everything is more expensive. it was a 40 year cycle. now powell flipped everything. so it will cause each sector of our economy to have different challenges to it. i vote the market goes up forever. i love it. rallies are phenomenal, but what goes up, comes down. recessions are healthy. they come and go. we'll see this with a financial crisis at the same time. that could be a bad, bad reality for us. liz: we could be overdue for one. we're definitely overdue for recession which comes and goes every couple of years, we know that. >> david, that's right. liz: shortened session. we have so much breaking news. [closing bell rings] liz: look at this gain, 533 points for the dow. s&p in the green. just the nasdaq down. we'll see you tomorrow. ♪ larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. in a few moments fox's ace

white house correspondent peter doocy will be here. he will report on john kirby's briefing in white house and hostage story. the possibility of a even longer cease-fire between israel and hamas. waiting in the wings we have the great laura ingraham to talk about the big ron desantis, gavin newsom debate tonight on sean hannity's show. that will be at 8:00 p.m former national security advisor robert o'brien will talk to me about henry kissinger later in the show. with all that i would like to begin tonight with a little discussion about how donald trump's bankers completely blew up the letitia james, arter engineer ron case against the president. blew it up. a couple of deutsche bank folks lending hundreds of millions of dollars to the trump organization down through the years absolutely destroyed the stupid left-wing new york

socialist attack on mr. trump. now, the brilliant john than turley will be here later toward the back end of the show and he will give his erudite analysis from a leal standpoint. from a nonlegal terms a number about of deutsche bank employees, this is the story, they told the new york judge they made millions of dollars from mr. trump's businesses and saw no fraud in the loans they approved. they told the judge that trump repaid his loans with interest. there was never any concern that trump defrauded the bank and they unveiled a parade of emails going back years where the bankers heaped compliments and praise for the trumps and their businesses. the bankers story goes all the way back to 2011, that is 12 years ago, regarding the renovation of the doral golf club near miami, florida. that turned out to be a tremendous success story.

bankers also testified mr. trump paid off his loans, frequently paid off his loans ahead of schedule! indeed the co-ceo of deutsche bank testified that the bank in 2013, in a meeting at trump tower, he suggested the bank could lend mr. trump even more money because mr. trump's credit worthiness was so strong. now, this goofy justice engeron with all his ties to the new york democratic machine, barely listened to the crucial testimony of mr. trump's bank lenders and that is too bad. of course in new york as elsewhere nowadays, during the biden years, republicans and conservatives are subjected to a two-tiered justice system. the charges against mr. trump concerning the allegation of inflated assets, alleged falsifying financial statements, insurance fraud, all that is a fabrication based on left-wing

imaginations. this is just like the other charges against trump in washington and florida and georgia which would seek to deny the former president his first amendment rights to free speech, his right to express his own opinions. in this country that right is not a crime. also in this country, if your banker testifies that you paid up every loan on time or even before the loan came due, and that includes the interest payments, and there was no fraud, and the asset values are a matter of opinion, not science, the key point is paying back the loan, with interest. if the bankers are saying this, then what are the prosecutors trying to do? well, prosecutors, that's the democratic prosecutors, they're trying to confiscate mr. trump's businesses and throw him in jail forhundred -- 700 years, anything to improvish him to keep him out of the white house

next november. that is what all this is about, including just to go back again the ludicrous 18 million-dollar asset valuation, that the goofy new york judge believes mar-a-lago is worth. that judge in new york has become the laughingstock of real estate brokers in south florida and around the country. that property in mar-a-lago, i was just there two weeks ago, that thing is probably worth a billion dollars, not 18 million. come back to the silly new york case. there is no victim. there is no fraud. there is no squealing bankers. there is no statute violation. there is no intent. there is no materiality, and there are no ill-gotten gains. as with all the trumped up charges by the democratic regime, there is no nothing. that is my take. disagree, i understand but that's the way i see it.

