venture capital funding, a huge slowdown, you know, also in in the feeling that you'll be able to raise that next round. so before in 2020, 2021, even if your company wasn't doing pretty well, you had a decent chance of finding somebody who would want to keep investing. that's changed tremendously. and as that's changed, what you're finding is that people are are calling it quits i think sooner which isn't is necessarily a bad thing. charles: right. >> [audio difficulty] charles, no i agree. listen, if it's not worthy of to going publishing let's not take them public. sarah, i wish we had more time. we'll have you back a whole lot to help us hash please through. in the meantime, here's liz claman. liz: oh, yeah. you know what, charles? it's within -- one of those days where where we have multiple breaking news plates spinning in the our. and here goes. in just the last couple of minutes, this: bank of

california is spiking while pacwest that's one of the regional banks that endured wild gyrations many march and april, is falling. "wall street journal" says bank of california is in advanced talks to buy pacwest in a movely by the lenders to further shore themselves up following the regional banking crisis earlier this year, march, to be exact, when silicon valley bank immoded, totally collapsed because it had misread the treasury markets, and its balance sheets started to get extremely weak. right now pacwest is plummeting about 10%, and we've got bank of california up 13 if %. 13%. you can see right around march where pacwest started to gyrate, mostly fall, of course, as we know. signature bank also went urn. first republic, during the crisis, had to be bought by jpmorgan. a deal could be announced as soon as toed. okay, there's that, miss we are now about a 23 hours away from what is expected to be the

federal reserve's # 11th interest with rate hike since a year ago march. but tomorrow in this hour fed chair jay powell will be speak live right here on "the claman countdown" on what the central bank might be mulling for the three meetings left in 2023. it's a must-see show, 3 p.m. eastern tomorrow. make sure you're there. now, to the here and now, microsoft and alphabet are about to report quarterly earnings after the bell, microsoft up 1.5%. google-alphabet about 1 percent higher. we're going to be talking how many times both of these companies mention a.i. during their conference call. last season microsoft mentioned it 50 times on the earnings call. google went beyond that. google mentioned a.i., or artificial intelligence, 64 finals. but it has certainly, their footprint in artificial intelligence has certainly helped these companies. we'll see what happens after the bell with their numbers. the dow looks to notch its 12th gain in a row, the longest streak since february of 2017.

right now a chunk of the 60-point gain due to 3m. take a look at the dow heat map. 3m has the baton firmly in its hands, it is streaking to the top of the dow heat map after the maker of scotch tape and post post-it notes hiked its full-year profit forecasts, that gain of 5% means the stock is at a 4-month high. you can see to the right of it dow inc., the chemical giant, actually reversing premarket losses after second quarter profit and revenue beat analyst estimates. dow did say it will cut 5% of its work force to achieve its promise of $1 billion in cost savings in this year. earnings are also pumping up the s&p. looked at packaging corp. of america, it is muscling right to the tomorrow -- top of the s&p, the leaderboard there a bit crowded. we've got that gain pushing pkg to a 1 is-year high after a profit beat, ge also mashing --

smacker its previous 1-year high, it's at 116.95, that's a gain of 6% for ge. looks like the effort to position itself as a leader in aviation has pulled the stock out of extreme turbulence. disaster due can injury, spotify. i mean, you're looking at shares that are down 13.25%, a revenue miss and a wider operating loss. ceo says he is not worried, though, about tiktok as' growing influence in the music industry where all the dancers are picking their favorite music, and it's actually moving the needle on on music sales. spotify shares have actually been a real winner this year, let's keep that in mind, up 79% year to date. we haven't even gotten to the contract ups reached with the teamsters or what happened in china overnight. but let's get right to the floor show, trader kenny polcari for all of that. kenny, i'm already exhausted. [laughter] what's most important, microsoft earnings, the dow winning

