>> for me, just a matter of trust. i trust the individual, i invest. i don't trust them i don't invest. >> i don't invest in anything that has that do with kevin on the show. liz: [laughter]. i think this is worthless now, because i may have to -- >> great color for you. perfect color for you really with your hair. liz: i wish green were the perfect color for the markets now. we have a selloff. i want to thank daymond john, barbara korb ran, kevin o'leary, what a great conversation. major averages down five of the last six days. [closing bell rings] s&p looks to close down 62. nasdaq down 199. big story with amazon. that will do it for us. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. all right, everyone should read

"wall street journal" columnist and former george w. bush speechwriter william mcgurn's excellent piece called, time for zombie reaganomics. that is in today's "wall street journal." mcgurn calls it zombie reaganism because people think the gypper's free market, low capitalist, low tax, deregulation policies are hopelessly out of sync with modern thinking. people who make that case are mostly part of the new socialism, practiced by today's democratic party. wasn't always so for the democrats. john f. kennedy slashed tax rates. i wrote a book on the subject. ronald reagan always promoted the jfk tax cuts when he himself smashed tax rates in the 1980s, bringing the top income tax rate believe it or not down from 70% to 28%. incidentally joe biden voted for the reagan tax cuts when he was

a senator, just saying. so after the tax cuts the economy boomed in the 1980s, i mean boom boomed. between 1982 which was the end of the carter recession really and 1988 the gdp growth rate was an astonishing 5.4% at an annual rate. it also boomed in the 1960s, growing at an annual rate of 5.8% between '62 and '68. i don't think it is coincidence that tax cut were essential to the rising tide of prosperity in both eras. bill mcgurn finds a great quote which i will repeat and read, why is it inflationary if you keep more of your earnings and spend them the way you want to but it isn't inflationary if the president takes them and spends them the way he wants to? that's reagan saying that about carter.

here is president reagan saying it himself. >> why is it inflationary if you keep more of your earnings and spend the them the way you want to but it isn't inflationary if he takes them and spends them the way he wants to? larry: got it. spot on, mr. gipper. of course i'm proud to be alumnus of the reagan administration when i was a young man. of course i have stayed with reagan's free market supply side principles all these years since, proud to say so. but proudly, most important thing i learned from the gipper is his remarkable sense of optimism. he explained to people why the hapless jimmy carter had to be defeated and then reagan fought the liberal media establishment in a tooth and nail battle for many years but reagan wouldn't give up. the end of the day people supported reagan through thick and thin. he won two landslides in 1980

and 1988 and he launched an economic boom that really lasted through the early 2000s. it really wasn't until the financial meltdown of 2008-2009 that the reagan boom actually ended. pretty remarkable stuff, don't you think? bill mcgurn is exactly right that candidates for president today and i'm thinking specifically of those debating at the reagan library tomorrow night should follow reagan's most successful political textbook, free-market capitalism, not big government socialism is the path to prosperity. supply side policies of low tax rates, deregulation, limited government, reciprocal free trade and a sound, reliable, king dollar are the key factors that could be put in place by a republican in order to begin the

next long-term economic boom with perhaps 5% annual growth. think of it. gop candidates at the debate should not only echo reagan's policies but his confidence, his humility, his ability to connect with ordinary working folks and his optimism regarding the future of america. reagan always said he wasn't really a great communicator. it was the ideas that he was communicating. there you go. let's hear it from these gop candidates so they will be able to persuade america of their virtue and the virtue of their ideas on the economy. we will talk some more about this debate channeling reagan later in the show, but first up, let's talk about the first biden

impeachment inquiry hearing which is set for thursday. joining me now kentucky congressman james comer, chair of the house oversight committee. chairman comer, welcome back to the show. thursday's kind of the new beginning i suppose you could say. i just want, couple things i want to ask surrounding this new beginning on thursday, basically one of them is, if you can tell our viewers what is it you wish to accomplish now in the more formal setting of the impeachment inquiry regarding the oversight committee? what are you looking to get done, mr. comer? >> two things. first of all we want to explain exactly what an impeachment inquiry is and secondly we want to go over all the evidence that we've accumulated thus far. remember, larry, our friends in the mainstream media are trying to create a false narrative there is no evidence of wrongdoing by joe biden and that is simply not the case.

