tv Barrons Roundtable FOX Business October 22, 2023 9:30am-10:00am EDT
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technology names, google and microsoft if reporting on tuesday. meta will report on wednesday and amazon on thursday. these may very well set the tone for the whole market. ford and general motors also reporting next week. it'll be a telling look at how the the uaw strike has affected the auto makers' bottom line over a month into the work stoppage. we'll be polling it on "mornings with america -- mornings with maria," weekdays, 6-9 a.m. eastern on fox business. join me for "sunday morning futures" live with interviews with ted cruz, john ratcliffe and attorneys general ken packton from texas and greta that burg from iowa. join us live on sunday. that'll do it for us on fox business.
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where we get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead. i'm carleton english in for jack otter. coming up, israel is preparing for a ground invasion of gaza as the war enters week two. global market strategist brian levitt will look at how escalation fears are impacting stocks and energy prices. then, a big week for big tech is on the way. netflick kicked off earnings this week with a bang on strong subscriber growth, but there's a lot more to come. and one tech giant faces trouble from china and later, we'll give investors an inside look on the stealth play for electric vehicle stocks. but we begin, as always with three things. investors ought to be thinking about right now. stocks sank this week as investors are keeping a close watch on growing middle east tensions. then, elon musk is having some regrets about tesla's highly anticipated cybertruck and the ev makers. third quarter earnings were a
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big disappointment and a warning for investors about following the smart money when it comes to their investments on the barron's roundtable, my colleagues ben levison, andrew barry and jacob sonenshine. all right, so ben, another cloudy friday, another cloudy weekend, and that also played out in the markets. why were markets down again this week? well this week's loss was brought to you by the number five. that's 5% on the ten year treasury yield. treasury yields have just been going up and up and up. and as it does, it's impacts all kinds of things. it impacts the way people value stocks. it makes people just say, hey, i don't need to put money into stocks. i can just buy bonds. and that has hurt stocks, particularly those that have exposure to yields in different ways. big tech stocks, because they have profits out in the future. those get knocked down the valuations. so those stocks fell hard, utilities fell hard, solar stocks like solaredge and enphase, they got smacked partially because they have no profits. they're building out these businesses and it's getting more expensive to do that. so it was a terrible week
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for the market, partially because of the middle east overhang, but really it's these yields that keep going up. so it seems that the fed may be near the end of interest rate hikes. you know, we're just kind of getting used to this higher for longer. so what is driving this move in bond yield prices? well, i think that's exactly it. everybody, all the fed speakers we had this week came out. they sounded dovish. they sounded like rates had gone high enough. powell, when he spoke on thursday, echoed that. but he also said that, look, these rates need to remain higher. they need there's more work to be done on inflation and growth needs to slow. and that really just keeps sending the yields higher and higher. and it's, you know, basically it's going to be okay as long as the economy can withstand it. but it's going to be up to the economy to show that it can keep going with yields as high. so what are you going to be looking at next week? we are getting a bit of economic news as well. we're getting our first reading on gdp for the third quarter. economists expect it to be around 3.3. there's something called the atlanta fed gdp. now which is a model and it saying 5.4. both would be great
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numbers. the problem is they're backward looking and we're going to be watching earnings, ge, gm, caterpillar, big tech. we want to see what they say, not only about this quarter, but what's coming. gotcha all right, jacob, i want to turn over to tesla, one of the more volatile stocks, and also had a pretty tough report this week. break it down for us. down about double digit, well down double digits since earnings. and you did have an analyst wedbush securities, dan ives saying many disaster on the quarter. so what really went wrong? a little over $23 billion in sales for the quarter up only 8% year over year. they missed estimates. one of the big issues was pricing was actually down year over year. and when elon musk ceo was asked about it on the earnings call, he just said higher interest rates, weak consumer. the issue is that was that investors, investors were kind of saying what's really the issue there? and then you had research and development spend additional billions of dollars on that related to the cybertruck. all right. so tell us more about the cybertruck, because, you know, when pictures came out, people weren't excited about it. and it doesn't seem like wall
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street is excited about it either. well the issue is that and tesla was very clear about this on the earnings call, ramping up capacity and production for that cybertruck is going to take a while. so margins are going to remain hit as they invest in that. and the sales are not going to flow through for a while. so is there any bull case on tesla? there is absolutely a bull case on tesla. so when musk says higher interest rates, higher interest rates, weak, weak consumer, when musk talks about that, well, if all autos are getting hit by that and tesla's getting hit by it to some degree, then maybe that 8% growth in a couple of years in a year might be like double digits. and if that's the case, then tesla's not really getting crushed by competition. and that is going to be something that the bulls hang their hats on. gotcha. all right. so, andrew, we have the average investor daily being told to go into alternative investments, but you are actually getting evidence that maybe they shouldn't do that. why? well, no group of investors has embraced alternatives more than university endowments. at harvard, for instance, they have about 70% of their
