worried about china. that is 20% of their business. i'm worried about a 29 multiple when traditionally traded in the mid-teens. i think the new iphone 15 will be a winner. initial reports are pretty solid but i don't see our channel checks people immediately tossing in the 13 to get the 15. liz: this constant upgrade something driving me crazy here. we have stacks of old phones. great to see you, thank you very much. david dietze picking meta and disney. here we go. we'll call this too close to call right now. if the dow holds on to 11 points of gains we're seeing at the moment it will have the second positive day in the last three trading sessions. but it is hard to tell. [closing bell rings] nasdaq too close, two points, s&p up three points. we'll see you tomorrow. larry: hello folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow? just a few minutes we'll going

to review former president donald trump's recent nbc interview when he had a chance, when he was able to break through the noise, mr. trump was able to outline future agenda, much of it on the economy. he talked about getting inflation and interest rates down he specially by reopening the spigots for liquid gold, aka, oil and gas, aka fossil fuels and one of his key points that gets overlooked is selling liquified natural gas, lng, to europe and asia, even at lower prices would increase production there would be a revenue wind fall for the u.s. and that windfall could lead to reducing the federal debt burden and perhaps also the federal tax burden. now mr. trump also thrashed joe biden's policies on electric vehicles including electric trucks and he emphasized his economic successes both pre-pandemic and post-pandemic and frankly the public agrees with him.

joe biden's economic approval hovering around 35%. donald trump's economic approval around 60%. the subject of "bidenomics" wasn't specifically raised in the nbc interview but let me fill in some blanks especially with recent articles by former cea chairs kevin hassett and tyler goodspeed and e.j. antoni from the heritage foundation all make important points about the absolute failure and the untruths regarding "bidenomics." president joe biden brags about manufacturing. actual production year own year basis has dropped five consecutive months. plus the ism manufacturing survey has been under 50 for 10 straight months. that's a clear future recession signal. meanwhile workers real wages have declined nearly 3% during the biden presidency. they rose by 7% under president trump.

with the latest cpi report the level of inflation has gone up nearly 17%. groceries 20%, energy 38%, gasoline 52%, all during the biden years. president biden keeps bragging that he is cutting the budget deficit by $1.7 trillion which is his infamous bottomless pinocchio. in this fiscal year alone, fiscal 23 which ends this month, the deficit is expected to exceed $2 trillion. so go figure. biden keeps blaming trump's tax cuts for higher deficits and debts but here in the nbc interview the former president does set the record straight by pointing out that tax revenues went up even as tax rates went down during his administration. did anyone ever say laffer curve? meanwhile federal spending under joe biden hovering 25% of gdp

compared to less than 21% pre-pandemic under mr. trump and in fact the cbo spending estimates are running roughly one trillion dollars above pre-biden estimates. finally, real median household incomes increased under trump pre-pandemic by over $5000 per family. while they have fallen four thousand dollars under mr. biden. poverty data, that has ratcheted up sharply from 7.8% under mr. trump to 12.4% under president biden. for black americans poverty has gone from 11.3 to over 1%. for native americans from 12.4 to 23.2%. and for female head of households, from 11.7% under mr. trump, pre-pandemic, to

22.6% recently under mr. biden. no matter how much president joe biden denies these factoids the public knows better. so, save america, mr. biden, please retire. now's the time. and that's my riff. all right. now let's turn tote donald trump's masterful interview, all right? we welcome john carney, "breitbart economics and finance" editor and coauthor of the "breitbart business digest," and, the great mark simone, wor radio show host. all right, gentlemen, take a lissen to what the president said about retribution and fairness. >> when you launched your campaign in march, you told the crowd, quote, i am your retribution. what does that mean? what does that look like? >> retribution i'm talking to terms i have to protect to people. what they're doing to people so

horrible. they're putting people in jail for long periods of time, firemen, policemen, accountants, even lawyers. >> when you talk about retribution are you talking about directing your attorney general to try to go after your political enemies? >> when i talk about retribution i'm talking about fairness. we have to treat people fairly. larry: all right. you heard him, we have to treat people fairly. mark simone, i will start with you because the dual standard of justice under the bidens has come through. i don't think trump is saying he is going after them. i think he's saying it is time we had a neutral system of justice, a fair system, correct me if i'm wrong? i don't know, kristen welker who usually is a good reporter, i'm not sure she picked up on that but is that what trump is saying? >> absolutely. you can see "meet the press."

