them, and that impacts not just american families, but our overall economy. charles: nomi, in your book, permanent distortions, you've written about all of this stuff. the divide between financial markets, the real economy, the free market starting to vanish, this new world order coming in maybe responsible for some of the geopolitical stuff we see around the world, is there any way to stop it? it feels like we can't stop this collision. >> well, that's what i call a permanent -- [laughter] disportion -- distortion the, because what was the printing of money to what now is a major geopolitical sort of expansion from that is not really stoppable. the fed can get out of the equation for now. this pause -- the not that this pause is a forever pause, but right now that distortion the between the real assets, the real market and the cost of money and financial markets is going to increase. charles: oh, boy. great stuff. it's a tough message, but we need to hear it. also, folks, here's liz claman.

liz: yeah. we are just 20 points off the high of the session for the dow, very big rally here. charles, i do want to just start with some breaking news, the jury in the crypto fraud trial of sam bankman bankman-fried is getting instructions from judge. lou:s kaplan right now. after he is done, the jury will begin deliberations. the judge has ordered the jury to stay tonight until at least 8:15 p.m. eastern which means a verdict could come sometime before then. coming up, fameed defense attorney robert shapiro is here live to the talk about the odds of the one-time crypto billionaire and whether he can escape a guilty verdict or whether the evidence is just too overwhelming. let us right now get to the markets. it's a post-fed apparently -- party. the major indices are all enjoying quite a boost by the bulls. the dow right now is adding 0 --

504 points. yesterday it gains 221 points after fed chief jay powell and company not only declined to raise interest rates at its policy meeting, but conceded that the while inflation is still tattoo high, the economy -- too high, the economy has not seen the full effects of the previous 11 rate hikes. >> it takes time, we know that, and you condition rush it. slowing down is giving us, i think the, a better sense of how much more we need to do if we need to do the more. liz: dow and s&p are enjoying their fourth day in a row of gains. right now we've got the s&p climbing higher by 74 points. the broader index looking at a nearly 5% jump week to date, but it is the nasdaq bulls who have now shown up five days in a row. the tech-heavy index is popping 223 points or 1.7%. this will mark the longest win streak since august 31st.

all you need to see is even a 1-point -- not even, i mean, any begin is going to do it. you can thank qualcomm for a big chunk, giving a current-quarter forecast during its earnings last night. optimism also coming after the world's largest chip maker for smartphones said the 2-year slump in handsents appears to be bottoming -- handsets appears to be the bottoming. they're still worried about when it will truly bottom. the broader market getting a serious lift from falling bond yields right now. 10-year, which got as high as 4.93% earlier in the week and, by the way, topped 5% on monday of last week, has now plunged to 4.668%. every sickle s&p -- single s&p sector are barreling higher with real estate, energy, consumer discretionary, utilities and financials leading. but if one success has the power to shift all of that, it could

be apple which reports quarterly numbers after the bell today. shares have had a really solid week, gaining about 5%, but missed on the aspect -- any miss, rather, on an expected $43.8 billion in iphone sales or a miss in services which is apple's second biggest revenue driver could trigger a spiral in big tech. until then, apple is up about 2. the story right now is spiking stocks while bond yield withs drop. particularly, the longer dated 10-year and 30-year treasury deals. what's going on? joining me now is rick reider, cio of global fixed income for blackrock. the fed if rate hike cycle had the 10- year pumping higher up until yesterday. what's going on with the longer end of the yield curve? all of it is moving lower except for the 2-year. >> a couple things. first of all, if you go back to what jay powell said, there were

a couple things that were significant. he said inflation risks are two-sided now. he's been pretty consistent about they need to move more, the risks of not moving more, more dangerous than otherwise. he said it was two-sided. he said that things like housing at an 8% mortgage rate, he said some things that he's noticed, recognizing inflation is coming down and there's a momentum to that and maybe they can sit back, there's a lag effect to it. so you're getting people who are saying, you know what? it's safer to the come back into the bond market because it's been in this period of loss after loss after loss, so people willing the take is some risk. i would also say an incredible short-covering dynamic in the equity and bond markets. everybody was hiding in the short end of the yield curve and now saying, you know what? and short the longer end and was benefiting from it, and now you're getting some of -- liz: so peopleing so the price, of course, goes up and the yield