jonathan turley will be coming around later in the show to talk some more about this. so let's go straight first to fox business's own ash webster with the stats behind the debate to flight. gavin newsom versus ron desantis. oh, my gosh. so ash, what are your stats? you know what, ashley, i will take you over both of them but what are your stats? >> reporter: [laughter] i will quit right there larry, and take it to the bank. listen ron desantis, ron desantis has more to lose even though tonight even though florida's governor has a huge advantage over his california opponent when it comes to bragging rights. the question is, can he make it count? big government versus small government and the stats show a clear winner and i'm going to prove it. look at the tale of the tape. begin with employment between the two states, since 2019 florida gained more than a million jobs.

california, lost 85,000. the unemployment rate stands at 4.8% in california. in florida, almost half of that at 2.8%. new business applications, 2.3 million in the golden state. 2.7 million in florida. as for population, california lost just over a million resident. florida gained 737,000. as for spending, this is remarkable, california has a 31 1/2 billion dollar shortfall despite all of those high taxes. florida, meanwhile has a $17.7 billion surplus. no, let's not forget the cost of gas. we do this a lot in florida. the current average is $3.17 a gallon while in california it stands $4.84 thanks of course to higher taxes and don't forget those climate regulations. so with those stats, i think you can expect gavin newsom to focus on the abortion issue, book banning, climate change, while

desantis will have plenty of opportunity to plug his resume', larry and he does have the numbers to prove it. he just has to get into center stage tonight and put on a performance that will win over a national audience. larry, back to you. larry: you know, ash, what governor gavin newsom, who by the way is an old friend of mine or old acquaintance of mine, what he needs to learn, if you tax something more you get less of it. if you tax something less you get more of it. >> reporter: exactly. larry: that is a very simple economics lesson. anyway, thank you, ash. >> reporter: one he hasn't learned. thank you, larry. larry: let's go straight to fox news peter doocy live after the white house. thank you now doing all of this. what's cooking? >> reporter: we're hearing from firms at biden white house, they are confirming over the weekend president biden i'm plodder

bibi netanyahu to have a military operation in gaza's south, what we saw in gaza's north, whatever it is when fighting resumes. >> we have been very consistent and clear with our israeli counterparts we do not support a move to the south unless or until they have adequately accounted for the protection of innocent human life. >> reporter: netanyahu told biden according to "axios" he is still going to go into gaza's south because that is where hamas is now. soft pressure from d.c. on tel aviv is coming from ams top diplomat today. tony blinken is in israel is urging leaders not to sink to hamas's level. >> as i have also said since i first came here after october 7th, the way israel defends itself matters. it's imperative that israel act in accordance with international humanitarian law and the laws of war, even when confronting a terrorist group that respects

neither. >> reporter: as we watch a current secretary of state overseas frying to advance a u.s. president's interests it is worth pointing out president biden still has nothing to say about the former secretary of state henry kissinger's passing last night. we know biden respected kissinger a few weeks ago at a fund-raiser, he thought he knew as much as disinker about foreign policy. nothing on twitter/x, or on camera. no written statements from the press office. that is very unusual after a major american historical figure like kissinger passes away. larry? >> bush league, peter, bush league, peter. that is what that is. low-rented politics of the worst kind. kissinger consulted with biden. kissinger consulted with blinken, sorry. they don't have the political courage or the backbone to say something about him, something

nice, anyway. peter doocy, we appreciate very much your helping us out. all right, folks, much more fun, joining me now, the great laura inghram, host of "the ingraham angle" on fox news, the great laura ingraham. by the way the hannity debate is 9:00. i misspoke. i said 8:00. i don't want to misspeak on anything regarding this. we have a couple things to talk about. before i get into the debate, micro managing israel and the idf, that's what the bidens are doing. that's what democrats in the senate are doing. stopping israel from annihilating the terrorists and the murderers. i guess i'm not surprised but i am disappointed and i hope the israelis ignore biden completely. do you have a thought on it? >> is it surprising to anyone that politics trumps what is necessary in the face of evil when it comes to this

white house? they see their support among young voters declining. not just for foreign policy reasons though. the economy is just horrific for most young people despite what the market is doing today, larry. this is a business network. i have to be up on the markets up 500 points. larry: we report business, every now and then. [laughter] >> but look, it was clear from the beginning they were in an uncomfortable high-wire act in dealing with israel and, there is a toe in the pond of politics, there is a toe in the pond of middle east foreign policy and they don't know which way to go. what happens, you fall over. so to me it is very risky gambit that they are engaged in and i think we should kind of step back and let israel do what it will do. larry: exactly. >> we have not been very good in the middle east trying to manage things, across presidents, israel has done better than we've done. >> in all seriousness.