nice gentle questions, pound. "meet the press" every week of the year talks about how disgusting donald trump, when they get get a new host, plead h him to come on the show and he is nice to do it. between this and megyn kelly, and. larry: cnn. >> these are much tougher debates. larry: she is pretty good reporter. she covered me while i was at the white house. she is a pretty fair reporter. there are some unbalanced things that will happen later on we'll show them in some of these sound bites but the point i think is key is, trump is sticking to his guns in a relatively calm and moderate way. that's the point i think sticks out like a sore thumb. >> his guns are absolutely correct. he should stick to them. nobody kang figure out what the

97 charges. we don't know what he did wrong. john gotti didn't have 97 charges. larry: john carney you want to make a point? i was going to spare you. which were going to get to the uaw. you and i only understand the meaning of uaw strike. >> it was amazing donald trump was running for president, had crowds lock her up, people were mad, he is politicizing justice. he gets into office, he does the magnanimous thing. i'm not going to pursue here. i will not go after hillary clinton. democrats do exactly the opposite. larry: that is great point. that is often overlooked. he would let the whole thing going. >> look the country has been through enough. we had an election. let's move on. the democrats are not willing to move on. they won the election yet they are coming after trump day in, day out. anywhere they can get an indictment they're going for it. larry: i think that is what he

was saying. >> yes. larry: he was asked are you going to appoint a attorney general that will go after. he said no, i women appoint a facial-mindedder attorney general. that was a key moment in the interview. we have more now. i think we have the uaw sound right? let's listen to mr. trump on the uaw. we have the great john carney to talk about it. >> i don't know the gentleman but i know his name very well and i think he's not doing a good job in representing his union because he is not going to have a union in three years from now. those jobs will all be gone because all the electric cars will be made in china. what they're doing with our trucking industry is disaster because they want all electric trucks. a truck own a large, with a large tank, large gasoline or diesel capacity can to up to 2,000 miles. an electric truck goes 300 miles. so what are these pies going to

do? larry: that is very interesting. he had those numbers at his fingerprints. john carney at another point over the weekend mr. trump said he was thinking about marching with some of the uaw picketers. >> right. larry: talk to me about the uaw strike right now? >> sure. donald trump is absolutely correct when he says there is an existential threat to american auto making and this is what the uaw does see. they're just not, they're too wedded to the democrats. so they know that this premature push for the electrification of not just u.s. trucks but all cars is going to wipe out jobs. there is far fewer jobs required to make an electric car to begin with. even if we were going to make them here that would be a big problem. the problem is we're not really going to make them here unless we ramp up tariffs much higher than we did than when trump was

president. china will make them cheaply. they will make them dangerously. they will ship them over here. this is big realization in europe. they realize they will have their entire auto industry wiped out. it will come here, unless they do something about it. that is the number one issue they see coming. number two, they had all the agreements bargained in the last negotiation completely wiped out by inflation. they have lost money. their cost of living has gone up much faster than their pay. when they say we need a 35% pay increase, what they say we need 5% a year going forward but we need to make up for the 20% inflation we just experienced and until, so it is not unreasonable, a lot of people look at this, those guys asked for 40%, 30%, that's too much? it is not if you look how their cost of living has been wiped out over the years. larry: this is in effect a strike against inflation. that is biden-flation.