in the beginning they were saying there was no evidence of wrongdoing by anybody. that ship has sail. the media accepted the president's son committed crimes, many serious crimes but this investigation is not about the president's son. this is about joe biden and that is what we hope to get across to the american people on thursday. larry: let's see, your initial witnesses, forensic accountant bruce dubin ski, justice department former assistant attorney general for taxes eileen o'connor, and well-known law professor at gwu, jonathan turley. what will you have them go through? are they the ones who are going to review all of the evidence or will they present new evidence or how is this going to work out? >> i think you will see over the next 48 hours we'll release some new evidence of wrongdoing by the biden family but with respect to the three witnesses

what we want from them is to answer questions from our panel. so we have 26 republicans on the panel and obviously there are 19 democrats will continue to defend the indefensible by defending joe biden at all costs. with respect to the 26 republicans, we want to go over the evidence we accumulated thus far and ask each particular witness what their impression of this evidence is. we have forensic auditors, forensic accountants that will be able to talk about the tax crimes. we have jonathan turley who does a very good job talking about the violation of the foreign agents registration act. he talks about crimes that joe biden himself has committed. then we've got the doj employee that can talk about the coverup. remember there is two problems that we have here. we have the biden crimes and we have the biden coverup. so all three of these witnesses will be able to cover every

angle of what we've been trying to present to the american people for the last several months. larry: can i ask you, speaking of the biden cover cup and the coverup by merrick garland and others, i guess last friday was, anyway, merrick garland as you know testified in front of jim jordan's judiciary committee and basically denied that there was any interference by him or presumably by main justice in the investigations of david weiss as a u.s. attorney, okay? and then you, jason smith of ways and means had uncovered the irs agents, two irs agents who completely denied that and gave pretty hard evidence, pretty firm evidence that the justice department had interfered. now where i'm going here, sir, you got late last week right after merrick garland spoke before judiciary, two more irs

agencies corroborated the report that the justice department discouraged mr. weiss from charging hunter biden, okay? two more. so you have the first two. then you have spot the second two. two plus two equals four irs agents. >> four. larry: even in this woke period two plus two still equals four and when it comes to irs agents you have a lot of evidence that merrick garland was, to put it mildly, not telling the truth. i wanted to get your thoughts on that and how does that figure in your own investigations? >> well it's a problem because again not only are we investigating the crime we're investigating the coverup and with respect to what the irs whistle-blowers, the two initial ones that testified, i believe them. their stories never changed but weiss's story changed many times about merrick garland's level of involvement. now we have two more irs

whistle-blowers have come forward to, to verify what the initial two is when -- whistle-blowers testified, and tomorrow the ways and means committee will release more evidence that the whistle-blowers dropped off to the ways and means committee. we'll talk about that in our hearing on friday. there certainly has been a coverup. it is not just david weiss, with his investigation of the biden family. it is with the national archives, it is with the fbi. we found the 1023 form that alleged joe biden took a bribe. no one investigated that. -- [inaudible]. everyone was, testified that told to stand down. then you have a situation where with the national archives, the general counsel was, testified in a transcribed interview he was told not to cooperate with our committee. all of these things are happening by someone at the department of justice. now whether it's merrick garland or not i don't know but thus far

i don't believe a lot of what merrick garland told the american people. larry: mr. chairman, you will be releasing new evidence this week and chairman jason smith ways and means will also be releasing new evidence, is that what you're saying? >> yes, sir. larry: we'll look forward to that. when will you put this out? is it going to be thursday and when will jason put it out? >> jason will put it out wednesday and we'll talk about it thursday. we have some interesting transactions that will be coming public soon hopefully very soon, but at the end of the day we already have mountains of evidence and the thing that the media is going to regret is all the reporting and all of the fake narratives that they have tried to create that there is no evidence. there is overwhelming evidence, there is overwhelming evidence and we'll continue to get more

