it's even more difficult today. i just talked to a general who told me, "it hasn't been like this since 1973," the year after they got rid of the draft. i get it. the armed services aren't for everybody. some people don't wanna be armed. some people don't wanna serve. it's funny though, how everybody wants to be protected, how we all wanna feel safe. funny how 1.1 million members of this most extraordinary club have paid for every single freedom that we hold dear. if you're not put off by the dukes, and you've heard the call, you can answer it at mikeroweworks.org/haw. see you next week. ♪ ♪ larry: hello, folks, welcome to

"kudlow." i'm larry kudlow. all right. everyone should read "wall street journal" columnist and former george w. bush speech writer william mcgurn's excellent piece called time for so manically regular mommics. that's in today's "wall street journal." mcgurn calls it zombie reaganism because people think the gipper's free market, pro-capitalist, low-tax, deregulation policies are hopefullylessly out of sync with modern thinking. of course, people who make that case are mostly part of the new socialism practiced by today's democratic party. wasn't always so for the democrats. john f. kennedy slashed tax rates. i wrote a book on the subject. ronald reagan always promoted jfk tax cuts when he himself slashed tax rates in the 1980s bringing the top the income tax rate, believe it or not, down from 700% to 28 -- 70% to 28%.

incidentally, joe biden voted for the reagan tax cuts when he was a senator. just saying. so after the tax cuts, the economy boomed in the 1980s. i might, boom boomed. between 1982, which was the end of the carter recession really, and 1988 the gdp growth rate was an astonishing 5.4% at an annual rate. it also boomed in the 1960s growing at an annual rate of 5.8% between '62 and '68, and i don't think it's a coincidence that tax cuts were central to the rising tide of prosperity in both eras. bill mcgurn finds a great quote which i will repeat and read, why is it inflationary if you keep more of your earnings and spend hem the way you want to -- them the way you want to, but it isn't inflationary if the president takes them and spends hem the way he wants to?

if that's reagan saying that about carter. here's president reagan saying it himself. >> why is it inflationary if you keep more of your earnings and spend them the way you want to, but it isn't inflationary if he takes them and spends them the way he wants to? larry: got it. spot on, mr. gipper. of course, i am proud to be an alumnus of the reagan administration when i was a young man. and, of course, i have stayed with reagan's free market supply-side principles all these years since. proud to say so. but proudly, the most important thing i learned from the gipper was his remarkable sense of optimism. he explained to people why the hapless jimmy carter had to be defeated, and then reagan fought the liberal media establishment in a tooth and and nail battle for many years, but reagan wouldn't give up. at the end of the day, people supported reagan through thick and thin.

he won two landslides, in 1980 and 1988, and he launched an economic boom that really lasted through the early 2000s. it really wasn't until the financial meltdown of 2008-2009 that the reagan boom actually ended. pretty remarkable stuff, don't you think? bill mcgurn is exactly right that a candidates for president today -- that candidates for president today, and i'm thinking specifically of those debating at the reagan library with tomorrow night, how old follow reagan's most successful political playbook. free market capitalism, not big government socialism, is the path to prosperity. supply-side policies of low tax rates, deregulation, limited government, reciprocal free trade and a sound, reliable king dollar are the key factors that could be put in place by a republican in order to begin the

next long-term economic boom with perhaps 5% annual growth. think of it. gop candidates at the debate should not only echo reagan's policies, but his confidence. his humility. his ability to connect with ordinary working folks and his optimism regarding the future of america. reagan always said he wasn't really a great communicator, it was the ideas that he was communicating. there you go. let's hear it from these gop candidates so they will be able to persuade america of their virtue and the virtue of their ideas on the economy. nice and simple. all right. we will talk some more about this debate channeling reagan later mt. show -- in the show.