larry: let israel be israel. let the idf be the idf. get the job done, can get it over in three months, four months, stop interfering and micro managing. >> what we are doing worked well in ukraine. it worked well in afghanistan. there is pattern ever lack of accountability. the same policies get pushed. they continue to crash and burn and the american people foot the bill. there is enormous carnage left behind and then we kind of do it all over again. so i say you know it is time to kind of take care of business at home. we have our ally who is a democracy in the middle east. we should respect that and we should support that. larry: attend to our borders on the southern part of the country, how about that idea? >> well -- larry: which is a fistfight in the senate. house, good, hr.2, pretty good bill. senate all over the place. democrats can't get their act

together. why not focus on that? >> there is enormous political gain to be had on that for republicans if they were unified on the border but the emotion is reserved foreissues like ukraine. other foreign policy issues on the part of our senate leadership. meanwhile the american people are saying, excuse me, have you been to our town square? have you been to the bus station? have you been to the airport? and it's inhumane, it is cruel, it is a cruel policy and i think our government has been rejected time and again by the voters on this issue and yet they, they're like open borders is their, that's their goal. oh, the goal is what is happening now. it is not a accident. larry: biden's goal not just democrats. >> moo republicans are not unified, larry. you cannot resolve republicans of any blame on this issue you know they were not exactly cheering when trump was talking about the wall. they dealt with trump on the wall. they didn't love the wall. they didn't love it at all.

larry: maybe not 100%, maybe 90%. keep building the wall but remain in mexico. >> trump solved all of this. this was solved. immediate turnback in the border. you can't apply for asylum in the united states. 98% are economic migrants, come here to get some economic benefit. maybe they will work or get benefits. this is such a boring debate for me, i've been having it for 20 years with people, not you. the american people say it is their number one issue inn some of these polls. number one. larry: agreed. let's go back to have some fun, gavin newsom and ron desantis. by the way i want to repeat the "hannity" debate is 9:00 p.m. >> maybe you're in a different time sown, to get sean mad, get a football thrown at your head. not foam either. a real one. larry: so what does laura ingraham make of this debate? >> well -- larry: with respect to desantis'

opportunity of a sort. you're taking the over or the under on desantis? >> well, look, you could argue what does desantis has to gain from this to do this? there is an argument to say there is not a lot to be gained for him. however with all the plutocrats coming in to give nikki haley a boost, maybe ron desantis who i think has had fantastic debates. obviously trump is not on the stage with him, i think he has done very well in the debates i think he has a chance to step out and step up in this debate. larry: can redeem himself partially? >> i don't think he really needs to redeem himself. i think his debate performances have been fantastic. i don't think they're is anything wrong with them. he equits himself, i think the trump will be nominee. if for some reason it won't be trump, who has the executive experience, who has the track record on issues that people care about? if you're just looking at it clinically, that is ron desantis. but tonight is a big

opportunity. larry: if he had spoken, the, ash webster presentation which has been in "the wall street journal" other publications -- >> yeah. larry: i think if desantis had spoken up early in the campaign, literally a year ago, instead of getting involved in legal machinations with disney -- >> culture war. i see your point. larry: investors took disney down. >> yeah. larry: yeah, they would have taken him down. >> ted cruz is also very bright. he kind of went down that road in the presidential campaign. brilliant person. i'm sure he would be a great president but the issues that people care about number one, energy prices, border economy. larry: yeah, yeah. >> that's it. i will bring your gas down to two dollars a gallon. that would be a good start. larry: if desantis said, drill, baby, drill, if desantis said we'll sustain the trump tax cut and build on them more -- >> you think he would be ahead of trump? larry: well, i don't mow that he would be ahead of trump because i think the republican party's