and secondly a strike against biden's climate policy and mandate for electric vehicles. no gas-powered cars. mark simone, no gas-powered cars in 10 years. what is that going to do? here is a thought. not only the uaw will get wiped out but, but, the big three carmakers will not do well for example. ford, for example, lost four 1/2 billion dollars last year making these evs that most people don't even want. so this is like bad for everybody. >> yeah. it is not going to work. our electric grid can't handle what we have now. often summer in the cities tell you to turn their air-conditioning down. imagine putting million electric cars. this will be a supply chain crisis in detroit t will long up production. everything will collapse in a few years trying to go electric. larry: john, you pointed out, we were talking on the radio, you pointed out the biggest cost of living hikes came in the northern states, michigan,

wisconsin, manufacturing states. >> they suffered much worse inflation than the countries as a wheel and inflation is running much higher. right now we're down to 3.7 i think in the last cpi number. they're still up above five. their inflation is much worse. their cost of living is way up and frankly i think all they're asking for a fair deal. they're not fighting against the market. they're not fighting against free market forces at all. they're fighting against the biden administration policies that wiped them out and threatened to even make it worse in the future. larry: what's new? what is the latest? front page of "the wall street journal" was praising their tactics. they went after specific factories for all three carmakers which is unusual. >> that's right. larry: are there any new reports out today? >> so the most interesting thing they're doing, this is related to what mark was saying, is they're going after the profitable gas engine factories. they're not going after the electric factories. if they did that the car companies would say oh good, we don't have to make those for a

while. they're all sitting on lots. nobody wants them. they go after things there is real market demand for. those are the most profitable plants each of these car companies have. so they're very smart about this. they can expand it. they haven't yet. they have expanded it a little bit. they can expand it if they need to. if the negotiations are going well they can bring it down. normally they have only six weeks to strike. that is when the strike fund runs out, people have to feed their families, when people have to go back to work. striking certain plants, that extends the strike for as long as they want. larry: mark simone, i know you had a lot of experience as a long haul truck driver, trump's point think need to go 2000 miles. electric powered trucks, 300 miles. nobody ever talks about that. that is a factoid i never heard before. >> i don't want to spend 45 minutes to an hour at a gas

station every time i have to charge up. there is all kinds of problems. the batteries are about $18,000. you have to strip mine half the earth to get minerals for batteries. larry: which releasing carbon and every other darn thing. >> if there is fire, there is nothing that can burn it out. they have to let it burn three, four, five days. people are killed by the battery fires. larry: when you drive up from your weekend chateau in connecticut are you willing to wait couple hours to recharge your battery? >> i don't like to spend couple hours in a me bill station. larry: that is common sense point of view. >> if you think about what just happened with all the supply chain problems with the port of lows loss being jammed up, that will be nothing compared to move to all electric trucks will be. they will drive 200 miles, stop for an hour. takes a week to get across america. larry: unbelievable. he doesn't want to wait a week.

jaunt carney, mark simone, thank you very much, gentlemen. folks coming up we'll talk more about this nbc interview with mr. trump. next up is how president trump plans to reverse some of the damage of "bidenomics." here's little hint drill, baby, drill, lick question gold. we'll talk about it with art laffer returns on coyed low. fox business hosting the second republican primary presidential debate in the ronald reagan library in simi valley, california on september 27th at 9:00 p.m. the "kudlow" team will broadcast our regular show from out there. we'll do the predebate show. it will be totally cool. you won't want to miss a single thing. i'm kudlow. we'll be right back. ♪.

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larry: more on this nbc interview. in this segment mr. trump tells us how he will reverse biden-flation and just about everything else. let's bring in our ace commentator, art laffer, former reagan economist, presidential medal of freedom recipient and author of "taxes have consequences." he didn't mention the laffer

curve, but somewhere's in here i don't know if it is in this clip or not, he says tax cuts, tax rates went down, tax revenues went up. zoo you can call that a pyric victory. so here is one of the sounds from the interview. we'll get you to listen to comment on it. here it comes. >> he wants to raise corporate tax rates to 28%. it is reported you want to lower them to 15% is that true? >> i would like to lower them a little bit if we could. but we have to get income coming in. when i lowered taxes we took in more revenue. >> 15% mr. president? >> depends. depends where we are. a lot happens in a year. when i lowered taxes i cut taxes tremendously created tremendous jobs, more importantly we had more revenue with lower taxes than we did with higher taxes. larry: arthur, did you call him just before the interview and tell him to say that? come on. you can, you can fess up. >> he wrote, he wrote the

