cap stocks and emerging markets really trailing with a strong dollar. that could potentially reverse if we start to see lower interest rates after, say, january. now, of course the fed is only penciling in two rate cuts for 2025. hopeful that as things perhaps start to slow down from growth perspective, but also inflation perspective, we could see more rate cuts later in the year. cheryl: well, i mean, the other side of the coin, we had a guest earlier say the concern could be rate hikes if we see the labor market tighten up and what if inflation ticks up higher. we shall see. thank you for being here. we appreciate it. >> thank you, cheryl. cheryl: that is it for me, i'm going to send it to my good friend and neighbor, lauren simonetti. >> merry christmas. happy new year. i haven't seen you in a while. no sign of kris kringle as the

santa claus rally melts away. i'm lauren simonetti in for liz claman. stocks sinking, this is almost it, folks. the major averages are down pretty sharply but off their lows, the dow is down 272 points, the broader market is down 39. the nasdaq down 129. we'll dig into all the action on wall street in a moment. first, we start with the nation in mourning after sunday's death of the longest living president in american history. president jimmy carter died yesterday at his home in plais georgia. he was 100 years old. president joe biden said a national day of mourning for january 9th, 2025, the new york stock exchange and the nasdaq paused for a moment of silence this morning before trading began. carter served one term in the white house after being elected as the 39th president in 1976.

the peanut farmer, navy officer, former governor of georgia, nobel peace prize winner and life long democrat took office in the middle of the cold war after defeating gerald ford. he brokered a middle east peace deal in camp david in 1978. his time in office was marked by double digit inflation, the 1979 oil shock that caused gas shortages and the iranian hostage crisis. here to help us look back on the life and the legacy of president jimmy carter in a fox business exclusive is james mcintire who served as the director of the office of management and budget during the carter administration. james, welcome. >> thank you, lauren. >> as i listed all of the wonderful things about president jimmy car t carter, he really we renaissance man. we didn't write that in addition to being a diplomat, he wrote children's books, he was a poet, he was a woodworker, what a man.

>> he loved music of all kinds. >> add that. >> he was not just a rock and roll president. he loved rock and roll music. i worked for jimmy carter for four years in georgia. i worked for him for two years as the revenue commissioner and two years as the director of the office of planning and budget. which was a key component of the governor's office. and then i came to washington and worked for him as the -- first of all, the deputy director of the office of management of the budget but after burt lance resigned i became the director and was the director for the rest of the time so i've known jimmy carter pretty well for a number of years and i can say that he was a very dedicated person. he had goals in mind and he was very ambitious and tried to tackle a number of problems that

he saw facing the nation and he did -- i thought he did a good job and i thought he accomplished a lot more than some people want to give him credit for. >> he had said about 10 years ago he was doing an interview and he was reflecting on his time as president and he said he should have taken military action in iran when they stormed the u.s. embassy and took american hostages and held them for 444 days. he said that that cost him re-election. would you agree? >> well, i think it was a major influence over his loss. and i think the other thing is when he decided not to -- the rose garden strategy, which he decided to not get out and campaign until the hostages were released. i think that together, that really did have a significant

impact on his ability to be reelected. no one knows because we don't know what would have happened had there been a military action but it certainly was an important -- i think a very important reason that he was not reelected. >> one of his greatest accomplishments was the camp david accord, the peace deal between israel and egypt which has endured to this day. looking at the chaos in the middle east, what have we learned from that deal struck back in 1978 that's still endorsed? >> well, i think that when you have a deal that people -- the participants in the deal feel is fair to both sides and address a continuing series of wars as have been going on between egypt and israel, that that makes for

a long-lasting peace treaty and i think that's what happened here. i had to go over to israel and egypt and assess the types of things that the united states was going to provide funding for and i can tell you that it was a relief to many to see this peace treaty adopted by the participants. >> one of the other issues that he dealt with during his presidency that we are talking about now is the issue of the panama canal. president carter gave control of the canal to panama and now president-elect donald trump may want to reclaim it. he says panama is perhaps ripping the united states off. would you take that on? >> you know, i would leave it alone. i think it served our country well. if there's issues about the