heart and soul is with trump but it would have helped desantis. >> but larry, it would have helped. larry: it wouldn't have been a 50% lead. it would have been something less. >> when you have trump and desantis and vivek ramaswamy, they're conservative populace in the race. that 84, 85% of the party. so what is going on, the establishment still thinks we got this? larry: no, no the donors are always wrong. >> donors think like democrats. larry: the donors are always wrong. it is a key principle in politics. >> it is not in 2004. the country has moved on. larry: you had not said a word about gavin newsom. >> fun fact? gavin newsom, because he used to come on my radio show all the time, he was the first guest on my radio show, i hosted it in san francisco because i was traveling, he was in studio with me. he was known as pragmatist on board of supervisors. larry: mayor of san francisco. >> he was on the board of

supervisors. he was running for mayor. he got rid of vouchers for people for nothing. he was pretty pragmatic then. things have changed. he is well-spoken guy, he is adept debater but does not have facts on his side. larry: it is a thin deck but he will give it his best shot. he used to come own my old cnbc show. what you're saying is basically right. he was moderate, sometimes pro-business democrat. >> those are extinct. that is not a thing anymore. larry: tie ran sar -- tyrannosaurus rexs. >> they both have good hair. this will be excellent hair forum. each of them have their forum. i'm joking. i want ad debate between haley and desantis, but i was told rnc doesn't give permission. you can't have debates among republicans without rnc

approval. that is where it is at, establishment versus up start -- larry: they will slug it out any way. >> i want to see that. if it is not trump involved in the debate, you want to see haley versus desantis. larry: i love issue debates. >> exactly. larry: one last thing. you're awful kind with your time. love being here, are you kidding in new york with larry kudlow? it doesn't get better than this. larry: it is fabulous. >> you should see the homework. zoom in on the pile of paper. larry comes in with stack of stuff. i am lucky if i have two pieces of paper. larry: i always do. henry kissinger passed away at old age at 100. i assume you met him? >> i knew him quite will. we used to have lunch quite a bit. larry: what you think? >> we debated firesly and i mean fiercely about china. that shocks you to hear. larry: i knew this was coming. >> for 25 years since i met him the first time and it was always respectful but it was hot, it

was heated. and he had a few that look, we just have to manage the world as it is and you know, he was brilliant. he could speak in full paragraphs, quoting the great, the great books, the great authors, the great british authors, the great economists. there was no one else like him. his life was complicated and the issues -- larry: no, that's right. >> the issues he dealt with. i'm not going to bring up any criticisms of him because in death, there is time to do that. he was always very gracious to me but we had massive knock-down, drag-out debates about china and -- larry: we had, my saintly wife judy and i would go to bill and pat buckley dinners. >> oh, my gosh. those are old days. those are fun days. larry: way back. >> when new york was habitable. larry: here in the townhouse or up in connecticut. nancy and henry kissinger. >> she is brilliant.

larry: she is very smart. he taught me a lot. like you i always didn't agree, but when i got into government, laura, just last point, now i'm on the china trade team. >> oh, yeah. larry: we're going after china as they deserve. >> you and lighthizer. larry: we were allies, we and lighthizer. you were the first to hammer me on china. you had some impact. >> thank you. larry: anyway, just saying, during the period, hernry, this is the last few years of the trump administration as we were trying to work out a deal with china, henry said, i said, henry, we are meeting with these guys, it is not, these are not the ping free market reforms, they're repressing, everything. he agreed. even though the china opening was perhaps his greatest moment historically it has gone sour and china has gone sour but he agreed with that. he saw it was not turning out

well. >> they know that without henry kissinger they would be looking at being basically tied with us as superpowers around the world. kissinger really made the rise of china. without him i don't think the rise of china would be possible. they were really toasting him today. he had a good position on immigration at the end. i don't know if you said the clip. we hang delled immigration poorly. we don't melt into other cultures, they melt into ours. larry: going back in time, robert o'brien will come and talk more about henry kissinger, former national security advisor. reagan ran against kissinger in '76 and 80. reagan wanted to overthrow soviet communism. >> he thought he was too easy on soviet union. larry: kissinger was in, you're smarter than, balance of power, day taunted. >> detente was his.