evidence despite the fact we're being obstructed by the department of justice, by hunter biden and joe biden's very expensive legal team. what i've said all along, this is like tracking a bleeding bear through a snowstorm. they left evidence everywhere along the way and we're just trying to put it together to present it to the american people. larry: last one, chairman comer, there is with a report, newspaper report actually in "the washington times," sues fan fereccio was the reporter, i asked several people about this but nobody's really nailed this down so i will give my best shot with you. she's reporting that with respect to the statute of limitations regarding hunter biden's taxes, they couldn't go after him either whoever let it lapse, merrick garland, david weiss, i don't know, somebody let it lapse, she is saying that attorneys are telling her

hunter biden never paid the back taxes. he never paid even current taxes. a lot of us thought he had paid. a lot of us thought this los angeles lawyer, this celebrity lawyer whoever it is paid it. maybe paid some of it but not all of his taxes have been paid. therefore, the statute of limitations can be waived and they can foe all the way back to whatever, 2014, 2015, et cetera, that would epup a lot of doors and a lot of investigations and i just wondered has anyone brought this line of reasoning to your attention? can you comment on it? >> we've been told his taxes were paid, that the irs declared he owed. the taxes that he owed was on the w2 from burisma but what the irs whistle-blowers testified, larry, you understand this, the financially illiterate media does not, all those shell

companies, all those 20 plus million dollars from the shell companies took in, they never paid any taxes on those. so his tax liability is significantly more than what he settled for. now it's my understanding that beverly hills lawyer made him current with the irs. that may not be true. that is just what i was told but at the end of the day was on the w2. no one's ever paid taxes on the, money that went through the shell companies and you're talking about, we found over $20 million thus far. so you can do the math and see what he owes. the bidens owe a lot more money than what he was initially hit with by the irs. larry: well, mr. chairman, the headline of this is, hunter biden vulnerable to federal charges for unpaid taxes from his million dollar a year job in ukraine, and i just want to see somebody run that down. i've asked a bunch of people

about it. that's why i'm bringing it to your attention. it is a "washington times" story about three, four days old, that is all it is. i bring it to your attention because i'm not sure, you know, hunter biden, i mean, more investigations on taxes as well as foreign transacts. anyway, i don't want to keep you sir. we look forward to your hearing on thursday. we look forward to your new evidence and we appreciate you coming back on the show. >> thanks for having me, larry. larry: you bet, anytime. coming up here on "kudlow" joe biden is doing nothing to solve the border crisis except to blame donald trump. it is a wondrous thing, wondrous thing, blame trump. we'll talk about it with former director of national intelligence john ratcliffe next up. folks don't forget, fox business will host the second republican primary debate, ronald reagan presidential library, simi

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♪. larry: all right the illegal immigration crisis in america is fantastically, fantastically fantastic, that is what i have to say, beyond what anyone could have possibly imagined. joining me to talk about it is john ratcliffe, former director of national intelligence, former texas congressman, former prosecutor and, he's with the america first policy institute if i'm not mistaken. so, john, welcome back to the show. i wanted to just kind of sit back to talk about this disaster at the border. >> good to see you, larry. larry: did you know that the open border policy is really all president trump's fault?