charges that are being levied for our use of the canal, i would take that on maybe. but the fact is that that returning the canal to panama saved us a lot of trouble with other central and south american countries. i think it was the right thing to do. and if we've got problems with the way it's run, take those up with panama. i think it would be a very difficult thing to take the canal back and it could cause a lot of concern in congress and in the country to try do that at this time. >> what is your favorite memory of president carter, whether personal or professional? >> my favorite memory is working with him. he was always -- he was very focused on the problems or issues at hand and the reason i

enjoyed being with him for the eight years i was with him was that i could always count on him to look at my memos and to give me some feedback and he also was a person who tried to do the right thing. i can remember many occasions where we would give him a number of choices about how to deal with a public policy issue and there would be a lot of controversy about those choices and he would turn to me and say, you know, what is the right option? what is the best option for our country? and i always felt that was important and it made me feel that he was much more concerned about the country than himself or any particular group so that's my favorite memory is working with him and having him really focus on the issues that we presented to him and make

good decisions. >> a man of high morals, i called him a renaissance man at the top of the segment. james mcintire thank you for the time and for your stories and your memories. we will have more on president jimmy carter's lasting legacy, that's later in this broadcast. let's take a look at the stock market. dipping in fin trading with just, if you're counting, one hour and one day left of trade for 2024. the s&p 500 is down 41 points at 0.7%. the nasdaq has fallen by 140 points, also 0.7% and the dow is down by 284 points. i do want to point out that the swing for the dow today has been about 900 points and the swing for the nasdaq from high to low about 500 so there's lots of volatility as we get set to ring the new year. boeing is at the bottom of the dow today. you can see it's down just about 2% now at 177 after its 737-800

model was involved in a plane crash in south korea that killed 179 of the 181 people on board. boeing is a dow stock. the dow is on pace for the worst month since september of 2022. the s&p 500 has extended losses for the month of december. however, the nasdaq remains in the green for the month by 362 points. could the lack of a santa claus rally thus far dampen hopes for a positive 2025. for that we go to the floor show. we have ted weisberg and scott bower. nice to see you. scott, i'll kick off with you. we're year three of a bull market. do you think the bull is tired right now? >> i think we have problems right now. these couple of days here, very, very thin trade. if you do look historically, for the last 70 plus years, there's

been 11 bull markets that have lasted at least two years. in the third year of each and every one of those, we have seen a pullback of at least 5% and the following year we have seen an average gain of about 2%. so is that ominous? does that portray a really bleak picture? i don't think so. i really don't. 5% pullback, that would be a healthy thing for the market in my opinion. we get those pullbacks most years anyway. so i don't concern myself so much about that. what i do concern myself about is, a, still geopolitical risk and b, where are we? where is the economy? what is the fed going to do? because that to me is the thing that could really derail the markets. but i am still overall pretty optimistic going into 2025. >> teddy, how do you feel about the set-up for 2025? >> we have a day and an hour.

>> who is counting? >> yeah. as scott pointed out, december's always an interesting month, generally speaking. if this year ended at the end of november, we all would have had a pretty good year. >> we would have. >> unfortunately, we had to put in december and that's become problematic. i think to die's action is really -- today's action is really an interest rate problem. anything that looks like interest rates aren't going to go lower is a problem for the market. the market is just focused on the possibility of lower rates. whether they're going to come or not, that remains to be seen. i suspect the economy's doing a lot better than a lot of folks think and so that's going to be a problem for the fed going forward. >> so go ahead. >> no, but on the other hand, today's selloff was particularly interesting for those t -- i've been doing this for about 50 years. i wait for the last two or three days of the year every year to go shopping. i basically go to a rummage