reagan said we needed to get stronger as a nation in order to deter the soviet threat. it was peace through strength. he took kissinger right on, he thought kissinger was a threat on the seven yet issue. look, reagan was right. larry: i knew him. >> oh, you did? larry: early part of the 19th century. not bismarck. >> old days. larry: laura inghram, absolutely the best of the best. catch laura every night "the ingraham angle," fox news. every now and then i get a whack at that show. thank you for doing this. >> absolutely, i wouldn't miss it. larry: now we run off to fox business's edward lawrence live at the white house. edward, opec plus announces cuts of another million barrels a day. what is up with that? >> reporter: yeah, and before we get to that i want to tell you, what laura talked about, the best hair debate going on, i don't know, that could be the best hair debate going on but yes, opec plus, you mentioned

it. one million barrels a day. they did a couple things. two of them, one, that extension, adding one million barrels a day, cutting it back, off of the production. they're also saudi arabia decided to add, extend its one million barrel-a-day cut for next year. so in essence, two million barrels a day being cut, that in essence will keep oil prices more elevated than they are right now. the white house is downplaying so far that decision coming in today by opec. in fact last monday, nsc spokesperson john kirby said they're concerned about energy transition, not about opec. listen. >> the president will keep focusing as he has been on a healthy global market that is properly balanced, that can continue to bring the price of gasoline down here in the united states. >> thank you -- >> reporter: opec plus in their meeting also decided to extend a membership to brazil, the country part of an alliance with china, india, russia, south

africa, cutting side deals with china, to trade in chinese currency, not dollars. may be part of opec plus starting in january. oil executive dan eberhardt says the president should focus on u.s. production to reduce the importance of the oil conglomerate. >> if you look at what opec is doing, the demand for oil and gas is strong. we need to be transition to carbon neutral, that comes with investment. investment is harder if interest rates are high and inflation has run away. >> reporter: overall energy prices are up 40% from the month president biden took office. that includes electricity which is up 25% in that time, the very thing that president biden says his transition would reduce. there is no change in energy policy from this president since he has taken office. in fact my sources are telling me he is telling his aides go faster, do the transition faster, larry? >> yeah, sure. edward lawrence, 25 seconds, the dow jones was up whatever, 520,

530 points today despite the cutback in opec oil production. what do you make of it? >> yeah i think that is a reflection of the federal reserve. i think the market has now decided the fed will not raise rates this year as they indicated. there might be one more hike. they think the fed is done raising rates. the market believes there will be a rate cut next year, maybe in the march meeting but the federal reserve is indicating that cut might not be there. that is still open for debate, market reacting to that news that pce inflation, federal reserve not making a cut. larry: top line pce inflation number was 0.0 and whatever the fed does market interest rates, treasury market interest rates are coming down. they're coming down quite a bit as a matter of fact. anyway, edward lawrence terrific reporting we appreciate it very much. we're going to go, joining us mike sommers, he is the president of the american petroleum institute. is it institute?

api. there you go. mike sommers, you know, what do the saudis think, what do the saudis think they're going to get out of these production cutbacks? high prices but as you probably know, since september, last september when these, some production cuts already in place, saudis announced continuing, actually brent crude prices have come down in the open market. west texas has come down in the open market. gasoline prices. now it is all higher than it was three years ago, a lot higher but they have actually come down. the saudis are not getting 80, 90, $100 a barrel which they probably need for their budget. >> well, what a difference a decade makes, larry. when you put this in perspective the united states has doubled production just in the last decade alone of american oil and on the gas side. american natural gas makes up 36% of the world production of

