flights with breeze, and under $400 for international trips on select airlines. major hotel brands like marriott, hyatt and hard rock offering discounts between 20 and 50% off room rentals and you can sail on the sea with voyages on norwegian cruises offering deals on their newest ships and save up to 1,000 dollars on group tours with the adventure company geographic expeditions and after your shopping spree i hope you'll join me weekdays on "mornings with maria" 6:00-9:00 a.m. eastern on fox business. that'll do it for us, thank you so much for being with me. i wish you and all of your family and friends a happy thanksgiving weekend. we'll see you next time.

>> welcome to barrons round table where we get behind the headlines, we hope you had a wonderful thanksgiving and thanks for being back with us. coming up a shorter holiday season means a bigger retail squeeze. dana telsey is here to tell us how shoppers and retailers are juggling the holiday hustle and trends investors ought to be watching right now. later we've got a checklist of money moves to make ahead of the new year to get your financial house in order. but we begin with our expert panel and three big macer" moves that investors ought to be considering right now now. on the round table my colleagues ben levinson and elizabeth o'brien and andrew berry. so its been a nice year in the stock market but one sad area has been the poor healthcare stocks having a lousy year, and then the election happened and they went down

another leg. what's going on? >> that's right healthcare stocks have lagged down about 8% for the month and there's a lot of uncertainty in the sector investors are waiting to see whether trump's pick for the health department will be confirmed of course rfk jr. and his anti-vax stance is sort of rattled vaccine makers like pfizer and glaxo-smith kline and also fears he doesn't like the obesity drugs that weighed on the makers of these like eli lilly and novo nordisk but some say the sectors is over sold with recent upgrades by the recent drugmaker biontech. >> we've got stocks like pfizer, merck, and j & j actually down on the year and there could be opportunities there. i'd point to pfizer which is near 52 week low around 25 with about a 7% dividend yield the stock which looks pretty safe. i'd also highlight covid vaccine maker moderna which is under 40 right now down about 60% with almost half its market cap in cash. >> 7% dividend sounds pretty

nice. one of the few bright spots has been humana since the election, because of the idea that the medicare rules might change, that would help in its favor. >> that's right there's some talks a republican administration will be more favorable to medicare advantage which is of course the privately-run alternative to traditional medicare and that would benefit humana which is a pure medicare advantage play and they might benefit from increased government payment rates next year. >> which is good for the stock. could that be tougher on medicare patients? >> good question. that remains to be seen. all the plan details are set for 2025 so there will not be any immediate changes. >> all right on the other side of the ledger, ben, its been a fantastic year for bitcoin, more than doubled this year. does that keep ongoing what do you think? >> when you look at bitcoin, you can't judge it by earnings because it doesn't have one. it's not a stock and you can't judge it by the amount of interest it's going to pay you because it's not a bond. >> cash flow? >> no cash flow. there's nothing there.

it's based on sentiment. right now it's great, donald trump's election win, he's gone from being a crypto skeptic to loving the thins, talked about having a strategic crypto reserve and all this caused crypto to go up and when you have something based only on sentiment you have to look at the chart and there's no resistance in sight. this can go 120,000, why not. >> how do you think investors should get their head around a valuation? >> i mean, i think you have to think of it like gold. it's something you put in your portfolio that has a different way of moving around. gold also does not have a stream of cash flow or anything but it is a value where you think of bitcoin like that and stick it in the same kind of sleeve in your portfolio. >> so what about analog bitcoin? what do you think about gold right here? >> i like it. it was very strong until the election. i think part of what caused it to sell-off is that people have we're expecting there to be a long count of votes and we wouldn't know who the president

was but gold pulled back a little bit. gold is always a bet on geopolitical uncertainty, political uncertainty, its beene very well over the past 25 years and actually topped the s&p 500 and can keep going up. >> and definite worries continue, people might see gold that way. speaking of the longview us stocks had a great run, a cio i follow pointed out over 17 years the s&p 500 has beaten the msci by 320%. is that going to keep going? >> you can't really overstate just how well us stocks have done versus those abroad for the last 10, 15, as you say 17 years. this year is another poor year for international stocks. s&p 500 is up around 25%. one of the main etf's to track international stocks ticker iefa is up only around 4-5% so the disappointing returns are continuing and part of it has to do with the lack of big tech stocks in europe and in