streak, the fed, you name it? what do you think? >> listen, i think it's all very exciting, and i think in their own right each one is very important. what we hear from fed chair jay powell tomorrow, you know, the 25 the basis points, that's already baked in. but what's he really going to say about august, september, into october. we've got three more fed inflation reeds before september meeting. i still think they're going to go again in september. i actually want them to go again in september because i want them to be sure that they are done with this inflation story and that they're going to finally -- liz: okay. google and microsoft after the bell. what are you looking at? are you buying ahead of it? you tell me where you stand on these names. >> i'm not. i own microsoft, you know that. i do not own google as an individual name. it's part of my broader etf portfolio but not individually. look, i'm really paying attention to what they're going to say about a.i., you hit the nail on the head, how many times, what's it really mean? certainly, you're going to look at their revenues and the cloud computing and all the usual

stuff the everyone looks at. but quite honestly are, i think the focus is really going to be on the future and what they say about artificial intelligence and how it's changing their businesses. so, look, the market likes them, they're both up today. they've been acting beautifully all year. i think the only thing you might see is they might come out with a great report, but you actually may see that buy e the rumor, sell the news type of reaction as the trailer types -- trader types lock in some -- i'm bullish on both. i'm more bullish on microsoft just because i own it individually. so that's going to be what i'm looking for, certainly all the usual suspects, revenues, margins and all that stuff are going to be important. like i said, i think people are really going to drill down on what they say about a a.i. liz: doesn't this mean we have to look back with at china which is trying to i'm going to say catch up to us in the a.i. race. it feels like we're ahead, certainly, because of openai and the chat bot companies that are piling in. it's not like china's a total

disaster, but china making a big announcement overnight, and the word stimulus coming back into play. i think they're really worried about their economy, but it certainly powered the hang seng index up more than 4%. all of the markets were up. >> look, and and china, to the point, that's right, there's been a lot of concern about a how china's doing, are they slowing, are they not slowing, where are they going to be. and the announcement night did exactly that, ignited all this excitement and, actually, is igniting a lot of excitement globally about people looking in to china. i do not invest directly in china, because i think there are a lot of other places to place your money. china can change the rules on a dime at any moment, and investors don't really have a say over it, so i tend to invest in china through other things, like through apple, right? i get a lot of exposure to what's happening in china. but that being said, it has certainly created all kinds of

excitement, and i know there are a lot of analysts saying you've got to go all in on china at least for the next 6-8 months. that's great, but i'm not a china bull. i will not invest directly in china, i just won't. liz: i get it. could we just give a nod to ups and the teamsters' union? it looks like they have a tentative deal. i think the sticking point was the part-time workers. i did a whole tiktok on this just about an hour ago, so i want people to check in that out if they can, but the part-time workers are going to get a pretty decent pay raise, and they represent about half of the 330,000 delivery workers at a ups. >> right. liz: so, i mean, clearly labor is holding a key here. the stock may be selling on the news, down about 1%. >> i think labor is holding the key not only in ups, but, by the way, i never really thought that ups was going to allow them to strike. the workers had ups management over a barrel. they reported great numbers, they upped their guidance, everything is great just like

they did on ual, just like they did on american airlines. mary barra reported blow outnumbers and she has to negotiate with the union. these guys work hard, they want a piece of the pie, and they were going to get them. congratulations to them, i think it's right, and and i think they deserve it. i wasn't ever really worried about a strike, i just wasn't with. i didn't think they were going to push it there. liz: yeah. ups found some money in the couch cushions. they made $75 billion in profits last year on $100 billion in revenue. [laughter] >> exactly. so how can they turn around and say, jeez, we can't find the money. are you kidding me? [laughter] liz: i know. well, watch out for fed exbecause they're next possibly -- fedex. i think september they have to be watching -- >> and gm, i think, is going to be next too. liz: thank you, kenny, very much. folks, we need to check the clock, and here we go, the federal reserve's decision on interest rates is now 22 hours and 50 # minutes away.