natural gas and that's all because of the fracking revolution that occurred. we're now at 13.2 million barrels a day of production. unfortunately, larry, most of that is happening on private lands because we're continuing to have problems with the regulatory environment that we're dealing with under the biden administration. larry: in late 2019, pre-covid, we were at 13.1 million barrels a day. so in the, ensuing four years, one of them was covid. that doesn't count. three of them was in the current biden administration. we have not picked up at all. we ought to be at probably mike, i'm going to say 15 million barrels a day, just run the trend line. if you had drill, baby drill, there was no war against fossil fuels like there is now, we should be at 15. if i'm wrong, we should be at 16. and then, mike sommers, you know where i'm going on this, we

wouldn't give a hoot what opec plus is doing and furthermore, we would be draining money from iran, instead of feeding iran and the war and the terrorism, we would be draining money from iran and we would be draining money from russia, you know? so this thing is out of hand. we need a change in policy. >> that's exactly right. when you think about the american advantage here we've been able to get back up to 13.2 million barrels of production here in the united states despite a lot of the policies that we're dealing with from this administration. larry: right. >> basically cut off production on federal lands and in federal waters. larry: right. >> they have closed oaf alaska. we need more production here but that will take some real policy changes but the administration right now is focused on decreasing american production unfortunately when we should be increasing production because we know hostile regimes, hostile to

american interests will continue their efforts. larry: if you produce more, what happens to the price? >> it goes down, that's for sure. larry: oh, yes. >> larry we will continue to focus on getting these policies right but we also have to continue to invest in american oil and gas. we're in the depletion business. if that investment goes away, american production goes away as well. and unfortunately with the policies that we've seen, cutting off access to federal acres, cutting off access to federal waters, the work they're doing to cut the production in the great state of alaska, every american should be concerned about the policy decisions being made today, that will lead and sow the seeds to the next energy crisis. larry: mike sommers, best of the best. we have empowered saudis all over again. we have empowered iran all over again. we have empowerd russia all over again because of the war against fossil fuels which is totally unnecessary. mike sommers, thank you for coming on the show.

terrific stuff. folks we'll take a quick break. on the other side we'll talk about the electric vehicle revolt with michigan congressman john james. and then more on henry kissinger's life and legacy with national security advisor robert o'brien. i'm "kudlow." stick around folks. we have tons more straight ahead

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♪ larry: all right, so 3900 car dealers are launching a revolt against biden's electric vehicle push. biden is trying to jam it down their throats and they don't want to be jammed. joining us to talk about it is michigan congressman john james, who knows something about that. john, thanks for coming back on the show. this is not a good story. this is just not a good story. the carmakers, at least, i know about ford, they're losing a fortune trying to produce these electric vehicles. >> i'm a former automotive

supplier, so i understand the automotive supply chain intimately and i recognize that this forced comply or die transition being pushed by the federal government from dealers, mechanics, suppliers of all kinds will absolutely crater the economist let's be clear. you've been talking about this, this has been great. the biden administration doesn't hate oil and gas, they hate american oil and gas. former governor of michigan selling strategic petroleum reserve making us weaker, forcing ev transition people don't want, they're more expensive, making us more dependent on china, these types of policies make us beholden to china the first place and we need to make them accountable. larry: the chinese are forcing subsidies to do this, the irony,

the irony, the rare earth minerals and stuff have plenty in the united states and they won't let folks drill for that stuff, okay? it's bad enough they won't let us drill for natural gas and oil. they won't us drill for rare earth minerals that go in the darn batteries. how stupid is that? >> it is absolutely nonsensical. we have massive reserves of copper and rare earths in michigan. over in arizona you have lithium. larry: oh, yeah. >> you have the regulatory environment, regulatory state, doesn't allow us to maintain energy independence for evs and batteries. the limit, i'm sorry, the lower energy cost act, hr.1 we passed through the house this past first quarter was opposed by democrats and this administration which would lower cost of your energy, have gotten regulatory reform, would allow the american people to have lower cost of everything. we need to have an administration that understands the pain that they're putting on the american people, but i