but first up, let's talk about the first biden impeachment inquiry hearing which is set for thursday. joining me now is kentucky congressman james comer, chair of the house oversight committee. chairman comer, welcome back to the show. so thursday's kind of a new beginning, i suppose you could say, and i just want -- there's a couple things i want to ask surrounding this new beginning on thursday. basically, one of them is if you could tell our viewers what is it you wish to accomplish now in the more formal setting of the impeachment inquiry regarding the the oversight committee? what are you looking to get done, mr. comer? >> two things. first of all, we want to explain exactly what an impeachable inquiry is, and secondly -- impeachment inquiry is, and secondly, we want to go over all the evidence that we've accumulated thus far. our friends in the mainstream media are trying to create a false narrative that there's no evidence of wrongdoing by joe biden, and that's simply not the

case. in the beginning, they tried to say there was no ed of wrongdoing by any biden, but i think that ship's sailed, and the media's finally accepted that the president's son has committed, you know, many crimes, many serious crimes. but this investigate isn't about the president's son, this is about joe biden, and that's what we hope to get across to the american people on thursday. larry: let's see, your initial witnesses, forensic accountant bruce dubinski, justice department's former assistant attorney general for taxes eileen o'connor and well known law professor at gwu jonathan turley. what you have them go -- the what a will you have them go through? are hay the ones that are going to review all the we've, or will they present new evidence? how's this going to work out? >> well, i think you'll see over the next 48 hours we're going to

release some new evidence of wrongdoing by the biden family. but with respect to the three witnesses, what we want from them is to answer questions from our panel. so we have 26 republicans on the panel and, obviously, there are 19 democrat cans that'll continue to defend the indefensible by defending joe biden at all costs. but with respect to the 26 the republicans, we want to go over the evidence that we've accumulated thus far and ask each particular witness what their impression of this evidence is. we have forensic auditorses, forensic accountants that are going to be able to talk about the tax crimes. we have jonathan turley who does a very good job talking about the violation of the foreign agents' registration act. he talks about crimes that joe biden himself has committed. then we've got the doj employee that can talk about the cover-up. remember, there's two, two problems that a we have here. we have the biden crimes, and we have the biden cover-up.

so all three of these witnesses are going to be the able to cover every angle of what we've been trying to present to the american people for the last several months. larry: can i ask you, speaking of the biden cover-up and the cover-up by merrick garland and others, i guess last friday was -- anyway, merrick garland, as you know, testified in front of jim jordan's judiciary committee and basically denied that there was any interference by him or room by by main justice -- presumably by main justice in the investigations of david weiss as u.s. attorney, okay? and then you've -- jason smith on ways ask and means had uncovered the irs agentses, two irs agents who completely denied that and gave pretty hard evidence, pretty firm evidence that the justice department had interfered. now, where i'm going here, sir, is you've got late last week right after merrick garland

spoke before judiciary two to more irs -- two more irs agencies corroborated the report that the justice department discouraged mr. weiss from charging hunter biden. okay? two more. so you had the first two, now you have the second two. the two plus two equals four urs agents. even in this woke period, two plus two still equals four. and when it comes to irs agents, you have a lot of evidence that merrick garland was, to put it mildly, not telling the truth. i wanted to get your thoughts on that and how does that figure in your own investigation? >> well, it's a problem because, again, not only are we investigating the crime, we're investigating the cover-up. and with respect to what the irs whistleblowers, the two initial ones testified, i believe them. their stories never changed, but weiss' story has changed many times about merrick garland's

level of involvement. now we have two more irs whistleblowers that have come forward to verify what the initial two whistleblowers testifieded, and i think that tomorrow the ways and means committee's going to release some more evidence that the9 whistleblowers dropped off to the ways and means committee. so we'll be talking about that at our hearing on friday. there certainly has been a cover-up. and it's not just with david weiss' investigation of the biden family, it's also with the national archives, it's the with the fbi. you know, we found the 1023 form that alleged joe biden took a bribe. well, no one investigated that. [audio difficulty] testified they were told to stand down. then you've got a situation with the national archives, the general counsel testified in a transcribed interview that he was told not to cooperate with our committee. all of these things are happening by someone at the department of justice.

whether it's merrick garland or not, i don't know, but thus far i don't believe a lot of what merrick garland's telling the american people. >> so, mr. chairman, you will be releasing new evidence this week, and chairman jason smith of ways and means will also be releasing new evidence, is that what you're saying? >> yes, sir. larry: and we can look, we will look forward to that? are you going to -- when will you put this out? is it going to be thursday? when will jason put it out? >> jason will put it out wednesday, and we'll talk about it thursday. we have some interesting transactions that'll be becoming public soon, hopefully, very spoon. but at -- very soon. but at the end of the day, we already have a mountain of evidence. and the thing that the media's going to regret is all the reporting and all the the fake narratives that they've tried to create that there's no evidence. there's overwhelming evidence.