the committee probably wishes that could be pushed to friday because that's when the u.s. bureau of economic analysis reveals the fed's favorite monthly inflation gauge, june pce. let's bring in former reagan economist art laffer. art, what's it going to show? is inflation dead, dying or alive and kicking? >> well, inflation has been very, very positive for the biden administration. it's been dropping substantially. especially core, liz. the core number dropped a lot the last measure. and that's very good news for this administration. but, you know honestly, inflation is not under control. the fed does not have a model that would allow it to have it under control for a long period of time. they're getting lower energy prices, lower other product prices, and all of that's working in their favor, but don't bet on the long run the fed has control over inflation. it simply does not. its policies are not correctly directed towards controlling long-term inflation, just not. liz: yeah. and we could look at cpi, consumer price index, that's a

different way of looking at things. at its high, june of '22, it was at 9.1%, rather, and the most recent read 3%. so we're looking a heck of a ho- >> it's a big drop. liz: -- better, certainly. >> yes. a -- liz: i think they're right on certain things, and that is don't get too excited. june, if you're looking at commodities, we got a bit of a scare. may we saw the bottoming of many commodities, and then they started to rear their head again, up more than 10%. >> that's right. liz: since may. and whether that's crude oil which, by the way, is getting awfully close to $80 a barrel right now, or some of the other things here, look at this quarter to date arbob gasoline up 10%. sure, nat gas is falling, but tell me your thoughts on what's causing that. >> we have a lot of cyclical stuff going on right now which is, you know, you're getting a recovery, it looks like the

market is doing very well. that dow, how many days has it been positive? 11 straight days, wow. liz: today would be the 12th. >> the 12th will be today if it makes it through the hour. liz, we've got a few minutes left are. [laughter] just joking. i don't know how you guys follow these stocks hour by hour, minute by minute, day by day. you just must be nervous wrecks at the end of the day. [laughter] but when you look at this, liz, you know, there is no guarantee that the inflation is urn control. we had a good month last month, this month, i don't think, is going to be quite as good good. but the long-term picture for inflation is not -- it's not under control. the fed doesn't know how to control it. you don't have a person there like paul volcker, alan greenspan. they're trying to lead interest rates and set interest rates, and they've got a balance neat sheet that's a little's handling monetary policy. liz: i wanted to ask you this question because you understand supply-side economics. why aren't we working on the supply sport of -- part of it

versus the demand? rising interest rates kill demand. we're kind of seeing that right now. okay, great. but why not increase supply so prices come down on their own and workers are still churning the stuff i out? >> you're being way too logical, liz. you're exactly correct on this. we should be having tax cuts, we should be having flattening of the tax base, we should be having spending control to bring the supply side back into play, sound money, we should surely have that, deregulation. all of that. we could get growth rates up in this country substantially. my guess is we could have a year or two of 5% growth if we just put in good tax and spending and regulatory policy, we could have that. and with an increase in the supply of goods and services, that will bring prices down. if you have a bumper crop in apples, what happens to the price in -- price? they fall. you're going to get lower inflation, not higher inflation. this idea that you can crush demand and bring inflation down,

it does work, but it just causes all sort of collateral damage to people's lives. and it's just not the right way to do it. you should use supply policies, as you say. liz: i need a bumper crop in justin's almond butter because it's $9 a jar -- >> oh, my god. almond butter. it's very, very goodment. liz: thank you so much. >> good to see you, lirkz. thank you very much. you have a great day. liz: you too. all right, we need to to look at an intraday picture of pacwest shares. the regional bank lore following this "wall street journal" report that broke i want to say about 16 minutes ago. advanced talks for a buyout. we are going to discuss this breaking news next with the father of the yield curve inversion theory who says the banking crisis is not behind us. in fact, he warns zombie banks are walking among the financial stocks. maybe right now, heck, you might own some of them. duke professor harvey campbell on how to spot these zombie

banks before it's too late. now pacwest, look at a your screen, is losing 23.33%, and it's the acquiree, i mean, it's the target of bank of california. we're going to talk about all of this and much more. we are about 45 minutes away from the closing bell. "the claman count down's -- count down's coming right back. dow's holding on to gains 0668 points. -- of 68 points. the the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ ♪ this is spring semester at over 13,000 us school districts, which have become top targets for ransomware attacks.