comes down except, as i said, everything in the curve except for the 2-year at this hour is down. where do you see the 10-year yield peaking? is there a temporary blip and then it moves up? >> listen, i don't think it's going very far. could it trend higher again? it definitely could. we get a payroll report in less than 24 hours, the jobs data continues to be solid. look at earlier this week, jolts data showed more job openings for places like leisure, has hospitality, finance. it's going to be a big day tomorrow -- liz: okay, the the expect expectation is 180,000. what is your sense? >> employment is still solid, and you're saying you still have a structural unemployment dynamic many in places like leisure, hospitality, health care, education. we still think the number will be about that, not to vary that far. the next few months you're going to start to see that number trend down. we've been operating 250-260,000 jobs on an average basis. my sense is that number's coming

down. it's part of why the markets are comfortable, the fed can wait for a while. if. liz: what is your favorite part of the yield curve right now? because the 30-year was, until today, i think, or late yesterday bo 5%. >> -- above 5%. >> for me, i don't see any reason to own a 30-year treasury. there's shock sort covering today, and the view is why do i need it? it's less yield, it's more volatile than the stock the market. think about that, what does that do for my portfolio when i'm not getting as much -- liz: and you've got to wait # 30 years. >> and you've got to wait to get your minnesota ever -- money back. i much prefer the short end -- liz: how short? >> out the 5-year now. carry well in fixed income. for the first time, we like going a bit further out, but you get most of your yield, or all of your yield going out to the 5-year -- liz: what about the t-bills? 6-month is well above 5%.

>> they're still awesome. treasury's going to issue 400 billion of them a week. the numbers are staggering. if you don't like them at today's level, we're going to get more the next week, but at 5.5%, 5.60, they should be part of your portfolio. liz: earlier, i think two appearances ago here on the show, you guys unveiled the imc which is an ishares etf that is high yield, it's it's all kinds of bonds. it has actually, since its inception, outperformed the other benchmarks out there. what is in it now? you're finally revealing the aloe e case. >> yeah. well, no, i mean, it's transparent. people can look into it -- liz: yeah, but you hadn't done it when you first come on. >> we buy some high yield bonds and quality assets, investment grade credit in the places like europe. we yield 7.5%. it's 90% of the yield of things like the high yield market, and it's got half the volatility. the reason why, including today,

money's been coming into it if you can get that sort of yield, about 7.5 -- liz: 18.7% of it is in high yield. >> so we have some -- yeah, by the way with, u.s. and european high yield. liz yeah. >> and then we have got a lot of high quality investment grade credit, agency mortgages and we diversify it. we're tactical, but part of what you were saying, i think we're 500 ahead of the index since we launched it. but the volatility, i don't have a chart on it, but it's much more stable, and that's why people have been investing in it. liz: is the fed done? >> i think, you know, you can't write off december at 25, i think for all intents and purposes, you should assume the fed's done. could they get, if you get a payroll report that's tomorrow, cpi getting strong, do they know another -- three another 25 -- throw another 25 in it, i think it makes no sense. there's a lag effect to it.

you're impacting small business, small regional banks, real estate, and quite frankly -- liz: that's not his job to look at that. it's his job to bring inflation down which is crushing the american citizen out there. >> so i agree, i totally agree with that. if moving another 25 the, 50 basis points would actually bring with inflation down, particularly if it didn't hurt employment, i'd be all for it. think about the millions of jobs you potentially lose to try and get another 25 basis points off of inflation. wages, particularly for lower income, have been moving up quite nicely. as long as that's happening, you're seeing people enter the work force, you should nurture that, continue that. liz: employment cost index earlier this week went up, prices paid index still also up, and the ism latest number, both of those are inflationary, obviously. i guess we'll get more information tomorrow about wages, but can i ask the bond guy about stocks? >> yes, ma'am. liz okay. >> if you build a portfolio

