decades. you wrote a letter to attorney general merrick garland to investigate china's stealing of intellectual property. i know this has cost u.s. companies hundreds of billions of dollars, $600 billion a year, hitting small businesses hardest, congressman. and i want to get your take on this. john ratcliffe told me that the ccp's strategy is career -- clear, it's rob, replicate, replace. they rob you, they want to replicate your products and eventually replace you. is this what's going on with the i.t. theft, intellectual property theft? >> 100%. john ratcliffe, i love that framework. and that's a message that we need to send is to the business community which is eager to go back to the late are 9199 -- 1990s and deepen our trade and dependency on china. continues to go on -- this continues to go on. just look what's a happened in the last five months as we've been chasing the ccp around the world. they raided the beijing offices of three separate american

firms. they targeted micron in an effort to croix its china business. they rebuffed our secretary of defense's attempts to talk to them and nearly collided with american forces in the air and at sea during unprofessional intercepts. so the more we ignore the aggressive behavior, the worse it gets. and it's not a coincidence that the more the administration is pining to get to the negotiation table, the more escalatory beijing's behavior as has become because they know they can get away with it. so it's time we stand up, it's time we protect our intellectual property and our sovereignty, right? maria: yeah. >> this is also absurd stuff like illegal communist party police stations on american soil. it's an affront to american sovereignty, is what it is. maria: yeah. i mean, that's total arrogance, to start a police station in the united states. isn't this partly the u.s.' fault? because we sent all the business to china. we wanted cheap products. we sent the production and the supply chains there so that we could make it in china and make it cheap, and then here you've

got labor group -- unions running the show when it comes to wages. so everybody wants cheap labor rather than market forces. >> yeah, we made a big bipartisan mistake, a big bet that doing that would also moderate the ccp's behavior. obviously, that didn't happen. it did not work. which gets to my core point when it comes to so many -- zombie engagement. to return to that naive fantasy would be a massive, massive mistake. let's not tell ourselves a fairy tale about an imagined china that does not exist. we need to get more aggressive, we need to defend ourselves before it's too late. maria: congressman, we're going to be watching it. we appreciate your time. thank you, sir. >> thank you. maria: congressman mike gallagher this weekend. stocks meanwhile, continuing a climb this week, but my next guest says do not get used to a bull market. where famed invest ♪

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maria: welcome back. here's a look at where markets ended the week after the federal reserve paused its rate hikes and key reports showed that inflation is rising at a slower pace, but it is still high. my next guest says that the fed needs to drive the country into a recession to bring inflation down effectively. joining me right now is the bear trap's founder and editor larry mcdonald. larry, great to see you. thanks so much for being here. >> hey, maria. thanks very much. maria: we've got to talk about the macro story and markets. you're also predicting that the s&p 500 will tall nearly 30% by december -- will fall. you made a similar call back in march calling for a 30% crash within 60 days that did not materialize. how is this different and what is your sense of markets today, larry? >> yeah. well, in early march we looked at the banking system, and since then internally in the market there was a crash within the

banks, the retailers -- maria: yes, there was. >> -- even the transports. but now if you look at what's happening with core inflation, it's extremely sticky. and government spending is up 10% year-over-year. so the fed has a huge problem because core inflation's very high, extremely high, and powell mentioned it six times. and then at the end of the day, you've got government spending that's is so strong that it's actually not allowing -- like, 70 million americans, 70 million americans got a c.o.l.a. adjustment, a raise, from social security and disability. and so it's a cost of living, you know, what we call an inflation adjustment higher in income. so hay get a raise. and that's, there's a lot of sticky factors on inflation which keeps the fed not really -- like, the nasdaq right now is priced for the old days, for 1% inflation. and in the old days when we had, when we got this close to

recession, we would quickly go back to 1 president inflation, the -- is -- 1% inflation, fed would with cut rates aggressively. the nasdaq's priced for that, and that's where most of the capital is in the market. $17 trillion in the nasdaq, 18 trillion in the nasdaq 100 now, and so that is a lot of money crowded in that one space. and if we don't get, if we don't get that fall in inflation, that sector's in a lot of trouble. maria: yeah, no, you're right, larry. and i've got to to say, you know, we've got institutions continuing to preponderate an economy that will -- expect an economy that will continue to worsen. look, we don't know how impact will play out after ten rate hikes, right? i mean, they say that it's expected to take a year to the 18 months to have full impact. so do you still can't we'll see a recession later this year? >> yes. and i'll tell you, a lot of our viewers are probably in the market, and i want them to think

about something. between 1998 and 2000 to you look at bank lending, okay, and i could show the chart, whatever, but bank lending if you just looked at it, the easing standards of bank lending exploded. so the availability of bank lending from 1998-2000 exploded in a very, very high, accelerated pace. and that's because of the long-term capital bailout. and that's what fueled the dot.com revolution, right? and so now a lot of people are embracing that same mentality. but if you look under the surface, bank lending is exploding tighter or. delinquencies are exploding on credit cards, on auto loans. banks are retrenching from lending. maria: yeah. >> and so you just don't have -- the tech story is great looking out, you know, ten years with a.i., and it's going to make a lot of companies more efficient. i see the bull case.