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liz: we should show you a 25 basis point hike expectation in interest rates to. here it is on your screen, 98.9 president of the market is pricing in that rate hike s. that it for this year after that? the fed says no, and the market's starting to believe it. to wit, yesterday fed funds

futures were pricing in a a 16% probability of another 25 a basis point increase in september. at this hour that number on your screen now at 20.6%. it is no secret that the rate hikes is have certainly affected the banking sector, but will more rate increases trigger more bank failures? duke university finance professor campbell march i i have is joining us now with a warning of what he calls the zombify case of banks. professor, if you haven't heard the news -- although i'm guessing you have -- it looks like pacwest, according to the "wall street journal," is in talks to be acquired by bank of california, two regionals that a make you wonder, was this really necessary? and are more of these banks in trouble than we know? >> yeah. you see a few cockroaches, and you know there's many more behind the wall. and to think that the three banks that went down in martha that's the whole story -- in

march that's the whole story is incredibly naive. the same sort of dynamics are affecting many different banks. the fed has hiked rates at a record pace, and that has hit banks in two ways. number one, profit profitability, because they pay a short rate and we see the long rate and, number two, as the long rate goes up, it damages their balance sheet. so their investments go town in value as the long -- go down in value as the long rate goes up. but there's more. and the other more factor is commercial real estate loans. is so banks are very willing to renegotiate right now because of their exposure to commercial real estate. and the situation's not good. most people know that the vacancy rate in san francisco for commercial real estate is 35%. so there are more shoes to drop. liz: yeah, i was kind of feeling that in my gut, and then you

hear nothing for the past two or three months and you think everything's fine, the fed says it is. but my gut, along with yours because we talked to you around that time and you did warn of this, and it's not that anything's failing at the moment, but you're starting to see some consolidation. maybe that's what's necessary. as we rook at inflation, you're saying the fed has to -- should have stopped by january, so they're way beyond that right now. can we talk about rental costs in the united states in because a good chunk of the cpi core even, can and also the pce, personal consumption expenditure number, has to do with what people pay in rent. and that needs to be taken into account. how are they looking at the moment? >> yeah. so it is really interesting, and i'm really glad that you're raising this issue and focusing on the inflation number. so think of it this way. inflation was 3% the last print. and the most important component

of inflation is shelter. it's a little over one-third the cost. shelter is running year-over-year in terms of the cpi release at 7.8%. finish -- so do a little math, one-third times 7.8, that is 2.7% of the 3. so 90% of the une nation print came from shelter inflation that is running at 7.8%. but we know from the data that that that's not the case. if you look at surveys of rents year-over-year, they're running at 1%, maybe 0%. housing prices have declined. so the shelter component is lagging. so if it was reflecting what was happening in the market today, the inflation wouldn't have been 3%, it would have been 1.5%. which achieves the fed's goal and totally undercuts the logic

of another hike or maybe a hike after that. liz: professor or, we're looking at -- [laughter] treasury yields, everything from the 1-month to the 3-month to the 6-month to the 12-month are at 5%. we're calling it the party of 5%. and as you look at what's happening with treasuries, i do just want to quickly ask you the final question, and that is, do you expect more so many -- so many by banks to fail? >> look, this is really interesting -- zombie banks. the money market rates are above 5%, the average savings rate for a savings deposit is .4%. and if you go to the too big to fail banks, if you bank with the too big to fail banks go ask what your savings deposit rate. at my bank it is 2 basis e points, .02%. liz: you immediate to get into a cd. they're all offering them.