there's overwhelming evidence, and is we're going to continue to get more evidence despite the fact that we're being obstructed by the department of justice, by hunter biden and joe biden's very expensive legal team. it's what i've said all along, this is like tracking a bleeding bear through a snowstorm. they've left evidence everywhere along the way, and we're just trying to put it together and present it to the american people. larry: last one, chairman comer. there's a report, there was a newspaper report actually in "the washington times," susan ferrechio was the the reporter, and i've asked several people about this but nobody 's really nailed this down, is so i'm going to give it my best shot with you. she's reporting that with respect to the statute of limitations regarding hunter biden's taxes, they couldn't go after him because either -- whoever let it lapse, merrick garland, a david weiss, i don't know, somebody let it lapse. but here's the argument, sir, and i want to get your opinion. she's saying that attorneys are

telling her hunter biden never paid the back taxes. he never paid even current taxes. a lot of us thought he had paid. a lot of us thought this los angeles lawyer, this celebrity lawyer whoever it is, paid it. maybe he paid some of it, but not all his taxes have been paid. therefore, the statute of limitations can be waived. and they can go all the way back to whatever, 2014, 2015, etc., etc. now, that would open up a lot of doors and a lot of investigations. and i just wondered, has anyone brought this line of reasoning to your attention? can you comment on it? >> well, we've been told that his taxes were paid, that the irs declaredded he owed. and the taxes that that he owed was on the w2 from burisma. but what the irs whistleblowers

testified, larry, all those shell companies, all those 20 the plus million dollars the shell companies took in, they never paid any taxes on those. so his tax liability is significantly more than what he settled for. now, it's my understanding that that beverly hills lawyer made him current with the irs. now, that may not be true, that's just what i was told. but at the end of the day, that's only on what he was, you know, the w2. no one's ever paid taxes on the money that went through the shell companies. and you're talking about we found over $20 million thus far, is so you can do math and see what he owes. the bidens owe a hot more money -- a lot more money than what he was initially hit with by the irs. larry: well, mr. chairman, i will just read the headline of this is hunter biden vulnerable to federal charges for unpaid taxes from his million dollar a year job in ukraine. and i just want to see somebody

run that down. i've asked a bunch. to -- bunch of people about it, it's why i bring it to your attention. it's a "washington times" story about three, four days old. that's all it is. anyway, i bring it to your attention because i'm not sure, you know, hunter biden, i mean, more investigations on taxes as well as the foreign transactions. anyway, i don't want to keep you, sir. we hook forward to your hearing can be look forward to your hearing on thursday, we will look forward to your new evidence, and we appreciate your coming back on the show. >> thanks for having me, larry. larry: you bet. anytime. coming up here on "kudlow," joe biden is doing nothing to solve the border crisis except to blame donald trump. it's a wondrous thing, a wondrous thing, blame trump. we'll talk about it with former director of national intelligence john ratcliffe next up. and, folks, don't forget fox business will be hosting the second republican primary dea bait -- debate at the ronald reagan presidential library,

simi valley, california, tomorrow night, 9 p.m. eastern. yours truly will also be broadcasting live out of simi valley for our regular show at 4 p.m. eastern, 1 p.m. pacific, but i will also be hosting the pre-debate coverage at a 8 p.m. eastern and 5 a # p.m. pacific. we're up to 14 guests, i've got to figure out how i'm going to do in this. and believe me, these are not shrinking violets. i'm kudlow, and i look forward to the new evidence from chairman comer. ♪ ♪

