one more rate hike, do you think? >> i wouldn't be surprised to see another rate hike, but we see inflationary periods but again strong demand still for restaurants and travel in my opinion. we think people are willing to pay up. yes, would you think that interest rates hitting people in the pocketbook but we're not seeing it in a drop-off in demand yet. liz: yet is the key here. dan, always a pleasure to have you, thank you very much. dan ahrens. the september slump spilling a bit over into october. [closing bell rings] dow down on the first trading day of month. s&p just and nasdaq. tomorrow super analyst dan niles. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. all right, right at the top, a

crazy judge and a socialist state attorney general trying to take donald trump's businesses away from him. even by new york standards this is an out of sight interplanetary assault on a, private property, b, the u.s. constitution, and c donald trump. now the latter is leading the gop primary field by more or less 50 percentage points and he is running ahead of joe biden for the presidency by five to 10 points. so the socialists who are absolutely terrified by a trump victory are now working to put him in jail for 750 years, take all of his assets away and all of his businesses. am i simplifying? i don't think so. the state ag, letitia james, she ran against trump in her election even though he was not on the ballot, and so did the new york prosecutor alvin bragg. they were working on legal attacks even before they took office.

no evidence needed of course. now they foisted these injustices against the former president in real time, probably trying to tie him up in court so he won't go outthe campaign trail and extend his lead over joe biden to 15 points. here is the former president earlier today in downtown new york city at the courthouse. take a listen. >> this is a continuation of the single greatest witch-hunt. most people get it. people are getting it. i can tell you voters are getting it because every time they give me a fake indictment i go up in the polls and that has never happened before but this is a disgrace. larry: well you know, i think he is onto something. radical democrats don't give one hoot about laws or the u.s. constitution. but if anybody took a look at such things they would note that taking over mr. trump's businesses violates the 14th amendment which ordains, no

state, and i quote, deprive any person, of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, end quote. now comes this whole business of valuing trump properties with a particular emphasis obviously on mar-a-lago. so the new york judge is using this ridiculous 18 million-dollar from the palm beach county tax assessors office but the trumps are using 420 million to $600 million. property appraiser said clubs of mar-a-lago are based on membership, numbers, dues, the cost to run the facility. these valuations are quote, these valuations are for tax purposes only and not for financing or for a lending institution. hat tip to caroline mccoy of

"the new york sun" for printing that up. it is ultradumb for a new york judge to use assessment to measure lending value or financing number on a phony number. i know the judge knows exactly what he is doing. it is hard to believe this will ever hold up in new york even new york. you have residential property sales in palm beach that far, seed $18 million. rush limbaugh's widow sold their palm beach estate for 155 million bucks. real estate brokers suggest mar-a-lago could be worth $500 million or a billion. if this is a crime, who is the victim? there is no vick tin. it is a valuation dispute but it should be a serious valuation dispute, not a ridiculous one. on top of that the bank lenders have all been paid particularly deutsche bank and they're not complaining. how can conclude anything else

but this is bunch of left-wing democrats manipulating the judicial system once again for their own political gains. that is what these trump indictments are actually about. who knows, after today's court appearance, mr. trump's ratings may go up another 10 points. very possible. that's my riff. joining me now the great new york city, upstate new york, what am i saying, the great, just in general the great congresswoman claudia tenney. claudia, welcome back to the show. claudia, you've been to mar-a-lago. you think it is not worth more than 18 million bucks, what do you think about this story? >> it doesn't matter. you talked about it exactly right this is a valuation. everybody goes out to get an appraisal when they want to sell their house or their commercial property and appraisers somehow come out with a little higher value to lure a seller. it is not illegal. it could be maybe puffing but

not some kind of intentional fraud. then when you want to get your taxes lowered in certiorari petition i've done many of those, sometimes the appraiser comes in a little lower. it is not about a transaction where they're stealing money. look at another thing letitia james says. i want to make sure he has no business in new york. how many thousands of jobs, how many hundreds of millions of dollars of taxes and economic impact is the trump organization with state of new york and everywhere in the united states where there are trump organizations. why isn't deutsche bank, any of these massively huge banks objecting to any of this? this is about getting inside of a commercial transaction and trying to litigate it, trying to find anything that they can on trump. this shows how pathetic it is going for civil fraud? there is, no one is going to jail for this. this is absurd. i called for her to be disbarred. i called for her to be removed from office because she is totally involved in this