today, nice thing talking about bank, if you can build a lot of income in your portfolio and you're not taking a lot of risk, if you could run 6 -- and, by the way, buy a lot of t-bills -- the equity market's going to do its things. companies are still throwing off 8, 10, 12% on equity. multiples for a few stocks are high, but if you strip those out, the multiples are not bad. people talk about 60-40, i still think the 60% equities, you hold it, and then you take your bonds and say i want with a lot of income. i don't need to have a lot of risk, i don't need to have a lot of risky bonds, i just have a lot of income -- liz: you're back to 60-40. >> no, i'm at 60, definitely, but instead of the 40, take maybe 30%, buy really high quality bonds. 10%, depending on the type of investor you are -- liz: a little race item are -- riskier. about a year ago, you made a really great call on the show

calling the bond market nirvana. say -- today you're saying the short end is still awesome. >> yeah. i've been doing this too many years. i've never seen an opportunity to buy yield without taking a risk. the t-bill for 10 years, the average yield is 0.38%. the if you want income, it's thh where's inflation, we are rend are thing down. it's still, service inflation's still a bit elevate ised, we're say we're trending down to 3 and just under 3, you can buy bills at 5.5? that is nirvana. liz: there it is right on your screen, guys. 6-month, 5.536%. great to see you. >> good to be here. liz: blackrock's rick reed or. the famed after lack duck now so popular, it's rubbing feathers with dionne sanders and nick saban. but do you know where the bulk

of the bulk of the success really lies? ceo dan amos is here now on the pretty outsized gains that aflac has shown. how are they doing it? you will be stunned to see how the stock has performed since dan became ceo. that's us saying it. he's not tooting his own horn, but we're getting the latest e earnings deals and the look ahead, certainly, from dan. the dow near session highs, up 512 pointses. "the claman countdown" is coming right back. ♪ (vo) while you may not be a pediatric surgeon volunteering your topiary talents at a children's hospital — your life is just as unique. your raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your passions, and the way you give back. so you can live your life.

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liz: market rally but not so much for moderna. investors are pulling the plug on the stock, falling to a

3-year low of $70.32, down 7.7% after the vaccine maker posted a third quarter loss due to the a large write-down in unused covid-19 vaccine doses. demand for its new iteration of the vaccine continues to fall. moderna also said it's going to scale back production, and they gave weak sales guidance for next year. which leads us to ask this: how coinsurance companies look with, hopefully, the worst of covid behind us? top supplemental insurance providers, they sell coverage to supplement buyers' primary health insurance coverage, allstate and metlife have punched up, but aflac shares have flown high above the competition, coming in with a gain of 130% since the lockdowns in 2020. joining me now live from the aflac headquarters in columbus georgia, is ceo dan amos. that's quite a gap, if you will, between you and your closest competitor.

what is it? are your rates better? why is there sort of a gap, well, let's just use that word, between you and the president competition? >> well, i would say i think our operations are running very effectively. i think our policies are products that people want and need. and what we tried to do is adapt to health care changes. i'll give you an example. the number of days in the hospital continues to drop, and so if you've got indemnity policies that just pay you every day you're in the hospital, you're not going to get as many benefits. so we've changed to do outpatient treatments and things of that nature which make a big difference. all of the things are, like, wellness benefits. we encourage people to go to the there doctor, and for that,s we help pay to cover that.

so these are things that makes a difference. and then there's been a real swing in we're seeing from cancer experts that are saying we're seeing more cancer to the younger age. for example, with mammograms. they used to say get one by age 50 and then start every year after that. now they've moved it to 40. and so all of these things tie together to, i think ultimately, make sales stronger for us. and we've seen that our sales are up about 12.5% in japan and about 7% in the u.s. liz: yeah. japan is 75% of your business. and has always been a big driver there. but it's also you with, dan. we're showing on the screen that since you became ceo back in 1990, the stock is up 6794%. that -- i'm just pointing that

out. i think it's always not just the horse, but the jockey when it comes to picking stocks. you've got to figure out who's the management. so props to you about that. but let me now push you a little bit, okay? so i started being nice, and now i'm going to be -- >> yes, you did. liz: and that is that the cost curve is not being bent. people still can't afford insurance, hay still need to buo buy more from people like you. and, you know, my dad who was a surgeon yoused to say, liz, you look at these guys in their gleaming sky creper -- skyscrapers but people are breaking their pills in half because they can't afford it. what is the solution in bringing health insurance costs down? >> well, one of the ways that they tried to bring health costs down so the hire, add higher co-pays and deductibles. can and those higher co-pays and deductibles do make people take a look at whether or not they