actually think your pain is their plan. i think they want to force you off of gas into these evs at your expense. we shouldn't have that. we have lower energy costs, lower cost of living. we do that making sure all of the above energy approach. larry: kevin mccarthy came on the show a while back called it the kudlow bill. every night i kept saying when you all took over the house you got to drill, drill, it is very important. it hasn't happened yet. it will not happen until we get somebody different in the white house, honestly. it would be nice, we need some sensible majorities in both the house and the senate to straighten all these policies out, because america is going down the wrong road right now, wrong road. if you want to do evs, fine. as a matter of choice, right? >> that's right. larry: you want solar and wind? fine. don't spend trillions of dollars jamming it down our throats. give you the last word. >> we can't wait that long. we can't wait that long. i'm working on a policy to hold

the administration accountable for regulations that increase costs to our industry for billions of dollars for failing to meet unreal list lick objectives. i will protect michigan's number one manufacturing district in the nation and make sure we lower costs for everybody across america. larry: thank you, john james. we appreciate very much. good luck own that. we'll switch back, life and legacy of henry kissinger, someone that knew him well, my dear friend, robert o'brien, former national security advisor during the trump administration. thank you, robert. henry is a very controversial guy. great people are always controversial. i knew him personally. you knew him personally. i always thought he was lovely and gracious. the question, you might consider his legacy. we don't have time to do it justice. you will come on the radio for me. what is his legacy? how would you read that?

>> larry, what a life he led, you and i both knew him, 100 years, what an american story, he fleas germany flees germany, enlists as sergeant. how would you like to be a officer with kissinger enlisted sergeant? fights the nazis. teaches heart at harvard. advises every president from kennedy to joe biden. when he was in office, only to serve as national security advisor and secretary of state at the same time. served two presidents in office, president nixon, president ford. helped with the key role in the war in 1973, saving israel, brought about the opening of china and that is don't versal, granted but a major accomplishment for him. peace in vietnam with the paris peace accords. what a career.

larry: do you remember one quick anecdote, the day we signed the deal with china, the phase one deal which the chinese have not observed but anyway, we signed a deal. lihua, deputy prime minister of the economy representing xi. wheeling in kissinger, henry in a wheelchair. wheel him through the basement. you looking upstairs. help me bring him upstairs to the dining room behind the oval. a lot of people. they cleared the decks. we wheeled henry in right next to president trump. trump says to henry, well, henry what do you think? i will never forget it. >> well, i wouldn't have done it that way but you won. [laughter]. trump broke out in a big smile. i wouldn't have done it that way but you won. i mean henry knew, i think, in

his last years that china was not the same china when he opened it, had gone back to being a statist, communist dictatorship, no market openings left. the deng xiaoping reforms were gone. i think he knew that history will tell. but i think he knew that, robert. >> well he did, i am chairman of the knicks sown library. we had henry out to the library number of times. it was always gracious, helped promote president nixon's legacy. talked about it on one of our last visits. he said when we let china in the wto, that is the big problem. that is when things changed. china took advantage of the situation. claimed to be a developing country. put the screws to america. hollowed out our middle class and hollowed out our manufacturing base. wasn't the same china he opened. he understood in the end china was not the same regime he dealt with for some years. larry: no --

>> he knew they had taken advantage of us. not just advantage of us but taken advantage of the whole world. larry: we're running a picture of you and henry kissinger. henry is on a cane at that point. i don't know when that picture was taken but that point about the wto is exactly right. henry knew that. this was lighthizer's point. this was trump's point. so the whole game has changed for the worst and the whole wto thing shouldn't have gone through. plus china has become far more reexpressive than during the market opening days than during the '80s and '90s. whatever the commodity controversyies he had world war ii record and his government service and that is pretty darn unusual. i'm very disappointed that president biden hasn't said