malicious prosecution and abusive process like all the other prosecutors from merrick garland on down, they're dirty cops. larry: yes, dirt cops. that is what she ran against donald trump that was her campaign. state attorney general ran against donald trump. these are trumped charges. they were ready to do this during the campaign even though trump was not on the ballot in new york. there is no victim. they're violating the constitution. claudia, one other point, this is about market value versus tax assessor value or market appraisal. the county tax assessor said that their 18 million-dollar number had nothing to do with the market. you shouldn't use it for lending purposes or financial valuation purposes. they said that. this judge went ahead and used that anyway. i don't want to beat a dead horse. >> you're right. larry: trump numbers will go up another 10 points. it is crazy. they want to take away all his

businesses, claudia. it is not fair. let us move on, we have bigger fish to fry or do we. mat gates versus kevin mccarthy. how does that fish? live sunday fox news show. take a listen, claudia. >> matt's probably planned this from the day i ran for speaker if you watched. he never voted for it. the difficulty is, matt who was the individual who voted against our most conservative bill that would have secured the border. i want to secure the border. he wants to secure interviews. that's okay. let him do that. larry: you heard him, claudia. give us your take on this will speaker mccarthy remain speaker mccarthy? what is matt gaetz up to? what does the republican conference think of all this? >> i think people are fed up. that being said i came into congress with treshman matt gaetz, he is smart and personable guy. this is personality conflict between kevin and matt gaetz.

i think this is unfortunate because we have really important things to do. i like what happened this weekend. i want to vote for the most conservative, expense cutting measures that we can especially focus on when we need to do securing our border. we attached our great hr.2 which would do all the things to do on the border to the bill matt and others voted against sadly. we were in a bind, we had to face a government shut down. your audience will understand this, as a former lawyer, someone involved in bankruptcies, commercial law, banking law, tax law, i felt like we're looking at a chapter 7, if we went into shutdown that is like going into chapter 7 bankruptcy, only way out administrate tougher way out, the democrats control that. had we not done the bill i didn't like voting for but i voted for, we had to keep the government open to preserve ourselves another day. now we're in chapter 11. we have to get the

appropriations bills done. unfortunately some of the people on the right, and i'm on the right as well are blocking the appropriators from getting these bills done. then matt foes after kevin mccarthy and says the bills are not done. if you would let us get the bills done in regular order we could get them to the floor with a vote then we could get this did not. it is really unfortunate we're looking at chapter 11 right now. we have 45 days to fix this. no one wanted to vote for the bill but the worst-case scenario, shutting government down. this is chapter 7. we would put it in the hands ever democrats in the house, senate democrats, joe biden that was not an option for any of us. that is why kevin kind of pull ad rabbit out of the hat, speaker gave us the vote to save the day and forced the senate into voting for something they didn't want and they kept the government open and lived to fight another day. larry: i thought it was a stunning ploy to get it done at

the last minute literally. the thing i don't understand, claudia, what good does a motion to vacate the speaker's chair, what good is that now? i don't understand that. >> they control the white house which by the way has the most powerful arms of government, the fbi, doj, bureaucratic agencies that have a lot of police power that are working against us and they can control the senate by a narrow margin but they control the senate. we have a four-seat majority. that's it. we have to start playing a finesse game. yes we want to dominate and control but not when you have a four seat majority in slim part of government. we have to stand up to stick together. the democrats would stick together and they did. we need to stick together. we have to stop thinking if we don't get a hail mary pass or touchdown or 10% wins or making first downs we'll never win anything. democrats play the long game. they will take a 10% win a 10% win a 10% win and before you know it they have taken over.