sale. i look through all the lumps of coal and i try to find a few diamonds and every year you do find a few diamonds and so i thought today's selloff was actually not disturbing but was a terrific buying opportunity for my shopping list. >> and that buying opportunity suggests to me that you might be optimistic for the new year. are you more concerned about the strength of the labor market, that perhaps weakening, weakening more than it might seem or are you more concerned about inflation with potential tariffs coming in under a trump presidency that could stoke inflation again? labor march coat or in-- labor market or inflation. >> i'm definitely more concerned about the inflation side of things because in reality in the labor market and i don't think we've seen it necessarily yet in the monthly reports but the labor market to me is weakening. we are seeing those continuing claims on a weekly basis start to get elevated so i do think the labor market is weakening,

not where the fed wants it yet but i do think it is but there is a question mark about is inflation going to start ticking back up again. we kind of plateaued here and then with all of the concern about the tariffs that might possibly be coming in here, that's going to be an issue and as teddy just said here, he said he thinks the economy is doing much better than people think and i wholeheartedly agree with him. that's not all such a 3 bad thig that our economy is working well. what that does do is plays into the fed in terms of not just perhaps lowering rates but maybe even raising them next year. that is going to be the issue for 2025. but all in all, i'm still pretty optimistic. >> do you think the fed will raise rates in 2025, quickly. >> i don't think they will in the first six months but if the data comes in and it tones be really strong, the latter half of the year we could see it pop up. >> teddy, what do you think on potentially raising next year. >> i think the big issue for

the fed is a strong u.s. economy. you know, i don't know who is running the train but if the economy remains strong and we have a whole new president and a whole new administration coming in, rooting for a weak economy to benefit the interest rate cycle is counterintuitive. why anybody would root for a weak economy so we can lower rates to me is ridiculous so i think rates are fine where they are and you know what, if the economy remains strong and inflation kind of rears its ugly head again, there's a possibility rates won't stay where they are, they could tick higher which at least for the moment would be a big negative for the markets. >> teddy, scott, happy new year. >> same to you. >> we have a day and liss than an hour left. a top shareholder in the bag and backpack company vera bradley has an idea that it says can return the iconic brand to the winning ways, that's got the stock popping on this down day. we'll tell you what the idea is in just a moment.

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lauren: let's get to some breaking news. fannie mae and freddie mac are soaring today, freddie mac is up about 20% after bill ackman posted on x that he is hopeful the new trump administration will remove the mortgage lenders from conservatorshop. he said there's a credible path for removal from conservatorship in the relative short-term. during trump's first term secretary my mnuchin took steps

towards this but they ran out of time. the companies could repay their loans. take a look at micro strategy, it's falling almost 4% today. the company disclosed it sold 492,000 common stock shares to fund the purchase of more bitcoin. the software company's common stock sales raised $209 million to buy 2,138 more bitcoin at an average price of under $100,000. that was during christmas week. micro strategy if you're counting now holds more than 446,000 bitcoin. it is the biggest corporate holder. the stock's at 3 317 a share. apple tv plus will be free this weekend if you're interested. apple is giving consumers a chance to start the new year off by binge watching a popular show, severance, before it makes

its highly anticipated season two return on january 17th. apple tv posting this. that streaming will be free only on january 4th and 5th and taking a look now, shares of apple are down just about 1% at 253 at this hour. vera bradley powering higher to the tune of 6 and two thirds percent after its largest shareholder urged the company to consider a sale. in a letter to the board, fund one investment which owns 10% of vera bradley shares says they should consider strategic alternatives like going public or selling to a company. they say they are suffering from long-term value destruction, poor operational performance and a failed brand revamp as well as increased competition. ouch. the stock down just about 50% so far this year. and vacas shares at 52 week

high. the international vacation rental management company accepted a buyout offer from property management firm casago at $5.02 per share, more than the share price after the almost 30% gain. the deal valued at $128.6 million. it is expected to close in the second quarter of next year where vacasa will delist from the nasdaq and officially become a private company. forget the high rise office space, what does the commercial real estate marketk like for owners of the regular strip mall and standalone small businesses across the country? the man with his finger on the pulse of the market is kyle matthews, he shares his views next in a fox business exclusive. we're coming right back. ♪ morikawa on 18. he is really boxed in here. not a good spot. off the comcast business van. into the vending area.