>> yeah. and so that is a red flag that indicates a deeper or problem in the banking system. yes, of course, the too big to fail banks should have a lower rate because you get an insurance premium, but the gap between 2 basis points and 500 basis points, that is just too big. it is a sign of weakness in the banking system. something is wrong. we would like to think everything is fine, but manager is wrong and just -- something is wrong and just look at the numbers. liz: a warning from professor campbell harvey of duke. thank you very much, i think. i think. i'm keeping an eye, folks, on pac item west. it has dropped another percent here, it's it's lower by about 24.7% on news broken by the "wall street journal" that it's in talks with bank of california to be acquired. there is a a trademark trouble brewing for the new x company, that would be twitter. next, why one expert says there is a 100% chance the company

formerly known as twitter is going to get sued every that new name. plus, breaking news on the how house judiciary can committee's decision to cite meta's ceo mark zuckerberg for contempt of congress. closing bell, 35 minutes away. the dow still on track for an even dozen wins, up 66 points. s&p jumping 19 points. the nasdaq is up 117. we're coming right back. ♪ ♪ for an erc tax refund. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. [coughs] good to go. yeah, i think i'll get a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. no. i'm going to get a second opinion. with innovation refunds, there's no upfront cost to find out. so why not check like i did for my small business? take the first step to see if your small business qualifies for the erc.

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liz: we need to get you the very latest on a fox business exclusive that is breaking with at this hour. correspondent hillary vaughn reports that the house judiciary committee is moving forward with a hearing this thursday to cite meta's ceo mark zuckerberg for contempt of congress for refusing to produce materials regarding contented moderation. we said get hillary in the chair this washington d.c. she joins us now from capitol hill. hillary. >> reporter: hi, liz. well, what's interesting is meta knew this was coming. last week we broke the story that the judiciary committee was considering holding zuckerberg in contempt of congress if they did not hand over internal company documents that the committee says they need to comply with their subpoena request for information. today meta turn over more internal -- turn over more internal documents, but source ises on the committee tell us those internal documents are not

enough, and so the decision was made to move forward on thursday with this hearing to cite zuckerberg with contempt of congress. the the jewish dubly committee officially issued meta a subpoena for information back in february. in may chairman jim jordan followed up with the company to warn that their response was insufficient and that they were failing to comply. today meta handed over even more documents to the committee including internal company. communications. meta's spokesperson telling me, quote, we began sharing documents before the committee's february subpoena and is have continued to do so. to date, we have delivered over 53,000 pages of documents both internal and external and have made nearly a dozen current and former employees available to discuss external and internal matters including some scheduled this very week. but the committee says what meta has handed over still falls short. the committee report detailing their grounds for contempt saying this: the committee has a

particular need for meta's internal documents which would shed light on how meta understood, value waited and responded to the executive branch's requests or directives to censor content as well as meta's decision making process to censor viewpoints in the modern town square. now, if held in contempt, liz, zuckerberg could face up to a year in jail time and and a pretty sizable fine, but that's only if the doj or the u.s. attorney were to move forward to prosecute. if they don't, ultimately this could just be a symbolic gesture or a way for house republicans to put big tech on notice. liz? liz: well, both sides take a lot of money from the lobbyists in tech, so i won't hold my breath for. that good reporting, hillary. please interrupt us if you get anything more. the stock right now still up about 1%. meanwhile, another social media company seeing its fair share of turmoil. so yesterday, listen to this,

elon musk changed the name, you've heard about this, of twitter's platform to x. but as workers climbed up ladders to attempt to yank the old logo off the company's san francisco headquarters, the police showed up to halt the effort. but it's not just the physical remuscle of the logo that's causing -- removal of the logo that's causing problems. to susan li, potential legal trouble, serious ones, twitter could face with the new x rebrand. >> you know the facebook owner and zuckerberg also owned federal trademarks of the letter x, is so meta filed this copyright three years ago, and they have the trademarks for this x logo in blue and white. microsoft, meantime, also owns an x trademark if for xbox gaming, slightly different designs than, say, the black and white x logo that musk has now chosen, but they can still sue claiming infringements if other branding could cause consumer confusion i just got off the own with martin sorrell who is the