we have to be willing to fight the long game. larry: a couple of quick ones here. jamaal bowman, jamaal bowman pulling the fire alarm. everybody got up and walked out. this is the dumbest thing i have ever seen. that is not true. maybe the top five dumbest things i've seen in recent years. you know with all his phony excuses will he be admonished, will he be punished? do we have some pictures of him pulling this alarm here? you will see this. we're showing the video, it is fantastic. you cannot mistake this fire alarm, pulling the fire alarm, you can't mistake that from a door opener, normal door opener you just can't, i'm sorry. claudia what do you think, should he be punished or whole thing be dropped or what? >> no, he absolutely has to -- this is a crime actually in d.c. then you could actually make that argument which i said on twitter is, if the people who didn't even come to washington

were charged with interfering with an official proceeding, let me tell you what was happening while he was doing this on the floor? we were trying to get the bill passed, continuing resolution to the government open. democrats were stalling, sitting in the well of the chamber, allows them to vote one by one. they were stalling knew the senate would go into vote on bill they already passed. timing of essence he was trying to slow things down. i don't know that for sure. i won't be surprised. it isn't coincidental causing a delay when the democrats were trying to slow walk a vote in order for the senate to act, to prevent us for getting the bill done, to blame us for the shutdown and priorities they wanted in the senate bill. instead we got, this is just a colossal error on his part. it makes the democrats look bad. he has to be prosecuted on this. this is misdemeanor under d.c.

law. people are going to jail after january 6th cases for what you could be argue would be a similar case. larry: absolutely. i hope he gets charged. i hope it goes through. >> me too. larry: last one, claudia, you've been great, you're always great, you've been a superstar. listen to our pal the great mark levin, on "life, liberty & levin" last night. listen what he says about impeachment. a president is required to enforce especially a clear law whether he or she likes it or not. they take an oath to uphold the constitution, to uphold the law and if they fail to do that then they violated their oath and they have violated the constitution, the impeachment clause kicked in. has joe biden upheld federal immigration law? no. has joe biden violated federal immigration law? yes. what about his effort and more than effort, the fact of his circumventing a supreme court decision that says under

separation of powers, mr. biden, as president you don't have the authority to forgive student loans to the tune of maybe a trillion dollars? his family had introductions to enemy states and some allies, to front corporations from which his family benefited to go the tune of anywhere from $30 million to $50 million. there is simply no question it not only is worthy of an impeachment inquiry, in my view, in my view it is worthy of an impeachment trial at this point. larry: all right. so claudia, levin, who is a very smart guy, is saying impeachment potential regarding breaking of the immigration laws at the border and student loans and supreme court said no, you can't, cancel the student loans. you don't have that executive authority. that is legislative mandate. then finally the biden stuff

where all of the phony llcs might have taken in 30 to $50 million. you're involved in the oversight for the ways and means committee. i'm concerned that you know, a battle over the speaker's chair, this and that will take away the whole impeachment inquiry intensity but do you agree with levin, that these charges are there, they're real and will this campaign continue on the republicans part? >> yes. i think we need to continue to do that. remember afghanistan, i assess that is also an impeachmentable offense the way biden pulled out of afghanistan. left 13 of our servicemembers to die. dealing with the border, violating laws. primary role of federal government is border security and national defense. he is abject in those issues. when you get to what happened uncovered thanks to whistle-blowers, we got information out of the irs, you have obstruction of justice because his own doj, department

of justice dirty cop merrick garland, representatives like leslie wolf in delaware have been trying to prevent this information combing forward. that was part of the key issue. also showing there was influence peddling. there is bribery from the biden administration, where the testimony comes from shulkin. fbi informant chuck grassley put out corroborates a lot of this testimony and all these things are happening with biden yet this is what we need to focus on, going after biden, making sure we uphold justice. have a one system of justice, equal justice under the law for everyone. making sure our constitutional laws are carried out through the presidency and his unique executive powers. mark levin is exactly right. we should be doing this instead of focusing on personality conflicts going on the house side. we have a very slim majority. this is all we have to save this country and come back to sanity and common sense to get us back to self-governance, away from authoritarian regimes forced on

us foisted on us by the democrats. i gop from authoritarian state, i feel pressure of government on by the state every day. that is the national model democrats are using whether people realize it or not. the leadership does. we have to focus on the issues. impeachment has got to happen. we have to uphold the credibility of the united states when dealing with what joe biden has done to undermine these institutions to enrich himself. larry: the influence peddling too. claudia tenney, thank you very, very much. that was a nice chunk for this show. we appreciate it. >> thank you. larry: superstar claudia tenney. coming up, why consumers are mad even though inflation seems to be falling. we'll be talking about that and interest rates and the government selling too many bonds with kevin hassett, former chair of the council of economic advisors when "kudlow" returns. ♪.

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socialism." kevin, good to see you. it is interesting, they mentioned groceries milk and gasoline. even though the overall inflation rate has come down, blessedly, the fact remains, grocery prices are still up 20%. a gallon of milk, $3.93, still, up a dollar from where it was in august of 2019, four years ago, okay? it is like are you better off now than you were four years ago? gasoline, $3.84 versus $2.63. so you know, this, oh, wait, one more, kevin, i forgot. cars, new cars, the average is 45,516. i guess the old was four years ago 33,000. these price indexes can be very misleading. the stuff people buy is still much, much higher than it was two years ago, four years ago,

what do you think about all of that? >> oh, absolutely. i have really two responses. so the index being mislead something technical thing. i will finish with that because it is less interesting, the way to think about it is just this, as you know you covered a lot on your show we got real incomes for 2022, relative to 2019 they're down four thousand dollars because of inflation, because prices went up but wages didn't keep up and in 2023 of course it is worse. so if i told you, larry i cut your salary four thousand dollars, you say, gees, my salary dropped fourers, you say i will not cut it this year, gee i'm still down $4,000. americans want a politician who says i recognize your down $4,000. here is what i do to get the income growth you need to catch up. instead, you're not down $4,000 and the people are not responds well to it. the technical point is just this, the decline in inflation

is being driven by this weird technical error in the cpi where they basically, the way they account for the cost of health insurance they look at profits of health insurance companies. they made a fortune during covid because they didn't pay for elect tiff things and so on. now their profits have gone down. the cpi for health insurance is down 40% this year. that is having a huge effect looking like inflation is moderating. if you take that out it is not moderating at all. larry: i didn't know that, kevin. that such zoo every interesting. >> i send you an email, it is really stunning. did your health insurance go down 40%? nobody's did. larry: my health insurance never goes down, not once in 50 years i've been paying for that stuff. what would be the cpi be if you took that factor out? would you be growing at four, five, 6%? >> yeah, well, you look the last .1 it turns into a .7. i'm not kidding.

wow, that is so interesting. larry: so the other point -- >> it is a real thing. larry: so speeds besides the expensing, what people actually buy, they mentioned gross -- groceries, milk, gasoline, cars, instead of tooking out food and energy, that is really the core but the other point is interest rates, kevin. what we're seeing a big rise in long-term interest rates. our friend larry lindsay is writing about this at some length and the government is like borrowing half of the funds in the united states crowding out housing and probably about to crowd out business. i mean this is a difficult thing. the treasury is selling all this paper. they're the biggest borrower. all of sudden you're heading toward 5% in the 10-year note and well over 7% in mortgage rates so i don't think people like that very much either. >> right and on the interest rate thing i will get to knit a

second but you said something our friend art laffer taught us a long time ago, there is stuff you got to buy and stuff maybe you're going to buy. i collect comic books, if i comic book prices go up i won't collect comic books if i don't have the money. the price of gas goes up. the price went up for stuff that people got to buy. interest rates have gone up a lot. you're looking at mortgage rates heading towards nine, 10% before the fed is done hiking. that is something else. you're really starting to see it in the data that loans have gone like really, really way down and the other thing that is happening is pause like there is a post-svb shot going on. remember that bank failed. people are pulling their money out of banks too. sew the banks are not lending money. people are not leaving money in the banks because interest rates and bonds are high enough they might as well buy a treasury as opposed to leave it in deposit. there is a lot of financial distress out there. larry: yeah, what you got in sum

you got a lot of unhappy campers. that is what you got. that is what the polls are showing. polls don't vote but it is a snapshot for a lot of unhappy people for all the reasons you mentioned. we'll leave it there. the great kevin hassett. appreciate it very much. >> good to talk to you. larry: coming up, vivek ramaswamy has got a way, he is pro-growth, he is pro-capitalism, novembers how to communicate it so well. that is why he has done so well in the debates. we'll hear from vivek in just a moment. we have mollie hemingway and gregg jarrett. we'll talk legal stuff about these scandals. mark levin is right, don't let up on the impeachment hearings, do not let up. let's not get all tangled up -- kevin mccarthy is doing a fine job as speaker. that is my take. inv "kudlow" will be back the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our clients' portfolios for their long-term goals.

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♪. larry: great pleasure joining us now vivek ramaswamy, 2024

presidential candidate, cofounder of strive asset management. vivek, you are so far in all these debates, all right, you are the best pro-growth, capitalist guy. in fact you're the only one that kind of says it. i keep waiting -- you're all in the ron ron library. reagan fought hard to end soviet communism and restore free market economics and free-market capitalism so you got the reagan spirit. here is what you said wednesday night but it is a reminder. here it comes, vivek. >> what we need to deliver economic growth in this country, unlock american energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear energy, stablize the u.s. dollar itself and rhee sinned a majority of those unconstitutional federal regulations that are hampering our economy. larry: i will be honest with you, nobody says it better than you do. i keep waiting for the others,

they have don't do it. i will ask you a couple questions about regulations in a minute but where did you get that riff? are you a capitalist, vivek? do you believe republicans should be the stewards of prosperity? >> yes i do, and the reason is, larry, i know the american dream exists because i have lived it. my parents came this country with almost no money in a single generation i gone on to found multiple billion dollar companies to help americans. capitalism is the best system known to man to lift all of us from poverty. we need to stop apologizing for it. that goes for both republicans and democrats. that is what american exceptionalism is founded on and i truly believe, larry, economic growth we don't have to give up on that. we used to grow at four plus gdp growth. i think we can again under my presidency, you mark my words we'll be able to achieve that

and more by taking the regulatory state out of picture, unlocking american energy, putting people back to work. that is not hard, bringing tax rates down, something unpopular to talk about these days but we can talk about as a party and a country. larry: let me key to that tax rates down. i was talking to grover norquist and others about this there really wasn't enough attention, we should be, states are slashing tax rates. a lot are going to flat tax. >> yes, they are. larry: a lot are going to zero tax rates, vivek. i think it is up to you, whoever else wants to join but we knead a strong, across the board tax cut message as well. the gop has to take that position because biden, biden is a strong tax hike message, right? >> absolutely. where i'm at, larry, 12% flat tax across the board. capital gain, ordinary income, corporate, estate, it doesn't matter. larry: oh. >> eliminate the crony crap tallist deductions that have

been woven into the system. rebates, all of that out the door. tax compliance costs alone by some estimates are $700 billion plus per year. if you simplify that, that is dead weight regained for the system. larry, i'm also very clear in this campaign, my own reason i haven't highlighted it as much, i mentioned it, i haven't highlighted it, that requires congress. the promise i make to the american people, the problem misses i can keep the u.s. president. shut down federal government, much of it, that is a good thing. 5% reduction in federal bureaucrats. close agencies that shouldn't exist. rescind unconstitutional regulations that fail the supreme court test in west virginia versus epa. that much i can do as commander-in-chief. that is why i focus on that message, larry, those are promises i know i can keep. once i have, it becomes realistic to implement a flat tax in year two. larry: would you, actually, just in the remaining time, you

mentioned shut down the government, you mean change the personnel but -- >> of course. 75% reduction in head count. larry: would you be in favor of government shut down in the funding debate going on in washington? >> so my view that would have been a sloppy fake shutdown. larry: yeah. >> the reality government employees get all their back pay. the government comes back bigger every time. forget the fake, artificial shutdown debate. have a real shutdown the 6 the administrative state, fourth unconstitutional branch that our forefathers would be rolling over in their graves. they will be resting in peace with three branches of government, not four i look at it. larry: i commune with the founding fathers on weekends. >> i would like to join you. larry: talking about the regulatory state, administrative, you have got the biden fcc wanting to put back