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investments in alts and only about 10% in regular stocks. returns have been mediocre. harvard just reported its results for the latest fiscal year ended in june. so did yale, up about 2% versus about 20% for the s&p 500. way behind a mix of stocks and bonds as well. and it seems when you're in alternatives, you're also paying for that underperform. you're paying for it. you know, the it's being pushed by advisors is kind of like you're getting into a taylor swift concert. i would not get behind the velvet rope. i'd be very cautious about that. fees are high and returns have been mediocre. i think it's going to be a very crowded market. warren buffett says keep it simple. stocks and bonds and mix the stocks and bonds over the next five years. i think could easily beat an alt heavy portfolio. and what's the stock and bond mix that you're looking at? what's the ratio? well you can do 60 over 40 or 70 over 30. i mean, basic 60% stocks, 40% bonds. and we're even higher depending on your risk tolerance. all right. so 60 over 40 apparently not dead. thanks for that, guys. fears of escalation in the middle east have us markets on edge.
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investing expert brian levitt will tell us what it means for stocks and energy prices. plus, how can investors keep their money safe? stay right there. after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels. [ applause ] the day you get your clearchoice dental implants changes your struggle with missing teeth forever. it changes how you eat,
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the devastating war in the middle east entering its second week as israeli forces prepare for a ground operation in gaza. this as rising tensions with hezbollah at the israel-lebanon border are ramping up concerns that the conflict will expand. and us markets are closely watching all of this play out. joining me now is invesco global market strategist brian levitt. brian, thank you so much for joining us. thank you so starting with the middle east, you know, we're not seeing much of a reaction in us markets, even in oil prices. why is that? and what's going
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to cause that to change? you know, the markets have become accustomed item over time to not paying significant attention to regional events. i mean, you typically have to ask yourself, does this event change the trajectory of the us economy and does this change what the federal reserve is going to do in both instances right now, the answers appear to be largely no, unless you see a wider confrontation emerge, a sustained rise in energy prices. but for now, i believe the answer to those questions are being answered as no and just want to turn attention to washington now. we are seeing maybe a little bit of chaos on the who's going to be the next speaker of the house. again, the market does seem to be ignoring that right now. but is there a point where the market will be paying more attention? yeah i mean, again, it's something that the market has grown accustomed to. so conflict in the middle east, some dysfunction in washington, dc. we've seen these things before. now congress needs to have an appropriations bill and we need to keep the government open by november 17th. congress was supposed to be in recess
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over the next couple of weeks. so the market is not paying attention right now. ultimately congress tends to act when there's a need to act. goes back to that churchill line about americans doing the right thing, but only after exhausting all other options. so i believe we'll get there and we will be able to spend what needs to be spent and keep the government open. okay so we talked a little bit about some of the things that the market and economy are maybe ignoring or just not focusing on so much. but what are some of the economic indicators that matter most now? well, the big news has been how strong retail sales was in the latest reading and the jobless claims number, which continue to be strong. so it's pointing to the us consumer resilient and the job market very strong. and typically investors would say, why isn't that a good thing? usually good news is good news, but the market right now is treating good news as a little bit of bad news because inflation is still above 3. you would need inflation probably
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closer to two and one half percent in order for good news to be good news. so when you get this good news interest rates go up and equity valuations have been adjusting as a result of that. yeah, it's always tough to know that. okay, when do we want good news to be good news and bad news to be bad news and all of that? but tell us, what does that mean for the path that the fed is on now? we did have a speech from jerome powell on thursday. just curious what your take was on that and what you see the fed doing going forward. yeah, i mean, the fed basically told us that their data dependent, which is interesting because as fed policy operates with a lag, but they're going to be data dependent. so we'll see what that means. the market expects the fed is done. if you look at the fed funds futures market, the market believes that the federal reserve has increased rates for the last time and actually believes that interest rates will be four and three quarters a year from now, which means an easing cycle will start. i'm a little bit less concerned what they do in the next one and more concerned than what they do in the series of meetings after that. i think