founder of the largest advertising company in the world, and i asked sir martin if he thinks musk should expect lawsuits on this. >> if i was using x, i probably would, yes. it's such a common symbol, as you say, he's bound to get significant litigation activity in terms of its use. >> so possibly more lawsuits, more controversial. what does this mean for brand value given that users in the market, this seems like a sudden pivot overnight from the iconic bluebird and tweeting to the x symbol. get used to that, liz. some put the brand degradation somewhere between $4-20 billion. remember that twitter is only worth $15 billion now according to fidelity, just a third of what musk paid for it. >> the brand has been affected. it has been diminished. it's not worth $# 4 billion -- 44 billion anymore, it may not be worth even half that figure.

but if he repots it, rebrands it, repositions it and and can gain traction in these other areas, it's a way through. >> conversations with brand experts, they say if there's one entrepreneur that nobody wants to bet against, it's definitely elon musk. also remember that musk himself has previously said that he wanted to change twitter and make it less reliant on advertising revenue can and get into other businesses and business streams like payments. so here we are with the everything app, it'll be interesting to see if he executes. liz: well, he -- man, he is very, very tough when it comes to going up against all the naysayers. but, yeah, i don't know, i'm not saying xeeting, sorry. [laughter] >> yeah. liz: thanks, susan. still ahead, north dakota governor doug bear gum, the latest 2024 gop presidential candidate to qualify for the debate stage. he joins me next. closing bell, 24 minutes away.

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liz: so we've already -- [laughter] pointed out many times, artificial intelligence has really reinvigorated tech and dominated the markets this year. if you look at the global x robotics and a.i. etf, 40 plus percent higher year to date. it is a brave new world with, and if anything demonstrates that, it's this: law enforcement officials are turning to a.i. to help track down potential criminals. let's go live to madison alworth in the fox business newsroom. police have found real success here but with a caveat, right? >> yeah, liz, they are using it with tech from the company recore. that's being used by police departments to better read license plates, track cars can and flag suspicious activities.

so that was the cause in march of last year when westchester county police pulled over a vehicle for going 15 miles per hour over the speed limit. but after their recore technology flagged the vehicle regularly made suspicious trips, the police also found crack cocaine, a pistol and $34,000 many cash hidden throughout the car of -- the car. and what they heard from the lawyer representing the defendant in this case is that he felt that they had gone too far. the driver pled guilty last month to drug trafficking and is awaiting sentencing, but his lawyer said that he through a motion that he put forth to suppress evidence, he argued the use of a.i. and license plate collecting was an overreach saying, quote, the breadth of this lpr, license plate reading, system is spectacular and amounts to a warrantless search. but here's the thing, license plate readers and road cameras, they're not new. being able to actually use all of the data that those millions

of cameras collect with the help of a.i., that is newer. and the president of recore is saying they are improving on a system that still requires human work. >> the notion of privacy in a public setting is kind of long behind us. every ring camera or doorbell camera, 50 million cc tv cameras are every everywhere, you need to do good, old-fashioned police work with, and this would help to zone in and more quickly identify where the problem is and where and how to respond so they can dive deeper. >> reporter: so part of the backlash from the public has been that people didn't realize just how many police departments were using recore technology. so recore or wouldn't give -- won't give a specific number of law enforcement partners, but i think did share with me they have coverage of around 95% of the roadways in the u.s. privacy and security experts is say backlash can be avoided if the public knows. >> be transparent about what you

do, how you use it, what or or you know, what kind of crimes you're addressing with it. >> reporter: so a.i. is here to stay. it's already been used widely within the police departments, there's just cases like in that bring it to the public knowledge that you understand just how often you're being watched and now that a.i. a's making that watching even easier and more successful. liz? liz: yeah. it's not new. i mean, ez-pass reads people's license plates too. madison, thank you very much. artificial intelligence is the biggest tech mover of the year, but will it be a hot topic at the presidential debates? the gop stage is growing at this hour as north dakota governor doug burgum becomes the newest name to officially qualify for the first presidential primary debate next month. he is now the seventh candidate to secure his ticket to milwaukee by collecting 40,000 plus donors with at least 200 unique contributors per state and wins above 1% at the polls. before taking office in 2016,

burr -- burgum literally bet the farm on a tech start-up that was later bought by microsoft for $1.1 billion back in 2001. with a mind for business, what is governor burgum's strategy for running the the biggest business in the country, the u.s. government? in his first appearance since qualifying for the debate stage, '24 presidential candidate and north dakota governor doug burgum. congratulations. this may feel really good. >> liz, great to be with you. it does feel great, and we had a grassroots effort from high school class are mates, college friends, people that were in the early days of great plains, family and friends for both katherine and i that reached out to their holiday card list, their business contact, and they're been getting together, they call themselves the sodbusters, and they really put the foundation behind getting us to 40,000 donors and thanks to all of them. liz: now the hard work begins. it is a critical opportunity,

this debate in front of so many viewers, to really show what you are all about to people well beyond your state. that is a challenge because everybody's scratching and fighting for just that moment, that sound bite during the debate. what is the most important thing you want for the people of america who are very concerned about the economy right now to understand that you can do better than any of these other people on the screen in -- screen? >> well, liz, i love when you call it ceo of america. make makes me think we should have a ceo actually in that job. having experience in the private sector seems to be a prerequisite. the economy is changing, it's changing rapidly. technology's changing every job, every company, every industry. it e needs to change how we do government as well with. this is something i've seen when i switched there being a ceo to being with governor of a state. and i've also seen how the federal government tries to bigfoot everybody. too much regulation on small businesses, big businesses and and, certainly, too muching

regulation on the states. we've got to shrink the size of the federal government back to its original intention, return the power to the states ask and get out of the way. this economy's crawling, it should be sprinting, and we sum all that up in one thing. we just say innovation, not regulation. innovation is how america has always won, that's how we're going to beat china and the odd world war we're in right now, through innovation, and that's what our administration will be focusing on. liz: yeah. and t not just artificial intelligence, although it feels like we're very much at the forefront of a.i. but how do you harness that and make sure it's still allowed to grow beyond government guardrails that may very well be necessary? >> well, it's not even just a.i. i mean, the simplest things, if you're in front of an audience of people in any state of america and say how many have a smartphone, they all do. how many have got 50 apps? yes. how many have 100 apps? yes. how many have an app on your phone from the federal government? consumers understand the apple app store and and buying

something online from amazon, and right now in north dakota we say let's treat the taxpayers like the customers they are, and government is 20 or 30 years behind in applying technology that could speed up how we deliver government services. the 2 million federal employees that we have, 10-20% of every job in the federal government is probably some mind-numbing, soul-sucking, repeptive work that could -- repetitive work, and let's get those federal workers back to the private sector. liz: let me dovetail to energy, both green energy and, of course, fossil fuels. obviously, we know -- you know a lot about both. but the lek relyification of the american automobile is forging ahead, and that's new the private sector. general motors, ford, all the international companies are doing it. where do you stand on that, and the dovetail, or at least some way of bridging the gap between them so that we do eventually find ourselves able not to be dependent on anybody else but this country for the energy

needs? >> well, first of all, agree, true energy independence is absolutely needed. and one thing about energy which is in the burgum administration we'll be selling energy to our friends and allies and stop buying it from our adder is shares. but on the electrification, the plan that's in place right now in the biden administration is not connected to physics, it's not connected to economics, it's not connected to common sense. we're subsidizing 500,000 ev charging stations, thames you can't permit a new -- at the same time, you can't permit a new transmission line, and the administration's trying to shut down all the baseload in our country. and we're going to subsidize the cars that need those 500,000 charges -- charging stations and and, of course, they have batteries, 85% of the rare earth minerals are controlled by china. so if you want to switch evs, that's just a horribly bad policy. and japan even last week, china's threatening to cut i off rare earth minerals just a few

weeks ago to japan. we would be completely beholden for all of our transportation on china. liz: we are starting to dig for those rare earth minerals here in the united states, but regulation seem to be choking it. governor, we want to is have is you back as we continue to physical all the candidates. thank you so much for coming on and introducing yourself to our viewers here on "the claman countdown." that glung -- >> that thank you, liz. liz: the dow still on track for its 12th gain in a row, we are coming right back. ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ ♪

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♪. liz: morgan stanley's mike wilson known as the biggest bear on wall street now retracting his claws and throwing in the towel n a note to investors the chief u.s. equity strategist at the bank abandoned his call for the s&p to drop dramatically this year. in his note he said, quote, we stood by that forecast for way too long. we were wrong. the 2023 story has been one of higher valuations than we expected amid falling inflation and cost cutting. now some would say that when the biggest bear on wall street throws in the towel that is the sign of a top? our "countdown closer" says, okay, maybe. in fact it may now be time to

craft and it plan, an exit strategy to get defensive in your portfolio because maybe it is the opposite, right? joining me doubleline chief investment officer jeffrey sherman. what do you make of mike wilson's move and what does it signal to you? >> kudos to mike for having the mea culpa today. liz: sure. >> you have an economy characterized by lower inflation rate than expectations t continues to deliver below the expectations even though the expectations for decline in inflation and you couple that with a stronger growth narrative so far but as you point out too, just because that's what's happened doesn't mean that's what which happen. we're still seeing things there are things slowing down. this does not mean equity valuation cannot continue to move in an upward trajectory as it has as the a.i. revolution has taken place here but when you look at the broad swaths of the economy there is some

trouble ahead. what's really, in the short term i think there is going to be this narrative you're going to probably get this dovish hike tomorrow from the fed where they're going to talk about potentially pausing and letting the data come through but also we don't forget as we have that construct and it is constructive behind what is has been going on in the economy you still have challenges coming forward. liz: oh, yeah. >> one thing i'm worried about the student loan forebearance programs are expiring at the beginning of september. i don't think we have a collapse in the economy in the third quarter but it is starting to really build, there are more challenges as we get to the early part of next year. liz: how do you pad your portfolio to endure any blows that might be coming and what's your timeline? should people start now gently to move being defensive? >> it is okay to be gently defense system own your stocks. own things that can have the upside, but when it comes to the

fixed income side of the portfolio, we're constructive in credit in the short term, there is lot of technicals and i issuance and supplying down meaningful this year and there is new bullish rhetoric in the marketplace which is having credit being well-supported right now i think are some levels people think about to trying to take this off the table. what you can do is still hide in short-term treasurys. you can things like t-bills that can be a bit defensive in your portfolio. also if you want to own stocks, you want to own riskier credit, the thing to help insulate some of that is owning some longer duration treasurys, things like the 10-year and 30 year treasury. if you notice, liz, since that adp report which kind of spooked the market a couple weeks ago, you've seen stability in rates. rates don't have to go down for to you make money at this point. they just need to go sideways as well. even if you have a slight push-up in rates with continued hiking from the fed. ultimately what it does it

allows you to pull income in your portfolio. we're thinking about ways to put the portfolio together, not get myopic on one single trade but think about in the context of that. we're still overweight credit. we still have the duration or treasurys we talked about the last time i was on your show, liz, in the portfolio. guess what, since the last time i have been on your show effectively rates have done nothing over your period of time. this defensive position isn't hurting you today. liz: isn't hurting us today. jeffrey, thank you. i think it is always important to say things get a little frothy you might want to put in a bid of insurance. [closing bell rings] great to have you, jeff sherman. here is the bell. with the dow gaining 2points at the moment it look to notch the 12th straight day of gains. longest streak since february much 2017. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. so when will they leave us