net neutrality and you've spot the biden ftc, now they want to close down amazon and they're spending a lot of time chasing after elon musk. so as somebody who talks a lot about stopping the regulatory state what do you think about this net neutrality, close down amazon, let's go after elon musk, what do you think of all of that? >> i mean it is nonsense but even if you just take the net neutrality debate it is another classic deflection. it is a farce, larry, want to know why? talking about broadband providers with at&t and verizon where the real censorship content discrimination taking place is by actual internet companies and social media companies like google, youtube, facebook and so on. it is a classic bait and switch, the internet providers, yet the people cheering for it along with the biden administration

are the ones responsible for viewpoint discrimination. i wish larry, they trick republicans, many republicans miss this, fall for the trick. that is why i'm in the race. i hope we will be successful we have to pierce through the nonsense of the other side. larry: well-done. keep plugging, keep plugging vivek ramaswamy, keep it there until the next time. we'll switch gears real fast. bring in mollie hemingway, editor-in-chief of "the federalist," fox news contributor, gregg jarrett, fox news legal analyst and author of the "trial of the century." mollie, you have to help me on this, i'm not a lawyer but governor gavin newsom is appointing la phones is a butler to replace die an -- dianne feinstein as senator. she is a resident of maryland, a registered voter in maryland,

she has to according to law, a resident of the state and voter in the state. am i missing something? >> look likes this woman yesterday registered to vote in california. larry: oh. >> you are correct she is registered in maryland, voighting in maryland, to comply with the law, register to vote, i think she holds property in california. one of problem with california's voting laws, they are so lax, they have send out ballots to every address, every person who registered to vote. they have a real problem with election integrity in that state. looks like she has done what she needs to do to allow this. larry: did she change her resident registration? >> like i said, i think she has property in california. remember when hillary clinton ran for senate from new york a state she never lived in. a lot of people understand the senate is a place to make a lot of money as dianne feinstein did and not necessarily a place to represent your state's

interests. larry: gregg jarrett what are the qualifications for president now that we cleared up the senate? who knows who can run. democrat, democrats pull this stuff time and time again. i never hear republicans doing that. maybe republicans do it. i never hear about that. does this make gavin newsom look goofy? >> it absolutely does. in her own bio butler says she is a resident of maryland. oh, gee, that was just scrapped overnight. just yesterday she reregistered in the state of california. the problem is qualifications is set out in the constitution and it says you have to be an inhabitant of the state from which you're chosen but it doesn't define what that means or how long it is. so as mollie pointed out, she does own property in california. she has lived there previous live. so she will probably sky by. larry: if you pitched a tent on the beach in california and

slept there for a couple weeks -- >> everybody does. larry: that is what they do, would that qualify for the senate? probably would. >> yeah, probably. just go to venice beach. everybody lives in a tent. larry: sorry, mollie, go ahead, please. >> gavin newsom said before the selection that he would pick someone based on their sex and race and nobody seemed to have a super problem with how that does not seem the best criteria in which to choose a senator from the great state. he had the trifecta, the candidate is black, female and lesbian. the democrat party leans into identity politics, even while a lot of criticisms of democrat policies. people are frustrated with democrat policies what is happening on the border what is happening with crime, what is happening with the economy. rather than respond to some criticisms by focusing on substance, gavin newsom chose someone with a political activist with no electoral track record. she never had to stand before the voters of california or any

other state just proceeding. larry: mollie, i was always confused, maybe this would change, one of newsom's qualifications whoever he appointed would not run for the permanent seat which would be next november. are they sticking to that? they will let her live under a tent. will they stick to this other qualification or no? >> people close to the new senator said she was not told she could not run. they also note that she has close ties with law firms associated with adam schiff. this is the man who made up the lie personally seen evidence that the 2016 election was stole renn by treasonous collusion with russia. he faced no repercussions with that lie that caused so much damage. he wants the senate seat. he has close ties to the new candidate or senator. does that mean she understands she will only be there a short period of time or she is the one. larry: terrific stuff. both of you terrific stuff. i have will pitch a tent.

i don't like to live in a tent. i have a lovely apartment in new york city. mollie hemingway, gregg jarrett, appreciate it so much. folks, coming up, interest rates are going up, stocks going down. is this the new normal? how bad will the market selloff going to be? we'll ask pete najarian and. we'll talk about the market.