asia as well as the trump win is not helping because the prospect of tariffs hurting those economies and also the strong dollar. >> so on the one hand the playbook says reversion to the mean is very powerful at some point, that this huge delta between the two is going to close so you want to be in international but then to your point. like i could buy a french retailer but i'd rather own the mega seven mega cap stocks in the us or in general, the innovation that's happening in this country. how do you get your head around that dichotomy? >> it's clearly mess innovation in europe and japan than here. they don't have a mag7, there's maybe mag 1 or 2 there. but european stocks trade about half the valuation of us stocks, 3-4% dividend yields versus 1% of the s&p 500. investors are kind of giving up on overseas stocks which could mean that if you're a investor that next year maybe a good year for them. >> if you want to go overseas

what would you buy? >> you can buy a group of etf bike the iefa. you can do for emerging markets, iemg, and one thing that could be a help to investors in 2,025 year is the dollar may be peaking. its been very strong this year and that could go from being a headwind to a tailwind for american investors overseas, and in 2025. >> that's a great point. one of the few years overseas stocks did do better as the dollar was falling thanks andrew. we've got a shorter holiday shopping season this year, which means the retail rush is on. how are retailers and consumers handling the crunch and what trend should investors be watching as we head into the new year? telsey advisor group ce

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we can talk about our struggles and the things that we did overseas and not everybody can do that. adam! how's it going, brother? we live pretty close to each other. so he's always coming over. when i go to jack's house, we watch a lot of football, hang out. we go outside the friendship has kind of grown into a family i was overseas on a deployment. i got separated from my marines and i got hit in the neck, and it broke my neck and paralyzed me. 14 years ago, i was on a training mission. did a military freefall, and i had some faulty equipment. i hit the ground. going, 30 to 40 knots and was instantly paralyzed. i met jack fanning when he invited us to park city, utah, through his foundation. i was able to actually get on the mountain and ski with my family,

i can't put into words what that meant. i got paid in the military to do crazy fun stuff. and after my accident, i'm still that same guy. and when i was able to jump out of a perfectly good, helicopter, at 10,000 feet, i did it. i was talking to some vets last week amazing how we have these houses where they can come over because they■re in chairs too. carpet and wheelchairs don't mix very well. tunnel to towers, they got rid of all that. they redid my whole bathroom. that's probably the favorite part of my house. i thought they were just going to do the upgrades. but the surprise to me was they paid off the entire mortgage. when they told me they're going to pay off my mortgage, i cried. please contribute $11 a month by visiting t2t.org now >> united states consumers flexing their spending power

october retail sales up 2.8% year-over-year marking the fastest annual growth since july. the numbers suggesting economic resilience heading into the critical holiday season, however, retail stocks reacting and where should investors look for a bargain? joining me now telsey advisory group ceo and chief research officer dana telsey. dana, thanks so much for coming by the studio. >> thank you for having me. >> you're the person we want to talk to right about now so let's start with your look at the overall holiday season. you say that the calendar is working against retailers but possibly in favor of shoppers? >> could be. we have five fewer days between thanksgiving and christmas this year, giving that thanksgiving is later this year than last year, which requires the retailers that have to sell a lot of goods very fast and it could be more deals and more promotions for the consumer. so we've already begun to see it. look how best buy had christmas in september. you look at amazon prime day, target, walmart in october. and there's a lot more to come in november and beyond. >> every year you share your

themes for that year. what are this year? >> it's about innovation and value. when you think about innovation things that people do not have in their closet or newness, whether it's closed toed shoe, ralph lauren and some of the new sweaters they are showing which led to a 10% increase in their average unit retail selling price last quarter or what's happening with ugg and hoka in terms of those shoes and as it gets colder that's what people want to wear certainly in ugg, and then other items look at coach and the mid-single-digit aur increas e that brooklyn handbag they have has been selling. >> so you mentioned cold. i have literally not put on a winter coat yet this year. i saw noah says it's 7 degrees on average colder. how is that affecting retailers? ralph lauren is selling sweaters? >> they have been selling sweaters. it has been an impact. we've heard about it as we've gone through back-to-school season. now getting a little bit cooler i think it's going to rain all

day in the northeast already and then hopefully it gets a little bit cooler and drives some of those colder outerwear sales. but also, remember, we talked about value. walmart, tjx, you're thinking about the off-prices and the discounters, and i think that's where you're still seeing traffic congregate. >> so possibility of tariffs in 2025? how are retailers thinking about that? >> it's a real hearing aids tariffs. it didn't help last time and it wouldn't this time either. diversifying sources is what's on the top of mind of retailers as they try to reduce exposure to china but if it means price increases to the consumer, that is a headwind and everyone's going to try to position themselves for more diversified sourcing, some of them will bring in extra goods a little bit earlier, but if it means price increases, you have to watch the wage growth in what's happening with labor with that end consumer. >> have you seen a lot of the companies buying quickly ahead of the possible tariffs or not yet? >> not yet. it's still too early. most of the companies are going

through the christmas season with pretty lien inventories. they would like to maintain their margins if at all possible, before thinking about what the 2025 headwinds would cause them to do. >> all right i want to get your advice for the investor and the shopper. if you're an investor looking for the best bargains what stocks do you like and shopper looking for cheap stuff on sale where do you go? >> if an investor what's working? it is the off price, tjx for example, definitely one. look at brands i think about ralph lauren and deckers and i also look at an abercrombie & fitch which continues to expand their methodology driving increases. >> that stocks done so well. >> and now there continues to be room on hollister, continues to be room on the store productivity of abercrombie and watch international. >> watch international, is that part of abercrombie? >> yes it is. it's going to grow. they are continuing to expand overseas and gain more awareness and customer traffic. >> meanwhile for the shopper, would do you think will be forced to do the best discounts?

>> if you're wanting discounts, walmart obviously, not they discount but they are the best prices, it is the off pricers like tjx, and when you want to think of others, you will watch some of those department stores also, for some of the deals that nordstrom anniversary sale is always top of mind. >> people think nordstrom they don't think sale so it's good advice? >> anniversary sale coming up. >> walmart for the shopper. do you like walmart for the investor? >> i like it for both and the reason why. i think this is a new, younger modern walmart. look at the revenue growth from other categories they have gotten in terms of advertising and look at the gains they have seen even from their what their terms is of their higher end consumers is where the dwaynes ait's comingfrom. >> you've got to think that those physical stores are a help, not a hurt. >> dana telsey, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up we've got three big moves, you should make ahead of 2025 to get your financial house in order. don't go away.

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>> 2025 is right around the corner, and as you prepare your home for the holidays it's a good time to get your financial house in order. our panel is here to tell you what you can do to get a head start on the new year. so, elizabeth, humans are really bad at accepting near-term pain for long-term gain, but you've got an idea. a lot of financial experts are saying that now is the time to take a little tax pain for a happy retirement. >> that's true, jack. the reward will be a big pot of tax free money at retirement who doesn't want that because you've got to remember the money in your traditional tax deferred retirement account is not entirely yours, right? some of that belongs to the government because when you retire you'll have to take out that money you'll owe income taxes on it. so this could become a problem especially if we get bigger

account balances say a million dollars. you might think oh, you know, my accounts doing well i'll let it ride starting at # 73 you'll he to withdrawal money from your accounts and pay income taxes whether you want to or not. the government, uncle sam, is this way of finally taking his cutoff your retirement savings, right? so not only these rmd's if they are big could push you into a higher tax bracket but also a higher-income for medicare premiums, higher-income seniors pay more for medicare parts b & d. their premiums to the tune of three times more for the people in the top income bracket compared to the lowest income bracket, so that's something you want to avoid paying if possible. >> you do that by converting your 401 (k) is part of it into a roth so that you pay the taxes now to avoid those in the future. >> exactly so convert part or all to a roth, take the tax hit now and enjoy the benefits for the rest of your life. >> i'm not such a big fan of

it. i hate paying taxes sooner. i'd rather defer and pay later and let the money buildup tax-free. >> fair enough. a lot of people feel that way and true if you have a more modest balance say 500,000 or below, the tax benefits of a roth conversion aren't quite as clear cut because your rmd will be less. >> if you do have a big part of money, your heirs will thank you. and believe me when i say this on april 15 it doesn't feel this way but economists say we're in a low tax environment right now and they predict long-term to make it higher. >> it's true everyone says taxes are on sale right now, rates are not going to fall down so you'll have to pay taxes at some point, something to be said but get them out of the way. >> no one will believe that. ben, speaking of taxes any viewers thinking of pulling the trigger on an electric car purchase or solar panels should think about doing that sooner rather than later? >> that's right. probably president trump has basically said he's going to try to get rid of those tax credits for buying an ev and the tax

break you get for putting solar panels on your house and if you want these things, the $7,500 tax credit on the ev, go buy an ev now. there's a very good chance that that will be repealed. the republicans control the senate and it only takes a majority vote to get it done, so that's the thing. you want an ev do it now. >> solar stocks have taken a hit in anticipation of the end of that credit. have they fallen so far that they are a good buy or would you stay away? >> i think i'd stay away. the retail solar players have had problems already long before trump came along. they just aren't making money. they keep running into trouble. and even the ones making like first solar that makes panels for utilities, they aren't doing great. they are up 6.9% this year when the s&p 500 is up 25% so it's okay but i think this is not the moment. >> andrew, we talked about the heck of a run for the s&p 500. it all looks rosey but that's

the time when investors should be double checking their assumptions. for those investors who want to take a few chips off the table what would you tell them? >> i think treasuries are pretty good buy right now, and for people with big gains in stocks and the s&p is up about 25% this year, treasury yields many are higher this year so actually getting higher yield now and at the start of the year. i think treasuries are a pretty good value, and getting yields between 4-4.5%. inflation is running 2.5-3% so decent yield above inflation and tax benefits because it's interest is state and local tax exempt, and i think there are better value to have in corporate bonds and junk bonds where the yield gap versus treasuries is historically very tight. >> tight spreads. so, here is the thing. if you talk to a trump supporter they say his agenda will lead to more growth. if you talk to a critic they say tariffs lead to inflation. the only thing they agree on is both of those could send treasury yields higher. is that something people have to worry about? >> it's definitely a risk to have big deficits indefinitely

and higher inflation but some of it is captured now in the treasury markets and the markets are discounting mechanisms, and so i wouldn't be, i mean it's a risk i wouldn't be too concerned about it and if you look for treasuries, one of the better ways to play is through etf's like the tlt, which is 20 year treasuries, ief, which is 7-10 year treasuries and if you really risk averse like warren buffett an want to hold treasury bills you can buy etf's like bil. >> and tips are the way to go? >> yeah, tips are a pretty good value relative to regular treasuries and you could buy like tip or stip, and they are attractive given where breakevens are right now. >> thanks, appreciate it. up next, andrew, ben, and elizabeth name three over priced stocks to dump and tell us what (fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) you can't be that different. (fisher investments) we are. we have a team of specialists not only in investing, but also in financial and estate planning and more.

(other money manager) your clients rely on you for all that? (fisher investments) yes. and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first. (other money manager) but you still sell commission- based products, right? (fisher investments) no. we have a simple management fee structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money manager) huh, we're more different than i thought! (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

>> one thing that investors always don't understand is that it's not necessarily the best companies that have the best stocks. it's the companies whose performance beats expectations by the most. so you guys have found three examples of this. ben, you've got an interesting play here. >> yeah, i mean i'm looking at costco and target. this is going to sound crazy. costco is wonderful. it's consistent, both in terms of its earnings and sales, and in the stock performance. it just keeps going up. the problem is because its gone up so much it trades at 51 times earnings, which is a higher pe than meta and other tech stocks. then you have target which blew up after reporting earnings earlier this month and the problem there is it's losing market share, really needs to invest in getting people to come back in, but it trades for only 12 times so if you have a strong stomach the thing to do is to avoid costco and maybe take a look at target. >> interesting play.

>> i'm looking at one of the hottest technology stocks this year and i would avoid palantir. it's more than tripled this year and become a cult stock. it's probably one of the richest software companies in the world based on valuation metrics. for about 40 times next year sales, and for well more than 100 times earnings, a lot of growth and good news, and now around 60. i think alphabet which is a parent of google looks good around 20 times next year's earnings, estimates are relatively restrained and you have the waymo self-driving car business which is a hidden gem inside the company worth a few hundred billion dollars in a few years. >> anti-trust concerns are weighing on that stock and yet, as an owner, who cares right? youtube and chrome and google separately. >> i think trump may ease up a little bit on that. >> good point. elizabeth, you may have the most contrarian pick of the group. >> it is, yeah, i'm looking at nvidia and intel. so, as we all know nvidia is a

blockbuster stock in recent years and the mag-1 if we had to pick one and its had several consecutive quarters of triple digit growth but the question is how much can it continue to defy gravity so i'm looking at intel which is relatively cheap based on book value and it could benefit from a homegrown chip push and there's also been some take over speculation. >> that's an interesting pick, the intel fabs are cropping up in ohio corn fields. thanks guys. to read more check out this weeks edition at barrons.com. follow us on x, on facebook and instagram for the latest updates. enjoy the football, family and leftovers and that's all for us we'll see you next week on barrons roundtable. will: that's going to do it for us today -- rachel: go to church. will: there you go. rachel: merry christmas, everybody. ♪ >> welcome to to sunday mornin