but, you know, we're kind of in the eye of the storm, right? maria: yeah. >> we had the first part with the regional banks, now we're in the eye, and then we're going to have, like you said, the implications of all those rate hikes on financial conditions on the consumer side is about to explode in the second half of the year. maria: it's a great point. larry, good to see you. thanks very much for being here this weekend. >> thanks, maria. maria: we'll see you soon is. larry mcdonald joining us. a one-two punch for consumers, grocery prices is and retail crime still the on the rise. supermarket billionaire john catsimatidis on that, an the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back

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maria: welcome back. to do prices still spiking despite inflation easing more than expected in the month of may compared to this time last

year. we've seen a 6.7% spike in the price of groceries. a recent report warns that greed-flation, could be fueling this, accusing companies of leaving prices elevated as their input costs actually begin to ease. joining me right now is a man who would grow, radio talk show host john catsimatidis. john, great to see you. welcome. >> always good to see you, maria. and prices are remaining up right now. they've been going up because of the confusion, ceos don't know which way to go. they don't know if they should zig or zag because of the leadership worldwide. the fact is, and me and you have talked about it, is oil is down to $68 a barrel six weeks ago, then saudis and the russians found a reason to bring it up to

$80. then everybody found out that they lied, it's back down to 68. and, again, last sunday the saudis tried to increase it. so food ceos, what happens is they don't want to the take a chance of disappointing wall street. so until they crush what's going on in the white house, until they trust what's going on in the worldwide market, they're not going to lower their prices. maria: well -- >> and it's not their fault. like any other ceo on wall street, they're scared of disappointing wall street. you know, i run a private company. i'm not scared of disappointing wall street because i run a private company. but ceos that run public companies are scared to disappoint wall street because if you're off by a penny, guess what? you're going to be trashed.

maria: well, maybe. but, john, let's face it, a year ago inflation at the cpi level was all the way up to 9.1%. we're down to 4%, okay in it's time to cut prices because they're coming down on the consumer level and the input level, and yet at the grocery level at the cash register people aren't feeling it. now they want to blame people like you and the heads of these grocery stores for keeping prices elevated. is this about greed? >> absolutely not. it's not the grocery stores. it's not the supermarkets. we reflect the prices that we buy it from the manufacturers. it's the manufacturers, it's the procter & gambles of the world -- maria: okay. >> they're the ones that set the pace. we, with we make our normal margin. we make our normal margin to pay our employees, to i pay our rents, to pay all our expenses.

and traditionally the supermarkets make 2, 3%. and i, if you look at all the public statements, i don't think any supermarket chain is lighting the world on fire. maria: okay. >> it's the manufacturers that you have to address that to. maria: well, how long is this going to go on? what do you expect in terms of inflation the rest of the year? because you add on top of that the cost of retail crime, it's costing business nearly $100 billion. lawmakers are now considering a federal response, introducing a bill aimed at stopping the resale of stolen merchandise, john. i mean, look, you saw home depot, target, others all talk about shrink. what did they mean by shrink? theft. all their products are getting stolen. >> maria, all the democratic cities -- san francisco, chicagp the sidewalks, maria. i mean, it's it's, it's what's happening with this bail reform

type stuff. and if you don't make the citie. the inner city supermarkets are getting hurt -- maria: yeah. >> and it's manufacturers making the decision. they need confidence, maria. they need confidence in the white house that they're not going to let the russians and the opec countries, the saudi arabias take control and bring oil back to '80, $90. maria: yeah. well, you always bring it right back to oil which, of course -- >> that's where it started from. maria: yes, no, i understand. real quick before you go, one cnn ceo, chris electric, was out at -- licht was out at cnn. you wanted to buy it, why? >> cnn only has 400,000 viewers every night in the united states, something like that,

4-500,000. i told them i'll cert certify it, i'll have it up to 2 million in one year. maria: so you're still considering buying cnn? >> confidential. listen, i don't care about buying or joint ventures or anything like that. maria: okay. what do you mean you don't care about it? >> in other words, i'm not saying i have to buy it. maria: aha, so you could do a joint venture. i gotcha, okay. john, it's great to catch up with you. lots of ininfo there. thank you so much. >> have a great weekend. maria: and to you. john catsimatidis. my relationship with my credit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college, and no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. the high interest... i felt trapped. debt! debt! debt! debt! so i broke up with my credit card debt and consolidated it into a low rate personal loan from sofi. i finally feel like a grown-up. break up with bad credit card debt.

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person on average, up 14% from this time last year. we're e keeping an eye on your money on "mornings with maria" every weekday 6-9 a.m. eastern on fox business. and then i'll see you over on fox news channel on sunday, 10 p.m. eastern, sunday morning on fox news channel, exclusive interviews on "sunday morning futures" with congressman michael waltz and marjorie taylor greene, also francis suarez, my special guest. hope you'll join us then. thank you so much for being with us, sending you best wishes for a happy father's day to all. have a great rest of the weekend. i'll see ♪ ♪ barron's round table sponsor by: ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome t