china, the threats that we're facing, and the united states is really doing nothing. we're playing catch-up every monday morning and having press releases and really working around a lot of their a mistakes. you mentioned afghanistan, you mentioned the deal brokered between saudi arabia and iran by china. it was huge, right under our noses. we didn't catch that at all. charles: i've got 20 the seconds. africa, there's a bunch of coups going on, feels like they're all former colonies of france. is that another example of what a we're talking about here? >> absolutely. every place where you're seeing this chaos, where you're seeing upheaval, it's because they know they can do it. they know this is the opportune time. charles: they're seizing the moment just like liz claman does every day at 3:00, right, liz? liz: i don't know, you were having a great conversation there. but while you were talking, the dow, charles, fumbled all 121 points of gains and is now down another 76 here. making new session lows in just

the past few minutes. the s&p 500 briefly dipped into the negative, right now it's up just by 3 points. and, of course, the nasdaq up 38 on your screen. the tech the sector, specifically the names driving the burgeoning growth of artificial intelligence, in very sharp focus at this hour from wall street to capitol hill. in fact, let's take you to d.c., if we can. we're going to show you a live picture of the room where it's the happening. the kennedy caucus room in the russell senate office building. tech i titanses are back behind closed doors with a bipartisan group of senators grappling with how to ring fence the dangers of the emerging technology without choking off innovation. right before the lunch break, look at this, fox business' hillary vaughn caught up with tesla's ceo elon musk. hillary is about to join us live from capitol hill to tell us what musk said about the kind of regulation that appears to be forming and coming down the pike. and, of course, on all the news coming out of the private forum

that, by the way, has drawn the tech the titans of the world. sam altman is the ceo of openai and chatgpt calling the meeting as a he arrive ared organized by senator chuck schumer of new york an urgent, unprecedented moment. you just saw microsoft cofounder bill gates. there's elon walking in. satya nadella is also in attendance. we'll get you the latest, as a i said, live from the hillary in just a moment. in the meantime, and there's sundar pichai of google. we are 32 hours away from the expiration of the uaw contract. if the big three automakers cannot reach a deal with the worker by tomorrow at 11:59 p.m. eastern time, 146,000 union members will hit the picket lines bringing production to a standstill. and speaking of cars, we've got chinese ev stocks in reverse on news that the european commission has launched an investigation into whether it should slap punitive tariffs on

china-made evs which are heavily subsidized by beijing, giving them a perceived price advantage. the e.u. says no more, the commission is looking into it at least for now. we'll wait and see if we get headlines on potential tariffs. all right, just a big day after the unveil of the new iphone 15, apple shares continue to fall, now down about 11th after the chinese government -- 1% after the chinese government said they've seen, quote, many security incidents involving iphones. now, we need to be clear, the government came out and said we don't have any china iphone ban that has been announced, we are not banning them, we are not restricting them yet. fears of restrictions have added to what is now a 6.5% loss month to date. and either way though earlier the markets were really brushing off the latest consumer inflation data that showed the largest month over month if increase in 14 months. so let's bring it to the floor show. ubs managing director, big

wealth management guy, jason katz, and circle squared alternative investments' ceo jeff sica. jason, is it apple? apple is not the biggest drag today, but apple is a main story here, not to mention the potential of cpi that really didn't come to pass to hammer the markets. >> i'm not hearing programming. liz: jason's not hearing. let me throw that to jeff sica then. jeff? >> yeah. i think, liz, as you look at the reaction to the market, the cpi was heavily anticipated, obviously. you know, especially since we saw this big increase in oil prices and gasoline prices. you know, i don't think, i don't think the market is really showing any panic necessarily. i think you're still hearing the chorus of interest rates flattening, flattening out. you're still -- you're also hearing some, that interest rates are going to go down. that might be a tall order, but

i honestly think that the markets need to start to look at, at the consumer. the consumer's extremely important. and now that you've seen this increase from july and august in oil prices, we anticipate that the consumer's going to start reducing their spending. liz: well, let me point out, yes, we have seen a huge run areup in oil prices, but oil was actually retreating today because with there was a bigger than expected build in inventories for the week. we put that aside and go back to core cpi, core inflation which excludes often volatile food and energy. up .3% month over month, up 4.3% year-over-year compared to a gain of 4.7% in july. coming down, but still well above the target, jeff. and so that makes me wonder here, tomorrow we're getting retail sales for the month of august. are you looking at, for example, the big apparel makers or perhaps the shopping, the chain store sales here? and what they look like in

deciding what to buy? >> yeah. i mean, liz, it comes down to when i look at the consumer, it comes down to wants and needs. and it also, for me, what's alarming is this credit card debt. this credit card debt is at the highest it's been in history. you're talking it's exceeding a trillion dollars. so you have people spending money, but are they spending money on what they want, or are they spending money on what they need? and where are they getting the money? are they using their credit cards? are they taking money out of savings? i still think the consumer has been annihilated by the inflation, and i don't see it getting considerably better. so even though you see these numbers that might not show dramatic increases and, as you said, liz, there's a compounding effect to take into account, you know, just because it's not what it was last month doesn't mean it's not still bad. so it is still bad. liz: can i talk about the ipo

market for a second here, jeffsome. >> sure. liz: instacart is sort of a moving target. we've just found out that bier kin stock is -- birkenstock is going to be valued -- [laughter] the shoe of preference for uc-santa cruz students, $7 billion valuation. and, of course, what is expected, what sources tell us to be a pricing tonight of arm, the chip architecture company. huge name there. we're expecting that to be priced. it's very interesting to me how the market has done. we thought, well, let's check in and see some of the ipos and how they've done this year. two momentum names, oddity and cava, are actually, if we hoe you since they went public, not a pretty picture. they were big movers, jeff, when they first came out. cava, of course, the med town january restaurant chain and oddity is the a.i.-driven makeup

company. you know, you looked at these stocks since they went public, you've got cava down 14% from its highs, and oddity is not a pretty picture either. so do you look into that? actually, jason's good. jason is good. jason, we're talking about ip oz. --, pos, about how arm could be the biggest of the year. some ipos have not done well. genelux has done brilliantly, up more than 250%. do you look at ipos when your clients call and say, liz -- jason, i want in? do you tell hem, get in, or do you say, wait, because these things have to calm down and cool down a bit? >> there's a disproportionate amount of cash on the sidelines, and the capital markets have been really funky, and we're starting to see green shoots. i'm not going to to characterize it as a insatiable demand, but for the first time in recent memory, yes, there is an

appetite. but at the right price. in this environment when there's alternatives for your money like 5.a 5% treasuries, that ip o better be priced to perfection. liz: well, i had heard silicon valley smart people, no names, but had said, oh, oddity is huge. it is the smartest -- it may are well be. but as a purchase of a stock, jason? so when you spin it forward to something like arm which is expected to be a pretty big blue whale here for this year, will it be a jenelux which has performed so well, or do you wait? how long? what sign do you hook for before you say to your clients, okay, you can get in here? >> i don't think there's any need at the open to buy any of these ipos in this environment. i think you give it a few days to see the books settle and how markets trade especially post the hot hotterer cpi number, angst heading into the fed if meeting. i think you have ample time for

the game to come to you especially when it comes to the issue market. liz: jeff see ca, we're talking about the opportunities in this market. still very high i'll valuation tech stocks that are two rich right now. what looks good to you in. >> >> i mean, liz, it's been a challenge. i have to be honest with you, like jason was talking about the ipo market, the ipo market used to thrill me. now what i'm trying to buy, i'm looking at -- i especially like these reits that are selling, real estate investment trusts, that are selling at a discount. a lot of these reits are selling, companies like avalon, they're selling at a valuations that are less than what the total aggregate value is of the real estate within it. i would not touch -- i own a lot of the technology to stocks. i'm holding on to them. but most of them like apple, i think, are priced to perfection. i wouldn't be chasing them at these levels. liz: okay. all right. >> so i'm being very selective. liz: and, jason, what are you

recommending real quick? >> i'm looking at laggards like energy up only 4%. energy is one of the reasons why inflation's elevated, so why not take advantage of that? i think 80 is, you know, the new 60 when it comes to oil. you have opec production cuts, you have a group trading at a 40% discount to the s&p sporting high dividend yields and all these major integrated companies are announcing buybacks. so i think there's ample opportunity in the energy space right here, right now. ♪ right here, right now. a little jesus jones action. that's his song. great to see you. jason, jeff, thank you very much. guys, we've got to get to the tech titanses taking over capitol hill. now in, i don't know, the fifth hour of a private, bipartisan meeting of senators working to map out rules of the road for artificial if intelligence. everyone from bill gates to tesla ceo elon musk in attendance. musk frenemy mark zuckerberg of meta also there, although

organizers were smart enough to separate the two in the room. zuck placed with attorney maya wiley while musk, the tesla ceo, was seated next to palantir's alex karp. palantir's big data the model driven in great part by a.i. what, if anything, will come out of the meeting aimed at creating guardrails for a.i. known just as much for deep fakings as it is for game-changing technology? to hillary vaughn on capitol hill. hillary, what can you tell us? >> reporter: liz, today's forum from a senator himself who told me rah really about listening, not so much about laws. but they did get a lot of face time with these major tech ceos at this forum that's still ongoing right now. they're e getting a chance to try to guide future regulation in a way that would not hurt their bottom line because the people in this room already worth billions stand to make billions more from artificial intelligence. elon musk saying the industry needs a referee to make sure companies are making decisions

that are safe and in the best interest of the public and that pretty much every other ceo in the room is in favor of regulations. but the dark cloud over all this is how much of a threat a.i. is to the human race. so i asked elon musk how worried should we be? a.i. going do kill us all, mr. musk? >> i hope not. i think, i think -- >> make them protect us from artificial intelligence. >> think of the future as a series of probabilities as opposed to certainties. there is some chance that a. i. will kill us all. i think it's low, but this is some chance. >> reporter: the other concern, other than the extinction of the human race, is in the short term putting people out of work. i asked sam altman of openai if that should be a concern. what about putting a lot of people out of work? >> there will be, there always is changes in the labor market with technological revolutions, but i firmly believe there'll be

far more great new jobs than before. i mean, all jobs are at stake in some especially sense, right -- in some sense, right? >> reporter: some is lawmakers had a problem that this forum was not open to the public or press. senator josh hawley called it a cocktail party for rich people. senator elizabeth warren also a not um pressed with what she heard -- impressed. >> they're sitting at a big, round table all by themselves. all of the senators sit there and ask no questions. that's the setup. it's the giant tech companies. they're the only ones in america who get the special deal, and that is because of section 230. >> reporter: so really, liz, this invigorateed a lot of critics of big tech to pursue regulations against these companies that they have tried to pursue for so long. so there is a big sense on the hill to try to get something through congress that would actually reform section 230.

but among other things, crack down on big tech overall. liz? liz: hillary, thank you very much. you know -- [laughter] liz warren is not entirely wrong. you wonder, they're all behind closed doors, a little lobbying going on in who knows. but we're watching it. and, by the way, we're not done with a.i. because it has been the fuel behind the nasdaq's 32% gain this year and the 35% gain year to date in vmware stock. vmware ceo is here next as his company extends its a.i. partnership with chip giant nvidia. while we're at it, let's check the stocks of those tech titans talking a.i. on capitol hill. tesla up 1%, meta up by three-quarters of a percent, microsoft if up just under 1%. alpa that bet google up half a percent. stay tuned. big tech and growth stocks have been driving most of the gains today, but now we've got the s&p down 5 points, joining the dow in the red. nasdaq holding on to just 4

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liz: as we've been telling you, big tech executives, there's the door, live picture here, still in hour five and a half meeting with senators on capitol hill. live look at the kennedy caucus room. behind those doors they're hashing out the future of 56789i. and the regulation of it. the meeting is expected to end later this evening, but it comes right at the time that, can i say thousands? hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of companies are piling into the a.i. craze. vmware was ahead of it. the cloud software company had already teamedded up ten years ago with a.i. semiconductor leader nvidia, but today it's extending that partnership to

create a swiss of -- suite of products focused on generative a.i. training and security of it using data store thed in vmware's cloud infrastructure. stock up right now three-quarters of a percent to $165 and change. joining us now in a fox business exclusive, the ceo. rago, please explain to us in the simpler of terms what the software stack you've created with invidia, what you're creating with that company, will do. >> absolutely. happy to be on with you. so what by announced with nvidia is a giant solution. it is targeted businesses, and what it enables businesses to do is solve their number one concern with using generative a. a i. which is how do i use all of this great technology and the potential it has while securing my day and being compliant and, of course, doing it in a cost effective manner.

so that is really the problem we were trying to solve with nvidia, and we are thrilled with the result. and that is the product that we vanned. liz: does it do deep learning in can it scale up workload? things like that? >> yes, it absolutely can do deep learning. the way it works is it takes a standard large language model and then helps companies tailor it to their data and build applications on using that language model and the tailored data that they've got and build these new, exciting applications that every enterprise ceo is -- liz: when you talk about privacy especially as it e pertains to a.i., is that keeping private the proprietary molds of a.i. that your clients are coming up with? are it keeping proprietary the searches your clients do? ill hajj that if -- i would imagine that that if you've got one see wrote searching for certain answers for apt i., if that were to get out public, that would not be a good request

thing if perhaps they're thinking about -- i'm just throwing this out -- an acquisition of some sort. >> yeah, yeah, exactly. it's all of the above. but to take the question in order, so let's say you are like vmware, and you want to use your vmware proif -- proprietary data the, you don't want vmware proprietary data to be widely available for competitors to use it. so we, in fact, the way we got into in this journey is we decided to build a solution internally within vmware that would protect vmware's data and, like you just pointed out, protect the searches that people are doing using v america ware. and -- vmware. and also ifer using a model, we don't want to be sue by9 another company. so -- sued by another company. so so that is the problem we are tackling with the solution and, like i said, we are excite to be

working with nvidia on this. liz: well, it is no big surprise and no shock that nvidia's ceo is in that room in the senate building right now behind closed doors with dozens of other ceos or who are very much involved in a.i. speaking with senators, a bipartisan group of senators, about future regulation. what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be done guardrailed or helmed in that a.i. has the power to explode out into the world that we really need to watch out for? >> yeah. i think, in my opinion, the number one thing here is not moving too fast. the state of art of this technology is advancing so rapidly, right? and understanding what is possible and what is not possible is also changeing so raply. rapidly. it would be a mistake to the hastily run into regulation right now.

i think what is happening in that senate building that you just talked about is good in the sense that it's a public-private dialogue that's happening and that's needed so that everybody has a deeper understanding -- liz: can i just, i just need to -- >> what is possible and what is probable. sorry. liz: you say it's the important not to move too quickly. we don't want to make mistakes on regulation. but, again, if you wait too long, it's very hard to unscramble that egg. everything is out there. and it's hard to then kind of ring-fence it once again, don't you think? and even elon musk was out there saying it's got to the happen. sam altman is saying we need to do it. >> yeah, absolutely. smart people are all looking at the range of probabilities over what could happen, for sure, right? however, if you go back to last thanksgiving, nobody was talking about chatgpt, right? liz: right. >> so, obviously, a lot of development in openark i and companies -- openai and

companies similar to that. but for the broad public and for the broad economy at large, the consequences where ill-understood. so that is why i'm saying between last thanksgiving and now the advances in technology have been so accelerated that it's hard even for people in the industry to sit here and say what is it going to be by next thanksgiving. liz: all right9. >> so i would say we've got to move cautiously here and pay attention to what's possible and not possible and make sure regulation does not get in the way of innovation. liz: okay. >> we are competing in a global economy as well, so we've got to be cognizant of all these factors. raghu, thank you so much. dow down 106, we're coming right back. mucking

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liz: fox business alert, all right, so the s&p is doing one of these toggle switching back and forth in the green and the red. at the moment it is the up just 2 points. dow is down 100 so can't help you there, but the nasdaq, bulls are pretty happy, it's at least the up 37 points. we need to look at the airline sector to have. just about everybody's in the red. two more of hem cutting third quarter outlooks. spirit and american have lored their profit forecasts for the quarter e american citing increased labor costs while spirit attributes it to steep discounting. both also blaming higher fuel costs. spirit's down nearly 6%. american down 5.7%. well, it's worse than spirit. if rivals significant1 and

united, they are also in the red facing turbulence after a federal judge ordered them to face an antitrust suit that accuses the airlines of conspiring to drive up prices by reducing the number of available seats. american and southwest have already settle their suits. neither, though, admitted any wrongdoing. tell that down 2.5% -- delta down 2.5%, united down 3.7%. citigroup ceo jane phraser announcing a corporate re-org that will shed a bunch of management layers. citi has not revealed numbers on job cuts. the investment bank will be divided into five main business lines that report directly to fraser. citigroup is the third largest bank by assets but has a mauler domestic retail banking presence than its if competitors, shares up 1.7%. investors pulling their chips off mgm's table as the mayhem caused be by a hack of some of the casino if's critical systems has stretched to a third day.

mgm down 1.5%. the hacker gang known as black cat forced the shuttering of company e-mail and booking platformses, but the entertainment conglomerate has been able to bring its casino floors back online at this hour. credit agency moody's warned the cyber incident high highlights a key risk within mgm and could negatively impact the company's credit rating. haines celestial announcing its haines reimagined strategy. the plan is aimed at prioritizing growth across five core geographies of the u.s., canada, the u.k., ireland and europe. shares of the health food conglomerate that has fallen 40% year-over-year but gaining right now at least 7%. stubborn inflation still one of the biggest challenges facing american small businesses. baked by melissa founder and ceo melissa is here to tell us how

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for a more confident financial future. hey, a tandem bicycle. you can't do that by yourself. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. liz: we are just getting this breaking news, she -- she land disnorth america has made a third offer at this hour to the united autoworkers union to reach a new labor deal. they did not provide details of the offer. of course we know the uaw wants 40% pay raises ask and a 32-hour workweek. stellantis shares had been in the green earlier, they dipped into the red, they appear to be coming up off the floor here, now down just 9 cents. gm is up a third of a percent if or 11 pennies, and ford is up 25 cents. this comes just a day, just over a day before the contract deadline. as you know, that deadline hits

tomorrow night at midnight, so 11:59 p.m. eastern if there is not a deal, they will hit the picket lines and strike. let's turn to august inflation. so so we got the cpi, consumer price index, number up, still heating up the kitchen. this is the probable as the cost of ingredients remains elevated year e over year across the pantry, sugar prices have spiked 8% year-over-year. flour up 5.6%. fat and oils up 4.7%. dairy products up three-tenths of a percent. the only thing that's come down, eggs. the only thing that's cracked on price, dropping 18.2% year-over-year. but altogether, these are the key ingredients that most baked goods have to have. so how is a widely-followed cupcake maul biz, baked my melissa, handling the rising cost? the brand has sold nearly 300 million of these delicious mini

cupcakes since 2008. the dessert company has grown to 14 retail locations across new york city, boston. also it ships nationwide with. they're also in jersey too. the brains behind the operation, the cofounder and ceo, mel -- melissa, is joining me now in a fox business excruise i have. this can't be a surprise, that the cost of ingredients continues to spike. what do you think is really driving it? >> no surprise at all. i mean, everything is more expensive than it was last ooh year. i can't think of anything that i buy today that wases the same is price two years ago. and at baked by melissa, we make everything entirely by hand with the most delicious ingredients. there's a living and breathing melissa maas mascot who is in the bakery and making sure we have the high quality products all the time, and that is our top priority. liz: so how do you wrap your arms around these prices without raising your prices in. >> we really have our finger on the pulse. we're looking at our data that every single day. we're having real informative

conversations with the team. we're being streaming thetic with our merchandising on our site. for the if first 10 years we were in business, we did not change our pricing once. we have changed prices in the past few year cans, but a very small amount to maintain a healthy margin so we can continue to do what we do best, and that's make people happy with the most delicious ingredients and, obviously, product. liz: yeah, of course. red balloon has done this survey of small businesses, and you would absolutely count as a small business. they found that9 -- 92% of those who mention, who weighed many on this are continuing to struggle with inflation's ongoing impact and that the government figures do not accurately reflect it. you know, when you rook at this pressure -- look at this pressure, you then turned and you've try to figure out other ways. you have an absolutely wildly viral tiktok channel that you've been posting every single a day for the past is it 840 days, counting? >> yeah, i'm tired.

[laughter] liz: but you do recipes. you have millions of followers. can you quantify how your followers somehow translate to baked by melissa sales to maybe, you know, offset some of the costs that you see from the ingredient side? >> well, my food philosophy is that if you get your fulfillment and nourishment from meal time, you can absolutely indulge in dessert. during can covid i started sharing real meals i was making and i continue to make today for my family. and i kind of by accident created this really engaged community of people who really enjoy the content. we hear from people every single day that change the way they eat. and i speak to the products the same way i speak to these recipes that i'm making and baking every day on tiktok and instagram, and i think that's what we call the top of the funnel. it's just brand awareness, and i'm creating a real genuine, and authentic relationship with all these people.

they understand who i am a, what i stand for and what i do, and i think it's the relationship that translates to our growing business during times that are challengeing. liz: the the most amazing one, in my p was when you made the earth day cake, the green and blue -- i don't even -- okay, i'm the worst in the kitchen, melissa, i think we talked about that before. let's talk about the social media impact. if, you know, tiktok is obviously under fire, if it were to go away, you're still on instagram and some others, right? how important has social media really become as a tool for small businesses trying to get the word out? >> i think for every business social media is different, but for anyone who really spends their time like i do utilizing social media for their brand and business, they can tell you that the things that social media tends to do and change is completely out of our control. and so i'm focused on the community that i've had the privilege to build on tiktok and instagram over the past 15

years. that's my main focus, how can i continue to deliver them high quality, consistent content that continues to build on our relationship. whatever else happens tomorrow, i have no control over, so i'm just making hay in the sunshine because -- [laughter] i mean, it's busy, you know? liz: no, no, ooh i'm watching you. you're with all dipping your finger in and liking it. you're like an a absolute real cook. so i'm thrill, a real baker. thank you very much for coming on. we love to talk to small business owners because they are the backbone of hiring in this country, so thank you, melissa. >> thank you so much for having me. liz: the sec suing the broker-dealer that handles 25% of all market orders placed by retail investors in the united states. what is behind this suit against virtu financial? look at the stock, it is tanking # 8.25. charlie gasparino's about to break that the next. closing bell, 14 minutes away. yeah, we've got red on the screen here, but the s&p is

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♪. liz: take a look at shares of virtue financial. we showed you in the break going

in and they still look pretty bad down 8% at this hour as the market-maker has become the latest target of sec chair gary gensler. virtue says they plan to fight the agency all the way own what they feel is an unfair attack. what is, what is at issue here, charles? >> they got sued yesterday by the sec for failing to essentially have proper safeguards on their data that one side of the firm, the proprietary trading site could theoretically take from the market making side, okay. so that is customer data and engage in insider trading for about, i want to say about 18 months this occurred between 2018 and 2019. not a new thing. liz: right. >> now that's is what the charges said. here is what virtue is saying, we have exclusive details which is pretty interesting. they plan on fighting this. they think it is unfair. liz: okay. >> what they're saying there is no victims.

no one traded off the stuff. liz: right. >> it was a glitch in the system back then that they brought to the attention of the sec and here's the weird thing and they told me this and i did run this by some securities lawyers i know that are on the defense side, i said when was last time you saw something like this, books and records violation or potential problem with safekeeping books and records where the sec brought the litigation and chose to fight it because there was no settlement here where there is no victim? nothing, they're not alleging any wrongdoing with the information. the wrongdoing is, hey, you had this hole in your system, alleged hole, they say there were other safeguards be that as it may you have this hole and you didn't really disclose it right, didn't tell people about it but i said there was no victims. if you read the comment there are no victims. i asked some security lawyers do they bring cases like this where, you improperly using your cell phone for something that

that is is immaterial. no one can think after case. now that i said that, if you find a case tell me, i just want to know. i want to write about it. this is extremely rare thing. so why did they bring the case? the sec said you have to have proper record retention policies. you have to disclose it in a very, very up front way. virtue is saying you're doing this because of politics. doug, ceo of virtue has been a big critic of a lot of gary gensler's policies, particularly on market making on the stuff that he does, on market struck -- structure. gary gensler wants to change the entire market structure. he has been attacking him, and he thinks there is payback because i hate to say there is no crime here. liz: let's circle back here. you're saying it is politics.

>> he is saying it is politics. liz: we know gensler has gone after obviously the coinbases of the world and also some other market makers. >> right. liz: when it came to everything that was going on robinhood, et cetera. is this all part of it, that i believes is tingeing the picture? >> i don't know. the sec always wants to show it put people on guard, make sure your records -- liz: but it was a glitch and they fixed it. >> that is the problem with this case. i'm trying not to be political here myself because i know both sides obviously. liz: sure. >> there is no victim here. like it basically said the case, if your traders wanted to on the proprietary side they could havep at thatted in whatever code they have, they all have the same code and got in on the market making side and front run on that side but they didn't do it. liz: a disaster or miss is --

>> it didn't happen because they weren't doing anything illegal. that is the problem the sec has. that is why they're going to fight it. i think you will probably see this in congress. republicans in congress will going to ask him about this. this will be a fairly controversial case, one of the more controversial ones going forward i think. anyway, i'm back after, you know i had covid last week. liz: yes i did. thank you for -- >> can i say one thing? they gave me the covid! i beat the covid! liz: thanks, charlie. >> you know who said that? certain presidential candidate with red hair, orange hair. liz: all right, thank you very much, charlie. closing bell, they are four minutes away. netflix shares are sinking by five 1/3%, pretty much at the lows of the session right now after the company's cfo spencer newman said it is hard to see a return on billions of dollars of

investment in live sports. he was speaking at a con fence and he also said it is not easy to build an ad business from scratch but i don't quite understand that because they have actually had some real success in adoption of their ad tier but let's also show you moderna. moderna getting quite a shot in the arm today. the company announced its new flu vaccine was more successful than previous flu shots. it may be difficult to predict the next big medical break-through at all, moderna off the highs of the session. do's "countdown closer" says there is a way to play this. he has one medical technology stork he says could benefit regardless which drugs become popular or get approved. joining us managing director, senior portfolio manager, nnfj, burns mckinney, managing 6.6 billion. you like the company that services all these pharmas, right? >> that's right. i think one way investors can go

about it, buy moderna or one of the drug companies, going to the casino, putting money on red or black and figure out whether they will win or lose developing these drugs. names like ad due lent, they have diagnostic consumables for the biotechs and drug companies this is really a pick and shovel play. you don't necessarily have to pick winners and losers. you might pay 35 times earnings for moderna. adulent 22 times. it is a way to play offense and defense. they're expected to grow earnings by about 16% per year over next five years. you have that nice juice there. because they make consumables that allows investors to play defense if you have some sort of a downturn. liz: it fixes instruments pharma companies have to use. you don't have to sit around i think novo-nordisk will get approval for ozempic, that was a

huge move for that company and those are few an far between and go with agilent. jefferies says 5% decrease in china sales growth could affect the medical tools industry. are you worried about that? they're going through a tough economic time. >> that is something to factor in. probably one reason why a name like agilent, historically averaged 27 times earnings. now you get it trades in line with the market despite the fact you have double the growth. investors are really being compensated for that. and that is really largely factored into the stock price today. liz: we had jeff sica and jason katz they both like energy depending on the time. so do you but you prefer to play it with one particular name. what is it? >> pioneer resources is an interesting one today. it is exploration and production company. right now you get it for about 11 times earnings, six times

ebidta. what we like about it they have a 3% dividend yield but they have been buying back a ton of shares. last year their total shareholder yield, dividend yield plus the amountth repurchasing was 20% of their market cap. so they have been very investor friendly. they have one of the dominant positions in the permian basin, one of the best maces in the united states. because of that they drilleds almost as many wells as anyone. that gives them a lower cost of production which makes it a little more defensive. [closing bell rings] likewise they get nor efficient. liz: we have to run. burns mckinney, thank you so much. markets mixed after a choppy day of trade. nasdaq ekes out a gain. we'll see you tomorrow. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. we have tonight more news on the house impeachment inquiry and we've got breaking news on mitt romney's retirement