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call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. lauren: the commercial real estate cre had a rocky 2024 but according to economists at wells fargo, siri looks promising in 2025. they released a report saying lower taxes, a friendlier business environment should accelerate economic activity in the new year. wells fargo said commercial activity differs bthey're looking the strongest while activity in san francisco, los angeles and washington still remains weak. joining me now is in a fox business exclusive is matthews

real estate investment services founder, ceo and chairman, kyle matthews. kyle, your company has commercial real estate operations. not the big high rises but you're in 25 markets across the country so you have good visibility into the consumer, into the small business. how's it looking? >> i would say we're cautiously optimistic. if you had asked me that question about 100 days ago right before the fed started its rate cutting cycle i would have said very optimistic but obviously has short-term rates, fed fund rates have gone down about 100 basis points in the last 100 days, medium and long-term rates have done the opposite which is interesting because historically there's been correlation there but with medium and long-term rates increasing 1 100 basis points is dampened a little bit of enthusiasm heading into 2025. on average from a capital markets perspective and operations and perform moons of the small and medium size owner asset classes we're optimistic

that '25 will be a better year than '24 and '23. lauren: scott bower said in the second half of 2025 it's possible the fed hikes interest rates but in the meantime wells fargo sees lower taxes and a friendlier business environment as being good for the market in 2025. you would agree with that? >> i would agree with that. i think i don't want to get -- don't want to generalize here but there seems to be a culture change in terms of less regulation is a good thing. that hasn't always been the case for the last 30, 40 years. regulation at a state and local level with real estate creates challenges for developers to build new problem ' product and while developers want to build new product to realize revenue for themselves and investors, products in the multifamily sector, as supply increases, rents soften. whether multifamily rents or the price of homes. if we can get to an environment

that has less regulations which drive up the costs for this projects which can make the project too expensive to move forward with, that not only benefits the real estate industry, it benefits the average everyday american. lauren: is less regulation in a weird way, does that mean more lending. >> i would say more lending. we are expecting probably a 30, 40% increase in lending activity. first of all -- lauren: for next year, 30 to 40% for next year. nice. continue. >> there's roughly 600 billion of commercial real estate loans that are maturing in 2025. and so we call those forced capital market events. something needs to happen, either refinance or a sale and while rates on average are higher than where the loans were originally put on, there's been so much price appreciation, putting office aside, there's been price appreciation over the last five, seven and 10 years, depending on the length of loans that are maturing, most of them could be refinanced or the

assets sold so we expect to see an increase in lending and investment sales activity in next year when compared to '24 and '23. lauren: talk to me about office. i know that is a nuanced industry. when you say office to me, i'm thinking strip mall, i'm thinking who is going back to the office three, four, five days a week. also, what sectors when you're thinking about that traditional strip mall are hot right now? >> well, strip malls are hot. retail is having its moments for the first time in let's call it 15 years, really since before the gfc, we're seeing material rent growth in the operations performance of these retail centers, multi-tenant retail, not regional malls, i see what you're showing there but strip malls, open air, lifestyle, spir yen shale is do -- multifamily s performing very well. there's markets to keep an eye on in the sun belt where we're seeing rent softening and