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we're at or near the end of policy tightening. and typically the end of policy tightening creates a better backdrop for risk assets. so just curious if we are at the end or near a policy tightening , was the fed able to do a soft landing? are we going to see a recession? well, we don't know yet. i think it's probably too over confident to think we can get through this without some form of economic downturn. now, the good news is for investors is we priced it last year we were down 25, which is very much in line with an average return during a more mild recession. typically what you see, i think investors, voters have forgotten that we can have mild recessions because 2020, 0801 were so disastrous, you can have more mild downturns where the market falls 2,025% and you're back at the new high within a year or two. those are years like 1991, 1981. so that's how i would view this. we're trying to navigate some weakness in the economy. the federal reserve can pivot if
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you get to a place where you have already seen peak inflation, peak tightening, maybe here peak rates, it's usually that's a good backdrop for equities and for credit over the subsequent years. so real quick, you say it's a good backdrop. how would you position in i would be positioned to think about what a new market cycle would look like. i think the way investors are positioned right now, you have a lot in money markets and cash, which are yielding five and one half percent, which feels nice and actually a lot of money in growth tech stocks just because of how the markets have played out over the last year. so i would say lock in some of those yields don't just like it for 30 days, move into corporates or municipal bonds so you can lock in some of those yields. and on the on the equity side, do diversify into more cyclicals, value smaller, smaller capitalization stocks. all right. well, around the world with brian levitt, thank you so much. thank you. big tech on deck. netflix kicked off third quarter earnings in spectacular fashion. and more of the biggest names are on tap for this week. our expert panel
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goli, taste your goals. shares of netflix surging on strong third quarter earnings release thursday. this upcoming week, more big tech names including alphabet, amazon and meta and microsoft are on tap to report. meanwhile another tech giant took a hit as the biden administration slapped more restrictions on chip exports to china. barron's deputy editor alex juul joins the panel. all right. so alex, let's start with the news from netflix. we saw some subscriber growth. is this a one time story on, you know, them being successful in cracking down on password sharing or is there more to it? you know, i do think this was a really monumental report for netflix and potentially a longer term
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turning point. i think the key to step back and think about is that the company isn't standing on ceremony and that's allowed them to make some really important moves, starting with advertising, which they were initially completely against it and now telling people that they can't share passwords across various family family accounts. both of those things are having a really big impact. right. it's working, as you said. they added 9 million subscribers in the latest quarter. that is a huge number. it's the most they've done since early in the pandemic and a real rebound for them in terms of the password crackdown , it turns out that users are willing to pay for something if they feel like they're getting good content. and that's been the case with netflix through it all. netflix clearly feels good about all this because they're also raising prices so you're getting a lot of things happening here and it tells you that they're operating from a real position of strength. so disney has enough problems of its own, but does this put pressure on disney's streaming service? what's the implication there? i think we're going to learn a lot in three weeks about disney, but also about streaming more broadly and whether this is really a streaming renaissance or just netflix executing well. and so
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when netflix, when disney reports in november, the analysts are expecting them to report roughly two and one half million new streaming subscribers across all of its various brands. that's a far cry from netflix's latest quarterly numbers. so if they get anywhere close, i think it's going to tell us probably a lot about streaming overall, that maybe streaming has started to come back from its, you know, post covid lull. so let's talk about this coming week. most of big tech is going to be reporting earnings. what are you going to be watching? all right. so let's be honest. the real action in technology this entire year has been ai, right? so i still think that the ai theme is the one that across the board, across all these names, you have to be paying attention to. that's really what's been moving the stocks, ironically and as we'll hear during earnings, it's not what's moving the fundamentals. the ai results are still not in sales. they're still not in the bottom line. and so i do think there's a little bit of a risk that if you don't hear enough about ai and that management teams don't do enough to keep
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the ai hype cycle going, you could see a little bit of a sell off. i do. so i think it's going to be really important to just watch how how management teams talk about ai. alex outside of ai, what are the other factors you're going to be looking at on earnings? all right. so look, the probably the most important fundamental thing going on is still in the cloud for several quarters now. we've seen this slowdown in excitement. we had growth for years of 50% quarterly in cloud sales. now it's down to like 15. there are some signs that maybe that's bottomed and it's starting to pick up again. that will have a huge impact on amazon if it's happening and a big impact on microsoft and a decent sized impact on on alphabet as well. i also will be interested in seeing what's happening with e! commerce. i think this is similar to streaming perhaps where you're getting out of that post-pandemic lull and you're starting to see some return to e commerce again and return to growth that could be really good news for amazon. and then look for google, for alphabet and meta platforms. we'll be we'll be looking at the advertising environment. so what about apple? that's stock