okay, this is, this is, we have a great quote, recent quote, take a listen to what in biden had to say. president biden: republicans in congress and my predecessor spent four years gutting the immigration system under my predecessor. they continued to undermine our border security today. larry: gutting, gutting. there is a maga quote in there someplace, gutting and maga. flash back from john ratcliffe back in 2021, "sunday morning futures," with my pal maria bartiromo. we have a great quote from but the northern try angle countries. take a listen to this one. >> this is totally unnecessary and now it created a national security issue at our southern border that hadn't existed. president trump's policies ended the migrant crisis two years ago when he required mexico stop its traffic at the southern border and had agreements in place with what we call the northern

triangle countries. larry: the thing is, john, you're responding to biden and it is a great response but trump was able to persuade the left-wing president of mexico, "amlo," obrador, to put troops up, put troops up with the border with guatemala and the mexican south, i think 6,000 troops, john, correct me if i'm wrong and then another 15, 20,000 troops on the american border which helped our administration implement remain in mexico, remain in mexico and if you took that plus the building of the wall which wasn't completed but moved along nicely before biden, and basically viewed an attitude of catch and deport, you know, we really, i don't know we solved everything but we sure slowed it down. now biden has gone into reverse.

i want to ask you, when you look back on this story, you had a lot of experience in these areas, what is the most damaging thing biden has done in your judgment to create what might be as many as eight million illegals and maybe more when you add the got-aways, who knows? >> pretty simple larry, he failed to listen to the intelligence that the u.s. intelligence community i gave to him and presumably his dni shared with him. to put it in context, at the end of the administration, i sat down with haines the dni we talked about china the geopolitical threat that they are. we talked about the circumstances in afghanistan and went into at length with the situation at the border, to show how disingenuous and dishonest joe biden's comments are, as i explained to her and as you accurately recounted, you know there had been a lot of rhetoric

from biden about changing these policies, i emphasized remain in mexico policy, agreements with the northern triangle country, guatemala, honduras, el salvador the impact that had have but not to solve the problem completely, we had no caravans at the border. we had no imminent national security threat and it slowed to a trickle. she was told our intelligence is very clear on this, you reverse these policies you will create a crisis currently does not exist. you're going to threaten the sovereignty and integrity of our territorial borders we'll go back in time. but larry, they were so intent at proving that trump was cruel and his policies were bad that they ignored the intelligence just as they did about china, just as they did about afghanistan with the withdrawal, and it has created a absolute disaster and one that is hard for people, you and i can talk about numbers, you know how

staggering they are, larry, but hard for the average american, the average american voter comprehend when we talk about the increases but i think what i would say hopeful for our country is the percentage and numbers don't mean anything but americans increasingly are seeing migrants impacting their own community. in your city of new york, you have the mayor of new york and new yorkers protesting finally saying this is a real problem because they have gotten a little taste given what we exported from texas up to new york. americans are now experiencing sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, neighbors, dying from fentanyl coming from mexican cartels. god forbid we won't experience anything from the 3,000% increase, 3,000% increase of terrorist watch list suspects encountered at the border from the trump administration to the first two years of the biden administration. so -- larry: i don't understand, here is what i never understood, i'm

not trying to psychoanalyze it, but you know, barack obama under whom biden served as veep as we all know, barack obama deported a lot of people, a lot of illegals and also barack obama locked up a lot of families that crossed over the border, stomach that trump was blamed for, obama is the guy who launched it. here is biden with a completely different policy from obama or trump, literally an open border. literally right now offering work permits and i.d. cards and whatever as an an invitation for illegals to come on over. they crip crippled law enforcement agencies who are babysitters, and administrators. i don't understand it. what is the working theory, i will ask but the military, john, just on this point, a matter of

national intelligence what theory were they operate operating on? >> the difference between the obama administration and biden administration was donald trump who actually said the preamble of the constitution our primary role is provide for the common dense, that means the protect the sovereignty and integrity of our territorial borders. so he built a wall, the wall, in between that period of time the progressive democrat party became the voice of the party, the wall became impetus for change in policy and they really wanted to reverse everything about that. that is why the biden administration policies have been so absurd and they have gone to such great lengths to create an absolutely unnecessary crisis of you know, really inscribable proportion. larry: john, let me ask you one final question from your experience. throughout your career,