really need to go to the doctor or not go to the doctor. but we want to make sure that we've got coverage available for the people that really do need to go to the doctor. but if you've got unlimited times you can go and you have no expense whatsoever, then everybody just shows up one time after another. so it's a delicate balance between how you do this and the way that you're able to the carry it off. you know, our products are bought for people predominantly at the workplace. it's almost all of our people are or working. -- are working. ask and so they can afford it in many cases better thanker say, other situations -- better than, say, other situations. we're very careful in the way that we approach the customers that need to own our type products. but the good news is it continues, as those deducts bls

and co-pays go up, people want the fill those voids, and we fill the gap by doing that. liz: dan, please come back. thank you very much. i really appreciate it. good to see you. >> thank you. liz: dan amos of aflac. we're getting this breaking news, jury deliberations have just new begun in the sam bankman-fried fraud trial. judge kaplan will hold jurors this 8:15 p.m. tonight. if the verdict is not reached by hen the, they will then return to deliberate on monday. so nothing tomorrow. apparently, they're going to order in pizza a tonight, and that's his decision, the judge's to decision. of course, sam bankman-fried, the one-time crypto billionaire, watched his ftx exchange implode, go belly up with a lot of money missing, and it has been a month-long trial. so coming up, famed attorney robert shapiro is here to talk about the trial, the charges of fraud and money laundering that he's facing, possible sentence if found guilty and was it a

mistake to put him on the stand. robert shapiro coming up. all right, the israeli military says its troops have now pushed through gaza city outskirts and are now fighting, quote, face to face battles with hamas. mike tobin is on the ground in israel. we're going to go to him live next. and u.s. media companies streaming a lot higher right now, paramount up 10%. warner brothers discovery at 9%. disney up 2.33. it's a rosary forecast propelling the names higher, and it's not one that's on the screen. that's next in our market ♪ that you and your family need. i promise to put your long-term financial well-being above any short term transaction. everyone has a big picture. my job is to help you invest in yours. [announcer] charles schwab is proud to support the independent financial advisors

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liz: breaking news, israeli troops have now advanced past the gaza city outskirts at this hour according to the idf. the israeli ground troops are approaching via three different routes and are also on the outskirts of two ref i pew gee camps. the military is fighting with hamas and the islamic jihad militant group in several locations. this comes as hundreds of hostages kidnapped from israel october 7th are sill missing and hundreds of americans and other foreign nationals are attempting the flee gaza. fox news' alex hogan is right there in southern israel with the latest details. alex. >> reporter: hi, liz. the idf in releasing that statement just within the last 30 minutes said the idea of a

ceasefire is simply off the table. now, i am in southern israel, we are about 8 miles if from the border with gaza. this is really the last place that you can go before all of the land you see behind me completely evacuated. you can hear the sound of some of the artillery overhead. that ising with fired at gaza. now, on the ground there israeli forces continue to move forward mainly by tank saying that within the last several hours they've managed to take out as many as 130 hamas terrorists, but also by sea today. the idf says one of its missile ships actually managed to strike a building that was rigged with explosives. >> translator: we are on the outskirts of gaza city, and we are advancing further. we also have casualties, painful casualties. every fallen soldier is the loss of an entire world, and our hearts are with their families. i want to convey one thing, nothing will stop us. >> reporter: and in gaza aid organizations are assessing the

damage. according to the united nations, 1.4 million people are displaced and 700,000 of them are staying in u.n. shelters which we are learning are about four times their typical capacity. wounded victims have been among the first to successfully leave through the rafah crossing and the world health organization says one-third of the hospitals in gaza are closed. those that are open are struggling because of the lack of fuel. now to the north of the country tonight we are learning more about the idf saying that it took a series of aims at hezbollah targets in lebanon after it identified at least a dozen rocket launches from lebanon toward two israeli territory. the white house is now warning of concerns growing in that part of the world with, again, those strikes taking place on israeli territory. but much of the focus, liz, has been on the citizens in gaza who are trying to get out. the white house says as many as 74 u.s. double national, so passport holders who might be

american citizens and have another nationality, have been able to get out, but we know as many as 400 americans are in gaza hoping the state department will issue them that time slot of when they can leave. liz? liz: excellent report, very informative, alex. please, you and the crew stay safe. as always, we appreciate it. >> reporter: thank you. liz: fox business alert, starbucks getting a really nice jolt after posting quarterly numbers and revenue, both earnings and revenue that beat expectations. the stock right now at $100.52, it's gaining 10%. that's a 3-month high. the coffee white house -- coffee house saying same-store sales rose by 8 helping to offset weaker china sales, which still rose by 5% compared to 45% in the previous quarter. that should tell you about the chinese chi, they're not -- chinese chi.