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larry: all right, the illegal immigration crisis in america is fantastically, fantastically fantastic, that's what i'll have to say. i mean, beyond what anyone could have possibly imagined. joining me to talk about it is john ratcliffe, former director of national intelligence, former texas congressman, former prosecutor, and he's with the america first policy institute, if i'm not mistaken. so so, john, welcome back to the show. i wanted to just kind of sit back and talk to you about this disaster at the border. did you know that the open border policy is really all of

president trump's fault, okay? [laughter] this is joe biden. this is -- we have a great quote, recent quote. take a listen to what mr. biden had to say. >> the maga republicans in congress and my predecessor spent four years gutting the immigration system under my predecessor. they continued to undermine our border security today. larry: gutting. there's a maga quote in there someplace too. gutting and maga. now, flash back from john ratcliffe back in 2021, "sunday morning futures" with my pal, maria bartiromo, we have a great quote from you about the northern triangle countries. take a listen to this one. >> this was totally unnecessary, and now it's created a national security issue at our southern border that hadn't existed. president trump's policies ended the migrant crisis two years ago when he required that mexico stop its traffic at the southern border and had agreements in

place with what we call the northern triangle country countries. larry: and the thing is, john, so you're responding to biden, and it's a great response. but trump was able to persuade the left-wing president of mexico, obrador, the put troops up, put troops up on the border with guatemala and mexico, i think 6,000 troops, john, correct me if i'm wrong, and another 15 or 20,000 troops on the american border which helped our administration implement remain in mexico. remain in mexico. and if you took that plus the building of the wall which wasn't completed but moved along nicely before biden and basically if an attitude of catch and deport, you know, we really -- i don't know that we solve everything, but we sure slowed it down.

now biden's gone into reverse. so i want to ask you, when you look back on this story, you've had a lot of experience in these areas, that what's the most damaging thing that biden has done, in your judgment, to create what might be as many as 8 million illegals and maybe more when you add the gotaways? who knows? >> pretty simple, harry. he failed to listen -- larry. he failed to listen to the u.s. intelligence committee that i gave him and that presumably his dni shared with im. -- him. so to put all of that in context. part of the transition, i sat down with the current dni, and we talked about threats to america. we went through why china is the geopolitical threat that they are, or we talked about the circumstances in afghanistan, but we went into at length of the situation at the border. and to show how disingenuous and dishonest joe biden's comments are, as i explained to her and as you just accurately

recounted, you know, there'd been a lot of rhetoric from biden about changes -- changing these policies. i emphasized the agreements with guatemala, you know, honduras, el salvador and showed, you know, the impact that it, that had had not to solve the problem completely, but we had no caravans at the border, we had no imminent national security threat. it had really slowed to a trickle. and she was told, look, our intelligence is very clear on this. you reverse these policies, you're going to create a crisis that is currently does not exist. and, you know, you're going to threaten the sovereignty and integrity of our territorial borders, and we're going to go back in time. but, larry, they were so intent at proving that trump was cruel and his policies were bad that they ignored the intelligence just as they did about china, just as they kid with afghanistan in the crawl -- did with afghanistan in the withdrawal, and it has created an absolute disaster and one that's hard for people -- you and i can talk about the

numbers. you know how staggering they are, larry. they're just -- but it's hard for the average american or the average american voter to comprehend when we talk about the increases. but i think what i would say is hopeful for our country is the percentages and the numbers don't mean anything, but americans increasingly are seeing migrants impacting their own community. in your city of new york, you now have the mayor of new york and new yorkers protesting finally saying this is a real problem because they've gotten a little taste given what we've exported from texas the up to new york. americans are now experiencing sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, neighbors dying from fentanyl that's coming from mexican cartels. and, you know, god forbid we won't experience anything from the 3,000% increase, 3,000% increase of terrorist watch list suspects encountered at the border from the trump administration to the first two years of the biden administration. so, you know -- larry: but i don't understand,

here's what i never understood, and i'm not trying to psychoanalyze it. but, you know, barack obama under whom biden served as veep, we all know, barack obama deported a lot of people. a lot of illegals. and also barack obama locked up a lot of families that crossed over the border, stuff that trump was blamed for obama was the guy who launched it. so here's biden with a completely different policy from obama or trump. literally an open border. i mean, literally right now offering work permits and id cards and whatever as an invitation for illegals to just come on over. and they've crippled the law enforcement agencies who are now essentially administrators and babysitters, not law enforcement. they've done everything possible. i don't understand. what is the working theory, and and then i'm going to ask you about the military but, john,

just on this point, as a matter of national intelligence, what theory were they operating on? >> well, the difference between the obama administration and the biden administration was in between you had donald trump with who actually is said, look, the preamble to our constitution says our primary role is to provide for the common defense and that means protect the sovereignty and integrity of our territorial borders, and he built a wall. and the wall and many between that period of time progressive democrat party became the voice of the party, and the wall became really the impetus for the change in policy. they really wanted to reverse everything about that, and that's why the biden administration policies, you know, have been so absurd and they've really, they've gone to such great lengths to create, again, an shul unnecessary -- an absolutely unnecessary crisis of really indescribable proportion. larry: john, let me ask you one final question.

from your experience throughout your career, prosecutor, house member, dni, the role of the american military and, secly, the potential -- secondly, the potential for the american military to work again with the mexican military, i mean, the two have always had good relations, they have combined exercises and so forth. you know, presumably enforcing border instead of opening it and, secondly, going after the cartels. do you see many a new republican administration no matter whom it is that there will be a return to an american military role and/or an expanded military role working with the mexican military? is that a good place to start? >> it is. i think it's actually, you know, you skipped over the first part which is, you know, the bad news in this situation is the problem that we're talking about, larry, there are no solutions in the next two years or the next year and a half with the biden administration. larry: yeah.

>> but -- and i know there's been a lot of talk about, you know, military intervention at the border and into mexico and what not, and i think that's a good thing, to have that conversation. i want the the realm of possibility, of that possibility in the minds of the mexican government and the cartel leadership. but what i would say the starting place actually, larry, is not withstanding everything you said about our cooperation including our joint training exercises with the mexican military is where all of this started and and worked in the trump administration was with diplomacy and with donald trump -- and you left out your good work. it wasn't just, it was also the tariff as aspect and the economic impact on mexico that they would have, that they would have felt had they not cooperated. but those policies really did work, larry. and diplomacy really worked there. with mexico, with the leadership in guatemala, honduras, el salvador. and i think the good news for the american people about this problem is it can work again.

larry: yep. >> and so that's where i would start. but having said that, your point is absolutely right, you know? if the u.s. military needs to be involved, again, that is, that is the reason we have a federal government is to protect the sovereignty and integrity of our territorial borders which is clearly not happening. larry: john ratcliffe, thank you. thanks for your visit. appreciate it, talk soon. all right, folks, as i mentioned in my riff, reagan-esque free market capitalism, not big government socialism, is the path to prosperity. the republican candidates need to channel it. we've got liz peek and monica crowley weighing in. stick around, i'm kudlow. back in my relationship with my credit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college and, no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. between the high interest, the fees... i felt trapped. so i broke up with my credit card debt and consolidated it into a low-rate personal loan from sofi. i finally feel like a grown-up. break up with bad credit card debt.

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♪ larry: so i'll say it one more time, reagan-esque free market capitalism, not big government socialism, should appear again and again at tomorrow night 's republican debate at the reagan library in simply valley. we will see -- simi valley.

liz peek, monica crowley, former assistant treasury secretary and host of the monica crowley podcast. i got that down pretty good. [laughter] everyone -- i mean, really, i want to see some reagan-esque -- trumpian too the, you know, but we're in the reagan library, and he was the guy that sort of restored free market capitalism, and he sure taught me. i want to see that. i mean, i don't want these candidates to beat around the bush. i don't even care about their 12-point plans. i just want to hear them -- >> pro-growth, economic policies and, yes, they all will. there's an updated version of reaganomics called trump economic, right? tax cuts, regulatory relief, unleashing our great energy sector and fairer trade deals. that delivered a more recent economic boom to every demographic across the country. they all remember it. these candidates, if they're smart, they'll run on a pro-growth economic policy. larry: i never hear them though,

i mean, maybe i'm picking, but i never really hear them talk about free market capitalism. and, you know, a year ago, a year and a half ago newt gingrich coined the term big government socialism, and i think there was an awful hot of truth to it. thinkty -- i think the public is dying to hear them talk about it. >> and i think that was probably the most important message that reagan had, i'm from the government and i'm here to help, that is probably the most telling thing he ever said. every american sliver when they heard those -- shiveredded when they heard those words because they heard it. evens herald -- everybody's heard it. they know the government is not helping them. guess what in polling shows people don't want the government more involved in their lives if and, boy, are they getting involved under joe biden. no ceiling fans, no gas stoves. i mean, you name it, the government is telling you what to do, larry, and is people don't like that. larry: did to you enjoy joe