introduction to the book there. it was just lovely what he did. it is very true by the way, revenues went way up after trump's tax cuts, yours and trump's tax cuts. it went way up. the economy did better t was all true. trump was well aware of that back then. i mean i love the way he said it, don't you. it is great, just great. larry: i want to find, i'm sure there is a back channel story from someplace. that was totally scripted. do you think he should go to 15% on the corporate rate? how important is that? >> that would be very nice to go there. i think there should be a total reform of corporate taxes. we should never tax profits, larry. tax value added or net sales whatever it is. why tax companies preserve our natural resources makes wonderful products everyone wants and eschew lawyers and accountants the bee jeepers out of them. we tax companieses that are losers, makes lousy products and

get subsidies from government, why should they get away with it. no reason to distribute them amongst corporations. low rate, broad-based, corporate tax, would be a net sales tax rather than a profits tax is the best way to go but in lieu of that i would love to see it lowered to 15% but there is no reason why we should discriminate against profitable companies by taxing them more. tax the unprofitable ones. larry: i think a bigger assignment is to reduce the personal income tax rate. all that expires, the corporate rate, by the way, does not expire at the end of 2025. >> that's right. larry: the individual stuff does expire. you're still left with a top rate of 37% and then the number of other four or five brackets each come down about 3 percentage point. you know, arthur, ronald reagan left the top rate at 28. it was 2and 15. as you know, small businesses pay the personal income tax rate. so you would give a boost to

small business by lowering the personal rate and give a boost to hard-working folks? >> yeah. it is totally right. and what we should do larry is have a flat tax across the board. we can make it really low in the range of 13% across the board with no deductions no exemptions, no exclusions, no admissions, no credits, do all of that and we collect tons and tons of money to run the government. would be more efficient to raising revenues. it would be neutral to the economy instead of always being against people who work, people who do well, people who invest well. discrimination against success would be eliminated with a flat tax. that is where we should go. what you and trump did, was just great, larry, but we can go a lot further. larry: it was always his policies. we worked on it. secondly, here is mr. trump on inflation and jay powell and interest rates. please take a listen. >> would you direct your fed chair to lower interest rates.

>> depends. depends. >> you might. >> where inflation is. i would get inflation down drill we must. we will be drilling for oil. right now interest rates are very high, they're too high. people can't buy homes, they can't do anything. they can't borrow money. the banks don't have money. the banks are not lending money. >> mr. president, would you appoint a new fed chair if elected? >> i think he has two years left so we'll see. larry: drill we must. that is really, as he sees the world, i think there is a lot to this, art, high oil prices, high energy prices and so forth have a gigantic impact on inflation and as you know, refined petroleum products permeate every nook and cranny of the economy. that is how he sees inflation. of course his policies would be to reopen the spigots for fossil fuel. anyway, what did you make of what you heard from him on that subject? >> i loved everything i heard.

in fact i really loved his discretion, with respect we'll wait to see what the conditions are then. that is a very serious, mature politician and governance person saying that. when he says we can get rid of all the discrimination against oil production, he is completely right. producing oil in america is not polluting the environment. it's not. it is just replacing u.s. production for very inefficient dirty production abroad. that is all it is. if you want to get clean air, that may be a different thing. that may require a carbon tax but producing oil in america is not bad. it's wonderful. it is the bagwadi theorems directly. never, ever use production solution for a consumption problem. i thought he said that all really well, larry. i thought he addressed inflation very well and i thought his response to powell that i'm going to have to wait because powell has two more years once i'm elected which is the correct answer. he has plenty of time to choose a good fed, what the

circumstances are. i was impressed with that interview in the clips you poised, showed. larry: all is food in the world that's all. all is good. >> all is good in the world, larry. what you mean i'm an ace reporter? come on, ace reporter? larry: ace reporter, someone said that could have been me. >> what you said when you brought me on, ace reporter. i'm bumping the ace reporter. larry: ace reporter coming up. coming up next on "kudlow," house republicans may have a deal to avoid a shutdown and the deal has strange bedfellows. we'll talk to the chairman of the house freedom caucus scott perry next up. plus former president trump lays out the biden impeachment evidence. so maybe even the mainstream media can't ignore it. we'll talk about all of that with gregg jarrett and mollie hemingway all when "kudlow" returns. ♪.