prosecutor, house member, dni, the role of the american military and secondly the potential for the american military to work again with the mexican military, i mean the two have always had good relations. they have combined exercises and so forth. presumably enforcing the border instead of opening it and secondly going after the cartels. do you see in a new republican administration no matter whom it is that there will be a return to an american military role and/or expanded military role working with the mexican military? is that a good place to start? >> it is. i think it is actually, you know, you skipped over the first part which is, the bad news in this situation is the problem that we're talking about, larry, there are no solutions in the next two years or year-and-a-half with the biden administration but and i know there has been a lot of talk

about military intervention at the border, into mexico and what not and i think that's a good thing to have that conversation. i want the realm of possibility of that possibility in the minds of the mexican government and the cartel leadership, but what i would say the starting mace, actually, larry, notwithstanding everything you said about our cooperation, including our joint training exercises with the mexican military, is where all of this started, worked in the trump administration was with diplomacy and with donald trump and, you left out your good work, it wasn't just, it was also the tariff aspect and the economic impact on mexico they would have, they would have felt had they not cooperated but those policies really did work, larry, and diplomacy really worked there with mexico, with the leadership in guatamala, honduras, el salvador and i think the good news for the american people about this problem it can work again. larry: yep. >> and so that's where i would

start but having said that your point is absolutely right. you know, if the u.s. military needs to be involved, again, that is, that is the reason we have a federal government is to protect the sovereignty and integrity of our territorial borders which is cheerly not happening. larry: john ratcliffe, thank you, thank you for your visit. talk soon. >> appreciate it. larry: folks, as i mentioned in my riff, reaganesque free-market capitalism, not big government socialism is the path to prosperity. republican candidates need to channel it. liz peek, monica crowley will weigh in. i'm kudlow.se back id n a all that planning has paid off. looks like you can make this work. moment wor. i can make this work. that seems to be universal. i can make this work. i can make this work. no wonder more than 9 out of 10 clients are likely to recommend us. because advice worth listening to

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fox news contributor, monica crowley, former assistant treasury secretary, host of the monica crowley podcast. i got that down pretty good. really i want to see some reaganesque, trumpian too, but we're in the reagan library and he was the guy that sort of restored free-market capitalism and he sure taught me so i want to see that. i don't want these candidates to beat around the bush. i don't care about their 12 point plans. i just want to hear them. >> pro-growth economic policies and yes they all will, including you be at the reagan library but there is updated version of reaganomics which is trumpnomics, tax cuts, egg laboratory relief and tax relief and better trade deals that released release economic boom to every demographic across the country. they all remember it. if these candidates are smart they will run under a pro-growth economic policy. larry: i never hear them though,

maybe i'm picking at knits, but i never hear them talking about free-market capitalism. a year ago, newt gingrich concerned the term big government socialism. it became very popular and there was a lot of truth to it and i never hear them say that, and i think the public is dying to hear about it. >> that was the most important message ronald reagan had, the line i'm from the government and here to help that was the most telling line and every american shivered they heard it, everybody heard it, uaw heard it, they know the government is not helping them. guess what? polling shows people don't want the government more involved in their lives and boy are they getting involved under joe biden. no ceiling fans, no gas stoves, you name it the government is telling you what to do and people don't enjoy it. larry: did you you enjoy

joe biden on picket line, find that a meaningful experience? >> couple minutes of my life i will never get back, larry and liz. he was forced to go because president trump was going tomorrow. he had to do this under political duress. he looked like he did not want to be there. he always sold himself as the average guy from scranton who is really plugged into the unions. he is the working man's leader. i think he is losing the rank-and-file. i think he is hemorrhaging support among the working class because he hasn't delivered for them. they have a very recent point of contrast with president trump, who spent the four years of his first term delivering for the forgotten men and women. larry: i think they know, besides the fall in real wages which is a killer, because they have not had any cola adjustments the wrong time. they're probably asking too much, i get that they haven't had any cola adjustments. they know the green new deal will kill their jobs. >> that is what this strike is all about. larry: the strike against the