the seattle-based company opened 816 new stores during the quarter bringing its total globally to 38,038 stores. investors dashing for door, dash do. the stock is on pace for its largest percentage increase since may of 2021. it's gaining 15.7% right now. the online food-ordering company reported a record number of orders for the third quarter. they took in 543 million owners worth $16.89 billion. doordash also raised its full-year outlook and added a pop-up in its app warning customers that orders with no many tip the might take longer to get delivered. and not hurting them at the moment, so we shall see if it hits in the current quarter. who knows but tip your delivery people. come on. solar edge losing a lot of power. that's a 4-year low right now that you see on the screen.

it's actually off the lows of the session but down 4.25% after swinging to the a surprise third quarter profit loss and weaker than expected revenue which came in 27% lower than compared to a year ago. the solar product manufacturer also gave weak guidance for the fourth quarter. solar edge's ceo said a slowdown in demand due to the rising rate environment has resulted in higher inventory. and investors are tuning in to the roku after the company reported better than expected third quarter revenue, up 20% year-over-year driven this in part by strong sales of roku-branded tvs which launched in march of 2023. so, i mean, recently. it's doing very well for the company. roku's up 30.8% at the moment. the company also saw improving ad revenue, that contributed to a rosy forecast for the fourth quarter. roku's now $78.07.

well, fate of ftx founder sam bankman-fried is now in the hands of the jury at this hour. deliberations have begun as to whether the crypto exchange founder intentionally defrauded customers, lenders and investors. we're going to the game out his chances with o.j. simpson's former attorney robert shapiro. we'll ask him if the defense was in its right mind when they put sbf if on the stand. is and who in their right mind fumbles the the great job in sports radio by committing securities fraud? losing his on-air gig and ending up behind bars? in my brand new everyone talks to liz podcast episode is, there he is, he is craig carton, formerly of the famed boomer and carton show. he shares his roller coaster ride are from being the cohost of a top-rated sports and tv the radio show to serving time in prison and then fighting his way back to redemption and a new spot on fox sports' morning

show. get the play-by-play on how to come back from a self-inflicted prison sentence. it is a both painful and totally lifting story i hope you will download and listen to, i don't know, when you're in the car, you're at home, you've got some time. my new episode is on apple, google, spotify, it heart radio. dow continuing to hold its gains of 519 points. s&p up 77. nasdaq up 228. ♪ ♪

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liz: start the clock, the jury in the trial of ftx founder sam bankman-fried is now behind closed doors in a manhattan federal courthouse. they began deliberations in the fraud trial 23 minutes ago. they will remain there, order on the judge, right? until 8 p.m. eastern unless they reach a verdict before that. the judge has asked the jurors to give him a heads up if dinner will be necessary. he also said it's going to be pizza, no choice. fox business' kelly o'grady has been following this trial minute by minute outside manhattan federal court. kelly. >> reporter: it's great to see you, liz. i actually have some new information to bring you that i just got right now.

right when the jury was leaving, sam bankman-fried was seen talking to his mom and his dad. his mom looked really upset, dad led her out. but, of course, you can only imagine what's going through her mind. her son's life hangs in the balance. the question, how long is is is this going to take. bernie madoff came four days to the verdict, the elizabeth holmes took seven days to come to a verdict. sometimes though it takes just hours. and the thing is, they have a lot to consider, right? they're going to go count by count, determine if they feel the prosecution met their burden of proof, and he faces seven charges in total. you mentioned up to 110 years he faces in prison. i will note though he could get far less based on the verdict that he gets for each charge and and how the judge approaches sentencing. i'll also note that elizabeth holmes, when she was convicted, she faced up to 80 years in prison, she did only get 11 years which she is now serving. the final thing though that's in