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breaking news. house republicans may have a deal that will avoid a government shutdown. joining us now to talk about it, pennsylvania congressman scott perry who is chair of the house freedom caucus. mr. scott perry, so as i understand it the main street, whatever partnership, and the freedom caucus, you are, your freedom caucus have banded together and have an interesting deal would what, put a continuing resolution for another month or so before we get to the rest of the appropriation bills but you tell me, no shutdown, no shutdown? >> well, yeah i will tell you we're not really interested in a shutdown but unfortunately the folks running this mace have squandered most of the summer and in frustration why don't we just figure this out ourselves as members. so we got together with some of these folks, can we do 30 days, cut the government 8% during those 30 days and force a border

policy, get the border policy for 30 days of cut funding, permanently, get that permanently, allow us to finish these appropriation bills we haven't finished all summer, get on with getting the policy right and the spending right. the reason we haven't finished those bills, larry, you understand washington, there are print of people here wanting to spend more and more money. there are folks like me who won't vote to spend more and more money. that is the wrong things. that is the impasse. we have to get through that impasse this 30 days of cutting spending at 8%, securing the border gives us time to do that we think that is a pretty reasonable proposal. larry: i would tend to agree with you. i'm not in this game but the fact -- you know i think, it is in the weeds and it's boring but in you can buy time to go through what is it, 12 appropriation bills, if i get that right. that's called regular order. >> right correct.

larry: that is how budgeting should be done. each one has its own categories instead of lumping them into another omnibus bill that has ukraine spending, maui spending and lord knows what else spending. so that's one of the reasons. >> right. larry: i don't know all the details here but what you're saying, what i read over the weekend sounds awfully good to me. how is the leadership taking this? >> leadership is supportive, even though it wasn't their plan, they are in support of it. they don't want to be in a corner anymore than the rest of us do. we think securing the border, cutting 8% funding next 30 days is something most americans would support. it gives us some time to get these appropriations bills right, larry. we don't want to pay for a border that is wide open. we don't want to pay for a department of justice that is persecuting american citizens for their political beliefs. the way to be able to fix those things to make sure we get the appropriations bills right and

this is an opportunity to do that. so that's why we, why we're considering this proposal. larry: scott perry, a little birdie told me, actually emailed me, that our friend, budget chairman jodey arrington, is coming up with, heaven forbid a balanced budget in 10 years without any tax hikes. i know this is a concept. it is not a is not a reality, but i don't know if the little birdie mentioned it to you either? >> the little birdie didn't mention it to me. i have spoken to the budget chairman, it is intent since being chairman to bring out a balanced budget that balances in 10 years. america supports it. americans every single day balance at their home. what is going out exceeds what is coming in you make a change. you either bring more in and send less out.

that is what we need to do in washington, d.c. what we do in washington, d.c. is destroying the whole economic plan. people cannot afford their electric bill, gasoline, basic staples of life are becoming unaffordable because we refuse to budget correctly in washington, d.c. larry: finally, scott perry, this one is more than a little birdie but i'm reading that speaker, house speaker mccarthy, this is the exact quote, predicts trump will be the party's 2024 nominee and says governor desantis is not even on the same level. if you don't want to comment on this i can understand but kevin mccarthy says trump will getted nod, what do you think? >> if you look at all the early polling results the former president is way ahead of everybody else. of course we respect and love the other people that are in the race. it is great to have a contest but we need a known quantity. we know this president can do.