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ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. ♪. larry: so, i'm kind of worried, we got a new normal in the stock market with interest interest rate going up and bonds going down. september that just ended was the worst month of year. we have pete najarian, market rebellion, iurio, tjm institutional services. interest rates may be headed for 5%. they're up 12 basis points today, from what i could gather, closing at 4.70. this is not good for stocks, i think you would agree. where are we going on this, pete? >> seems like we're going higher, larry. until we see any reason we will not go higher we are. a lot of things, rates themselves they are connected

with those algorithms and they are walking in lockstep right now particularly with the sell side and you're seeing it right in front of us. whether you want to look over at different parts of the market you can see exactly where it is happening. utilities is a great example. look at where they were in august, where they are now. it has been an ance absolute run, by the time we got the 10 year over 4%, in august it has been sticky, it is stuck there and we continue to see some of that selling. including today, utilities getting absolutely hammered. larry: jim iurio, interesting, energy is getting hammered. force sill fuels are getting hammered. i notice the rig count is coming down. even though oil prices are high, whether they get to 100 or not we'll see, but what is your take on this interest rates up, stocks down scenario? >> so pete mentioned utilities and normally utilities are very rate sensitive. when rates go up this fast everything is rate sensitive including energy, however,

energy is the only market in my opinion that is not completely tied to the rates like everything else is. i think that move in oil as we talked about a week ago on your show i think was a little bit overdone. i think it heads back down to 80. markets move like a pendulum, too far in each direction to a price fundamentals don't support. that is happening in 10 years too. you have to ask yourself, does the market all of a sudden believe the fed higher for longer? maybe. will it be higher forelonger? i don't believe that is the truth. or could it be hot money threw in the towel we have to chase this break in the bonds and they're pounding it into the ground? i think perhaps we're beyond where we should be. i don't think we'll turn around tomorrow but that seems to affect everything else. larry: pete, you know what could be higher for longer? inflation. >> yeah. larry: kevin hassett was on. he said a lot of the cpi decline comes from falling health care insurance. you can't rely on that but what people, people buying gasoline,

people buying milk, people buying groceries, all that stuff is going up. so inflation could be higher for longer, pete? >> i absolutely would agree with you. as a matter of fact that's one thing i would put back with a little bit with jim, i still think we'll see oil in the triple digits again. i don't think it is that far away. now we got a big pullback here. we were at 94. now we're here at 89. i look at this every day, i follow what is going on with opec and russians as well, what is opec saying do they want any changes at all? probably not. i think they're satisfied. if they see it slip too much they middle east cut again. it is a matter of what they decide to do with those barrels and if another million barrels will be cut, they were i think we're going to definitely see something north of 100. larry: very important to push back on jim iurio as a generic matter. terribly important thing to do.

>> i feel the same way. >> i believe crude is going to 100. i believe it is a short-term pull back. i think saudis and russia will tighten the screws on us when the time is right. i think they did a little bit already. larry: did you see that piece in the paper today, the energy department, or somebody in the administration won't let anybody go to a conference or at a conference that has fossil fuel participants? it is like they will be contaminated by fossil fuel participant. this is why it is hard to figure you're not going to go higher with oil prices because you're not allowed to pursue anything. 15 seconds, jim iurio, buying stocks or selling them, one word, buying or selling. >> not buying them yet. larry: pete najarian not buying them yet. >> i think he is right. start selling them even more. larry: start selling them even more. that is najarian and iurio. i'm "kudlow."is

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kudlow: you know republicans speak outcome of this is not just about come properties, this is about the constitution and about free market capitalism but it should speak out, against hir the trump businesses, this is crazy, and now, it is left to this mcdonald coming to save us all. liz yes i'll try larry, hit is good to see you again my friend and okay, listing on the story, former preside t