the jury's minds right now is the prosecution's rebuttal that they heard this morning. assistant u.s. attorney dramatically delivered those remarks. she said sam bankman-fried's in good faith defense doesn't work. even if he thought he could get customers' money back, he still took it in the first place. the other thing, he admitted knowing there was a problem in september, yet he continued to lie to the public for the next two months. proud still fraud even if only for two months. she ended with he thought he was smarter than you, he could fool the public. that, you know better, you, the jury, though better. so right now, liz, they've gone into that room. the foreman is likely getting a straw poll of where everyone stands, how close they are, how far apart. we are going to find out in 17 minute, at 4 p.m. we're going to reconvene, and hear, okay, do they need to order dinner. and that could give us an indication, welsh, maybe they are, you know, close, we're going to have a verdict or, you

know, maybe they're going to order dinner and that means this is just actually, we're too far apart and is we're going to move for monday. doesn't make sense to stay until 8 p.m., so we will bring you that news. liz: the closing arguments finished yesterday, and they went on for several hours, am i correct? both the defense and prosecution took a lot of time to outlay their case. >> reporter: that's right, liz. so the prosecution took multiple hours. there were a couple of snafus, we had to pause many times in the middle of it because a screen wasn't working. but i will say very strong, very dramatic, very methodical. the defense also took three hours. they stayed late, we were here until past 6 p.m. just so they could complete that and then, obvious, the rebuttal this morning. liz: oh, boy. kelly o'grady, thank you so much. up next, famed defense attorney robert shapiro will game what are the odds for sam bankman-fried e and would he have put him on the stand to every of?

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medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. here's why... medicare alone doesn't pay for everything. a medicare supplement plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. and that could mean fewer surprise out-of-pocket costs for you. call unitedhealthcare... and ask for your free decision guide. or talk with a licensed insurance agent or producer about plan benefits, options, and rates. this type of plan lets you choose any doctor, any specialist, anywhere in the us who accepts medicare patients. so call unitedhealthcare for your free decision guide... and get help protecting yourself from those out-of-pocket costs medicare doesn't pay. oh, and happy birthday... or retirement... in advance. liz: breaking news, the jury has now deliberated for 31 minutes in the sam bankman-fried trial. sbf faces up to 110 years in

prison if convicted on multiple counts of fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering. will it come to that? i wanted to bring in famed attorney robert shapiro who's defended johnny carson, o.j. simpson, the kardashian family. robert, if you had to guess, how long the jury will take to come to a verdict? >> you know, two things i don't guess about, liz, how long a jury take for a verdict and who's going to win the kentucky derby. [laughter] if. liz: i get it, because you never really know. let's, let's flip that over and look at it through the prism of the judge. the judge wants hem there until 8 p.m. tonight, and he said let me know if we should order dinner. i mean, what do you read into that? >> the judge does not want to wait til monday to give the jurors a weekend to the think about it. he wants to get a verdict today. court's closed tomorrow, ask

it's not uncommon -- and it's not uncommon for judges to want to bring a verdict to conclusion as soon as possible. but also they don't want to to rush the jury. this is a real complex case. on many levels. you're dealing with very sophisticated types of financial transactions. but factually it's a pretty simple case. so the jury, the jury is basically going to look at bankman-fried's testimony, which we'll get into, and make a determination. two things, do hay believe him and do they like him. and it's going to be as simple as that, because once a defendant testifies -- which, in my experience, is sitting in the most difficult chair you can sit in -- reasonable doubt goes out the door, liz. no longer are you talking about whether or not the prosecution proved the case beyond a

reasonable doubt. now it's simply do you believe the defendant, do you think he's been honest, truthful and reliable. and that's why you rarely see defendants testify. difficult place to sit. cross-examination is always challenging. terrific lawyers in this case. liz: yeah, but would you have put him on the stand? >> i would be very reluctant to put him on the stand. but he did some things that early on caused him to have to take take the stand. one of my policies is if you talk, i walk. and he couldn't keep his mouth shut, and he ended up in jail because of violating court orders. but at this point in time, when you're dealing with the greatest weapon the prosecution has which is conspiracy, of the seven charges five are conspiracy, you

don't have to prove an actual crime took place. the government only has to prove that two or more people entered into an agreement, and they did something in furtherance of that agreement to commit a crime even though no crime was actually committed. very, very difficult to overcome those types of cases. liz: he faces 110 years in prison. you know, obviously, in federal court. and those kinds of instructions that you get from a judge, they're by the book. they are now advisory. they're not mandatory, right? >> that's correct. liz: what does a judge usually do in a verdict in federal court these days? trend one way or the other? >> most of the judges are still following the guidelines. they want to keep universal sentencing across the board. but there's been some dramatic changes that are helpful to the defense for things that aren't considered in the guidelines.