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it's going to report a little bit later. but it's been down for six straight days. what's going on. yeah. so that that stock doesn't report next week. they report the week after i will note they are down you know, they're down about in line with the nasdaq. so it's been a tough time as yields have headed higher for most of these guys. i think apple is in a bit of one of these innovation lulls, perception of innovation lulls that they go through every few years at the end of the day, they're still all about the iphone, 50% of sales and people aren't seeing a whole lot of excitement there. i mean, there's really not that much you can do with an iphone every year now. and so that's potentially worrisome. their sales are flatlining right now. and i think but i think these have proven to be buying opportunities in recent in recent years, when you've had those flat growth years. i disagree. i think apple is overpriced at these levels. there's no growth trading for about 30 times earnings right now at least alphabet and the amazon are growing. apple is not. there's also a big risk in china where they get about 20% of their sales. tim cook's been over there. he's clearly
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worried and they're nowhere in i so far. look i think those are all fair points. andrew i would say to look at the historical chart, you would say maybe that doesn't mean much because it's all about the forward look ing results. but i take your point. yeah. i mean, what about nvidia, which came under pressure this week on the biden administration curbs on tech sales to china. the stock has had a huge run, big valuation. what do you think of the stock and the outlook. yeah. i have to tell you, i was a little bit surprised by how hard nvidia got hit this week by news that the biden administration was clamping down on this other chip that they've been selling to china because this has been leaked for weeks now. i don't think anyone really should have been too surprised by what happened. ultimately near term, even medium term for nvidia, this doesn't really matter. they're already selling more chips than they can produce. all right. well, thank you so much, alex. a lot to unpack there. and you guys have some stock picks and we'll give you the stealth play on ev stocks. stay right there. j.p. morgan wealth management knows it's easy
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all right. so, ben, we know you are an auto enthusiast, frequent driver. tell us what you love about bmw. yeah, nobody should talk to me about cars. but with tesla bombing this week, barron's has a new favorite ev stock. it's bmw, bmw, all the german car companies really looked like they had missed the boat on evs . but it turns out bmw has done a great job. it shipped more cars, more evs in the third quarter than rivian ford and gm combined. and it's been successful by really just making electric versions of the cars that people already like. so if you like their sedans, there's an electric version. you like their sports car, there's an electric version. r al route took their suv for a spin. he says it's just like driving a regular a regular bmw suv, except it goes a heck of a lot faster. okay, so how does
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bmw stack up against its competitors on valuation? well, like a lot of the ev stocks, it is dirt cheap. it trades about 5.5 times 12 month forward earnings. that's very similar to the others. it also has a lot of cash on the balance sheet, which makes it look cheaper about four times. but the best thing about it is that it actually has 15% of its total. sales are battery electric vehicles, which is more than volkswagen. it's more than gm, it's more than ford. and that means that it actually has a it's guaranteeing itself a future in a world that may or may not be ev, but that means that investors can then look at bmw and say, hey, i like the fundamentals and not worry about whether it's going to be around or not. all right. well, thank you so let's turn to some actionable ideas. andrew, you were saying with the smart money was doing wrong, but i'm curious about this idea that you have now. well, i say by blackrock, i mean there's a lot of controversy about larry fink's woke views on investments, but he's actually built a very good business. it's the biggest asset manager in the world and a very good outlook. the biggest player in etfs right now. and the stock is pretty inexpensive, around
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17 times forward earnings, 3% dividend yield. all right. and jacob, real quick, what's your stock pick? mcdonald's. it's down. it was down as much as 13% since the middle of september when the ozempic news really hit and really made people afraid of people's appetites for unhealthy foods like mcdonald's. if you look at $2,728 billion of annual sales, probably north of a billion purchases made a year and the fact that the people the number of people are going to use ozempic next year is not even going to be 20 million. even though it's growing. that doesn't hold a candle to the size of mcdonald's. all right. interesting pick. and not just because you brought french fries for us today. thank you, guys. thank you, andrew, jacob, ben, great ideas. to read more, check out this week's edition at barrons.com. and don't forget to follow us on x, formerly known as twitter at barron's online. that's all for us. see you next week on barron's roundtable ♪ >> from the fox studios in new york city, this is maria
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