something nice about kissinger because discuss inker advised biden ad biden's request. you have the last word, robert o'brien? >> look when i was national security advisor henry would talk to me every week or two. every time i had a big negotiation with the russians or chinese or in the middle east i was always on the phone with henry. he was incredibly wise. he was defer earningsal, didn't try to tell me what to do. he gave me the best advice and became a friend. that picture walking into the nixon library. it was a special night a special picture, we gave him the architect of peace award, richard nixon a tech of peace award. his role with detente, paris peace accords and rhodesia, ending civil war in rhodesia. every turn he was man of peace. far left always hated him just like they hated nixon, just like they hated trump and it is really unfortunate. my wife made the point how sad it is for a man who dedicated

his whole life to his country, adopted country, there is so much vitriol and nastiness about this man who died? part goes to the anti-semitism we're seeing so prevalent among the left and progressives. larry: all right. >> henry kissinger was a great american. i was proud to be his friend. i know you were as well. larry: i was too. >> by the way in those trade negotiations you mentioned lighthizer and trump. there was a guy name kudlow who had a pretty big role in that as well. larry: i spent five 1/2 hours with henry at his place. he is an hour north of me in connecticut. we were going to have a nice lunch. i wound up staying five 1/2 hours. three legal pads later on china. robert o'brien, thanks for giving us your time. we appreciate it very, very much. folks we take a quick break, coming up president trump's bankers just blew up the entire phony new york fraud case against the president. we're going to talk to jonathan turley who will give us the

legal analysis. i gave you my little riff at the top of the show in a non-legal way. jonathan turley on this blow-up by trump's bankers. how about that bankers to the rescue. boy, that's different. salonpas, makers of powerful pain relief patches for 89 years... believes in continuous improvement... like rounded corners that resist peeling, with an array of active ingredients... and sizes to relieve your pain. salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪ students... students of any age, from anywhere. students in a new kind of classroom. ♪ using our technology to power different ways of learning. ♪

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larry: one more time president trump's bankers i think blew up the entire new york fraud case. my view, non-legal. somebody that knows something about this stuff the great jonathan turley, george washington university law professor, constitutional lawyer. jonathan, that is my view. i'm giving the floor over to you. go. >> 2 was an amazing day in court and i actually have a column own that testimony coming out in the messenger because i considered it really extraordinary and it really highlights the problem or the curious aspect of the case. you've got this new york law that allows james to proceed against trump even though no one lost any money, even though banks didn't complain and on that basis she's asking for a "nuclear option. she is basically trying to end the, end the role of the corporation of new york, taking away certificates and imposing a quarter of a billion dollars in

damages for money that was not lost. so these guys get on the stand and they said, look, you know, estimates differ. you don't rely on those estimates. you rely on your own estimates but they also said we made money here around we tried to get more loans with the trump. they described trump as being a whale client, someone you really want and the disconnect of that testimony with what james is seeking is really breathtaking. so the question is at what point do we address the critical question here? look, there does appear to me to be estimation problems from the trump side but i can't find any case like this. justice is about consistency and proportionality. i can't even find a case that comes close to what james is trying to do here. larry: i mean, jonathan, it is a rare thing, i spent many years on wall street. it is a rare thing when your banker comes to defend you,

okay? very, rare, honestly especially in this day and age and that's what happened in effect. bankers came with a straight face and said here are the numbers. it is an empirical question and you're right. it is a victimless crime. in fact the bankers made, deutsche bank made a ton of money from trump and they're trying, last point, jonathan, we don't have much time, but look it, what -- >> it is bizarre. ilarry: i was going to say. >> it is like a car theft case -- larry: that's right, that's right. >> well it is like a car theft case where the victim comes in, no, i have the car and it actually came back worth more. it is hard to make that a compelling case. larry: you got it. jonathan turley, i'm sorry we don't have more time. they just blew it up. anyway, thank you, mr. turley. we appreciate. >> thank you, larry. larry: all right, folks, i'm

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larry: it sure sounds like joe biden and team bide reason twisting israel's arms not to go to the south gaza. h and finish the job to annihilate hamas, and that is very bad. very, very bad. so, folks, got to watch david asman that's going to clean up the whole story and give you the