lawyers are able to bring those things up and to the argue for a point reduction. for those who don't know, the guidelines are federal sentencing commission that lists every crime possible and every amount of money if it's a financial crime. it's a point count. if you get from 1-10 count, you get probation. if you go above probation, it goes on the number -- on the amount of money. and when you're in the billions of dollars, you are off the charts, you go to the end of the chart and you're facing liz: robert, i will tell you something, as you look at this entire case he came on this show circle times. i want you to listen to one portion of an interview i did with him a year ago in august. so before the belly-up moment of his company ftx it was discovered a lot of money was

missing and he had to declare bankruptcy, in this interview he just had announced a new product and i pushed him how he was able to make the promises he was making about it. listen, and we'll get your comment. you are announcing as of last week that your stock trading to u.s. users. you're opening that opportunity. no trading fees or payments for order flow business model. talk about how that model will work and how are you able to be able to do that and still make a profit? >> totally. so at the very beginning we're not going to be making a profit on this is the actual answer. if we do end up with fees here we are strongly thinking about making those explicit an trying to make those low and hopefully more than just competitive. rather than thinking about this in terms of you sneaking them in. liz: sneaking them in. that is one of the accusations that he was using allegedly

customer money without customer consent to put it in other investments. that is the kind of thing i want to know from you, does that really hurt him? >> no, 2 kills him. earlier on i said you talk, i walk. there is no reason for him to try to be his best advocate. number one, he is extremely intelligent but he is not that articulate and he couldn't come across that well. and you know, look it, when you're a target of a grand jury investigation, you have professionals there that are trained to speak to the media on your behalf, if it can benefit you and, he is not advocate for himself. and those things came back to haunt him on cross-examination. all his prior statements. liz: robert shapiro, thank you very much. it is great to have you on the show for your perspective. we appreciate it.

>> always great to see you, liz, keep up the great work. liz: thank you, thank you. apple shares moving higher by 2.1%. investors are gearing up to dissect apple earnings after the bell. here is the news, the international trade commission though recently ruled that apple infringed on a masimo patent on technology that monitors oxygen levels in the watch that the company makes. joining me in a fox business exclusive. masimo ceo. what is the rule, how might it affect apple and say apple watches or what the organization says happened with your watch? >> hi, liz, nice to see you again. as you know in january of last year the alj ruled in our favor in a 300 page plus that apple infringed one of our patents. they went to the commission. both sides briefed it intensely and the commission finally ruled in our favor. in fact added back a patent that

the alj had not put in the case so at this point apple looking forward to an injunction on the sv 02, the pulse oximeter feature, our invention, in the manner it was implemented. hopefully without a president intervention, december 26th the apple watch could no longer be displaying pulse oximetry and other things as well. liz: the wearables is big for them. masimo to keep the potentially life-saving product from millions of u.s. consumers. let's quote "the new york times" op-ed at that said apple sells a lot of smart watches during the holidays but its sales of most apple watch models may drop 100% to literally zero the day after christmas. i mean the likelihood that

president biden vetoes the import ban, there that possibility? >> obviously it is a possibility but i think it is highly unlikely because presidents rarely intervene. the only time i remember a president intervening is when a patent was involved which had to do with a standard. when a patent is used in a standard you can no longer get an injunction. ours is not the case. and the stuff apple says about itc is a little unfair. first of all, we did not abuse itc. we use itc as it is supposed to be. both sides. we had the trial. we had the posttrial motions. liz: okay. >> and their product is not even helpful to people because it doesn't measure properly. it gives two measurements a day, less than 37% of the people. liz: okay. we got to run. i'm sure apple would disagree with that. we'll have earnings after the bell. [closing bell rings] joe kiano of mass sim