biden on the uaw picket lines today? [laughter] did you find that a meaningful moment in your life ooh's ebbs appearance? >> well, it's a couple of minutes of my life i'll never get back, larry and liz, unfortunately. he was forced to go because president trump is going tomorrow, so he had to do this under political duress. he has always sold himself as the the average guy from scranton who is really plugged into the unions. he's a working man's leader, right? well, i think he's losing the rank and file. i think he is hemorrhaging support. among the working class because he hasn't delivered for them. and they have a very recent point of contrast with president trump who spent the four years of his first term delivering for the fort gotten men and women. -- forgotten men and and women. larry: i mean, i think they know despite the falling wages, which is a real killer. i mean, they didn't have any c.o.l.a. adjustments, but they know that the green new deal is going to kill their jobs.

>> that's what this strike is all about. larry: you're right. >> even the workers on the picket line when they were interview afterwards by one of the fox reporters were saying, hey, it's really about the ev transition. we know this is bad. it's bad for them, it's bad for their union. by the way, larry, it's bad for america because americans don't want these cars. they're expensive, and it's not good for our auto industry. larry: yes to all the things you just said. i'm just dying to ask this last question. if we can have a one-sentence response, okay in you hear, you, we, lots of people hear that the democrats are going to take down joe biden for health or whatever reason, and michelle obama is going to be the candidate of the party. monica crowley. >> you think, yes?

>> increasing, yes. larry: liz peek, what do you think -- [inaudible] awed know. [no audio] >> well, she is the one candidate that would be terrifying because she comes with a full blown fund raising apparatus. larry: i want to know a couple things. number one, can republicans capture menendez's seat, right? it's up for grabs november '24.

and i guess numbers two and three, do you want to throw your hat into the ring and do you think you could beat him? >> well, larry, first of all, it's good to be with you again, and we want to get you back in new jersey. [laughter] but in all seriousness -- we do. we need ya. the but in all seriousness, they are scared. they are worried. they are concerned. because with, you know, biden's numbers are tank thing. -- tanking. people have finally had enough including the good men and women of the state of new jersey who work so hard just like the rest of the country does. they're tired of these immigration policies because now they were talking about bringing 60,000 illegal immigrants into atlantic city airport. they're tired of what's happening to their school system where kids with make life-altering decisions about who they are and how their body functions without any input from their parents. they're tire of them wokefying and destroying our military. you know what they're tired of in they're tired of a paying for

drag queen ambassadors to attract a new type of man and woman into the military. you gotta be kidding me. they are just tired of demeaning the police. it is time for a conservative, good republican to stand the up and really have real values and and fight for new jersey and stand up for new jersey. larry: i don't know, i was surprised cory booker, senator booker, came out and said, senator menendez, you've got to resign. i was surprised governor phil murphy said the same thing. i don't know booker, i do know phil murphy. i think that opens the door to a republican. republicans almost captured the statehouse in the last election in new jersey, and there wasn't much money spent. so i just want to know, are you going to throw your hat in the ring? do you think you could beat menendez? that's all i'ming asking. >> oh, if i run, i'll beat him. if i run, i'll beat whoever's going to run on the republican side. but i have to think about this. serious consideration, and and

this is not a political answer. right now i am focused on this budget deadline that's looming this week. larry: yeah. >> i have to focus on the task at hand and what's going on right now in congress. but i'm going to talk about this with my family, my friends, my closest advisers and make a decision. regardless of whomever the candidate is, they have to be strong. if we don't stand for something, we stand for nothing. they just can't be cattle. they really have have to peek to these issues that i just mentioned which are real issues not only in the state of new jersey, but in the united states of america. i believe we're at a breaking point, and these democrats know that, and that is why they are trying to do everything they can. everything is orchestrated, you know? years ago i was a democrat. i know how it works. they orchestrate everything. they're working together to move them out as with quickly as they can, bring somebody else in and say, oh, this is new and different, this is a better candidate and you should vote for this person. that's the mistake that would be made if people do vote for them

because it's about a philosophy. larry: all right, we'll leave it there. >> it's a socialist philosophy. larry: yeah. listen, free market capitalism versus big government socialism. >> correct. larry: jeff van drew, we appreciate it. good luck on your deliberations. all right, folks, coming up, why does joe biden's administration absolutely, totally, unambiguously hate successful businesses? it's beyond belief. we have jason trend art and joe lavorgna when "kudlow"