you know what he can do, the american people know what he can do and goodness, gracious, do we sure need some of that right now. like i said people can't afford their electricity bill, their grocery bill, their gas bill. just three short years ago those weren't even considerations let alone everything else that has occurred. we need the president to be back in the white house. i think president trump is the guy that is going to do that. larry: you know, scott perry, i think, i mean we're talking about the trump interview on nbc, i think middle class working folks need a little love. they need a little love and i think they will get more love from mr. trump. that's just the way it seems to be stacking up. anyway, i hope you can avoid a shutdown and get your budget plan through. scott perry, house freedom caucus, thank you, sir as always. >> thank thank you, larry. god bless you. larry: you betcha. folks we'll move right along, joining us now, wow, mollie hemingway returns to "kudlow."

she is editor-in-chief at "the federalist" and fox news contributor and if that weren't enough, gregg jarrett, fox news legal analyst, author of the "trial of the century," the scopes monkey trial. thanks to beat of you. so we've been discussing mr. trump's interview with nbc. let me put the sound up first. this is mr. trump on corruption and he seems to disagree with the moderator regarding joe biden's corruption. take a listen, and then i will get your comments. thank you. >> of course there is no evidence that the president has any link to his son's business dealings. let me -- >> i don't, i don't necessarily agree. he called in, you mean he called in all these meetings, calling in on meetings? he was put on speakerphone every single day? >> the witness testified -- >> there were many, many calls and what about the fact that he got rid of the prosecutor for a billion dollars? there are a lot of things here.

>> mr. president -- larry: yeah there are a lot of things here. mollie hemingway what do you make of that little dialogue i will call it. >> this was kristen welker's first time hosting "meet the press" as the permanent host. she did this debate with president trump where i think a lot of people were shocked how uninformed or misinformed she is about base, facts such as the biden family influence peddling operation. how joe biden is implicated in a lot of the allegations that are there with the biden family. she ran a lot of defense for president biden, not just on that issue but about doj corruption which is related to this story as well. she also was falsely characterizing democrats abortion position. she lied and said they did not support through all nine months of pregnancy. in fact nearly every elected democrat has voted in favor of that. so it was a very interesting debut for crisco 10 weller and disappointing for a lot of people who hoped it wok improvement over the activism of

chuck todd. larry: i have to say, i said this earlier in the show. i know her. she covered me for while i was working for the white house. i thought she was a very fair reporter but i was kind of disappointed the way she handled this interview. gregg jarrett to say there is no evidence that job joe biden was involved in his son's business or any corruption, ms. welker said that. huh? really? i was just reading, coming down here, "the wall street journal" editorial page which is no friend of donald trump's, nonetheless has a whole list of the various corruption issues that are being discussed. it was very disappointing, gregg. what do you make of it? >> well, she repeated the exact same lie that every hour of every day the mainstream media peddles to the public. they don't understand what evidence is. facts and information constitute evidence. 2 comes in the form of

documentary or testimonial evidence. it is direct or indirect, circumstantial evidence, buff but it is evidence nevertheless. there are volumes of that kind of evidence that implicate as joe biden as directly complicit in his son's influence peddling schemes. the evidence comes in emails and text messages and wire transfers and 170 sars reports flagged by banks to the criminal division at treasury. you know there are white house logs and photographs, documented meetings with hunter biden's partners. he dined with them. all of this constitutes a wealth of evidence. the question, really is, does it rise to the level of criminality, which i think it does, or an impeachable offense, which i also think it probably does. so you know if the media would stop pretending to be lawyers

and defense attorneys for joe and hunter biden and actually open a law book they would be shocked at what they discover. larry: mollie hemingway, can i just ask you, i had jamie comer on, chairman comer on last week and i asked him about subpoenas for hunter biden and other family members and he said something interesting. his strategy is going to be quote, unquote, follow the money. gregg talked about suspicious banking accounts running through treasury. chairman comer is a former banker as you know and i'm kind of partial to that strategy. you can argue about various circumstances and who said what to whom, but if you have hard evidence of bank accounts going from point a to point b, which is where comer started this and wants to continue it i would say that's pretty solid regarding an