vacancy increase, from a supply standpoint. we think that will be worked through over the next 12 to 18 months. we're very happy, very satisfied in terms of the operations and performance of the asset classes, if i may put office to the side. i think enough has been said about office candidly. but again, the capital markets is more of the question and what we're going to keep our eyes on as we head into next year. lauren: thanks for clarifying the difference between an open air shopping experience and the traditional shopping mall. i look at my own shopping especially over christmas, i'm more inclined to go to the one level place where i can just see the stores i want to go to instead of being lost in a mall. kyle matthews -- >> yeah, thank you so much. lauren: finish your thought. >> i was going to say i think what we learned in covid is we're social creatures and we want to go outside, we want to be around people and we want the experience on the retail and shopping center side. while enclosed regional malls have seem to have seen the end

of their days, retail on average is doing fantastic. retail, industrial, hospitality, most markets, multifamily, the performance of commercial real estate in terms of how they operate is fantastic. office seems to dominate the headlines. that's often what's talked about. the performance of asset classes is great. ideally we could get softening in medium and long-term rates and we're off to the races. lauren: happy new year, sir. >> you too. lauren: th in th the war in e east is showing no signs of easing and hamas holds dozens of hostages. the former spokesman of the israeli defense force is here to give us the updated threat analysis and the man who brought some sort of peace to the middle east being remembered around the world today. we'll have the latest on how the nation will mourn the passing of the 39th president, jimmy carter, who was 100 years old. that's straight ahead on the claclaman countdown.

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lauren: u.s. stock markets will be closed on january ninth to honor the passing of president jimmy carter, the new york stock exchange, nasdaq and cvoe making the announcement today after the federal government marked the day as a national day of mourning. all executive departments and agencies will also be closed, complete funeral plans for carter are in the works but there will be services in both plains, georgia, where the former president was born and lived, as well as washington, d.c. jonathan siri has the latest on the next steps for funeral preparations for the nation's 39th president. jonathan. >> reporter: also add one more city to the list of places where there will be memorial ceremonies going on. atlanta which is home to mr. carter's nonprofit, the carter center. the former president's death has touched people on both sides of the political aisle even those who did not always agree with

him politically, praised his deeply held christian faith that drove his humanitarian initiatives that extended past his years in the white house. >> his work with habitat for humanity, the work the carter center has done has been very significant and whereas he may have had a tough presidency, i think that -- i think history will treat him well. >> reporter: on his truth social platform president-elect trump writes about mr. carter, while i strongly disagreed with him philosophically and politically i realize he truly loved and respected our country and all that it stands for. he worked hard to make america a better place and for that i give him my highest respect. in tribute to the memory of his predecessor, president biden ordered flags to fly at half staff in federal institutions for a period of 30 days and has designated january 9, 2025 as a national day of mourning. the former president's legacy lives on in the carter center. that international nonprofit

organization that he created in partnership with emory university to helper rad kate disease, promote fair elections and negotiate peace. mr. carter who was 100 years old when he died will be buried next to his beloved wife of 77 year, he'll be buried on the family plot under a willow tree outside the couple's long time residence. lauren. lauren: 77 years of marriage. jonathan, thank you very much. and one of former president carter's biggest accomplishments was brokering the camp david agreement of 1978, establishing framework for peace between egypt and israel. and while it endured the middle east is a powder keg. over the weekend, israeli forces raid it a hospital in northern gaza. they claim 240 terror suspects were arrested. the attack closed the last major

functioning health facility in northern gaza. joining me now on a first on fox business is former idf spokesperson, jonathan kanrikus. the world health organization is condemning the attack on the hospital. they're calling for a cease fire in gaza. is that possible? will hamas ever release the hostages in order to get that perspective and possible cease fire? >> well, hello, thank you for having me and best wishes and pleasure to be on here for the first time. as i'm sure our viewers know, to call that locality a hospital is a bit of a misnomer. yes, the outside looks like a hospital and it says hospital on the building. but inside it was another operation that was run by hamas where hamas and other terrorists were using the facilities of the hospital in order to conduct military terrorist activity

against israel. now, israel warned and indicated numerous times ahead of the strike that hamas was using the facilities and that israel was going to take action against hamas because hamas was leading operations from there. and israel made sure that there were no civilians killed or wounded and made sure to evacuate patients from that locality including medical personnel. what israeli special forces found when they went in was as you said, about 250 terrorists, many of them masquerading as hospital workers and even as patients, some of them hiding in ambulances and what israeli troops did was take all of them, arrest them and interrogate them and there has already been precious intelligence extracted from these terrorists that is aiding israeli operations in the search for hostages and in the

14 months war in order to finally defeat hamas. lauren: and in gaza, jonathan, israel believes 64 of those hostages are still alive and we sure hope they are. is the window closing for president biden to bring them home and do you think donald trump can and will? >> yes, it's more than 450 days that over 100 israelis live and dead and many of them americans by the way were taken by hamas and have been held in brutal terrorizing captivity since. i think every day that goes by makes the chances for a swift return of israelis smaller. every day that goes by we know that hostages are tortured. they are starved on purpose. and they are hidden under ground and they are kept in some of the most cruel conditions and that is note imagining it.

that is based on testimonies that israeli hostages provided to medical staff when they were rescued the first time and there's an israeli government report from the ministry of health that tells in detail really horrible detail of sexual abuse of terrorizing, of torture, of humiliation, of starvation and many other forms of cruelty that the israeli and american hostages have undergone. sadly, i do not see enough american or israeli action on the ground. i do not see pressure on hamas or its supporters, qatar, turkey and egypt, in order to force them to hand over thesis raily and american hostages an i think that is very, very regrettable and i fear for their well-being. lauren: it's tragic and we've been centering this conversation on gaza and hamas but israel is also facing the threat from the iranian backed houthis coming

from thousands of miles away in yemen and the new york times write and i quote, israel is challenged by a lack of precise intelligence on the whereabouts of the group's leaders and weapons. is that true with your experience, israel, with regard to the houthis and yep yemen ans ability to fight them. >> you won't hear this from me often but i think the new york times has a point and, yes, the idf has excellent intel over hezbollah in lebanon and over hamas in gaza and the iranians and activities in syria but true, israel has not been focusing collection efforts on the houthis in yemen because they are so far away. they're about 1,200 miles away and up until the seventh of october, there was no issue between them and israel even though they are hostile towards israel, there was no open confrontation and as such since israel is a small country with limited resources, we focused those on other very vivid

threats to israeli civilians, hezbollah, hamas, islamic jihad, palestinians and others and yes, we are now scrambling in order to collect more intelligence and to follow the whereabouts of houthi leaders and i can assure you that that is in the works and i think we will see the results of those israeli intelligence collection efforts not in the distant future and if i were a houthi leader, i would take precautionary measures because they have definitely acted in violation of international agreements. they have been attacking israel for 14 months. they have been terrorizing israeli civilians by firing ballistic missiles at israel. what israel is doing is defending themselves and hopefully they'll have the active support of an international coalition led by the u.s. with british participation. ththis will serve american purposes, global shipping purposes, in the area of the red

sea and arabian sea, with terror anance that the iranian proxy is doing and i don't think it will take too much time before that happens. lauren: jonathan, thank you for the perspective. >> thank you. lauren: well, the new year's ball rising to the top of times square today but after it drops at midnight tomorrow, it's always so beautiful, will stocks sparkle like that ball in 2025? our countdown closer has a few picks. we'll share them. team trump making their opinions clear to the supreme court about what should happen to tiktok. we'll have a live report from the white house on the president-elect's request ahead of a potential ban on this very popular social media app. we're coming right back.

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lauren: as you can see right there, the clock is ticking down to tiktok's day in court. the supreme court expected to hear oral arguments on the app's potential ban in the u.s. in 10 days but now president-elect donald trump is asking the justices hold off on implementing the law while he works on a potential resolution. fox business grady trimble joins me live from the white house with more on tiktok's legal

struggles. where does it go from here? grady? reporter: well basically until january 19 to sell, lauren, and also of course we'll hear those oral argu before that but it is extremely unlikely that the company is going to find a buyer in the next 20 or so days. the timing is also interesting because january 19 is one-day before president-elect trump is inaugurated so what he's asking the supreme court to do is place a pause on that possible ban, to give him time to get into the white house and work on a solution to those national security secures related to tiktok' chinese parent company bytedance. here is what an attorney for president-elect trump writes to the supreme court. president trump alone possesses the deal-making expertise, the electoral mandate and the political will to negotiate a resolution to save the platform while addressing the national security concerns expressed by the government,

concerns which president trump himself has acknowledged. tiktok ceo is fighting to save the app. he's one of the many tech leaders who has met with president-elect trump since he won the election. he was down at mar-a-lago a few weeks ago and back in 2020 you remember that then-president trump wa to china but then oe used to app to reach young voters and promised to save the social media platform. >> we'll take a look at tiktok. i have a warm spot in my heart for tiktok because i won youth by 34 points and there are those that say tiktok has something to do with that. reporter: so this petition by trump's attorney was filed before those january 10 oral arguments to sort of make the case on behalf of the president-elect. on that day in court we ex president-elect the justice

department to continue to make the case its been making throughout this whole process as it defends the law saying that it is constitutional and it's necessary because of the national security concerns because tiktok throughout this legal fight maintained that the divest or ban law is a threat and a front on the free speech rights of 170 million americans who use this app, so we'll see what happens on that day and if president-elect trump's chiming in has any impact on the court. lauren: and many of them young people who voted for trump. i know, national security versus free speech, grady trimble you'll keep us posted. thank you so much happy new year. >> you too. lauren: the election result and trump's upcoming inauguration have many people asking the question, did everything just change? joining me now with her take, the co-ceo and senior portfolio manager at essex investment

management. nancy good to see you. did everything just change? >> we think it did change. i mean, we certainly think that although the economy was already in a good position and the fed was already lowering interest rates that the prospect of a government that is much more friendly to business where regulations will be caught and animal spirits are clearly rising, set the stage for what could be both an unusually strong earnings year and therefore, an unusually strong results year across many market segments. lauren: nancy, game it out for us. which sectors do you see doing the best under the incoming president? >> so we are very very bullish on the industrial sector broadly. it's a big sector of the economy. it's a direct beneficiary of many of the areas that everybody is very excited about. think about the power grid. we're going to need it both for powering all of the electrical devices and

the electrification of our world as well as for the data centers we need for a.i. think about rebuilding of roads and bridges. rebuilding our transportation infrastructure. building those transmission pipelines and those lng pipelines so there's a lot of work that's being done already in infrastructure with more to come. we also like the back door, the beneficiaries of the investment that's already been made in a.i. as that a.i. investment moves to the next level. lauren: let's talk about that. 2024 to me was the year of artificial intelligence. is a.i. the story of 2025 and if so, what are your picks? how do you play it? >> so absolutely. a.i. is a multiyear phenomenon that is going to change the world of work, as well as many of our world's in general. as you think about incorporating machine learning, big data, a.i., robotics, and everything we do, this is not just a one

year phenomenon. it's not just a building out of the data centers. where we want to focus on those companies that take that power that's being generated by things like chatgpt, and open a.i. and all these other systems and learn how to use it in order to drive productivity and improve people's lives, so we're looking -- lauren: aca, you like pega systems and amba, and avpt, we're showing them on the screen. nancy prial, so good to see you. thank you for the advice for the new year, as you can see the dow is still down well over 400 points. >> [closing bell ringing] lauren: off the lows of the session closing down for the second day in a row. that'll do it for the "clayman countdown." here is kudlow. david: hello folks and welcome to a special edition of custody