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larry: we've been talking about ronald reagan promoting free market capitalism as the best path to prosperity. why does joe biden's administration absolutely, totally, unambiguously hate successful businesses? i mean, it's unbelievable. joining us now to talk a little bit about it, jason trend part and joe lavorgna, chief economist at smbc knee coe and former economic counsel, chief economist at the white house. jason, the finishing tc once -- ftc, once again lena khan, everything they do they are defeated in the courts, but here they go again. they're attacking amazon, which is monopolistic, forcing

businesses to use expensive logistics and advertising. if they get their way, they're going to want to break it up. what's your, you know, you're a hot shot institutional investment manager. you look at this stuff, what's up with this? >> well, listen, there are certain elements of this that are almost -- if you combine this with, i'd say, president biden's trip to the picket lines today, it's almost a bookend to reagan's patco strike. larry: right. >> it's the other end, it's a little bit more, we've been talking about a little bit about the '62 market drop with kennedy and u.s. steel. listen, this is -- you can pick on capital a lot when interest rates are low and you can get away with it. when interest rates are higher and you start driving anti-business sentiment, it's a big problem. and that's exactly what's being reflected in the stock market now. so i don't get it. president biden's numbers are

very low she despite the fact we have full employment, and this is only going to make it worse. larry: don't gazillions of people use amazon and like it, joe? >> i think in this case prices have been low. in fact, there were various studies prior to the pandemic that talked about technology which am southern was clearly a big -- amazon was clearly a big input. sos it is a bit surprising, as jason said. larry: stocks got clobbered today, but the trend is bond rates up. we quoted you last night, you looked at the hundred basis point rise in the 1010-year -- in the 10-year, in fact, you also looked at the -- [laughter] ironically the energy sector which is mostly fossil fuels that's done the best under biden because of supply constraints. what's going to happen here? it lookses like interest rates are going to stay high and may go higher, market rates. will that drag stock prices

down? >> i think so. the hard part for the fed, it seems to me, is the fed is fighting the federal government. you're running budget deficits of 5.5% of gdp year after year, and this is with full employment. is so lord only knows what the budget deficits would be if you actually had a rough patch in the economy. so it, to me, inflation's sticky which means that 10- year treasury yields are going to be sticky, and that means you're going to put pressure on earnings multiples especially for a lot of what we call the long door can ration stocks, the technology stock stocks, that don't have profits right away, cash flows well out into the future. larry: be with careful. >> i would be very careful here. larry: joe, you're suggesting to be careful on the economy too. >> i've been negative on the economy, larry, since maybe who two and a half years ago? inside joke there. [laughter] i am negative on the economy. larry: being polite. >> the leading indicators have been very week. -- weak. the yield curve is inverted, and i've been negative on equities because typically stocks do not

have bull markets when the equity risk premium is negative and the unemployment rate is lo- larry: do you see the drop in the consumer confidence number today? >> yes, that's a problem. larry: not good. >> but, larry, that to me reflects the weakness in the labor market. and, again, this is with unemployment at 3.8. to jason's point, what happens when the economy weakens? so i am negative on the outlook. and then by default i would be negative on stocks. i do expect there to be a traditional recession at some point and the fed e to cut. we're not there yet, but i do think we're moving closer. larry: i'll tell you, they just do not like business. i'm sorry we don't have more time. we'll get back to it in another segment, another day. they just don't like business. and if i think particularly they don't like successful business which is tragic, because that's e what america is all about. freedom, free markets. oh, my god. where's reagan now that we need him? jason, joe, thank you, gentlemen. we appreciate it very much. i'll be right back with my last

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