impeachment inquiry, but, mollie, i wonder what you thought. is follow the money strategy in your government the best way to go? >> i think it is really important this committee do as much investigation they can outside of the purview of tv cameras. that means you kind of wait until the end to have some of these subpoenas of biden family members after you have collected all of the evidence. they have collect ad lot of evidence already. senator johnson had collected a lot of evidence by 2020 and this is not just about the biden family influence peddling business which no one can really deny. it's also about how the department of justice covered up investigation of that business. how they moved to protect hunter biden and joe biden from a proper investigation and how intimately tied that department of justice is to democrat campaign strategy both in terms of who they protect but also in terms of who they go after and that is something that much more needs to be done but i would wait for some of those explosive televised interviews to happen

at the end. larry: at the end. all right. gregg jarrett, mollie hemingway, we appreciate your comment very much as always. folks coming up, we seem to be headed for 100-dollar oil. brent crude today is almost 95 bucks and we're going back to four dollars a gallon of gasoline. we'll talk about it with former energy secretary with rick perry when "kudlow" returns. you can catch "kudlow" monday through friday at 4:00 p.m. on fox business. you can't catch us at 4:00, just dvr the show, if you don't know how to do that, text your favorite nine-year-old, she will show you how to do it, you will never miss a single thing. ♪. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh.

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♪. larry: well, sure looks like we're headed for 100-dollar oil again. nobody thought so but here we are. that could mean $4 gasoline, could mean $5 gasoline. let's talk toe rick perry, former energy secretary, former texas governor and very dear friend. rick perry, they said it couldn't be done, brent crude is 95 bucks today, okay, $95 today and the aaa national gas price is $3.88 and here we go again

and what's behind this? this is incredible? >> nobody should be surprised, larry, when you, this is just supply and demand. when you complicate it with the strategic petroleum reserve being run down to the levels that it is, trying to manage the market with a tool that's only is supposed to be there for purposes of national defense or national emergency, then this shouldn't have shocked anyone that we're seeing gasoline prices head north again, oil prices head north again. you've got the saudis who have substantially more influence on the market now than they did three years ago when i left office as the secretary of energy. we were independent of no one, excuse me, we were dependent on no one. we were independent in the oil and gas industries, our energy

industry. we were sitting pretty, if you will and, in a short, literally two year period of time shutting down the canadian pipeline, taking those lands out of production, and just as late as what, last week, larry, we saw this administration again taking land out of oil and gas production in alaska, not only soaking the people of alaska right in the nose but also hurting america's energy independence. larry: rick, you know, being cynical about these things, so last year the bidens raided the strategic petroleum reserve in order to get gasoline prices back down in front of the election, all right? now you're going to go back to $4 a gallon, you may go higher than $4 a gallon. some people think world crude will be 125 bucks, you think they would go back into "spro"

and do it again even though the thing is halfway, you know, halfway used up? i mean they have depleted half of it? do you think they would dare do that again next year? >> yeah. well i think they will do it before next year if they think that's what they need to do to help them politically. they don't, you know, they're kind of in this conundrum now. they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. the only thing that can get this back in the direction that, quite frankly they want, but they're not willing to do what it is going to take, that is to basically say to the american oil and gas industry, listen, sorry, we completely fouled this up. we need to help you all with your permitting, with your regula taxation side of it and get america back drilling, producing this incredibly a abundant, i might add one of the cleanest burning fuels in the world is natural gas, larry. why wouldn't this administration

want to send american clean-burning natural gas all around the globe to take those old, inefficient power plants, the coal plants in particular, that china and india are using off-line? larry: you're right. but they're idealogically driven. i mean, trump in the interview with nbc, you know, driving a truck they want to go 2,000 miles f you put an electric trucks you are only going to get 300 miles. there is no common sense, rick perry, with this group, not a sled a sled of common sense. >> that is true, they're living in this never, never land. unfortunately the average american citizen is the one that is going to pay the price. rich people will fly the jets. larry: rick perry, we love you. rick perry, just out of time, folks. i'm kudlow.

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