green new deal. >> even workers in the picket line when they were interviewed afterwards by one of the fox reporters were saying hey it is about the ev transition. it is bad for them, it is bad for their union. by the way, larry are, it is bad for america because americans don't want these cars. they're expensive and it is not good for our auto industry. larry: yes to all the things you just said. i'm just dying ts not good for our auto industry. larry: yes to all the things you just said. we can have a one sentence response okay? you hear, you here, we, lots of people hear that the democrats will take down joe biden for health, whatever reasons and michelle obama is going to be the candidate of the party. monica crowley. >> yeah, so, cpac march of 2021 i was on the main stage and i predicted that because my friend joel gillbert who has produced a great documentary was the original person to postulate

this, michelle obama 2024 is the documenttry. i think odds are increasing. larry: liz, what do you think? >> one candidate she is terrifying because become as full-blown fund-raising apparatus in america. if democrats can convince her to run it would be a great choice for them. larry: we're going to revisit this down the road. >> i hope so. larry: liz peek, monica crowley, appreciate it very much. joining me new jersey congressman jeff van drew. jeff, welcome back to the show. where are you, there you are. everyone is pulling the plug. i guess you don't get a fair trial anymore. senator menendez looks bad, i get that. he could have called me for his gold quotes. he didn't have to look on the computer. i look at gold every day. no one wants to wait for the trial. they're all calling for his resignation now, governor, senators everybody. i want to know a couple things. number one, can republicans capture menendez's sight, right? it is up for grabs november 24,

and i guess numbers two and three do you want to throw pure hat into the ring and do you think you could beat him? >> well, larry, first of all good to be with you again. we want to get you back in new jersey but in all seriousness, we do, we need you but in all seriousness, they are scared. they are worried, they are concerned because you know, biden's numbers are tanking. people are finally had enough including the good men and women of the state of new jersey who worked so hard just like the rest of the country does. they're tired of these immigration policies because now they were talking about bringing 60,000 illegal immigrants into atlantic city airport. they're tired of what is happening to their school system where kids can make life altering decisions about who they are and how their body functions without any input from their parents. they're tired of them wokefying and destroying our military. you know what they're tired of? they're tired of paying for drag

queen ambassadors to attract a new type of man and woman into the military. you got to be kidding me. they are just tired of demeaning the police. it is time for a conservative, good republican to stand up and really have real values and fight for new jersey and stand up for new jersey. larry: i mean, i don't know, i was surprised, cory booker, senator booker came out and said menendez you have got to resign. i was surprised that governor phil murphy said the same thing last week. i don't know booker. i do know phil murphy but i think that opens the door to a republican. republicans almost captured the statehouse? the last election in new jersey and, wasn't much money spent. so i just wanted to know, are you going to throw your hat into the ring? do you think you could beat menendez, that is all i'm asking? >> if i run i will beat him, whoever is going to run on the republican side. i have to think about this.

serious consideration. this is not a political answer. right now i am focused on this budget deadline that is looming this week. i have to focus on the task at hand and what is going on right now in congress but i will talk about this with my family and my friends, my closest advisors and make a decision. regardless of whomever the candidate is they have to be strong. if we don't stand for something we stand for nothing. they just can't be pabulum. they really have to speak to these issues i just mentioned which are real issues not only in the state of new jersey but in the united states of america. i believe we're at a breaking point. larry: all right. >> and these democrats know that and that is why they are trying to do everything they can, everything is orchestrated. you know years ago i was a democrat. i know how it works and they orchestrate everything. they are working together to move him out as quickly as they can, bring somebody else in, say, this is new and different. this is a better candidate. you should vote for this person. that's the mistake that would be

made if people do vote for them because it's about a philosophy. it is a socialist philosophy. larry: we'll leave it there. free-market capitalism versus big government socialism. >> correct. larry: anyway, new jersey congressman jeff van drew we appreciate it. good luck in your deliberations. folks we'll take a quick break. coming up why does joe biden administration, absolutely, totally, unambiguously hate successful businesses? it is beyond belief. we have jason trennert and joe lavorgna when "kudlow" returns. this isn't just freight. these aren't just shipments. they're promises. promises of all shapes and sizes. each, with a time and a place they've been promised to be. a promise is everything to old dominion, because it means everything to you.

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larry: we've been talking about ronald reagan. promoting free free-market capim as the best path to prosperity. why does joe biden administration, absolutely, totally, unambiguously hate successful businesses? it is unbelievable. jason trennert, strategas securities, joe lavorgna, former national economic council chief economist at the white house, senior fellow at afpi. jason, the ftc once again, lina kahn,. >> i think it is luna kahn, everything they do is defeated in the courts but here they go again. they're attacking amazon,

monopolistic, forcing businesses to use expensive logistics and advertising. if they get their way they will want to break it up. what's your, you're a hotshot institutional investment manager, you look at this stuff, what's up with this? >> i think there are certain elements of this, are almost, if you combine this with say president biden's trip to the picket lines today, almost a book end to reagan's pat costrike. it is the other end we've been talking about the '62 market drop with kennedy and u.s. steel. listen, this is, you can pick on capital a lot when interest rates are low and you can get away with it. when interest rates are higher and you start driving anti-business sentiment it's a big problem and that's exactly what is being reflected in the stock market now. so i don't get it. president biden's numbers are

very low despite the fact you have full employment. larry: yeah. >> this is only going to make it worse. larry: don't gazillions of people use amazon, and like it, joe lavorgna. >> in this case prices have been low. in fact there were various fed studies prior to the pandemic, talking about amazon keeping inflation down especially on the good side. that is a bit surprising as jason side. larry: jason, stocks got clobbered today, the trend is bond rates up. we quoted you last night. you looked at 100 basis points rise in the 10-year from roughly to 3 1/2, 4 1/2%. in fact you also looked at the, ironically the energy sector which is mostly fossil fuels that has done the best under biden because of supply constraints. >> that's right. larry: what's going to happen here? looks like interest rates will stay high and go higher, market

rates. will that drag stock prices down? >> i think so. the hard part for the fed seems to me the fed is fighting the federal government. you're running budget deficits of 5 1/2% of gdp year after year and this is with full employment. lord only knows what the budget deficits would be if you actually had a rough patch in the economy. so it to me inflation is sticky which means 10-year treasury yields will be sticky, and that means you put pressure on earnings multiple especially for what we call the long duration stocks, technology stocks, that don't have profits right away or cash flows well out into the future. larry: be careful. >> i would be very careful here. larry: but joe, you're suggesting to be careful on the economy too. >> i've been negative on the economy, larry, since 2 1/2 years ago, sort of inside joke there. but i am negative on the economy. larry: trying to be polite. >> the leading indicators have been very weak, the yield curve is inverted. larry: yep. >> and i've been negative on

equities typically stocks do not have bull market runs when the equity risk premium is negative, household exposure to stocks is high and unemployment rate is low. larry: did you see the drop in the consumer confidence number today? >> yes, that's a problem. larry: not good. >> larry, to me that reflects the weakness in the labor market, this is only unemployment at 3.8. to jason's point what happens to the deficit when the economy weakens? i'm negative on outlook and by default would i be negative on stocks. i do expect this to be a traditional recession at some point and the fed to cut. we're not there yet but i do think we're moving closer. larry: i tell you, they just do not like business. i'm sorry we don't have more time. we'll get back to it in another segment, another day. they just don't like business, i think particularly they don't like successful business, which is tragic, that is what america is all about, free markets. where is reagan when we need him? jason trennert, joe lavorgna,

appreciate it gentlemen. i will be right back with my last word. ♪ ♪ discover the magnolia home james hardie collection. available now in siding colors, styles and textures. curated by joanna gaines. ♪ explore endless design possibilities. to find your personal style. endless hardie® siding colors. textures and styles. it's possible. with james hardie™.

larry: tomorrow, fox business debate in the reagan library and free advice, republican candidates, think like reagan, supply economics worked once and can work again. now, we will all watch liz macdonald. elizabeth: larry, that never gets old. never gets old, larry kudl